Sleeping in my Van Illegally Rather than Pay for Campsite - Why?

[@JoshMainka]

Who else breathed a sigh of relief when Tom raised the book and it wasn't "Chasing Awe" by Gavin Hardcastle 😊

[@stevemoore-vale5632]

I honestly thought it was going to be. 😂

[@jasonmach6548]

I was kind if hoping it was going to be Chasing Awe. Or at least Thomas’ own book followed by a, “There’s a link…in the description” 😂

[@kaischmidt730]

I thought that book was mandatory?

[@ThomasHeatonPhoto]

hahaha. he is relentless with that book😅

[@russellbaston974]

Gavin Hardcastle did a book called Chasing Awe? I didn’t know that. 🤪

[@theonlywoody2shoes]

You are not “sleeping overnight”, you are simply arriving ahead of time and waiting for the right time to complete your work - better to arrive a few hours early (traffic problems etc) than be 10 minutes late.

[@Davidmccombs]

Thomas, one of the reasons I enjoy your photography is because you share your best work and your mediocre work. There’s not a lot of photographers who are willing to share it all, but that’s what makes you stand out. You’re also a great story teller and that makes some of your images come alive.

[@dougheizenrader2280]

The oft misunderstood life of an artist! Keep doing it your way, Thomas. Your work is truly worth the effort and sacrifice!

[@ThomasHeatonPhoto]

Thanks, Doug. appreciate it 👍

[@spikehodge5412]

I'd love to know more about the specifics of the law that says you can't sleep in your Van. - Can you sleep in a car? Is it vehicle specific? (e.g. only sleep if your vehicle is under 3 tonnes) - Is it illegal to sleep during the day or only at night? - Is it the "sleeping" or "just being there at night" that is illegal? - Is this law in contradiction to postered advice to take a beak if your tiered? - Is it down to local bylaws rather than national regulations? - And perhaps the most important question; what is the penalty for sleeping? Is it a traffic offence that goes on your license as an endorsement or a civil offence of some kind. Sorry if these questions have obvious answers, but I haven't lived in the UK for about 30 years and clearly some things have changed! Back then I was driving trucks and if you *didn't* pull over and sleep you got fined.

[@petewarby7158]

Unless it's private land and specifically says DON'T park on the land... shares illegal about it? I genuinely thought you could do that quite legally... no?

[@SteedDigital1]

@@petewarby7158 in the us in some places I've passed there are specific signs for no overnight use at all for land the tax payers are paying for. more likely these rules exist because people are discussing assholes who leave a mess and ruin it for everyone else than some power hungry turd in charge making it against the rules. people suck from top to bottom of all positions in life and at least around where I want to go PNW you are very likely to see restrictions or outright ban of use for public paid lands after dark.

[@1unisol1]

It's illegal in Germany to with one exception though: "Fahrtüchtigkeitswiederherstellung" (gotta love that language). What it means is: Restoring the capability to safely operate your vehicle. Basically you are allowed to sleep in your car for a night, if you feel you are to tired to continue your journey or make it home safely. England might have a similar exception.

[@drachenfliger1368]

Didn’t knew that, I would have don this here, thought it’s not lol

[@FranzFridl]

I'm bound to my couch after a ski accident and you let me enjoy the great out doors

[@willhoyer]

Guy Tal's books (and photos) are fantastic and are definitely best read slowly to allow his wisdom to sink in.

[@emgee44]

Your van makes total sense for what you need and what you do is photography AND art! There answered that one, done, simples.

[@xcaliber6002]

I love that pano shot so much. the light was so interestingly draped on those trees.

[@JJ-fromDK]

at 2:26 that hit me in the feels, such a stunning picture

[@carlreid4161]

The silhouetted island loved how subtle the light was on the trees behind the island and the golden ratio positioning the island in the pano, magic! The light on the fells and the shadows in the gullys was awesome in the third shot, the pastel shades in the first fine art you photogartist. 😉

[@IanSmithFotografi]

I enjoyed you discussing the struggle with art… I was given More Than a Rock for my birthday and a great read it is too!

[@bob_dubois]

always enjoying the calmness of your videos, the honesty and the impressive shots. Keep us bringing more of this, Thomas!

[@andrewhillier2734]

That pano... ridiculously good. So beautiful!!!

