Skunk On The Table - Disaffiliation

Bishop Sue throws the Skunk On The Table and talks about disaffiliation in Virginia. Skunk on the Table is a video, podcast and article series focused on sharing simply and clearly topics of interest to the conference and denomination.
Timecodes to find what you're looking for!
0:00 What the Church should be
3:41 Who is disaffiliation for?
5:18 Traditionalists in the UMC
7:01 LGBTQ inclusion
8:58 Churches contemplating disaffiliation
11:51 Trust clause
13:47 Apportionments and the Annual Conference
17:30 What should be our Church focus
20:00 Be Boldly UMC
24:30: Agree to Disagree
26:27 2024 and going forward

[@cabuster]

The issue has been, and remains, is that it's the UMC Bishops and ministers who are not maintaining their vows to uphold the UMC (and it's Discipline).

[@hammerjammer1]

YES!!! Not enough being said about this. The blame is being put on traditional churches as if they are unwelcoming and nothing could be further from the truth.

[@janesharpe4663]

Thank you, Bishop Sue. I can only say amen and amen! I have always loved the "Big Tent" theology of the UMC. This current situation is heartbreaking, but our God is a God of the imposible and He will win in the end!

[@jamesedwards.1069]

Jesus did not preach a big tent theology. Jesus specifically taught that the road to life is narrow and the gate is small and few find it, whilst the road to death is wide and the gate is huge and most will go that way. Matthew 7: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. 28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: 29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

[@needlesharp_diamondstrong8465]

Well said! I couldn't agree more!

[@richarvel4008]

People do not desire to leave the UMC, but they are finding that the UMC has left them. When the church models the world, the church becomes unnecessary. "Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken the love you had at first." Jesus remedy to the church (verse 5) consider (remember), repent and return. "If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place."

[@rodfry3977]

Your example using Wesley is not the same thing. If you want to create a movement then YOU move away from the UM church. I am not leaving the UM church...the UM church left me

[@mepoinc]

It's nice to know that she will "disrespect" and be strong against anyone who disaffiliates, but then in another breath she says she will respect all. What double speak! What about loving ALL? Apparently to her it is ALL unless you go against something SHE don't believe in! Such a hypocrite!

[@bevc]

that's what I heard. She does not represent everyone.

[@sylviafullerton7416]

So some want us to say our Mother/father not our Father ! Say Kindom, not Kingdom! I will leave the UMC because I will follow Christ, not the world. If I follow the world, the world will love me. I want to follow the teachings of Christ not the world. If you choose to sit on the fence just remember that Satan owns the fence.

[@hammerjammer1]

Yes. Do not be conformed to this world. BTW…powerful last sentence in your post.

[@jodypruitt9438]

I know many Christian’s are so thankful that she left the North Georgia UMC.

[@livin4dios]

It’s sad to see a supposed leader in the UMC spreading outright lies about another denomination.

[@jamesvanwagoner8572]

Bishop Sue is more interested in serving the world, rather then serving God through his word.

[@meredithswinford4981]

By serving the world, we ARE serving God.

[@jamesvanwagoner8572]

@@meredithswinford4981 My dear neighbor, please believe and follow the all of words of God. It does us no good to twist those words. Peace be with you.

[@briancarloss4648]

She has done her damage to her old Ga. conference, now she is going to spread her evil and destroy Va. It is obvious she picks and chooses what parts of the bible she believes and obeys.

[@hunker1982]

Bishop Sue, those are wonderful words. I just wonder why you aren't being up front about your actions and plans. Didn't you just try to "pause" disaffiliation under 2553 in Virginia, just like you did in Georgia after lying to them for the last 7 months of 2022? Why act in the dark if you are righteous? Why use deceit to defraud people you disagree with, while calling yourself a centrist? You're a great lawyer.

[@brushylake4606]

