Why Solar Panels Are Not Worth It

[@Engineerboy100]

This is good advice! I am a mechanical engineer and I've designed my own solar system and I paid cash, but this information Joe is giving in this video is very good for most people!

[@cooljimmywang]

I DIY my own Solar power system, 9000W on my roof. And only costed me US 8000 on materials the installation was so easy, me and my wife worked for that only 3 days. 13500 Khw last year. Very😊

[@nolongeractive5952]

I want to do this...

[@dennisdickinson8337]

Soooo you want to rip every one off good to know

[@T.k.b.a.h.a]

​@@dennisdickinson8337huh???

[@kevinmanan1304]

If my house was one story… yeah. I known someone that fallen off the roof. Didn’t fully harnessed the safety or whatever, roof accidents DO happen still in a coma today. BUT if my house was a single story I’d do it myself in a heartbeat. I didn’t know him as clumsy or careless and he still goofed, rather not risk it. At least with two stories there’s no shade factor with trees under 30’

[@Sharon22301]

The deciding factor for me came a couple years ago when Texas had that ice storm that essentially rendered their wind farms inoperable. I live out in rural America not directly effected by this. But my electric company sent out notices saying they needed to start rolling black outs so they can send the energy to Texas. For me it was all about energy independence. Breaking free of the energy monopolies and them deciding if/when I got power. Them even deciding how much power I got. I was done. My husband and I went totally off grid within the year. Its been challenging but 100% worth it in the end.

[@LTVoyager]

I considered that, but more than doubling my cost of electricity wasn’t worth the risk mitigation provided. It is much cheaper to buy a standby generator for the few times a year it is needed. Batteries are still way too expensive to make sense in most areas.

[@JamesG1126]

@@LTVoyager Agree. A small system would at least give you a few lights and internet access. 4 panels, 1 battery. A full replacement system isn't worth it.

[@LTVoyager]

@@JamesG1126 And for the price of a few panels, inverter and battery you can buy a whole house generator and run everything during power outages.

[@JamesG1126]

@@LTVoyager No you can't. You'll be running to get more diesel twice per day.

[@LTVoyager]

@@JamesG1126 I have NG. 😁

[@SamSam-bv3vn]

Wonderful pointers!! Great video

[@tom95521]

We had solar grid-tied NEM 2 installed last summer. This summer project is a multi zone mini-split heat pump and more insulation. The problem is PG&E will soon be increasing the monthly minimum charge to compensate for less energy consumed. The California PUC seems more interested in keeping PG&E happy and couldn't care less about their customers.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

They have to increase it because you're only putting in less than 20% Yeah mini splits are great if you barely need them what's the temperature gets to extremes than to become real inefficient and then you can't even use them because they wont work Check out in your manual and there should be a bell curve to show you operating efficiencies at different ambient temperatures

[@alals6794]

@@dennisdickinson8337 Whoa.... I didn't know that . Thanks.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

Put the solar is only putting in 15% The big evil companies got to make up for it somewhere Is ok California is going to make the first move Got to make up for that 85% micropower is not putting into the grid

[@LTVoyager]

This is a very nice video. It is nice to see honest information provided from a solar proponent (other than the comment about netting your bill to zero). Solar is a tool and like any other tool, it is good for some things and not for others.

[@cyberjohn44]

Good solid advice.

[@thesurvivalist.]

I use Poly-crystalline panels in my off-grid system, while Mono-crystalline panels can be knocked out by a single leaf. Also during the winter months, your output will be as low as 10% of your rated panel output.

[@MitchOfCanada]

I did vertical mount under an overhang and mid overcast days i make 50%, over produce on sunny days due to cold weather. Most panels have diodes that cutout each side of the panel. so mount panels in winter landscape.

[@RJeezy55]

Appreciate this video! The reality is that Solar is not for everyone and should not be bought without doing research is usually never mentioned in the solar industry 🙏

[@JamesG1126]

Solar is sold based on monthly payment scams. People are too stupid to understand what they're signing up for.

