How To Avoid Solar Panel Scams | Ask This Old House

In this video, This Old House home technology expert Ross Trethewey teaches host Kevin O’Connor what he needs to know about solar installation plans, financing, and rebates to ensure homeowners get the most for their investment.
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Why Solar is So Popular
Everyone’s phones and internet browsers are full of solar panel ads, and there are now door-to-door salesmen walking through neighborhoods attempting to sell systems. Why is solar so popular right now?
Ways to Finance Solar Installation
There are essentially four ways to pay for solar installation. Those ways include the homeowner paying for the solar system themselves out of pocket, using a third-party lender to secure a loan for the system and installation, leasing the system from a solar company, and a power purchase agreement. The benefits of these options vary.
Cash
When a homeowner pays for their own installation, they own the system. This means they can take full advantage of the solar rebates offered by federal and local governments. While they do have to come up with a lot of money (typically north of $13,000), they don’t have to pay interest. They might also be able to obtain a discount for full payment.
Loan
Some homeowners may choose to secure a third-party loan to pay for their solar panel system. In this scenario, the homeowner still owns the panels, and they retain all of the tax rebate benefits, but they’ll have to pay back the loan amount plus interest.
Leasing Agreement
Homeowners who want solar but don’t want to pay out of pocket or secure a loan may choose to lease their system from a solar company. When this is the case, the homeowner benefits from lower electricity bills, but the leasing company retains all of the tax benefits and rebates, and owns the system.
Power Purchase Agreement
Similar to a leasing agreement, homeowners who enter into power purchase agreements will pay less each month for electricity. They agree to purchase their electricity from the solar company in exchange for the solar company installing the panels on the homeowner’s roof. Again, in this scenario, the solar company retains the right to rebates and tax benefits.
How to Choose a Solar Company
With the ability to finance solar panel systems, get paid for them, and retain tax benefits, there are a lot of solar companies sprouting up. Not all of these solar panel companies are reputable, however. Some are simply in it for revenue generation, and once they land the agreement, there is very little incentive to return and service the system.
Instead of choosing the first solar panel installer that knocks on the door, do a bit of research. Ask friends and family who they used for their solar panel systems. Also, for each potential contractor, find out where they’re from. It’s better to work with a locally owned company than one run by a conglomerate 3,000 miles away.
It’s also important to know how long a company has been in business. Ten years of experience looks better than 6 months. And while a new company isn’t necessarily a bad company, the homeowner should simply do more research to verify that the company is legitimate.
One other thing: Look for Solar North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP) [www.nabcep.org/]. These contractors have undergone third-party certification that ensures they know what they’re doing.
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From the makers of This Old House, America’s first and most trusted home improvement show, Ask This Old House answers the steady stream of home improvement questions asked by viewers across the United States. Covering topics from landscaping to electrical to HVAC and plumbing to painting and more. Ask This Old House features the experts from This Old House, including general contractor Tom Silva, plumbing and heating expert Richard Trethewey, landscape contractor Jenn Nawada, master carpenter Norm Abram, and host Kevin O’Connor. ASK This Old House helps you protect and preserve your greatest investment-your home.
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How To Avoid Solar Panel Scams | Ask This Old House
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[@Kerrsartisticgifts]

I answered an ad that said this solar company would rent my roof to install solar. When they came they said they didn't want to rent my roof but they could put $60,000 worth of panels in my yard and arrange financing. According to them after 20 yrs the panels would have paid for themselves and I could buy them for $1 So, for 20 years I'd have their panels on my property, with a lien on my property for the $60,000 financing loan and everyone makes money except me, the guy with the roof.

[@TJO1733]

The lenghts banks go to screw the single person is amazing.

[@volvo09]

Yeah, the cooperation between lenders is crazy. So much of this "green" agenda is to get more money moving. I get that there is energy reductions, but it's not right when a young family gets bankrupted. I love the wilderness as much as everyone else (I live in the woods) but sneaking people into home improvement loans and vehicle loans is not the solution. I simply wish more education was placed on staying out of debt. I moved to stay out of debt, my last town would have bankrupted me.

[@flat-earther]

TJO I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@TJO1733]

@@flat-earther not that big on poor comedy, sorry

[@Krazie-Ivan]

@@flat-earther ...we should just aim the flat panel of earth at the sun to get max efficiency out of our PV arrays 24/7. Bet if we get everyone to meet up in the lower-right corner, it'll be enough weight... Spread the word!

[@flat-earther]

@@Krazie-Ivan I believe you don't even know what flat earth is. You have a distorted view of flat earth. I suggest watching the series first.

[@thecappy]

It really is a shame that it feels like dealing with a used car salesman when talking to these people.

[@johndoe6032]

Shop around and find a good company. I got a few clear salesmen but one buy I talked to was very clearly an engineer by trade and not a salesman. He was the only one who honestly told me that he would only recommend solar for me if I really wanted to go green and said he wouldn’t bother if he had my home. And it definitely wasn’t a play because o knew that going in.

[@andreaberryman5354]

That is what real estate has become-total Shark Tank.

[@manictiger]

I'm sick of it. I'm not talking to any of them anymore, unless I solicit them first. I've thought about all the salespeople I've talked to, all the times they've lied, all the times I cancelled because I learned about something they didn't talk about, etc. Entire waste of time. All of their jobs are the result of a post-scarcity industrial era. We don't need useful people anymore, so we create these kinds of jobs to keep them busy.

