Small Machine Shop : My Xometry Hourly Rate

[@MachiningandMicrowaves]

Interesting to see how well Xometry is working for you. I bought my Syil X5 so I could avoid using services like Xometry, (or unreliable overseas shops or expensive local shops) and speed up my antenna system and microwave component prototyping work by doing all of the development work in-house. I don't imagine for a second that I'd be able to make enough income from operating inside Xometry's MaaS to be worth my time, but having the in-house capability for small-scale manufacturing runs of high-value technical parts is making me much better money than if I had to get all the parts from a CNC broker, then fix the problems with the parts, do the assembly and test, then find out the parts need a tweak. Having the Syil in the shop has been transformative. I'm lucky in that I purchased it using spare cash from a pension, so no loan servicing costs. That alone changes the economics immediately.

[@iggie8144]

Best of luck to you with your shop. The Syil is a great machine and have had one for years now.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Thanks for the support! What kind of syil do you have?

[@iggie8144]

@ X7 LNC.

[@holo_4k962]

Very informative, thank you

[@boonefreeman5384]

i have a VF2 in my garage... signed up for xometry and bro, not a single job on the job board i could even come close to making any money or getting it done in time... i looked for months to find just 1 job i could take.... cant imagine trying to get through 15 + jobs to then start maybe seeing better jobs. I would like to become a premium partner!

[@AscendedTechnologies]

My perspective is a bit skewed. I have a really tiny lathe and made pins and plugs for $50-$500 all the way to premium requirements, did maybe 3-4 mill components. But once I got to premium, things really really accelerated. I see people saying they have to donate 15 parts to Xometry so that xometry can profit and how crappy it is. In all reality, before you're audited for premium, you're grouped in with the Dirt floor 1942 belt driven clausing shops. Once you pass premium, it's a different world. Not saying it's perfect, but it's definitely full time self employed level I should make a video of the physical differences between partner levels. 🤔 I would definitely shoot for premium

[@rcdieselrc]

@@AscendedTechnologies There is no way you got 15 jobs doing "pins" on your Sherline and made money. Which lathe anyway? Below you say you don't have one. Today I saw 7-8 jobs. A couple lathe jobs. Nothing even worth feedback on price. There is no money in "default group" jobs unless nobody picks it up and it's fed back into the system. (I think mostly repeats that people don't take). In onboarding they literally tell you to take jobs at a loss (give away material you have on hand). Most jobs are a week or less lead time. Onboarding didn't even tell me to feedback pricing until I was 3 or 4 jobs in. I was on a tech hour a while back asking how to get better jobs and they just said keep working at what they give you, don't take stuff you don't make money on. One of the shops said they didn't make money on the first 40 (four-zero!!) jobs they took. Some people get profitable work, but I'm not seeing any. Or they group parts that simply shouldn't be grouped together. So often there are parts that need a couple non-standard thread gages and offer prices are 10% of gage price. I haven't done Xometry in a month, because the work has been so bad. The first job I took something easy in plastic for the $132 they offered it at, 50 small turned parts. When it came back the second time it was offered at $360. This gives you an idea of how bad their offer prices are and they get snapped up faster than you can check if you have material and tooling before accepting. You can't clear up any drawing discrepancies before taking a job. They told me, just take the job and ask for clarification after. I did that once, such a waste of time. I'm not getting paid to do design review. The "not interested" button gets a lot of use. It's rare to see a proper print and designs that would pass engineering standards. Anyone who got to premium before May 2024 got off easy, it's not like that anymore.

[@antsman331]

@boonefreeman5384 Don't waste your time with Xometry. They're only good to fill in the gaps between jobs if you already have material on hand. You can't even get material as fast as they want the parts, and you don't have to be good. You can turn on half ass work, and they just fix it. Look at audacity micro, that goof dose nothing but Xometry and he dosnt even know how to check flatness. Look into being a supplier for our national labs. Most of their work is R&D with some small production runs. My first job as a supplier for the labs paid 75% of my machine. That was just a 50 pice aluminum job. If you need info, let me know.

[@steviefive-o4328]

Thanks for sharing, cool to see! We do some parts for xometry but all additive work.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Thanks for the support! What additive technologies do you do? I have been thinking of getting into additive. I'm not sure what it entails

[@steviefive-o4328]

@@AscendedTechnologies With Xometry, exclusively Stratasys FDM, we have 5+ machines are that usually going non stop and we have some industrial SLS machines for our direct customers, which we are putting a lot of focus on, growing our internal company vs doing xometry jobs, but the cashflow from xometry definitely helps a lot.

