Pathfinder: WotR- Party Member Seelah 2H Build

[@jza61nick]

I'm with you 100% on sticking to rp elements with builds. That's not the popular opinion in the world of character builds but I get it.

[@okeson9301]

Yeah, that’s the hardest part of these games. RP your champs and you didn’t even try to min max and the game is harder than intended. Developers think about the challenge rating based on some min max choices.

[@jza61nick]

@@okeson9301 typically I build 4 custom characters and pick two companions to have more control over party composition. In the lower settings builds don't matter much but when you roll on an even playing field with the npcs it's matters a lot lol. I can't even imagine playing on unfair unless I was using cheat builds.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup but I am cool with having the unpopular opinion. LOL

[@Gfoot1]

Protection From Chaos can be cast by any character with Protection From Alignment on their spell list: Sosiel, Daeran, Camellia, Nenio and Woljif (I think that's all of them). Protection From Alignment gives you a choice menu for all 4 alignment types, similar to how Resistance From Energy lets you choose the energy type. Also, I like your lore-friendly builds and I agree with your thoughts on Monk and Vivisectionist dips.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Really?! I read that completely wrong then. I thought it was based on your alignment and protected you from the opposing alignment. Nice I will check that out.

[@JarredPearman]

It lasts 1 min per cast iirc.

[@ewenyap3018]

i really enjoy your builds, its informative and not made to just be min-maxed.. its made to be true to the personality and class of the character.. however.. there are companions where you still only have beta builds. you said at one point you wanted to update all your builds, so let me kindly remind you to do so.... but again thank you for the great builds and the information about them

[@SlanderedGaming]

LOL Absolutely I will update all of them. I have some more story videos to release next week but the week after that will probably be all build videos.

[@dumplingshakes22]

I’m on my third run! as a trickster Aldori swordlord and I’m running an all merc party this time for fun! I built an RP friendly adventuring party like you’d see in a dnd game and I love it. Custom portraits and all

[@mduckernz]

"All merc" and "fun" don't seem to go together tbh. Isn't it really boring, with almost no party interactivity..?

[@dumplingshakes22]

@@mduckernz it’s my third playthrough. I’ve had enough of the companions I’d rather just have fun killing demons

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's awesome. Glad you are really enjoying the game.

[@iamkurogane]

Just started playing the game I’ve only played Baldur’s Gate two and I have no idea what’s going on in this game. Loving these guides right now thank you so much for taking the trouble to make them really enjoying the game now

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Glad you are enjoying them!

[@zuloph]

I'd personally take Outflank at 5 on the horse, just swap the 5 and 7 feat basically. That way when Seelah is mounted on her horse she's always flanking with it with the way flanking works in this game and more to hit sooner is always good. Also, even if a pet isn't dex based 3 ranks of mobility is usually always good if you're going to have it fighting defensively since at 3 ranks mobility you get an extra +1 dodge bonus to AC

[@SlanderedGaming]

Forgot about that and it's a great point. Took the mobility on Seelah but not on the horse. Thanks for the callout.

[@fathernightroadgaming3435]

@@SlanderedGaming i have the mythic pack and do not see the black horse at all ? did i do something wrong?

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@fathernightroadgaming3435 If I remember correctly the Black Horse was a preorder item.

[@Lashrath]

How to make a good tank: Start as a paladin - done.

[@SlanderedGaming]

LOL Yeah Paladin's are awesome.

[@ChromaticJester]

RP >>> power building but making them strong is very dope too great builds do both really enjoy your content been watching the lich playthrough but I wonder if you'll do a good play through for us too

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I plan to switch off. I will probably do four playthroughs on the channel. One good then evil etc. etc.

[@glassworktrophic8465]

I'm only interested in sticking to RP themes with companion builds. I feel like it pushes your creativity to find something both thematically consistent and still effective. But, I don't really have any intention of playing on core/unfair. If I did I'd probably need spreadsheet builds.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I agree that's why I prefer to stick with rping builds.

[@justinsmith5582]

Agree 100% on the nonsense of throwing crane style on everyone.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you!

[@20storiesunder]

Same!

[@TheRoleplayer40k]

It’s not nonsense just different priorities Enemy stats on hard make it required

[@20storiesunder]

@@TheRoleplayer40k Then emey stats are badly implemented. Crane style working on everything is a bug at best.