I am former UMC. I attended Grace United Methodist in Wabasso, FL and Fisher United Methodist in Fisher, AR. I have NEVER heard such dishonesty and duplicitousness from a supposed church leader. On one hand, she is saying disaffiliation is a waste of time, but then says that if you believe no gay weddings should take place in any church or if you believe all churches should sanction gay weddings you should disaffiliate; well, which is it, should they disaffiliate or is it a waste of time? I like how she says it's "two thousand churches, three thousand max" that have disaffiliated...How about almost 6,000 now and more to come. If annual conferences weren't standing in the way of churches leaving (Jonesboro, Cabot, and Searcy in Arkansas, for example) it would probably be 7,500 or more. So, it's only 20-30% of an already moribund and declining denomination, everything's fine. She says if you believe no church should sanction gay weddings or ordain practicing homosexuals, then disaffiliation is for you. Fine, you know who says gay weddings and clergy shouldn't be a thing? JOHN FREAKING WESLEY says they shouldn't be a thing! You know what says gay weddings and clergy shouldn't be a thing? THE BOOK OF DISCIPLINE says they shouldn't be a thing! In her own words, JOHN FREAKING WESLEY shouldn't be a part of the UMC. In her own words, THE BOOK OF DISCIPLINE SHOULDN"T APPLY TO ALL UMC Churches...I mean, where does she get her ideas? The Bible says we shouldn't conform to the world. She says we should conform to the world. The Bible says I should be happy when the world hates me. She says we should be loved by the world. Which one should I believe and live by? Should I live by the unchanging, perfect Word of the Creator and Lord of the Universe or should I live by the ideas in the head of this woman of whom I've never heard? Can she make an argument without accusing other Christians of lying and "infiltrating"? Can she make an argument why the UMC should ignore the Book of Discipline? Can she make an argument why the UMC should allow ANY church or clergy to sanction gay weddings and clergy? From what she's saying, all I can figure is "we're doing some really good things, so ignore the nonbinary weddings." "We're giving the Ukrainians lots of money, so please overlook the practicing homosexual pastor in your church." To answer her last question, Jesus will hold HER accountable for both allowing gay weddings AND shredding the body. It isn't the disaffiliating churches that spat on the Bible. It isn't the disaffiliating churches that ignore the Book of Discipline. It isn't the disaffiliating churches that ignore the rules that supposedly govern the UMC. Please remember if you're the last one out, turn of the lights, lock the doors, and don't forget to write "ICHABOD" over the name of the church on the sign.

[@stevesafety6743]

I don't care how many Americans support same sex marriage what does God's word say?

[@dawnk.mccrumb4766]

God's word says love, Love, LOVE ALL People. Welcome all people. Widen and Lengthen the table of God. And, read the Bible with an open heart and an open concordance. ❤️

[@stevesafety6743]

@@dawnk.mccrumb4766 Matthew 19:4-6 4 He answered, “Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female, 5 and said, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.” Is it not love to help someone see their sin and prevent eternal damnation.

[@marym346]

@@dawnk.mccrumb4766 - "Love all" does not mean tolerate, promote, and accept all. The Bible is pretty clear on what the appropriate relationship between men and women is and what marriage is.

[@stevesafety6743]

@@dawnk.mccrumb4766 Just because I hate the sin does not mean I hate the sinner

[@brushylake4606]

So Bishop Sue says "we will not all be a denomination of drag queens." Ok, fine, but, as a parishioner, I am expected to accept the rulings of the annual conference and the appointments of the bishop. What happens when my bishop appoints a practicing homosexual to my church? I can't, in good conscience, accept the spiritual covering of one who doesn't qualify (according to God's Word) as an overseer in the Church. What happens when my heterosexual pastor consecrates or blesses a homosexual or nonbinary wedding ceremony? In my eyes (and according to the Bible and the Book of Discipline) that pastor is disqualified from leadership. Am I supposed to just keep attending a church that no longer follows Biblical teaching? Am I supposed to just grin and bear the fact that I am now in an apostate congregation according to the BOD? By the very fact that you ordain ONE "drag queen" (her words, not mine) in ANY annual conference, you are de facto, making that the rule of the greater church as that person can now be appointed anywhere. What if a practicing homosexual is appointed as a biship or DS? That person now has a position of authority in any UMC church. Or, can I just ignore the bishop and his husband if they visit my church when he's visiting family in his hometown? If my pastor refuses to acknowledge that visiting bishop, will there not be consequences?

[@bevc]

Could the new group she speaks of be a group that honors the Book of Discipline? I hope so. Perhaps motivating factor is The Bible. I do not think people are jumping on a bandwagon. I can not accept Bishop Sue representing my heart.

[@sylviafullerton7416]

Rev.18. I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book.

[@boooshes]

What I hear clearly is that if you agree with the current book of discipline and/or with the General Conference decision to adopt the Traditional Plan, you should disaffiliate. That is the definition of speaking against the UMC. Unfortunately, the Bishop is acting and judging as if the BOD has already been changed to not address the practice of same sex sexual activity. She betrays in her words that she is an activist that does not support, nor will she follow, the current BOD, which she vowed to uphold. Instead, she will follow jer own understanding and fight to modify the UMC to conform to her desires. In her own analysis, she recommends that if you cannot uphold the stance of the UMC, you should resign, not fight to change it; but this does not apply to herself.

[@notapilot1]

Institutions must practice incremental change, or else the change that eventually happens will be catastrophic, like an earthquake. The UMC has been held back from official change, which led to attempts at challenging the rules, creating that incremental change, by individual pastors, bishops, and congregations. Now we are at that earthquake. The change will happen suddenly, instead of gracefully. After this difficult period, I think the UMC will move forward swiftly, like a two-stage rocket that has left its first stage behind, allowing it an anergy it did not have before.

