Soaring electricity prices and gas market uncertainty | Q+A 2024

[@perryanderson9103]

Power companies have been creaming it for years

[@ooo-vc4xl]

This is simply the outcome of: a) Privatising NZs power supply - there is no incentive to increase capacity when generators get paid higher prices the more scarce electricity is. b) Failure of successive governments to address the dry year issue c) Unsustainable net inbound immigration on top of a natural population growth As indicated in the article there have been no large gas discoveries recently. NZ would be far better off with a non-profit SOE running a system optimal generation system. The SOE would make the right investments at the right time.

[@timtowers7997]

100% correct. Thanks to Max Bradford and National.

[@MrDaragom]

B and C correct, although I disagree with A - it is simply too obstructive to consent anything new, whether that be hydro, gas, wind, solar, nuclear, you name it, someone won't let you build it

[@timtowers7997]

@@MrDaragom It has never been "too obstructive" to consent, if there's been the political will. The core problem has been privatisation, followed by that great tradition of Kiwi politicians, of sitting on your hands and doing nothing, until it all turns to custard. Consents were granted for wind and solar farms and not taken up by the generators. Also generators have not been regulated so that the more sustainable sources of generation are used first. Hence we've had the current situation where hydro generators sold off cheap power whilst wind and solar generation lay idle. We've even had instances where Huntly thermal generation has been used because their prices were lower than renewables. There has also been zero political will to encourage home based generation to maintain a power supply matching the low end of demand, leaving the generators to supply mainly at peak times. As with any manufacturing process, a lack of foresight, planning, and integration of production systems has led to the farcical mess we're now in.

[@crcooke111]

@@MrDaragom from what i read the four big power generators are sitting on 29 consents.

[@ethanwhite9647]

@@MrDaragom There's over 1 GW of _consented_ and unbuilt **tier 1** wind (≥ 40 % duty). A few years ago there was over 2 GWh (the consents expire after 10 years typically). The issue is not the consenting.

[@TheFalconerNZ]

Essential services should NEVER be in the hands of businesses as businesses are in it for the money. Selling infrastructure is a lazy way of governments to save money on their budgets but it costs the people there are meant to be helping in the long run. The best way to keep the cost of essential services down is to keep in the hand of government that run it at cost, not for a profit. The gas exploration that has been done has not returned the expected returns as those expected returns were INFLATED when applying for the rights to ensure they got the drilling rights & it will be the same with future drilling/mining; the promised returns will NEVER meet the actual returns.

[@Kiwi-Ahh-Nah]

Selling off assets and outsourcing are stripping tax payers of their rights and ability to afford to live in NZ.

[@annahouston9528]

Sell our assets is always a bad idea, it is only a short term solution that bits us in the arss every time!

[@nostoneunturned7181]

Import another 200,000 people from over seas, that will help the grid.....

[@kiwi2035]

who do you think works at the power plants? who do you think maintains the infrastructure? perhaps we should fix the issue, not limit our country for no good reason

[@nostoneunturned7181]

@@kiwi2035 I really dislike this position, and I hear it alot. This country has a history. We have been building our powerplants around the country since this nation began. For hundreds of years hard working Kiwi for generations have built the infrastructure of this country. Kiwi Built this country, Kiwi Built this Nation. Kiwi Run our powerplants. Recent Immigrants have had a smaller but meaningfull role, but not to be mistaken for building this nation. Slow Immigration down now. Let the Grid catch up, let the housing market cool down, lets increase GDP per capita by investing In Kiwis, not by increasing the GDP by importing tax paying immigrants.

[@badchefi]

You didn’t get the Memo that more people leave right?

[@nostoneunturned7181]

​@@badchefi That is a very new Phenomenon, caused likley in part due to the infrastructure and cost of living issues.