[@mpoulin]

My brother is a real estate agent and has seen many sales fall through because of solar leases. New buyers often don't want to take the leases over and just move on.

[@volvo09]

I also wouldn't. It's amazing how home loans can be twisted up into such a mess, loans on top of loans.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

Not just leases, but even owner-purchased when there's a loan leftover as they have a lien on the home so it must be paid off or transferred to the new purchaser. The original purchaser pocketed all the tax credits while you get nothing.

[@mpoulin]

@@oldtwinsna8347 Good point. I didn't think of that.

[@Off-Grid]

Yep, I'm in real estates and it happens a lot.

[@davidjohnson1284]

What I would say, is your brother needs to become an expert in how to navigate these transactions as they will be more plentiful in the next 5 to 10 years. So many more people are getting solar installed on their roof and your brother wants to be well positions to navigate this experly so that the bulk of your business will come to him based on his expertise in navigating the situation instead of him, putting his head in the sand when it relates to opportunity lost for his sales quiver.

[@Bruxollini]

We need more electricians that are qualified for and willing to install homeowners systems. It’s so much cheaper buying the equipment yourself nowadays and have a qualified and licensed electrician install it, it’s almost plug and play nowadays.

[@gizmobowen]

So many people are getting scammed by solar installers right now, it's amazing. This information needs to be spread to every person thinking about solar. I've had to talk so many friends and family out of horrible solar deals because there was no way it was ever going to be financially viable. I got solar when my state had incentives, but the budget was allocated in the first year and there haven't been state incentives yet. Without the incentives, the cost of the system will take way too long, given the relatively low cost of energy, where I live. I know the cost continues to decrease, but without state and federal incentives, the ROI is just not reasonable for many. I wish more people were able to understand the economics before making the leap and this video does a good job of explaining that. Thanks Ross.

[@dtemp132]

A coworker proudly posted in our work chat how he just signed a contract for a solar system. Once I realized they were overcharging him by $30k, I spoke to him privately, and got him to pay a $3k fee to break the contract. Absolute scum national company he was dealing with!

[@flat-earther]

gizmo, dtemp I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@cgamiga]

Biggest impact on solar payback is net metering. Some utilities are good and credit you back retail for generated power... others, charge fees and give you mere cents, or NO net metering at all! That makes it a LOT harder payback... batteries can help, but those are usually nearly as or more expensive than solar is, and more complicated, and much shorter (10yrs?) lifetime vs 20-30yrs for panels. 30% fed credits are a big help also, but even that without some net metering..

[@PicardManeuver]

Literally got a scam ad for solar panels on this video. Unbelievable.

[@flat-earther]

Picard I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@Krazie-Ivan]

As this program is for the DIY crowd, it'd be great to have a few episodes dedicated to the best value home efficiency prep work & self-install of a modern PV+battery system. There's whole youtube channels dedicated to these, but TOH has production means & reach to make great contributions in a time where it's only becoming more valuable & important to manage energy wisely.

[@yourgooglemeister6745]

I found a DIY system on Amazon let's just say it's a whole lot more work than it's actually worth in Saving. I gained some knowledge on how so it works and that's about the extent of the value

[@Mike-01234]

@@yourgooglemeister6745Check out EG4 and Santan solar. I can build 60KW solar panel with 10KW of battery storage for $22k. Depending where you live will estimate how much power you can generate a day. I live in Phoenix, so I get 5.5 hours a day which means about 165KWH a day. Lot of people are not interested in DIY solar or learning how electricity works doing any work on their home I understand who wants to spend all their free time on a project like that. Amazon is not the place to buy anything for a whole house solar system find a dealer. Santan for panels, Signature Solar for EG 4 inverters and Lifepo4 server rack batteries.

[@seymorefact4333]

⛔ THE SCAM IS when the govt gives tax incentives......THE COST GOES UP! Contractors will CHARGE MORE because of the tax credits. Taxpayers are paying for it. IF no govt involved....THE MARKET will work and prices will DROP 50%!

[@Off-Grid]

We installed our own system. Wasn't hard.

[@gabaradama144k9]

@@yourgooglemeister6745diy is the way to go believe me

[@R50_J0]

The ad before this video was for nothing-down solar roof installs.😮

[@kenjigrahame5860]

Love the way he explained this! Every single bit!

[@georgew8586]

I think TOH could do a whole hour long show on solar, you touched on a couple good topics, like the 20 year lease program, which I have read articles from reputable solar installers, they typically recommend to stay away from. Also the inverter does each panel have a micro inverter or a single inverter for the whole system and what happens if the inverter fails. Then there is the whole discussion about batteries and what types are available, such as Teslas power wall or Generics version etc. We plan in 2 years to build our retirement home, smaller, with solar so as to give us options other than for the grid and potential downtimes.

[@berndog4u1]

George, all good questions. I lived in Hawaii and installed solar in 2014. I should have done it 10 years earlier. I figure it paid for itself in 3.5-4 yrs (helped by the highest electric rates in the country). My panel system (14kW per day on a small 2 bed/2 bath house) had a single inverter but I think some larger systems have multiple inverters. Recently in Colorado and need to re-educate myself when it comes to the battery bank. They started peak demand usage (4 to 8pm) billing here and I think a battery system may help level out the bill even more, plus inevitably will have an electric vehicle and overnight charging from a battery wall would be nice to have.

[@siberwolf33]

I can tell you that the current microinverters are a big step forward technologically. They are far more reliable than the bulky old inverters. Going with an established company and low APR or upfront cash will provide excellent return on investment.

