How To Avoid Solar Panel Scams | Ask This Old House

[@mpoulin]

My brother is a real estate agent and has seen many sales fall through because of solar leases. New buyers often don't want to take the leases over and just move on.

[@volvo09]

I also wouldn't. It's amazing how home loans can be twisted up into such a mess, loans on top of loans.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Not just leases, but even owner-purchased when there's a loan leftover as they have a lien on the home so it must be paid off or transferred to the new purchaser. The original purchaser pocketed all the tax credits while you get nothing.

[@mpoulin]

@@oldtwinsna8347 Good point. I didn't think of that.

[@Off-Grid]

Yep, I'm in real estates and it happens a lot.

[@davidjohnson1284]

What I would say, is your brother needs to become an expert in how to navigate these transactions as they will be more plentiful in the next 5 to 10 years. So many more people are getting solar installed on their roof and your brother wants to be well positions to navigate this experly so that the bulk of your business will come to him based on his expertise in navigating the situation instead of him, putting his head in the sand when it relates to opportunity lost for his sales quiver.

[@rayRay-pw6gz]

Many UNKNOWNS: 1) not all homeowners insurance will cover homes with solar panels . 2) You need to insure the system in case of storm damage. 3) your roof needs to be fairly new. 4) states have different rules governing the system. 5) the amount of payment for energy you generated is much less than what the provider charges . 6) all solar panels and related equipment are not equal.

[@Kerrsartisticgifts]

I answered an ad that said this solar company would rent my roof to install solar. When they came they said they didn't want to rent my roof but they could put $60,000 worth of panels in my yard and arrange financing. According to them after 20 yrs the panels would have paid for themselves and I could buy them for $1 So, for 20 years I'd have their panels on my property, with a lien on my property for the $60,000 financing loan and everyone makes money except me, the guy with the roof.

[@DinnerTimeFan]

Solar panels have a useful life of 20 years, and that's assuming they've been very well cared for. You must have had gullible written across your forehead.

[@ellybean5868]

​@@DinnerTimeFanit appears that he didn't have them installed, so you must have "I have no reading comprehension skills" on your forehead....

[@DinnerTimeFan]

@@ellybean5868 You're the one that has "I have no reading comprehension skills" written across your forehead. He never would've been approached if he wasn't the biggest shabbos goy in the universe.

[@JustSomeGuy009]

​@@DinnerTimeFanclearly he's not gullible. He was looking for a solar company. They pitched him a bunch of BS hoping he wouldn't realize or understand because so many in society don't understand finance. He clearly did understand as clearly explained in his post.

[@gizmobowen]

So many people are getting scammed by solar installers right now, it's amazing. This information needs to be spread to every person thinking about solar. I've had to talk so many friends and family out of horrible solar deals because there was no way it was ever going to be financially viable. I got solar when my state had incentives, but the budget was allocated in the first year and there haven't been state incentives yet. Without the incentives, the cost of the system will take way too long, given the relatively low cost of energy, where I live. I know the cost continues to decrease, but without state and federal incentives, the ROI is just not reasonable for many. I wish more people were able to understand the economics before making the leap and this video does a good job of explaining that. Thanks Ross.

[@dtemp132]

A coworker proudly posted in our work chat how he just signed a contract for a solar system. Once I realized they were overcharging him by $30k, I spoke to him privately, and got him to pay a $3k fee to break the contract. Absolute scum national company he was dealing with!

[@flat-earther]

gizmo, dtemp I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@cgamiga]

Biggest impact on solar payback is net metering. Some utilities are good and credit you back retail for generated power... others, charge fees and give you mere cents, or NO net metering at all! That makes it a LOT harder payback... batteries can help, but those are usually nearly as or more expensive than solar is, and more complicated, and much shorter (10yrs?) lifetime vs 20-30yrs for panels. 30% fed credits are a big help also, but even that without some net metering..

[@LouienDottie]

We need more electricians that are qualified for and willing to install homeowners systems. It’s so much cheaper buying the equipment yourself nowadays and have a qualified and licensed electrician install it, it’s almost plug and play nowadays.

[@JonathanJunior-t5w]

Can we talk about that?

[@ree9573]

Not sure it’s really that easy. There’s permits and you can’t just do as you please with the meters. What resources can you provide to back what you said here?

[@thecappy]

It really is a shame that it feels like dealing with a used car salesman when talking to these people.

[@johndoe6032]

Shop around and find a good company. I got a few clear salesmen but one buy I talked to was very clearly an engineer by trade and not a salesman. He was the only one who honestly told me that he would only recommend solar for me if I really wanted to go green and said he wouldn’t bother if he had my home. And it definitely wasn’t a play because o knew that going in.

[@andreaberryman5354]

That is what real estate has become-total Shark Tank.

[@manictiger]

I'm sick of it. I'm not talking to any of them anymore, unless I solicit them first. I've thought about all the salespeople I've talked to, all the times they've lied, all the times I cancelled because I learned about something they didn't talk about, etc. Entire waste of time. All of their jobs are the result of a post-scarcity industrial era. We don't need useful people anymore, so we create these kinds of jobs to keep them busy.

[@agomezjunco]

Waaay worse than used car salesman

[@pleskbruce]

Yes and whenever that happens you know that somebody's earning big commissions.

[@Krazie-Ivan]

As this program is for the DIY crowd, it'd be great to have a few episodes dedicated to the best value home efficiency prep work & self-install of a modern PV+battery system. There's whole youtube channels dedicated to these, but TOH has production means & reach to make great contributions in a time where it's only becoming more valuable & important to manage energy wisely.

[@yourgooglemeister6745]

I found a DIY system on Amazon let's just say it's a whole lot more work than it's actually worth in Saving. I gained some knowledge on how so it works and that's about the extent of the value

[@Mike-01234]

@@yourgooglemeister6745Check out EG4 and Santan solar. I can build 60KW solar panel with 10KW of battery storage for $22k. Depending where you live will estimate how much power you can generate a day. I live in Phoenix, so I get 5.5 hours a day which means about 165KWH a day. Lot of people are not interested in DIY solar or learning how electricity works doing any work on their home I understand who wants to spend all their free time on a project like that. Amazon is not the place to buy anything for a whole house solar system find a dealer. Santan for panels, Signature Solar for EG 4 inverters and Lifepo4 server rack batteries.

[@seymorefact4333]

⛔ THE SCAM IS when the govt gives tax incentives......THE COST GOES UP! Contractors will CHARGE MORE because of the tax credits. Taxpayers are paying for it. IF no govt involved....THE MARKET will work and prices will DROP 50%!

[@Off-Grid]

We installed our own system. Wasn't hard.

[@gabaradama144k9]

@@yourgooglemeister6745diy is the way to go believe me

[@georgew8586]

I think TOH could do a whole hour long show on solar, you touched on a couple good topics, like the 20 year lease program, which I have read articles from reputable solar installers, they typically recommend to stay away from. Also the inverter does each panel have a micro inverter or a single inverter for the whole system and what happens if the inverter fails. Then there is the whole discussion about batteries and what types are available, such as Teslas power wall or Generics version etc. We plan in 2 years to build our retirement home, smaller, with solar so as to give us options other than for the grid and potential downtimes.