[@ltsnet]

The photos you have taken and shown in the video are definitely pieces of artwork. Thanks for sharing.

[@peterfritzphoto]

As soon as you read that passage, I ordered the book! Brilliant.

[@duncanwallace7760]

Your island photo is next level!!! As is the Grand California. I've had a Delica for well over a decade and am currently drooling over the Grand California. As for art and photography, I was lucky enough to be in Wellington NZ when a professional photographer's competition was being judged. You could sit in and watch the judges. There were some photos which I would have considered 'throw-away', which the judges loved. One was a bird coming in to land on a bland looking shed, all a bit blurry and not in a very nice pose in flight. It really taught me that photography doesn't have the be 'picture perfect' to intrigue viewers. It made me think of taking images which I would not have considered previously.

[@stefan9015]

According to my understanding of the law in Austria, Germany,... it's only camping when you put a chair or table in front of the car. As long as you sleep or spend time in your car and parking is allowed, no one can say anything. No one can prove that you don't need this break. After all, you're not allowed to move a car if you don't feel fit enough. Of course, using an awning and armchair is not allowed. But where there's no plaintiff, there's no judge ;-)

[@mikemanning8253]

That pano at 3:58...just wow!!! I find myself wondering the magic you could have done with your GX617 for that shot. But wow, that shot is awesome. May be a calendar shot?? Thanks for taking us along on this adventure Thomas.

[@ThomasHeatonPhoto]

I thought the same thing, but I'd need a longer lens for that type of shot, but yeah, a bit of Provia 🤤

[@caypasha]

you're such an amazing landscape photographer, I just wanted to let you know. everytime I watch your videos I get reminded of the gap in our skill levels and how much more I have to learn and improve as a photographer. you inspire me to chase excellence in my work

[@allandavies1187]

Love you, Man! Still, my very favourite KZbin Photographer whom I have followed from the very beginning. Tremendous location loving those steely grey and colours. And what a view...

[@Caroda_band]

You are an artist Thom. Not all photographers could produce that second island shot. Beautiful, just beautiful!

[@DMDBSJD]

One of my first steps in my Lightroom workflow is to "Create Virtual Copy". That way I have one raw file that I can use to recreate the scene as closely as I can remember it actually being. And another with which I feel free to take all the poetic license I want. I think we should be limited only by the amount of storage we have for our digital files. As always, love your work Mr. Heaton!

[@antonoat]

This my friend demonstrates your committment and effort and exactly why you currently have over half a million followers, great film, inspiring and very worthwhile and enjoyable viewing, mega images too! Cheers.

[@ThomasHeatonPhoto]

Thanks a lot. that's a nice comment to read.

[@antonoat]

@@ThomasHeatonPhoto Well Tom, I think it's very easy for some people to enjoy your films and not actually have a grasp of the huge amount of effort and dedication which is required day in day out to produce content whilst also actually being a working photographer, you have my admiration and respect, keep smiling buddy.

[@MarkRomine]

That blue tone pano is just delish! As always thanks for sharing!

[@WildPhotoShooter]

That campsite at Seathwaite, borrowdale is really only a field , there is a toilet but no showers and last time I was there (when I went up Great End) the fee was a very reasonable £5 for a full day and just a little more to camp overnight. Brilliant, and you can access several great peaks.

[@terryallen6688]

Thomas, get over it, you are an artist. I paint landscape and love it because I can paint my own interpretation of that landscape. It is not a whole lot different how you interpret through the lens.

[@craigallenphotography]

I love the Ansel Adams saying "The negative is the score and the print is the performance." I have recently started doing everything in B&W and really exploiting the light that is there. It's a ton of fun and I feel like my images are much better. I also remember seeing several prints made by Ansel Adams over the course of years and they literally looked like two different scenes of the same mountain. He was known to go back to old prints and print them differently as his techniques changed over time. I do draw the line at adding or replacing objects/sky, but I have no problem cloning out that obnoxious post in the background :-). Take care and I look forward to your next adventure.

[@madebychristie]

Thomas Heaton you are most definitely an Artist

[@rafai1281]

If an image shows what was there -> documentary. If an image shows what you felt -> art. For me art is expression of feelings.

[@indexpictures]

making art and documentary mutually exclusive is far from ideal

[@ThePurpleHarpoon]

I could take a photo of my big toe, and call it art. Art is a piece of work you wish to share, that can be displayed in some form. Even a snapshot of a fork resting on the edge of a plate could be considered fine art.