[@justinsmith5582]

@@TheRoleplayer40k And that is indicative of bad design where you are required to use it across so much of your party.

[@ThePewace]

Thanks for the video. I actually thought Crane wing was bugged because I couldn't see the bonus, now I know!

[@SlanderedGaming]

My pleasure!

[@JarredPearman]

In KM it is emphatically bugged and works with 2handers even though it says with 1 hand free. Is it bugged here too? When it showed in KM was only in the combat log.

[@barachiel212]

*listens to the entire rant against Monk/Vivisectionist dips*

[@ShivaX51]

Good thing about Bless Weapon is casting it on other people who have low crit range (and especially big multipliers). Bows, scythes, picks, axes, anyone going Vital Strike line, etc. Unlike Crusader's Edge it can be cast on bows and the like as well, so it's generally always handy to toss on someone. Edit: The other Veil spell at level one is really good early as well. It lasts basically forever and undead show up quite a bit early on.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I use the other Veil spell more in Act 1 but less in the other acts. Didn't think about Bless Weapon on my archers that's a great point.

[@SpaceVENTING]

I personally do not like dipping into other classes to fill holes. So im with ya there lol

[@benjamincarlson6994]

So i know you don't like Monk dips, but i would be genuinely interested in how you'd build a pure or mostly pure Monk mercenary or primary character build. Not involving companions.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I have to update my beta builds but once that's finished I will definitely dive into this.

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

I liked the idea of a monk that could turn into a dragon for my Main in Kingmaker... never could make it work, and Valerie was enough of a pain in the ass that I thought Gold Dragon/Sorcerer/ Scaled Fist Monk works for her personality (I didn't like Tower Shield Expert, but I thought if she's gonna have high AC then I can boost that stat higher until I can do something fun with her) I didn't get that far, and it didn't really pan out the way I planned on...I tried with and without the crane style but the detriments didn't seem worth the "pay off" (I was only low levels before the time management/exhuastion mechanics made me drop the title) but I happen to like Unarmed builds whenever I'm allowed to have that playstyle. Also, usually I figure the shield is more a sign of office for a paladin, but I don't necessarily mind a blackguard with a big arsed sword in demonic armor screaming "it's just a flesh wound!" - Guess I can save that for a Hellknight, and name him Al Simmons. Or, Copy Right? Is that an infringment? o. O (I also really prefer my MC to be the "offensive monster." It tends to bug me when other party members do better at killing than the main character lol. It can happen, and it did in a lot of cases while I was learning which stats and feats were decent to take in Kingmaker) - Side note: I am a little leary of the corruption mechanic for being too similar to the exhaustion point. On easy, is it difficult to manage? Because it was a major pain in my ass in Kingmaker and I'd rather avoid more frustration if I can. Sorry for the triple post but I'd offer an idea as to why Dodge bonus from Crane doesn't show on character sheet. It's a dodge bonus granted to your AC that applies ( directly when you've actively dodged an attack) It won't be read in your AC most of the time, because it's a very specific circumstantial bonus. You might see it in the table that shows during combat as a record. It's not a constant application, so that's perhaps one reason. I don't know, I rarely kept track of that when I was playing pathfinder. I do think it's weird they didn't record it so it could be noted it applied in general. It might be an oversight on the part of the devs. It could be that it does function exactly as intended; but you'll probably never know when it has, since it's only there to enhance the probability you will dodge a strike and it's only active for a very limited time during that circumstance. One of the big problems with balancing a dodge tank is that someone will eventually always hit you. So you can't avoid everything at all times. It might be they decided not to clog the screen beyond a certain point, or they could only show up to a set point, so they trimmed some fat as it were. Just a theory. I like what you did with the build here. I do prefer having other characters take the damage for my Main lol. I just don't like it when they steal "my" kills, or frag me, after all who knows if it really was just an accident? : )

[@SlanderedGaming]

I would say the Corruption mechanic is easier to manage because you just need a person who specializes in Religion to keep it down consistently. Sosiel is the best party member for this. Having Seelah is also very helpful because you can make Fatigue/Exhaustion one of her mercies, allowing you to alleviate the status' as they come up.