[@berndog4u1]

George, all good questions. I lived in Hawaii and installed solar in 2014. I should have done it 10 years earlier. I figure it paid for itself in 3.5-4 yrs (helped by the highest electric rates in the country). My panel system (14kW per day on a small 2 bed/2 bath house) had a single inverter but I think some larger systems have multiple inverters. Recently in Colorado and need to re-educate myself when it comes to the battery bank. They started peak demand usage (4 to 8pm) billing here and I think a battery system may help level out the bill even more, plus inevitably will have an electric vehicle and overnight charging from a battery wall would be nice to have.

[@siberwolf33]

I can tell you that the current microinverters are a big step forward technologically. They are far more reliable than the bulky old inverters. Going with an established company and low APR or upfront cash will provide excellent return on investment.

[@waynekaminski5438]

@@berndog4u1 Battery technology is turning over too rapidly to invest in a battery pack right now. Don't forget that a battery pack poses more of a fire hazard, so home insurance rates will go up. I have twelve 400 kW solar panels with microinverters connecting the panels in a network to a central inverter connected to the grid. Your 14 kW system is way oversized for a 2 bed/2 bath house. My 4.8 kW system covers my 1700 sq.ft. 4 bedroom/2.5 bath house. I have not paid an electric bill in the 12+ months since going live (except for the $10-11/month charge from the utility company for grid maintenance and $65/month on the 100% financed solar loan @1.5% APR). On my recent 12 month True-up, I made $200 from exporting electricity which has paid for four months of natural gas invoices (March - June). My house can experience 90+ deg. F daytime temperatures in the summer months from June-October, and I can still run my A/C at 70 deg. F indoors and not pay a dime of electrical usage.

[@Off-Grid]

All the info is out there. I didn't know anything and installed my own off grid system. Wasn't that hard.

[@cheeseisgreat24]

Solar Leases are pretty much almost never worth it, if you own your home and have a decent roof and location, it is *always* a better idea to just buy it upfront with cash or a loan. With an average payback period of 5-8 years and an increase on your property’s value to boot, it’s just a smarter move. Also worthy to note is installing a whole-home battery to be able to take advantage of the fact that you’ll be generating the most energy when your house doesn’t usually need it as much, and if your power provider doesn’t do Net Metering that’s another way to avoid losses to that inefficiency.

[@Liberalcali]

If you stop paying the loan they can put a lien on your house and take it

[@cheeseisgreat24]

@@Liberalcali And?

[@cheeseisgreat24]

@@Liberalcali That’s true of **literally** every big home improvement project where you need to take a loan out for it. Difference is, with a short payback period, you can likely easily plan ahead for it as 5 years is a pretty stable timeframe to know what you’re doing and what economic conditions will be like for you. If you took a loan out to reno your kitchen, it isn’t gonna yield any economic return for you until maybe when you sell your house, but even that isn’t assured to generate you more revenue than you put into it, but solar likely will.

[@colinleslie2458]

We have recently installed solar and went with what you basically called your second option which is financing solar through a loan. However, there is a variant in this scenario that you didn't mention. When getting quotes from solar companies many companies will work with finance companies that offer 20 to 25-year loans at sometimes even less than 1% interest rates. They are often able to advertise low monthly payments. This is true, but the way that they do this is by tacking on upfront fees, rather than interest, to the total cost of the installation. They don't call it fees. In fact all the quotes we got didn't really call it anything other than "the financed cost of the system." We had one company that flat out refused to tell us the actual cash value of the system they were quoting us. This means that the interest that you will pay on the life of a 20 to 25-year loan is small, possibly only a couple thousand dollars, relative to the principal. By doing this, they are able to ensure that even if you sell the house long before the lifetime of the loan, they will have essentially made the same amount of money on the loan by adding these fees into the principal up front. Many people when they sell a house with solar installed, but with a separate solar loan, simply pay off the loan with the sale of the house, as the value of the solar is rolled into the house sale. We ended up going with a regular installment loan at moderate interest rates. This has ensured that the principal for our solar is equivalent to the actual cash value of the solar installation. If we decide to sell our house before the end of the loan, all we have to pay off is, the remaining principle on the loan. I suspect low in companies have taken this approach of rolling these up front fees into the principal because they know that many people will end up selling their house before the loan term is up for a 20 or 25 years solar loan. We also ended up going with a local credit union that had special rates specifically for home energy improvement. Just something to know if you are getting quotes or offers that include extremely low interest rates. You might want to at least ask about the cash price of the solar installation to be able to more easily compare apples to apples cost of the system.

[@flat-earther]

Colin I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@johndoe6032]

That’s doesn’t make sense. They have to tell you the true cost of the system so you can calculate your tax credit because you can’t get a credit for financing fees.

[@colinleslie2458]

@@johndoe6032 I fully agree that in the spirit of the tax credit that is how it should work. And while I called them fees, that is really just the closest description I can figure out. One of the companies we got quotes from, which is a very reputable company in my area but not the one that we ended up going with, gave us two quotes. A "financed" cost of the system through their own financer for $50,000 or a cash price for $34,000. The $50,000 estimate included a tax credit of just over $13,000 while the $34,000 cash price estimate had a tax credit of just over $9,000. The same approach was taken by another reputable solar installer that we got quotes from, as well as two other companies in the area that one of my neighbors got quotes from. I would like to know what exactly allows them to do this, as I agree that on the surface it doesn't seem like it ought to be legal or in keeping with the spirit of the tax incentive. Also, those tax credit amounts were for quotes at 26%, before the tax credit was re-upped in the bill this year to 30%.

[@sirmontego2]

@@colinleslie2458 And if you show the salesman IRS Notice 2013-70, Q-14/A-14 www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-13-70.pdf#page=6 which proves that the customer cannot take the tax credit on the loan origination fees, the salesmen will just say "I'm not an accountant." Meanwhile, there are probably thousands of people committing tax fraud because of wrong information from underhanded solar sales people.

[@68Tboy]

@ Colin Leslie All loans work that way including mortgages. That’s why you should never buy points when buying a home. Buying points is just prepaid interest. You either pay the lender interest now or later. Also, any contract will have the actual amount. I’ve sold mortgages and solar and when I client wants a copy of the price you have already lost the deal, because they are going to shop you. That’s pretty much sales 101. Experienced salesman know as soon you ask the client is just wasting time.

[@TJO1733]

The lenghts banks go to screw the single person is amazing.

[@volvo09]

Yeah, the cooperation between lenders is crazy. So much of this "green" agenda is to get more money moving. I get that there is energy reductions, but it's not right when a young family gets bankrupted. I love the wilderness as much as everyone else (I live in the woods) but sneaking people into home improvement loans and vehicle loans is not the solution. I simply wish more education was placed on staying out of debt. I moved to stay out of debt, my last town would have bankrupted me.

[@flat-earther]

TJO I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@TJO1733]

@@flat-earther not that big on poor comedy, sorry

[@Krazie-Ivan]

@@flat-earther ...we should just aim the flat panel of earth at the sun to get max efficiency out of our PV arrays 24/7. Bet if we get everyone to meet up in the lower-right corner, it'll be enough weight... Spread the word!

