Raphael, School of Athens

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Smarthistory

Smarthistory

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 176
@ela7893
@ela7893 3 жыл бұрын
The way these two bounce off each other is so lyrical.
@oscarresendiz3014
@oscarresendiz3014 2 жыл бұрын
Dude yes! It's so captivating
@WouldntULikeToKnow.
@WouldntULikeToKnow. 2 жыл бұрын
Sometimes, and sometimes they cut each other off lol
@Rhiar
@Rhiar 6 жыл бұрын
I was handed the key to this room and got to unlock the door not long ago, early in the morning on a special tour with just a few of us and the keepers of the keys. I lingered and had the room to myself. Imagine the solitude with these magnificent works of art in the silence of early dawn; think about the centuries and the history these rooms have seen. It was overwhelming.
@stiannobelisto573
@stiannobelisto573 4 жыл бұрын
If you still have that key, then you are my new best friend
@brian.o3372
@brian.o3372 4 жыл бұрын
Lucky
@raisa_cherry35
@raisa_cherry35 4 жыл бұрын
Wow
@robin8706
@robin8706 3 жыл бұрын
SOOOOO envy of you
@Janonimo
@Janonimo 3 жыл бұрын
Alchemical room this is.
@MortredMaul
@MortredMaul 8 жыл бұрын
I love these videos. I'd wish there would be one for every single painting in art history. Those videos belong to the most entertaining ones on the youtube platform. Thank you so much!
@highfivebianca
@highfivebianca 5 жыл бұрын
i completely agree! I love the way they explain these they r so helpful
@evelyngray4804
@evelyngray4804 4 жыл бұрын
too cool for school. Hi Do you wish to chuckle so very hard ? Then search on google "makemelaugh8282" or "make me laugh 8282"
@susansantiago2696
@susansantiago2696 4 жыл бұрын
I love watching these videos. I wish they were available when I taught AP Art History ! Now that I have retired these videos refresh my memories. Thank you !
@daniellescott3198
@daniellescott3198 3 жыл бұрын
Hello Susan ☺
@anthonypeters8714
@anthonypeters8714 4 жыл бұрын
Excellent knowledgeable commentary of each part of the frescoes . The great painter Raphael with his exemplary paintings. A nice treat thanks loved watching it.
@danman7438
@danman7438 2 жыл бұрын
you guys are amazing for not wasting a second in these videos and filling them will spot on information! thank you god bless
@michaelhealy1590
@michaelhealy1590 Жыл бұрын
Wow! So much information about these works of art. Thanks for explaining in such an understandable way.
@filmaddict143
@filmaddict143 3 жыл бұрын
these videos are so addicting lol I have been watching non stop
@cruzmontes2595
@cruzmontes2595 Жыл бұрын
Moved me to tears with the sheer in-depth beauty paired with my admiration for those in this painting. This explanation teleported me to memory in my blood cells written by a ancient eye witness relative.
@fightpulpfictionclub
@fightpulpfictionclub 4 жыл бұрын
This was such a treat. Beautifully explained. THANK YOU.
@KidIndia
@KidIndia 2 жыл бұрын
This video is so inspiring. Thankyou for breaking down this incredible fresco
@kennedykiser557
@kennedykiser557 6 жыл бұрын
Love the unpacking of this frescoe.
@vishalagarwal4766
@vishalagarwal4766 3 жыл бұрын
Absolutely breathtaking painting, that. It was amazing to walk through the rooms on the way to the Sistine Chapel. Also, a lovely voiceover.
@hdskfneod
@hdskfneod 2 жыл бұрын
Thank you for doing this guys! I love love love you.
@natella2426
@natella2426 2 жыл бұрын
This channel deserves more recognition! I love your videos!
@darrinlawton2748
@darrinlawton2748 6 жыл бұрын
I was so fortunate to tour the Vatican after hours with a very small group.To see these art works in a relatively quiet atmosphere was truly amazing .
@WilliamLetzkus
@WilliamLetzkus 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, wonderful videos, Algrim. As a former philosophy professor I would explain "The School of Athens" to my Introduction to Philosophy students. Now in the age of multimedia instruction (I did that for an Ethics course for Nurses) I used multimedia movies linked to my textbook Ethics at the Movies..... But this Kahn Academy video explains the School of Athens so well, I could have used it.