[@TheRavenShadowsWolf]

@@SlanderedGaming I did like that feat on Paly. I was one thing I tried doing with my Main the first 3 lvls to Pally to get ALL the immunites and I took the exhausted mercy. I am glad there's a way to mitigate the corruption. That will make me less stressed. Thanks for the answer : )

[@yomogami4561]

monk does work with aldori defender if you think of it as a part of the training in defense. mind i find i'm dipping into aldori so much because the weapon and accompanying feats provide offense and defense. one thing i don't usually see that i think should be part of seelah is a level rogue due to her back story. it would be nice if it was her first level [i usually use rowdy] but i give it to her now at 2nd level sadly for rp reasons i don't keep her around with evil main characters. same reason i don't use wendaug at all as she admits to everyone she's a cannibal fyi i didn't have early dlc and i get black horse

[@SlanderedGaming]

I've seen people mention giving Seelah rogue levels. I understand the thinking behind it but I feel like that would need to be a level 1 dip rping wise. She has completely left that life behind so it feels weird to dip into it after she has went down the route of a Paladin.

[@yomogami4561]

@@SlanderedGaming agreed i usually give her one level rowdy at 2nd. Level but later when respecting old builds

[@darkhol222]

Only time when I use vivisectionist deep was my Thief 3, Vivisectionist 1 and Slayer 16. For Swarm-That-Walks part. Theme was something like “Serial killer who studied bodies of living beings to be best”.

[@SlanderedGaming]

LMFAO That sounds awesome!

[@darkhol222]

@@SlanderedGaming thanks.

[@neurolancer81]

Great video Samori. This is very similar to my Seelah build. I would love to see your Soseil build. I don’t want to take Daeran in my party but I cannot get Soseil to be good. Any ideas on the class you will be playing for your Azata play through?

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the content. I will probably run an Elemental Specialists. I want to combine Chain Lightening and fire damage.

[@EmperorProtects4848]

Awesome man! Now I just need a sosiel build and I can just roll with my party because I don't want to deal with the build details. Btw, is it possible that the Daeran spreadsheet got switched with the lann one?

[@SlanderedGaming]

It wasn't switched I just haven't finished the Daeran build yet so the sheet doesn't look right. LOL I hope to work on it sometime this week.

[@EmperorProtects4848]

@@SlanderedGaming Ah, so that's it.. I was confused lol, thanks for your work! And have a nice Disney trip!

[@SlanderedGaming]

@@EmperorProtects4848 Thank you!

[@Biscuit_Goblin]

I personally can't stand min max builds. It takes away some of the role-playing aspects of the game for me and i play RPGs to roleplay. Great content 👌

[@ashvandal5697]

In concept I don’t mind powering up a build as much as possible but they always seem so wonky and built on some dumb gimmick. Give me a good role play build that is as optimized as possible. Not some twenty class biter build

[@Fastwinstondoom]

I like going abit optimized at level 1, but some people take it way too far... dumping two stats down to -7 at level 1 just hurts my eyes and brain.

[@Matiargentino100]

this is a problem in this game, because if you dont play on normal on below, and you dont minmax, you are having a really bad time

[@ashvandal5697]

@@Matiargentino100 I don’t have a problem playing on normal or even story. It’s a single player game and no one is watching me

[@Fastwinstondoom]

@@Matiargentino100 Core isn't too bad with single-class builds when you know the mechanics etc, but the two above core, holy shit. The playthoughs I've seen on unfair have been multiclass everyone to have animal companions, mounted combat charge cheese. That seems so far away from fun to me as to be from another planet xD

[@safetythirdified]

I fux with chu. You have Paladin principal. Subed.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Thank you! Welcome to the channel!

[@orelas167]

All Seelah needs to tank is Camelia putting Protective Luck on her every round. It's three times more ridiculous than Valerie. "Or some other crutch." (Oh, well excuse me.)

[@Norbingel]

I made Camelia my buffer and Protective Luck is crazy good. However, I got Chant on her so I can buff and keep buffed multiple allies with PL

[@orelas167]

@@Norbingel Being able to use standard action buffs every 3 seconds outside of combat makes this combo insane. Instead of putting on a light show before combat, Camelia's doing a mosh show as she gets everyone to 20 seconds or more of protection. (Don't try to save it, though, reloading makes PL immune to Chant.)

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I heard PL makes some of the harder fights trivial.

