SO Was It A Husqvarna 572 Autotune Issue ? Are Modded Saws More Reliable That Stock?

Рет қаралды 2,696

Күн бұрын

Пікірлер: 80

@davidcarpenter8741 Күн бұрын

Walt's approach always puts his customer first, giving him the proper foundation for educating us curious students of the saw so we don't make these mistakes. you have to respect that! Thank you!

@steveroberson1979 24 күн бұрын

Thanks 4 sharing! I can't imagine putting a cylinder thst looked like on a my own saw let alone a saw that going to someone else. What happened to honesty is the best policy? I appreciate u bring this to the table and I respect your knowledge and Respect your process to the fullest!

@jamiedalluge9472 6 ай бұрын

Sawdust is a crazy good heat insulator. Clean your saws regularly!!

@matthewknight5641 4 ай бұрын

And thats me ... Trying to learn and just having fun as a hobby. I'd never try to sell modded saws as my name and reputation means alot to me and I wouldn't want people's income affected by something I'd messed up on

@bumpkinrocks 6 ай бұрын

Interesting analysis sure makes alot of sense. The machining finish on that cylinder is appalling looks more like he used a file😂

@matthewknight5641 4 ай бұрын

I wish I could get a 562xp mark2 that was really high performance and where the crank was balanced so well you could hardly feel it running. I bet it would last a long time being balanced so well and it would be the perfect size saw. I have a 550 mark2 and it's amazing for a 50cc saw but lacks a little in ability with larger size firewood. I love the 550 tho

@oakiewoodsman 6 ай бұрын

Very interesting and informative. Thank you Walt!

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

Oh boy - ya opened a can of worms now Walt 😂 … I’ve been using/preaching the “thinner” base gasket idea vs the mandrel/turn the base concept as a means to alter squish / raise compression (if desired) for years for precisely THIS reason … I’ve encountered these shoddy , lipstick builds on more than one occasion. You’ve paid handsomely for what amounts to little more than a ticking time bomb. In my younger years I worked at many job shops as a machinist on cnc and manual machines and this garbage definitely would not meet Husqvarnas’ geometric tolerances , I can 100% guarantee THAT. A coordinate measuring machine with .0001 accuracy would separate the wood from the chaff very quickly! Unfortunately, $$$ is the prime motivator here in the “saw mod” world where we witness a quick 30-sec cookie cut glamour video as the “evidence” of increased performance. From my perspective 3 things must be achieved in order to claim victory on a work saw build : 1) increase in cut speed of 20-30% thru the timber , 2) excellent fuel economy , 3) longevity near that of a stock saw. It’s not that difficult to obtain #1 but if in doing so #2,3 are sacrificed then what did we really accomplish? If we are being intellectually honest , The fastest saw is going to cut the Most wood using the Least amount of fuel

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

The hate is already pouring in... :) But I'll just delete the messages. Keeping the channel positive. AND the point is made and will enter into the conversation now. The goal actually :)

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

@@afleetcommand if you possess a machining background then you understand WHY using a thinner base gasket avoids the problem entirely especially on an everyday worksaw. Cometic in Ohio can make you copper base gaskets down to .003 for a reasonable fee and more importantly peace of mind for yourself or customers. I’ve checked a few older STIHL cylinders and the tolerance was remarkably tight , like .0002 - these new cylinders aren’t nowhere near as precise and we can see the results of a piston inside of a bore that’s not in spec. The saw probably ran like a raped-ape … Until it didn’t - fortunately we can now check the EXACT runtime hours on these newer saw via the CST and because of this fact it appears walls are quickly closing in on some of these hacks.

@jamiedalluge9472 6 ай бұрын

Hey Fabz what's up buddy? Been awhile since we got any new videos looking forward to some new content

@camrynrhodes798 6 ай бұрын

Yep you hit right on the head 👍

@davidsebestyen50 6 ай бұрын

Walt I have a question for you. When you do a base gasket delete on a model 55. Do you grind the cylinder for the crankcase to get the impulse signal back for the carburetor?

@w6qd 6 ай бұрын

How did Walt get thinner gaskets? Aftermarket? Made his own gaskets? 1184?

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

ebay

@jonathanhensley8685 6 ай бұрын

Very good point sir I’m nervous cutting every base for fear of something moving after all of my careful indicating it is the 800 pound gorilla

@coreycorp7048 6 ай бұрын

That cylinder base looks like it was cut with a hoof rasp , thats some nasty work.

@oakiewoodsman 6 ай бұрын

This was an interesting video sir!

@ironcowcrawford638 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for the video Walt.

