Smash Up: Backtimers and Stasis Review

[@connormako1987]

It seems like they could’ve just renamed burying and used that. I think there is plenty of room in the current design space to make new factions. I’d much rather see burying, dueling, and madness get more spotlight then for an entirely new mechanic be added. There is already so much complexity and so many cards lost in rules purgatory that it just seems too risky to be adding new stuff rather than cleaning up what is already there. If they had to add something new, why not something obvious like -1 counters?

[@connormako1987]

Also whats with blossom alpha bot and copy cat nonsense? It seems like they should just be revealed but not in play and just blanket have nothing work on them.

[@jujurinka6719]

I would much rather see old mecanics reapear (Even or espassially with just 5 out of 20 cards referencing it) Creating synergie possibilitys Then getting new complicated, boring mecanics and a faction that is only builed around this one mecanic

[@davehaynes9136]

I love the honesty. And yes, if you are Introducing a new mechanic, it should be used in at least 2 Factions in the set

[@skidawg22]

I agree. Stasis is a fun little mechanic, but should have been introduced to the game sooner. Hell, stasis could have made Time Travelers actually playable!

[@bcrossfire1219]

Time Travelers are perfectly playable with the right faction. Aliens come to mind, with Invaders that can be bounced back to hand and played time and again.

[@bcrossfire1219]

In MTG, they have a similar mechanic called Suspend that exiles the card with a number of time counters on it. Though exile was originally conceived as a harder form of destruction ("remove from the game,"), the "exile zone" has since come to be used as a holding zone for things like Rebound, Suspend, "jailing", etc. I think a similar "stasis zone" would be an ideal solution, here. Here's a thought: What if they try a new mechanic in the future where you leave cards in a suspended state and accumulate counters on them rather than deplete them? When you're ready to play the card, you play it and reap a reward based on the number of counters it built up (i.e., the number of turns you waited to play the card plus any extra counters you were able to place on it with support cards). This could be +1 power counters, power-capped extra minion plays, power-capped minion destruction, filtering, breakpoint reduction, etc.

[@spitfire4209]

If Stasis is the stand in for time travel they could have added it to Time Travelling Terminators for a second faction since that would fit the 80's movie theme.

[@samuelfriedbaum4450]

Burring, storing, and suspending all seem distinct enough to exist. Burring is telegraphed where but not what or when, and is limited to 1 uncover per tern normally. Suspend is limited in when instead, you don't know where it is going to come out, but you do know the turn it will hit, and it requires the player to try and set up multiple cards if they want optimal use of it. Storing seems to have the most play and inter play. The cards have to be triggered, but they can also be hit early. Yiu can hit multiple at ince, but it requires more set up woth the cards in your hand, and other people can more easily mess with it.

[@adameisbrenner6209]

Does anyone know if you can play a Titan from the Time-Traveling Car base ability? Would that be a legal play? Or would it fizzle when you attempt to play it 2 turns later? It seems to me it would work, but you would lose any power counters, etc.on it, according to p.9 and 13 in the big rule book regarding attachments being discarded when a minion (also Titan?) is placed somewhere, like being placed in Stasis.

[@cmjohnstable]

The BCR doesn't say to remove attachments when a card is placed somewhere, it says to remove attachments when a card leaves play; cards in stasis are still in play.

[@adameisbrenner6209]

@@cmjohnstable p.13 says, "when a minion is destroyed, returned or placed, discard any attachments it has." Clearly, a Titan is not a minion, but I'm assuming it probably follows the same rules. But then again, this is Smash Up, so you never know. 😄

[@cmjohnstable]

@@adameisbrenner6209 My apologies, I read through your referenced pages but didn’t catch that initially. That is a really good catch and points to the need for a consolidated/living rule book to know what things from the BCR do and don’t apply still. It is a complicated topic in general. One issue is that we have never before seen a card which is placed from being in play to somewhere else where it is still in play; typically only into decks, hands, and discard piles. So it feels to me like that rule in the BCR is a catchall safety net when the real event that should remove the attachments is the card leaving play. Another point is that cards in stasis do in fact have attachments, most notably stasis counters themselves! But also, stored cards for Letter and Help are also attachments. The argument would need to be that attachments are discarded in the transitional placement, with stasis counters as a special exception. I would be happy to discuss further with you if you want to jump on the discord

[@cmjohnstable]

Oh, for the titan question in particular, I personally believe that it does not work in its entirety, because cards in stasis are played as extra cards, and titans do not count as extra cards for Eliza. My thinking is that if you insisted on doing this, the stasis counters would come off as normal, and then the titan would not be playable from stasis and would go back to its titan zone in phase 5 of your turn when it would be discarded.

[@samuelfriedbaum4450]

I might be a bit biased because i like the setup for later style of play, but i like them. Stasis seems like a downgraded version of extra plays. If instead of putting something in stasis, you can just play it as an extra card it would allow for faster reactions and have even less counterplay from the other factions. Instead stasis gives you an extra play that the other person knows is coming several turns in the future. Hiwever I can see how people would find it frustrating. Unlike cards in the hand youbcan see it and know its coming, but cant do anything to stop it. It feels worse to see someone with 2 cards in stasis and 5 cards in hand than to see an opponent with 7 cards in hand with a faction that has multiple extra plays, even theough the later is more dangerous. As for if suspend is worth it, I can understand how smash up is having trouble creating new and interesting factions, and while i don't love solving it with new mechanics, this seems like one i will enjoy.

[@gamezilla345]

They literally just ported Suspend from MtG into the Smash Up engine, without taking the time to consider the ramifications of it, as Smash Up is, indeed, a very different beast from MtG. Plenty of other TCGs also have Suspend-like mechanics, but those are usually more elegant because 1) there's a more defined micro and macro structure to turns and wincons, 2) there's a more granular resource system, and 3) hand information is more of a resource. Stasis feels pretty sloppy. It's more mechanic bloat in a very mechanic-bloated game, and the inherent open-ended nature of the Smash Up engine as well as within the rules for Stasis itself (you /may/ play the unsuspended card??) makes the downside of putting cards on layaway into all upside. Honestly, if AEG wants to continue the Smash Up brand, I think it's high time for a 2.0 version. Update the manual of style for card effects, draft day 1 comprehensive rules, and start clean with proven winning mechanics, reworks of good ideas with questionable execution (duels), and leaving clunkers in the past.

[@cmjohnstable]

While I don’t necessarily disagree with your main points, just a quick clarification that may not have been perfectly clear in the video - if you have a card in stasis that has no stasis counters on it by the end of your turn, it’s discarded without effect. You very much do have to play the “unsuspended” card on the turn the counters run out, or lose it.

[@gamezilla345]

@@cmjohnstable yeah, use it or lose it is a buff All other versions I've seen has the playing of the card as a mandatory trigger- more options are always better than less.

[@cmjohnstable]

@@gamezilla345 that makes sense, I haven't played any of those other games. I will say in SU that playing an extra card has always been optional, and I *think* that compared to other games like MTG that there are fewer cards in SU which could directly harm you or backfire if forced to play them - very few Sacrifice style cards for example; similarly, destruction cards like Seeing Stars are allowed to target an ineligible minion in which case they just whiff. I can see it adding an element of strategy but I don't think it would curb anything about stasis in a meaningful way