[@DYT-jx4jp]

There is a sixth reason (at least temporarily) that another commenter also mentioned: roof condition. Our roof will need to be redone in the next 5-10 years. The cost to uninstall/reinstall the panels wipes out the tax savings credit (roughly via some quotes I've gotten). So, currently the "normal payback" reason doesn't make sense to us. Once we get the roof done, then we plan to do solar/battery assuming it relativity makes sense. I'll add value for being able to run a few days without power for critical loads too. Our average electrical load is lower than the average US person, so the bill payback savings might be different than for many others. One "bonus" of waiting is the tech on the battery/solar/grid pieces probably will be better and/or more standardized across at least a few brands. (I hope for mtce reasons :-)

[@MyWTFName]

Another one hitting home owners, when trying to sell their house, the loan agreement for the solar system is not transferable to another party. If the new home owner stops or refuses to pay for the solar the original signatories are liable for the debt.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

That's one way of getting rid of the ignorant solar cuz you can only put in less than 20% who is paying for the greater than 80% of the missing power

[@LTVoyager]

Where does your bill net to zero? I am not aware of any electric utility in the US that has a $0 monthly charge (basic charge, availability, charge, etc.). The lowest my bill can be is $30/month as that is the availability charge of my supplier. This makes a huge difference in the financials as most solar companies don’t include this in their modeling. I still chose to install solar, but my actual payback is 11 years, not the 9 years the solar installer projected. Subtracting $360/year from the solar savings makes a significant difference in the financials.

[@BigBen621]

I'm on San Diego Gas & Electric, and my electric bill nets to zero. All monthly charges are covered by export credits. I'll eventually age out of NEM 2.0 and this will change; but for the past 8 years and next 7, I pay nothing to my electric utility, and my system will have paid for itself at least twice over before that occurs.

[@leoe3140]

But you should compare apples to apples - you would have paid basic connection charge of $30 or so regardless of whether you would install solar or not. So comparing payback should be without that $30/month charge. It’s what savings you get incrementally vs. What you would have had without solar.

[@LTVoyager]

@@leoe3140 No, that is comparing apples to oranges. The way you compare two alternatives is to use the total cost of each alternative. The total cost of grid service includes the basic monthly fee as well as both generation and distribution charges. The total cost of a grid-tied solar system is the basic monthly fee as well as the amortized capital cost of the solar system plus any insurance, maintenance and taxes it incurs. Total cost of option A compared to total cost of option B. That is the correct way to evaluate alternatives.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

Stand-alone I love it that's what I have on my houses & sailboat

[@LTVoyager]

@@BigBen621 In PA, our SRECs aren’t paid by the power company, so our electric bill will never net to zero as it always has the basic monthly charge. However, depending on the auction rate of SRECs, I may or may not get enough from them to offset my basic monthly charge so that my total electric cost nets to zero, but my electric utility bill will always be at least $30.

[@kentschrader3900]

It always seems that whenever a tax credit is involved with a product, sellers calculate the price they would charge to make a reasonable profit, then add the amount of the tax credit to the price so they can create the perception of a discount. The tax credit never makes it the "irresistible" deal it would be if not for the greedy pricing.

[@jimusa9330]

Good advice. Thx.

[@markstipulkoski1389]

In addition to shading, your roof orientation might require many more panels than say your next door neighbor, even though you have zero shading. Also, if you plan on selling your house before the breakeven period, solar panels are not always a good thing to some buyers. And if you might have to re-shingle your roof in the near future, it will cost you more. Although I plan on going solar/battery on the next house, I will leave that decision to the next owner of my current home.

[@BLUETTIOfficial]

Love your videos!

[@glenn4917]

Having solar installed in December 2022 , I haven’t had a kilowatt charge since. After seeing how much excess my solar was producing, I now have a EV and will never pay for gas or maintenance from a internal combustion vehicle…ever. I also paid for my solar install up front and had my Level 2 charger put in as well. Since that time my utility has raised electric rates 14.4 percent which I will never have to worry about again.

[@T.k.b.a.h.a]

What part of the country are you in? How much was the total install cost?

[@Skipbo000]

yeah but how much did you pay?

