Slavoj Zizek - Toxic masculinity used to be called 'courage'!

[@iwouldprefernotto49]

If you want to get Zizek's 'I WOULD PREFER NOT TO' t-shirt you can do so here: i-would-prefer-not-to.com

[@LeonWagg]

He said, ”in some situations,” it can be called courage. His point is that it's incorrect to think of toxic masculinity as a medical issue because, in some situations, to be radical, you have to act in brutal manners, and they can be considered toxic. His point is actually a point against liberal conformism. Another point that he made is that men’s aggression can also be a product of social antagonism, and to treat it as a medical issue, you avoid addressing real political-economic problems. Stop with this clickbait title. It is getting ridiculous.

[@oraz.]

I think he probably does want to reject institutional clinical thinking about gender around this topic. I'm just seeing a lot of people angry at the video hoping to project Zizek is less critical of the subject.

[@pricriminal8891]

i think its a bit late in the day to call for the abolition of clickbait and so on

[@oraz.]

@SANTIAGO ARAGON MOLINA I think he's criticizing how this one notion has been elevated to an instututional level. Everyone seems so eager to talk past what he said in the video.

[@danielslapcoff2240]

@@pricriminal8891 the issue with these titles is that they make him seem like another Jordan Peterson or Sam Harris. He is far from that.

[@tathagatsingh6634]

Thanks. Agree with what you've written 👍

[@RealSavfsimonandres]

How do you manage to make Zizek a reactionary with every title?

[@Me2goTi]

Asked myself the same question

[@dvrds]

would you have watched were it not for the title? Doubt it.

[@Me2goTi]

@@dvrds Sure I would. Zizek get a several hundred thousand views on lectures about Hegel, he's one of the few people who manages to get that many views for this type of content

[@specialknees6798]

Because that’s how you reel in Jordan Peterson’s audience

[@jimjimmy8900]

@@specialknees6798 similarly to this guy, JP always gets some very extreme titles and when you watch the video it ends up being just general knowledge

[@Ali-lm7uw]

These clickbait titles and sensationalizing phenomenon is why media has a bad name. They take everything out of context and lie.

[@DoughBoy45]

It’s why I clicked. Tho misleading, it did end up making me like Slavoj

[@anthonymcintyre2242]

@@DoughBoy45 Your clicking still indicates a social issue at large. You were led to information I assume you value, not by choice but by a sensationalised title - which indicates a commodified, culturalised manner of obtaining information. This should not be the case and "Surely it is okay because something good has happened in the midst of all the shit" is what has placed humanity on the path to extinction. The persistent rationalisation of a dysfunctional society because of the "good bits". All is rational in the sense that we are an animal discovering and exploring, not all is rational when that animal forgets it can make decisions outwith the ever changing perspetive of it's own creation - society. Perhaps this way of obtaining information is a temporary neccesity - something deemed inefficient by the user. We cannot proclaim to be progressive when justifying/rationalising the world we would change. I'm not saying you aren't progressive, I'm saying perhaps think about how you attribute value when communicating.

[@Nature_Consciousness]

@@anthonymcintyre2242 Many people like myself clicked the video to see his instances on the subject. Also we are not fully animals though, Animals cant do all that we do, we are Animals and something else at the same time. The reason why we are so fucked up is the confusion about this intersection of two opposing natures, that creates conflict and chaos on people.

[@tathagatsingh6634]

"My friends told me" For a misanthrope-pessimist he sure does have a whole lot of friends for every anecdote.

[@tiagosilva9152]

Or, idk, maybe he has friends that are actually interesting?

[@pricriminal8891]

misanthropic pessimists unite

[@tathagatsingh6634]

@John the Skub miner Same

[@bsxboy]

He has people. waiting in mile long lines to have a conversation with him in private. I'm pretty sure, some of thm become their friends.

[@dominik13579]

haha true and friends from every country, every religion and every scientific field

[@Fiscacondaniel]

The only leftist that criticize the stupid left. I love him

[@duggme]

He's not the only one..

[@ScumfucRecords]

Leftist ? Lol, nope.

[@badtuber1654]

yeah, sorry but, beeing in favor of death penalty, is stupid, and it will allways be.

[@14DENISS88]

Jimmy Dore, Kyle Kulinsky 😉

[@Repetoire]

Liberals are not the left.

[@FatDadGoesFitDad]

„...you want to defend men beating women. -No, kill them. I’m one of the few people I know that are for death penalty.“ He is quite a straight fellow!

[@zrinkamatezovic1535]

Hah 😂 I agree here with him!

[@aliazarmehralparslan6067]

@@zrinkamatezovic1535 Same for women who may abuse their partners?

[@gking407]

Why not call it “toxic aggression” or “hyper independence”? Surely no gender has the copyright on toxic behavior!

[@Bingbang.1]

@AK Right. Interesting point of view. Because masculinity isn't the problem (hopefully). Even aggression isn't a problem because its natural. But irrational aggression is a problem, and even that is nothing to go crazy about because it has always been around and always will. Right?

[@jojomojojones]

Kat Sew no it’s not.

[@Bingbang.1]

@Kat Sew thats like saying femininity is a problem. Its a part of who we are!

[@JeffPenaify]

@Kat Sew yeah until it comes to building and maintaining the whole infrastructure of the society 😂

[@okay5573]

Hyper-independence is such an appealing termification. I think the description given was way too specific to actually be applicable in the given term, toxic masculinity would me more accurate as a construct if we assume that they represent the extremes of the low agreeableness cluster. We can argue firstly that toxic masculinity is rare and likely a biologically determined factor, secondly we can lump together hyper-dominance and hyper-independence as well as aspects of 'the dark triad' and favorably speaking construct a few more conceptions in this vein to create an independent inventory for toxic masculinity, then we could measure it and "prove" it. Holy frick, tis' a brilliant idea for my PhD huehuehue

[@j0hn00arthur]

it's like being literally spit by facts in your ear

[@meh62]

"No! Kill them." - Zizek, 2020

[@meh62]

@WoundrousMindTrick if it's 'almost' out of self preservation, and not an actual self defense, the crime must get punished. man or woman. Geez.

