Social media and Gen Z mental health

[@brianarbenz1329]

The worst, most dangerous effect of social media is when we feel prompted to post a vigorous comment responding..... to.... ah, never mind. I'm turning this off and going outside.

[@truefact844]

That is why you need a bot that represents your opinion. Then you can go out and still take part in debates.

[@TwisterTornado]

​@@truefact844 It would be much more efficient... 🤔

[@daviniusb6798]

I still don't get why someone would think that all humans on this planet screaming at the same time in one place would be good for anything. But I do get why it's addicting

[@checkoutoftheabove9809]

I like haveing conversations, not because of I believe I can change people's mind, because it expands my world view, I feel like we forget that when we left rage take us

[@checkoutoftheabove9809]

Let

[@Shawn.Grenier]

The anxious generation is also the loneliest (apparently, at least according to some studies). I'm sure social media is a factor in isolating people, but there's so many other factors: disempowerment, lack of professional identity (which is a term I've learned recently), even urban design! I love the "social media as an amplifier of our already existing social problems" point of view as it shows that, again, we're trying to reform our way out of social problems instead of attack their roots.

[@KeeseToast]

I agree with that senitment. I believe that social media is more of a "drug" that people turn to because of the other deteriorating material conditions they exist under. Urban design (along with housing prices keeping them tied to their parents house) means young people are less likely to build lasting relationships, due to a lack of 3rd spaces.

[@sabiha.sayeed]

There is also a serious lack of FREE third spaces in a lot of areas, so only people who come from a certain socioeconomic background are able to access them.

[@piccalillipit9211]

I was listening to a completely unrelated podcast and the specialist said "by the way - we need to STOP blaming social media for what's wrong with our children. EVERY country has social media not every country has these problems. The atomised societies with no hope for the future coincidentally have the biggest issue with social media, if you grow up with no hope why would no NOT lose yourself in 12 hours of social media a day...???" Coincidentally - I live in Bulgaria now where kids have a very 1970's 80's type outdoor life with few regulations, they have good education, free university, and hope for the future cos life is improving here and they don't have anything like the issues with phone addiction. Most kids talk to each other and play out most of the time.

[@piccalillipit9211]

@@sabiha.sayeed As I say in my comment - I now live in Bulgaria, the one thing there is an abundance of here its 3rd spaces, every shop has seating outside for people to enjoy their beer of the bag of chips they just bought, there are free outdoor gyms and playgrounds all over the place. Benches everywhere.

[@ville-c4u]

No one cares

[@Ivan_Macan]

Social media gave me a lot, opened my world and ideas, however I stopped using it (mostly) because I find its very architecture is evil. I hope we will manage to free the technology from the predatory owners.

[@lllordllloyd]

It's a great shame this tech came along when the US is hegemon. The social good is anathema... or at the very least irrelevant... to unfettered capitalism. I am 53 and my interactions with people were 99.9% polite before 2005ish. And occasionally, very interesting. Now I get abused every day in comment sections, and often I abuse back. Nobody can disagree with you without telling you you're an @$$£one as well. And you don't get much meaningful dialogue, because people can just run away. I have to see the hateful feeds of people I'd normally take in small doses, because I don't want to block them.

[@T_Dot94]

its all slot machines

[@jamesphillips2285]

Been putting off migrating from the site formerly known as Twitter to Mastodon.

[@ville-c4u]

No one cares

[@itsben9151]

yes exactly. because i am queer and live in a very conservative enviroment social media opened my eyes to the reality that there are more people like me. that im not the weird one, but then on the other hand it still negatively affects me in the sense that it reduces my attention span and makes me feel unproductive

[@SS-cu8se]

After having to take many social media breaks, I’ve accepted that social media to me is like alcohol to an alcoholic. I can’t casually scroll. Either I avoid it completely or I become an addict. As a result, I will be letting go of social media for good. The cons outweighs the pros imo and removing it from my life has made mundane things much more enjoyable. When I was on TikTok, I struggled to watch tv shows or movies because I couldn’t focus for long. Now, I’m actually enjoying watching movies again! It’s crazy how much these technologies are rotting our brain. It really does have an impact on us and the scary part is it’s very subtle. You don’t realize it until you’re at your wits end.

[@maxsonthonax1020]

Good. 👍

[@reachnandini]

You're so right

[@llama1312]

It's not just you.. idk how she didn't mention that these platforms are engineered to be addictive :/

[@jellevg-x4u]

Social media creates these socio-economic, hyperefficient markets that value certain behaviors/opinions. Maybe I am just crazy, but the moralizing little voice in my brain (which I believe to be partly imposed by my interaction with social media) has taken a much stronger presence in my psyche. It has come to a point where, even when I am writing in my own diary, I have involuntary mental urges to imagine how others would perceive it. I see a direct correlation between these urges and my social media usage. It hasn't always been like this. Paradoxically, I am, in some way, never truly 'alone' anymore (because of the presence of this moral gaze) -- and that makes me incredibly lonely. Physical interaction with real people is an excellent remedy to this.

[@jacarandav]

I hear the same voice in my head and it’s exhausting

[@721aktic]

It took me about 1.5 month of everyday writing to finally be comfortable in writing in my own diary for the same reason you mentioned.

[@JaneDoe-v7c]

honestly a great observation, the part about it being a moralising voice. moral =/= good, not close.

[@jellevg-x4u]

@@721aktic I'm honestly quite releaved to hear others are struggling with this as well. Glad you're comfortable with it now, I'm getting there too

[@jellevg-x4u]

​@@JaneDoe-v7c True, sadly it feels like we humans just simply do not have enough psychic attention to be aware of the complexities of the moral judgments we are exposed too, you know? Most of the time we realize the moralizing voice only in retrospect. I guess that little voice plays an important role as well in our society. Social media just took it into an extreme.

[@ayaelsayed9085]

Exposing the validity of studies that concluded that social media is directly causing anxiety is a valid conversation to have. But even if social media is only an amplifier to existing good and bad, I think the conversation around regulating its use by children and teenagers is still valid.