[@jakubrapant74]

Hi, I’m from Germany. At the moment, I’m a Formula SAE participant (so, a Mechanical Engineering student) and I’ve completed an apprenticeship as a cutting machine operator. I’ve always wondered why some parts are so cheap. Based on my calculations and the general rule of thumb, you should earn about twice as much as you’re being paid for the same work. In Germany, a solid engineer earns roughly $60 an hour (gross). To live well, reinvest, and grow safely, you’d need to make approximately $120 an hour. Of course, this also accounts for our higher taxes and insurance costs here. What’s your opinion on my thoughts?

[@dejanvanevski4399]

Prices that you mention are not real because there is competition from other countries and thats why prices are dropping fast.Hourly rate you mention is for prototyping parts or for 5 axis,you cannot achieve that high prices even in germany.Serial production even have lower prices no matter where you are.

[@jakubrapant74]

@@dejanvanevski4399 i agree and disagree. How much does a new 5-axis CNC machine with good features cost? Around 500,000 dollars or euros? This means that if you want to write off the machine within 10 years, it will cost you about 4,200 euros per month. That’s approximately 26 euros per hour based on a 40-hour workweek. So, you should aim for an hourly rate of at least 50 to 60 euros to cover the cost of the machine and your own income. But what about the other expenses? The workshop or production facility? Electricity costs? Software licenses? And let’s not forget: taxes? These factors should definitely be included in your calculations to ensure your business is profitable in the long term.

[@dejanvanevski4399]

@@jakubrapant74 Hello,yes calculation for 10 years that you made is not real,because it is based on suppose that machine will be all the time busy for 10 years and that is not possible.I think that real price is around 40 euros,also our US collegues are strugling this all the time with competition from asia.Today new cnc machines are for companies that already have production and not for beginers,it's simple not worth buying new one.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

I find it very difficult to quantify static shop rates for a new shop. For an established shop with a large customer base, they can incrementally increase prices to control workload and increase profitability. For a start-up shop, it's a different story. Im my experience, you can set a $120/ hour shop rate. What tends to happen is your current customer base pulls back, cash flow gets tight, so you pull into a variable billing model of "I really need work" / "Back fill work" / "Let's bill $300/Hr we don't need it." In the beginning, it's extremely hard to set static rates. With my circumstance in particular, I can afford to drop to $40 / hour. This is because my overhead is low, and I don't have much debt. This is a "save the business rate." I had to do this in the beginning and clock 30 hours straight. Now that my customer base has grown, I can regularly bill $100 / hr. But trust me, before that base is established, expect to work work work in a really uncertain environment or $40-$300/hr feast of famine. Hope this helps, this was my experience.

[@max_eley]

Thank you for your insight!

[@BluCoastPrecision]

Just accepted my first job on xometry!!!!

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Good luck! Let me know if you have any issues, I can give some advice. [e-mail]

[@trailhead6251]

Looking to get into running my own garage shop with xometry. Any tips for just starting out, machines to get, sourcing materials, keeping any stock? Currently a manual machinist/toolmaker, but I want to run my own ship as well in my free time.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

My personal tips for starting out is solving the "sales" aspect. How are you getting work, how much do you want to work, and what do you need to earn. I went with xometry because I knew they had immediate work to keep me afloat. As for machines, that l really depends on target customers. I have a 3 axis mill and I do fine, I could use a lathe and wire edm. The mill keeps me in business. I have a rather expensive Syil X7 LNC mill. Sourcing material : For short lead times I use Mcmaster a ton. I'll also use online metals. For longer lead times I get quotes form top metal supplier ls in my state. I only keep the end cuts left over from jobs in stock It's a fun time, it can be stressful if you try to grow too fast. I would say, it's absolutely necessary to get into cnc to make it work full time

[@HandsonCNC]

Interesting.. did you include your programming time in those numbers?

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Yes, I did. I had to delete the video section because It violated NDA, showing that much of the part geometry. It was 10 minutes to program

[@spazzywhitebelt]

​@@AscendedTechnologies 10 minutes? That seems pretty quick. Cad -> cam -> Adjusting things

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Operation 1(Face, 6x Contours, 1x slitting saw contour) Operation 2(2x Helix bore) Extremely easy programming operations. Tooling presets come from my plastic speeds and feeds library. Thanks!