[@havardhullen889]

@WoundrousMindTrick He only supports the death penalty in principle. He wants to include so many safety mechanisms that we won't kill anyone. The point is to avoid our current situation with vigilante action, secret prisons and so on. It's similar to why he supports Wikileaks - turning secret norms into official matters, and reducing the damage overall.

[@charliedawson6318]

"No. Kill them!" - Emperor Zizek, 2030

[@meh62]

@WoundrousMindTrick Ok, you have some point. But the example Zizek makes a comment lightly is about domestic violence against women, which is always private and individual(which means the logic of justification is always arbitrary for one person to another), and yielded by stronger person against who don't have the same power, and has already been unjustly justified historically. That's why I don't think the attacker is one the side of whom who should be justified even more. Death penalty issue is another thing I guess. (yup I don't use perfect English but I believe it's understandable.)

[@Optimus6128]

@WoundrousMindTrick Exactly my first thought. He proposes the death penalty for something whose meaning has been trivialised that it's so much easier to be wrongly accused for domestic violence and abuse in the era of "believe all women". Men's lives can already be destroyed in some cases for things they haven't done or it wasn't as described, if you could know the whole truth behind some cases you'd be puzzled how some men were destroyed for petty things.

[@ram4546]

My daily dose

[@lobhabbrea]

Thanks Doc

[@mokeyrock]

My daily nose

[@schmule460]

Weirdly me too. Is it weird that I watch a bit of psychology everyday?

[@thegoodkidboy7726]

Search Dragonball daily dose

[@davecullins1606]

This guy had all his skillpoints put into intelligence and charisma _and absolutely nothing else._

[@natemitten5787]

Lmfao! *sniffs*

[@danielkoenen859]

Omg put like 1 point into constitution. The sniffing is killing me bruh.

[@rasmusn.e.m1064]

Tbf I think there's also a lot of points dumped into his Charisma xD

[@KrishanKumar-bx4io]

tbh zizek is a very charming dude lol i don't think he would have such a following if he wasnt

[@ddhqj2023]

@@danielkoenen859 He has uncontrollable tics. Not like he's choosing to do it, so it's pretty tacky that you call him on it.

[@thatyoutubechannel9953]

Zizek is one of my favorite philosophers not because I agree with everything he says and not because I like his personality, but because I so seriously disagree with so much of what he says and because I know I would hate to be around him for very long. People like this are important for your growth when understanding philosophy, politics, leftist theory, and much more. Don't be afraid of disliking or disagreeing with people, only be disgusted by disaffectedness.

[@Ggeorgiev89]

What's your point

[@klemenator]

@@Ggeorgiev89 his point is that he loves philosophers that have a differing world view from his as there you can learn the most about diferent perspectives ideas etc

[@Ggeorgiev89]

@@asdf1991asdf I generally like Zizek. He has a powerful voice

[@thatyoutubechannel9953]

@@asdf1991asdf Somewhat. I disagree with a lot of his social descriptions. I don't want to spend an hour talking about every intricacy of Zizek's views, but I would say I'm a bit more orthodox left-libertarian than Zizek in my thinking. By no means am I just following the pack, especially in terms of strategy, but I'm nowhere near as out there as Zizek.

[@liamdavis2788]

Birthday card pish

[@Orgotheonemancult]

I love that this channel seems to be specifically challenging the notion that Zizek is just another leftist. You do good such a good job of highlighting his statements which have set him apart from the crowd.

[@superluukiee]

I personally felt quite alone being a leftist in this neo-liberal and PC West. But now I feel so happy there is philosopher backing me up.

[@miroslavdanilov902]

He IS leftist

[@miroslavdanilov902]

@Johannes Terzis liberal IS left

[@MarcoAntonio-xd1ej]

@Johannes Terzis you até damn right. Liberals are indeed right wing

[@dominicvaldes5890]

Semantics gymnastics ... can’t a man just have a set of values thats unique to him without everyone trying to figure out what group think he prescribes to ....

[@iannordin5250]

Why does Zizek always look like he's about to fall apart into a pile of goo

[@antonysuarez3128]

"BWAAAAAAAAALRGH"

[@tototakeke]

You see, i am a goo man.

[@eccojamspl3991]

Just so everyone's aware, the American Psychological Association never classified toxic masculinity as a disease. The APA did issue an advisory describing ways in which toxic masculinity can have a negative impact on mental health in January 2019, but they did not call it a mental illness.

[@oraz.]

Anyone trying to justify this is really out of it. There are plenty who think selectively elevating this one characterization until it becomes it's own trope and making it clinical practice is a bad idea. The way the left seems desperate to defend arrogant instututional thinking especially when it gets to the clinic is pretty disappointing.

[@eccojamspl3991]

I'm not defending anything, just stating a fact. There is plenty of discussions to be had on the current portrayal of toxic masculinity and I'm sure we would agree on quite a few points, but if rectifying a factually incorrect statement is "justifying" anything, then you are really "out of it".

[@oraz.]

@@eccojamspl3991 Your comment isn't there just chiming in to correct one casual statement, obviously. It does goes on trying to portray merit in the apa's guidelines. It should not be in there at all, for a number of reasons.

[@eccojamspl3991]

@@oraz. Why shouldn't the APA comment on a societally relevant issue? I never said I agreed with them either, I just gave a short summary of what they actually said for those who can't be bothered to look it up themselves.

[@DoratTheKiller]

Thanks for pointing this out

[@KhubbaS]

Zizek is in favor of the death penalty for those who commit domestic violence. You heard it here first.

[@KC-yd5kj]

Consider now that women are significantly more likely to hit men and children in domestic disputes and it almost never gets recorded as a domestic violence incident for the simple reason that if men call the cops it's usually them that get arrested.

[@donut2111]

That's abysmal

[@KhubbaS]

K C Consider in relation to what?

[@KC-yd5kj]

@@KhubbaS that if we applied that logic consistently across society it would severely reduce the female population of the west.