[@LienatheThird]

I agree with these comments about being addicted to social media, even after I’ll delete KZbin, Instagram, TikTok etc I find myself re-downloading them within the week or even by the end of the day. Super hard to get away

[@zak3744]

I also grew up in a smallish community, and I think it's relevant in a way that perhaps is counter to the positives you see. This was well before social media, and it was very apparent when I was (at university, basically) thrown into a mix with a load of people from various backgrounds. It was very apparent to me that the people I met from big city environments had a genuinely different (and to me strange) outlook on social interaction. For better or worse, they saw social interactions in your life far more as something you curated: there's a ton of people out there, find some you get along with, ignore the rest. This obviously makes sense in a big city setting. That was at odds with my experience of social interactions as things that are a given and that you have to learn to negotiate. There's only so many people in the village, and they're not going anywhere, so you're going to have to have _some_ kind of relationship with them, good or bad, so you might as well learn to get along with them as best as possible. For any townies reading thinking that sounds oppressive or something, that's not to say of course that you can't have favourite people who you enjoy hanging out with, it's more a case of how you approach everyone else. It's about being incentivised to find some kind of positive commonality, or if not then at least tolerating each other, or if not even that then disliking each other. What you can't do as easily is pretend they don't exist! Whatever else social media does, it seems to me that it does this "big city" thing on steroids. The online world is one sprawling 'metropolis' from which you pick and choose, and more importantly _ignore_ the rest. So sure, you can connect with your fellow political travellers (or any other chosen social group), and that is I think genuinely a good thing. But if that process also involves pushing those you _don't_ choose out of mind, to subconsciously start to believe they don't exist, and not to be forced to learn to bump along with random fellow citizens, is that a good thing? It certainly seems to me it is _a_ thing, which maybe needs considering!

[@UK75roger]

That's a really interesting contribution

[@maarrub9008]

I feel like this is mostly about what you do on social media and wich media you consume or interact with. But for me, the most negative thing is the desing to make it so addicting and taking so much of your time, far more than you are actually wanting to.

[@etienne8110]

This boils down to social medias being for profit private companies. Of course they d want to design the most addictive product to make as much money as possible. We need either a public curated social media or laws to make private ones non for profit.

[@cerdic6586]

Social media added another dimension to reality - one that is like a surreal video game experience in which everyone is a potential competitor to level up against.

[@brunchfordays]

I like this take 👌🏻 completely agree with the ‘extra dimension’.

[@Jake7inchnails]

right. something that isn't real.

[@isabelletenorio2911]

A very basic rule we learn as psychologists in college is that correlation doesn't imply causality. If we are talking about policies for the youth we should walk hand in hand with responsible science, as well with families, educators, social workers and even the said youth. Great video, Alice!

[@brigittastone-johnson7683]

Had the think a bit as a teenager 20 years ago. What did teens do. Gossiped, bullied, listened to music our parents hated (metal mainly) some drank, smoked at school, took drugs bunked off, partied. I played sports, studied, made art, did crafts, and this was in a small town in middle of knowwhere South Africa. Some kids had mental health issues, some kids had undiagnosed learning differences. A lot of this happen with zero parental knowledge or supervision. I’m genuinely in the camp of its inflated. The only difference is that there seems to be more acknowledgment of the issues. More ways to help those who are flailing a little. And perhaps more parental involvement than there perhaps should be, Kind of like my grandmother talking about being a young wife in the 50’s, her words well most men got wasted after work, their their wives took valoid a lot, or drank or both the kids where neglected and abused a lot it was a bad time, and what is worse was no one spoke about it. The more I understand about my mother and her siblings child hood the more I think how have you not been in therapy for 50 years, Most of us more or less, somehow arrived in adulthood more or less functional, members of society.

[@Liisa3139]

Even if I don't use a smartphone at all (and I don't), society operates on the default assumption that "everybody" uses it. So, I'm expected to download all kinds of apps to get very basic services - like buying a bus ticket. Nobody seems to care that there are many people who can't do this even if they wanted to. Not just among the elderly.

[@toriiavic9367]

Where I live I must have an account in government website to access library. I wanted a nice paper card, but have to use a QR code. Ruins the experience a bit.

[@TheQuietPartisLoud]

This exact topic has always been really interesting to me. I feel like, more than social medias as applications themselves, it's the underlying algorithms that really determine how a person will actually interact with said applications. If you decentralize an app from infinite growth and extraction of time, lowkey talking with people online is probably just fine. It's when an algorithm places engagement at the forefront, that shit gets out of hand.

[@gusgablaw7375]

'Kids are depressed because of social media' dude have you taken a look outside?

[@ssadina-shtukaturka]

I did. Everything is ok outside. All the shit I know I know because of the social media

[@OccultEclipse]

@@ssadina-shtukaturka So it isn’t actually okay outside, you just aren’t ignorant because you’ve found out how bad things are on social media, but ignorance isn’t bliss. Climate change, rampant capitalism, war, pandemics, etc. aren’t going to stop just because you stop going on social media.

[@lawrencehan537]

Lmao the healthcare, education, environment, wars, genocides and economic and more are just fine but social media? Thats too far.

[@Mar.Sanford]

​@@lawrencehan537 The world has never been a good, safe place. The problems you mentioned have always been here, and yet something changed - so much more people suffer from mental health problems. Is it more common diagnosing or something else?

[@ahmed51988]

As a gen Z person who has mental health problems reflected in, and exacerbated by phone addiction, I got unlimited access to social media and the internet quite gradually (economic reasons), and I recall me struggling with anxiety, fitting in, stress managemet, etc..before obtaining full access to the internet. The access to the internet and screens represented an unhealthy quick way to feel good, and this made me addicted to the phone and unable to deal with tough emotions. It created a bad feedback loop. My mental health failures made me more dependent on screens that on their turn, reinforced the avoidance coping mechanism. I do believe that social media represents an unhealthy coping mechanism that prevents us from facing the real disconfort of healing. If one can not confirm the causality, one can not demy that actively reducing content consumption is key to addressing one s mental state. Being exposed to screen WHILE having mental issues intensifies them and creates further issues.