[@Kyravexa]

I don`t see the sense in Protection from Alignment, because you get so many Rings that give you deflection bonus and so many capes that give you resistance bonus beyond +2. So why take Protection from Alignment?

[@SlanderedGaming]

For my frontline fighters that makes sense. For my backline fighters their rings and cloaks are dedicated to making them better at damage or CC. So oftentimes the boost in defenses is very useful for them.

[@Kyravexa]

@@SlanderedGaming Ah, I see. Thank you.

[@LChaos2]

I read somewhere that the Pathfinder community (pen and paper) has a minmaxing rash on the community and I'm guessing it kinda bled over to the games?

[@Fastwinstondoom]

Regular 5e has it too, just to a lesser degree. Multiclassing paladin and warlock etc. Whenever you have choices that are objectively more effective than others people will metagame. The "problem" in pathfinder is that the features you get from multiclasses far outstripes the level 20 capstone ability in almost all cases. Not a fan of multiclassing for minmaxing personally, I think it destroys class fantasy.

[@havokmusicinc]

PF got its minmaxing from D&D 3.x which it is based on, which was very prone to minmaxing due to how it handled (and strongly encouraged) multiclassing, which lead to the concept of diverse and unique character builds. Minmaxing has been around in D&D since AD&D2e though, especially with regard to how psionics worked in that edition, but due to how restrictive 2e was with classes and races, the amount a player could minmax was severely limited.

[@mduckernz]

3.5e also included intentionally poor feats and other build options as traps to punish those without a deep knowledge of the game (no conspiracy theory, this; the designer in question said so outright). Institutionalised gatekeeping, essentially. And what does such an ethos attract in terms of people and their personalities, I wonder :/ Just to be absolutely clear, this is not most players. It's a small fraction - most people are good, kind people. But it's why the 3.5 community began with a larger than usual proportion of assholes.

[@SlanderedGaming]

I think one of the reasons my community has been really positive thus far is the lack of min-maxing content. There are some types who just aren't attracted to what I provide, probably for the better.

[@Stefan-xt5sk]

Damage resistance against everything except evil seems like a weird capstone ability for a paladin, whose entire thing is TO FIGHT EVIL. It just doesn't make sense.

[@mduckernz]

I mean, the demons have the same thing - damage reduction except against good aligned weapons. Think of it in terms of "can prevent damage except against things so utterly alien to their nature that their protection fails" and it makes more sense

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah protection works different in pathfinder I had to get used to it.

[@Panthro-lo2lh]

It makes me sad because I love Scaled Fist/Dragon monk. Just seems bad ass.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Then try it out, no reason to be sad. LOL

[@The-Random-Hamlet]

Question: Is there any unique dialogue with inquisitor Hulrun if the main character is an inquisitor of Iomadae?

[@SlanderedGaming]

I don't think the Inquisitor gets dialogue but Seelah gets unique dialogue with him if you have her in the party when first meeting him.

[@The-Random-Hamlet]

@@SlanderedGaming Shucks. Would have been amusing.

[@Sir_AlexxTv]

100% agreed .. doing the same dips every time makes things boring imho.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Exactly!

[@Javitomanzano]

Hi. I think there is a mistake in your builds folder. When opening the Darean one it shows all levels for Zen Archer as class.

[@SlanderedGaming]

That's because I haven't worked on the Daeran build yet so the sheet isn't finished. :)

[@Javitomanzano]

@@SlanderedGaming Got it. I thought it was an error so I just wanted to warn you. Great builds :)

[@rythem17]

I feel you, I’m not too hot on monk either (kinda irritates me, monk more AC than decked out heavy armor? Make sense?) I like your builds tho keep it going. I prefer builds for lore/style than difficulty.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yeah I hate that less armor is the way to go if you really want to be tanky. It's very difficult to make a great defensive build where you have minimum Dexterity, heavy armor, and a Tower Shield.

[@leyasu888]

Is Half of the pair working properly now? I remember reading that it is currently bugged and does nothing

[@SlanderedGaming]

Hmmmmm it was working the last time I checked but that was a while ago.

[@20storiesunder]

@@SlanderedGaming Such a perfect item for Seelah and horse.