[@waynekaminski5438]

@@berndog4u1 Battery technology is turning over too rapidly to invest in a battery pack right now. Don't forget that a battery pack poses more of a fire hazard, so home insurance rates will go up. I have twelve 400 kW solar panels with microinverters connecting the panels in a network to a central inverter connected to the grid. Your 14 kW system is way oversized for a 2 bed/2 bath house. My 4.8 kW system covers my 1700 sq.ft. 4 bedroom/2.5 bath house. I have not paid an electric bill in the 12+ months since going live (except for the $10-11/month charge from the utility company for grid maintenance and $65/month on the 100% financed solar loan @1.5% APR). On my recent 12 month True-up, I made $200 from exporting electricity which has paid for four months of natural gas invoices (March - June). My house can experience 90+ deg. F daytime temperatures in the summer months from June-October, and I can still run my A/C at 70 deg. F indoors and not pay a dime of electrical usage.

[@Off-Grid]

All the info is out there. I didn't know anything and installed my own off grid system. Wasn't that hard.

[@Hntr_z]

Tons of great info here for a first time looker that doesn’t want to be bombarded by salesmen! Thank you!

[@cheeseisgreat24]

Solar Leases are pretty much almost never worth it, if you own your home and have a decent roof and location, it is *always* a better idea to just buy it upfront with cash or a loan. With an average payback period of 5-8 years and an increase on your property’s value to boot, it’s just a smarter move. Also worthy to note is installing a whole-home battery to be able to take advantage of the fact that you’ll be generating the most energy when your house doesn’t usually need it as much, and if your power provider doesn’t do Net Metering that’s another way to avoid losses to that inefficiency.

[@Liberalcali]

If you stop paying the loan they can put a lien on your house and take it

[@cheeseisgreat24]

@@Liberalcali And?

[@cheeseisgreat24]

@@Liberalcali That’s true of **literally** every big home improvement project where you need to take a loan out for it. Difference is, with a short payback period, you can likely easily plan ahead for it as 5 years is a pretty stable timeframe to know what you’re doing and what economic conditions will be like for you. If you took a loan out to reno your kitchen, it isn’t gonna yield any economic return for you until maybe when you sell your house, but even that isn’t assured to generate you more revenue than you put into it, but solar likely will.

[@bigdogsolarenergy]

We couldn't agree more with what was mentioned in this video! This is a must-watch for anyone considering solar!

[@ByrdNick]

I have been waiting years for a video like this. Thank you! (Also, the add that ran after this video was for one of the solar lease schemes. Good chance to apply what I learned!)

[@moniqueortiz6164]

Check out the KZbin channel Undecided. He has some great detail videos about going solar

[@joshuamarchner1606]

Very concise breakdown. Thank you.

[@MichaelPace2.0]

Great info! Glad to see you calling out bad actors in the industry

[@randyhaun9127]

The issue I have with the Federal solar tax credit is how the solar companies are taking advantage of it. They use it as a sales pitch indicating that you can receive a credit up to 30% of the installation cost (depending on your specific tax situation), but they artificially inflate the installation cost so that they wind up getting this money. So, you aren't really getting 30% of your money back you are just transferring that 30% tax credit to the solar company. The problem is that all the solar companies are doing the same thing, so there's no way around it.

[@solarmantan1859]

Not necessarily. Every company has different "redlines" (the overhead cost of doing an installation). Everything on top of the redline is profit which allows the company to grow and expand and be there for support down the road (Just as any other company). If you lease the system then yes, the solar company takes the tax credit and return gives you a low-fixed monthly payment. There are more benefits to own the system, every situation varies. When you buy the system, you claim that you went solar during tax time, talk to CPA to see eligibility.

[@This1That0]

This is why i haven’t done the install. They basically feed you a fake loan for 15-18 months then ask for the tax credit money OR they jack up the price per month. I don’t care what profits they want - the tax credit is to help reduce the cost not to gouge homeowners into forking 17K in possible tax credits to some company that moves on and does it over and over again.

[@solarmantan1859]

@@This1That0 You have two options after month 18. Let's say you receive the full 30% the first year on your taxes. You can take that 30% and go on a dream vacation and pay a higher loan amount or you can imply it back into the loan as which it is initially designed for and lock in the low loan amount.

[@samanthas.7791]

And let's not forget the roofers

[@jazzfan7491]

That's how capitalism works. The way around it is to use capitalism -- get a bunch of quotes. There will be some installers willing to do the work at a cost which earns them the profit they need but give you a lower cost. That's how it's supposed to work, anyway. Take note, this system doesn't work if you simply accept the first offer. It's up to you to drive competition.

[@JohnsTrainVideos]

My house came with a PPA through Vivint and it was a total scam. With Vivint PPA I was paying MORE for electricity than just getting it off the grid. They've been sued by many states because their contracts are so bad. I wish my real estate lawyer had warned me when I was signing papers :/

[@JDR501]

Very Informative. THANK YOU!

[@joshporter5459]

Great information, thanks.

[@paulrogers6364]

I avoided it totally. Not allowed o. Homes in our HOA period. Thanks..

[@tesstkohls7448]

Wow! I think I will purchase solar panel contracts for all of my time-share properties, which I bought with money gifted to me by a very nice Nigerian Prince I met online.

[@thezirons]

Thanks for the info!!