[@RobertBullock]

The problem in Texas is you pay the TDU of about 5 cents to deliver the power. You'll have to send 33% more on my old plan for exampe to just come close. I got Powerwalls. I exported about 1 days worth extra ALL last year, net. So I'm right sized. Remember generator maintenance and the Generacs run every now and then just to circulate oil etc. I don't have to worry about price increases ever, and the stablization of my power should also help electronic/fridge/etc. possible damage. There's a small nonzero chance that natural gas prices increase, etc etc. And finally, yes, I can do cash and take the full tax credit for batteries and panels. Lastly, Tesla power is a few dollars cheaper and pays me $30 a month on top just for owning them. It's a small ROI but not horrible.

[@waltertoki1]

This was a very good video about why solar panel may not be worth the expense, especially when utilities (PGE in California) do not fully pay back the excess electricity that customers send back to the grid. However, the most important point to consider is the high and increasing cost of electricity charged by the utilities. In California, PGE charges me ~$0.50/kwh, which is the now same as Tesla supercharger rates. I expect PGE will continue to increase their prices even further so having your own solar panels to cover yearly electricity usage and perhaps batteries will be cost effective and the return on investment will only improve.

[@krslavin]

If you have some land, start small, learn what needs to be done, and install it yourself. Allow for some expansion, and as money permits, buy more panels and/or batteries. For DIY, it may be better to install the panels on ground mounts, which you can build yourself at low cost. They are easier to clean and maintain, and you may be able to find that perfect sunny spot. Only hire an electrician for the alternating current stuff.

[@pip5461]

If you buy solar to make money it's not a viable investment... solar + battery storage is advantageous if you regularly have power outages or live off-grid.

[@philipdamask2279]

Excellent coverage and advice!

[@markvalery8632]

This is not a factual statement. It depends on everything mentioned in this video and more. My 2014 solar installation saves me over $2k per year in electrical service and over $2k in SRECs per year. In the future the SFREC value will come down and the electrical savings will go up. Straight payback was 4.5 years, payback period comparing investing with 10% returns was 6 years, payback comparing investing with 10% returns and if there were no federal or state rebates was 11.5 years. Every situation is different and you need to do the math.

[@kevinm234]

Here is what you are missing. My system has enough battery storage for one day of normal electric usage. My solar is designed to supply enough to charge the batteries with just 5 hours of sunshine. In the summer I typically have plenty of power. In the winter my electric usage is less but the days are shorter. My system is set to automatically switch to grid power when my batteries fall to 20%. The bottom line is that my solar/battery system will pay for itself in roughly 8 years. In the meantime if the power does go off for any extended period I can charge my batteries for the day with one of my trifuel generators on natural gas in just 4 hours and live normally off grid.

[@pip5461]

@@kevinm234 I'm not against solar systems, I'd love to have one. However, the high cost of the systems makes them prohibitive for the masses.

[@jamesdean2185]

Interesting video, but very local. There are all sorts of rules and games in various parts of the world that can make solar options viable, or unviable, depending on local circumstances. My circumstances are so favourable that I got an 8KW system brand new for $5000 professionally installed (after $6300 government contribution). At this price, after 2.5 years, I am halfway to recouping my investment based on my daytime self consumption alone. (I am in Australia where solar installations are MUCH cheaper than USA)

[@Electronzap]

Im surprised California wouldnt pay full price for what you feed the grid, I thought they were the most determined State to get solar panels on people's roof.

[@LTVoyager]

It is very simple. The politicians and regulators in CA are not very bright and didn’t listen to the utilities two decades ago. The problem with solar is that it products most of its power during the part of the day when it is less needed than early and late in the day when consumption is highest. It wasn’t until CA had to start PAYING its neighboring states to take its excess power during midday when solar was pumping out electricity and supply exceeded demand. The power has to be sent somewhere to maintain grid stability. Why would utilities buy power from solar producers during midday when they don’t need the power?

[@JamesG1126]

Why would California electricity providers pay retail price for electricity? Makes no sense.

[@TheUweRoss]

California has so much solar now that it they don't know what to do with it all and often have to curtail production during mid-day hours. That means excess power from your residential array has no value to them.