[@franciscoalessandrello5431]

shouldnt you take any feats that help you not being flat footed? otherwise when you're using crane style you're not getting your additional points to AC (dodge) if you're tanking against more than one enemy

[@SlanderedGaming]

That would make her more tanky but for me it's sacrificing too much offense. Every so often she'll be caught slipping and my healer will need to help. When that happens she'll rip apart the enemy on her turn. Everything is perfectly balanced. LOL

[@franciscoalessandrello5431]

@@SlanderedGaming okay got it. I’m kind of new to pathfinder so maybe I was missing something haha

[@Narklas_unavailable]

ye man the typical monk, vivi and crossblooded sorc dips are so 0815 :D PS how is one of your hands free for crane wing if you carry a 2 handed sword?

[@jza61nick]

I think most of the feats that call for an empty hand don't actually work that way. My sword saint duel wields and still gets canny dodge as an example.

[@mduckernz]

@@jza61nick Yup, it SHOULD disallow it, but it doesn't, leading to broken ass nonsense

[@Narklas_unavailable]

@@jza61nick well theres always possibilities to abuse stuff which is not intended to work. I personally dont enjoy glitched builds, so i never tried to use feats which call for empty offhand with a 2 handed weapon or 2 1 handed in your case at all.

[@SlanderedGaming]

My understanding is it is not glitched, it's the one it works in tabletop. There is disagreement within the Pathfinder community about if it should work that way but it's not an exploit. I agree that exploit builds are trash, since they only work until the issue is patched.

[@mduckernz]

@@SlanderedGaming I can see how this could be the case for longswords and other weapons that may be wielded with either one or two hands (yet another thing the game does not support, but which mods have added support for), and this includes the rather generous case of where the player has explicitly opted to use it two handed but still receives the benefit because it /could/ be used one handed... but for things like greatswords, say, that are /always/ two handed, I cannot possibly see how it can be anything but an implementation error Mind you do not take this as criticism of you, as it's really nothing to do with you other than you're the one having to use it, it's just an observation.

[@xcenic]

Im definitely using this shit right now.

[@SlanderedGaming]

Awesome! Glad you found the content valuable!

[@dhockedy1273]

I just made her a greatshield shieldbearer

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup that works as well.

[@zandilar630]

If you wanted to incorporate RP elements to Seelah's build, you'd probably have her take a few levels in rogue, given she was a thief before she became a paladin and it's implied she was thieving for a significant part of her life. Monk doesn't fit the RP because the incident you're talking about only happened once. :) Unarmed combat is a thing, and you don't need to dip into monk for it. :)

[@SlanderedGaming]

How many times do you have to almost die due to being unarmed before you decide to pick up some new skills? 😂😂

[@My2CentsYall]

Yeah ... they multi class the hell out of characters.

[@SlanderedGaming]

😂

[@20storiesunder]

Thank you for not doing crane style, its just stupid. Edit: Just*

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup my pleasure.

[@eddiebulls7851]

Crutches are for min-maxxers and pro-gamers. lulz

[@ashvandal5697]

Minmaxing is fine in a competitive game but not a damn single player rpg.

[@shawngillogly6873]

@@ashvandal5697 If you're playing Unfair, then by all means, use every advantage you can. Because the AI does. But on anything but Unfair, these triple dip Munchkin builds aren't necessary. And when people say, "monk for Crane style!" in Wrath, it's doubly pointless, because there's a background which grants Improved Unarmed Strike, the prereq for Crane, for free. No monk required. And with all the other ways to build AC stacks in this game, Monk AC is just one. Moreover, there's none of the insane monk robes Kingmaker had. so dunking armor completely isn't profitable.

[@mduckernz]

@@shawngillogly6873 They don't take it just for crane - they also use it for AC stacking because they can add their WIS or CHA to their AC. Merely using the Martial background doesn't grant those features - only Monk levels do (or similar features of other classes, like the frequently used Nature Oracle for example)

[@SlanderedGaming]

Yup I agree. It's a powerful class but I refuse to let it consume my builds.

[@shawngillogly6873]

@@mduckernz Which is why I specifically stated there are other ways to stack AC. Duelist does it, without dumping armor. How is it "better" to make a single attribute dependant character MAD for the sake of +2 to AC and needing more gear? If Wrath had the itemization Kingmaker did, you'd have an argument. But it doesn't. Monk is *a* way to stack AC. It isn't *the* way.