[@paulsmith9868]

You might be "tired" about a lot things. Many are tired of those who abide the sinful attitude and actions of the clergy with no consequence s and tell you us to be still and accept the fact that culture is the mantra of the UMC, not the Scriptures or the discipline.

[@48Ballen]

Either the Bible is the Word of God or not. I personally believe it is and it forms the foundation for Christianity. When you start picking and choosing part of his Word and disregarding other instructions, you have destroyed the very foundation of the church. I left the Methodist church many years ago because it decided it knew better than the Bible and started making up its own religion. At this point the UMC is dying and will be gone within 10 years because it has no foundation. We are all sinners but to sanctify sin will destroy the UMC.

[@joer5627]

So glad the congregation in which I attend left with 83% voting to leave. I believe nothing this woman says. Hey Sue it is way over 7,000 that left in spite of your best attempts to stop it.

[@kathyhinesley3420]

You're talking about churches that want to disaffiliate and reasons they should be able to do so. Yet, you stole that option from the entire North Georgia Conference as you walked out the door. Talk about not fair.

[@henryhernandez8760]

I challenge you to ask the Holy Spirit to show how you how you are misleading the church. God is not in approval of homosexuality

[@markh8740]

What does it say about a church that wants to conform to the world. Church congregations are to be in the world but not of it. Jesus said he will come to separate the goats from the sheep, and while the tares are amongst the wheat, they will be bundled up and burned at the harvest. The scariest passage is when Jesus says "Be gone from me I never knew you". The Bible is God's word. It is the choice of every person to follow God's word or not.

[@two-moonz2953]

Bishop Sue are you entertaining goats or feeding sheep? The love of God is the cross on calvary not all standing around holding hands singing Kumbaya!

[@MarieGFlowers]

It is a false comparison to equate the conflict between George Whitfield who believed in predestination and John Wesley who believed in free will, to that of those who believe in accepting the gay agenda in the church and those who refuse to accept the gay agenda in the church. You can go to heaven believing in predestination or not believing in predestination. But Paul says those who practice certain sins will not enter the Kingdom of God. Being righteous is an ESSENTIAL doctrine that can't be compromised. I Corinthians 6: 9-11 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." Jesus said at the end of the church age it would be just like it was in the days of Noah and the days of Lot. In Lot's time there were militant homosexuals who were forcing their will on Lot's angelic visitors. Even after being struck blind, the men of Sodom continued to try to break down Lot's door to get to the angels, who appeared as men, to have sex with them. Possibly the gays inside the church are not militant, but they definitely are in the world trying to force people to celebrate their lifestyle and forcing bakers to make them wedding cakes. Now the militant groups have come for the children in the schools.

[@marym346]

Sue Haupert-Johnson says, “Moving into the future, time has a way of resolving everything. And you know people will accuse me that I’m caving into culture, but I’m just stating a reality. [The] latest Gallup Poll [says] 72% of the people in the United States support same-sex marriage. So, we can stand on this as a huge issue, and stand on this and refuse to budge, but I think the sands of time are going. And whatever your opinion is, this is not something that is going to serve the church well 100 years from now. The church has always moved and shifted with the times.” What a lie!! The Christian church follows Christ by definition, not whatever the world dictates. And Christ said that marriage is between a man and a woman. Not one word about how marriage between two men or two women is acceptable. And since Jesus was know for saying things considered outrageous and flipping the ideas of man, I'm pretty sure he would have said something about how it was okay for same-sex relationships if he thought it was fine.

[@boooshes]

I don't recall Jesus ever taking a poll to see where the people were heading.

[@julianmoore4034]

Finally some good communication on disaffiliation. The problem our local congregation has experienced is a system-wide lack of communication. Our District Superintendent has refused to tell the laity anything about disaffiliation since the 2020 General Conference was postponed until 2024. I just reviewed the monthly District Newsletters from August 2022 until current and the transfer of Bishop Lewis and Bishop Haupert-Johnson has yet to be communicated. No one seems to know whether whether UMM is the acronym for United Methodist Men or United Men in Mission. My DS disbanded the district UMM when two districts were merged and provides local UMM with no information. The "national" UMM routinely uses both.

[@hammerjammer1]

YES! YES! YES! The same is happening in my conference and district. No conversation, no education as to what is going on. Some are afraid they will lose members. If churches are not transparent about the entire matter they will lose members.

