Why Utility Companies Will KILL Rooftop Solar in 2025

[@luckymanindeed]

I’m 100% off grid and not looking back. It’s not for every circumstance but a mix of sourcing and storage is still important, and I think will continue regardless of what administration is in power.

[@pixelpusher220]

The other VPP concept is they put a battery in your home for free and you get backup power while they use it for grid stabilization. In any event, VPPs will only take a small fraction of your capacity, 10-15%. And better systems let you set how much you'll allow, such as more when on vacay or less when potential storms etc. the more people who participate, the lower the amounts they'd need from any one customer.

[@mattgray9556]

in vermont theres a large vpp program. Have to pay a monthly fee of $50 fee that is significantly cheaper than paying upfront for a powerwall upfront. It works well for my rental that experiences frequent outages. GMP uses the battery for stability and peaker elimination, i get to sleep thru the night and not worry that my heat went out. Plus the fee is deductible. GMP owns the battery so when it needs replacement its on them.

[@dougbertInExile]

I do not believe in netmetering. I started my home generator 25 years, today for 10 months of the year I am fully off grid - ie I do not buy the grid. In winter I use the grid for backup. My monthly fee is $20. My battery is big enough to support me for 4 day. I still building my system, with more panels coming on line

[@tim0877]

Everyone needs solar backup just in case the power grid goes down and it happens.

[@3pbhenry]

One thing not discussed in the video is another way to use excess solar production during the day. Many utilities are building massive battery plants to store excess energy and then using it for both grid stabilization and during very high peak usage periods. There is a new 100MW battery storage facility next to our local substation for just this reason.

[@christopherj2231]

You could add the professionally installed battery to a virtual power plant program and also just grab a 300amh battery a 400 watt solar panel and 1000 watt inverter that will keep the lights on TV/ laptop going and allow you to put so food from the house fridge into a camping fridge if the power goes out.

[@wthharrison7233]

I do that with the EcoFlow batteries. I got my Tesla PWs on the VPP and then got my EcoFlows on a separate system that is not on the VPP program.

[@christopherj2231]

@@wthharrison7233 Yes good thinking.

[@walterpborn9807]

I installed solar with batteries and also made separate electric wiring as well. No ATS needed, although I did install a few manual switches for my ACs. So i can switch each of my ACs on Solar/Grid if needed

[@SolarSurge]

You are very well prepared.

[@Rainbowhawk1993]

Trump: “Drill, baby drill!” Solar Industry: “Fine, I’ll do it myself.”

[@ski1749]

The excess solar power is pushed back to the power company means that less hydro power is needed during the day and makes more water behind the dam available for night time power generation or for later in the summer when water behind the dam would run out. Power companies now are buying excess solar for about 25% of what they charge you to buy power from them - buy pay 25% for the excess power and charge 100% to the household that needs it (they sell it at 3 times what they pay for it!!!). They are often selling the excess power to a house next door. Battery prices have fallen by 50% in the last 2 years and by over 90% from the cost of 10 years ago. Thus people with solar panels are buying batteries and inverters to change battery power back into 120 volts and 240 volts to power their homes at night.

[@darwinjina]

similar to a recent door knocker salesperson. 1, Get a night time free plan and use that night time to charge your battery. or. 2. 1-1 is gone in my state, so buy plenty of batteries to charge during the day (send nothing to grid) and use the batteries during night.

[@needmorecowbell6895]

Yes and no. Residential solar energy is competing with commercial and utility solar energy. In Nevada, Barrick Gold just opened it's own, private solar farm 200 MW. Eagle Shadow Mountain is a 300 MW solar farm that recently opened. A 690 MW Gemini solar project just opened. Copper Mountain is 562 MW. Southern Bighorn Solar is another 300 MW. All of these are around Vegas. It's not that the utility doesn't wany solar energy. They don't want residential solar energy. It's not that there's too much solar. It's that they prefer to profit from it, not residential customers. They're guarding their rice bowl.

[@TheUweRoss]

Sure, they would rather produce it themselves, or buy it from one of these farms at wholesale prices, and sell it to you at full retail than have you produce it yourself.

[@breckfreeride]

Colorado (xcel energy) is moving my area from 10c/kwh in summer and 8c/kwh in winter to time of use that is anywhere from a 60% to 330% increase this summer! They did a rate increase last year too.

[@ClubhouseGardens]

I don't care what Trump says. Prices on solar equipment should drop. If anything, I'm going to double down on my solar setup. Solar is about energy independence, not what the tax or net metering incentives are at the moment.

[@RayJohnson1980]

well i am part of a VPP already here in Australia, and on a standard plan we were pay 35c/kwh for power purchase before solar and batteries and have a $1.35/day grid connection(can't change) and was only getting maximum $0.05/kwh for a feed in tariff. but now on time of use plan during the middle of day we get charged to send power to the grid ~$0.15/kwh(use power or store it) but also at end of the day we can make money at on average about $120/day depending how much storage you have, which i have over 40.5kwh(3xPW3s) with only 15kwp of solar e.g. 5kw to each Powerwall. on a 3 phase system and can send only a total of 5kw per phase to the grid. it is worth doing a VPP no matter the lobbyist want to you think. might be worth talking about a community owned co-op for a community owned battery

[@kentneil7100]

A mix is best for resiliency ❤❤❤❤

[@seymourpro6097]

The best scheme I'm aware of is time of use variable tariff. Charge a battery at low cost time, discharge that battery at high cost times, holding some storage for emergency preparedness. For me overnight electricity is exactly one third of the cost of daytime electricity. I could draw my electricity between 2330 and 0630 into a battery and use it during the day. I could also add solar for preparedness.

