So Are Flyers DEAD in Warhammer 40K? The Aircraft Nerf from the New Update Discussed...

[@hannahgeraghty4201]

Of everything in this game, flyers seem to be the one thing GW could never get right. They're always either totally useless or the most dangerous thing on the table.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

It's because as much as the models are meant to look like tanks and artillery pieces 40k functionally simulates very close quarters combat. Aircraft don't fit in to that well.

[@RSBurgener]

And tanks really don't fit well either. Ridiculous how a single grot can tag a friggin Baneblade in melee.

[@jimmydesouza4375]

@@RSBurgener Commander is too busy trying to hit the two foot tall green thing with his sword to actually command the tank.

[@guyinbluu]

@RSBurgener they actually changed that- guard can fire their big gun even if tagged in melee

[@BB-pn2qv]

Was this even needed?

[@Brother_Rony]

If I had a cent for every time all flyers got nerfed just because 1 army dominated with them I would have 2 cents which isn't a lot but it's pretty annoying

[@darthvaderbutwayshittier7054]

I mean, Bombers won't be overpowered if they can't bomb anything half the game, that sure is a way to make sure the change will do the trick.

[@Haruharuharuko1942]

There’s a half step I really wished they’d have taken which is flyers start off the board but “come in” turn one it allows shooting but disallows bombing alpha strikes and makes flying transports viable for 2nd turn drop offs

[@drachenmagus1604]

I agree. I would also accept flying transports having an exception to allow them to disembark after moving on the same turn they came in from reserves. We could further the rules and allow them to fly into reserves and drop off another unit. That means the fly in on turn 2, drop off, fly off on turn 3, and come back on turn 4 to drop off another unit. It would also make it the only turn 4 reserve deployment in the game which I think would be badass tactical play. Most likely GW will just have a stratagem that requires us to pay 1 CP to have troops dismount from the flying transport. I believe some armies already do for ground.

[@oblivionfan345Tony]

It just blows my mind that GW literally cannot figure it out. ONE army with ONE problem unit and there are sweeping nerfs across all armies. It's ridiculous, same thing with the Barrage nerf, WHY??

[@seriousmike5649]

Because they are incompetents who dont even play their own game

[@Bluecho4]

It's really weird. Sometimes GW is able to do a surgical nerf that solves the problem with minimal fuss. Then you have things like this, where they take a sledgehammer to the whole game. You would think, now they have a Balance Dataslate, they can just make targeted changes that address problems. Instead of invalidating whole styles of play or rendering units totally unusable. Was anyone so threatened by spore mines they needed to cost Reinforcement Points?

[@TheTexasDice]

Because flyers have been causing issues for over 15 years at this point and everyone is sick of it. 9th edition alone had 4 instances of broken aircraft. FOUR!

[@-Benedict]

Because they're an IP and model company, not a game company. They only put out a half-arsed game as a means to an end.

[@dalakhsarothal9624]

That first turn stuff feels really overboard. The no flying off after dropping a bomb really seems like it was an appropriate nerf in regards to the strong options almost all being bombers.

[@drachenmagus1604]

Half the problem is them combating the Alpha Strikes. I sometimes wonder if it would be better to combine both players turn at one. So at the start of each round, roll dice, and the winner gets to decided if the go first or not. Then first player command phase, then second player command phase. First player moves, then second play moves. And etc. You only removed models at the end of second player phase, so that means even if a unit is wiped out during the first player shooting phase, they get a chance return fire... It diffenintly would make cover and hiding line of sight more important then firepower and speed. In either case, the no bombing after flying off is appropriate. If my Crisis suits can't have JSJ then no one can lol

[@GundamReviver]

@@drachenmagus1604 alternativel, finally scrap phases and go full kill team alternating activations. One of yours, one of mine. Or like bolt action does it. A dice in the bag for each unit you have. And one for each I have, and we draw dice out, it has your collor? One of yours goes. One of mine? Mine goes..

[@Swrdfshtrmbns]

I hope not. My hydra has waited a long time to feed.