[@ssadina-shtukaturka]

THIS

[@aberosmuchos7062]

Great copypasta, but youre also the generation that thinks that other ppl give a shit about your misery *wheeez*

[@aberosmuchos7062]

"My mental health failure", dawg, being anxious isnt a mental health "failure". Maybe go outside more if youre anxious lmao, yuno, touch grass

[@ahmed51988]

@@aberosmuchos7062 Ok 👍

[@jordanrehbock5552]

I'm sorry this has been your experience; I think you have presented a very apt analysis of the situation as a feedback loop

[@noumansaghir6382]

I started reading a book named "Digital Minimalism" and the author quoted many experts of the relevant fields stating that Social media is made in a way similar to a slot machine and it has effect of mild addiction with all these like, comments and Colorful icons. I think everyone would agree that social media has very dangerous potential of exploiting mental health. It should be regulated in some way. I think the real debate should be about the 'way ' or method. Social media apps should not be left completely unchecked.

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

Mild? I think they're very addictive and not just the interaction, but also the consumption of content that's distracting from real life, numbing ones feelings.

[@mikolasstrajt3874]

I once read an article about kids which using Google Docs for communication when their school computer lab banned social media.

[@buttsauceable]

Why not just use email if they had access to google

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

But Google Docs isn't social media.

[@brunchfordays]

@@Anonymous-sb9rrGoogle Docs is a tool the same as any social media. The way they utilised it made it social. If people only used Instagram to store photos without discourse or reaction it would cease to be social media. The things we have are all tools, it’s how we use them that gives them meaning.

[@rahbeeuh]

​@@Anonymous-sb9rrthey used it like one 😉

[@henricobarbosa7634]

Leaving a lost comment about methodology, it is actually possible to draw conclusions on causation from observational studies, but as expected, one needs to carefully consider which variables to collect based on theory and previous studies. Is follows abductive reasoning. The statistical technique is called Directed Acyclic Graph (DAG). It can also infer causation from translational studies, not only longitudinal ones. But the kind of causility it infers is "regular causation", where the presence of P increases the probability of Q happening, instead of deterministically causing Q. One good introductory book on the subject is "The Book of Why" from Judea Pearl.

[@kmjgsdkmjgsd]

Social media’s prohibition and deletion doesn’t solve any social, enviormental, or economic disaster. We will just be angrier and more anxious without the ability to find like minded people.

[@aleksandra7255]

The biggest issue I see here is that people who advocate for these radical solutions are older men who are mostly not involved with children and teenagers and has probably never been. Also concerning the power relations, they don't want to ban social media for everyone, they themselves build their careers on it and enjoy its benefits, they want to control young people in yet another way. They are not in any dialogue with children and teenagers, they don't see them as people at all, they just command adults to take away a very big part of modern existence from a particular group of people. Can you imagine any other group of people to be treated this way? That is sickening in my opinion, especially taking into account absence of clear scientific evidence of social media contribution to depression

[@caiden3396]

My guess is people in homogeneous groups who are uninformed, disinformed, and/or isolated and insulated from much of society who come across it and think it's a good idea. It'll alienate, isolate, and insulate people from each other further and further hinder efforts to access certain information. Even with the problems of sm, having no access to it will be worse. People may find ways around restrictions, but it's not like people can do that forever. I mean look at what happened to housing.

[@Napalmdog]

Thought; Social media grants access to a larger population to compare ourselves to and more often. How can this not make impressionable people more self-conscious and anxious?

[@makkerfelix]

Also because people tend to only post the best parts about themselves

[@sofitssofi]

As a teacher, I am all for banning phones inside schools because there's no way we can compete for attention with the whole internet. We shouldn't be entertainers in the first place, but that's where we are right now. For two years we have been collecting the phones from our 8th and now 9th graders and they are significantly happier, calmer, and more concentrated, with better grades and a much better relationship with their teachers. It's night and day.

[@moiracampbell996]

This is my experience as a middle school teacher as well. We have a provincially mandated phone ban in schools and the hallways and classrooms have been so much more peaceful and productive.

[@brokenenglish7242]

I just love how whenever topics like this are discussed, what children/teens actually want never seems to matter at all, like no one ever asks them anything and then we're like "why are they so anxious about being forced to do whatever "adults" wants them to do all the time? And all that while being gaslighted into acting grateful for it too"😂 I'm 27, so no, I'm not a kid anymore 😋 and in Romania we had that happening, we had to put our phones on the front desk near the teacher. It made everyone frustrated and angry and coming to school started to feel like prison. It's invasive and controling. I think the way adults in general always invalidate what children express they want or need is honestly one of the biggest factor contributing to poor mental health and a ton of anxiety. Under the disguise of "protecting children", teachers/parents/tutors would do anything to make things easier for themselves(without adressing the real problems, like their unfair wage and lack of training). Instead they would rather just go ahead and confiscate children's possesions, control every aspect of their life, while simultanously ignore acting and protecting them from real danger like bullies/harrasing/cyber-bullying. Even here, teachers talk about "competing with the internet" for their attention, rather than social media being used to harrass students, cyberbullying groups etc. This being said, teachers should be paid more and have (much)better training available to them. Their wage is a joke, so no wonder their performance is weak as hell 🤷‍♀️

[@Abcdefg-tf7cu]

​@@brokenenglish7242 We should allow children to have candy for breakfast, lunch, and diner every day. Adults have no right to tell them what to do. It was abuse for my parents to make me eat brocoli instead of cupcakes.

[@ag8454]

​​@@brokenenglish7242What children want or think they need is very often unhealthy/bad for them. You simply cannot do well in school if you're distracted by your phone, this is a fact. It's not violating what children need to temporarily take their phones during class time and give them back. In fact it's ensuring that they get what they need - an education. I think it's frankly insane that you as an adult believe what you typed out. Confiscating phones is also absolutely not the cause of anxiety in young people. It's a symptom of their phone addiction actually - they're anxious because they think they need their phone (due to how social media apps are designed to make you addicted). The fact that you, as an adult, think that students effectively experiencing withdrawal from having their phones taken away is a sign that we need to let students have their phones and be distracted is just so crazy to me.

[@moiracampbell996]

@@brokenenglish7242 I think you are making a lot of assumptions about the motivations of educators and the impacts of phone use on school culture. I'm a very skilled teacher and work tirelessly to motivate, educate and inspire my students. I treat them as human with needs, wants, and people deserving of a voice. However I also know through my education and experience (not to mention being a child myself once) that young people are not always going to make the best choices for themselves and their education. It is our job to guide them and help create structure and boundaries so that they can build literacy, numeracy, social skills and knowledge of the world around them. In my experience working with young people and talking to them about their lives and struggles, phones have become an interference in their educational and social spaces.