[@neonfatum]

​@@KC-yd5kj This isn't the silver bullet argument you think it is. When men commit domestic violence the physical and psychological impact is much more severe and the difference in the amount of violence perpetrated by each gender isn't at all as significant as you make it out to be, in fact it's rather even. So desperate to portray men as the victims that you would stoop so low as to defend abusers?

[@benjamincarnell2590]

Zizek speaks with a measure of care and precision that should make it hard for this kind of misinterpretation to happen accidentally.

[@GeriatricPimp]

You're referring to the title? I agree wit you on dat. I sometimes see conservative speakers point out that George Carlin was a conservative because he believed in free speech....???....many people, including myself, don't always see the forest for the trees.

[@moltargaltar1219]

I don’t know why he came up with that definition, I think toxic masculinity persists into personality beyond how you handle difficult situations. Has a lot to do with narcissism, but it’s an old world way of acting, as it stems from wanting to be respected in a pack hierarchy through displays of aggression.

[@l3gacy_-nitro241]

So basically an asshole which applies to both sexes toxic masculinity is just another way to try to feminize men and then women ask where are all the real men at. Same way the whole where are the nice guys and good men at. When you award bad and toxic behavior that's what people become. Because if it's not about that and this is truly about equality why isnt there a toxic femininity? It doesnt exist because it boils down to the same thing they say about toxic men which then again boils down being a controlling demanding narcissistic asshole. The minute real feminist step up and throw out the misandrist people and speak about real issues and dont put a mans face on it but even with saying man did this or that it instinctively pops in your head so we know it's an issue then I'll stand with them.

[@விஷ்ணு_கார்த்திக்]

@@l3gacy_-nitro241 "Real Feminist"

[@legalfictionnaturalfact3969]

Legacy. You are grasping at straws. The nature of femininity is inherently different from the nature of masculinity. That's why they won't be accused of the same things. Femininity is designed to oppressed women. To shut us up and make us invisible. Luckily for the human race, not going to work. :-) Sex roles are imaginary. No one sex owns or gets to lay claim to any particular personality trait.

[@Nature_Consciousness]

@@legalfictionnaturalfact3969 I actually think there is a Very light difference beteeen Men and women, it is Just that it is mostly amplified by society which reflects and influences their behaviors.

[@Nature_Consciousness]

@@l3gacy_-nitro241 there doesnt really exists masculinity or feminility in its purest essence though, their tiny differences are mostly amplified by society, making people forcelly behave in a certain way.

[@blankslate7315]

For whatever it’s worth I’ve seen people who argue against “toxic masculinity” who support things like courage, but who are against, but disapprove of taking certain toxic behaviours and labeling them as “masculine.” Also a lot the time when people close themselves off and refuse to ask for help it’s because they’re afraid of the response that they’ll get, or they’re afraid of how they’ll view themselves, so it could be argued that it would be more courageous to ask for help if you’re afraid of doing so, as many people are. Also I’ve never seen the anti toxic masculinity crowd say that aggression and the like is inherently bad or toxic, but that a lot of the time it is. I say this as someone who would probably get labeled as “toxic” by some people (although not by others) for my obstinate, stubborn refusal to do certain things or not do other things. Just something to think about.

[@ck1438]

You are saying that people who commit suicide are cowards?

[@abhiklovesbadbitches]

@@ck1438 how the hell are you inferring that

[@abhiklovesbadbitches]

i disagree, ive seen a lot of the toxic masculinity crowd especially more recently (as your comment was written a couple years ago, i understand your pov) have a problem with masculinity overall

[@moatasemkassab4517]

Imagine going to the Battle of Normandy and telling the people there that keeping their emotions in and confronting the enemy is toxic masculinity.

[@moatasemkassab4517]

@nickers7409 I'll let you guess...

[@Benjamin_Bratten]

That opening second nearly knocked me out of my chair.

[@FafikGrapodol]

zizek still way beyond anything or anyone else, very impressive

[@SkepticalJesusOfficial]

He's a smart guy but don't put him on a pedestal, he's still wrong about things sometimes

[@FafikGrapodol]

​@@SkepticalJesusOfficial well obviously in confines of his knowledge, he's old which makes him not able to relate to absolutely everything going on in the world currently, but it's still remarkable how much he's able to keep up with and deeply analyze being able to consistently blow my mind. in decades to come we will wish we still had people like that around, precisely those who have lived through much more and have a bit different educated perspective on certain topics. if there was any justification for all that bullshit about "listening to elders" etc. then this is certainly it. I do honestly believe the sole reason why he's worth listening to is that he's old, smart and well read. I think it's a pedestal well deserved, yet I am well aware that he doesn't know as much as some of us already do pertaining to other issues due to being brought up in a different reality and I don't think anyone ever really expects otherwise. plus his approach is radically different from many right wing pundits who just try to make others think what they think I think in best case scenario Zizek can have a hand in creating a new generation of people who actually will be able to think for themselves and bless him for that even though he's definitely also a source of entertainment first and foremost for many ideologues besides that, judging from comments sometimes, which is not a necessarily a bad thing I guess

[@imdiyu]

Toxic masculinity exits, but masculinity itself is not toxic. There is a fine line between these two. One of the masculine characteristics is being assertive. But many men unfortunately don't know how to be assertive without being aggressive. Because thay have crossed that fine line between assertiveness and aggressiveness. That's also the fine line between masculinity and toxic masculinity. Similarly, there is another masculine characteristic which is competitiveness. Once the fine line is crossed it turns into combativeness. Sports are a good invention to contain that characteristic, but once cheating is involved, one trying to have unfair advantage over another, because the spirit of competitiveness is overlooked for the spirit of winning. Winning or losing should matter, but it shouldn't be of the paramount importance. And that's the genesis of war. I know this is an oversimplification. When one tribe steals food from another, and the other one is fights back to protect it, both the parties are acting out an evolutionary instinct of self preservation. But, it's never just the self preservation either, because once any kind of combative situation occurs, it doesn't take too long to enter into the realm of dogmatism. If fighting was necessary to achive a certain objective, then it would have been still acceptable in the grand scheme of things. But when things go south people go above and beyond to harm each other, and many of their actions or inactions have nothing to with the original objective of self prevention. And it becomes obscene. In the last paragraph, I used the word "people" instead of "men"... Because once we start to deconstruct these things we find out that these are not unique to men. Women are equally toxic. However, the toxicity among men and women manifest in different ways. Sometimes they overlap too. It is true that most of the problems in the world are created by men. That doesn't mean if women ruled the world then we would have been in a better place. I really hope that assumption to be true. But this is only a "what if" scenario and we have no proof to support this hypothesis that is born out of wishful thinking. And, historically speaking women leaders have not been any less worse either. Therefore, it is unfair to give so much bandwidth of thought to toxic masculinity alone (that doesn't mean we should forget it) I think the time for blaming men for everything should come to an end and we shall enter into a new paradigm to look at our problems together as one species. Only problem is that there are way too many nuances, it's easier to see things in Black and white than not.