[@flat-earther]

@@Krazie-Ivan I believe you don't even know what flat earth is. You have a distorted view of flat earth. I suggest watching the series first.

[@randyhaun9127]

The issue I have with the Federal solar tax credit is how the solar companies are taking advantage of it. They use it as a sales pitch indicating that you can receive a credit up to 30% of the installation cost (depending on your specific tax situation), but they artificially inflate the installation cost so that they wind up getting this money. So, you aren't really getting 30% of your money back you are just transferring that 30% tax credit to the solar company. The problem is that all the solar companies are doing the same thing, so there's no way around it.

[@solarmantan1859]

Not necessarily. Every company has different "redlines" (the overhead cost of doing an installation). Everything on top of the redline is profit which allows the company to grow and expand and be there for support down the road (Just as any other company). If you lease the system then yes, the solar company takes the tax credit and return gives you a low-fixed monthly payment. There are more benefits to own the system, every situation varies. When you buy the system, you claim that you went solar during tax time, talk to CPA to see eligibility.

[@This1That0]

This is why i haven’t done the install. They basically feed you a fake loan for 15-18 months then ask for the tax credit money OR they jack up the price per month. I don’t care what profits they want - the tax credit is to help reduce the cost not to gouge homeowners into forking 17K in possible tax credits to some company that moves on and does it over and over again.

[@solarmantan1859]

@@This1That0 You have two options after month 18. Let's say you receive the full 30% the first year on your taxes. You can take that 30% and go on a dream vacation and pay a higher loan amount or you can imply it back into the loan as which it is initially designed for and lock in the low loan amount.

[@samanthas.7791]

And let's not forget the roofers

[@jazzfan7491]

That's how capitalism works. The way around it is to use capitalism -- get a bunch of quotes. There will be some installers willing to do the work at a cost which earns them the profit they need but give you a lower cost. That's how it's supposed to work, anyway. Take note, this system doesn't work if you simply accept the first offer. It's up to you to drive competition.

[@Off-Grid]

Just buy and install yourself. I did, works great.

[@joemomma707]

How!!!!

[@Off-Grid]

@@joemomma707 I put our install videos on our channel. There is a playlist for the solar we did for our off-grid home.

[@boblatkey7160]

I did that, bought everything for around $11,000 and my payback period After the 30% tax credit is about four years.

[@Off-Grid]

@@boblatkey7160 Installed our system during COVID before inflation hit and our summer temperatures got even hotter. I haven't tried to calculate our break even but we may have already realized it.

[@kevinjackson4464]

@@boblatkey7160 Fantastic! That is doing solar the right way!

[@Hntr_z]

Tons of great info here for a first time looker that doesn’t want to be bombarded by salesmen! Thank you!

[@JohnsTrainVideos]

My house came with a PPA through Vivint and it was a total scam. With Vivint PPA I was paying MORE for electricity than just getting it off the grid. They've been sued by many states because their contracts are so bad. I wish my real estate lawyer had warned me when I was signing papers :/

[@PicardManeuver]

Literally got a scam ad for solar panels on this video. Unbelievable.

[@flat-earther]

Picard I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@buglover-qb1dq]

I've got a feeling "somebody's" watching me... M.J.

[@ellybean5868]

​@@flat-eartherwow, someone trying to get someone to go to his scam, when he is talking about another person trying to scam him...

[@flat-earther]

@@ellybean5868 I didn't make that video and it's not a scam, I just want to wake people up because we were all lied to when we were taught that the earth is a ball flying in a vacuum

[@R50_J0]

The ad before this video was for nothing-down solar roof installs.😮

[@dankellen7580]

We live in the Charlotte, NC, area. In 2022 we installed a solar system sized to fully replace our energy use, as well as a little extra for the anticipated electric vehicle use. We selected an installer recommended by our utility - Renu Energy recommended by Duke Energy. They were be far the most professional solar company I’ve dealt with on our journey, and continue to be my go-to company as we install EV chargers, and contemplate home batteries etc. Highly recommend checking with your current utility to see if they have solar supplier/installer recommendations!

[@MackenzieHorn]

Please, more follow up on this. My concern after recent research is installers may want to use less expensive panels from a less reputable brand. The warranty doesn't matter when the company is gone.

[@nominalvelocity]

Even the "reputable" companies are subject to being bought/sold/closed and many are in China where all they have to do is hang another shingle on the factory and keep on manufacturing. It's a field where some of the oldest companies are about 20-25 years at the most. It's hard to make a value judgment on warranty based on just that, almost to the point where it's better to assume you'll not have a warranty at all.

[@gizmobowen]

@@nominalvelocity That's one thing I wrestled with when I got my system. Sure the panels and inverters have 25 year warranties, but that doesn't mean much if the companies that make them go away. I think my inverter company may stay around, but pretty sure my panel company is already AWOL. I saw that they got combined with another company but when I tried to contact them, they never returned my message. I didn't need work at the time, but I'm guessing they won't be around to honor the warranty if I need it. Despite it's increasing popularity, solar can still be a buyer beware proposition.

[@dtemp132]

In my opinion, the best company to buy panels from right now is REC, and I also would hold Q-cells in decently-high regard. For microinverters, Enphase.

[@johndoe6032]

I spoke with a guy I know who is also a GE Aviation engineer who is really into solar, so I trust his opinion. He said the way modern panels are made and work they are super reliable, and if they’re going to have any issue it’ll happen very early in the panel’s life, like a year or two. When you think about it, they don’t have any moving parts or other things to go bad. They just convert solar energy. The inverters are the weak point, but even they are highly reliable in the way they work, and people need to get micro inverters for each panel so if one does go down the rest of your array works and the replacement will be a lot cheaper.

[@belavet]

Go with someone that uses panels from a reputable company. Our panels are Panasonic. They weren't the lowest priced, but Panasonic has been around longer than almost anyone currently alive. You should be able to ask for panels from your installer. If they insist on some no name brand you can't even trace the source from, it's possibly a red flag. Having said that, the warranty should be something your installer honors as well. If the panels they installed can't be sourced when they fail, there should be a line in the contract where they'll replace them with the next most comparable thing. So long as your installed doesn't go belly up, they SHOULD be honoring the warranty for you.

[@ByrdNick]

I have been waiting years for a video like this. Thank you! (Also, the add that ran after this video was for one of the solar lease schemes. Good chance to apply what I learned!)

[@moniqueortiz6164]

Check out the KZbin channel Undecided. He has some great detail videos about going solar

[@notoryous33]

FYI, there are two loan options. Solar loans are unsecured loans and generally have a higher loan origination fee (cash value + ~20% fee). The second is a home equity loan which is secured. You pay cash value but then interest rate on the loan. I suggest HELOC bc the secured interested is tax deductible bc you are home improving

[@Off-Grid]

Just buy a system and do it yourself and get all the tax breaks. We did our own off-grid system and it wasn't hard.