[@gav-gf7cr]

I don't know what to make of it... I'm 50 and have been on various social media for some 25 years (so not starting with it as a teen), and the impact on my life is overwhelmingly positive. I've been able to connect with people I share interests with & even make real life long term friends thanks to social media. Maybe because I use them in moderation and as an extra, not a substitute, for off-line life?

[@vikasaelens362]

Maybe we could also take into account that there is a growing acceptance towards being open about mental health and anxiety? To the point where psychologic discourse about mental health is also spread through social media... This creates a wired web of causes and consequences.

[@Bojoschannel]

No

[@Bojoschannel]

No

[@vikasaelens362]

@@Bojoschannel okay fair

[@slothoverlordz2051]

As someone who grew up in a rural area in Australia, there were a lot of conservative views around me and without social media I likely would have ended up conservative due to the lack of liberal/left-wing views that were in the public space. Social media also helped to keep the country up to date with what was happening around the world without influence of News outlets with specific agendas

[@humanbeans7952]

I’ve been watching your channel for about a year, I love the work you do! Please keep it up we need more people fact-checking and questioning 🙏

[@dunkzx1624]

Thank you Alice for this video. Rather having answers that straightforward or “necessary” may be true in moments of time. But with this phenomenon of human interaction and experience. Answers of now may prove tragic or be great. But often such action on a multitude problem can be quite audacious. Rather maybe incrementally, video like this and discussions not on a societal level but as well on an individual level is start. Either way Socrates is a good lad in saying “the unexamined life is not worth living for” :)

[@jordanrehbock5552]

Wonderful analysis, thanks Alice for another fantastic video. I think an element that bothers me the most with social media is algorithmically-based content presentation and moderation. Not only does social media amplify the horrors of the our age-- genocide, climate crisis, transphobia, gun violence, etc.-- but it also controls when and how you see these things. I for one, due to my interests and activities am constantly exposed to the above content, often through critical content such as this, but it means I'm constantly looking at these issues which are less present in but not absent from my immediate community. This gets me stuck in a loop of engagement though, which means I see more ads. I leave the loop feeling exhausted and depressed. Not only are these apps extracting money from me through ads, they are also dictating what I do with my time. Personally, I am done with the fact that it has eroded my attention span and monopolized my free time outside of work. I deleted Instagram last week because of this.

[@christianspanggaard]

I love your content and learn a lot from it. Thanks for kindling my "healthy skepticism", as you put it in this video. That is also why I donate to your patreon monthly and have done so for quite a while now 👏 I do find it a bit funny that you have a 14 minute video debating the (mostly negative) impacts of social media ending with Squarespace, a platform dedicated to "growing your presence online" and highlighting that you have added your social media accounts to your own website. It does feel kind of off to me personally and normally you do manage to find more fitting sponsors. Good job on that :)

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

The right thing to do would be to ban ads, because ads incentivize companies to keep people on their platform for as long as possible, thus to make them as addictive as possible.

[@mozismobile]

I'm always really curious about the definition of "social media" used. I tend to say any mediated communication, whether it's letter written on paper or an email list. Mostly because I think that separation is the key factor, with the immediacy and ubiquity being secondary but also important - the dopamine hit of notifications, for example. But see also the English upper classes when postal mail was delivered 10 or more times a day.

[@graypawn]

I love this conclusion - I've been discussing with friends for a while about these different factors in our relationship to happiness and anxiety. And the fact that the Internet is an "augmenter of what is already there" seems so hard to keep in mind. *Any* new form of communication that increases our collective awareness of suffering and entropy is going to come with an increase in anxiety, right? If the conclusion is that social media makes us more anxious, why not remove ourselves from all media, and live in an absolutely uninformed, disconnected state of bliss? Really love these essays. Thanks for putting these thoughts out there.

[@jordanrehbock5552]

I get worried about disconnecting when considering it as a kind of "ignorance is bliss." Then, I think about how not being on social media won't fully make me unaware or uninformed, but just not hyperaware. There is certainly useful anxiety in face of these issues that manifests as, "wow, I need to take meaningful action," and useless anxiety that instills a sense of powerlessness and insignificance in people. I think social media might mainly inspire that useless anxiety.

[@graypawn]

@@jordanrehbock5552 perfectly put - agreed

[@pendragon2012]

I get the well popularized belief of its negativity. But I also have been able to reach outside my narrow circle of beliefs and friends because of it. So I’d say it evens out.

[@annf2220]

Yes, I agree. The advancements in technology over the past 20+ years is impressive. I have also learned a lot from social media, and some of that information has actually benefited my personal growth and mental wellbeing. I think it just boils down to using it in moderation/in combination with other activities that are not on your device (but that's also super hard since everything is basically online) and being mindful of what you actually consume. The issue is doing those things is hard because social media provides an easy distraction from life's constant stressors and problems, so why would you want to do more stuff when you're already tired?

[@tualonsousecret]

Yes. For adults it usually evens out. But consider teens. They famously lack the necessary self control and moderation to use social media wisely.

[@pendragon2012]

@@tualonsousecret Oh of course. But as mentioned in the video, making it illegal won't stop them from engaging.

[@ImmaSkram]

@@pendragon2012Yes, immediately sure. But taking it away from kids under a certain age (kids who currently aren’t already attached to their phones) would be beneficial to our current society.

[@pendragon2012]

@@ImmaSkram I get what you're saying, but I work around teenagers nonstop and you wouldn't believe how savvy they are when they want something. The glowing box confuses them when I say, "Log into Google Classroom, do the reading and answer the questions," but let them need to get around blocks to find the music videos they want to see or the mindless games they want to play, and they're engineers Bill Gates would want to hire.

[@cedaremberr]

The problem is the heightening of capitalism has lead to the disappearance of free places to gather in public. The only places we can gather is in digital spaces that are subsidized by the attention economy. Our every waking moment has been monetized. Kids and teens in particular have had difficulty finding places to safely gather without being managed and monitored by adults for a few generations now (basically from the birth of the suburb). Social media has given teens a place to gather, which is great in some ways, but it's incentives are driven by the corporate profit motive, not the needs of teens. Everyone is lonelier with the destruction of public places (and the communities those places enable). But without those places adults can still find ways to gather that teens don't have access to. So they're lonelier, and hungrier for the digital meeting spaces.

