Snare Comparison - Ludwig Acrolite vs Ludwig Supraphonic

[@TomDichter]

Thanks for posting this cool companion video. BTW, I believe that the supra has the imperial lugs and not the bowtie lugs? Anyways, great content as always👍

[@NickCostaMusic]

You're absolutely right, and they were staring me right in the face making, editing, and watching the video during the live stream. Appreciate the correction and my apologies on this mis-information. 🤦‍♂

[@weehudyy]

That was my first thought ...Luddie tragic that I am . I have an olive badge Supra 402 that I have had for 40 plus years ... I bought it 2nd hand to replace one I bought new in '75 that was destroyed in a fire ... Still my go to , despite a bit of a collection to choose from . I had a badly pitted late 60s 400 that sounded amazing but I sold it ( and suffered remorse )

[@Spagz]

Amazing how similar they can sound. Well, I guess amazing is the wrong word. The Acro seems to stand out at low tuning. The Supra, to me, sounds better overall, but I wouldn't care either way and don't think the crowd would ever be able to tell. Great comparison. Keep the nice Supraphonic at home and gig the bars with the Acro! I have a few Acros as I have mentioned and only one Supra but since the Supra is a 6.5 and the across all 5's, I can't trythus. But i have the bases covered! My 6.5 is my favorite snare of all.

[@NickCostaMusic]

For sure! Although I did say they have the same lugs in the video, they definitely don't. Acro has the bow-tie lug, and the supraphonic has imperial lugs. Just shows both being the same size shell made of the same material, the drums are going to be similar. Slight tonal changes due to the plating and number of lugs. 6.5 or 7 depth are my favorite too. Love the extra amount of body they give. You definitely have all bases covered having acrolites and a 6.5X14 supraphonic.

[@rhythmista7707]

Sold my 71 Acrolite 3 yrs ago to a friend who never used it. I asked him if he'd be willing to sell it back to me, and he did. I paid $180, which is $5 more than what I sold it to him for. I'm now a very happy man...😁💪

[@NickCostaMusic]

That sounds like a win-win for both of you - that's awesome! Did it still have the same heads and tuned the same way when you sold it to him?

[@JR-youtube]

Great comparison! My take: low to medium tuning shows the most contrast between the two, high tuning they begin to sound virtually identical.

[@NickCostaMusic]

A few others mentioned the same! Must be from the shells choking out then. In the tunings with the most contrast, did you have a preferred drum?

[@dilankarun9172]

Your channel gets me emotional, takes me back 40+ yrs, practicing with my drum teacher 🥲 You got a Ludwig Drumset, Zildjian Cymbals and a SM57 on the snare ? P E R F E C T ! Getting back to point, To all who say the Acrolite is "cheap" anything. Go check on YT, there's a video of a blind test of snare's in a professional studio. The listeners were all Pro drummers. The snare's tested went from the "cheap" Acrolites to the uber expensive. The Acrolite came in 2nd place, only bested by the $800 Sugar Poplar. Post pandemic, I've gone from one snare to about 20+ snares (Wifey not happy) Added a Ludwig BB (Brass edition), Alum Supraphonic, 😍A ltd Achrophonic)🥰 and just bought a special ed Ludwig Bluephonic. Now I got to buy an Acrolite after watching this !, Just like I bought Zild Fat Hat's after your Demo lol🤣 Keep up the good work Nick 🙏

[@NickCostaMusic]

Well I'm glad you outlined your experience with your old teacher with "Perfect" - otherwise, I was ready for it to turn 180 like the dude from whiplash😵‍💫🤣. You bring up a great topic too - in that video you're referencing, although the Sugar snare was $800, it's made of poplar. Vintage drums when they were 3 ply were maple/poplar/maple or mahogany/poplar/mahogany right? What most don't realize is the majority of the shell was poplar, with thin veneers on the inside and outside. That's why they have re-rings, since poplar is "filler wood" that has no density to it. BUT being that the shell is mostly poplar, that's the majority of the sound you're gonna get out of the drum - not the maple or mahogany. So it makes sense why their ears are drawn to those two drums. Also, it's a great idea to add an acrolite to your collection - the question is, which era though? Appreciate the kind words, and thank you for the continued support @dilankarun9172🙏🏻🥁