@flaggerify
@flaggerify 7 жыл бұрын
No mention of Plato being modelled on Leonardo?
@abeopperman3910
@abeopperman3910 4 жыл бұрын
Excellent commentary by Beth and Steven, thoroughly enjoyed it!
@LORA0708
@LORA0708 Жыл бұрын
감사합니다❤🎉
@berjaboy
@berjaboy 7 жыл бұрын
I always thought Raphael's Plato was modeled after Leonardo Da Vinci, but there's no mention of it here.
@99davinci
@99davinci 6 жыл бұрын
it is leonardo da vinci
@men_del12
@men_del12 4 жыл бұрын
Wait a minute. Does this mean Raphael is friend of & with Leonardo & Micheangelo? That sounds cool just like there once 3 Greeks philosophical teachers as 1 gang.
@niamunt
@niamunt 4 жыл бұрын
@@men_del12 yup, da Vinci, Michelangelo and Raphael were contemporaries. Michelangelo could be a pretty difficult and competitive person and didn't get on well with them. But these three were considered the "holy trinity" of artists in those days.
@berjaboy
@berjaboy 3 жыл бұрын
@@niamunt Yep! Agreed.
@ashleycowen5104
@ashleycowen5104 3 жыл бұрын
@@men_del12 great observation!
@sarahkraku5354
@sarahkraku5354 7 жыл бұрын
i really this video it helps lot. thank you and plz dont stop. thank you. People like you guys are amazing.
@chrisl3372
@chrisl3372 4 жыл бұрын
Thank you Smarthistory for a such amazing video.
@mariomolinari5
@mariomolinari5 4 жыл бұрын
hello people from my class who were also assigned to watch it i love you
@f4upirate402
@f4upirate402 4 жыл бұрын
what school
@mariomolinari5
@mariomolinari5 4 жыл бұрын
pumkin night Cicero
@miisoma
@miisoma 4 жыл бұрын
lmao my art teacher told us to watch this
@jmove7647
@jmove7647 3 жыл бұрын
haha facts
@talesfromprincesajesa
@talesfromprincesajesa 2 жыл бұрын
these paintings are so beautiful
@carlesvera1107
@carlesvera1107 6 жыл бұрын
Amazing! Thank you for making this video.
@abrahamdong4897
@abrahamdong4897 3 жыл бұрын
It's astonishing, specifically after the instructions of the two researchers. Thanks for taking us in the art area.
@faiq7207
@faiq7207 Жыл бұрын
My favourite one is Averroes(Ibn-e-Rushd), the only Muslim philosopher here.
@kurosakiichigo28
@kurosakiichigo28 7 күн бұрын
Same My name is Averroès but i think in north America Averroes is less mentioned and study than in Europe.
@dawneabdulal-bari9313
@dawneabdulal-bari9313 4 жыл бұрын
beautiful! Helps quite bit as I have my Final in The History of Architecture this week ~ This location is on my virtual list!
@Fit_Philosopher
@Fit_Philosopher 4 жыл бұрын
this was amazing. i loved this! just got a huge canvas of the school of athens in my room from amazon. best decision ever. amazing to learn some of the symbology and history of it.
@nyazmustafa8994
@nyazmustafa8994 9 жыл бұрын
Thank You for Posting this amazing art work with explanation. excellent ,well done
@malerieglasser5276
@malerieglasser5276 4 жыл бұрын
Super helpful and informative, thank you!
@AnnabelleJARankin
@AnnabelleJARankin 3 жыл бұрын
This takes me right back to my study of art history in '71 - '72..... I specialised in the Italian Renaissance for 'A' Level..... Our teacher was the brilliant late Ron Parkinson (V&A) ... time travel!
@jmdza
@jmdza 5 жыл бұрын
breathtaking. amazing disection folks keep up the great work!!
@garypecoraro9293
@garypecoraro9293 2 жыл бұрын
Hoping and that someday I'll be there, and also Greece, the beauty of the renaissance, Ciao bella! , and not alone Moni! ? 💖...
@12potatos
@12potatos 5 жыл бұрын
Best analysis so far! Bombarded with information non stop!
@YumaKim
@YumaKim 10 жыл бұрын
Looking at it in person was SO AWESOME after having taken the course.. Too bad my school cancelled it this year :/
@Lambonius
@Lambonius 10 жыл бұрын
Nice! I've been hoping you guys would update your School of Athens video for a while now. Great quality in this new one!