[@notoryous33]

​@@Off-GridI did look into doing it myself. But I did not have the time nor the resources to do it. Installing 55 panels on a 30 ft roof and making sure all the installation on a potential tinderbox was done right to code and permitting was done correctly.... Yeah there's a reason some folks can't do it themselves

[@Off-Grid]

@@notoryous33 it's not for everyone, I understand that, buty point is that it also isn't difficult. Most of the systems these days are plug and play all in one boxes that mount on a wall and you simple put line A in slot B and turn it on. Solar installers and others make it seem like an impossible thing that only they can do and that isn't accurate.

[@MichaelPace2.0]

Great info! Glad to see you calling out bad actors in the industry

[@ricoma6037]

Also check with your HOA for any restrictions.

[@joecummings1260]

If solar made money, they would pay you rent to allow them to put it on your roof

[@keninja86]

Love the way he explained this! Every single bit!

[@jasonbrindamour903]

This is a great "fast" explanation of what has been going on in the money grab of solar power. Solar power can be great but does involve investment and proper system/installation. Shading on one panel can affect an entire system depending on how it's designed. But I agree with the overall...if you can afford to finance on your own and do your due diligence you can offset your energy costs. Today, it seems the "contractors" that are advertised in our faces are there to just take your money....and a LOT of it!

[@gizmobowen]

Regarding the shading issue, make sure you get microinverters that convert the DC to AC for each panel to prevent this. They say that string inverters with DC optimizers also will work, but I'd rather have the individual inverters for maximum efficiency.

[@bigdogsolarenergy]

We couldn't agree more with what was mentioned in this video! This is a must-watch for anyone considering solar!

[@dennisjohnson3276]

Good info about solar. As I am from North Carolina I would like to say that there was a company local in state installing solar and they just went out of business because supposedly they had an issue with a part that was supplied by another vender and neither company wanted to warranty the problem with the solar panels. Also the company lied about how much the homeowners would save in electrical cost.

[@restoringbonaire]

Good to see Richard's son following his dad's footsteps in a more techy way. 😊

[@garybest706]

For the price you pay for solar panels you can pay for a lot of electric bills. Solar panels on residential homes is just a scam regardless what option is chosen to pay for them. Most people have to finance them and pay more each month for the panels than what they are saving on their electric bill.

[@john36855]

I had solar panels installed under a loan option in IL. The installer “reduced the price” for the panels because they would claim the renewable credits. So READ the fine print!!! I found out too late that they were claiming those credits even though I was purchasing the panels. Also cash should have a lower price as financing has costs on all sides and typically done with a different financing company. Also not mentioned, make sure installers follow local code and get the inspections! If they don’t, the city could force you to pull the panels off. In my case the the installer was a larger company that does care about their reputation. So they did all the leg work on getting the permit and ensuring their work would pass the inspection. 3 years into having the panels and only had a small issue with a cell chip that communicates the power generation with the installer. So far they have been going good.

[@solarmantan1859]

When acquiring quotes please ask for the cash price. The financed option will have a low apr that is submerged by a 20-30% "dealer fee". If you plan on paying off the loan early under 10 years, I recommend financing the cash price with a higher APR, if available. If you have enough equity built into the home, a HELOC is a great option.

[@charlesorsay2389]

We went with a solar coop and found a company with great ratings and good history. Highly recommend.

[@johndoe6032]

A lot of utilities allow you to by your energy from third party energy suppliers including suppliers who use renewable energy sources. If your home isn’t a good fit for a solar panel system or you can’t afford to buy or lease panels, it’s the next best option. The energy will cost a little more but it’s also supporting renewable energy production and growth.

[@acor84]

Choose green home systems. I received many quotes before deciding on them. My system is installed now and I couldn't be happier. By far best company.

[@momzwrite]

.. you sound like a positive-review bot

[@acor84]

@momzwrite nope. Just a homeowner who couldn't be happier with the decision to go solar. You can keep your high electricity bill while I just sit here with no electricity bill lol

[@tesstkohls7448]

Wow! I think I will purchase solar panel contracts for all of my time-share properties, which I bought with money gifted to me by a very nice Nigerian Prince I met online.

[@Cyber_Homestead]

I lived in an area where the only solar installers in town were scamming people. I was quoted about $15k for the equipment and $15k for install. After looking into the amount of work for an install, this seemed like a big ripoff. Both companies I got quotes from said they could do battery systems, but dragged their feet on giving me a real quote. The primary reason for me to get solar was to have something when the power went out. Neither company told me upfront that I would have no power if the grid went down, but I did my research ahead of time. There are solar tax credits in Oregon, but consumers are not eligible for them. You 'have' to go through a contractor to get said credit, because the credit goes directly to the contractor, so the the contractors use the credit as a selling point, and simply tell people that what they're quoted is discounted because of the incentive, except the quotes are still ridiculously high. My break-even would have been 20 years. It feels like the electric companies lobbied to get these incentives passed so that they could expand their capacity with the consumers paying for the equipment. At the end of the day, grid-tied solar benefits the electric companies more than the consumers (at least here in Oregon). Any excess electricity that you don't use as a credit goes to the electric company for free, in which they'll happily sell to someone else. I get that they provide the infrastructure, but this doesn't sit well with me. Another thing that annoyed me is that one company used US made panels, but that panel manufacturer 'only' sells to installers. A lot of people want solar, it has become considerably cheaper, and corporations are realizing this fact to monopolize the industry. It's so disheartening.

[@johnkincaide7059]

The Inflation Reduction Act Investment Tax Credits go directly to the taxpayer and not the solar installer or the corporate finance companies, unless you sign way those funds in a contract like a lease or power purchase agreement (PPA). Grid-tied systems are grid dependent. The grid goes down, and so does your solar system to power your house for a very good reason - Lineman trying to fix the grid could get electrocuted from the power in your home solar system. Inverters sense the grid is offline the shut the power off - all inverters are required by law to do this. You can power your home still during a blackout - if the solar installer installs a transfer switch triggers when the grid power is lost. The switch isolates or "islands" your solar power and directs the power to the home while the grid power is out. In effect, you have gone "off-grid". Batteries are inevitably used for this situation, because the solar power can be fed into the batteries, and the inverter converts that power to the home. The batteries even out the power feed. If the cloud reduces the sun's input you don't want your light to dim if you did not have batteries. If it is at night, your panels are not generating power, so you have to draw the power from batteries. 2ndLife Batteries sells to solar installers which are very affordable.

[@illufe]

One thing you have to keep in mind is the property value increase and how much additional property tax you might end up paying.

[@solarmantan1859]

Some states and localities have property tax exemptions. Check your local township.

[@patty109109]

I didn’t think of that but insurance is increasing a little (getting mine installed next month).

[@m3rdpwr]

The third option also means that the installer can put a lien on your home.

[@michaelflett5411]

Flett Exchange is an exchange where homeowners can sell their solar energy credits -SREC - solar installations in NJ, PA, DC, MD and VA.

[@torres_anderson]

I bought a house last year with the 3rd option and my luck was that I have to take over the previous owner lease because they didn't want to pay 7k to remove it

[@waywardgeologist2520]

Solar is fantastic in regards that you can start small and add over time. Start with one panel and an inverter first.