[@marinadaniliuc7487]

Thank you so much Alice. I have been waiting for you to say something on this book for so long.

[@abrahamu.numbers562]

As someone who spends an average of 10 mins a day on social media, I'm starting to feel like a space alien

[@madeleineblue1340]

can relate

[@ssadina-shtukaturka]

Wow how did you come to this?

[@abrahamu.numbers562]

@@ssadina-shtukaturka social media is a drug, it changes the way you think, feel, and act. It's like I've had a single beer when everyone else has downed an entire 6 pack.

[@ssadina-shtukaturka]

@@abrahamu.numbers562 well yes, obviously. I mean, how did you technically come to this way of life? How did you start limiting your social media time, how did you proceed, how it affected your life (in terms of communicating with those who spend much more time on social media), etc?

[@toqa6735]

I hate this anxiety, and i hate that it's not just me so now i can't gaslight myself into thinking otherwise

[@nias3202]

Thank you, Alice! I love your videos and your will to see the complexity of things. Personally, I agree. Social media has challanged my views and has helped me to relate with people. However, the documentary "the social dilemma" on Netflix showed me that social media can be the problem itsself. The built in reward systems of apps and websites makes one constantly question yourself: Am I still being liked? Also the danger of falling into bubbles and certain dubious believe systems is too high. Actually, this causes a disconnection from people, as it becomes more difficult to have a conversation. "A short history of mankind" my Noah Y. Harari showed me that seemingly human advancements can actually worsen the quality of life. He mentions the shift to agriculture as an example. It's complicated:)

[@european_lion_123]

Personnaly, I’ve generally had a positive experience with social media. It offered me the gay representation and queer community I needed to embrace my identity and share it with others. It also served as a platform for shaping my political views, finding youtubers and then book recommendations on topics like eco-socialism and activism, and accessing deeper insights on issues like the g**ocide in G*za. The downsides include early exposure to sexual content (although that's just the internet in general) which was often plagued by heteronormative norms and sometimes even tended towards fetishization. On social media, I've experienced like many others feelings of FOMO and constant self-comparison. But apart from that, I wouldn't have been better off at 15 years old without social media. I don't think banning social media outright is the right solution.

[@benjamin4018]

I would love a second video about this , maybe not looking at impact of social media but instead on how social media works. Looking at their profit model and how this actually proofs how it aims to trick our mind. There is a great hearing at the US congress where they ask Tristan Harris on the impact of social media and how this is deeply related to the design of the platform’s algorithms. For example the asymmetry of power created intentionally:) You are the best!

[@AbhishekSharma-sc7ki]

I'm on team "it's complicated" here. A bit of scientific rigour, especially with regard to statistical combinations of studies, is good. I don’t care what policy positions are taken, as long as they're not based on faulty methodologies.

[@PabloGambaccini]

The book is much wider than just social media, it's about tecnology, parenting, education, even urbanism. What Haydt advocates is that we are building a world that destroys childhood. I can see my students now that cannot interact with the real world... like even moving normally, don't have social skills, and lack curiosity, creativity or attention. As Hydt says, it's also fault of the parents that suffocate kids with activities and of society that builds cities that are really dangerous for kids to be outside... We have a carcentric culture and we lament that kids don't go and play outside... where? In the highway?

[@kmjgsdkmjgsd]

Even if we dont use an electronic device, the ethics and dilemmas and situations we are more considerate and put more pressure on would make you anxious af. Deleting Tiktok doesn’t solve student debt, stagnant wages, or eroding personal rights.

[@SaBeepah]

Strawman

[@Mila-OPetr]

Social media makes teens much more aware of those issues. The algorithm can start feeding a person lots of specific content constantly reminding that a certain issue exists

[@rangerred9022]

I concur! I think social media is an amplifier to our current society’s insecurities and anxiety. For instance social comparison has always existed. But platforms like Instagram causes users to constantly compare their lives to people they follow. Which can a user feel inadequate.

[@apolloc.vermouth5672]

Another potentially positive aspect of social media is that it's made youth culture much less monolithic and conformist (thus easing peer pressure) compared to when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s. Though of course that's dependent on al kinds of other factors in a young person's background.

[@Anonymous-sb9rr]

"we don't test results on large populations" But doing nothing is also experimenting on large populations. You could argue that banning social media until we know whether the harms are acceptable would be the neutral thing to do. That's how we treat new medication for example.

[@Elspm]

Yeah this gets into risk analysis rather than pure evidentiary discussions.

[@cohentheblue]

Should have banned the internet, surely. /s If anything, ban advertising and corporate social media that has harmful motives (engagement no matter the cost to people).

[@makkerfelix]

They could simply ban the algorithm part of social media thats programmed to keep recommending the most engaging content. It definetly wouldn't be missed

[@mair577]

Great video, very honest conclusion. It's relevant to note, that in Australia specifically (where I'm from), the pressure to cut social media for teens is in part, because of a number of suicides related to online bullying. It got a lot of media attention, and so there was a big demand to do something about it

[@FrznFury27]

Alice delivering a logical coup de grace as always

[@Durgenheim]

There is a lot of social media optimism that includes benefits from the larger internet and even basic functions (SMS, phone calls) from mobile phones. If these large, corporate platforms were all gone tomorrow, people would still experience virtually all of these benefits they claim that social media provides.

[@philip88154]

I disagree that social media only amplifies other problems. But even if that were true, does this question really matter? At the end of the day social media is making our lives worse and regulating the use of social media is a decision that could significantly improve wellbeing and is easier to do than solving the myriad of interconnected and deeply rooted societal problems. And it doesn't have to be one or the other; the regulation of social media is not going to stop the efforts to tackle societal problems, but could provide imo a significant mental health relief. I do agree however that now that the social media genie is out of the bottle, effectively regulating it will be difficult (but not impossible). This draws attention to the imo more fundamental underlying problem that technologies are developed and diffused without actually considering the impact on our wellbeing. No society can actually stop and say: do we want this technology? do the positives outweigh the negatives? What are the risks? etc. When it comes to decisions on technology, there is no real social realm, there are only the individual consumer decisions taken by individuals who are pressured by society and advertisements which exploit our human instincts to sell these technologies. Given that the hegemonic ideology in the world is technicism (the unquestioned faith in technology) suggesting restrictions on technological development is taboo in our society as it threatens the myth of progress and has the potential to lead to domination by more technologically advanced societies. This is the logic of civilisation which has caused and will cause so much suffering in the world. Addictive technologies which are harmful to us are by definition likely to diffuse throughout society because of their addictive nature. What will the next technology be that will cause widespread suffering? Why aren't we more skeptical about unchecked technological development? Finally I also take issue with your characterisation of the social media debate as a left-right issue. The divide rather is primarily generational and secondarily between liberals (in the sense of traditional liberalism) and non-liberals. There are plenty of issues on which the left favours reducing personal freedoms in return for social gains (smoking, gun control etc).