[@chadmaurer4002]

@@evognayr that is really not that unbelievable for someone that is complainant and doing low complexity jobs. I am sure more complex jobs do take more time. But if you have a good tool library and use templates, your programing time can be reduced to minutes. I do it all the time

[@GLA2001G]

Hello, I’m thinking of signing up for xometry but I don’t have any iso certifications. My question is do you have these certs and if you do is there any chance to make this kind of money without iso certs? Thanks in advance and awesome video btw.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

You don't need any certs. Shoot for premium partnership and xometry will help you develop a small QMS system. In some instances, xometry will pay for you to go ITAR

[@GLA2001G]

@@AscendedTechnologies Got it, thank you!

[@JesseSingley]

Ive done 48 jobs on xometry and have a 98 success score but i don’t get offered jobs at the prices your making. How do i get higher paying jobs? Im in PA as well.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Oh sweet, email me. Maybe we can meet up some time. Are you a premium or standard partner? Did you make the QMS system and get audited by xometry yet?

[@LightOfGodMfg]

Why did you choose LNC over Seimens? I know the LNC is single phase and Seimens is 3 phase. If you started over would you still choose LNC? I for sure am going the route of the syil x7. But so far my plan is to get a phase perfect performance(30 hp) converter. I am just curios if you think its a better investment to just get the LNC and stick to single phase. I planned going to 3 phase converter route so I had it ready for when I inevitably in the future get more machines (more then likely syil x7 or L3).

[@AscendedTechnologies]

If I had the funds, I would have gotten the Siemens 3 phase. If I did get the 3 phases, I would have needed to pour time and money into a 3 phase converter, 3 phase pannel, wiring ect.... My philosophy always ditches perfection or procrastination, I go for fastest materialized results. That being said, my biggest hurtle was just getting started. I ditched all the 3 phase calculations and planning and jumped at the LNC for the simple fact that I could plug it in and go and start producing. If you have the funds and the time, I would for sure go for the siemens. I started my shop on 8k, so I needed to pinch pennies and get busy. I'm jealous of all the siemens owners. Such a good control, with nice torque, motors, and drives.

[@reeves29456]

Did you deduct material costs before calculating hourly rate?

[@AscendedTechnologies]

I did not sadly. I used bar ends so it was technically free for me, but I should have done the estimated material costs for everyone else

[@snoopsnet8150]

Who supplies the stock, and whats your machine and tooling overhead?

[@AscendedTechnologies]

My machine is extremely expensive on my loan term. I have 32 months on $52,000 (My decision) You can get 60 / 80 month terms with $99 / month for the first 6 months. My machine overhead is $86 / day or $1728 / month. (9 months left until it's paid off!!!!) The stock is factored into the job price. Most of my content will be around showcasing the earned labor hourly rate. The tooling on this job was $0. I used endmills from jobs months ago. Most of my tools for aluminum and plastic last hundreds of hours. Material on the job was $0, I took these two jobs because I had bar ends laying around. The material cost for this job set, if you had to purchase, was around $50 I aim to have my shop earn $14,000 / month net revenue with xometry and standard customers. I give myself $4,000 / month. After all my business bills are paid, the business has roughly $7,500 net profit per month. Hope this helps!

[@snoopsnet8150]

@AscendedTechnologies thank you for taking the time to give the extremely detailed breakdown! It looks thoroughly thought out, and hopefully with the new administration coming in, we'll be seeing more jobs return to the US (assuming that's where you're from)! I currently run my Haas TM-2P and ST-30Y at a definite loss, but that's because my main business is fabricating and operating soil sampling robots all over the country, which we do about 1,000,000 acres per year. I'd been considering adding on more outside fab jobs as a side business as the main business has stabilized with solid profit and given me more bandwidth. This gives me great information to work with, much appreciated and good luck!

[@christof563]

I have a different experience with Xometry. I'm in g"Germany and I completet 4 jobs for Xometry so far and made like 50+ offers for jobs. A lot of times the material costs more than the job pays you or you habe to do 60.000 parts for 4.500€ (turning).I can't compete with prices people in Turkiye make. That's a problem with all european platforms so far.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Oh wow, so you're saying the income disparity between countries is high and that is causing impossible competition for higher income countries?

[@HuskyMachining]

I love Xometry but they used to pay a lot better. I started with XOM in 2018 and they really helped me grow my shop.

[@HuskyMachining]

@@AscendedTechnologies idk what you talking about here but I still love and use Xometry. Its not for every shop but the shops with lower overheads can make decent money on Xometry.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

My apologies, I accidentally replied to the wrong post lol I agree, I understand why people have issues with the platform. It's great for guys like us. my shop rate isn't all that bad with them.