[@colinleslie2458]

We have recently installed solar and went with what you basically called your second option which is financing solar through a loan. However, there is a variant in this scenario that you didn't mention. When getting quotes from solar companies many companies will work with finance companies that offer 20 to 25-year loans at sometimes even less than 1% interest rates. They are often able to advertise low monthly payments. This is true, but the way that they do this is by tacking on upfront fees, rather than interest, to the total cost of the installation. They don't call it fees. In fact all the quotes we got didn't really call it anything other than "the financed cost of the system." We had one company that flat out refused to tell us the actual cash value of the system they were quoting us. This means that the interest that you will pay on the life of a 20 to 25-year loan is small, possibly only a couple thousand dollars, relative to the principal. By doing this, they are able to ensure that even if you sell the house long before the lifetime of the loan, they will have essentially made the same amount of money on the loan by adding these fees into the principal up front. Many people when they sell a house with solar installed, but with a separate solar loan, simply pay off the loan with the sale of the house, as the value of the solar is rolled into the house sale. We ended up going with a regular installment loan at moderate interest rates. This has ensured that the principal for our solar is equivalent to the actual cash value of the solar installation. If we decide to sell our house before the end of the loan, all we have to pay off is, the remaining principle on the loan. I suspect low in companies have taken this approach of rolling these up front fees into the principal because they know that many people will end up selling their house before the loan term is up for a 20 or 25 years solar loan. We also ended up going with a local credit union that had special rates specifically for home energy improvement. Just something to know if you are getting quotes or offers that include extremely low interest rates. You might want to at least ask about the cash price of the solar installation to be able to more easily compare apples to apples cost of the system.

[@flat-earther]

Colin I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@johndoe6032]

That’s doesn’t make sense. They have to tell you the true cost of the system so you can calculate your tax credit because you can’t get a credit for financing fees.

[@colinleslie2458]

@@johndoe6032 I fully agree that in the spirit of the tax credit that is how it should work. And while I called them fees, that is really just the closest description I can figure out. One of the companies we got quotes from, which is a very reputable company in my area but not the one that we ended up going with, gave us two quotes. A "financed" cost of the system through their own financer for $50,000 or a cash price for $34,000. The $50,000 estimate included a tax credit of just over $13,000 while the $34,000 cash price estimate had a tax credit of just over $9,000. The same approach was taken by another reputable solar installer that we got quotes from, as well as two other companies in the area that one of my neighbors got quotes from. I would like to know what exactly allows them to do this, as I agree that on the surface it doesn't seem like it ought to be legal or in keeping with the spirit of the tax incentive. Also, those tax credit amounts were for quotes at 26%, before the tax credit was re-upped in the bill this year to 30%.

[@sirmontego2]

@@colinleslie2458 And if you show the salesman IRS Notice 2013-70, Q-14/A-14 www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-13-70.pdf#page=6 which proves that the customer cannot take the tax credit on the loan origination fees, the salesmen will just say "I'm not an accountant." Meanwhile, there are probably thousands of people committing tax fraud because of wrong information from underhanded solar sales people.

[@68Tboy]

@ Colin Leslie All loans work that way including mortgages. That’s why you should never buy points when buying a home. Buying points is just prepaid interest. You either pay the lender interest now or later. Also, any contract will have the actual amount. I’ve sold mortgages and solar and when I client wants a copy of the price you have already lost the deal, because they are going to shop you. That’s pretty much sales 101. Experienced salesman know as soon you ask the client is just wasting time.

[@lolitajones859]

The thing that gets under my skin is that some people encourage me to get solar panels installed but when I ask those people (including my own sister) how much their electricity actually costs them per month, they are rather invasive. They will tell me that they receive a very low electric bill for example like $8, $12, $15 (whatever), but what they won't tell me is how much they pay to rent the panels. However, that is very important. For instance, if your bill is $8.00 but you are renting the panels for $250 per month - in actuality you are paying $258 a month for electricity - not $8!!! I get the impression that they won't disclose that rental amount because they feel foolish or ripped off but don't want to admit it.

[@gabevilla8578]

@askthisoldhouse thank you for doing this segment!!!!

[@flat-earther]

Gabe I suggest watch a 13 part series called _What on earth happened_ by Ewaranon to learn that the earth is not a globe. I got it in my about tab.

[@mrhabibramez]

Absolutely brilliant. Thank you for solving the mystery

[@ricoma6037]

Also check with your HOA for any restrictions.

[@vvalasek]

This is really good

[@boblatkey7160]

I bought my own battery and solar system for about $11,000 and installed it myself with an electrician friend and pulled my own owner/builder permit. Then I took the 30% tax credit. My payback or break even point Is about four years and it will only get better because electric rates are rising again. Not to mention, when I have a power outage, 90% of my house stays up and running.

[@Andy-kw5nw]

I guarantee you that 20 years from now they’ll be a less intrusive way of collecting solar energy by putting panels on your roof. It’ll be almost comical really.

[@takethecurseOFFwashingmachine]

I tend to think this way as well. Solar panels for a house are a good idea in theory, I just think right now the product has been bastardized into more of a financial product than a home utility solution

[@dankellen7580]

We live in the Charlotte, NC, area. In 2022 we installed a solar system sized to fully replace our energy use, as well as a little extra for the anticipated electric vehicle use. We selected an installer recommended by our utility - Renu Energy recommended by Duke Energy. They were be far the most professional solar company I’ve dealt with on our journey, and continue to be my go-to company as we install EV chargers, and contemplate home batteries etc. Highly recommend checking with your current utility to see if they have solar supplier/installer recommendations!