[@Notpopularopinion]

Definitely making flyers dead. Amiright?

[@Trazynn]

It would be more fun if the ground troops had to paint targets (through laser or flares) for the planes to make them more dangerous and reliable. That way the flyers become more interactive and the opponent gets an opportunity to adjust and respond.

[@Chris-jl6vp]

Too bad GW cannot comprehend troops being useful for things beyond small arms fire and dying on objectives.

[@vidarthorsby2052]

There as the night of 5th edition passed and the dawn of 6th edition came the clouds parted and behold - every one had a flyer. Every one could only be hit on a 6. But behold the vendetta and vulture gunships where so incredibly over powered. And while somebody had special rules to shoot at airplanes it was very bad over all.

[@linkofvev]

@@vidarthorsby2052 Partly why I stopped nearing the end of 4th. Never liked the idea of aircrafts being introduced in game.

[@gfanikf]

@@Chris-jl6vpPerhaps Tempest troops then? But I like the idea of guard either calling in artillery or locations for CAS.

[@shakyrob6512]

I wish Reivers with Batclaws could assault them. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@edamitep1533]

They just need to totally rewrite the rules for them entirely. I started playing in 7th so I can't speak for before that but in 7th-current it's been rough with flyers either they are hyper oppressive or horrendous. Maybe the answer is alternating activations or phases. If you fly the flyer into their deployment zone you better hope they don't have stuff that can blow it off the board. The issue with them is that they fly in and can delete something pretty much while having a -1 to hit and a minimum range of units that can engage them in melee effectively.

[@mentok1]

I know the Heldrake was particularly bad performing even before this nerf, I liked running it. I had fun with it. Now, I'm not sure if I'll keep it on my list.

[@arbiters487]

I miss charging people with the imperial guard Valkryie, that was really fun

[@deafnoisemarine6294]

@@arbiters487 Hello? Based department?

[@linkofvev]

I so narrowly dodged the bullet there. Was going to buy a Heldrake for my halfway complete World Eaters army.

[@RSBurgener]

I just got a Heldrake and it's 80% finished. Now I have to decide if I'm gonna run it. It's the same endless 40k debate: do you run the pieces of art you're proud of and make a statement or are you gonna run dryly efficient troops with no consideration for lore and aesthetics?

[@mentok1]

@Sellers Burgener my opinion is "run what you like, not the meta". For instance, I've got a blood angel army solely because they get a Dreadnought Librarian and I'm running as many individual Dreadnought as I can. I have no sanguinary guard in that army. I have a lot of fun with it.

[@FortuneFaded2006]

I hope not. I've just gotten my 2 Valks up and running for a Vietnam style Catachan Air Cav list.

[@OEFarredondo]

Oof that's a big hit to you, BUT! You got to use some forward observers, and some of that airborne heavy weapons teams or some walkers bruh

[@shae98sc2]

I was 3 Valks in to a 6 Valkyrie 8th edition list before the restrictions happened. I’d hoped it was a typo interchanging the words “model” and “unit”, but clearly that’s not the direction they took

[@FortuneFaded2006]

@@shae98sc2 grim mate. I suppose there's always friendly games

[@hammer1349]

@NewSheo valkyries are single model units in the new guard dex so was very much the intention I think unfortunately. A lot of the vehicles for guard going down to single models hurts *looks at my 6 hellhounds*

[@kahldris1228]

I really hope 10th does some good stuff for flyers.

[@James80312]

because flyers were really what needed nerfs right now

[@Snozcumbers]

Someone clearly hasn't played against twin sunshark bombers

[@James80312]

@Tilly Budney the vast majority of flyers are not needing a nerf and you know that, come on.

[@Snozcumbers]

@@James80312 still big alpha strike pieces, not engaging and very feels bad.

[@Haloister]

@@Snozcumbers Honestly not really, by and large they (flyers) weren't the problem it was one playstyle from one unit in one army that was the issue there. Transport flyers in particular are effectively incapable of actually doing their job now which sucks a lot.