@gabriellaxoxo2161
@gabriellaxoxo2161 7 жыл бұрын
Lambonius y
@harryheiligenberg9726
@harryheiligenberg9726 10 жыл бұрын
thanks for sharing, Fantastisc. I love it
@kamaralzaman369
@kamaralzaman369 7 жыл бұрын
I'm crying.
@claytonscampbell
@claytonscampbell 5 жыл бұрын
It would be interesting to bring into the conversation the cartoon that is in the museum in Milan for the fresco, which is in some ways even more powerful than the fresco. It shows Raphael's process of developing the overall pictorial concept, and is a fascinating work, feeling as contemporary as anything hanging in galleries today.
@marcelcilibiu227
@marcelcilibiu227 5 ай бұрын
HAI SA CAUTAM IN ISTORIA ARTEI DE TOT FELUL ,CATE FEMEI SUNT DE CALIBRU.ADEVARAT CA ELE STIU SA PRIMEASCA TOT CE-A CONSTRUIT ARTA IN IUBIRE PENTRU ELE,SA COORDONEZE SI SA CREASCA SI EVENTUL SA PASTREZE.
@eirvingdiaz7185
@eirvingdiaz7185 5 жыл бұрын
beautiful analysis! well said!
@zoefang4563
@zoefang4563 6 жыл бұрын
love this youtube channel!
@codedlAnguage
@codedlAnguage Жыл бұрын
Thank you God. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️. 🙏
@jamesondiep6609
@jamesondiep6609 3 жыл бұрын
Wow this is amazing! I love it so much!
@antoniobarbalau1107
@antoniobarbalau1107 3 жыл бұрын
Those kinds of paintings are beyond genius. The level of understanding and detail from all perspectives are just out of this world.
@katalinjuhasz641
@katalinjuhasz641 2 жыл бұрын
ERRE AZ ANTIQUE TUDÁSON NYUGSZIK A MAI TUDOMÁNY,,, ÖRÖKBECSÜ EGYIPTOMI ÉS GÖRÖG TUDÁS... ROMA CSAK MÁSOLTA, MA AZT KAPTAD AMIT AZ "51" ES KÖRZETBÖL LOPTAK, ÉS CSERÉLTEK EL...
@jakelm4256
@jakelm4256 Ай бұрын
8:43 Boethius (at the bottom left studying Pythagoras) was a Christian
@veronicalogotheti5416
@veronicalogotheti5416 2 жыл бұрын
thank you
@user-dr9gs6wh1k
@user-dr9gs6wh1k 3 жыл бұрын
So, you're telling me that we're sleeping on Raphael taking the most badass selfie of all human history....give that man an instagram caption right now...
@sauwurabh
@sauwurabh 3 жыл бұрын
I can't believe I watched this video for Free.
@pitaoxoo
@pitaoxoo 7 жыл бұрын
I love your videos!!!
@caramburu
@caramburu 4 жыл бұрын
I always love this fresco. Amazing.... We can mention everyone of the picture.. For example socrates, behind plato.. I love it!
@mkam5060
@mkam5060 Жыл бұрын
Beautiful analysis
@SEELE-ONE
@SEELE-ONE 2 жыл бұрын
Raphael painting himself in the back is the OG “I pulled a sneaky on you”
@Duongy94
@Duongy94 10 жыл бұрын
wasn't Plato in the School of Athens modelled after Da Vinci? Supposedly Da Vinci was a dreamer, perhaps can be compared to be similar to one another?
@PILOSOPAUL
@PILOSOPAUL 7 жыл бұрын
Yes, I've read in a Renaissance handbook that Da Vinci was Raphael's inspiration for Plato, apart from Da Vinci's other worldly way of thinking, the iconic hand pointing upward is an allusion to Da Vinci's unusual panting of hands (see the painting St. John the Baptist and sketch Holy Family with St. John) encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT2CYTtA2pl-D7i7fUpQXe4U7CYS2-_OFnKU7a4dfgP9CB99dMeGg phillipkay.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/1-mary-and-anne-jesus-and-john.jpg
@KattigFilm
@KattigFilm 6 жыл бұрын
Duong
@cosminblk8359
@cosminblk8359 5 жыл бұрын
Good point ! Also the "pointing up sign" can be seen in many of Leonardo's paintings (Thomas from "The last supper" for example)
@michaelpearson6746
@michaelpearson6746 5 жыл бұрын
🌹🌹🌹☔☔☔🚌🚌🚌 LAST BUS PARKED IN MOSCOW METRO© THE YOUNG FELLOW BY LEONARDO IS JESUS CHRIST.