[@rayRay-pw6gz]

Many UNKNOWNS: 1) not all homeowners insurance will cover homes with solar panels . 2) You need to insure the system in case of storm damage. 3) your roof needs to be fairly new. 4) states have different rules governing the system. 5) the amount of payment for energy you generated is much less than what the provider charges . 6) all solar panels and related equipment are not equal.

[@dennisjohnson3276]

Good info about solar. As I am from North Carolina I would like to say that there was a company local in state installing solar and they just went out of business because supposedly they had an issue with a part that was supplied by another vender and neither company wanted to warranty the problem with the solar panels. Also the company lied about how much the homeowners would save in electrical cost.

[@MackenzieHorn]

Please, more follow up on this. My concern after recent research is installers may want to use less expensive panels from a less reputable brand. The warranty doesn't matter when the company is gone.

[@nominalvelocity]

Even the "reputable" companies are subject to being bought/sold/closed and many are in China where all they have to do is hang another shingle on the factory and keep on manufacturing. It's a field where some of the oldest companies are about 20-25 years at the most. It's hard to make a value judgment on warranty based on just that, almost to the point where it's better to assume you'll not have a warranty at all.

[@gizmobowen]

@@nominalvelocity That's one thing I wrestled with when I got my system. Sure the panels and inverters have 25 year warranties, but that doesn't mean much if the companies that make them go away. I think my inverter company may stay around, but pretty sure my panel company is already AWOL. I saw that they got combined with another company but when I tried to contact them, they never returned my message. I didn't need work at the time, but I'm guessing they won't be around to honor the warranty if I need it. Despite it's increasing popularity, solar can still be a buyer beware proposition.

[@dtemp132]

In my opinion, the best company to buy panels from right now is REC, and I also would hold Q-cells in decently-high regard. For microinverters, Enphase.

[@johndoe6032]

I spoke with a guy I know who is also a GE Aviation engineer who is really into solar, so I trust his opinion. He said the way modern panels are made and work they are super reliable, and if they’re going to have any issue it’ll happen very early in the panel’s life, like a year or two. When you think about it, they don’t have any moving parts or other things to go bad. They just convert solar energy. The inverters are the weak point, but even they are highly reliable in the way they work, and people need to get micro inverters for each panel so if one does go down the rest of your array works and the replacement will be a lot cheaper.

[@belavet]

Go with someone that uses panels from a reputable company. Our panels are Panasonic. They weren't the lowest priced, but Panasonic has been around longer than almost anyone currently alive. You should be able to ask for panels from your installer. If they insist on some no name brand you can't even trace the source from, it's possibly a red flag. Having said that, the warranty should be something your installer honors as well. If the panels they installed can't be sourced when they fail, there should be a line in the contract where they'll replace them with the next most comparable thing. So long as your installed doesn't go belly up, they SHOULD be honoring the warranty for you.

[@restoringbonaire]

Good to see Richard's son following his dad's footsteps in a more techy way. 😊

[@teeing9355]

Good Info

[@charlesorsay2389]

We went with a solar coop and found a company with great ratings and good history. Highly recommend.

[@morrmilli7273]

Quality content

[@notoryous33]

FYI, there are two loan options. Solar loans are unsecured loans and generally have a higher loan origination fee (cash value + ~20% fee). The second is a home equity loan which is secured. You pay cash value but then interest rate on the loan. I suggest HELOC bc the secured interested is tax deductible bc you are home improving

[@Off-Grid]

Just buy a system and do it yourself and get all the tax breaks. We did our own off-grid system and it wasn't hard.

[@notoryous33]

​@@Off-GridI did look into doing it myself. But I did not have the time nor the resources to do it. Installing 55 panels on a 30 ft roof and making sure all the installation on a potential tinderbox was done right to code and permitting was done correctly.... Yeah there's a reason some folks can't do it themselves

[@Off-Grid]

@@notoryous33 it's not for everyone, I understand that, buty point is that it also isn't difficult. Most of the systems these days are plug and play all in one boxes that mount on a wall and you simple put line A in slot B and turn it on. Solar installers and others make it seem like an impossible thing that only they can do and that isn't accurate.

[@m3rdpwr]

The third option also means that the installer can put a lien on your home.

[@ksoriano9766]

I am trying to sell my house, and with this crazy market the solar panels have become a liability, not an asset. I must pay the solar panels myself after closing and they are worth nothing in the value of my home

[@jasonbrindamour903]

This is a great "fast" explanation of what has been going on in the money grab of solar power. Solar power can be great but does involve investment and proper system/installation. Shading on one panel can affect an entire system depending on how it's designed. But I agree with the overall...if you can afford to finance on your own and do your due diligence you can offset your energy costs. Today, it seems the "contractors" that are advertised in our faces are there to just take your money....and a LOT of it!

[@gizmobowen]

Regarding the shading issue, make sure you get microinverters that convert the DC to AC for each panel to prevent this. They say that string inverters with DC optimizers also will work, but I'd rather have the individual inverters for maximum efficiency.

[@solarmantan1859]

When acquiring quotes please ask for the cash price. The financed option will have a low apr that is submerged by a 20-30% "dealer fee". If you plan on paying off the loan early under 10 years, I recommend financing the cash price with a higher APR, if available. If you have enough equity built into the home, a HELOC is a great option.

[@michaelflett5411]

Flett Exchange is an exchange where homeowners can sell their solar energy credits -SREC - solar installations in NJ, PA, DC, MD and VA.