[@NiahTunui]

​@kiwi2035 what stupid logic lol

[@warrenwood3212]

The counters part was interesting “ huge amounts of energy used to produce its export”). That’s right, they use that energy, and huge amounts to provide cheap export milk powder. Their competitive advantage is the cheap energy, it is also a dairy system that dosnt need to pay its environmental costs of polluted waterways, soil loss , water consumption. If the true costs were calculated they wouldn’t be profitable and would not be using so much energy. Let’s also look at the huge energy use when these fabulous products , also including meats are out refrigerators in supermarkets that are open, without doors to make it” customer friendly”.How much energy do those supermarket refrigerators use to “ cool the planet!!” Honestly, we don’t need more power we need to think about the wasteful way we use this precious stuff. It’s not endless and it most certainly isn’t going to decease in cost over time unless your physics is different to mine!

[@NZ-ms3vc]

With great power comes even a greater electricity bill

[@CLove-mo7cc]

We saw Europe have the same winter time gas shortages, slyrocking prices, and people here thought we’d be Scott free? We all knew it was coming, every winter will be a shocker until supply increases

[@josh-a-roo1818]

I'm a 3rd generation forestey industry worker. We always get left behind and forgotten by the government. Whether it be being sacked without notice due to the overseas market, deaths from the result of piss poor safety standards and unrealistic targets. It is a really bad work culture that is rotten from the top.

[@waltervanderzandt8105]

Increasing the daily tariffs by the Labour government from $0.60 / day to $1.50 was one of the worst things what they could do for most of us.

[@bartdeking]

Besides setting up the hunger games in auckland. Dividing society in 2 camps. Pissing away money and printing 50% more currency and then calling it a "cost of living crisis" instead of a "jacindas communist actions crisis" all the green nonsense which is the root cause of the energy problems.

[@LWJCarroll]

Privatising the system designed as an overall cohesive total one, creating artificial competition, doesn’t appear to be working. ?

[@fleurosea]

Everyone can see the problem, except the people reporting and the people whose job it is to solve these sorts of problems

[@davehughes9905]

Why do you get Jacinda to font on these issues?

[@TF23lliot]

Humanity flourishes most when energy is abundant. Only then can we progress and continue to improve our future and livelihoods

[@jaymanilla289]

need to start putting our people first. nothing wrong with that.

[@LWJCarroll]

It is looking like the reality of using up all the natural gas here has arrived. ? Perhaps we need to change over to local solar on our homes providing electricity? Rather than us all relying on renewable sources backed by gas. ? 😊

[@jenshvas7956]

Not enough focus on wind in NZ. So much potential, yet almost no wind turbines around. Wind is the perfect supplement to a mainly hydro based energy supply.

[@Battleneter]

Mate Solar and wind are not going to fill this gap, and current battery technology is simply not good enough or cheap enough. Pumping money into increasing hydro storage would be far more sensible.

[@tuhoemaori2000]

But wait , lets charge your electric cars😒🤦‍♂️

[@tauiraclay4235]

All homes should be fitted with solar power, so these companies can work successfully without repercussions

[@bartdeking]

And having to pay to get rid of the access energy when no one needs it like in europe where this literally is the case?

[@mesodan]

@@bartdekingyou get paid to use electricity, what’s wrong with that 😂?

[@badjelly1027]

Every new build should be mandatory to have half a dozen solar panels and a water tank. That's a start.

[@bartdeking]

@@mesodan no they need to pay for over capacity. The amount they get paid at some time is very low as there is no demand yet a lot of capacity when the sun shines.

[@bartdeking]

@badjelly1027 you mean, everyone should do what they want. Go live in china.

[@mcgruff3309]

I thought all these windmills were going to save us? 🤣

[@kiwi2035]

the government isn't permitting them, communities are too upset about "ruining the view".

[@malcolmwhite6588]

@@kiwi2035 that’s not altogether true -just financially and the ability to build them there’s a huge factor I did the maths and it will take 60,000 wind turbines to completely power the grid how the load currently is- that’s without any future projections I can’t remember if I allowed for existing hydro or not but it’s replacing all thermal power stations at current cost- it will cost every New Zealand (not every household every single New Zealander) $40 a week to finance this at today’s dollars and that’s ongoing because with that multiple number the replacement means that you constantly got some out of service and some being rebuilt

[@mobbarley7517]

​@@kiwi2035that and they won't solve the problem

[@W_Bin]

Thanks for this critical information that no one else is telling us.