[@Kaito_Falcon]

I think a lot of the reason people attack social media is because it's radicalizing a lot of us quickly. It allows us to see the worst things happening (Like g-sides) and tells us who is funding them. I know I have social media to thank for teaching me way more about politics than my American public school did, without it I might still consider myself a moderate (Ew). I don't think social media is inherently bad, the profit drive behind it certainly takes out a lot of it's potential to be good though (Incentivizing certain things, blocking others, addictiveness, hindering creativity). I'm using social media to help get organized in a very suburban area, it's hard to just go out and meet people. It's a great way to do that!

[@lllordllloyd]

We used to find it pretty easy to organise before social media. SM makes the communication convenient but almost too much: it's easy to get a million people to sign a petition to remove dog-eating migrants. To feed homeless people? Less so.

[@Kaito_Falcon]

@lllordllloyd Interesting point. I'm too young to know what it'd be like before, and I'm new to it at the moment so I have yet to see how much people will participate. So I guess I'll find out.

[@lllordllloyd]

@@Kaito_Falcon Activism is ALWAYS a lot of hard work which can seem pointless. Pace yourself. A trap of social media in this space is how ephemeral it is: a lot of 'likes' or whatever might mean a lot less in terms of shifting decisions than one protest action or talking directly to a few people. Good luck to you.

[@Kaito_Falcon]

@lllordllloyd Thanks! I have been going to protests fairly often over the past year, so I do have experience there. But since it's been colder and the election happened, now I'm focusing more on building up mutual aid. It's unfortunately hard to do that in person in the suburbs, I do go to local events when I can but online has been more effective so far.

[@lllordllloyd]

@@Kaito_Falcon You will have a much better instinct for the best methods in your situation, than I. Good luck!

[@anneboyer6359]

Make sure also that your magnesium and potassium is not low. That can directly increase anxiety

[@makkerfelix]

Social media is great for connecting with people, even though comparing yourself with people can become a problem. But the big problem are the algorithms that make the platforms addicting

[@mariaelhage6033]

I think that social media had a great potential at being a lot better than they are now. I mean, just like everything else, they turned into an industry that monetizes everything and that makes you want to believe that your life won't be (or rather look) better if you don't own certain things, live a certain way, do certain things. and I just look at myself (I'm 25): I have the ability to say that yeah this is just for content, they did not have to pay for this product, etc., but the repeated shoving of ads and perfectly curated lifestyles and content about personal style and design and whatnot does get to me at times. just imagine how the more impressionable people feel! so, I don't think social media are inherently bad, but I think there is still so much to work on. not to mention one of their main benefits (using them for activism and to raise awareness), sometimes this much attention on this many important things happening around us + constant exhibition of immaculate lives and travels and photogenic lifestyles gets exhausting.

[@jenny_azoth]

Social media is both the only reason I'm alive and one of the worst things to happen to me lmao

[@musiqtee]

To me, SoMe is one of many (!) steps of increased “behaviour” based societal influence - related to the global north or “western” prominent political ideal. These platform economies aren’t aligned with “democracy”, nor do their influence or ownership follow legislative borders. Real borders for citizenship, sovereignty and some democratic influence. Corporations are indeed transnational, but in turn influence politics and policies - without being present and accountable. This sounds “liberating” - who wants borders…? Well, large corporations don’t, but (democratic) national institutions can’t cross them (that would be a war, right?). Most of us “hate” governments (caveats & simplified), so back in the late 80s we voted these liberties through - no state intervention in business. Here we are, 40 years on - and polls show “we” want even less intervention, more “freedom”… So does every SoMe and large (corporate) media platform - what a coincidence…? 🙄

[@liftedspirit984]

Love this so much, thanks Alice!

[@asciimage]

I think "Social media use" is such a broad term. So many other factors to consider before even trying to understand it's effects on mental health. For example: What social platforms you use How frequently/long you use them What kind of communities/conversations are you taking part in Whether it's your only medium of social interaction

[@bloomingpain-flower7074]

Every time I hear such statements I remember the story of the times of tsarist Russia, somewhere in the 19th century, I think. So we know that in the 19th century there was a dawn of the struggle of workers and peasants all over the world against exploiters, and ideas about this struggle were studied and spread by people from the intelligentsia. Who by that time began to wear suit jackets (also some workers and peasants started to wear jackets too). And in general there was such a rumor in tsarist Russia that some conservatives claimed: "We have so many problems in society, and why? Because men started to wear suit jackets, all the troubles are from suit jackets!" And this is only about clothes! How many similar conversations there were when the masses (or at least the intelligentsia) got access to books, to newspapers, and each time conservatives claimed that it was precisely because of these things that there was unrest in society.

[@DouwedeJong]

Andrew Solomon, also a psychologist, wrote a wonderful review of Haidt's book in the Times Literary Supplement. There seems to be a consensus that both authors often misinterpret the subject matter and yet they engage in it as an authority.

[@bendafyddgillard]

Yes. It's complicated, and social media is (like its name suggests) largely a medium for, rather than the source of, most of the anxiety. You can get a similar effect by compulsively refreshing news sites. However it seems possible that shrinking attention spans, endless scrolling, and the way social media is ever-present (on your phone, by your bed, in the bathroom, on the train, in the classroom etc), are _in themselves_ increasing anxiety by not letting us get a break from the awful, by reducing our time and ability to think things through, and maybe by brain chemistry (dopamine "addiction"). Anecdotally (sample size: one school), banning smartphone use at high school here in NZ has been largely beneficial for students, but probably that's more about distraction from studies than anxiety.