[@outbackwack368]

Nextdoor would be a great asset to see who had solar installed in your area and their experience.

[@tolstory]

No it is not cheaper to get solar, in many decisions, the cost is simply a deferred long term note. The metering company or the local utility company is going to get the most of the 80% use of your solar panel power while you pay monthly for 20 plus years or more. Why would you want to do this. If your roof fails, who is going to remove your panel to replace your roof? You do. When you sell your home or buy home with solar panels installed, it is conveyed as part of the home. That would mean the original contract holder would have to include in the price the cost to replace or to assume the liability of the note due. Buyer and seller, be ware.

[@alzuu1]

"The metering company or the local utility company is going to get the most of the 80% use of your solar panel power while you pay monthly for 20 plus years or more." This is patently false.

[@raymondpetrovits2336]

Solar is too expensive for most people and not as cost effective as you might think for the minimal benefits derived from solar. It’s another trendy, feel good toy people think they need. The hosts also didn’t address how some insurance companies will cancel your coverage if they believe you over energized your home with too many panels.

[@fiorentinomario]

You're right! I feel fantastic that I pay nada every month for electricity. Here in SW Florida our AC runs 10 months a year, plus the pool pump runs 8 hours a day. Our electric bills used to average $150.00/$200.00 a month before I had solar installed.

[@carynstl]

I've had it on my roof for 13yrs now. 1st, my utility only allowed a system that equaled my usage. My homeowners covers it the same as a roof. I had no additional cost or Ryder's on my policy. I love my $2.90 monthly bill. In 13yrs, my most expensive bill was $22.00 this was one year in February when snow covered the modules for a few weeks...

[@mikegreen3613]

​@@carynstlso your implying you bought them straight out or took out a loan not with the solar company?

[@mikegreen3613]

I'm starting to see a patern with these comments that make me feel there are a lot of solar companies commenting on this page. You are spot on. So many people I know leased these panels and are being crushed by two electric bills. Batteries cost an additional 30k in most cases. 2 to 3 % rate hike each year. Your roof has to be brand new tho they say no more then 10 years. If the roof is already 10 years old and the panels last 25 Your roof will be shot before the panels and you will be forced to remove the panels to install a new roof and then reinstall the panels. Saying that you need a new roof that last 30 years to go with your 25 year panels. There are some home owners insurance companies who won't insure the roof or the panels after installation. 90% of all panel owners are now living under a power plant at thier cost that does nothing for them.

[@ksoriano9766]

I am trying to sell my house, and with this crazy market the solar panels have become a liability, not an asset. I must pay the solar panels myself after closing and they are worth nothing in the value of my home

[@98grand5point9]

Remember, the most common type of solar install/lease does not produce power unless the grid is up.

[@mikegreen3613]

Yup. So it's not like you will always have power. This is all a huge scam.

[@paulrogers6364]

I avoided it totally. Not allowed o. Homes in our HOA period. Thanks..

[@cuder79]

Thank you for this video. I had my solar installed 2021 it was nightmare my roof leaked twice. Solar company did not diclose condition of my roof. Horrible customer service. I had 2nd roof leak since Jan or Feb 2023 and 2nd sub contractor finished reinstalling my solar yesterday not to mention they have to come back again for 5th time to replaced broken tiles they broke. It is making me sick right now. I am suffering emotional and mentally distress since 2022.

[@chrisperry3525]

I've been quoted $50k to 95k, 30% difference in what is needed panel/output wise, hard to get details on it. "We don't finance' and then they talk finance...it all feels very slimey.

[@kippywylie]

How long can I expect a good high quality system to last? And what maintenance is required? We have a 12-12 roof that is nearly impossible to walk around on. This is a great topic and needs hours to fully cover, as like all of you we're getting several promo ads a day. I'm leaning towards cash.

[@solarmantan1859]

Panels nowadays have a manufacture warranty of 25 years. There was a recently study conducted that most panels will produce at 80% output at year 30.

[@coloradod3649]

#1 way to avoid being scammed buying solar panels…. Do not buy solar panels. 😎

[@CC-mj3zq]

Yes it's a huge gold rush get rich quick mentality in our industry now. I've been in the industry with local credible contractors here in CA for 10 years and I always recommend to folks they should make sure to speak with a local company with a track record of business that's willing to give you references and examples of their work without any hesitation.

[@Oldhogleg]

It's something like half the cost to do the installation yourself as the home owner because the solar PV installation industry has been largely a protected industry by keeping installation knowledge, components, and equipment unavailable at your local home improvement centers. By and large there's been no literature beyond general knowledge explaining all the installation steps such as, methods, math, where to source needed information to do the necessary calcs, codes, components, equipment, specifications, options, industrial practices and standards, and so on. I've been an electrical contractor since the 80's, but I had to do a serious deep dive a few years ago digging up what little available information that wasn't hidden from those outside of the industry I could get on how to design, decide which system type was best for the situation, do the calcs, comply with codes, and figure out what were the appropriate components and equipment needed for that particular system and the intended use. If a home owner is willing to do the work themselves, they can easily save on the grossly inflated installation cost, usually cutting the overall price roughly in half. The solar installation companies been making a killing on a protected market that has no competition from DIY home centers, nor from the vast majority of electrical contractors. It's been this way since the beginning back in the 70's.

[@patty109109]

Good info, but my roof is a 45 degree pitch. I wouldn’t go on it even if I got the equipment for free. 😉

[@gabevilla8578]

@askthisoldhouse thank you for doing this segment!!!!

[@flat-earther]

Gabe I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@Suburp212]

I installed them myself and then had an electrocian attaching the electrics.

[@AndyB718]

Solar Scam..Finance for 20 to 30 yrs what needs replacing about the same time you finish your monthly payments. Instead of a bill for electric you replace it with the Finance cost for them.

[@copycat2560]

I received a pressure type of sale to go solar about two years ago when I was 69 years. Today I have a $340. dollar solar bill and during summer months I have a $350. dollar electric bill. On a fixed income of less than 1,300. a month it is difficult to buy food. DO NOT GO SOLAR!!!! Unless you own the company! It is a SCAM!! 😩😭

[@johndoe6032]

Still see ads from scammy companies on YT saying it’s the last year to get a credit even though the credit was increased and extended by 10 years a while. Sad that YT/Google has zero integrity and won’t refuse to show scam ads with false information.

[@verona1016]

No, no, and no. Even the new version of the credit doesn't cover the cost of replacing the roof roof, whether it's done as part of a solar install or not. It does cover solar shingles or solar roof (think Tesla Solar Roof), but not conventional shingles or tiles, no matter how much the roof replacement is "needed" to enable a solar installation.

[@frankcoffey]

--- BEWARE OF SOLAR LOANS ---- Read all the paperwork or better yet use your own lender NOT the one suggested by the installer. Make sure the agreement doesn't allow the lender to make a lean against your property! Much like car dealers that loan is the "end game" for the installer, not making money on the sale.

[@drewoid138]

True. I'd love it but idk who is reliable or effective.