[@rafai1281]

@@ThePurpleHarpoon If you put a label on a cat with a "dog" sign - it is still a cat.

[@ThePurpleHarpoon]

@@rafai1281 Correct. If you put a dead cat in a fish tank, you can call it art.

[@rafai1281]

@@ThePurpleHarpoon Calling your own work art is pretentious. It's a matter of how other people see what you do. I'm not sure how an audience would perceive your cat installation.

[@robertfleckenstein5031]

Hi Thomas. When we are in the field everything is reflecting light, well some things transmit it like the sun, light bulbs, and flashlights, but this light is traveling and passing through our lens and onto our film or light sensor. This light from different ares in a landscape can have different intensities, like light from a shadowed area is less intense than light traveling from the sky or sun which they say is "very bright". These brightnesses can be measured with a light meter. A camera has a very unique ability in being able to actually change the intensity of traveling light; opening your aperture the more bright these "luminance's" become, or a longer shutter speed the same effect, and vice versa, closing your aperture/less shutter speed the less bright. It's actually an added or subtracted effect I suppose but we can call it changing the lights intensity. Filters can also have an effect on changing light intensity. Now there in lies the art of photography, being able to chose what intensity of the light we want to portray in our final print. More than that changing the lights intensity of a scene can create different "emotional impacts" in your final print to a viewer. You know how your large panoramic black and white image creates a dramatic response due to its contrast; that could have been done with less exposure and more development bringing the "higher" areas "up", expanding contrast. This is done perhaps without thinking about it in (Photoshop); in the digital world. There is a "catch" with this process in that more "detail" is recored when longer than "normal" exposures are made, and vise versa but I don't want to get into that now. I learned this from Ansel Adams who developed a system to very accurately control his outcome. Most of his later prints demonstrated this control by doing what he termed "departing from reality"; his visualization and final print "execution" was always different than the actual scene, something which once learned and calibrated is such a joy to use; I know why he wanted to share his techniques with the world through his work books. It makes me think that he was an astute student of the (Camera Obscura) movement. Bob.

[@RememberNineEleven]

@ 1:38 - A great location - look behind you, ;) or rather at that amazing reflection on the lake line .....

[@fotogfitzfoto412]

In general it is NOT illegal to sleep in a vehicle overnight in a public car park in the UK. Provided you are not under the influence of drink or drugs (i.e., would blow below the blood alcohol limit) and the vehicle is not causing an obstruction, and is parked in accordance with local byelaws and the land-owner's stipulations, you may pretty much park and sleep where you wish.

[@ScottymanPhoto]

Thomas, this is certainly one of your best videos! Indeed, your honest and sincere attempt to accurately describe the ART of landscape photography is very refreshing. All too often people are reluctant to share their true unabridged thoughts and experiences! Keep up the great work my friend!

[@Flash685.]

These views! Omg wow thank you so much for sharing these beautiful breath taking images! Some would never experience these if it wasn’t for people like you

[@gladysperrier4270]

Thomas you might like to checkout the aeropress for your fresh coffee. You won’t have to worry about that cone of filter paper folding in.

[@PamelaMarshall]

Our park 4 the night scheme is restarting in Scotland. Park from 6pm-10am completely free of charge in certain carparks dotted around Scotland. I already have my favourites and can’t recommend it highly enough. 👍🏻

[@tompetersphotography]

Great video mate, that first shot was beautiful. The light just makes it’s

[@Velidra]

Guy Tal, and his book, are some of the more underrated and unknown treasures of the photography world (At least the "Photography social media world", because he chooses not to engage with those mediums) I'm currently slowly making my way through the same book at the pace of about a chapter a week, taking my time to inwardly digest each chapter as I go. I'm also looking forward to picking up his new book sometime soon, "Another Day Not Wasted".

[@davidgilmore3064]

Hi Thomas. Great video. Faithful follower. I've recommended Guy Tal's book to fellow photographers with much enthusiasm. His "Another Day Not Wasted" is equally impressive. I go back regularly to review his essays and take away new messages every time. I'm sure he would appreciate you mentioning his writings and I am happy to endorse both you and he at any time. You've both contributed much to the art of photography and I for one, am most grateful. All the best and happy shooting. Cheers, Dave G.