[@the.rogue.roman.77]

They should (1) make a distinction between hover flyers like the Guard Valkyrie, and fast airplane flyers like the Drukhari Ravenwing, and (2) for fast airplane flyers, make them more powerful but require a stratagem to summon them anywhere on the board on each turn.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Valkyrie is not hover flyer.

[@jakegunning61]

@@BloodyArchangelus idk about now I haven't played them with there new book but it used to be able to hoover I think that's what they ment

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@jakegunning61 They can hover, but they are not a Gunships. they still can fly normally

[@hammer1349]

@Sergalius I think it's a case of splitting things that can and can't hover. Hover can start on the board but risk being killed first turn as they can fly slower and thus not outpace ground forces while non-hover aircraft come in for strafing runs and ground strikes/targeting enemy air assets

[@BloodyArchangelus]

@@hammer1349 yes they should do this. it would balance flyers more

[@logansmall5148]

My Corvus Blackstar is now just a dust collector... They really should allow Transports to start on the board if they are actually, you know, transporting units. Zero point to using it now that it can't deliver troops until turn 3.

[@hammer1349]

I think this does mean though that you don't have to put units in it as it doesn't start on the board

[@logansmall5148]

Actually it can't deliver troops till turn 4... Turn 2 bring it in from strat. reserves, turn 3 move it.... Turn 4 disembark.

[@hammer1349]

@Logan Small you can still get out and move turn 3 before the corvus moves as per standard disembark rules but yeah, probably won't be in a good spot for them either way

[@TheBiggestHistoryNerd]

You can pry my Marauder Destroyer from my cold dead hands

[@masterofthelag8414]

Given the real world cost of them (and the fact they're super cool :D ) I totally get that. I really liked my little Stormhawk Interceptor, but now... I'm really not thinking it's worth using

[@markberghel275]

As someone whose local group is inevitably filled with massive shooting, I actually LIKE having my dakkajet start off the board so it can't get crippled or blown up before it does anything. The reserves changes just means I don't have to pay CP for it now.

[@NightfireGamingYT]

I know some guys who just bought flyers and won’t be happy about this 😂

[@stephenrepper8118]

Since the Necron core roll out I've run my plane as a Doom Scythe in almost every game. Park it at the back, slap a +1 to hit from my will be done on it, zip it forward and try to break something with its heavy death ray. Think this change works out nice for Necrons as Doom Scythes now look worse, but Night Scythes much better which is nice for game variety and the kind of thing I like to see when GW changes up the rules. However, the couple of times I've run my SW Stormfang this edition has always been with a T1 +1 to hit from a techmarine which is now impossible. Even with the pts drop its become even less viable

[@MrHalonoob117]

Man I just picked up 2 heldrakes before the flyer rulers were announced. F

[@joelhenry2527]

I’ve been using 2 in my wordbearers for over 2 years now, they are helped not harmed by this change

[@EbonFang_92]

With the drop in points, I could deploy a stormfang and stormwolf and on turn two clear an LZ and drop to hover and deploy strike forces

[@AllThingsCubey]

Cannot believe they didn't revert the 20pt nerf to the Archaeopter Fusilave whilst nerfing bombers this hard...

[@ericwolf9664]

The stratoraptor is the bigger concern imo. No amount of points could fix this much rules hampering for the bombers but the raptor could be a tanky gun platform that compliment the heavy support options. Especially since they've done nothing to make people try to run anything other than ironstriders to root out troublesome units...

[@AllThingsCubey]

@@ericwolf9664 Agree if they had reverted the completely unnecessary 20pt nerf to the Stratoraptor I might consider running them in certain lists. However I'm not actually using Ironstriders. They're just too damn fragile and I've found a mix of Onager Dunecrawlers and Armiger Helverins/ Moiraxes splits the Ironstrider's role in two, with both replacement units being more durable and specialised at their jobs

[@Jack-wy4cg]

@@AllThingsCubey i kinda agree but decided to go in a completely different direction and went full melee to kill my opponent before they kill me with rust stalkers and dragoons. I think mechanicus players at large are lacking a lot of creativity.

