Slavoj Žižek's The Sublime Object of Ideology with Rafael Winkler

[@rogueinsiderpodcast]

Sloterdijk mentioned! 47:20

[@chaseharrison2064]

Would be awesome to eventually get an episode covering the spheres trilogy

[@feelthewyrd]

thank you very much for sharing and setting up this conversation. I have listened to zizek since 2008 when i watched "a perverts guide to cinema" for the first time of countless many rewatches right up to the present day. Zizek is appalling as an explanatory writer and speaker. I tried twice to read "the sublime object of ideology" .... and could not get past chapter one. Incomprehensible to me, and not a 'painful' symptom that i enjoyed.... as compared to his wonderful film. this was really useful. thankyou to both of you. I have a much better sense of what zizek is saying. I also understand why he is often described as a nihilist and a pessimist (as you hinted at through your questions) . And although i understand Rafael's explanation that life is meaningless, because meaning is created out of differential sounds ...... i don't agree. meaning is a part of reality just like matter and the id. Reality is a mix of oil and water. It is incomplete yes. fallible yes..... but not necessarily hopeless in the meaningful sense. Meaning can survive incompleteness. It is not necessarily a self destructive recursion. We can live with incompleteness .... meaningfully. politically however, we are in a mess. representative democracy has created a two tier madness where neither tier knows what it is doing .... let alone relates properly to the other tier. in fact the improper relationship of mass democracy has unfortunately become the creator of the two tier madness and stupidity. But we are so indoctrinated into the ideology of representative democracy and capitalism we cannot concieve of an alternative. Hence zizek's own joking suggestion of a return to marxism. It is a joke that signals that we are in trouble ........ and we cannot yet know how to make our societies stable and fair. we will unfortunately have to experience a fall before we can find an alternative. Ever has it been thus throughout human history.

[@mikrophonie5633]

You should ask Zizek to be on the show. Sniff...and so on.

[@F--B]

The subject escapes the symbolic order, only to become a slave to the unconditional demands of the Id.

[@feelthewyrd]

i know what you mean ... but is it not the case that the subject (ego) is expelled by the symbolic order (superego), like a child is expelled from the mothers body? ie the mirror stage as a symbolic birth? The the 'big other' in the act of expulsion states "thats you that is" .... and so the ego in symbolic birth has to take responsibility for controlling the id and the body. .... an impossible responsibility unless we allow aberrant behaviour as a secret part of our social norms and superego identities.

[@F--B]

@feelthewyrd Controlling the Id necessitates establishing a set of criteria that not only define the methods and parameters of this control but also reflect a moral framework. You're back in the symbolic order.

[@feelthewyrd]

@@F--B thats my point ...... the ego doesnt escape the symbolic order. Nor is the id a part of the symbolic order. The unconditional demands of the id are not symbolic. Its the ego that is given the impossible symbolic responsibility to control the non symbolic. The ego never escapes the symbolic order because it is born in kind of the symbolic order.

[@jankan4027]

Of course you can resolve symptom. Jesus! But you cannot get free of all symptoms. There is also difference between id and unc. You can also see through ideology and symbolic as such.

[@vincenzospaghetti]

Yeahhhhh, kinda just nonsense. The dialog nearly can't happen because these two have so much trouble expressing what they seemingly comprehended about Slavoj's ethereal mechanics to a materialist brain's computational construction of this nihilistic hell... Let me suggest, to whoever had their mind blown by Slavoj in the recent past, read and truly learn the metaphysics of Christianity. It is just a more simple solution. Simple is beautiful and natural, simple is the genius, simple is restrained by laws. Complex is shallow. Complex is fragile. Complex is chaos