@StuInTheSticks 6 ай бұрын

Thanks for saying what needed to be said calling out these saw butchers because that's what's going on, there's to much of this already. Sad part is these guy's are destroying a lot of good oem part's like you mentioned but some of which are saw's that are the "classic series" saw's that are NOA part's for no good reason other than ego's. Worst part is people are getting taken of their hard earned money for this foolery and sub par work. One last point what I'm finding out is these "guru builder's" have a fan boy following and if anyone even dare's say anything in truth these follower's go on the attack. Lately it's gotten to the point if I post anything with saw content on my own channel something as simple as basic saw maintenance or just talking about a series or family of certain saw's that has nothing to do with their hero, I get verbally attacked by the follower's of these guy's showing up in the comment's calling me a know nothing idiot that's just copying one of their hero's sheesh. I could care less what other's do I'm just going about what I've done long before KZbin came along, regardless if I want to talk about something I'm working on that's my right and my channel; be dammed if these jackasses are going to run me off.

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

I've seen that behavior in everything from saw mods to felling. :) Like I said, I'm retired so really couldn't care less what the fad driven "fan" boys of one on line guru or another think. The only people I care about are folks who are subs and would like to have a little fun. Some just take this stuff too seriously.

@StuInTheSticks 6 ай бұрын

@@afleetcommand Yes you'll find that kind of behavior from people in all aspects of life not just in the saw hobby, a waste of energy that I don't have to spare so I just go about my own business as best I can. Take care stay safe and good content as always.

@treebender261 6 ай бұрын

Love it when you are in the shop speaking your mind.

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

You encounter a LOT of these fan boy cult members here on the inner-tube , especially with chainsaw mods. The ignorant / arrogant “I” know better attitude is something to behold … to which I chuckle to myself : Fine , do YOUR WAY, I don’t care 😂

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

So when are you going to travel thu this area of the world? Wonder if I should try to gather a few friends and do a saw GTG again. More BS than work and a few tops to cut up

@BillsGarageWorks 6 ай бұрын

Good stuff Walt.

@petehendry4756 6 ай бұрын

If you really want to know you could make an inspection fixture and check it with an indicator.

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

Yup, make a round "flat" plate & arbor I can thread onto the lathe spindle, turn it like I do to the arbors, face it too so one is "square" to the other. Set the cylinder on it and measure with feeler gages under the flange. :) Like I said in the video, I'm not showing the tooling any more. Rather just show the thin gasket approach that gets to the same place plus or minus, that ANYONE can do. BTW did that for the 660's I was building, how I found out how far off those Hyped 660 aftermarket cylinder were out as far as they were, I showed in that video just using a true arbor & dial indicator. But made a fixture to check the others I was getting to test. Was a disappointing exercise at some level, but also enlightening on how much SLOP those Farmertec 660 cranks could tolerate. :) An education. Funny the "better" cranks I have in these 572's along with the tight tolerances in the case machining wouldn't allow as much run out on the bores as those cheesy loose & sloppy AM cranks. :) Those strong 572 bottom ends crush the piston first. Where the AM's would take out the rod bearings with way out cylinders :) Trivia that doesn't matter I guess but a product of hours of trial and researching that crap.

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

A CMM (co-ordinate measuring machine) would be best to check the perpendicularly of the bore to the base however this isn’t something most people own / have access to. You could secure the cylinder in a vise on a milling machine and indicate the bore dead nuts zero and then via the x,y axis handles an indicator on the base will show the introduced error. We must consider the long rectangular shape of the base on these Husqvarna cylinders and how just a tiny bit of introduced error can lead to bore mis-alignment and catastrophic failure. I suppose an expanding mandrel could be used vs a turned mandrel but even then … Using a thinner base gasket is the wise choice here in my opinion especially with the shape of the 5series cylinder base. You can experiment with different thickness gaskets and always go back to stock … and sleep peacefully at nite knowing the bore alignment is factory 😊

@Ketis1985 6 ай бұрын

Very good video. I really like the thinner base gasket concept and would only machine the base if i cant get good squish with thinner base gasket. I think people over machine these saws and thats because certain people claim that it is the only way and needs to be done to make them run good and if you dont do machine work you are cheating your customer. Well people are paying about good performance upgrade and if you get that without machine work why would you ever complain 🤔 just my thoughts.