[@AllThingsCubey]

@@Jack-wy4cg From experience with such a list you will struggle in a tournament setting, but I hope it works for you in a fun setting. Ryza?

[@dmgdrunkenmultiplayergamin5631]

My storm wolf just sits in my case at this point. However my wolf guard with jump packs are stupidly helpful now with the points decreases.

[@tompayne4945]

My two hobbies are GW based and World of Tanks. They collaborated recently and they seem to've entered into a private competition as to how hard they can destroy their own IP.

[@derricktitley3784]

Sad thing is that this nerf round that went through for Tyranids just made Harridans relevant again. Extra troop slots for AoO means basically free (160 points for obsec flying units seriously they're cheap) 20 gargoyles being dropped in basically wherever round 2, and 16 shots of [10, -3, 3] Dire Bio Cannons means their point value is surprisingly good. No need for spore mines when you can just sit there and drop 3+ wound rolls on most vehicles and 2+ wound rolls on basically anything infantry til the Harridan hits 17 wounds.

[@Tinytraveler]

I suppose the advantage the Waazboom Blasta Jet has, is that you're only concerned with range for its guns. Turn 2 isn't terrible for their use, but I did remove them from my current list and replaced them with Killa Kans.

[@icklemoo]

kill kans are are great imo . cheap rokkit units with a bit of punch if needed ... tellyporta a big unit of 5 . unload rokkits. then ramming speed into something is always entertaining

[@killahertz7124]

My suggestion of a change to offer interaction and play around would be to put the 90deg pivot at the END of their mandatory move not first. This will allow your opponent to see the intending direction of the bomber and has the choice during their turn to either scatter out of the flight path or be bombed, works similar to the Deathstrike missile or Orbital Bombardments and has true player skill to pre aiming their path

[@RSBurgener]

I JUST got a Heldrake too. And it's some of my best painting work to date. Why are the coolest models so lackluster? Forgefiends aren't spectacular either, but God do they look amazing!

[@joelhenry2527]

Trust me, keep using it and add a second one too.

[@geonsilberlicht4632]

Also, are you sure that things from strategic reserves categorically don't count as having moved? I am not as well versed in the core rules as in Codex Orks, but I seem to recall reading something to the effect.

[@ChrisJohnson-vb9hr]

I'm pretty convinced that GW only wants everyone to field elite infantry for some reason. Most vehicles suck, most troops sucks, artillery nerfed, and planes nerfed. On top of that, the new detachment is going to let people spam elites without any cost.

[@monkeyinapanzer]

I mean. Few models on the table so the game move faster. Looks less intimidating to new players. Most elite unit kits are expensive and you would need double the number of boxes to get all options for more then a few units so profit. And elite units are total badasses in lore which is super easy to market compared to “it took 100,000 guardsmen to take a hill”. Going super heavy on elite troops would be a easy marketing choice.

[@tarektechmarine8209]

More money approach. See, one Vic doesn't seem like much, but if you have Ten guys now it seems more worth it.

[@randomdude4505]

Glad I didn't buy a Sunshark last year. GW is doing a good job of making me save money by convincing me not to buy that model I was thinking about because it might be unplayable shortly.

[@hammer1349]

Is also a pretty expensive kit for what you get

[@ericrbacher9371]

Stormraven was hit stupid hard. Lost armor of contempt an now instead of dropping a dreadnought withing 9" on turn 2, its turn 4! They dont even have the grav chute rules of the valkerie

[@geonsilberlicht4632]

I reiterate my point: Flyers were nerfed by the Arks of Omen Detachment already. All Detachments except for the very most specialized were able to take Flyers along. Meaning that the moment flyers were worth it for the points (in your army), you would always take them along, because they would never cost you CP. If there had been an airwing detachment required to field flyers, flyers wouldn't have been as common. In any case, now any army can take anything along without losing CP. Now, the Flyers really have to outperform practically all other choices to be taken.