[@johndoe6032]

A lot of utilities allow you to by your energy from third party energy suppliers including suppliers who use renewable energy sources. If your home isn’t a good fit for a solar panel system or you can’t afford to buy or lease panels, it’s the next best option. The energy will cost a little more but it’s also supporting renewable energy production and growth.

[@WriteInAaronBushnell]

Got a solar scam ad on this video lol

[@Off-Grid]

Just buy and install yourself. I did, works great.

[@joemomma707]

How!!!!

[@Off-Grid]

@@joemomma707 I put our install videos on our channel. There is a playlist for the solar we did for our off-grid home.

[@boblatkey7160]

I did that, bought everything for around $11,000 and my payback period After the 30% tax credit is about four years.

[@Off-Grid]

@@boblatkey7160 Installed our system during COVID before inflation hit and our summer temperatures got even hotter. I haven't tried to calculate our break even but we may have already realized it.

[@waywardgeologist2520]

Solar is fantastic in regards that you can start small and add over time. Start with one panel and an inverter first.

[@drewoid138]

True. I'd love it but idk who is reliable or effective.

[@torres_anderson]

I bought a house last year with the 3rd option and my luck was that I have to take over the previous owner lease because they didn't want to pay 7k to remove it

[@raymondpetrovits2336]

Solar is too expensive for most people and not as cost effective as you might think for the minimal benefits derived from solar. It’s another trendy, feel good toy people think they need. The hosts also didn’t address how some insurance companies will cancel your coverage if they believe you over energized your home with too many panels.

[@fiorentinomario]

You're right! I feel fantastic that I pay nada every month for electricity. Here in SW Florida our AC runs 10 months a year, plus the pool pump runs 8 hours a day. Our electric bills used to average $150.00/$200.00 a month before I had solar installed.

[@cuder79]

Thank you for this video. I had my solar installed 2021 it was nightmare my roof leaked twice. Solar company did not diclose condition of my roof. Horrible customer service. I had 2nd roof leak since Jan or Feb 2023 and 2nd sub contractor finished reinstalling my solar yesterday not to mention they have to come back again for 5th time to replaced broken tiles they broke. It is making me sick right now. I am suffering emotional and mentally distress since 2022.

[@alfredsantiogo1845]

Didn’t know about the reroof bundle credits. That’s kind of sick.

[@Lolaismypoopydog2036]

As a solar ad plays before the video

[@john36855]

I had solar panels installed under a loan option in IL. The installer “reduced the price” for the panels because they would claim the renewable credits. So READ the fine print!!! I found out too late that they were claiming those credits even though I was purchasing the panels. Also cash should have a lower price as financing has costs on all sides and typically done with a different financing company. Also not mentioned, make sure installers follow local code and get the inspections! If they don’t, the city could force you to pull the panels off. In my case the the installer was a larger company that does care about their reputation. So they did all the leg work on getting the permit and ensuring their work would pass the inspection. 3 years into having the panels and only had a small issue with a cell chip that communicates the power generation with the installer. So far they have been going good.

[@stevenshea9623]

This great to know thank you! Just had a solar company try to sell me a lease about 4 hours ago! Some of these sales people are savages saying whatever true or not. Had to tell him i dont agree to anything unless its in writing and written in plain understandable English. I can see it now...hi we're calling about your solar extended warranty😅

[@MADGUNSMONSTER]

It would help if KZbin stopped running Solar Panel ads incessantly.

[@ChrisGrande]

Wish I had this problem. I can’t get an installer to my house. Will have my electrician learn it and do It for me.

[@H1GH0CT8N3]

What an awesome video. There could be a whole series of how to scope out companies/contractors for the whole host of home improvement projects. Thanks!

[@illufe]

One thing you have to keep in mind is the property value increase and how much additional property tax you might end up paying.

[@solarmantan1859]

Some states and localities have property tax exemptions. Check your local township.

[@patty109109]

I didn’t think of that but insurance is increasing a little (getting mine installed next month).

[@benb7727]

I literally just had a solar panel advertisement for this video.

[@98grand5point9]

Remember, the most common type of solar install/lease does not produce power unless the grid is up.

[@savageredbeard]

The ad before this was for solar.

[@cruisingal2]

I have a bathroom vanity problem. Looking for suggestions of something I might not have thought about. The vanity granite top is about 42", while the vanity is about 41" (sorry about the "abouts) because I can't remeasure at the moment. It is being installed between 2 walls that are 43.5" wide. One wall is a long wall, while the other is 12", so the vanity sits out about 10" past the end of that wall. Here are the only things I can come up with. Have sidesplash's made thicker than normal (and make a ledge for it to rest on, and allowing it to rest on the granite top by about 1/8-1/4", and using a gap filler on sides of actual cabinet. The backsplash will need to be custom made as well , but perhaps not as thick because of the faucet controls. I thought about putting another piece of sheetrock up all the way to ceiling to fill the space but that is too much trouble and messy and would need to really thicker than sheetrock. If anyone has tackled this and has pics, I'd love to see them. Thank you all!

[@chrisperry3525]

I've been quoted $50k to 95k, 30% difference in what is needed panel/output wise, hard to get details on it. "We don't finance' and then they talk finance...it all feels very slimey.

[@cetyl2626]

I could see him become the new host one day

[@johndoe6032]

Still see ads from scammy companies on YT saying it’s the last year to get a credit even though the credit was increased and extended by 10 years a while. Sad that YT/Google has zero integrity and won’t refuse to show scam ads with false information.