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

I’ve been an advocate of using a thinner base gasket for years IF desired/needed. One can build a very strong , fuel efficient, long lasting saw WITHOUT machining - in fact , THAT is how they were all built before the advent of these “internet / forum” pay-for-porting services and all the associated nonsense that goes with the territory. It seems there is a group / cult that promotes machining as the be all end all and if people want to pay them $450-600 for a saw build then that’s their choice. Whoever made the face cut on this 572xp cylinder did a horrendous job and caused premature failure of the saw no doubt about it. Instead of machining , a thinner gasket would have accomplished the same thing and the saw would likely still be in service. This is not to say a base cut cannot be done , only that the machinist/ lathe operator must be skilled enough to know wtf he/she is doing ! We must understand that a chainsaw is designed to have a relatively long service life and is certainly lower output as compared to other similar cc engines (70cc saw 5.5-6hp; KX 65 dirt bike (65cc) 16+hp) and that modifications that increase cut speed at the expense of fuel economy and longevity are not desirable in an everyday worksaw , at least imho. I’ve bought a saws from eBay that occasionally pop up that were built by “known forum builders” who machine the base and cut the squish and ran them in my timber - ran well but nothing special about them , certainly NOT worth the $450- 600 vs build them myself 😂

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

Same really in retrospect. Another point missed it seems is there is a huge difference between the time in service for a hobby, firewood , racer type, even tree service type than a production logger as well. Mods that work and will last in a hobby/racer world will have a different metric in a production environment. So I can't completely discount the value of a modded & really fast saw if those "lower service life" roles are in play. Just my world and the folks I usually interface with are more interested in longevity & life with that machine over peak theoretical cookie cut times.

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

@@afleetcommand My M.O. is building worksaws that are easy to start in all conditions, hold a tune (carb versions) , and increase cutting speed without sacrificing fuel mileage and longevity which is most likely 95% of the “practical” users in the saw world . I’m not really interested in building race saws nor employing “race saw” build techniques in worksaws. Increasing air-flow thru the motor with the corresponding exhaust to let the engine breathe / run cooler has served me well thru the years as well as a prepared chain ( that’s another kettle of fish right there) … I have built a 660 pipe saw that rips but this is more of a toy / cookie racer / gtg saw and isn’t practical for firewood/tree work. I’m in agreement about the importance of the R/D aspect and to prove out the saws BEFORE selling services ……. It appears many are lured in by the prospect of a quick buck and really do not possess the background / skill set / experience needed to consistently build good performing, fuel efficient, long lasting saws and unfortunately we get what we see here in this presentation : saw hacks, butchers and charlatans

@Ketis1985 6 ай бұрын

For what i was referring was about work saws. I think people over do the machine work in regular hopped up work saws. Now if you want to have a chainsaw as a toy its a totally different ball game😊

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

@@Ketis1985 These stratos charged saws run LEAN from the factory due to their inherent design-basically a controlled air leak/ introduction of ambient temp air into a hot cylinder … To create even MORE heat by machining / increasing compression isn’t conducive to longevity of the bearings or the top end! The older style straight-shot dual or quad transfers 2 or 3 series Husqvarna or the pre “epa friendly” Stihls might be more receptive to this approach within reason - sweet spot of 160-180 psi or so static as measured on the gage. Consider the Husqvarna 585 manual carb saw … it only has around 130psi of compression STOCK yet cuts quite nicely. From my perspective the 572xp has very good port timing from the factory and most of the gains will come from basic mods to give the saw more grunt/torque … I’m not a fan of these high-revving / angry hornet 🐝 sounding machined wondersaws for a worksaw at all. On both 562xps I built a bolt on pipe (rowdy pipe) that along with some flow enhancements REALLY perked it up - run with / beat a stock 572xp thru the timber with 20” bars. This saw has a VERY choked up muffler from the factory however and most saws won’t get the pct gains in cut speed like the 562xp will. I’ll take what I have and go cut wood - 25% + increase cut speed vs stock and 12-15 face cord cut per gallon of Motomix makes for a happy Cat and a fat wallet! I have larger cc saws that will best the lil 59.8cc in this size (14-18”) timber but simply cannot touch the fuel economy-plus it’s a smooth runner that’s easy on the man especially if cutting for awhile.

@pantigersizzle5761 6 ай бұрын

So, are each cylinder/case a "matched pair"?

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

no, they are manufactured to a tolerance where they are uniform to where any case half will match any other and the cylinders will fit as well.....why I can do these junk pile video's

@wimkool3808 4 ай бұрын

And sometime same partnumbers have a version, like V1 or V2 added on the case half. My experience is that different versions are no good match.

@nateolmsted899 6 ай бұрын

Good stuff

@srcarr52 6 ай бұрын

You can tell from the surface finish the person has no experience with quality machine work. Did they cut that on a wood lathe?

@BGWenterprises 6 ай бұрын

Yep thats why dealers dont usually deal in modified stuff. . The lawsuit risk is crazy. As modifying a saw makes you the end manufacturer, and very much liable for damages if a person is hurt or a tree lands the wrong way because of a parts failure. . Selling a half baked modified saw, is a very bad idea. 0.01c

@larryw5429 6 ай бұрын

I've seen the same piston failure. Along with wrist pin clips and bearings melting cages!