[@WaaDoku]

2:16 Did he just advocat for killing all men who beat women? Holy shit... Maybe Zizek is more radical than I first thought.

[@MM-vs2et]

Eastern europeans have a more liberal use for the terms of death, and wishing death upon others. Probably just means “fuck them” instead of more “murder them”

[@clovisno756]

@@MM-vs2et nah I think he’s being literal. Which is a good thing btw

[@stovhaxplays1513]

@@clovisno756 are you for the death penalty too? I guess I’m learning new things about this guy everyday.

[@authorbhattacharjee4957]

I'm anti death penalty so that's a no from me

[@Aleks_Ovski416]

@@MM-vs2et I think you have it wrong. We Eastern Europeans understand the gravity of death, when we say it, we mean it, we don't wish death willy-nilly. He was being literal. Is it shocking that a person can support the death penalty for criminals?

[@SpaceTimeManipulatorSTM]

I too once had no clue what toxic masculinity was, but I educated myself. It would seem that some people haven't but choose to discuss it anyway.

[@rickestrickc-1375]

What were the results of your research ?

[@RababaInc]

when the video starts with some smacking, you know it's gonna be good

[@NordicSkadi]

For the sake of Zizek, stop the clickbait. Otherwise i'll unsub

[@EyeOfTheTiger777]

One could argue that Zizek, himself, by his own very nature and presentation, is the embodiment of clickbait. He probably wouldn't mind. :)

[@mambanelson]

​@@EyeOfTheTiger777 Do you think he would want people intentionally misrepresent his words? For attention? Maybe Zizek is not your cup of tea, and that's fine but provocation or oddity is not the same as clickbait.

[@darklord220]

Stop being a bitch

[@KR-mm4el]

@@darklord220 lol

[@indianmonk3380]

It is not 'courage' or 'toxic masculinity', it's called being an adult

[@moraxscontractholder2781]

It’s toxic masculinity

[@indianmonk3380]

@@moraxscontractholder2781 whatever you like to call it, I would take that over cowardly & pathetic life of an invertebrate that liberals/progressives/feminist/SJWs are propagating

[@evelcustom9864]

I highly agree with this. I think this is a natural process of the revolutionary and reactionary pendulum. If we are not careful about these definitions we run the risk of the pendulum swinging much harder.

[@JamMcG]

This social phenomena is captured perfectly in the film Zardos!

[@joshparrott8841]

This is a great source of Z!! The best clips on KZbin; thanks!!

[@ffelegal]

"Kill them, I don't care." lol

[@jayp7845]

Why are people whining that his concept of toxic masculinity is different from theirs? His opinions don’t have to conform to yours just because you like him.

[@bigbrother787]

The issue is that if we aren't working from a common understanding any discussion is essentially useless. Zizek is being intellectually dishonest and straw-manning the opposition If someone thinks communism is 'whenever the government does stuff' and thus argues against it there's really no point in debating on that premise as the premise itself is flawed. edit:I also haven't been able to find the pill ZIzek speaks of so if that's made up(either by ZIzek or his friend) that is also dishonest. I don't know for sure though so I'll assume he's in good faith and give him that one

[@neovxr]

so how do we define and justify a privilege to _some_ people, that they can call someone else "ill"? we have to question it, because the medical doctors have not done this (regarding toxic M), but it was a political faction, and their think tank.

[@pedrovieira-ri7lk]

This vídeo's main parts: 0:15- 1:40 2:37- 2:57

[@tumsaag.1395]

Are women fighting for equality or to degrade men? Such labels suggest it is the later.

[@samyd5410]

Based on this difinition : "It's a male attitude of when you are on a difficult situation instead of reaching out to other you enclose yourself in to yourself and act out aggressively" ===> All revolutions and popular uprisings against dictatorships (for example) originate from "toxic masculinity" in a way (?) Toxic masculinity, if there is something that can be called that, may be the result of the repression of masculinity itself.

[@stevenwilliambaylessparks3730]

Toxic imperialism, toxic hypercapitalism, toxic ecological destruction, toxic racism, etc are more worrisome.

[@bigbrother787]

Imperialism, hypercapitalism, ecological destruction, racism etc are already toxic words/behaviors. They do not need a toxic 'adjective' as they are inherently toxic. 'Toxic masculinity' is there to separate 'masculinity'(good) from toxic masculinity(bad).

[@stevenwilliambaylessparks3730]

@@bigbrother787 you missed the point

[@shamusson]

@@bigbrother787 Toxic masculitnity was made to demonize the true masculitnity (good).

[@Davidzxcv1]

For me, what is toxic, if we choose a definition analogous to the chemical concept of toxicity, it is the frequency in which this radical attitude is chosen over a more conformist or empathic one, since everyone has these attitudes, and it is very difficult to problematize them in isolation. Now, if this is not enough, as I believe, one might think that the "masculine" in that excess considered toxic can give us a more precise perspective to put together the concept and it could be something like this: not only the frequency of a behavior focused on imposition, independent of others, can be toxic, if not that the choice of this behavior as the best of all possible, sustained by a self-perceived condition as a valuable part of "being male" (and insisting on it without let no question touch that certainty) it is precisely the masculine of that toxic masculinity, not the act itself, which can be superficially indistinguishable from any gender. The problem is that I don't know if it's very medicated ... I'm not sure if racism is medicalized, for example. Excuse my google english.