[@dalerobinson8456]

The struggle is real my friend, stay the course.

[@hexualdeviant]

Second shot is an absolute stunner, good job.

[@anthonyplancherel8274]

Excellent video...and that island pano. What a stunner!!!

[@gladysperrier4270]

Your justification regarding preventing unsocial behaviour is so true and it would be outrageous if you were to be fined considering your responsible approach. Besides, you are doing us a major services by sharing such georgeous images to inspire us to enjoy the great outdoors.

[@davidalexander-watts6630]

So pleased that you’re thinking about your art and not just the technical capture of an image. I think you have something more to say and I’d like to hear it and see it in your work.

[@BriManeely]

Man! Thom, that pano is gorgeous! Such a perfect balance in composition and lighting. Bravo!

[@findermanimages]

Great set of images to kick off with. Also, as an old VW van owner, and campsite avoider, I'm with you on that aspect, too. As for art v photography, these are just labels that have no real affect on me or how/what I shoot. First and foremost for me is the pure enjoyment of getting out there and taking photos... for my own personal pleasure. Once I get that bit right, the rest simply doesn't matter. The only determining factor that I can see (in my very amateur experience of such matters) is whether you are working to a specific brief or not and what the intention of the specific photograph is.

[@netalexpg1]

Love, love that second image (panorama)!!!

[@dferdon153]

I thought the island picture was superb and so well spotted, and as somebody below so aptly put it wow.

[@martiipeacock4698]

Great shot of the atmospheric Island, camp fire looked cosy.

[@maxencelemoine4190]

I don’t know the laws in my country (France) but I think it is less restrictive. But as you said, as long as you don’t disturb, block, destroy and you are responsible, so I get your point and I would do the same. Love the first shot ! Thank you for your work

[@Globetrotter-1]

France is perfect for sleeping in your vehicle and I've done it for decades. I usually buy an annual fishing card, and this allows you to erect a ⛺ or bivvy in beautiful locations beside rivers, lakes and canals across the whole country all year.

[@mohamadmo9050]

The photography is excellent. You are a artist

[@paulus0109]

Thomas... to me this was one of your best video vlogs! The photo's are portfolio worthy, a bit of phylosophy is on his place (it's what i have been wondering myself), the hike, the enjoy of being on yourself and with others, enz... But the coffee looks like the ditch neer my house man! Thnx, Paul

[@sophiah0822]

Honestly man your images are top tier! Keep on doing exactly what are doing to get quality photos like that.

[@northstarcreative]

The Book of Trespass is a brilliant read if you haven’t already. I don’t think it’s illegal unless it says so, but if the landowner asks you to leave it becomes illegal. It’s just the haves and the havenots as always. They are shit scared of people with dreadz and their dogs on string making a home there. I sleep in my car for the same reason as you Thomas and I leave no trace, and personally I think vanlifers and boatlifers have brought excitement and interest back to getting outdoors to a wider audience.

[@hostynphoto]

Loved the first image. Beautiful soft colors. Seeing how a good image is made, is the best motivation for me. Keep up the good work.

[@annamoon023]

As always, love the subject matter - and the beautiful shots you captured. You are an artist and you are responsible with your parking spots and practices so you do you!

[@jonstout7635]

Beautiful morning shots and each location = art!

[@TheRetrokong]

Really loved this video! As someone who has binged pretty much all of your videos over the past 12 months, I can safely say this is one of my favourites. Also, the first shot is incredible!

[@denisenoble4010]

Stunning. Camp sites are so last year lol. Just keep doing what your doing, you have a good eye good luck .😊

[@denisenoble4010]

hello again

[@obiwanmartyn]

It's not illegal to sleep in your vehicle unless you are under the influence of alcohol or drugs, it only becomes illegal if you are violating parking restrictions where you decide to park but legally in the UK you can park on any residential street and sleep for the night as long as there are no local restrictions in you doing so. In fact there are many lay-bys you can park and sleep at in the UK. There are also the 24/7 service stations where normally you might get told you can only sleep there for 3 hrs maximum but its easy enough to move to the next one.