[@jasonhutchens2065]

This didn't age well. A lot of breaking promises, timelines, and procedures after they realized many more churches wanted to leave than the few they expected. More than 7,000 now, I believe. I'm sure there would have been more leave if they hadn't starting making it almost impossible to leave before their cutoff date passed. It's also sad that the African congregants weren't fully represented at the Conference and able to vote according to their stances. Very sad when God's unchanging Word is totally ignored. Totally invalidates the whole UMC denomination and that's sad. This seems to remind me of how in the last days people in the faith will be swayed and deceived by the doctrine and teachings of demons. I grew up UMC; thankfully the Lord led me to Spirit filled church that believes and teaches the entirety of God's Word.

[@ahnnalisestevens-jennings3833]

Bishop Sue, I'm so thankful to God that you are here in Virginia.

[@jonathanpolinkas255]

If your ministry is not biblical, than it's not a Christian church, it's just a social club. Read the Bible Bisbop. You'll find that God condemns homosexuality, and has very strict qualifications for pastors, and elders. The UMC has strayed from Biblical standards. BTW, did you notice the Bishop never mentioned the Bible in this interview. Interesting.

[@florenceridderhof9309]

Thank you for such inciteful comments, from your heart which is filled with Christs love

[@48Ballen]

too bad these folks do not believe that the Bible is the Word of God. The UMC is dead because it has no foundation.

[@marym346]

😆😆😆

[@rodfry3977]

whyb are bishops so high and mighty that theyvcan ignore parts of the book of discipline. YOU took a covenant to uphold the book of disispline and you broke your covenant. Shame on you all

[@TerryPaquette]

Thank you Bishop Sue for reflecting the real Jesus of love. Love God and love your neighbor. Those who criticize your comments with their 'my way or the highway' commentary are the true reason folks aren't attending church. We all belong and we are all loved. Thank you Jesus!

[@stevesafety6743]

It is not my way or the highway it is God's way. Stay true to the Word. People like to have their favorite sins justified.

[@jarwillnc]

She misses the fact that we show the love of Jesus by sharing the truth according to the Holy Word.

[@bevc]

So your local church can abide by it's feelings but you keep sending funds to state level to support? Can you designate giving? Please define the Book of Discipline and what pages we should honor. Should we not have our guidelines and change them accordingly. What do you want me to ignore in the Book of Discipline? Is it your way or the highway? Essentials in book of Discipline need to be highlighted for people like me to understand. Why are you referencing Baptists? I am appalled by your stating things are not essential and that if we disagree you will not respect/support the person. I will pray for you. Are you more concerned about a Gallup Poll or a vote of the UMC Members.

[@77abcdef77]

I see. So, Bishop Sue, because John Wesley 'broke the rules' then you can just 'break the rules' too and disregard the Book of Discipline re: removing Jody Ray at Mt. Bethel in GA, all the while promoting and normalizing the ordination of your buddy Karen Oliveto in CA and others when the BOD says in no uncertain terms 'no ordaining practicing homosexuals.' You'll ruin the Virginia Conference, just like you did North Georgia, and the UMC will suffer for your wokeness.

[@JudyCraun]

What a blessing you are to our conference, Bishop Sue! I agree with every word you said and have been trying so hard to bring this message to my church for months now, as a District Lay Leader for Mission Rivers District. God has provided the right person at the tight time for our VA Conference. I just hope our churches will receive this message, fully absorb it and understand the wisdom behind each and every word. I sincerely hope everyone will listen to the whole message, there are great thoughts until the very end.

[@marym346]

😆😆😆😆

[@stevesafety6743]

Unfortunately she is more concerned with a Gallup poll than God’s word

[@1jessetaylor]

The only gospel she can bring is a false gospel. She may hear a voice but it's not a holy spirit.

[@NewDayNewAdventure77]

Propaganda that didn’t age well.

[@johnnywhite4341]

Bishop Sue I hope you read this and I hope you think about what you are reading. But it's clear to see that by the words of your mouth that you are spitting in the face of God and all that is Holy. You are choosing to walk a road that leads you straight to the gates of hell. But because you choose to go to hell does not give you the right to drag others into the flames of hell with you. For the sake of your soul, and the souls of others, please repent before it is too late.

[@dawnk.mccrumb4766]

Really? What did she say that makes you so angry that you feel the need to write such cruel statements? Follow Christ and be transformed for he glory of God.

[@stevesafety6743]

@@dawnk.mccrumb4766 Where's the cruelty? She is accepting sin and needs to repent.

[@johnnywhite4341]

@@dawnk.mccrumb4766 I'm not angry. But what God calls wickedness (as he declares in his holy scriptures) she has called good. So she should fear the anger of God. And if she doesn't repent she will someday suffer the wrath of God.

[@marym346]

@Dawn K. McCrumb - Yes, follow Christ. And He said that marriage is only honorable when it's between ONE MAN and ONE WOMAN.

[@ahnnalisestevens-jennings3833]

@@marym346 Christ never said that.