[@mikegreen3613]

Unless you buy them and not lease them, you need to live in a state where the SRECs could be sold for a lot of money, and you get 100% or more energy use it's not worth it. The SRECs are the biggy like in NJ they sell for 300$ . That helps pay that loan off quicker. Unless you live in a state where the electric rates are extremely high, this is more of hassle.

[@jaydee3046]

We have a Tesla solar system and it is pay for power : The solar edge inverter went out. Tesla says we will get another and no cost.One month goes by and we call them. Tesla says the item was warrantied and they are waiting for a replacement. This went on for 2 more months, with Tesla charging us 40 dollars a month. They say the contract lets them charge a minimum amount, and not paying it will affect our credit rating. The money is supposed to be credited for this eventually. Nothing has been said about our paying full rate to SCE for the 3 months.

[@jonathanortiz3137]

I don’t recommend getting solar panels at all I’m 26. I got solar panels at my house when I was 21 idk why I decided to contract $40,000 solar on 25 years contract I thought i wasn’t gonna pay for electricity but unfortunately my light bill still goes over +100$ month & my solar bill is $180 month so im paying car note on my solar & electricity bill. 😮I’m only saving like $50 a month or less. I been wanting to get off the contract but idk how bec im not looking pay for 25 years

[@detailedgaming6039]

No what's literally unbelievable is that This Old House. What I thought was an established trustworthy brand left out the fact that the third option. The lean for the solar panels would mean that if you weren't able to pay them and you accrued enough dept. They could essentially at the end of that rabbit hole cease your home because you can't file bankruptcy on a lien. Never go with the third option is what you should listen to. That's what a honorable non sponsored opinion would say.

[@joshuamarchner1606]

Very concise breakdown. Thank you.

[@cruisingal2]

I have a bathroom vanity problem. Looking for suggestions of something I might not have thought about. The vanity granite top is about 42", while the vanity is about 41" (sorry about the "abouts) because I can't remeasure at the moment. It is being installed between 2 walls that are 43.5" wide. One wall is a long wall, while the other is 12", so the vanity sits out about 10" past the end of that wall. Here are the only things I can come up with. Have sidesplash's made thicker than normal (and make a ledge for it to rest on, and allowing it to rest on the granite top by about 1/8-1/4", and using a gap filler on sides of actual cabinet. The backsplash will need to be custom made as well , but perhaps not as thick because of the faucet controls. I thought about putting another piece of sheetrock up all the way to ceiling to fill the space but that is too much trouble and messy and would need to really thicker than sheetrock. If anyone has tackled this and has pics, I'd love to see them. Thank you all!

[@ikecostner1]

Don’t buy solar panels is the easiest way. Especially if the local utility won’t buy the power you generate Otherwise they want to sell you batteries as well as the solar system.

[@lorealdrayton6164]

👀👀👀

[@hellocollegejason198]

Or only generate what you'll use. You don't have to build a large array

[@dtemp132]

Highly, highly depends on your local utility, which this video doesn't address. Many utilities have net metering. Others buy your power at wholesale rates. Others have time-of-use incentives. Gotta ask people knowledgeable with how your local utility works. For my utility, we do net metering, and my solar system should generate $28k of profit (in reduced energy bills) beyond the cost of the installation over the lifetime of the system.

[@mrhabibramez]

Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for solving the mystery

[@Sircamelo99]

Solar can be good, but like they said you really need good solar exposure. And the battery system that goes with it is pretty necessary in most states. Solar “credits” from overproducing are rare to find at a good rate and often only pay you like 50% or less of what you pay to buy electricity which means to cover your nightly electrical bill you need to produce something like 4x the amount you need during the day. With a battery that’s not an issue, as you can drain them during the night and build it during the day basically making you your own power plant. I will say, i don’t have a battery yet and my panels overproduce, and with Rhythm electrical service my electric bill is often $110-$160 throughout the year, whereas previously it could get up to $550 during the summer months and averaged $200-350 in cooler months. So with the solar loan plus my electric bill I’m STILL saving $100-250 a month on electric. And I live in the humid south, so ac all day and night is a requirement. Once the batteries get cheap enough that financing is cheaper than that amount, I’ll get one.

[@arignateam2665]

We bought a Tesla solar system through a 10 yr loan with a powerwall. Tesla System was considerably priced lower when compared to Sunrun hence our decision to go with Tesla. Tesla will not offer renewable energy credits if you want to go with their system. Tesla does not have good customer service. If you go with Tesla make sure the installation is done correctly. Our system was not producing the kWh based on the system because of improper installation. It took a few site visits for Tesla technicians to fix the issue. Tesla only offered $400 in credit after many hours going back and forth in emails and calls. They mentioned that there is no guarantee on the production since the system was purchased even though it was due to improper installation. I have not received my true up because it’s been less than a year, however I anticipate to owe $ to my utility company due to lack of production from the system. Very disappointed with the customer service overall.

[@joshporter5459]

Great information, thanks.

[@jnicophene]

This is great! Thanks

[@peacefieldfarm_mn]

The solar array doesn't have to go on a roof. Ground mounted systems are the way to go if you have the room. Our solar array is a ground mount, we installed 7.5 years ago, I expect to recoup the cost in another 2-3 years, Then free electricity for the rest of my life!! Cheers!

[@Dirtyharry70585]

They degrade at 8yrs old, perpetual repair and replace. Plus no guarantee those parts will be made or available.

[@dosadoodle]

@@Dirtyharry70585 Yeah, definitely not free for life. But panels are the smaller cost of the install and will continue to get cheaper. Having the mounting ready to go for replacements will make it easy sailing.

[@SP-qt6kv]

Maximum 15 year lifespan

[@alzuu1]

@@SP-qt6kv It really depends on the quality of the panel - many of the higher quality panels will still be able to output like 92% at year 25.

[@Mike-01234]

Gird tie not as good of a deal as it used to most utilities have backed way off on the amount of money, they pay you. They also limit how big of a system you can install so you can't oversize to increase the amount you are paid. The idea being they don't want you having a $10 a month electric bill because they have to pay to maintain a big power grid, power plants, and employees. The only future for solar is off grid with battery storage then you don't need a utility. Prices have come way down from what it used to be with battery storage. Right now, it's about 20-25 cents a watt for a lithium iron phosphate battery.

[@sandragibson2221]

Just don't put them on your home. That more logical. Just try to monitor your electricity use.

[@benb7727]

I literally just had a solar panel advertisement for this video.