[@juliangreaves4727]

More than a rock. Best photography book I’ve read since Ansel Adams’ books back in the mid 80’s. Really made me think and in many ways, liberated my photographic art to be exactly what I wanted it to be. One day, I’ll make my van posh like yours Tom. Trouble is, the wife will then want to join me 😁

[@brianmckeever5280]

Exceptional pano sir! Very painterly to my eyes. As for labels, own whichever makes you happy. If anyone thinks photography isn't art, let's see their images. There is art in finding pleasing compositions. I'm not sure I care for the opinions of those that do not feel the same way and I don't have 510K followers. As Yoda might say, "My own council I will keep on what is art."

[@paulappswildlifeart]

Lovely video and big fan of your exploits Thomas, and so know that mic thingy lol, been there a few times, cheers Paul

[@phynx2006]

I was surprised you weren't reading Gavin Hardcastle's book "Chasing Awe" 😂😂 entertaining video as always👍👍

[@rosssayer6524]

Really enjoyable Thomas, love the great outdoors. I must say that 2nd image of the small island is outstanding. Thanks for sharing

[@amalieemmynoether992]

The second image is magic😍 I think of my own photography as the artistic equivalent to a 2year Olds drawing🤣

[@rayhewitt2206]

Another enjoyable video Tom, especially liked the pano image, also I enjoyed your contribution in the Amateur Photographer this week.

[@peterwolf3001]

well done for shedding some light on this issue. as a life long van dweller (40 + years ) I have seen my fair share of people who's nose is put well out of joint by my lifestyle, which like yours is based entirely around my work. if I tell them I am offended by their outrageously decadent and wasteful use of the worlds resources by living in a house with a carbon footprint many times worse than mine (of which I am proud) they just don't get it. and the thing is its not harming them in any way. the reverse of course is not true.

[@Biscuit761YT]

That morning pano was tremendous

[@greggScutum]

The panoramic image is 10/10

[@dan_mills__791]

I recommend Sean Tucks book called The Meaning In The Making. An excellent read for any creative.

[@davidskinner274]

Hi Thomas. It makes sense to take the risk to stay over in a car park. Have you ever had a person of authority wake you up and ask you to move on and give you a ticket? Nice shots, so it's all worth it. Chers from down under.

[@emanuelbief7088]

What si fine art? I never know…your videos are so peacefull

[@harrythomson1577]

Thankyou Tom for another informative and encouraging video... you always seem to inspire me and give me a reason to get back out there with the camera... really appreciate it 🙏

[@codyrasmussen9798]

I think this is something I dont think much of when it comes to where I live in Alaska. There are campsites you have to pay to stay but there are also tons of places to park off the road and settle in for the night and I am sure it's not illegal (if it is I have never seen it enforced) There are also lots of camping areas in rural areas where you don't have to pay and the people who do stay for the most part are decent enough to clean up their area and trash they find. Again, its something I've never actually thought about. Fantastic video Thomas as usual. Cheers!

[@Glyn69]

Very refreshing videos you post all different thanks for posting

[@JamesWingham1992]

Stunning images as always, very much needed a calming video after today. Thanks for all the great content

[@umgameresquisitao]

The Art x Photogtaphy topic, i think about this years already, and i always come to the same thought. Photography IS art indeed, but the most important is... WHO CARES? Why talk about this? Why the label of something is so important? Why dont create another label for several types of art? And thats it for me, i think photography is a type of art, such as music, painting, drawing, dance... but i trully dont care anymore. Great vid as always ♡

[@SasidharPamganamamula]

Love that first image - those rocks really pop out at you given the softness of the background. RE: Art vs not art - I think part of what makes photography different to other artistic mediums is its relationship with objective reality. I think that relationship is crucial to the medium and what it represents. And while we can bend and stretch this rather tenuous bond (in this age of Photoshop and Luminar), I would be wary of breaking off from reality completely. If you clone out huge chunks of the image, drop in a fake sky, increase the saturation to 1000, you can call it art but, in my book, you can't call it photography.

[@ThomasHeatonPhoto]

I always struggle with this very debate. I suppose it comes down to intention. appreciate your comment 👍

[@chipfreundnc]

From my point of view and experience you are how you define yourself. Say you are an artist, make the art you love to make, and you are an artist. My portfolio includes highly representational images and completely abstract work. If you are a photojournalist you must be faithful to the scene, that is your job to capture the story of that moment. An artist on the other hand has an obligation to be faithful to one's own creative vision and nothing else.