[@JeffreySmith-if6ey]

Yep, if you are considering a new solar installation, like I am, just plan on installing the battery back up as well. Even though my power company is providing 1:1 net metering, I am still going to install a battery. It is only a matter of time and they will figure out a way to take away my 1:1 net metering. The 30% tax rebate might also disappear in the near future, so it could be the best time to purchase backup batteries.

[@darwinjina]

what state/city are in that still has 1:1 net?

[@wthharrison7233]

@@darwinjina Corpus Christi TEXAS. TXU energy still have 1:1 net metering. Tesla electric offers VPP programs.

[@darwinjina]

@@wthharrison7233 I'm jealous. Well, I did have Reliant 1:1 net (years ago), but kwh rate was higher than if I did not pick a solar plan, so it didn't really help in the long run. Oh well, its ok i did find a cheap rate. My main focus now is that I need to replace the roof this spring and removing/ reinstalling panels has to be done by certain companies, or it will void the warranties.

[@timfortson]

Hey Neighbor. Great channel. I'm in Myrtle and have an Ecoflow Delta pro Ultra inverter with 5 batteries and the smart home panel 2. I have 12 -460 watt bifacial solar panels. My provider is santee cooper, but I dont sell anything back to them. And def dont want them meddling in my battery bank. Its just for running about 80% of my circuits when the batteries are charged, Or for back up when I know a storm is coming. I can run most of the house for a day, (except the Dryer). Or cut the AC and other luxuries and run for a few of days in an emergency. I think Santee cooper is switching to peak power soon, and i will prioritize using batteries in those time frames with my app.

[@himushkin606]

Why not invest 1st in battery that charges during low time and give to the grid when high times without solar?

[@wthharrison7233]

I am in a VPP program with Tesla Electric. I get paid for my power walls and then the power i send back. Been in it for about 8 months and get about an average of $50 a month credit. So I now have over $400 in credit that I will probably use when the summer gets here. I live in the South Texas coast where summer is very hot an humid. I like to keep the house cool all day.

[@TheUnknownSpartan]

I live in CA… something tells me no matter what Trump does, the power utility companies will be jacking up their rates here!

[@darwinjina]

I get it, not to pick on the state or PGE, but those problems are decades old. we are forced to buy batteries/panels.

[@WillOnParade]

I hear SCE is doing another price hike in 2025. I'm glad our solar system went online a few days ago.

[@glenndiorio8967]

That speaker doesn't realize how many power outages we get in the Bay Area. Needs to do more homework. Yes, the CPUC will always side with PGE/SCE, pocket book says it all.

[@dbsimmons]

The virtual power plant isn't a bad idea. For the use of the battery power in turn paying for the majority of the battery cost. I believe the battery stops at around 50% but if they are paying for it I'd double the battery size.

[@maddeusdoggeus1]

Our Utility Company in Florida cut 1:1 net metering back in 2022. Nearby utility cut it back in 2015. So not all of Florida does full net.

[@royceortiz]

Interesting! I live in South Florida and still have 1:1 net metering. My company is FPL. What about yours?

[@TheUweRoss]

@@royceortiz I believe investor-owned utilities like FPL and Duke are required to offer 1:1. I'm also on FPL in NE FL and have 1:1 here. However, municipally owned utilities and Cooperatives are exempt from that requirement.

[@ryanreeves8931]

A collapse will Never happen. Free market will show that PV systems will continue to decline in costs. Over time it’s a no brainer value proposition. A VPP is something I would do for sure!

[@SoyElDiabloRojo]

100% would participate in a VPP - normal daily usage would easily make the system pay for itself faster, and in the event of a situation (read: hurricane) that may necessitate full battery backup, the control is still to the homeowner to determine if any energy will return to grid, which of course I would keep my batteries fully charged. The utility doesn't get control over your system; the negative response to this idea is very strange and over-reactive. Localized power distribution is a fantastic method of efficiently managing the grid.

[@RayJohnson1980]

set a limit inside the battery on how far they are able to drain from you battery to give you a buffer or assurance that you have a enough to last the night

[@wthharrison7233]

They do.

[@CallyCmart]

In reference to the 1 for 1 solar program via the utilities for the buyback. The Utility purchases all energy at wholesale. It could be any type but it still is wholesale. That is a lot less than the tariff rate they charge you for the actual energy. The same goes for the credit. They repurchase your energy at a rate well below their service cost that they charge the consumer. You are correct that the utilities are removing the 1-for-1. Therefore, if you live in California and want solar, you would want to engineer a system that zeros out your entire usage totals. But remember, the bill has other components, such as customer charges and demand charges. The demand charge is the charge that represents the meter's peak demand at any one time during the month, season or year. A reservation charge allows the utility to realize the most a combined sector of the grid produces at its peak so the grid can handle that maximum demand or capacity. Since California is in love with utility-scale BESS, they should be able to balance the offset from residential or other net-long solar accounts and utilize that energy to charge the Utilities BESS plants instead of using grid-tied generation to charge those systems. Yes, there are line losses both ways that diminish the amount of energy either used or stored. However, the state's ISO and grid deliver and collect that energy and pass those line losses and ancillary costs to the end users over the entire network. So, saying the utilities lose money by having a 1-for-1 program is invalid. The transfer switch costs could easily be mitigated by having the state and/or the utility give you a rebate or discounted sales price on the equipment. It makes sense, and the consumer does not take the brunt of the costs when the utility is benefiting from utilizing the energy produced by the residential consumer account. For VPP/s, it is a great idea to have a standby (we will call it a capacity payment), whether you participate or not. it I similar to demand response where a company pays you for participating then that company aggregates the accounts under the program and make that volume of energy to the grid to use or stabilize an area of the grids situation.. But for VPP or Demand response to work, it has to first benefit the participant and then the off-taker that uses or buys the energy. But currently, it's backward. The demand response company or VPP program benefits a lot more the buyer or offtaker than the account holder participating.