[@michelecastellotti9172]

I would say this: heavier aircrafts such as the Tiger shark MAY benefit from this, anti-aerial crafts will be more rare and the tiger shark hits like a trucks with its massive heavy rail cannons (use markerlights), also the presence of seeker missiles, but it will be tricky still since now infantry also has gotten tank level of firepower in like... 70% of cases

[@ka1juhunt3r]

As a grey knight player whose best anti tank option is a stormraven this hurts.

[@Raygun9000]

If they wanted to stop the bombing alpha strike they could've allowed them to come on reserves on turn 1...

[@damnationdan5253]

I refuse to adhere to these rules ffs why does competitive mindset have to ruin everything

[@jessedefrancisco1410]

U don't have to. Don't okay Aao. I hate it too. I just bought a wazbomb and a dakkajet. Literally 3 days ago ....

[@jessedefrancisco1410]

I'm just playing regular 9th with the points changes at my local shop. Nobody plays aoo. It's garbage.

[@WingsaberE3]

I was just getting into the idea of using the nightscythe in games. The guy argued that the flyer shouldn't be able to deploy its troops since reinforcement takes place after the movement phase and therefore after one would deploy troops.

[@cooljoe500]

I play my Valkyrie and Dakka Jet because I like the models :3

[@marknicklin2694]

I think tyranids Harridan is worth a shot under leviathan. Gets a reroll, can get exploding 6 and 4invul for a turn each. Minus 1 to hit coming down t2 so can not be targeted until after it has fired. 16 shots and normally wounding on 2s unless infantry transhuman. Remove of aoc helps and still use strats such as reroll all wounds in fight phase and it has d6. High in points but will give it a go as it should delete anything it wants each turn.

[@colinchristiansen6000]

What about the Orion drop ship for the Custodes? If I’m understanding right, with its guns being decent, you could throw a unit of custodian guards and a Galatus dreadnaught onto the table turn two, at a 6 inch charge. That could be devastating, so long as you don’t mind missing almost 800 off points for turn 1.

[@MrSteelface96]

should just have a flyers game mode in 40k, would be fun

[@venkelos6996]

This is too bad. I do understand that some Flyers could be problematic, and maybe some fixes were in order, but I agree that their efforts to fix those few dinged most of the rest in an unnecessary way. I was watching a Mordian Glory video; sorry for the plug, that hecdid on the Hydra Flak Tank, and it made me chuckle, because while it seems much better against Flyers than it was, it also seems those targets will now be quite a bit rarer, which means it is good that the Hydra can serve as sort of a dakka tank, that is also damning to planes, if theyvhappen to still appear. Still, between the Master of the Fleet using a Stratagem to delay a Flyer another turn, after already being delayed by new rules, Flyers could be in a bad way, and as someone who always liked the Valkyrie, that's too bad, but they don't seem to really have any value, with Elysians nor really being a thing, the no grav chutes thing, and Chineras being a much better Guard transport. It just seems like they want their ground wars simulator to remain ground wars, and air superiority is sort of without value.

[@Kibbet21]

Only flyer I'll continue to consider is the ravenwing dark Talon as it don't care much about what turn it comes in

[@sheridoncary2602]

Losing the first turn blitz kinda sucks but at the same it also means my opponent doesn't get a chance to kill it on their first turn either.

[@RajItToMe]

They could’ve nerfed flyers by making all the Anti air vehicles and units actually useful. So if an aircraft enters into the weapon range of an anti air gun it gets to fire a free overwatch on a 4+ ignoring modifiers. Like actually make those other models useful and give people a reason to play those different units like fortifications.

[@bigbrowntau]

And to think I just spent the past couple of weekends painting up a bunch of flyers...damnit! Still, they'll look good in the display cabinet until 11th ed.

[@finnishfatman]

Stormtalon Gunship didn't have bombs, so this doesn't affect it that much and I have one because I just like how it looks. Wouldn't mind it being a bit cheaper still (even after free wargear options) but it is what it is. I use units that look good and fit the theme of the force I'm building (like Gunship with Landspeeder Storm + scouts and outriders + 2 groups of Scout bikers etc, for "recon" force), not really "what's FOTM". I do get it that you gotta nerd it out for tournaments, where every neck beard is trying to min-max their army and copy/paste as much as they can, but would be nice to see GW balancing things (which they never can do unless making everything the same) so that most units would have at least some use in different codexes.