[@Davidzxcv1]

@nickers7409 you can ignore my last three sentences

[@nicolabenigni4490]

What is the ultramodern example?

[@vorval96]

buying 2 hot dogs

[@annakarinaalves]

People don't pay attention at the word 'toxic' enough. So many Men feel personally attacked when we bring up some issues that I start to feel suspicious about them. Women are used to be generalized their entire lives, I was a little kid and I was used to hear my dad, uncles and school boys( only repeating what the adults were saying but still learning with them) talk about how women are selfish, insidious and plain dangerous. Jokes, anedoctes, movies, music the news. It was everywhere and don't even let me start about church). It was super ok. I don't think men are used to be treated on the same broad way. When we brought the term "masculinity" in to the center all hell broke lose. Too broad. Too many people failed to see that was a historical, systematic and structural perspectives but Tumblr teens, and people using these issues as a personality trait and right wing edgy kids on the other side. The debate was so vandalized that I was a feminist don't think I care anymore. Just try to stay away from the internet as much as I can.

[@jeviosoorishas181]

But they aren't though...this is coming from the American Psychological Association. When did the APA become a feminist organization?

[@nedsanders3246]

Haven't yet watched the video but I'm calling it now: This is an absurdly misleading title.

[@iwouldprefernotto49]

Watch the video.

[@JustinBobby-di9zt]

not really

[@maurogarces7337]

You guessed it right, friend

[@filipeisabelinho3425]

What is courageous about a big kid bullying the smaller kids? Courage is standing up to the bully, not being one.

[@voiceofreason2674]

Yea but trust me it does take courage to look in the mirror and say I'm bigger or smarter than these other kids time to push them around. What I don't like about capitalism is that by simply devoting more time to toil earns you the right to push other people around. It leads to a society lead by diligent idiots which Napoleon warned is the most dangerous type of person. I'd rather be lead by somebody who was obviously more gifted and just bullied his way to the top

[@filipeisabelinho3425]

@@voiceofreason2674 It's a fair point, but I disagree, I believe soft power is much better in the long run, and I would never trust a bully to actually do his job properly, a bully will only use his attained power to gain more power and influence, not actually benefit society as a whole. When you're ruled by a bully, that's called a dictatorship, which in my opinion, is exactly what's happening all over the world, we all live in veiled dictatorships ruled by psychopaths who want nothing but fortune and fame and fuck you and your problems. No, huh huh, I want a leader that earned his place for his skills and abilities, not because he used his power to drive others into the ground. I would NEVER trust someone like that in my personal life, why would I want him to rule a whole country? We need to stop being savages, we don't live in forests and jungles anymore, Power without any solid moral foundations is just is just corruption. Until we stop eating each other alive, we are no better than wild animals.

[@voiceofreason2674]

@@filipeisabelinho3425 see Im into this dude Fourier who said that any group under 1600 people there will clearly be a single person who deserves to be the group decision maker. And I agree with that. But he didn't earn that power he just deserves it cuz he's the biggest and smartest or the best combo of that. Now I'm small and not particularly clever cuz I make a lot of wrong decisions but I'm not gullible. I see a lot of people get tricked by hardworking losers in power. Now how do we fix it? Good old fashioned bullying put these corporate geekazoids back in their place and let the smartest dude on ur high school football team or a Chinese bureaucrat call the shots

[@filipeisabelinho3425]

@@voiceofreason2674 I just wouldn't trust the guy who steals everyone lunch money because he can to be the king, that's all. The moment you decide to use your power to throw down someone who is ALREADY below you, you're a bully and a coward and I ate those guys for breakfast at school, I see anyone abusig their power, they had to face me first Guess what, they were all cowards, you worship cowards, you deserve to be ruled by the tyrant you so admire.

[@filipeisabelinho3425]

@@voiceofreason2674 you're insane. Sorry for the ad hominem, but I think you're just a sub who wants to be dominated by someone bigger than you... It takes courage to push someone weaker than you around x'D you're nuts, get back on your meds old man, your voice of reason has become senile.

[@DanTalksGames]

While I agree with what Zizek says, I think the problem here is he's arguing in good faith, whereas a lot of critics of toxic masculinity aren't. There are lot of people who use the 'hysteria' of toxic masculinity as an excuse to shut down all criticism, and that's because those people display the very problems that are being criticised: they conflate masculinity with unreasonable aggression, tyrannical drives, and the exact sort of conformism Zizek is worried defining toxic masculinity would cause. Courage is one thing. Cruelty and tyranny are another. Obviously some of the rhetoric on the left is crazy - I didn't know that there were pills being developed to counter 'toxic masculinity' specifically, if that's even factual - but the reality is, most people who critique the concept of toxic masculinity don't have the nuance Zizek shows here. That's why I'm sceptical of most critiques of it.

[@invidusspectator3920]

I think that toxic masculinity describes a certain type of male narcissism and narcissistic rage that has become very common place in the modern world. Others conflate it with actual courage, toxic masculinity is an unnecessary cowardess and unwillingness to change and get help to manage your emotions or to organize your life to use them as strengths. It's actually just agression and violence unhinged based on the tiniest slights to someone's character. That being said there's a lot of women also who have these traits, but much less than men on average.

[@Lambda_Ovine]

Every time I see one of your Zizek clip uploads and I read the title I go, "Oh no..." Then I watch the video and I go, "Oh, OK."

[@theshortestcharles6886]

Doctor: Okay Mr. Zizek you shouldn't touch your face, it could spread the coronavirus. How many times do you think you have touched your face in this conversation? Zizek: Yes

[@davidnally]

This should be way higher than this. Banging comment!

[@douglasphillips5870]

I don't have a problem with a clear definition of a set of behavior. It should be noted that based on situational context the same behavior can be healthy or unhealthy. I think the term toxic is offensive in itself, especially for a medical term. It asserts the unhealthy aspect to the behavior without regard to context. I was told I had toxic masculinity because I don't express grief very openly. When you're grieving to be told you're toxic doesn't help the situation.