[@danielcapson9842]

What do the power distribution companies charge the large energy companies to transmit their energy to their companies. That should be the basis for what they pay home owners putting energy back into the grid. Easy... The utilities have a monopoly with that comes a limit on what they should be able to make.

[@TheUweRoss]

I have solar and VPP capable batteries (Enphase). Since I also have 1:1 net metering, the batteries are there primarily for back-up. Would I participate in a VPP? Depends how much the power company is offering to buy my power for. At the $2-3 per kWh that Jack mentions, you bet I would! No risk in an outage either because I have 20 kW generator integrated into the system. If the grid is out, it fires up when the batteries get down to 20% and fills 'em back up. However, I doubt that a bid of $2-3 / kWh would happen very often.

[@ByrdWmC]

I use the Tesla VPP here in Marin County, California. I set a limit so that my battery does not go below 50%, to balance back-up capacity to revenue from VPP. Also I have had 2-3 blackouts a year, mostly lasting less than a day for replacing clapped out transmission generation near my house. Did have 3 days without power in December after storm took down 3 power poles, so grid is not that reliable in my mid-century subdivision.

[@trstrean]

I might participate in VPP if the payment makes it worth my while. If it's not a good financial decision then my energy remains mine. Could pay for more batteries to improve my system if the value is there.

[@druugle6105]

Vpp is great with Tesla in California. I’m in control of what I sell and keep during a vpp event. And they pay me $2.00 a kWh. That’s more than 2:1. I actually want to purchase one more battery. I currently have two.

[@wthharrison7233]

You need 2 more batteries. Help out the grid during high demand times.

[@stuff3661]

VPP, yes, but a big if. If I can use my own battery inverter system and not one of their currently required, very expensive and inflexible systems. Also I'd want enough battery storage in reserve for outages. Virtual Power Plant (VPP), my utility calls it a Distributed Energy Resource (DER) in some literature.

[@jamestrimble5680]

Thats a big no to VPP. I am in the process of getting my solar setup and will be running solar during the day and battery at night w/ grid backup and then generator backup if grid is not available.

[@johnwehunt4305]

I live in North Texas on Coserv power. My Enphase is just about there to not need them. If they stop doing net metering than Im going off grid.

[@christopherlawrence7450]

I was under the impression with a vpp that you can set a limit say 50% of your battery that can be sold off. Hence you're not stuck with an empty battery if the power should fail ???

[@brazil7028]

I know most people are in environments where they are pretty much tied to the grid and therefore they are looking to use solar to reduce utility costs. For those who are able to be farther away from cities the benefit of going solar with batteries so they are not tied to the grid at all is phenomenal. Personally if you can afford the up front cost then the benefit of always having power far outweighs any benefit of being on the grid.

[@jasonbroom7147]

Clicked "Like" at the 12:10 mark! These days, installing solar without installing batteries is a short-sighted decision. One possible caveat would be an undersized, low-cost, DIY system for people who either work from home or are retired, such that they use most of their power during daytime hours.

[@dannelson6980]

Can everyone stop using old data? Anyone can watch the grid production in real time so why does everyone keep pulling up data from years ago? The batteries in CA have already took the head of the duck curve and are taking out that morning peak as well. Look at the 2023 curve and lower it 7 GW. The grid is changing rapidly every month.

[@sphillips6357]

In Southern Calif the electric company sells the excess daytime energy to other states for three times what they pay. People are concerned about the electric company not making enough to maintain the grid. But everyone seems to ignore the investment the individual home owner makes to supply the electricity to the grid. The price paid to the homeowner for the electricity because he put up the investment should be the same price charged the homeowner when the electric company put up the investment. I can see a flat rate charged the home owner for grid maintenance, the same everyone else is charged for grid maintenance. But don't mix electricity consumed with grid maintenance. The fair way to net meter compensate, but I acknowledge it will never happen.

[@jjackson3240]

Does not explain why one can't disconnect from the grid in many places. The house I live in has been here for forty years. It paid for its infrastructure many years ago. I don't want to cause power companies any distress or sell to them at prices they are able to set. So my home will use a manual transfer switch and since I can't disconnect completely from the grid I'll use the utility as a backup in the event of a system failure at home. Another item mentioned is that too much solar is being sent to the grid at certain times of the day. Not true. The problem is that utilities have been too slow to realize that installing utility scale battery backup to store that "excess" energy would be to their benefit. They are learning though. And yes, there was a battery fire at the Moss Landing power station in California last week. That stuff happens. Still a learning curve out there. The packs that caught fire were not LFP packs which are much safer than the NMC chemistry that caught fire.