[@terryweiss6069]

I have a 1973 suprphonic 400 still from when i was in my second year of highschool band.last year bought a 1975 acrolite to compare.Felt the acrolite was to dry for my taste so i sold it.I just prefer my pitted supra,to me it has that all around top 40 sound and is less dry.I used it in stage band for big band jazz,swing as well.To my ears this drum is the most versatle.Not to mention the supra was used on the monkeys,brady bunch,partridge family,momas an papas,and fifth damention albums all by hal blaine.Nice job nick,your videos are very informative an accurate! Carry on drum brother.

[@NickCostaMusic]

That makes sense @terryweiss6069 - the chrome plating helps brighten up the shell, and I completely understand how that can be a preferred sound for you. There's definitely a reason it's the most recorded snare drum of all time, like you said it's versatile and just works! Appreciate you taking the time to check out the video and leave a comment - cheers!

[@mjm5081]

Thank you for sharing That kit sounds great! Happy Drumming!!!

[@NickCostaMusic]

Thank you for watching! Appreciate the time you took to watch and leave a comment. Glad you liked the kit - the beauty of @ludwigdrumshq . Cheers!

[@ibleebinU]

Man, you got that kit tuned perfectly.

[@NickCostaMusic]

The beauty of @ludwigdrumshq !

[@bruthax-ray8366]

I have my dad's '66 Acrolite (stamped June 22, 1966), in excellent condition! I love it in the medium and high tunings

[@mikedumas8494]

I'm not surprised by all the attention to the acrolite. Someone gave me a broken one and it's now my second favorite behind my Super Sensitive. I use Genera Drys (not HD) on my non-muffled snares.

[@NickCostaMusic]

It went from being a drum that you could find for peanuts, to now being sought after. It's pretty wild. Is your super sensitive the same size?

[@mikedumas8494]

@@NickCostaMusic Yes, it's 5 X 14 from 1971. I added a cast top rim a while back, which helps with it staying in tune. I have the parts to replace the snare mechanism, but haven't needed them yet.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Oh Nice! Love how the INDe throw off or the new P88 fit. Helps get modern durability out of the older drums

[@MrRLRRLL]

I have and use both of those snare drums….l absolutely love them ! Great video ! Thanks

[@NickCostaMusic]

Right on, @MrRLRRLL ! Both are great drums and can get the job done. Which one do you find yourself grabbing for the most?

[@aluminati9918]

Great vid! Low tuned I actually preferred the Acro. Both delicious drums that have their place in the snare Pantheon! Thanks for sharing.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Appreciate you checking out the vid, @aluminati9918 ! I agree - they're both great sounding drums, and both are must have's in a snare collection.

[@Spagz]

I agree!!

[@kuhliloach8842]

I find the 8 lug Acrolite snare has great character and fundamental tone. The controlled sound of the 10 lug chromed snare sounds less musical to me and more aggressive. IMO the sweet spot is 8 lugs and this is what Ludwig should be manufacturing right now in the 14 x 5 inch size.

[@NickCostaMusic]

I love how an 8 lug has more breath to it. I think the only snare Ludwig offers in 8 lug is the black beauty - they brought it back for their 110th anniversary, and I believe they kept them in production

[@handidrummer]

Both of these in medium range are just unreal. That's what both of mine live. And you know me man I have a lot of snares but there's just some special Mojo with both of them and that Medium tuning

[@NickCostaMusic]

For sure! What sticks out most for you in those tunings?