[@SwingAndSway245WBC]

A battery is NOT a solution for places with snow or prolonged cloud cover unless you have a huge battery. For example, a 10kW battery will bearly suffice for one day of consumption. So, if you have a week of snow, you will need a 70 to 150 kWh battery.

[@MitchOfCanada]

DIY offgrid, grid support only is 1/4 the cost of grid tie...

[@mauricioweber8879]

True that California’s move to lower 1/4 buy back is a bold slap on the face. They are forcing the battery trend in a bad way... batteries will evolve anyway because of the car industry... I saw no need for this aggressive move.

[@samuelwilliams7331]

The way batteries are improving and getting cheaper I feel California is shooting themselves in the foot.

[@jackehli621]

DIY is still worth it especially with price of batteries coming down so rapidly. One does not have to buy those expensive batteries you highlight in your other videos. Just supplementing with off grid helps a lot. Use it mainly for heating and cooling. . If you actually care about the environment you would cover that fact. Every little bit helps.

[@dc1544]

Do as much as you can when installing solar and batteries. Who cares of your power company buys anything from you as far as extra solar power. I spent $15,000 on my system and did it all myself. 11,200 watts solar, (PV) 2 all in one 5k inverters and 64 280ah LFP cells to make 4 banks at 14.3kw each (13kw usable each). I built a ground array and installed 40 used panels. 38 are good and I will replace those 2 and add 8 more. Research how to do it. If you can not do it safely then hire it out when you buy a kit from signature solar and they can find a you installers. I would have paid $45,000 if I had it installed for me and bought new panels. I only pay for electricity 2 months a year and a $10 a month fee on months I use nothing. I save $225 a month average. I am in year 2 so 5 more years till payoff. I am looking for new panels on sale to expand my system and another 2 battery banks so I have 78kw of usable storage which will save me even more in winter and if need be I can gut ties with grid with a small generator purchase.

[@robleblanc8504]

If you are in California, Travis credit union offers interest rates at 6-7 percent. It has a minimum credit score of 720, but I was able to save my friend $40,000 dollars by doing it.

[@SolarSurge]

That’s a great financing option. For well, qualified buyers, looks like you can avoid the dealer fees altogether.

[@alzamboti8639]

Question I have tenants who put electric in their name but don't have a net metering agreement as that's w me the homeowner. I do have 2 PW's so it helps but still massive amounts of Kw going back to grid with no advantage to tenant or owner just free to Duke FL....any suggestions?

[@aaronsinspirationdaily4896]

Checkout the Australian rooftop solar example. That’s how’s you do Solar. Biggest problem in the USA is all the red-tape and soft costs. Next is the ridiculous fragmented and aging grid. Good news is, USA is waking up and accelerating at a very fast pace from behind. You guys have a very strong history of doing this and changing the world. We’re all hoping you do.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

So judging on your caliber you should probably just do the car battery charger one that would be the easiest one Again as the battery gets full the amps go down the watt stay the same then on the battery side measure the amps and the volts multiply the two and that'll give you the actual watts that are going in That's the same thing as the grid average line voltage is 240 and thanks to Enron maximum line voltage is 274 And as with the grid and the battery when it gets full you can no longer put any more in so it's just sitting there wasting away in the solar panels make heat when they're making electricity that'd be another good video to demonstrate that

[@dennisdickinson8337]

So it would be a good title what was that other video that you did a while back the five reasons how about six reasons the death of solar Prove me wrong You could only put in less than 20% ohm's law 102

[@Skipbo000]

How are you protecting your company, Solar Surge, from lawsuits? Do we have to sign an agreement that you are not responsible for anything that goes wrong as a result of the actions of the people, company and information you provided?

[@mikeswanson6145]

For the solar industry to be viable without subsidy,tax credit or buyback.

[@bubbagump6961]

Don't forget this reason not to purchase solar. If your not planning to stay in your current house for at least 5 or more years, you may not have time to recoup your investment. And don't count on the resale price of your house to cover the cost of the investment.

[@koffeegy]

Can you help with quote in Louisiana?