[@waynecliburn2749]

Joe, great reaction video. I saw the original as soon as he posted it and liked the clarity especially about VPP. It became obvious that the VPP's cost recovery for installed home battery storage for solar - the wise choice in any market - must be weighed against homeowner goal for a degree of grid independence. Great observation. The larger problem for all power utilities as they attempt - in many case poorly -- to add renewable base generation in wind & solar, at scale is that their FIXED Base Connection monthly charge on ratepayers' bills (commercial & homeowners), will substantially increase and offset a goal of controlled "independence" from the grid (in terms of the economics). Many utilities like ours in Virginia can pass the capital improvement (risk) costs already approved by the state SCC onto its ratepayers in advance of the delivery of the renewable-source energy. In this case, the huge $10Bx2 (for 100x2) windmills over the coastal Atlantic. Bottom Line: Going rooftop solar -- with a optimized battery storage component -- will likely achieve a significant independence from higher utility costs and yield a slightly quicker payback against base rate cost increases. We need massive proven investment for an increased reliance on nuclear, such as modern SMRs designs, to pivot back from a near-term "unsustainable" brink of failed promise hidden deeper within the renewables dream for base load generation. More innovation is required to let the technologies mature with less exposure of the capital risks on the backs of the ratepayers.

[@HB-yq8gy]

(New Jersey Board Of Pubic Utilities) said Net-metering is one-for-one for now. Changes would not take effect until mid-2026 at the earliest.

[@RomarioAmgad]

Can you share a source supporting what are you saying! I didn’t see anything online about changing in 2026

[@dennisdickinson8337]

Here's another fun one coming up if you're connected to the grid and the grid causes a fire you should have to pay also

[@endstay]

I am on NEM 1 with 1 for 1 reimbursement until 2029. At that time I intend to replace my roof panels with a larger system and batteries. From what I am seeing, the battery technology is rapidly advancing so that the payback period, which presently doesn't justify expensive batteries, will be just a few years, particularly if I can buy an EV with power sharing capabilities.

[@newguy6935]

I will soon have enough roof real estate to cover my electrical needs and more. The problem is I can't find a system that will let me hook it all up to my current main panel. It's like I have to buy manual switch boxes with only 10 breaker outputs and hook them up for separate sections of the house, or automatic switches with only 12 breaker outputs. Why can't I just get a standard 200amp service box that takes all the power from the solar panels/batteries? I'd like to go completely off-grid.

[@wthharrison7233]

EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra.

[@newguy6935]

@@wthharrison7233 How? The best I can do with EcoFlow Delta Ultra is just what I've already described above.

[@rickibaron4816]

In your presentation you did not include Arizona as another state that Net metering was stopped in December 2016. I don't know how many other states may have already done the same thing. I would not want the Electric company having access to my batteries. I am slowly adding more systems to my house so that we can go off grid. We also have a heat pump that works totally off grid up and running as of this post. We have 2 electric cars that we charge from our solar panels. It is great to drive and have no cost at all. The electric company charges us every month a fee because we have solar on our roof.

[@danielstapler4315]

I like the idea of being off grid for electricity but on grid for gas and then having a gas electricity generator that produces hot air and/or hot water and of course an electric storage battery. That way in winter you can recharge your battery on dark days.

[@supremepartydude]

You are right I don’t want the power company accessing my batteries

[@OrangeandWhite]

Years ago when we 1st. Started producing at home green energy. Here in Michigan the power co. Offered I think they called em "green credits" which was a separate contract outside of the net meeting. The green credits allowed the power co. To claim your renewable energy that went into the grid as credit for them to satisfy the state renewable mandate percentage at the time..Seemed like a good gig for the power co. (Look we are producing this green energy.)..with no overhead costs. They stopped these credits when they reached the mandated 10%..

[@philtimmons722]

Looked like you all entirely missed Aligning Time-of-Use with Time-of-Production. That where (for small solar) you shift most of your overall 24 hour daily load into the time range of Solar Production. So if you produce mostly during 9 am through Solar noon and until somewhere around 3 pm, you would shift most of your larger loads -- Air Conditioning, Space Heat, Water Heating, EV, Refrigeration, etc. -- into the Time of Production. By doing this, we are seeing alignment of 70% typical, and up to 90% with working on it. Little to no battery required.

[@HB-yq8gy]

I'm in the site survey process in NJ as a noob. I still have to amend the contract for things missing that I feel very important.

[@picobyte]

They hate home batteries even more. I have fixed rates, charging my battery when power is most expensive feels really good 😄

[@mjbates]

I'd participate in a VPP if i could! I've cut my grid usage by more than 90% with Solar and 4x PW3's while switching from a Gas furnace to heat pump and 2x EV's. I always thought VPP's were for peak times so they don't have to turn on a dirty/expensive coal/gas plant. With the way energy markets work, they still get paid at that higher price, and are able to pass it on to you, with VERY little risk of a grid outage because they could just still turn on the coal plant of necessary.

[@philipgibbons9909]

Thanks for this topic. Awesome discussion. Although customers who who were "early adopters" qualified for NEM 1.0/2.0, those who I speak to seem to forget they are consuming electricity from the grid at night. I can't tell you how many times people tell me they can use as much electricity as they want now because they have solar (presumably most of that use is at night). So they definitely should be charged for grid infrastructure. On VPPs, no problem IMHO. Let's face it, it would be a fairly rare occurrence for the utility to reach in and grab some stored KWH. And if I could sell it to them, even better. Of course, the VPP should have an opt in trigger which allows a participant to determine if they can provide the power. There may be some cases where they may not wish to provide. The VPP will hopefully have a lot of MW at their disposal for some customers to opt out..