@Sasha0927
@Sasha0927 Жыл бұрын
Few people, books, and quiet... Pre-heaven? 😍 The four branches of human knowledge are interesting choices. I would've taken out poetry and thrown in Psychology, but what do I know? lol. I love the allegorical representation of poetry and Aristotle's pose / foreshortened hand. Such a simple, yet powerful gesture. It's great that this meeting of great minds was celebrated this way.
@N1t_in
@N1t_in 3 жыл бұрын
Beautiful
@differous01
@differous01 7 жыл бұрын
Plato points to an intermediate realm of 'Forms' between man and the 'Form of the Good'. This (rather than Aristotle's 'Great Chain of Being') is the pattern of the 'Disputa' where 1. the realm of Forms becomes the Christian 'cloud of witnesses' [Heb12v1] - and 2. the Form of the Good is identified as the realm of God the Father.
@pjohnnyboy7
@pjohnnyboy7 3 жыл бұрын
This is aweosme
@gerald345
@gerald345 10 жыл бұрын
A good dissication of the work from Cezzane, what is good to have a look at are the divisions of ideas within the spheres of knowledge and the way they are represented. As a thinker i find it amusing to look at those "Black and White"(clear separation) concepts.
@whaltever1
@whaltever1 5 жыл бұрын
Foi dessa obra fabulosa que, Guns 'n Roses tiveram a idéa de fazer a capa da album ,Use Your Illusion 1 e 2.
@peroz1000
@peroz1000 10 жыл бұрын
In the Disputatio, do the two figures that have their backs turned to the Host represent actual historical characters, or are they simply allegorical?
@ginesdepasamonte
@ginesdepasamonte 6 жыл бұрын
Plato and Aristotle have just come from a tennis match and you can see that they are in dispute about a key point which Aristotle believes to have been "in" while Plato is calling it "out". They must have bet something on the outcome.
@treeoflife7151
@treeoflife7151 6 жыл бұрын
i bet betting is the source of human knowledge.
@katalinjuhasz641
@katalinjuhasz641 2 жыл бұрын
@@treeoflife7151 JAAA, PERSZE NADAL NYERT..
@Gktrkkts
@Gktrkkts 7 жыл бұрын
Great video, but i would expect to see all characters' analysis. Roughly there are 50 significant people in the painting.
@smarthistory-art-history
@smarthistory-art-history 7 жыл бұрын
That would be a very long video.
@jakqatif
@jakqatif 6 жыл бұрын
I see that Michaelangelo surpass Raphael in how seamless the subjects are in composition with each other that the paint looks like it's painted in one session. How amazing these artists are
@salez9830
@salez9830 4 жыл бұрын
Drawing from ancient pagan philosophers was not unique to Renaissance in Catholicism. Catholic tradition had at that time a long history of drawing influences from ancient pagan philosophers, especially from Plato (popularized by St. Augustine) and Aristotle (popularized by St. Thomas Aquinas). Especially during the Middle Ages when scholasticism was at the rise with it's concept of combining faith and reason. St. Thomas Aquinas calls Aristotle "The Philosopher" and didn't hesitate to openly draw some of his ideas not just from numerous Christian thinkers, but also from pagan, Jewish (Maimonides) or Muslim (Avicenna, Averroes) philosophers.