[@adamweilergurarye5422]

Thank you for the lecture 🙏🏾

[@DrustZapat]

Great video! Thanks for making it 😊

[@carl6589]

Stop using social media was the best decision I have made in the last 5 years. Life is bliss afterwards.

[@kezia8027]

I agree wholeheartedly that social media is an amplifier. It's the only explanation for how these sites can both provide connection, understanding, education and awareness on a level the world has never seen before. It also heavily contributes to some of the worst hate, fear, anger, division and isolation humanity has seen. As an Australian, I compeltely disagree with the under 16 ban. People will find a way around these laws. Hell, the Aus gov has "blocked" many pirating websites, but you don't even necessarily need a VPN to access these sites anyway. Prohibition never works, it just makes the problems you were trying to address more hidden and difficult to manage.

[@tersecwalsingham5778]

Great video. It makes sense to me that social media is more of an 'amplifier'. To me I think part of the harm is that these plotforms are entangled deeply with people's day-to-day living and that as you say, they don't exist to help you in any way, they exist to make money. I know it's wierd because it's kind of, 'opt-in' exploitation but it's definitely not nice to feel as though you have to use these platforms through social pressure or mybe for your work and you can't really do anything about it.

[@mcrumph]

This is a very complicated subject. But first... I have heard that comments help with ranking in the algorithm. All hail the Mighty Algo! Now, things today are very different than when I grew up in the 60s & 70s in upstate NY (US). When I was in forth grade I had the misfortune of encountering a bully. I won't go into details, but the situation was handled. It seems that today, either through social media or simply texting, that there is a lot more bullying going on, & kids nowadays don't or aren't allowed to handle the situation in the same manner I did. That is unfortunate. I don't know about Europe, but here in the US it is not uncommon to hear about a teen engaging in self slaughter, if I can use that phrase, due to what I will call digital bullying. That is tragic. If children are treated this way, removing them from the situation seems like the best thing to do. Like I said, it's very complicated.

[@SiWaZ]

The problem is not social media itself, the main issue is its business model that capitalizes on the weaknesses and problems of the people to make money, this amplifies the already existent problems in society and makes people feel worse about themselves and about their environment. It's exactly like casino capitalizing on people's addiction to gambling, except that social media and/or dating apps have no social stigma related to them and can be used in every second of the day.

[@dq96708]

Thank u! Appreciate the analysis

[@timcoultas1512]

Pretty sure we had a major financial crisis in 2008 which we only returned to normal median incomes in 2014. There's also been increasing inequality, and the climate crisis is getting worse. Plenty of correlations we can make. There's also fewer pirates on the seas.

[@ValQuinn]

Yeah, I'm a lot more anxious since I left the camaraderie of my buddies for a life on dry land.

[@williandefaria2079]

well thought out content. just wanted to comment to say, I love the way you say "people" lol

[@hippolytemartin1852]

Alice qui post PILE quand je vais cuisinier🙏🙏🙏

[@sleepingpotato942]

as an australian gen z person, its been difficult trying to explain to people older than me why this social media ban for under 16s wont help. people like to point at one thing and say its the problem, but social media isn't the primary cause of depression. it may be a cause for some, but for me, my depression came mostly from things outside of my phone, and finding community and escape on social media helped to soothe my feelings of immense despair. obviously my experience isn't the same for all aussie teens, but i do believe that solving problems in real life first will naturally lead to a better and safer social media environment. also social media companies should prioritise the good of their user base over profits, ad revenue and right wing propaganda. but thats just my opinion i guess.

[@guillermo.mserrano]

I was born in 2005 and I'm affected by this mental health epidemic. My brother is five years younger and while he's doing great, he has some friends who are in a very, very bad state. Really worrying to hear what he tells me about his friends. I didn't see that kind of stuff in my class when I was in high school (I graduated in 2022). I mean, maybe that's so because I was kind of isolated but damn, things are getting worse.

[@gonozal8_962]

Step 1: social media causes depression Step 2: we need age restrictions Step 3: you have to prove your identity for age restrictions to apply Step 4: your employer can research everything you say on social media Step 5: cut labor rights Step 6: your employer will fire you if you say anything against them (I don’t though, because my employer is infallible and so is capitalism)

[@ssadina-shtukaturka]

Steps 4, 5, 6 are already happening lol

[@Rebecca-u8e]

As a younger millennial, I definitely think social media has brought a lot of value to my life. It also does make me feel inadequate because I get into the trap of comparison. I don't like that many people feel a need to make their lives seem perfect. But I hate the criticisms that boomers and even some gen Xers have, because they don't understand the value it has brought us as well. I definitely think cyber bullying from peers is worsening the mental health of teenagers, and I've personally seen adults fail to address this issue. As far as gen Z and millennials go, I could easily see capitalism, fascism, and other social forces impacting our mental health just as much as social media. As you said, social media amplifies existing issues. Taking phones away or not allowing social media usage isn't the solution, it'll cause many kids (some with abusive/unsupportive parents) to feel more isolated.

[@waltonsmith7210]

I'm more interested in what social media under communism will look like. I think people scapegoat social media for the problems of capitalism.

[@digitalmila]

Social media isn't a public good. The platforms are owned by corporation that capitalize on the most valuable aspects of human existence; your time and attention. Wouldn't it technically be anticapitalist to renounce social media?

[@jccouture13]

To those with power over others, "true science" is clearly whatever doesn't shake the status quo too much unless its further advantageous in their favor. So that's all they fund and prop up with the media apparatus they also own.

[@Chronix-]

Social media doesn't make people anxious. People make people anxious. Where have i heard this argument before?

[@KynaTiona]

For me, whether social media has been a net positive influence or a hugely negative influence heavily depends on what you count as "social media". The message boards of my youth were social, but they were also cozy with a fairly small number of participants, so I'd hesitate to call them "media". KZbin is definitely an alternative media outlet to me, (risky as that approach can be,) but there's rarely enough interaction for me to honestly call it "social". So I don't typically think of either of these hugely positive things as "social media" in the same way as the utter hellscape that is Twitter or Facebook.

[@craigsb92]

Agree with this. I used music boards as a teenager that really helped shape my interests and tastes more broadly but they were nothing like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok etc. The innocence of earlier social media has been completely eroded.