@camrynrhodes798 6 ай бұрын

👍👍😎

@wimkool3808 4 ай бұрын

How about just open up the muffler, run it on aspen 2 with an aditional 1% of any good 2 stroke oil and leave the rest of the machine alone, it will give you the most lifetime out of that saw?

@johnhubbard8710 6 ай бұрын

Not sticking up for the builder at all but just so people know…. that top end easily cut 1 mil bdf. Maybe it would have cut 2 mil had it not been messed with.

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

That's the point, and the take away for me after looking at now both saws, those bottom ends are real tough. Wonder how many failures were accelerated by similar modification. Remember the one saw for certain had to get a short block, so that was a preme failure, and dead yet again. And I do remember having discussion with our mutual friend on those bearing failures. Found my notes on the event :) And it turns out it seems I called it right.

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

I seem to recall 1,000,000 board feet was equivalent to 651 full cords of firewood or 1953 face cords. Actual w/o runtime on the saw is averaging 5 minutes per face so doing the math we arrive at around 165hours of full throttle operation. That’s really not that impressive when you consider the fact that this particular saw is an expensive paperweight right now. Saw can be salvaged /rebuilt but most likely between new parts and labor it’s going to cost ! Built using different methods ya might be looking at a new set of rings or maybe not - depends on operator. Then run her for another 1953 face and this time replace the piston and rings. You should be good for 500-600 hours depending before it might be time for a shortblock and then ya get to start all over again ! Again these numbers are a rough educated guess and depend a lot on the operator and how the saw is being maintained. There are guys out there with 5-6 million board feet and the saws are still making man glitter ✨

@johnhubbard8710 6 ай бұрын

5-6 million bdf on a saw is impressive, not sure I believe it but doesn’t really matter. Expensive paperweight?? As a contract cutter, these saws are cheap for the money they are able to make for a guy. It didn’t bother me a bit when the saw went down. It had paid for itself numerous times over and still got a few bucks for it when I was done with it. Just different outlooks on it I guess. Some guys like to keep rebuilding stuff, others sell and buy new

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

Hoping it can be yet again a useful saw ( actually already have ). Seems to run pretty well after putting it back together with a new bearing & another good top end.. And that is the plan. Put it back together with a few new and a few used bits and pieces, then see if it will add value to my world. Honestly I'm glad it failed :) I got some bones to pick over and build stuff. I'll be on the look out for more "end of service life" 572's to show up, think of these as opportunities. :)

@fabzacres-blackcat 6 ай бұрын

@@johnhubbard8710 I’m sure the saw didn’t owe you anything after a cutting a million board-feet and I agree they are inexpensive vs the $ they generate over a normal lifespan. In fact I bought 2 brand new 562 mark 1 saws last fall with and they’ve already paid for themselves however I’d rather see them last for 500-1000 hours vs 165hours. That’s like saying I bought a truck that Jonny modded but screwed the pooch and only got 60,000 miles vs another same model truck that got 250,000 that I built myself , no way to square THAT circle no matter how you try and rationalize it - . I’m not a professional timber cutter by any means so I just related the lifespan the saw achieved into something I have done quite a lot of : firewood and residential work. The 572xp I built/cut with is quite capable of bucking a face cord of wood in 5 minutes and doing the math gives the number of hours of runtime at wide open throttle. Of course idling would add to the total runtime so the 163 hours is on the conservative side. Of course the saw COULD be plugged in to the CST and the actual hours of runtime known but this info wasn’t divulged in this video. I’ve never worn-out a saw before so it just seems odd that saw gave up the goose with (imho at least )very low hours. I’m in agreement with Walt’s theory stated in the video. Not trying to bash anyone - just giving an opinion. I know cutters over in Europe that have gotten 2500hours on saw (which would equate to considerably more than 5-6 million board feet ) and they are STIHL cutting - of course they are using aspen / motomix as fuel and the saws are stock … just sayin if I paid dearly for saw building services and received something that only lasted a fraction of the runtime of what it was supposed to because of shoddy lathe work from the builder I’d definitely be contacting him to make it right at HIS expense. That’s just my perspective though. At the end of the day It’s Your saw and Your nickel so ……

@FabAcres-Blackcat 6 ай бұрын

@novicelumberjack this you?

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

He had nothing to do with this saw :)

@pantigersizzle5761 6 ай бұрын

I've seen trees that beaver have chewed on that were smoother than that.

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

yup , I've seen better; but also worse :(

@FabAcres-Blackcat 6 ай бұрын

If one has the tools to actually cut the base, I would imagine they would check the face runout before they actually cut it… no?

@afleetcommand 6 ай бұрын

Watch a couple of the other channels doing this base cut stuff, your answer is there. For me run out was a priority so modified my fixture concepts to both minimize run out in a repeatable way and to reduce setup time. What other folks do and why is for them to rationalize :)