@katalinjuhasz641
@katalinjuhasz641 2 жыл бұрын
MÉG JÓÓÓ, ÉVEZREDEK TUDÁSA VOLT AZ ANTIQUE VILÁGBAN, KATOLICIZMUS.... POLITIKA, LOPOTT FILOZOFIA
@SalvatoreEscoti
@SalvatoreEscoti 9 жыл бұрын
this Painting was on the 500Thousand Lire Bill
@N1t_in
@N1t_in 3 жыл бұрын
What a great explanation
@mindfulmaximalist9962
@mindfulmaximalist9962 3 жыл бұрын
I finally know what to call the Greek meander. Thanks
@ikrakalkan5501
@ikrakalkan5501 4 жыл бұрын
Would you please add it to your videos in Turkish subtitles? 💐💐💐😊😊😊
@kevenquinlan
@kevenquinlan 4 ай бұрын
I've watched many videos on the total and various fresco of the work and it's, not surprisingly, a masterpiece. The school of Athens is probably most peoples favorite for a lot of reasons. It's funny b/c your average person will always know Di Vinci and Michelangelo but not many will know Raphael, who is in some opinions, better then the other 2. Michelangelo didn't produce many works b/c his took so long and Di Vinci dabbled in Alchemy for many years when being 'kept' by the Medici's. A Truly great Artist of the Highest Order.
@2ndAmndmnt
@2ndAmndmnt 6 жыл бұрын
Awesome
@CezrDaPleazr
@CezrDaPleazr 6 жыл бұрын
Quality video
@zadeh79
@zadeh79 8 жыл бұрын
RATIONALITY, ANALYSIS, CONSCIOUSNESS is more on the Plato side. EMPIRCAL THOUGHT, INTUITION, SUBCONSCIOUS is more on the Aristotle side.
@Reza090
@Reza090 2 жыл бұрын
This is great. The constant background noise seems to me to be unnecessary and distracting. 🙏🙏
@smarthistory-art-history
@smarthistory-art-history 2 жыл бұрын
Noise is unavoidable at times since we record onsite. Nevertheless we think it is important to look at the original work of art, in person, as we record.
@Reza090
@Reza090 2 жыл бұрын
@@smarthistory-art-history thanks very much for your work. 🙂🙂🙏🙏
@ninokavtaradze8993
@ninokavtaradze8993 5 жыл бұрын
great comments and review
@GangstaBoiiiiiii
@GangstaBoiiiiiii 4 жыл бұрын
Anyone know why Heraclitus’ box is at that awkward non perspective angle
@gavhix
@gavhix 3 жыл бұрын
anyone else watching this in school rn
@hailstheyoutube87
@hailstheyoutube87 3 жыл бұрын
ye
@Inkulabi
@Inkulabi 9 жыл бұрын
this is awesome....i had a question.are the 2 globes on the freemasonry pillars a reference to the zoroaster and ptolemy globes?
@jamespiper8173
@jamespiper8173 3 жыл бұрын
Why might Raphael have chosen to depict both Classical figures and contemporary Renaissance figures within the one painting?
@kylethwaits9155
@kylethwaits9155 7 жыл бұрын
Can anyone tell me what's in front of Pythagoras on that chalk board
@crispulomadrigal4153
@crispulomadrigal4153 3 жыл бұрын
Sana naman po nilagyan nyo po ng subtitle
@allahcc666
@allahcc666 6 жыл бұрын
Regarding BC pagan thinkers on a par with godly wisdom was definitely a huge step forward taken by the Church. Maybe it was unavoidable that the Church should embrace secular ways of attaining wisdom, because, after all, these pagan giants could actually demonstrate their claims. But still, I think that some church people, who were also scholars, actually were impressed by their readings of Greek Philosophy, and assented that the god's word stood weaker in explaining the world. I see in this grand room that blind faith has started losing blood against reason.
@Sunicarus
@Sunicarus 5 жыл бұрын
Authentic faith never involves a sacrifice of the intellect. - Bishop Robert Barron
@johnisaacfelipe6357
@johnisaacfelipe6357 4 жыл бұрын
The church had a long lasting tradition of drawing from the works of roman greco thinkers eversince its creation. To the catholics, the works of the old were great tools in understanding the divine.
@katalinjuhasz641
@katalinjuhasz641 2 жыл бұрын
SZUPER, KÖSZÖNÖM LUCERNA, SZIVEBÖL SZOLTÁL...