[@lynnxe]

The problem with this discourse overall is that many of the studies act as if social media isn’t literally designed to be harmful and addictive, while prioritizing conflict - as though these design flaws, encouraged by late-stage capitalism, are equivalent to the whole of what social media could be. But given the lack of ethics and regulation on all social media, I think people are asking the wrong questions, especially those who want to see it disappear. I hate social media because of its anti-social design - that doesn’t mean there couldn’t be a GOOD design, and it might be better for us to focus on how to fix the design. It will always come with good and bad aspects, but as long as engagement is driven by profit and informed by bias, it will be terrible for everyone.

[@mornill-z1b]

Et si la "toxicité" des réseaux sociaux n'étaient en fait qu'un symptome ? (un symptome d'autres problèmes plus profond) Est-ce la cause ou la conséquence ?

[@marcodallolio9746]

Most studies in social sciences are unable to completely account for confounding factors. Humans and the systems they create are too complex and interdependent to actually isolate causation. The great replication crisis is also rooted in this intrinsic methodological limitation

[@valeried9741]

Plss say “Remy” 😢 that’s my favorite part of your videos

[@lllordllloyd]

Yes please.

[@emerbrkah]

its not about social media being existential threat but social media is ability of brinig out the worst of humanity and that being the existential threat THE SOCIAL DILEMA 2020

[@the-goddess-of-libraries]

I think for me social media has been a catch 22. On the one hand it has helped me to follow my dreams, educate myself when I wasn't allowed to go to school, and introduced me to all of my progressive politics. On the other hand I routinely feel terrible after spending any length of time on line, and I find that it stops me from doing the things that are actually important to me, such as reading, creating, or interacting with my community. I think that phones are addictive because they are built to be addictive by corporations, and that if we really want to maximize the good that the internet has brought we need to end the private ownership of it.

[@ville-c4u]

No one cares

[@the-goddess-of-libraries]

@ville-c4u then why are you taking the time to respond? Lol

[@franmarques95]

Managers on the social media firms must be laughing at this debate after designing them to maintain people hooked

[@Elspm]

Social media is a broad category, and positive/negative are broad descriptors. I'm with the it's complicated people - social media interplays with our society, and everything can move very fast so there's a rapid feedback loop. This can be negative in some ways (targeted ads that make money by inducing negative emotions), but it can also inform people of the state of the world very rapidly. Personally I'd love to put the genie back in the bottle, but it's not gonna happen.

[@eminieemiemi808]

I am a huge fan of yours, Alice. However, I must admit I feel as if we've read two different books. I understand you're talking about social media today but you omitted some pretty important part of Haidts' work: overusing devices with internet connection by children is bad because it takes up the time child could spend on unsupervised face-to-face interaction with other children (or learning while in school). Additionally, I've got an impression that a person unfamilar with the book would think that Haidt's perceives social media as some kind of sole culprit of raising anxiety in our generation. While he emphasizes that the way parents and schools treat and perceive children as uncapable of self-reliance is the core of the problem. Instead of teaching them how to adult and let them learn social skills they choose to (because of economical and societal factors of course) give them the phone that will entertaine them for hours. I just wanted to say that you might have unintentionally taken up some depth from Haidt's work

[@nono-fo5ls]

The reason why we are depressed and anxious is the lack of certainty and amount of infinite possibilities which look like "possibilities" but are actually just possibilities for the rich.

[@arianebarnes]

I think Haidt has been a charlatan since the 00's when he defined 5 key virtues, and completely left of the sixth DIGNITY, a virtue of "being an ally to everybody" (as defined by Aristotle) with the opposite vice being belligerence. He's written several articles proving his complete lack of understanding on this virtue, in fact this whole idea of an "anxious generation" feels a bit belligerent to me. So no, while I agree with the idea that young people are engaging too much in social media, it's not the cause of depression, it's actually more of a symptom. People go on social media to avoid depression, it's a "comfort" activity, and just saying no without providing other "comfort" activities is likely only going to increase depression.

[@TheBoringAddress]

I'm of two minds/Two things can be true at once: Social Media has allowed, at least in part, to amplify discourses and truths that were supressed by mainstream sources and it is an indispensable tool for marginalized people to find connections, vital connections. At the same time, I'm positive that children and teenagers should NOT, under any circumstances be allowed to access them. There need to be mandatory courses preparing kids for the Internet beforehand, a parallel to mandatory civics classes

[@c7261]

You have to be pragmatic. No using social media until skills are developed to navigate it's predatory nature (so 18+). However, teenagers should be allowed to use mobiles for small connected groups exclusively with friends (Telegram, etc). They can have self-realization on things like Tumblr, Blogs, etc. There's too much money involved with shaping people's habits into becoming reliant on the social media product. It's a tainted well.

[@scarykloky519]

I'm going to be honest, anecdotally social media destroyed my ability to concentrate, ate up all my free time and generally made me angry and depressed. Even if social media is an amplifier, why would we want to amplify already "bad" stuff in our society? I am on the no-smartphones or social media until 16 side, I think my life would have been better if I did. Considering we had no studies to prove Social media was safe when giving this product to children and teens I think we can temporarily ban them and check for improved results especially considering we are risking an increase in youth suicide, self-harm, and mental disorders. I'm not saying banning it for adults or banning all of the internet for children either, but people met impending doom and societal problems before social media was invented and seem to have handled it better.

[@subcitizen2012]

I remember being depressed af as a teenager before the internet.

[@intivism]

I thought it was common knowledge that the main purpose of social media is data collection? Any usefulness for or harm it does to the users is technically incidental - these sites don't exist for the good of humanity or anything.

[@valala2987]

Whether it has any effect on our mental health or not, I think trying to punish young people with restricted access to social media is the wrong way to go about it. It's a typical "solution" made by people who probably don't even know how to open their own emails. It shows their lack of understanding when it comes to anything that has to do with the internet. Imo, companies should be made liable for the content on their platforms. They should be treated as something similar to a publisher. The main problem is that companies have no financial incentive to regulate what people are writing on their website. They let hatred and misinformation run rampant because it has a positive effect on user engagement and thus their revenue. As everyone who survived the recent war zone that is the Christmas dinner table knows, social media is not a problem limited to people under 18.

[@dummie4guitars]

00:01 I am not yet sure. Time will tell.