[@andrewnelson3714]

Does these hours include programming?

[@AscendedTechnologies]

I had a section about programming, but I had tocedit it out because it violated some NDAs. Yup, this includes programming. It only took around 10 minutes

[@davidbell4986]

The jobs you'll see are there not because they can't find someone to do it but because people are trying to cheap out. Good luck.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

It's working for me. Might not be for everyone. I'm 8 months into full time @ average $75-100 / hour. I do see prices for simple jobs that are really high. Maybe it's because I'm quick idk. Thanks!

[@marksanders4815]

I made some money with xometry in the beginning but it quickly became a huge waste of time with little or no profit. Spent more time bidding jobs and not getting them than it was worth. Most of their pricing wouldn't cover the material. Xometry is a joke. Pound the pavement and get real jobs. Xometry is a race to the bottom

[@alexlaurent2967]

I'm quickly losing faith in it. I read everything there is on it and thought I was going into it with low expectations but I honestly didn't think it was going to be this bad.. yesterday there was an aluminum extrusion purchase part that needed modifying on my job board for $374 and when I checked the supplier that was listed on the p.o. the extrusion itself was $750.. most of what I see is either drawn by someone with zero understanding of manufacturing and would require a sinker to actually make or it's a 1 off part that you might be able to make a hundred bucks on but then it needs anodizing or black oxide and I'm going to get charged minimum batch for it.. this weekend I'm working ot at my day job instead of working in the garage because it pays way better.

[@marksanders4815]

@alexlaurent2967 I think they give you a couple of good jobs in the beginning to get you hooked for a minute and then screw you more and more as time goes on. If you have a piece of scrap laying around that you can use it may make you beer money but you can't run a business like that. Pound the pavement and you're going to make real money without the stress. I got excited at first but then I started feeling like a real idiot.

[@rcdieselrc]

@@alexlaurent2967 That's exactly the kind of offers I'm seeing. Anything worth doing is gone before you can check material and tooling. Most work is a week or shorter lead time.

[@antsman331]

I used them my first year. Once I was shipping directly to the customers, I was dropping my cards in with the parts. Turns out one of the Xometry jobs i did was for an R&D department at the University of Nebraska. They found my card and had me quote the same parts. I double what I made with Xometry. They said my price was considerably lower than what Xometry charged them. Now they send me work regularly.

[@joshualegault1095]

We made almost a million dollars in just a few years off xometry. They were better than most of our earlier customers. Kinda miss doing all the crazy jobs for nasa and spacex through them. Their complex work pays really well. They must wait until they can trust you till they start letting you take it.

[@bltventure]

soon as I went premium I dont see many jobs that I can handle, all 5 axis or crazy materials

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Strange. I'm in the shop currently. 3pm here. Working on a 17-4 stainless and 1018 steel order from xometry. $2,600 order, $350 in materials

[@rcdieselrc]

How much is Xometry paying you to advertise?

[@AscendedTechnologies]

$0.00 Xometry is just a single source of revenue, and I'm sharing my experiences. If they were looking for an influencer, I'm sure they would go for someone with a large following. I'm going to make videos on other methods of finding work soon. Xometry is just an easy subject for me to cover.

[@mooreevair]

​@@AscendedTechnologies thank you for taking the time to do so. I've looked into it and was quite discouraged. But being practical, we all know there's two sides to the coin. I see you answering people in the comments. Thanks for that as well.

[@jamieclarke321]

Subbed

[@tomek_FORCE]

I sometimes take the model from the xometry and calculate price by they own site and they are ripping us off tremendously. Maybe USA site is different but europe sucks. And it's runned 80% by Russians

[@AscendedTechnologies]

I do here some bad stories from the network outside of the united states. It seems like the income gap on the europe side is contributing so some countries inability to compete. Customers can click a box that requires jobs to be made inside the US, this is why we dont see the same disparity.

[@tomek_FORCE]

@AscendedTechnologies Yes we don't have that box. We don't even know with who we are competing. Because I'm from Poland and we are in bottom end of wages and I can't compete :)

[@everettrhay4855]

It’s simple 90$ per hr soft metals, 110$ per hr hard metals. Next.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

What about tolerances, complexity, and material conditions

[@t6nu69EST]

Xometry is the worst platvorm ever, no idea how you can make money by using their service.

[@AscendedTechnologies]

Works for some, others fail.