[@SurgStriker]

Two things this video missed out on. For one, a big thing the scammy places like to ignore is that most of the time, those tax rebates for solar require you to make enough money that you have a substantial tax liability for the rebate to cover. If you make a lot of money, so you pay a ton in taxes (not including social security and medicare taxes that you can't get back), then you might get the full value of the rebate. But if your typical liability is less than the rebate, you will get less or possibly no benefit. The second issue is how long the solar panels are good for, they naturally degrade over time, and depending on various factors (weather, how well they were installed, how well they are maintained) you might need to replace them sooner than the companies claim. If you do a search for how long solar panels last, you are going to find literally dozens of sites from companies selling solar promising 25-30 years, but in reality many of them won't last that long (some will last longer, again depending on the factors and quality of the panel itself). Also other parts have to replaced more often, like inverters every 10-15 years on average, and batteries (because of capacity loss, just like how a brand new phone lasts so much longer than one you have had a few years, because of the constant charge cycling). And unfortunately battery disposal is an environmental problem, as is the mining and creation of them (puts a little damper on environmentalism. But they are still useful for Quality of Life, especially as more places run into situations where their power grids are less reliable). So don't believe most of what the salespeople will tell you, too often they are trained on sales-not on the actual science behind it (though they throw out all the proper claims and buzzwords to make people believe they are knowledgeable). Do your own research from sites that are neutral, not any places that actively promote solar and offer direct sales or links to places that do sell them. Just get the straight details, find out the specific maker and models of the panels the company uses and get details on things like their degradation rate and life expectancy. Powering your home with solar is a big investment, and you want to be as well-informed as you can be before making a decision.

[@hamidabdanan7795]

Thank you, Michael. My question was exactly what you addressed. What if you did not have to pay a lot taxes, due to low income?

[@alzuu1]

You can roll over any tax benefit you were not able to use that certain year.

[@sssm1051]

After I got my system installed, they ghosted me and was stuck with a non functioning non permitted panels while paying my loan for years! Finally got it working and now I have issues and there's nobody to turn to for help. Run don't walk away from solar panels not worth the trouble and effort time and money wasted!

[@FreekHoekstra]

Want to correct a mistake, if you install solar on your house (properly) Even if you move you’re still going to get your investment back, because it as of day one add to the property value of your house. (Again if done properly ofcourse) there is no downside to doing this if you do end up moving. The one exception to this is when you lease, that can make the process more complicated.

[@joelblack6174]

If you want to install solar, that's up to you, but the biggest scam is solar in general and how it will "save the planet" or "reduce your energy bill." I have friends who have installed solar and they will tell you their electric bill went up. I have installed small solar systems in remote locations for very small needs and they are *not* efficient (i.e. a 12 VDC system using PVCs that generate 18 - 20 VDC which needs to be converted to 12 VDC. Where does that other 6 - 8 VDC go? It gets converted to heat and dissipated). Several things you do not mention: 1. When people talk about solar power, what are they talking about? Whole house or just a few circuits? If they talk "whole house," do they even know what their kWh usage per day actually is? I would require a 60 kWh system. A 60 kWh system costs about $90k. While 60 kWh usage is higher than "average," it is more typical where I live than you think. Do you even have enough roof surface area facing the sun to house a 60 kWh system? On to number 2. 2. While there are federal tax credits, it's currently only 30%. So, let's take that $90k and reduce it by 30%. No, my state does not offer solar tax credits. However, I'm not down to a $60k system because that's not how tax credits work. Tax credits reduce my tax bill. This is not a refund, it's a tax credit which means it's a reduction in the amount of tax owed. It is not a refund. By the way, the longer you wait, the lower the tax credit becomes. 3. Solar panels are still not as efficient as they need to be. Yes, they're better than they were 20 years ago (that number is significant) but it's still not where it should be given all the hype. Speaking of efficiency, who are you going to get to clean them? What are you going to do in the Fall when they're covered by leaves or in Winter when they're covered in snow or Spring when they're covered in pollen or all year when they're covered in dirt? Yes, they must be cleaned and if you're not handy and your relatives are not handy or do not live close by, you'll need to hire this out. 4. Other hidden costs. Are you handy or do you have a relative who is handy? Who's going to maintain the batteries for you? Will you inspect them at least quarterly to make sure none are leaking or swollen or cracked? Can you make sure the terminals are tight? Do you have the insulated tools to do this? I don't care how "maintenance free" a battery is, you must perform maintenance (at the very least inspect) batteries. 5. Remember I mentioned 20 years? That's the current life of the best solar panels. After 20 years, the PVCs break down and become less efficient which means they don't charge the batteries as efficiently (and you may have already had to replace some of the batteries and now you're trying to charge new batteries with aged solar panels). Now you're buying a new system. 6. Since you've replaced your old system, what do you do with it? You cannot just take it to "the landfill." There are chemicals in those batteries (it's a chemical reaction). You will have to pay for disposal and recycling of your old system. 7. Some utilities actually charge you *more* for tying into the grid. You're back feeding *their* system and causing wear-and-tear. So, yeah, utilities increase your utility bill to pay for their O & M costs if you're using a tied-in system. Granted, if you're completely off-grid, this is not an issue. Would I install solar? Yes, with caveats: 1. It would be a small system 3 - 5 kW where I would power just a few circuits (refrigerator, freezer, and a small mini-split heat pump) during an extended power outage (unless you live where I live, you have no idea about humidity). 2. It would have a 50 A disconnect from my service from the utility so it would not be grid-tied. That way, I wouldn't back feed the system (transformers work in both directions and back feeding is extremely dangerous - if you don't know what you're doing, hire it out). 3. I would maintain it. I have worked in telecomm almost 35 years; 17 of which I was a technician maintaining (among other things) DC backup systems at remote microwave sites. I would make sure there are easy-to-follow instructions for my wife in case I wasn't around when something happened. While the video is informative regarding how to *pay* for a solar system, it doesn't mention all the hidden costs that are associated with the system and it mentions the "credit" without stating what a tax credit *is*. If you think that solar is going to "save the planet," I suggest you actually educate yourself before you make a $90k investment (or *any* investment). Do your due diligence and decide what works for *you*. Get off the bandwagon and make an informed decision not an emotional one.

[@LadybugCa-gr2rx]

I have an inverter that is not working and l have 11 solar panels. The panels have been there maybe 20 yrs. I had a company pushing a TPO to me. As an elderly person l don’t want to be locked on to a 25 yr lease. Can l just get the old panels removed d and just use Edison as my energy company. I am losing sleep trying to figure out what to do. Since my bill from Edison is $162. Plus the net metering of another $134. I am not saving any money. Any info would be appreciated.

[@cellsafemode]

in california the power companies have lobbied to make it illegal for you to be connected to the grid and produce more than a few percent more than your estimated 100% power usage. So you generally get less solar generation capacity installed than you really could have for little additional cost, guaranteeing you probably end up still owing some money every year. Whatever you end up doing, i'd steer clear of Sunrun. at the end of 2021, I purchased a 5KW + 1 powerwall battery backup system for 40K and due to sunrun employee turnover and basic incompetence it took 10 months for them to get to the point of installing it (absolutely no delays or extenuating circumstances on my end). Then after inspection failures and and additional delays caused by sunrun, i'm still waiting to use the solar panels I purchased over a year ago and have already been making months of payments on (my solar loan) and likely wont be seeing any ability to use my panels until 2023. If i had to do it again, i'd go with literally any other company than sunrun (this cannot be over-emphasized as to how bad sunrun seems to have gotten). You may be tempted to go with a big national company like I did...but I suggest instead you deal with someone who works local with your local electrical company and city/county. Sunrun pushes their roof warranty and how they deal with your county/city/electrical company to justify their 20k installation labor charge (that's how much i paid over cost of parts). It isn't worth it.