[@handidrummer]

@NickCostaMusic okay so you know me dude, I'm a tone freak right. And so after you play a lot of snares you start to see the nuances in every tone material. So for brass it has that brass twang, Birch has that natural EQ thing going on, same with Beech, etc. So with these here that is a do everything range. With them both being aluminum it has just enough dry in it to where the overtones are controlled, but not too dry where it doesn't sit well in the mix in the studio. Very Birch like. Now why have both of these in the tuning range. The supra, for my ear at least, under a mic has a weeeeeee bit more high end sweetness. The acro is more raw. Both in that range are money regardless

[@handidrummer]

You knew better than to ask me this question and expect me not to go off the deep end LOL

[@Spagz]

@@handidrummer wow, cool breakdown. Brass is my next for my ever growing collection. What snares do you prefer on a LM402 Bonham Supra?? I'm running 42 strand snappy snares and I love them bit often wonder if I am missing out in a better sound. Although my main goal was that Bonham sound. Coated Emperor.

[@handidrummer]

@NickCostaMusic I'm going to let you answer that question man because that's a very specific question for a drum that you're going to be more well versed in I will. But as for what I would do with that? I would just leave it stock honestly. Is very rare for me to change out a lot of my wires unless there's something extremely specific that I'm looking for. And I mean it has to be an extreme that I'm having to chase down not just general everyday playing for incense I have a custom 14x8 Hard Rock Maple snare that has 42 strand wires on it just so I don't lose snare sensitivity. Literally the only reason I changed them out

[@davepounds8924]

Nice video on the 2 snares! I For a used Acrolite you can still find one in good condition for around 300 dollars this drum is Ludwig’s best value for the money Easily tuned and can be used for any type of music it’s a snare that is a great value

[@NickCostaMusic]

Appreciate that, thank you @davepounds8924 ! So wild to think they're up to $300 now, though they are a great drum for sure.

[@6400ab]

To my ears the Acrolite seems to be a bit more resonate in the mid to lower frequencies giving it that classic Acrolite "bark" sound. The Supraphonic sounds more controlled over all with a bit more ring in the high end. Both sound great.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Totally agree!

[@brianfieldsdrums3220]

Thanks for the video, Nick. I own and love both of these drums. I think the Acro had a bit more low end information than the Supra, and the Supra has a bit more cut and clarity compared to the Acro. Both wonderful in their own way.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Totally agree, @brianfieldsdrums3220 . Love them both for exactly what you described. Appreciate you checking out the vid and taking time to leave a comment!

[@AdamGershon]

Thanks for this. I much prefer the Supraphonic. I hear more character, complexity, depth, and bark. It's #1 on my list right now for a new snare.

[@NickCostaMusic]

No problem - thank you for watching! Supraphonic is a great addition to any snare collection

[@af7119]

I was hoping you'd do this video! Thank you!

[@NickCostaMusic]

You're welcome, @af7119 ! Appreciate the continued support and glad you enjoyed the vid. Are their any other videos you'd like to see here on the channel?

[@af7119]

I'm not the most creative, but I love what you already are doing.@@NickCostaMusic

[@NickCostaMusic]

That's okay, sometimes the form of creativeness just comes to you. Appreciate the kind words and the support!

[@jorymil]

There seems to be more variation in the Acrolites by era: a 60s Acrolite sounds very different than an 80s Acrolite. Supraphonics seem to be more even; you can buy a new one today that will sound like one from the 70s. If I had a 60s Acrolite, I'd be afraid it'd get stolen! But I think that 60s Acrolite is absolutely gorgeous. Something to note about aluminum: even "raw" aluminum is sprayed with a thin layer of lacquer to prevent oxidation. Raw aluminum, left in a salty and/or acidic environment (anything electrically conductive), is pretty tough to repair. Ask me how I know on that one.

[@NickCostaMusic]

I agree with you. My video comparing acrolites I thought the 60s was the cleanest tone, 70s had a little bite to the overtone, and the blackrolite was drier. Never knew that about aluminum - maybe that's why ludwig had the orange peel finish on 70s acrolites for a minute?

[@Thesmokymountainman]

Two great instruments. The Acro sounds soft kinda cushy feeling while the Supra sounds more focused. It’s like mashed potatoes being the Acro and mashed potatoes with gravy being the Supra. It depends on the full course to decide which one to play. Love Both but when I was given a late 70s Supra it quickly became my go to sound ever since. But my Acro never disappoints. Great comparison and I like medium- medium high tensions mostly.