[@rickestrickc-1375]

All that's behind it is the ideology to express ones spontaneous emotions according to the do-gooders agenda. These people are convinced if everyone gets feminized in his behaviour wars and conflicts would end. Toxic masculinity - what a load of shit promoted by those phoney psychologists . . . And the pseudo intellectuals buy it like warm , toasted pastrami sandwich 🙄

[@wkiv_wkiv3214]

Lol I love zizek he literally said domestic abusers should get the death penalty.

[@dusanbokan9553]

What happened to the Gary Cooper? Strong and silent type

[@Sallahaddin1]

I literally spent a minute reversing the first second of the video xD

[@manhvutran8940]

Why is he always dancing when he's speaking?

[@SirSaladAss]

Slovenia borders with Italy, maybe that's it.

[@madsleonardholvik3040]

I have noticed that he hardly makes any gestures or touches his face or snorts when he speaks his native language. I think the ticks are socially induced, like with people who stutter. When they talk to their pet or otherwise in totally unthreatening situations, they don't have a problem, other times they can hardly say their name. I think he is very brave to put himself out there or he might also be a masochist onto himself.

[@jesseperez5185]

This dude cracks me up how he snorts air and rubs it on face every few minutes. But I do agree

[@WhoTheHeIlCares]

Zizek in a nutshell

[@WhoTheHeIlCares]

Zizek in a nutshell

[@bennaarsongidi]

First two seconds .. sent chills down my spine

[@SkepticalJesusOfficial]

I can agree about the undue “medicalization” of social norms but he clearly doesn’t actually comprehend the concept of “toxic masculinity” (as he attacks a straw-man version of it)

[@oraz.]

Seems like without exception everyone countercricizing for it only makes the same weak assertion that critics just don't understand the topic.

[@SkepticalJesusOfficial]

​ oraz Yeah if everyone keeps noticing the same thing maybe there's an issue there? Imagine being told you're wrong about something and instead of educating yourself on the subject you just wonder why people keep telling you you're wrong lmao . I like Slavoj but he openly mischaracterizes what Toxic Masculinity is in this very video. Toxic Masculinity are negative social traits that have been erroneously ascribed to gender. It has nothing to do with males not reaching out to others as he claims, one can be an independent individualist without having any toxic traits. Things like "Men don't cry", "Only pussies don't want to fight", "I don't want to catch any Feels", these are all traits of toxic masculinity. It has nothing to do with aggression itself, but how men are encouraged to express aggression in toxic ways (toxic meaning detrimental to both the individual and those around them). He is flat out wrong in his claim that this is "courage" and that it is necessary by conflating all acts of assertiveness with those which are toxic. Nobody needs to be toxic and there's nothing courageous about being needlessly aggressive. Do you have a better understanding of the topic now? If so, can you steel-man my argument to show you comprehend it?

[@SkepticalJesusOfficial]

Zu That’s what the term seeks to exemplify, that these traits have nothing inherently to do with gender but that there’s a faulty notion in the zeitgeist of society of what masculinity should be (that certain normally toxic traits are “good” when men do it). But ppl just see “toxic” next to the word “masculinity” and jump to the conclusion that the assertion is all masculinity is toxic. It’s unfortunate, much like “white privilege” should have been called “majority privilege” to avoid a lot of misunderstandings. Surely at some point as a man someone has hoisted upon you the expectation that one must be stoic and not express emotion in what would otherwise be considered normal and healthy ways (ie “Men don’t cry”, “Fighting is cool, talking is lame”) otherwise you are less “manly”. This idea normally isn’t applied to women, in fact the toxic expectation of women is to be overly-emotional but subservient. Of course in reality masculinity has nothing to do with emotional distance or being violent, these are toxic traits that were folded into the expectation of masculinity. One can show sadness without being a wimp, and one can be aggressive without being violent, these are still masculine things.

[@ARealLemon]

@@SkepticalJesusOfficial I know this is 5 months old but thank fuck that ONE person in the comments is talking sense

[@briennethemaid]

@@ARealLemon Some people are too in love with Žižek and forget to have independent thoughts I guess. I enjoy Žižek but he has... moments, and this isn't the only one. I feel like he is trying too much to play the devil's advocate in the hope that he is developing some innovative theory, but sometimes he is just plain wrong.

[@theuserofthename841]

I like how he at 1:04 takes his extra moment to spit on the hand^^

[@TankMarko]

Can anyone name one thing zizek is wrong about? Honestly his opinion is always correct.

[@SkepticalJesusOfficial]

Well he's wrong about what Toxic Masculinity is in this very video, so almost always correct :p

[@apokos8871]

he just said he supports the death penalty. if you dont see how this is wrong from every angle i dont know what else there is to say

[@TankMarko]

@@SkepticalJesusOfficial what is toxic masculinity then?

[@TankMarko]

@@apokos8871 Well no I don't see it as wrong in every single way, do you have moral issues with that? Because i can easily proove to you why that is a more moral sentence than life in prison.

[@apokos8871]

@@TankMarko regarding Jesus' comment, you can find the textbook definition of Toxic Masculinity online. regarding my comment, there are many arguments about the death penalty but the two most obvious are 1)what happens when you find that someone was innocent (statistically, 4% of the people executed in the US were later found innocent. we dont have the numbers for China and the other countries) and 2) do you really want to give this much power to a judge that could be biased/serving an agenda? John Oliver did two very good pieces on the death penalty and on lethal injections, you can find them here on youtube.

[@thegoldensealion9463]

I think he is right in the sense that toxic masculinity is not a medical condition, but a social condition. While it is directly caused by hormones and biological causes, these biological conditions are caused by social and cultural conditioning. It is similar to depression in the way that depression may be caused by serotonin imbalance, but this serotonin imbalance is caused by social and cultural conditions. It can be realised that material conditions determine social conditions, and material social conditional reality determines individual consciousness.

[@dainos7_0_13]

Antigona was written by an Athenian man. Not the greatest example.