[@AndyB718]

Solar Scam..Finance for 20 to 30 yrs what needs replacing about the same time you finish your monthly payments. Instead of a bill for electric you replace it with the Finance cost for them.

[@CC-mj3zq]

Yes it's a huge gold rush get rich quick mentality in our industry now. I've been in the industry with local credible contractors here in CA for 10 years and I always recommend to folks they should make sure to speak with a local company with a track record of business that's willing to give you references and examples of their work without any hesitation.

[@b33rmun29]

How to get numbers ? How much total costs, rebates etc...

[@joecummings1260]

If solar made money, they would pay you rent to allow them to put it on your roof

[@BitchspotBlog]

The problem is, it's really hard to find anyone willing to install and sell you a solar system. Virtually everyone, at least around here, is lease only because they want all of the ongoing revenue. Plus, there are a lot of companies that, if you're not a heavy-duty power user, they won't install it at all because they're looking for those big paydays when you save power. A neighbor couldn't get solar installed because they refused to rent the system and they only averaged about $100 a month in electrical costs. The companies all just walked away.

[@dtemp132]

That's a shame, here in NC there are at least 4 locally-owned companies that are competing for business to sell you a system outright. That said, our power is also cheap, so the ROI time is more like 10-15 years, not the 5-7 years that Ross says in the video. If you're using a very small number of kWh, your ROI time might not be within the lifetime of the system.

[@BitchspotBlog]

@@dtemp132 My sister got a system and her ROI was 3-4 years. She didn't need a lot of panels and she only takes power from the grid in the summer and it's less than $20 a month maximum. Too bad the company she got them from no longer sells outright. It's all rental.

[@edwardrhoads7283]

It is worse for us. Our HOA forbids solar.

[@BitchspotBlog]

@@edwardrhoads7283 That's one reason that our #1 requirement when we buy a new house is no HOAs, period.

[@razredge68]

@@edwardrhoads7283 depending on what your state laws are you might still be able to get solar regardless of what the HOA says. Our HOA had to modify the indentures to permit solar since Illinois made it illegal to deny it.

[@PiNoYeBoy85]

When they come to my door I tell them they are too late and "I'm getting solar installed tomorrow."

[@austinradtke9730]

Does the roof have to be replaced to install solar? I have an old 19th century colonial with it's original slate roof that I don't want to replace.

[@outbackwack368]

Nextdoor would be a great asset to see who had solar installed in your area and their experience.

[@tom95521]

I spent a month reading reviews to find the best equipment available and then I found a company that also installed that equipment. If the installers use low quality equipment then that's a red flag.

[@MikeHoughtonasUnit8720]

funny. the ad i saw here is solar

[@Sircamelo99]

Solar can be good, but like they said you really need good solar exposure. And the battery system that goes with it is pretty necessary in most states. Solar “credits” from overproducing are rare to find at a good rate and often only pay you like 50% or less of what you pay to buy electricity which means to cover your nightly electrical bill you need to produce something like 4x the amount you need during the day. With a battery that’s not an issue, as you can drain them during the night and build it during the day basically making you your own power plant. I will say, i don’t have a battery yet and my panels overproduce, and with Rhythm electrical service my electric bill is often $110-$160 throughout the year, whereas previously it could get up to $550 during the summer months and averaged $200-350 in cooler months. So with the solar loan plus my electric bill I’m STILL saving $100-250 a month on electric. And I live in the humid south, so ac all day and night is a requirement. Once the batteries get cheap enough that financing is cheaper than that amount, I’ll get one.

[@jaydee3046]

We have a Tesla solar system and it is pay for power : The solar edge inverter went out. Tesla says we will get another and no cost.One month goes by and we call them. Tesla says the item was warrantied and they are waiting for a replacement. This went on for 2 more months, with Tesla charging us 40 dollars a month. They say the contract lets them charge a minimum amount, and not paying it will affect our credit rating. The money is supposed to be credited for this eventually. Nothing has been said about our paying full rate to SCE for the 3 months.

[@roysreceptive]

What does it take for an installer to be NABCEP certified? If this is the safest way to ensure a company knows what it’s doing, why isn’t it mandatory fir installers to have that certification? Is it money or time? It seems like it’s akin to making sure your General Contractor has their license.

[@kippywylie]

How long can I expect a good high quality system to last? And what maintenance is required? We have a 12-12 roof that is nearly impossible to walk around on. This is a great topic and needs hours to fully cover, as like all of you we're getting several promo ads a day. I'm leaning towards cash.

[@solarmantan1859]

Panels nowadays have a manufacture warranty of 25 years. There was a recently study conducted that most panels will produce at 80% output at year 30.

[@ginacirelli1581]

We don't get much sun in my city, and my house has no real area to put panels on that would look decent and work well. Instead I invested in my electric company's community solar plan.

[@cellsafemode]

in california the power companies have lobbied to make it illegal for you to be connected to the grid and produce more than a few percent more than your estimated 100% power usage. So you generally get less solar generation capacity installed than you really could have for little additional cost, guaranteeing you probably end up still owing some money every year. Whatever you end up doing, i'd steer clear of Sunrun. at the end of 2021, I purchased a 5KW + 1 powerwall battery backup system for 40K and due to sunrun employee turnover and basic incompetence it took 10 months for them to get to the point of installing it (absolutely no delays or extenuating circumstances on my end). Then after inspection failures and and additional delays caused by sunrun, i'm still waiting to use the solar panels I purchased over a year ago and have already been making months of payments on (my solar loan) and likely wont be seeing any ability to use my panels until 2023. If i had to do it again, i'd go with literally any other company than sunrun (this cannot be over-emphasized as to how bad sunrun seems to have gotten). You may be tempted to go with a big national company like I did...but I suggest instead you deal with someone who works local with your local electrical company and city/county. Sunrun pushes their roof warranty and how they deal with your county/city/electrical company to justify their 20k installation labor charge (that's how much i paid over cost of parts). It isn't worth it.