[@ericwolf9664]

I went from considering a bomber and fighter for admech to just considering the fighter as admech. While not core it does have a lot of fire power which makes it quite efficient of a recipient of the base tech priest buff, though whether or not I even run one since I no longer require a second HQ selection is also up for debate.

[@lordalpharius5928]

I’m not a CP hog, so I don’t need to worry about using stratagem synergy combos. So I don’t mind relics. Besides I’m fully aware of CP hunters like callidus, four arm emperor, vect and other similar CP Hunter country synergy lists.

[@patrickperkins3]

The one problem with the transvector's Turn One Drop ability is that it requires you to take two transvectors in order to unlock it so you're spending 220 for the privilege. It could still work in Ryza though.

[@nicthar5991]

In my experience it's made transport fliers a more viable way to get your units acorss the battlefield since now no matter what they're in 9 inches of whatever you want the units inside to charge and even if it blows up it's also damaging enemy models and ideally your models are getting out of it just fine. Overall they're still probably not the greatest, but when I'm trying to get centurions across the field it's not a bad option

[@priestking8636]

I was expecting to see the points drop for the Deciever C'than Shard, as his rules allow to put things in reserves for free, that is opened for all now!

[@kerbo5918]

Elder webway gate INCREASED in points when 2/3 of its rules went away. Secondary scoring and adding things to reserves.

[@icklemoo]

they should just change it that he can pickup units on the table any turn and teleport them once per game

[@dtheraider4336]

For admech if you shell the points out for a second transvector you can split a 12 man squad between the two and then land and drop them off turn 1... Also each transvector allows you to take a second transvector without using a slot... Honestly it's a gimmick with little to no payoff

[@NinjatoBlade]

Man, rip my aircalv Valkyries. Also I just bought a hydra too!

[@Sirilere]

The Hydra just got quite good actually. See Mordian Glory's posts today.

[@NornQueenKya]

If they're dead and flying, that's probably an Angel auspex. ... silly Auspex

[@Trinine9]

I was putting together an all wraith eldar list that was going to have to hemlocks now that idea is dead and never picked up a voidraven was going to at some point but now don’t see much point if it’s just going to die before you get to use it not sure how you are supposed to use flyers like that now

[@legionaireb]

What these changes mean for the way I play my flyers. Next to nothing.

[@dannywigan20]

Theres assault flyers too, seeing as you can't charge the same turn you arrive means you have to fly around and risk getting shot off then table for a turn before you can charge..

[@hammer1349]

I'm pretty sure you can charge from strategic reserves

[@valkyriegremory]

Tbf if sisters of battle get flyers it be 50/50 same with other faction that dont have flyers etc.

[@tssteelx]

Gun runs are okay? How to build an ork flyer: 1: Take a10 warthog 2: Add Dakka 3: Add Bigger Dakka 4: Add More Dakka 5: Add MORE DAKKA 6: Repeat steps 2-5

[@colbychavez3550]

I think these changes should have come with a minimum of a 20% points minimum drop for all flyers across the board. They are at a minimum 20% less effective missing one of the five game turns. GW should have also made Valkyries go into Transport slots in Scions detachments. a simple fix that would not have been OP but let the army work the way it was supposed to. Their hover mode ability could also be changed to include first turn deployment exemptions.