[@GlitzPixie]

I don't think most people argue that it's a medical issue or that masculinity itself is toxic... the idea is men in particular are socialized to adopt harmful patterns of aggression etc. because these behaviors are considered "manly" and the pressure to conform to standards of masculinity are a big part of the problem

[@Conn30Mtenor]

I don't think that it was ever "manly" to beat your wife and kids. It was never acceptable- people avoided talking about it or intervening in what was seen as a private affair. In some cultures it's almost "OK" but I came of age in the late 70s and early 80s- we knew it happened in certain families but nobody ever gave it a "thumbs up".

[@shrivatsankchari1729]

I really want to take him seriously but his mannerisms distract me from what he says

[@poisonivy2298]

"when the wise man points at the moon, the fool stares at his finger"

[@effinsheet]

You forgot the "I CAN'T BELIEVE HE SAID THIS (not clickbait)"

[@walteralvarez4611]

"Toxic" is not a term to be applied to humans.

[@nuntalops]

From which speech is this clip taken? Please let me know

[@tvbasura2]

I think that the message is good but I couldn’t finished the video , I start to experience a big level of anxiety and I start to look for a handkerchief in my room.. 😬😬😬😬

[@4455matthew]

I don't mean to use a platitude or simplify things, but use your reason: sometimes it is toxic to act like he describes, sometimes it's not and it's called for.

[@garylake1676]

It appears that Jordan Peterson did indeed make an impact in Slavoj, a debate that I very much enjoyed.

[@musicloverkathy]

Zizek is pure joy

[@bigfloppywithasideoffries6547]

at first i was kind of like "ehhh this seems to be some exaggerated anti-idpol shit" but i kind of get what he's talking about. it is very important we watch very closely how negative attributes can be used to put down radical thinking. ANYTHING can be co opted and used as a tool of revolutionary disintegration by capitalism. gotta be careful

[@aclaylambisabirdman6324]

Like all things in life, it’s contextual and based on restraint, of course some men take it to unhealthy extremes but others don’t use it at all, we need healthy men, not no men at all.

[@paulbrown3639]

And so on and so on *sniff sniff splutter* 'sniffs fingers, wipes nose' *sniffs*

[@Bradley_Lute]

It's a shame he has this issue because his ideas are very interesting

[@Bradley_Lute]

@Lasse Givoni i'm terrible. I can barely get through 5 minutes. I got through the whole Jordan Peterson debate though! It was entertaining

[@klausjochen8244]

The APA never called Toxic Masculinity an Illness and i cant find anything about medication against it anywhere. The APA isnt medicalizing toxic masculinity, they acknowledge male socialisation and ways it can harm (young) men as something relevant for psychologists working with (young) men. They issued Guidelines for working with men and boys. They already did the same thing for working with women and girls in 2007.

[@oraz.]

I think the point is about how much are you emphasizing this single narrative about male socialization. Is that too exclusive a focus versus other things. How genuinely external is the rhetoric and how much does it rely on a premise about dispostion which could be it's own trope. Or is it a double standard (I'm personally finding it hard to believe a very similar approach was taken with women about negative characteristics). I think these are legitimate concerns and think Zizek is making a similar qualitative comment about pathologizing characteristics without getting too hung up on the use of the word illness.

[@Hans-tr6dx]

the patriarchy functions way better than any other system

[@AdvocatusThei]

Masculinity is something that is culturally associated with men in the present. It does not mean that women can't exhibit masculine traits, nor that women (real or fictional) in ancient times who exhibited masculinity were in fact men. Thus the example of Antigone is completely besides the point.

[@coleharding9439]

Going against the grain, perhaps it’s the “sigma” in me... But when he read of the definition of “isolating yourself and hurting yourself and others...” that’s way different than courageousness, that’s basically things like alcoholism and the mental health problems men are trying to talk about more. We feminize mental health by assuming that it’s basis is in communication and this is urging us to look out for the absence of communication. I think the APA was setting a guideline for what a “masculine cry for help” may look like. Men process emotions differently and their suicide rates are way higher. Usually it’s the isolation and injurious behavior that leads to things like a mans suicide, drug abuse or behaviors that lead to imprisonment... I think it’s trying to steer people away from “people come to you in times of crisis, so look out for that.” Actually no, men won’t “come to you”. They isolate and become destructive, look out for kings too. I think it was formed in an intention of allyship, not criticism.

[@matthewcaldwell8100]

I've been skeptical of the rise of neurologicized explanations of political ideology. They tilt so easily into a grotesque two-step away from analysis and towards essentialism. It's a trick that's been tried by Bolsheviks and Maoists alike.

[@blackbuckcreations2064]

It feels like I can smell some spit

[@owenskipsey6630]

10/10 opening mouth noises

[@MK_ULTRA420]

Wow I didn't know Slavoj Zizek was alt-right!

[@oraz.]

It's alt-right if you don't defend academic clinical feminism?

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@oraz. Yes, it literally is alt-right and misogynist to not defend academic clinical feminism in [CURRENT YEAR]. Slavoj is now considered a toxic incel in the eyes of the feminist left.

[@shamusson]

@@MK_ULTRA420 He got based and redpilled.

[@MK_ULTRA420]

@@oflux7610 The feminist left is a subgroup of the left. I'm not grouping them they chose to separate themselves from the economic left so that they could yell at the white man.

[@TeaParty1776]

Antigone valued her own mind, not tradition. Z is so bizarre that every once in a while, he says something rational.

[@mmikaojONE]

Can someone please make a gif of the first second on loop

[@antonpacifico8907]

I know that he's going for the APA but can someone explain him what is toxic masculinity?

[@jojomojojones]

This is not about Toxic masculinity at all and zizek should know better. Toxic masculinity is about shaming men into conforming to a certain set of behaviours and attitudes even when those behaviours and attitudes are bad for the man himself. But don’t take my word for it: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxic_masculinity

[@oraz.]

Everyone knows this definition. The point is it's a double standard and becomes it's own trope to characterize male disposition as a way of defining what their problems are especially the primary. People aren't wrong to notice the arrogance of that approach. A wikipedia page doesn't really change that.

[@jojomojojones]

oraz wrong. Every time you treat toxic masculinity in this way, you reinforce the idea that men need to be a certain way or they’ll be considered defective. Just let boys and men be however they like.