[@NickCostaMusic]

I love this analogy! At the end of the day they're both potatoes, but how you prepare them provides a different fulfillment. ::chef's kiss:: I agree with you regarding the sounds - definitely the 10 lugs help make the supra more focused regardless of tuning. Throughout the videos featuring both drums it seems like medium, medium-high is where most people enjoy them. Really appreciate the feedback, and thank you for taking time to check out the vid!

[@Thesmokymountainman]

@@NickCostaMusic Thank for the effort you put into these. Much appreciated. God Bless

[@NickCostaMusic]

Thank YOU for taking the time to watch and leave a comment!

[@sam-drums]

As always, very informative clips. To my ears, the Acrolite seems to have more sustain at lower tunings. At high and crancked tunings, they sound more similar. There is a big price difference these days between the Acrolite and the Black Galaxy Acrolite. I need to go back and watch your older video and compare the sound between those two snares.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Appreciate that, thank you for the continued support @sam-drums ! I wonder if what you're hearing is caused by the amount of lugs. Since the acro only has 8, maybe it can breathe a bit more. In higher tunings, the shells can be choking out a bit? I think the black galaxy is a bit drier than the older acrolites, but that's just my opinion. Definitely check out the older vids and let me know what you think!

[@brent3760]

Ive never had an acrolite. I have a 71 supraphonic (LM 400 as well), but now i think that acrolitebis almost identical in sound. If you close your eyes, its hard to really hear a difference.

[@brent3760]

But the differences that I did hear, I would choose the supra all day. 👍👍 I felt the supra was more open. Larger and fuller sounding. More crack. The acrolite seemed drier to me.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Totally get that! It's funny, because you would think an 8 lug drum would have a more open tone than 10 lug. I do feel the supra does have more crack and body, just like you said.

[@NelsonMontana1234]

Well..I'd say the timbre is similar but the SP has a little more snap and sparkle in the high end.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Definitely. Do you think it's from the chrome plating, or 10 lugs over 8 (maybe, both)?

[@NelsonMontana1234]

@@NickCostaMusic It must be!

[@compucorder64]

I prefer the Supraphonic. It has a more controlled, tighter sound (from the 10 lugs?). But combined with a bit more bite/snap (from the chrome?). Acrolite sounds a bit lower and looser, and the body sound gels less tightly with the snare wire sound. I think the new issue Acrolites are 10 lugs now, and chrome plated lugs and hoops? I wonder if they sound tighter and more controlled and more snappy...

[@NickCostaMusic]

That's a great observation and explaination! You're right, the new acrolite's are 10 lugs. I would think they're going to be more controlled, though maybe that would be a great comparison for a future video!

[@handidrummer]

Also this just made me realize I really need to reinvestigate but I have going on with a lot of my snares and their snare wires

[@NickCostaMusic]

Honestly the drums sound the best with the stock wires in my opinion, though they're different than one another. I wanted the same thing on both to eliminate any discrepancies they might cause

[@handidrummer]

You know what's funny is because of this video I just started a discussion on Facebook how about snare wires. Now I'm curious on what everybody's mindset on it is. Feel free to jump in that if you want

[@handidrummer]

@@NickCostaMusic from the looks of it I might have just gave you a layup on a snare wire video that needs to be made

[@NickCostaMusic]

I made one during the pandemic when I really started diving into gear vids on KZbin - kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3qnc5esiaqBbc0. MUCH different production compared to now, but it's there🤣

[@malcolmporter8158]

My opinion: the best sound was from the superphonics tuned low, damper off and the acrolite tuned medium, damper on. I have an acrolite from the late 70's. My second snare as my main one is a Tama Starclassic.

[@NickCostaMusic]

That's a great example of how they're both great drums and work in different situations - thank you for that, @malcolmporter8158 . That was the point of the video, to show price doesn't matter - it's about sound and personal preference. Sounds like you have a solid one - two combo for snares - now to get a supraphonic and you'll have everything covered!