[@hawy06]

Tried the Nightscythe strat couple times, and it works like a charm

[@commandermcnash5137]

As a necron player I find the implementation of our flyers very awkward: -Due the supersonic rule we need to have a minimum movement and rotation restriction, necrons DO have inertialess drives and it's not like supersonic aircraft can't switch between subsonic and supersonic speed, this goes for all factions. -The disembark mechanic is awful, if you really wanted to stop people from making alpha strikes you could simply restrict disembarking units turn 1 instead of having your plane in a shooting gallery for an entire turn. -All the scythes have the problem of being rather fragile due lack of quantum shielding and while the Night Scythe can still be useful due the Prismatic Transdimensional Breach this reduces the Doom Scythe to a glorified kamikaze, what is more statistically this thing will never kill an enemy vehicle in 1 turn. -The Night Shroud, on paper it looks awesome, the problem is, you are paying for a discount Sun Shark who happens to cost more than a Sun Shark, maybe if it had Quantum Shielding it will be into something. All in all the feeling is that they first tried to make some truly powerful units and then they felt like there was a need for nerfing so you can't never feel happy about it.

[@AfroChef]

I personally always lose my stormraven or have it bracketed turn 1, so with free reinforcements I don't mind this change myself

[@futureemp3084]

Whats funny is that with a positional relay sunsharks can enter the board on turn 1

[@myhearn]

they should get a rule that says they can come onto the board from any edge, like an outflank so that they can still shoot round 1 but can't fly over anything and be able to bomb round 2

[@myhearn]

instead of strategic reserves they are placed off the board the same way assassins are and they say they can arrive on any board edge as reinforcements as long as they are more than 9" from any enemy model, turn up round 1 and bomb round 2

[@tomwilliams7287]

It would be nice if they’re was more nuance, say like non bomber aircraft can have 3 in strike force. As with bombers say only one can bomb per turn or let them deploy on the board but they can’t bomb turn one or something.

[@timguinn4283]

Question: I run a doom scythe in my list to make up for not having enough H destroyer models. I am seriously considering running a night and a doom scythe in tandem. Would this be advisable? I don't have a ghost ark yet. I would run lychgaurd for the Beam strat. Alternative is no night scythe replaced with technomancer with prismatic obf and more immortals or whatever

[@davidewing4046]

Can't say for the night scythe, but I've found the doom scythe to be a very effective drop on turn two, particularly near enough to get silent king rerolls, and then turn three given mwbd and launched up to kill something else

[@davidewing4046]

I've been running a pair and really liking it

[@shae98sc2]

Rip Scion Air Cav

[@williamfawkes8379]

That's right, the Corvus Blackstar is the best.

[@Spacefrisian]

Funny they maybe wanted to nerf Alpha strikes with a smaller board. I like seeing my hardhitting stuff being rofl stomped by the many Eradicators i see in every marines list cause they can see the tip of one of those units. At least with a flyer on the board it had my opponent hide their heavy units in spots that i couldnt rush to turn 1 making it so they had the same issue.

[@absolutfreak5012]

Bought a Wazbom right before the changes dropped, but what the hell, I'll give it a shot anyway. My boyz are painted as Bad Moons, which is an uphill ice skate in this edition to start with.

[@Jq2389]

Wazbomb with boomboyz will do just fine. I actually like this so I can’t get shot off the board top of 1

[@tombranstetter68]

With the way 40k plays I never really thought fliers really fit in very well as a whole.

[@alexg2933]

Being on the receiving end of two mechanicus fliers turn one obliterating my poor Orks… nope!

[@SkyrimRules599]

I wish the Harpy stayed a Flyer and was never made an aircraft

[@dhellfox]

worst thing is it obliterates any viable use for a transports as now your arrive turn 2 and it has to survive the next 2 do safely drop troops to where they are needed (without special rules)

[@brainerror3168]

Bought a stormraven, the thing is absolutely useless and is now collecting dust. Aircraft are just not viable at all.

[@shotou]

Oh so my nephilim wouldn't get the bonus for it's heavy weapons except I can stay in Dev Doct now.

[@oneearrabbit]

I don’t think making bombers more points would balance out being able to alpha strike the living crap out of units before the game really even starts in earnest. But I do agree having bombers not even be able to bomb until turn 3 is not the answer either. I think having flyers being put into strategic reserves makes sense, but letting bombers do their thing on turn 2 I think would have given them a deserved nerf but not to where people are questioning even taking them.