[@Aratimb]

If someone comes asking; just say you're resting in the van because it's dangerous to drive drowsy. Never say you've done something "illegal" and show it. just... pointing out there😅

[@edupuertasfruns]

stunning places

[@chrisparker5684]

Hi Thomas, Great video! think that island might have been Peel Island, inspiration for Wild Cat Island in the Swallows and Amazons books.

[@robertcroft8241]

I have been travelling around Europe and England and spending summers in Minden Germany for 25 years and never knew it was illegal. Never been in a campsite other than winters in Morocco.

[@allansisson355]

The panoramic is gorgeous.

[@allansisson355]

@Text me on telegram👉@ThomasHeaton

[@allansisson355]

Hi Thomas did you just ask me to contact you?

[@Mark-qn9xl]

I have been a fan of Guy Tal's work for many years and totally agree with his philosophy regarding creative photography. Personally I practice both types, factual representation of what was there and also an interpretive element. It totally depends on the image. Although I don't have his books, I have read several of his essays plus I have a Lenswork publication in their Monograph series of his called "The Least Impossible Way". An absolute stunning collection of images. I hope we get to see some different images from you inspired by this, although that first image of the lake and stones of yours is stunning.

[@davebryer6133]

The two images at the lake were absolutely fantastic. I personally think photography can be art, a snapshot not so much but thought out photograph is art. Unfortuenly for me my photos are like refrigerator art, you know the art from your 3rd grader that gets hung on the refrigerator.

[@mortenthesbl5535]

This Is exactly why Sweden is so great - you are allowed to camp in camper or small tent almost anywhere for one night. if its someones field or forrest you sak but in general you are allowed. How great is that!! Love Sweden and the fact that its just over the bridge from Copenhagen.

[@ItsAMbutyoutubechangedmyname]

I think as a Swede I took "allemansrätten" for granted even do I knew it was a strange concept in most of the world now since I have left Sweden and haven't been back for about 13 years I must admit I miss the freedom of what you just said about putting up a tent almost anywhere or walk freely almost every where

[@Jabber-ig3iw]

@@ItsAMbutyoutubechangedmyname if you actually read the rules it’s nowhere near as free as people like to say it is, but it’s still better than the UK, that said the UK is a much smaller place with a lot more people, it would be carnage if people thought they could camp anywhere.

[@mortenthesbl5535]

​@@Jabber-ig3iw I just read them if we keep to the comments Tomas has about parking his camper and staying one night each place its exactly whats legal in Sweden. Making it great for this kind of visit in nature :-) But I do agree that its a bigger country and fewer people. Also Swedes are a people og great awareness toward nature :-)

[@key2adventure]

Beautiful pano, and I like your camp style, which is easier to practice in the Nordic countries, where it normally is legal.

[@johnkrohn1282]

It is art…. When it inspires the same feelings as a grand piece of art it proves the point. your photography often invokes those feelings. Art certainly. at its best

[@Wklambert]

Thomas, I know you take photos for you. Just as I take photos for me, and so on. But, when you showed your first two images.... Something has changed. It's almost as if a spark got brighter. I don't know if you were in a slump... Slumps usually are indicated by bad images. I've never seen you post a bad image. But, something about those first two images... Did you start reading that book before you made them? They are simply gorgeous. The compositions perfect. Bravo sir. Yet again, you've outdone yourself!

[@WildlikeDestination]

Oh my goodness, that pano shot is damn beautiful!

[@sanclewphotographic]

I totally agree with your sentiments and the articulate way you put it across.

[@MichaelNielsenStudios]

Another wonderful presentation. I understand the dream of upgrading to an actual camper… but you’d lose all that flexibility and “stealth”. Tough trade off. I guess the dream would be to have one of each 😜

[@johntheexplainer]

The two quotes which come to mind about art are 'Art is the artist's response to the world' and 'Art is any activity not necessary for survival'. I wish I could source them appropriately.

[@stalevilhelmsen3192]

And I who thougt at first that you were reading Gavin Hardcastle's book "Chasing awe"...

[@georgiewanders]

Extraordinary good photography The intro was out of this world 🌍 some great life coaching advice for photographers too 👏👏

[@EssoSteve]

Thomas Heaton always keeping it real! very nice!

[@MrKrupp42]

Art is effort that is appreciated - ( quote by me ) love your stuff Thomas and it is most certainly art !!

[@Ijusthopeitsquick]

So emptying a septic tank for a home owner is art?