[@malcolmporter8158]

@NickCostaMusic I'd like to make a snare with 2 plies of Brazilian Rosewood and a center ply of Sitka Spruce with some reinforcement rings. But the cost of material alone would be quite expensive.

[@malcolmporter8158]

I forgot to mention that as a you adult, I was able to get an early 60's Ludwig set with matching snare in white marine pearl. A few years ago, financial difficulties forced me to sell them. I was able to get a few cymbals and the acrolite back. Thankfully, the drums went to a friend of mine who is taking really good care of them.

[@NickCostaMusic]

@malcolmporter8158 that would a real warm, resonant drum. I think it would sound great with 8 lugs to let it breathe a bit, too!

[@NickCostaMusic]

Sorry to hear that. Hopefully if you're both up for it you can get them back one day

[@ronniek7748]

Thx for the vid Nick. I own a 70’s acro. In your demo I didn’t like any of the snares with the damper on. Also, I didn’t like either of the drums in the low tuning. I think the ideal pitch for my ears, would be a medium high tuning. I also think that the supra might be a little crisper. I find very little difference in these two drums, they are both great!

[@NickCostaMusic]

Right on, @Ronniek7748 - I appreciate you taking the time to check out the video! I completely understand not enjoying the sound with the damper on, it really dries out each drum - especially on the acrolite. I think you're on to something with the crisper sound of the supra - another viewer commented something similar. You think that's from the additional lugs, the chrome plating, or maybe a combo of the 2?

[@jamesangel6986]

The acrolite muffler dries the drum more than the baseball bat on the supraphonic.

[@NickCostaMusic]

I thought so too - most likely due to the round internal damper being larger, I'd assume?

[@CrispyAlbino]

Excellent video! I actually preferred the acrolite myself..

[@NickCostaMusic]

Appreciate that, thank you @CrispyAlbino ! Acrolite is a great choice

[@ЯрославАндреев-п7я]

I have a question. I also have old ludwig drums (supraphonic and acrolite in particular from the 70s) and use remo heads and I encountered the following problem - the remo heads do not always fit on my snare drums. The fact is that with remo the fit size varies within 3 millimeters and before buying them in a store I always measure the inner diameter of the plastic. The shell of the my snare drums are not oval. Have you encountered such a problem?

[@NickCostaMusic]

Sorry to hear you're dealing with that, @user-iv1hd6ex2l . I have never had that problem with any remo heads UNLESS they're my '68 downbeat kit - which is out of round. Since you mentioned your shells aren't like that, I'm not sure what's going on, though I'd recommend the Remo classic fit - they're slightly larger than modern heads to help with this problem. I'd say give one of those a try! 14" Ambassador Classic Fit - amzn.to/3UF4rmV

[@ЯрославАндреев-п7я]

@@NickCostaMusic Thanks for the useful advice, I'll take it into account!

[@NickCostaMusic]

No problem - hope it helps!

[@jakobfriedrich6554]

Nice helpful video really. Thx in advance. For my ears the two behave close to what I expected. Talking about snares reminds me a little of talking about wine... :-) In brief words I´d say the acrilite is more dry, behaves more like paper, all in all shorter - whereas the superphonic gives you more depth and punch. I love to have both of them to choose from in different musical settings. @Nick Costa - Did you try to compare the two in 6,5" version too? I´m even moire curious now Thx anyway! Greetings from Vienna!

[@NickCostaMusic]

That's a great comparison @jakobfriedrich6554 ! I agree with you, both are great to have and work well in different settings. That's not a bad idea! I do have a 6.5X14 supraphonic, though I don't have a 6.5X14 acrolite. The newer acrolites have 10 lugs compared to 8 like the old ones, but that's not a bad comparison!