[@jameshernandez5766]

Are your panels finally working?

[@ginacirelli1581]

We don't get much sun in my city, and my house has no real area to put panels on that would look decent and work well. Instead I invested in my electric company's community solar plan.

[@WriteInAaronBushnell]

Got a solar scam ad on this video lol

[@MexSeiko]

What I’ve learn “selling” solar is that, Not all solar companies calculate the size of the system your house needs; Not all electricity providers work well with solar; Solar energy production can be lost without a storage system, or batteries; Most batteries are guaranteed for 10 years, while most loans for the total system are for 25 years; Most households use most of the energy at night, when they’re home, while the solar produces the most energy during the day when the residents are at work and/or at school. In my opinion, Solar without batteries does not make a whole lot of sense. But batteries are more expensive than the panels and begin to degrade between the 7th through the 10th year of usage.

[@shellysdopevids6988]

Did the electric provider for the city you sold solar in have any kind of net metering program?

[@AC3DG]

I'm 9 years into a lease, but not as described. It's a 20 year lease that I paid upfront. They kept the tax benefits, but I get the Renewable Energy Credits. I heard companies stopped offering that type of financing not long after I got it because it wasn't profitable enough. Between the energy savings + REC's the system paid for itself nearly a year ago and I'm now turning a profit on it.

[@johndoe6032]

Sounds like you essentially paid for a system upfront but gave away your tax credit. Sorry but it sounds like you got screwed. A system useful life isn’t much longer than 20 years so the lease cost must have been nearly as much as buying a system, and definitely so if you factor in the credit you gave up. Plus when you consider how low borrowing rates were back then and how much the stock market has gone up in the same time, you definitely would have been better off buying and financing. No question.

[@AC3DG]

Wrong. The cost of the lease was roughly half the cost of paying for the full system outright. The tax credit I didn't get was roughly half the difference between the two. I don't pay to insure it, I don't pay to maintain it. If there's a problem, they pay my power bill in full until it's fixed.

[@JDR501]

Very Informative. THANK YOU!

[@mbgrafix]

*_Dear This Old House,_* Can you guys also do a program on *How To Avoid Heat Pump Scams?*

[@extragoode]

I just got a heat pump this year and while I don't feel like I got scammed there were a couple gotchas that I want prepared for even with a couple months of research. One was that it was overcharged with refrigerant when installed because it was below freezing, so it kept over pressurizing in heating mode and failing back to the backup furnace. At least the furnace was slightly more efficient than the one it replaced, but I missed out on 3-4 months of savings when heating costs were the highest while Russia was invading Ukraine. The other is that it will defrost on a regular interval anytime temperature is near or below freezing even if there's not much humidity where you are and there's no frost accumulation. I put together a detailed spreadsheet to estimate cost savings, but I haven't gotten much real data yet because of the overcharge issue last winter. It worked great October, I'm sure it was cheaper than running there furnace, but I haven't run numbers to see how much yet and this October was warmer than usual anyway.

[@mbgrafix]

@@extragoode Thanks for that info. I suppose that your point about humidity is a place where manufacturers can improve the design by either including sensors, or use the internet to gather data on humidity and thus program it not to unnecessarily defrost.

[@extragoode]

@@mbgrafix the sensors are already there, at least on mine, and the length of the defrost cycle changes based on those sensors, but I think it's kind of used as a safeguard of sorts. It wouldn't be as big of a deal, but if my backup furnace was resistive electric, but that would've required me to replace my electrical service panel and the price was already getting too high, so my backup is still propane.

[@mikey6214]

there is one question no one ever asks about solar panels, "what is the environmental cost to produce and install panels?" and "how long will it take to regain those environmental savings?" Everything is always expressed in dollars and in regards to electricity only. i thought it was all about the environment. BTW, i own a gas guzzling F150, but have purchased enough carbon credits that my truck now has a zero emissions footprint. I believe Mother Nature is happy now.

[@marksanders60]

I’m pretty sure there is no provision that allows the cost of a re-roof within the residential energy credit for a solar installation. You can only claim roofing materials that are installed because of the solar installation that would not have been included in a normal reroof without solar. There was no change in the IRA to this requirement that I have seen.

[@johndicapua]

This is correct. An unfortunate mistake for an otherwise very good video.

[@rosstret]

IRS clarification, solar roofing tiles and shingle systems may qualify. www.irs.gov/newsroom/energy-incentives-for-individuals-residential-property-updated-questions-and-answers#:~:text=Q.%20Is%20a%20roof%20eligible%20for%20the,function%20do%20not%20qualify%20for%20the%20credit.

[@GG-pr3yo]

No freaking way....... anyone that shows up at my door - I tell them to leave. Too many if's........

[@stevenshea9623]

This great to know thank you! Just had a solar company try to sell me a lease about 4 hours ago! Some of these sales people are savages saying whatever true or not. Had to tell him i dont agree to anything unless its in writing and written in plain understandable English. I can see it now...hi we're calling about your solar extended warranty😅

[@banditdog1338]

Solar is the future so get on board but the scammers will take advantage of your ignorance. My electric company has a program to advise people and they told me the orentation of my roof was poor for a solar install not a good idea. The first company I contacted I informed them there could not be a roof mounted system. They came back with a system design for solar panels on the roof and a financing plan. That told me all I needed to know their system would cost 85k to install on my roof. So I did my research bought my equipment and hired a reputable solar installer to install a ground mount system with the proper angle for the panel orientation. I have a complete 10k system installed for 25k out of pocket. Do your homework know what you are buying any why.

[@Andy-kw5nw]

I guarantee you that 20 years from now they’ll be a less intrusive way of collecting solar energy than by putting panels on your roof. It’ll be almost comical really.

[@takethecurseOFFwashingmachine]

I tend to think this way as well. Solar panels for a house are a good idea in theory, I just think right now the product has been bastardized into more of a financial product than a home utility solution

[@JustSomeGuy009]

True. In 20 years you will look at those ugly panels on the roof and home buyers will think, yuck. There are real problems putting those things on your home. And removal and fixing are going to be very expensive. I still feel that if you want solar today you need to look at panels on other structures, not your roof.

[@garyjones101]

On the question of payback being a decision for going solar. Installing solar is definitely for a home you are going to stay in. If that is the case, then the instant you install solar and batteries you are getting paid back by having your monthly utility payment being used to fund your energy independence and by reducing the pollution created by fossil fuel energy. Once you've recovered the cost of going solar, your investment is now putting money back in your pocket to save or reinvest. Solar is a great long-term investment and gives you energy independence, less pollution and a healthier life for everyone.

[@alfredsantiogo1845]

Didn’t know about the reroof bundle credits. That’s kind of sick.

[@drewcourtney376]

The irony of KZbin putting a solar panel ad before I can watch this video was not lost on me.

[@Publiclighthouse]

What does it take for an installer to be NABCEP certified? If this is the safest way to ensure a company knows what it’s doing, why isn’t it mandatory fir installers to have that certification? Is it money or time? It seems like it’s akin to making sure your General Contractor has their license.