[@TheUweRoss]

I am just the opposite. I never cared how much electricity we used until I got solar. Now I watch it like a hawk because my objective is zero out the bill. 😀

[@solargod3671]

He just helped out IL and extended soalr incentive from the state. My friends selling like 30 a month each there.

[@bateslabel]

Batteries are completely changing the game. A solid 20K investment in batteries can literally pay you back 4 maybe even 5 times over 20-25 years. To be honest I think you could invest in more batteries and less solar panels. Use solar panels to charge the batteries only. Not to mention solar panels are improving and getting cheaper. Its to the point IMO you don't even need the incentives unless you are in a home you don't plan on staying in long term. Maybe I wrong, but it appears to me the ability to invest in storing power is changing things a lot.

[@vinnie97]

What batteries are guaranteed for 25 years?

[@seniordockman2946]

Don’t utility companies benefit from net metering in a different way? Peaker plant power is very expensive and home solar systems that utilities can use would either lessen or eliminate the need for the purchasing of peaker plant power by the utilities.

[@wthharrison7233]

If you add enough batteries , that would work.

[@scottv3711]

One thing to think about. Powerhouse has 200 employees, due to low power demand, we have to lay off trained employees, because of reduce load demand. Also have to lay off line men due to stock falling, shareholders need profits. Lack of maintenance to plant, due to low profits. Big storm comes in, solar field trashed, roof tops damaged. Due too lack of trained man power, takes longer to repair grid, or keep plant running due to lack of maintenance.

[@KayakFishingAddict]

I hear you, but that's only one way to think about it. The alternative is that powerhouse, or any other company in a situation where technology is overtaking them, needs to improve efficiency and technology and invest in their employees to expand skills into those new areas. Investors are (should be) investing in the future of the company and reaping the benefits of these kinds of investments which comes from strategic thinking. Unfortunately execs tend to turn their attention into monopolistic thinking (protect the hen house, invest in lobbyists, etc.) instead of forward , strategic thinking around efficiencies and technologies. That works for a while but sometimes comes back to bite them (e.g. Blockbuster Video vs Netflix , etc.). That said, I hope that our power companies continue to improve in this way as opposed to protecting the monopolies.

[@greenmail2012]

The excess energy could be used for data centers.

[@JamesHarris-te6du]

Power co charges for power lines installed to your home in the country back when installed 5 polls and less than 1/4 mile $15000

[@wthharrison7233]

Solar would be better

[@willeisinga2089]

Solar is 10 cent Wp. That is very Cheap. Nothing Beats Solar. Make Money with Rooftop Solar. Clean Cheap Solar Electricity is for Free.😅👍👍👍🌹🌹🌹

[@blainecelestaine4543]

I hate the argument that the UC investment is greater than the solar site owner. Relatively it is the same. 0 export is the future

[@keithpvbatt2040]

Utility’s have a centralized power production design that is subject 10% to 50% line loses. This is not talked about by them for a reason. If solar production is 1000watts near point of use the reduction at the generation source is 1100 to 1500 watts. This is a value the utilities like to hide.

[@tajdvl-advocate6113]

Transmission losses are included in the cost of the centralized electricity distribution and yet centralized distribution is still far less expensive than even subsidized solar installations like up here in the Seattle.

[@SolarSurge]

Good observation. So distributed solar generation does save the power company even if they are taking your power and selling to your neighbor at the same price per kWh.

[@seaplaneguy1]

No, solar PV will be killed by reality. When everybody has solar on roof, the grid does not want the output. It will cost money to have solar installed and lined to grid. The only way to use solar is to store it in a battery or make fuel. Battery costs are insane, so the only option is fuel making. Old ICE cars are 15%. New combustion will be up to 75%. So, making fuel will make sense and storing fuel (Ethanol) is the safest way to store energy. Solar thermal on houses and building, along with nuclear for grid will be the end game. nuclear = grid loads + fuel making. Nothing besides nuclear with fuel making consuming the excess as grid varies. Put nuclear at peak of day and make fuel to control voltage and frequency. This the the lowest cost grid possible and does not require "smart" tech that turns off customers power (which they hate). Solar PV will be gone when new engine tech allows solar THERMAL to convert heat to electricity. Thermal captures 5x more energy than PV. This makes heating/cooling nearly free, whereas with PV and heat pump, the cost is around 30 cents/kwh vs 0.1 cent/kwh for thermal. No way will PV survive.

[@danmccoy6164]

Solar thermal panels cost 6-12 times what pv panels cost. Plus any where north you have to pay for and maintain antifreeze. And what kind of fuel are you going to produce? Hydrogen? It requires very high pressure storage. So you have to purchase supply and storage systems to handle that Hydrogen. Ethanol? You have to plant corn. Or sugar cane. You have to have the acreage to grow it. Instead of growing food. You are at the mercy of nature, weather. To get it to grow. Then you have to pick it. Go through the process of turning it to Ethanol. Then have the capacity to store/distribute it. Not going to happen. I just purchased 60 390watt panels for $112 apiece. And 85.8 kw of batteries for less than $20,000. That I will be installing myself. Nuclear for grid I do agree.