[@loganbrown2959]

Only way I kill aircraft is melee, void dragon and scarabs for the win

[@PhailRaptor]

Sounds kind of like they tried to ham-fist a single rule onto 3 different classes of aircraft that all operate differently, and are now surprised that it doesn't work. I question the ability to fly Bombers in all but the largest of engagements. And restricting small dedicated transport craft to the same set of rules as a heavy ordinance gunships and heavy payload bombers is probably the stupidest thing I've heard today -- and I work retail.

[@jamescummings8082]

The day before I heard about the changes I'd finally painted my Valkyrie... at least it's pretty lol

[@TokyoRaider666]

They could just apply a rule that means you can't fly into the enemy deployment zone turn 1.

[@osogitzgraymane72]

This reminds me of the "open top nerf" from ... 6th? Not quite as murderous but just as blatantly stupid of anover adjustment that wont be fixed till probably the next edition. As you stated, this unessarily hurts transport flyers and makes them even more not worth taking.

[@EryxUK]

I've tried my Stormtalon a couple times under AoO and it's done well enough. I don't find waiting a turn hurts at all, but then I'm not facing truly competitive opponents.

[@aunderiskerensky2304]

i love mine and usually use white scars encirclement to turn one strike someone with it, hoping i can still do that. that would put white scars flyers at a slight advantage over others and kinda make up for the shaft we took with the whole doctrine thing. helps literally every marine army except ours who don't even get half our chapter doctrine until at least turn 3 assault doctrine. i guess until i see a specific "this stratagem no longer works" im probably going to run it.

[@justinmaitland7335]

Salamanders, stormraven drops Bray'arth Ashmantle and 3 melta assault Centurions... Now it's even worse

[@PT84]

Harpies got the triple nerf. Two rules nerf and points nerf. Every time GW had them in stock in their web store the model sold out in 30 minutes. Now they’re in stock and no one is buying them 😂

[@ericrhinehart9155]

Drop all fliers points especially Valkyries

[@vailenlives]

Positional relay allows tau to get a bomber on t1

[@selorkiith4461]

Seems like Flyers are reduced to only be played in Meme-Games or very casual games, everything else would mean wasting time and points...

[@bobamer932]

i was planning on doing an imperial guard alphastrike list that had two valkyries grav-shoot three squads of missle launcher heavy weapons teams and a platoon command squad somewhere far up the board, but this effectively ruins it. honestly disapointing.

[@TheTrueArchonFTW]

Dosent change how i play my doomsythe. I would put it in reserve anyway cause otherwise it gets shot down turn 1.

[@freybrand1617]

Can't be on the table turn 1, cant have units disembark from the ones with transport capacity till turn 3, typically will die from all the crazy shots out there on turn 2....yeah mate, my darktalons and stormraven are sitting on the shelf.

[@LoudLoveTaps]

Doomscythe still shoots strong I believe

[@leSmokySmoke]

so what if instead, flyers can come in turn 2, but they MUST move as they come in from one side that is not your opponents and can therefore also bomb.

[@crandoodledaddy.6243]

Because hell drake's, hell blades, hell talons, lightings, Valkyries, marauders, xiphons, storm eagles, thunderhawks, storm ravens, etc are sooooooo fucking good aren't they. What the actual fuck.

[@BillWD]

All I wanted is for the coolest plane in the whole of 40k to have its time in the sun, just once 😭😭😭 I am of course talking about the Corvus Blackstar 🖤

[@logansmall5148]

I love mine, but sadly these nerfs have made them worthless for their primary purpose.... Transporting troops.

[@raistlarn]

Well I literally bought mine a month before the nerf. I'll ask my friend if I can use the previous tyranid rules to have at least 1 game with my Harpies.

[@spyfox10101]

Isn't vary harmful for orks Blastjet. Being unable to make alpha strike is a solid swap for guarantied beta strike. Other ork planes are still garbage.

[@timcavileer7024]

Looks like I’ll be saving my money and not buying a Stormfang or Stormwolf for my Space Wolf army.