[@12671253]

people and media couldnt see this coming?

[@georgeorwell6869]

Who was responsible for turning off the gas?

[@davidk6264]

I thought that disbanding ECNZ was supposed to make electricity cheaper?

[@louiethered479]

Max Bradford and National lied like they always do.

[@louiethered479]

Existing oil and gas wells never closed. There’s no direct connection between declining gas production from existing wells, which had already seen a decline well before the ban on future oil and gas explorations was introduced. The fields producing oil and gas have lengthy permits. The last of the permits ends in 2030, but production could continue for decades if a discovery is made. All existing permits were protected under that legislation. It was about transitioning away from fossil fuels over decades to more sustainable energy. It should be noted that Winston Peters and Shane Jones supported it.

[@Smitty55888]

The silence of the climate cult is deafening.

[@hariseldon3786]

When gas and oil exploration was impacted in Taranaki a company from Texas called "8 Waters" (no, not 3 waters lol) canceled building a CARBON NEUTRAL gas powered electricity generator in Taranaki. I told the government at the time, I sent letters to EVERY POLITITIAN - warning them of what would happen - to no effect. IDEOLOGY over common sense and the good of the people. (The plant would have been built and operating by now ON CURRENT reserves - so the comment about "dry exploration' is BS. This is irrespective of Methanex).

[@bruceevennett955]

How do you get a carbon neutral gas powered generator?

[@hariseldon3786]

@@bruceevennett955 The "Allam Cycle"... Here we go: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allam_power_cycle Of course, when the alternative was/is burning a million tons of dirty Indonesian brown coal at Huntly to make up the shortfall - the whole thing is ridiculous... to use their own nomenclature, "environmentally criminal" actually...

[@gpsfinancial6988]

Like a house owner whose house burns down with no insurance a lot of large businesses have been caught with no electricity hedges (electricity price insurance). Like the house owner, they are whinging to the media about their choice to not insure. Even in the recent round Genesis said no large users bid for guaranteed supply.

[@flyingweed9671]

Is it time to start thinking about nuclear power? Perhaps we should begin planning for rolling blackouts?

[@chrismckellar9350]

New Zealand can move to 100% sustainable, environmentally friendly renewable power generation using hydro, wind, solar, geothermal, home and roof top and biofuel/gas generation using a network of local next generation of storage batteries. All that the forestry slash laying around, could be made into wood pellets to replace coal for Huntly and other current coal users. There is the investment dollars out there but this country has an addiction to think and plan no more than 3 years at a time and goes for cheap, quick fix solutions. No wonder the country is mess, it an ATM for global businesses to make healthy profits.

[@00ypc00]

Banning of oil and gas exploration is not the problem. Issue is the fact is we need more investment into renewable energy. Also, the fact that they have pointed out in the interview - the explorations in more recent times have not been fruitful.

[@louiethered479]

That's right. None of the wells were closed, the ban on future oil and gas didn't cause this issue

[@JohnsSoutheastMissouri]

The same is happening here in the US, I think we have all been sold out.

[@DossNZ]

The Southern lakes are filling.

[@louiethered479]

The NZ Battery Project was set up in 2020 to explore possible renewable energy storage solutions for when our hydro lakes run low for long periods. Aotearoa, New Zealand produces around 84% renewable energy, the previous The Labour government was working towards making it 100% renewable. New Zealand's first green hydrogen plant began production in 2021. National short sightedly scrapped the Lake Onslow hydro scheme which would have gone a long way in resolving the issues we face now. 'Waikato University professor Earl Bardsley said that he believed the power scheme would prove the most cost-effective way to address the country’s “dry year” problem, following the phase-out of coal and gas electricity generation.

[@louiethered479]

What was the reporter too scared to question National's lying Minister Simeon Brown on what they indeed to do about it?

[@dave24-73]

There wasn’t an issue till we went green.

[@Investment_Hedgehog]

Yet Huntly still wont crank up the power plant to, at least in part, mititate this....

[@louiethered479]

That was the decision of Genesis Energy.