[@seaplaneguy1]

@@danmccoy6164 Actually, my solar thermal tech has same electricity output with 5x more total energy for thermal loads. KEY. A Tesla PV roof costs $5000/square = $537.6/m^2. A 2 meter panel = $1075/panel with the same size as your panel (2 m^2). Your tech is $112/2 = $56/m^2 or 9.6 times less costs. Your tech is $520.9/square and requires a new roof under it before install. Asphalt roof is $700/square. Total is 1221/square. Tesla looks good, your tech looks like trailer park trash. It makes the house look like junk. No thanks. BTW, my tech is hail proof and your tech and Tesla junk is destroyed in a hail storm. Your panels are $56/M^2. 60 x 2 = 120 M^2. 56 x 120 = $6720. 60 x .39= 23.4 kw 6720/23.4= $287.2/kwh Assume 3 kwh/day x 365 days/year x 20 years = 21900 kwh/life cycle. $287.2/21900 kwh = 1.3 cents/kwh without install and new roof. 1221/520.9 x 1.3 = 3.07 cents/kwh. Say 3 cents/kwh. About 1/4th what other panels cost. Great buy. My tech is $1500/sq. 1500/520.9= 2.87 x more than your PV. It lasts 3x longer. 2.87/3= 0.96 of your tech before install but looks like a regular roof and has protection. 1.3 x 0.96= 1.25 c/kwh. Fuel is 2x at 2.5 c/kwh with fuel maker... ~ 3 cents/kwh for fuel. So, my tech is fuel at 3 and your tech is intermittent electricity during day at 3. Battery is $13250/85.8 kwh = 154.4/kwh. House batteries are around $600 now. Great buy. $154/kwh / 5000 cycles = $0.03 or 3 cents/kwh. Notice it doubles the cost of your solar PV. Which brings me to the central problem. 85.8 kwh is 3 days/cycle. I need 30 days. 3 days x 5000 = 15,000 days = 41.1 years. The warranty is 10 years. 5000/4 = 1250 cycles. So, that 3 cents/kwh is actually 4x more or 12 cents/kwh and the CO2 is 4x more than 35 gCO2/kwh. 140 gCO2/kwh is the minimum CO2. Natural gas is 180. But, again, I NEED 30 days, not 3. 10x more. 140 x 10 = 1400 gCO2/kwh. This 8 billion LB gorilla is sitting on your CO2 emitting face. It won't work. My tech is 3 gCO2/kwh as fuel. 3 vs 1400 gCO2/kwh. The ONLY way to store energy and not be a massive CO2 pig is to make fuel. A battery cannot work. Game over. Fuel making is a 100% recycle of the CO2, unlike a stupid battery. If CO2 is the issue, you MUST get rid of the stupid battery.

[@staripe1]

Hawaii still lets you export. However its only for 13.5 cents per kw

[@wthharrison7233]

How much to buy electricity in Hawaii ?

[@TheUweRoss]

@@wthharrison7233 It's stupid-expensive there. 30-some cents per kWh on average.

[@tonySor]

My power company will pay half towards expensive specific batteries. Then they will charge the battery at $0.20/kwh and pay me $0.08/kwh to buy back that power.

[@dennislyons3095]

We are in Calif. We established our system in 2000. We added batteries in 2023 & use the system for self powering our home. With 2 EVs our use case has been increased so--adding to system & charging EV once the batteries reach 100% full. I do not want to have the VPP tapping my batteries either. I DO think there will be some type of major pushback from the tRump admin that will make solar very difficult to justify. Tax incentives, I predict< will go away if the new congress ever get their act together. I am gearing up to take my place off grid & use a diesel generator for those few days when I cannot generate enough with my solar system/battery combination. There will be some of those but Independence is important to me.

[@leeolson9466]

I don’t want to be reimbursed for the power at night. I want to sell in dollars the power I’m making. Thank you very much.

[@DrinkingGMR]

I have no problem with solar, but I wish people would quit referring to it as "green" energy. The carbon footprint to create the panels or windmills, the transportation, the maintenance, the replacement, etc. is most definitely not green. Yes, the wind blows and the sun shines but throw a few million l-ion battery cells into the mix so there is still power at on calm nights, and it starts to get pretty messy.

[@wthharrison7233]

Solar and wind is less of a carbon footprint than coal or oil.

[@danielcapson9842]

why do the big power generating companies get paid before the home owners...

[@seaplaneguy1]

But this video FAILS to understand the REAL problem. It is called the RE U-curve. Tony Seba's (Stanford) graph. We need 30 to 60 days of fuel to run a grid. Same with battery. But 30 days of battery in the Winter would cost $2 million per house. The grid can overbuild RE resources and dramatically lower the amount of batteries needed. The minimum cost is about 7.5 times MORE than X, the average (according to Seba). In the example in this video, if you need 10,000 kwh/year, it will cost you 7.5 times more than what you think. Only a grid can get to this min cost due to the spread out nature of the grid. An individual house CANNOT due to the single location, and thus is stuck with a $2 million battery (not going to happen) to get the 30 days needed. This leaves all the Solar PV people stuck on the grid, or buying back up gensets and running them for 2-4 weeks in the Winter. Expensive ($1-2/kwh). Moreover, the Winter loads drives system costs. Electricity is nearly constant, but heating/cooling is not. A house might use 30 kwh/day, but 300 kwh in heat in Winter. 330 kwh/day vs 30, or 11 times more. The key is how to store energy seasonally. Make and store energy Spring, Summer and Fall, and use it in Winter when the load is 330 kwh/day vs in Fall when it is 30 kwh/day. Fuel making is the only know way. Fuel making requires combustion. New combustion tech is a COP4 heat pump allowing 1/4th the normal fuel use. Key.