@MadKingOfMadaya
@MadKingOfMadaya 3 жыл бұрын
*_Some say that the man in green and white pointing at Diogenes on the stairs is Alexander III of Macedon. I would like to build on that argument and state that the man Alexander is yelling at is his father Philip the cyclops. That's why you only see one eye. Alexander was not a great thinker like many in the painting and therefore his face is not shown but he is there may be as satire showing a spoiled boy reacting to a man who does not care about his riches and success and so the boy yells at his father, telling him that the man does not react to him. Alexander's success is solely because of his father much like many spoiled boys today and of course, his father was much smarter and therefore is allowed to show a little of his face as he points at Aristotle or Plato, telling his son "there's the man you should speak to about this". Alexander also wears green maybe symbolizing nature but it may also symbolize greed._*
@maverick333
@maverick333 10 ай бұрын
do any one knows the name of man on 7:49 of the video writing something
@احمدحارث-ق4ق
@احمدحارث-ق4ق Жыл бұрын
سؤال اللوحه تظهر يمسكون علماء لفريق كتاب فى ايديهم طباعة الورق فى أوروبا 1450ظهور طباعة غوتنبرغ قديما لم يكن هناك كتاب كان هناك كتابه على جلود الحيوانات او على البرونز او الواح من الطين اين مخطوطات اثينا الاصليه الحضاره المصريه اقدم من اثينا مازال عندهم مخطوطات من ورق البردى كيف اختفت مخطوطات اثينا وتبقى المصريه التى هيه اقدم منها ارجو الاجابه على هذا السؤال شكرا لك
@titancloud
@titancloud 4 жыл бұрын
❤️
@ytdanielle
@ytdanielle 8 жыл бұрын
Who is the woman that as Raphael is face front? It is Venus? Are the painter and the beauty the main theme of the image?
@MraDigims100
@MraDigims100 7 жыл бұрын
If I'm not mistaken, that's the philosopher Hypatia.
@jamesmichels8434
@jamesmichels8434 2 жыл бұрын
Great painter
@CleaClea5
@CleaClea5 Жыл бұрын
Plato holds Timeo but I do not see Aristotle' s book...
@smarthistory-art-history
@smarthistory-art-history Жыл бұрын
It's there, have a look: flic.kr/p/2jdYCh9
@CleaClea5
@CleaClea5 Жыл бұрын
@@smarthistory-art-history Thank you so much! Nichomachean Ethics, Ηθικά Νικομάχεια.
@toasterialeo
@toasterialeo 5 жыл бұрын
From a Christian view is this a remember of a pagan dead culture with the label of Christianity. The Greek and Roman Gods and their philosophy with a new name. Of course are masterpieces.
@katalinjuhasz641
@katalinjuhasz641 2 жыл бұрын
KATASZTROFA AMIT IRTÁL...
@suzanh7777
@suzanh7777 3 жыл бұрын
Thank God for the commission of Pope Julius II.
@richardpotter8390
@richardpotter8390 6 жыл бұрын
You missed hypathia of Alexandria..
@naakosei1145
@naakosei1145 Жыл бұрын
Constance Brown brought me here
@earlthepearl4062
@earlthepearl4062 5 жыл бұрын
Where is Parmenides in the painting!?
@SuperGreatSphinx
@SuperGreatSphinx 4 жыл бұрын
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parmenides
@smarthistory-art-history
@smarthistory-art-history 4 жыл бұрын
Thought to be the standing figure between Pythagoras and Heraclitus (lower left).
@marvinthemaniac7698
@marvinthemaniac7698 3 жыл бұрын
I wonder if Raphael and Michelangelo personally knew each other.
@katalinjuhasz641
@katalinjuhasz641 2 жыл бұрын
OLVASS...
@babybutchie
@babybutchie 2 жыл бұрын
The distinction between Pythagoras and Euclid seems rather forced.
@smarthistory-art-history
@smarthistory-art-history 2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps this offers insight into the ways these ideas were then understood, rather than how we might now view these schools of thought.
@barbarazielinska8968
@barbarazielinska8968 2 жыл бұрын
Rafael w najbardziej Mlodzienniczych Dziełach Dostrzegamy Błysk Geniuszu. We wczesnych Madonnach Widzimy Spokojną idylli A Nie Ruch. W młodzieńczych Pracach Przejawiał Czuły Zmysł rysunku. Kontury nigdy Nie Są tat nerwowe Jak u Botticellego. Linia u Rafaela służy Zawsze do określenia Zawartości i plastyczności Danego Przedmiotu, Zaokrągla się Miękko,wygina W Delikatnej Melodii
@radoris7112
@radoris7112 7 жыл бұрын
some one know the title of the book hold by socrates and the one hold by its disciple.
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