[@Cyber_Homestead]

I lived in an area where the only solar installers in town were scamming people. I was quoted about $15k for the equipment and $15k for install. After looking into the amount of work for an install, this seemed like a big ripoff. Both companies I got quotes from said they could do battery systems, but dragged their feet on giving me a real quote. The primary reason for me to get solar was to have something when the power went out. Neither company told me upfront that I would have no power if the grid went down, but I did my research ahead of time. There are solar tax credits in Oregon, but consumers are not eligible for them. You 'have' to go through a contractor to get said credit, because the credit goes directly to the contractor, so the the contractors use the credit as a selling point, and simply tell people that what they're quoted is discounted because of the incentive, except the quotes are still ridiculously high. My break-even would have been 20 years. It feels like the electric companies lobbied to get these incentives passed so that they could expand their capacity with the consumers paying for the equipment. At the end of the day, grid-tied solar benefits the electric companies more than the consumers (at least here in Oregon). Any excess electricity that you don't use as a credit goes to the electric company for free, in which they'll happily sell to someone else. I get that they provide the infrastructure, but this doesn't sit well with me. Another thing that annoyed me is that one company used US made panels, but that panel manufacturer 'only' sells to installers. A lot of people want solar, it has become considerably cheaper, and corporations are realizing this fact to monopolize the industry. It's so disheartening.

[@johnkincaide7059]

The Inflation Reduction Act Investment Tax Credits go directly to the taxpayer and not the solar installer or the corporate finance companies, unless you sign way those funds in a contract like a lease or power purchase agreement (PPA). Grid-tied systems are grid dependent. The grid goes down, and so does your solar system to power your house for a very good reason - Lineman trying to fix the grid could get electrocuted from the power in your home solar system. Inverters sense the grid is offline the shut the power off - all inverters are required by law to do this. You can power your home still during a blackout - if the solar installer installs a transfer switch triggers when the grid power is lost. The switch isolates or "islands" your solar power and directs the power to the home while the grid power is out. In effect, you have gone "off-grid". Batteries are inevitably used for this situation, because the solar power can be fed into the batteries, and the inverter converts that power to the home. The batteries even out the power feed. If the cloud reduces the sun's input you don't want your light to dim if you did not have batteries. If it is at night, your panels are not generating power, so you have to draw the power from batteries. 2ndLife Batteries sells to solar installers which are very affordable.

[@jazzfan7491]

He didn't get around to explaining option 4, the "Power Purchase Agreement", a term a solar rep threw around quite a bit to me just this morning...

[@frankcoffey]

--- BEWARE OF SOLAR LOANS ---- Read all the paperwork or better yet use your own lender NOT the one suggested by the installer. Make sure the agreement doesn't allow the lender to make a lean against your property! Much like car dealers that loan is the "end game" for the installer, not making money on the sale.

[@erikanders3343]

Add a battery system!

[@drewcourtney376]

The irony of KZbin putting a solar panel ad before I can watch this video was not lost on me.

[@charlesbyrne71]

Door to door fail to mention that when they need to replace or remove panels and the effects of the rare earth minerals on water systems and the issue of disposal. And the issue of getting your roof/tile replacement to keep your home insurance from being dropped and if that company will be in business when the tiles or roof needs to be replaced.

[@alexvu6464]

What if I live in an area where the escalation rate (2-4%) will never outpace the rate that energy is increased (6%), would a lease/ PPA agreement make sense ?

[@Mr.Pop0]

One company that does solar and pretty upfront about the costs is tesla.

[@johnc7550]

What if you live in area where hurricane or tornado season is a every year thing.

[@jlacson74]

How about installing a windmill in your backyard? 🙂

[@mikey6214]

there is one question no one ever asks about solar panels, "what is the environmental cost to produce and install panels?" and "how long will it take to regain those environmental savings?" Everything is always expressed in dollars and in regards to electricity only. i thought it was all about the environment. BTW, i own a gas guzzling F150, but have purchased enough carbon credits that my truck now has a zero emissions footprint. I believe Mother Nature is happy now.

[@tolstory]

No it is not cheaper to get solar, in many decisions, the cost is simply a deferred long term note. The metering company or the local utility company is going to get the most of the 80% use of your solar panel power while you pay monthly for 20 plus years or more. Why would you want to do this. If your roof fails, who is going to remove your panel to replace your roof? You do. When you sell your home or buy home with solar panels installed, it is conveyed as part of the home. That would mean the original contract holder would have to include in the price the cost to replace or to assume the liability of the note due. Buyer and seller, be ware.

[@acor84]

Choose green home systems. I received many quotes before deciding on them. My system is installed now and I couldn't be happier. By far best company.

[@momzwrite]

.. you sound like a positive-review bot

[@acor84]

@momzwrite nope. Just a homeowner who couldn't be happier with the decision to go solar. You can keep your high electricity bill while I just sit here with no electricity bill lol

[@ryancouture2508]

Big greedy businesses ruin everything.

[@sodakproud]

Sunrun gives the new owner has a plan to purchase or not. There's options.