[@oraz.]

@@jojomojojones You are talking right past me. Isn't characterizing behaviors as defective exactly what you are doing? As in emphasizing characteristically male behavior itself as a negative pathology in place of focusing on external experience. That is itself arrogant and a form of typecasting.

[@jojomojojones]

oraz no, I’m not. Be whatever kind of man you want to be and let other men be who they want. Men don’t need to be brave. Men don’t need to be stoic. The main thrust of the discussion here goes something like “They won’t let us be manly!” And that is toxic. The idea of toxic masculinity is the entire culture has expectations of what a man is and failing to live up to those expectations labels one a defective male. That’s a toxic attitude. You really should read the link I provided because this video isn’t about getting rid of stereotypes, Zizek is trying reinforcing them.

[@oraz.]

@@jojomojojones Everyone understands this basic idea you are describing, it's not that novel or insightful. The problem is you are actually overemphasizing the extent to which it's a defining issue which is exactly what a stereotype is. You are overemphasizing the starting premise under the rational of breaking a stereotype, which is essentially accepting it in an intellectualized clinicalized form where it becomes it's own trope. Zizek is talking about the danger and arrogance of focusing on this one emphasis.

[@pootis4986]

Antagonizing men doesn't makes them better, it makes them more toxic

[@nabilyassin1742]

damn he ain't wrong, we need real men to fight evil, rather than castrated children.

[@nabilyassin1742]

​@@oflux7610 yeah I know, But I feel that men's version of "self assured confident mature behaviour" is just being a real man. What that means is complicated, but I think we most probably have some similarity in that idea. in the end we can both agree that people need to grow up at some point in their lives (both men and women)

[@Peter_Kropotkin]

In SOME cases this is courage. But toxic masculinity is a real thing, and it's a male issue. For example, when talking about male mental health, it is often blamed on women for men not being able to be expressive, though it is entirely the opposite. It is men who tell other men, usually younger, that they need to be emotionless, unless this is aggression which is entirely expressed.

[@willnill7946]

Then go be an emotional buffoon, or stop hating what you can’t be

[@rulde]

What’s exactly is the “ cure “ here ?

[@AkwaIbomDoll]

@@rulde the cure is to dismantle the patriarchy which sets out rigid accepted behavioural codes defined by gender. Men SHOULD be able to cry and be expressive without judgement, the same way women SHOULD be able to experience liberation without societal backlash. until the system no longer exists both men and women will continue to suffer, confined to outdated modes of thinking and behaviour 🤷🏽‍♀️

[@whatdothlife4660]

This is the most infuriating orator of all time. He has great ideas but I just can't handle it.

[@RichArchilles]

Haha, nose go *sniff sniff*.

[@jaredwernell8753]

My main issue is that slavoj is fundamentally missusing the term. The broader context is that toxic masculinity is an obligation that’s rammed down men’s throats. That they have to act that way. That if they don’t they won’t be considered men. There’s nothing wrong with the behaviour in and of itself. But when you can only act in that way it is damaging. Which is why we must combat toxic masculinity. Not the behaviour but the expectation and demand of it above all else.

[@doomguydemonkiller]

Toxic masculinity does not exist

[@davidd854]

The thing is that 'toxic masculinity' is such a vague concept that it is not really clear what it points to. In that sense if you want to use it for anything useful it's an useless concept. However, it carries a strong implication, namely that part of whatever is referred to with the term 'masculinity' is toxic. This is the real aim I think, to put down men and discourage them from acting in ways that the users of the word see as masculine.

[@-pat-9429]

There's no such thing as toxic behaviour or toxic masculinity, because it's the analysis of data from an specific form of critical thinking [ideological frame]. The concept of "toxicity" is negatively charged, and only relevant in relative terms. And it's specially dangerous when such concept is used as a means to introduce, and normalise, the passivity of a gigantic sector of the working class. Hope one day you can wake up from your centers of indoctrination and met real life workers, men with nuclear families organised in syndicates.

[@aliceinwonder8978]

Is insulting people conastantly not toxic? Maybe were just arguing semantics at this point. But "toxic masculinity" or "toxic behavior" are antisocial behaviors which are often labeled as masculine (one-upmanship, degrading women and minorities, taking power, disrespecting others, etc)

[@clacclackerson3678]

You never hear the word "cowardice" any more but by God it's everywhere.

[@lZY8d70P-sTP]

you are making zizek out to be a reactionary with these titles, but thats simply not accurate

[@oraz.]

Why it's just him being quoted. Maybe you just want him to be sympathetic to institutional feminism.

[@lZY8d70P-sTP]

@Zu he is an explicit feminist, he literally says kill men who beat women in this vid. he simply refuses and challengrs overly simplistic narratives like sjws are evil or courage is toxic masculinity.

[@lobotzindiegoantesnesslope6004]

where is the original video??

[@toastynik]

Never shake this mans hand

[@anthonybrett]

Slavoj Zizek is starting to really grow on me. I like this guy! Ive got a funny feeling extreme leftists only like him because of his accent...but once he starts talking he's actually very rational, which means they'll end up hating him!

[@Itisjustasaganow]

I'm the only one who wants Slavoj in Joe Rogan show?

[@DaDaDo661]

Joe wouldn't be able to hold a conversation with him

[@poisonivy2298]

Zizek is too cool for Rogan tbh

[@keithkeithkeith9874]

You can keep that mic.

[@antoniopena5613]

Even though I'm interested in what he might have to say I can't watch past 1 minute of his interventions because of how freaking nervous he makes me with his tics.

[@werewolf4358]

I understand completely, however it is something you get used to over time. I used to be horrified every time I saw him speak, but now I think it has a certain charm.

[@regularsherlock6237]

I don’t see what exactly establishes certain ‘toxic’ behaviours as being ‘masculine’ in the same circles that would advocate a completely post structuralist line on any issue pertaining to women. In other words would a man’s toxic masculinity be considered something else if he transitioned to female or began identifying as female but never changed his toxic attitude or actions? Cant help but think this is fitting ideology to reality as you go along and not the other way round