[@Bowhunters6go8xz6x]

The only problem with this story from Jack is that (EVEN BEFORE HOME SOLAR) the electric companies raised their rates slightly almost every year or two. 1960's saw rates rise to 2 cents per kwh 1970's saw rates rise to 3 cents per kwh 1980's saw a giant jump from 5cts to 6cts and even 7cts per kwh 1990's saw rates rise to 8cts per kwh 2000's saw rates rise to 9cts to 10cts per kwh Even today rates are still going up every year or two just like they did years ago before home solar, as of January 2025 my local electrical company has raised its rates to 15 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh). Electric companies are the ones with the deep pockets and they need to invest in their own battery storage systems to store unused excess power created by day and then sell it to customers at night when peoples home solar is down.

[@darwinjina]

I think it depends on your area and what plans you can choose. I choose a new retailer which has a poor (spot price about $0.02) buy back but has fixed energy charge about $0.08. But, I know a city alittle north of me is in a coop, so does not have much if any options.

[@wthharrison7233]

Yep we would not need Peaker plants if they had batteries to store all that excess day time energy.

[@darwinjina]

@@wthharrison7233 and ignoring the math on what it takes a supplemental power generation to be considered base.

[@m_sedziwoj]

3:25 power companies are not same as grid companies, I think it is misleading a little.

[@polarbearigloo]

no people and energy independence is king. Yes his conversations and ideas are bad for the industry. But I will still design systems like for apartment solar for your car.

[@jasonbroom7147]

Net metering was a flawed concept from the very beginning. It set a bad precedent, especially since salespeople hyped it up as a way for customers to justify spending money they didn't have (borrowing) to install a solar system on their home. If there had never been any net metering rules, solar adoption would have been much slower, because the ROI would have been based on the actual merits of the system, not a net metering program that favored wealthy customers, trapped others into loans they never should have gotten, and putting more and more of the cost of grid power on those who were less fortunate.

[@darwinjina]

Yup. It's like I buy eggs from the grocery store for $1 per dozen. I buy some chickens and expect the grocery store to buy my eggs for the same $1 for dozen price.

[@Gary-wh7ce]

Utilities have been PROTECTING their income stream will fees etc., and then blaming home solar on increased costs, etc. Frankly, it is one reason why I have waiting for a few years waiting for the manufactures to make the gear work in a hybrid scenario and learning HOW much power the wife and I use and then to determine how large a ground mount and/or battery system we would need when we retire. One thing is clear, heating will NOT be done using solar but we can certainly save $$ going out the door by using what we have already purchased for batteries, equipment, etc. Trump and people like him are all about THEIR profits at ANY cost including the livability of the planet. We really need to solve the battery storage issue. Thanks for the content....

[@lloydmitchell9712]

The devils' in the details; I'd have a number of questions for the power company as to how much control they will have over my system. I too am very uncomfortable with allocating my stored power elsewhere, but money talks and the sooner I can pay down my investment the better. That being said, I can be enticed with a sweet offer; more than $2-3kwh!!

[@bobpoggi6220]

NO WAY I ALLOW THE POWER COMPANY ACCESS TO MY BATTERY

[@jeffrey5537]

Solar for all. That is all. Im feeling good about it. It is value to me. Off grid is the only way.

[@seniordockman2946]

I am from North Carolina. I would not be interested in a virtual power sharing set up and letting a utility take control of my battery system.

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

The Australian grid is 1million km and at $1million per km is valued at $1TRILLION. A century to build. Or $10million per km. The grid is 10times more expensive than nuclear electricity generation plants. Facts of life. Grid owners will partner up with the customers dirt cheap rooftop PV electricity and supply heavy industrial customers moving away from fossil fuels.

[@sctexan5392]

One main thing: if you have a product that does what it says, and is priced fairly, you don't need subsidies or laws forcing the change. To me, that's what's wrong with EVs, are they a decent product yes, the issue is that if you want to sell a product, it needs to be a better product to that consumer. In my case, I'd never buy a Tesla, why, I like a dashboard for my feedback and I don't want to have to go through a tablet to do what I want. Let me just push a button or turn a knob.

[@TheElectrocar]

If that's the case then you also need to remove subsidies or stop playing around with the taxes depending on the cost of gasoline for ICE cars. Depending on the costs of gasoline, some States will remove or reduce taxes as gasoline gets more expensive or add taxes as it gets cheaper. Stop that. Give us the true costs of gasoline so we have a fair and free market to determine if EVs are an overall cheaper product. And can we finally get out of the middle east already? Even if we drill more in the US, there will always be a loud group saying why are we consuming our own natural resources when we can be paying for Saudi's to consumer theirs first before we use up ours, thereby keeping us in the middle east. The more we move to EVs the more investments we make in our electrical grid but even better, the more mining we do for lithium the more mining we can do for other critical minerals needed for US security. Biden already signed the Defense Production act, lets start using it to get out of China's hold on critical minerals.

[@sctexan5392]

@TheElectrocar the main way oil companies get "breaks" is tax credits, not subsidies, a check from the government, like so many believe. If there are price controls, then I agree, they should go.

[@dannelson6980]

@@sctexan5392 An EV is the same thing it is a tax credit. It is keeping your own tax dollars.