[@rayjack49]

It's time for the power company's to UP the return power to the Grid for the home roof solor plants if I got a reasonable return I would put more panels on my roof 8.5 cents return doesn't encourage me to add to my system

[@pradeepmagan6951]

the govt mandate the SOE's to build new power stations

[@mrbr0skii923]

Thanks Labour.

[@kylebeetham3679]

Labour??? It was national who sold off the assets to profiteers, its national who are pushing more NON renewable energy.

[@louiethered479]

Labour didn't cause the issue, National did when they broke up the power industry and sold it off.

[@TanyaSymons]

Interesting to note power companies paying other companies to not use there electric boiler.

[@waltervanderzandt8105]

One off the green lights by the previous government was building an data center on the South Island which would need 12% off the electricity 🤔

[@kylebeetham3679]

Let’s go back to the Key government and assess whether selling off power assets was the right decision

[@erinapaul-w2k]

Great job government keep traming up with corporations yous get that mona ey an.keep the people poor

[@1unsung971]

How will further oil and gas drilling ameliorate climate change???????

[@erinapaul-w2k]

Noe black rock will own nz power soon

[@ursalee7348]

My power consumption is lower than the levies

[@titiwhai]

Where's Chloe?

[@bartdeking]

Thanks cindy!

[@andrepoon]

Decentralise the grid. Solar solar solar. It’s not difficult

[@quashmonkey]

Thanks labour....

[@louiethered479]

Labour didn't create this issue, National did.

[@Peter_Pepper_Love]

Both !!

[@louiethered479]

@@Peter_Pepper_Love Labour didn't break up the power industry and sell it off. it was National that did that. Existing oil and gas wells never closed. There’s no direct connection between declining gas production from existing wells, which had already seen a decline well before the ban on future oil and gas explorations was introduced. The fields producing oil and gas have lengthy permits. The last of the permits ends in 2030, but production could continue for decades if a discovery is made. All existing permits were protected under that legislation. It was about transitioning away from fossil fuels over decades to more sustainable energy. It should be noted that Winston Peters and Shane Jones supported it.

[@perryanderson9103]

Chris hipkins

[@louiethered479]

Hipkins didn't cause this. National did when they broke up the industry and sold it off.

[@gpsfinancial6988]

Big oil has spent $2 billion drilling dry holes in the last 5 years. If that had been spent on renewables and storage instead NZ would not be having these issues.

[@LWJCarroll]

Yes it looks like oil and gas has had its day and we need to move over to renewable’s in a big way. This also reduces our spend on importing these two which offsets against our overseas earnings from exports.

[@louiethered479]

Labour was making progress on the issue of storage.

[@Battleneter]

@@louiethered479 Labour was more interested in introducing racist looking separatist policies over caring for the energy needs of NZ.

[@louiethered479]

@@Battleneter Not true. In fact, you have described the National, Act, and NZ First coalition government.

[@Battleneter]

@@louiethered479 Mate, saying everyone is equal regardless of skin color or ethnicity is not racism, creating a Maori Health authority is. Health based on need NOT skin colour.

[@ThuderDragon2408]

If we seriously invested in Nuclear energy this would not be an issue

[@louiethered479]

Not true.

[@ianfaulkner238]

Blame the great green agenda for that.

[@louiethered479]

No, you are wrong.

[@perryanderson9103]

Meagan woods

[@louiethered479]

Woods is not to blame for this. No wells closed. The blame lies with National breaking up the industry and selling it off.

[@Jsttredingwater86]

Decrease the population or at the very least no more increases and all our problems will go away.

[@louiethered479]

rubbish

[@perryanderson9103]

Jacinda adern

[@louiethered479]

Jacinda Ardern didn't cause this issue.

[@ASW007-o5e]

Why is this tame given any air time?

[@adriansmith7604]

Labor CB GREENS stuffed gas supplies power supply total embiciles

[@ponowaikare489]

John key and his dumb idea and yet been dubbed a sir what a joke

[@bubbagump3793]

Hey! How about the power generation 😅companies give us the people the same DISCOUNT BELOW MKT PRICE they give for Manapouri power to Tiwai aluminium plant! Huh???????????

[@warrenmartin2982]

Cut back on the lighting Jack