[@Skipbo000]

he doesn't even answer comments asking for business?

[@InventPeace1]

Good Video. U left out the very high cost & limited lifetime of batteries. InvenrPeaceNotWar

[@festeradams3972]

Two false assumptions... that the power companies WANT you to grid connect, they don't. The second is that the "grid" is always there, sometimes for various reasons it isn't! It is aging infrastructure, and also subject to attack, either physical or online. The grid can go down for hours, days, weeks or months depending on the damage. Having at least a minimal "critical load" solar and battery backup at least puts you in better shape than most in that circumstance.

[@fireofenergy]

I don't understand why the utility would or should have to buy at "fool" credit. Maybe a jester's worth, though (definitely). Even wholesale might be "too expensive" because too much supply and not enough demand at the time. I think solar is cool but not when everyone forces the utility to loose a little, giving them the excuse to be assholes, to charge everyone more, and even adding fees just to _have_ solar panels...

[@Tiersmoke92555]

DIY, there are loopholes and ways around spending tens of thousands to save a few hundred.

[@wtfman1217]

Just not worth it anymore

[@scottmcshannon6821]

its silly for the power company to pay retail for consumer excess power. why would they pay the consumer retail when they can get it wholesale elsewhere? why should they lose money? of course wholesale includes spot prices when the price is full the roof.

[@pauld315]

The 30% tax credit currently being used allows you to carry over any amount not used

[@titphalithyem1911]

But Edison is charging more every year. People are being screwed. No consistency and lots of rip offs

[@titphalithyem1911]

Tell me which one to get 😅 if not at all

[@williamdorsett4680]

Under the IRA, there is the provision for rebates in place of tax credits for low income individuals and non-profit institutions.

[@gnagyusa]

BS. I've had solar panels + batteries for 7 years. I'm not at the grid's mercy and I have free energy. Grid solar buyback is a scam anyway. You get back pennies on the dollar. You're way better off storing the extra energy during the day in your own batteries and then using them at night. Not to mention that grid-tied solar doesn't work when there's a power outage. You have solar panels producing energy you can't use.

[@scottmcshannon6821]

if solar cant make it without a tax refund it should not be used at all, its just a waste of time and money. like ethanol and hydrogen.

[@markvalery8632]

And oil and gas and nuclear

[@tdobson888]

I'm going to call out a company that is the worst at the high pressure sales and If they show up in your neighborhood or home kick them out as fast as possible. Everlight solar they are overpriced and high pressure sales to the Max. I wish I took a picture of the guy face when I told him I was getting 3 other quotes he said why would I do that 🤣🤣 I said email me his proposal or leave me a copy so I can compare, never heard from him again nothing what a joke

[@dmccullough1401]

You can spread out your tax credit over three years.

[@StevenClements]

click bate

[@dennisdickinson8337]

The problem with solar is once the panels are hooked up to the grid or battery you can only get and use less than 20% of the panels advertised maximum rated output It's called ohm's law

[@Eyrrll]

That’s not Ohm’s Law. And if you are “only” getting less than 20%, there is a problem. There will always be some loss, but it should not always be more than 80%.

[@dennisdickinson8337]

@@Eyrrll do you have a volt amp meter

[@dennisdickinson8337]

and it is ohm's law

[@dennisdickinson8337]

Anyway homeslice teach us electricity is like water you must overcome the incoming pressures Maximum line voltage - PV voltage is what is actually going in to the grid or battery

[@Eyrrll]

@@dennisdickinson8337 If you are somehow only getting less than 20% output, I understand why you would think it’s Ohm’s Law… but it’s not. Ohm’s Law is not the reason behind such a crazy amount of power loss. It’s far more likely to be a comically bad installation process

[@omarvirgen2641]

So stay with your local energy and keep paying there increments lmao shut upo

[@Phillylightningridesdotcom]

I'm NJ and have net Metering I had tesla design a PW3 (1)for my home. I have 20Kw solar system and I do have an EV so I was wondering what would be the best practice to use the PW3 ,since I have 1 to 1 net Metering . I'm thinking of using PW3 maybe 30%? What would you do?