[@steverichdrummr]

Good job Nick. I like them both, but the Supra will always be my choice. I noticed, no offense intended, that I think my Acro and Supra sound better that what I am hearing, at least a little bit. I'm thinking that as you said, the original snare wires may be better, and I understand why you evened them out. So, not a problem, because your comparison was still interesting, but I like the original wires best. Thanks.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Appreciate that @steverichdrummr ! I'm not sure why, but both drums sound much better with the stock wires - just like all 3 acrolites did in the last couple videos. What head combo do you have on your supraphonic and acrolite, maybe that makes a bit of a difference too?

[@steverichdrummr]

@@NickCostaMusic Hi Nick. My Acro is a blacro, all stock except for a Remo CS ambassador coated batter, medium high. My LM400 (1966) 100% stock except for the batter also, a Remo vintage coated, I think is 2 ply, one 7 ml, and one 3 ml or so. My '67 Supersensitive converted to Supra has stock bottom head, again a CS coated Ambassador but with Puresound vintage brass wires. The last one also has a much thicker batter steel hoop from an old set of Fibes. I tune all mine approx. medium high or so, and of those 3, the SSen conversion sounds the best. Crisper, and a nice deeper sound hit hard on center.

[@NickCostaMusic]

Love the CS coated when I want to control a drum more than an Ambassador X. The 66 and 67 should be the same shell, unless one of them is stamped with a B (for brass). Could be the thicker steel hoop on the 67 is helping give that different sound.

[@steverichdrummr]

​@@NickCostaMusic Yes Nick, I agree. Both of my old ones are heavily pitted, so none are brass. I think that besides the heavy batter hoop, I'm thinking there are hidden differences that people forget when it's a conversion drum that affect the sound, that being the interior still has these super thick S-Sen steel braces on both sides above the snare gates, that I retained on mine, and a couple of extra holes. Honestly the darn franken snare sounds tremendous! I'd like to send you pictures, but I have to figere out how to do that, ( I'm old and not too tech savvy!

[@NickCostaMusic]

If you visit my website - nickcostamusic.com , there's a contact form at the bottom of the 1st page.

[@NickCostaMusic]

The 🚨 giveaway 🚨 is LIVE to win a 6.5x14 Chrome over Brass LB402B 🥁 at shop.nickcostamusic.com !

[@JohnSumner13]

The medium tuned, no damper Acrolite sounded best to my ears.

[@NickCostaMusic]

That medium or medium-high tuning is the sweet spot for that drum in my opinion. I'm always a fan of no dampening, too!

[@mikedumas8494]

How tight to you tune your snare side head? You probably mentioned it, but I didn't notice.

[@NickCostaMusic]

I tune the bottom heads table top tight - that way the snares can be quick and snappy.

[@ForeverDownByLaw]

They're both fine drums, but the Supro is just more. More tone, more tuning stability and a more refined sound. I love my '71 Acro, but it's big brother Supro sees most of my time.

[@NickCostaMusic]

All valid points, @ForeverDownByLaw . Do you have a preferred tuning, or do you like the supraphonic because of it's flexibility?

[@ForeverDownByLaw]

The Supro seems to sound good at any tuning to my ear, typically I tune it medium high. With the added lugs over the Acro, it is easier to tune and stays in tune better. And, unlike the Acro, if a tuning rod backs off a little from rim shots, the Supro still sounds decent, whereas the Acro is more fussy this way. If a tuning rod backs off on the Acro, it affects the adjacent rods more. @@NickCostaMusic

[@NickCostaMusic]

You're absolutely right, @ForeverDownByLaw, since the acrolite has less lugs like you said. 1 lug can change the sound much more. I usually tune my snares the same, too

[@d-rock9228]

I think the Acro beats the Supra in the high and cranked ranges.

[@NickCostaMusic]

A bit more direct, and that 70s funk sound in my opinion. What did you hear that made it stand out?

[@GG-sb8fd]

I agree. I thought the Acro just had a more pleasant crack with great overtones at a high tuning and no muffling. Great video btw, thanks!

[@iRideuWatch]

You said the LM400 comes with ten bowtie lugs

[@NickCostaMusic]

I did, it was a mistake on my part

[@482jpsquared]

sup RA phonic

[@NickCostaMusic]

Hi, I'm from Philly - that's my accent.