[@ski1749]

There is no mandate to buy an EV. There are only incentives to make it less costly. My ev costs $12 to add 220 miles of range (at home) while gas cars will charge you $40 for 220 miles of range. No waiting in line for my turn to pump. No smell for gas fumes on my hands and cloths. No higher prices friday to monday and holidays because your tank is empty and you need to fuel up to get to work.

[@sctexan5392]

@ski1749 yea and no. If ICE cars are being eliminated over time by regulation, then there is a mandate, if you want to own a car. For folks who can find an EV built the way they like, a commuter car can be fulfilled by an EV. Those of us who travel regularly, not so much. If what you see on KZbin, from the EV reviewers, usually pro EV, they say that fast charging sucks and can cost more than gas.

[@SmokeyDaBearr]

"at the end of the day this is about energy security for your home..." who cares about saving hundreds if not thousands of dollars. I have the Enphase IQ system and participate in VPP in California. My true up bill this year was $130! That's the rate I paid for one year of electricity in one of the country's most expensive markets. My friends' w solar told me their true up bill was $1200-$1500. The Enphase system is smart enough to disable VPP in the event that a storm or other situation is anticipated so you get, essentially, the best of both worlds. I used to like Joe's content but as I get more familiar with the ins and outs of solar, it's been less so.

[@richardereed9205]

Then there's Tesla. It is becoming a utility in an increasingly larger number of states. If customers have battery backup, even vehicler to grid, Tesla can arbitrage all that solar to even out the grid so the duck no longer applies.

[@TheElectrocar]

I think the biggest issue I have with utility companies if they haven't been making the needed investments in our grid for decades. It's one of the reason electricity has remained cheap in the US, but now with EVs and AI usage consumption increasing demand on the grid, these companies needed to start raising rates to pay for all of this. And they aren't doing it alone, Biden signed both the Infrastructure act and inflation reduction act which both contained monies for utility companies to start upgrading their equipment, including having extra transformers on hand. In other words we as taxpayers subsidize their business and they turn around and raise our rates, its like being taxed twice. And the net metering is a giant scam to steal solar customers extra energy and turn around to pay you nothing in return. I'll say it again, its a scam that the utility companies can go to the govt to tell me how much they are going to pay me for my extra solar but if I want to buy electricity, they tell me how much I need to pay them. How the f does that work out? I'll try that next time I pay my taxes, Trumps in office, I'm sure I'll get a pardon too for committing a crime.

[@vinnie97]

Solitary confinement for 4 years over trespassing, sounds fair.

[@douglasgreen6550]

I found out about the rip off scam after the first year of being in the net metering program. I won't be signing anymore contract with Com ED or the solar panel company. You can't trust either one of them. It's all about profits for them.

[@wthharrison7233]

Go off grid an not worry about what the electric company charges you. Or just get enough solar / batteries that you don't have to worry about the price of electricity.

[@seaplaneguy1]

Folks, solar has ZERO value when everybody has solar. Supply and demand. The duck curve shown leads to paying to dumb the power as more and more people have solar. The transmitting of electricity is also very expensive, perhaps 3 cents/kwh. This can be more than what a person can buy solar PV for. The on demand nature of a grid IS the real value. Solar has little to no value by itself, just like a car that only works when the sun shines would have little to no value. At some point, the power company will NOT want solar on the grid as they will not be able to survive. Base load cannot work as they are required to pay to dump power when the belly of the duck curve drops below zero. To make a 100% RE grid, it will require 4x overbuild and 3.5x in battery. This will be 60 cents/kwh at house and 90 at super charger. Everybody has to get paid to NOT produce and such a system becomes a laughing stock of stupidity. The only way to end this insanity is to make and use fuels. Make fuels Spring, Summer and Fall, and use in Winter. How it is used is key. New combustion tech will be 75% with CO2 capture. Game over for solar PV.

[@ebuyuto]

To those who voted for p47 & believed that he is a fan of Solar for residential customers & will have American Made Solar Systems for all residential customer going Solar, etc., do you all now feel betrayed? You should! I am sorry that I might have provoking or poking anyone's character(s), but [ like an old saying goes] this is one of those "I Told You So" moments.🤨

[@neil5877]

The quality of the oil is not that good, so it will need to be refined, and that costs money and loads of pollution. Everyone should have solar panels and battery storage of some kinds of solar panels that are getting pretty advanced. This would save so much money, and prices would come down if private companies won't do it. The government should take control of the companies, it will free up money for people, and the economy will grow. Private companies are strangling growth chasing profits.

[@tajdvl-advocate6113]

If people that implement home solar saves so much money please explain why people need a 30% subsidy to financially incentivize solar installations. Something that is honestly cheaper doesn’t require subsidies. Solar is not cheaper. It does not save money.

[@vinnie97]

Sounds like communism.

[@tajdvl-advocate6113]

Realistically sized, battery-only backed systems are insufficient for grid “independence”. An alternate source of power or a significant reduction of consumption will always be required. That means being grid tied to fossil fuel or nuclear sources, a home fossil fuel backup generator or equivalent. I live in the Seattle area. I would need a 27,000 kwatt solar system ($90K installed) to cover my annual consumption. I would need an 80,000 kwatt solar array ($230K installed) to collect my total consumption in the months of December and January. These costs are for systems without battery storage. An off-grid battery system for me would have to be sized well in excess of 300 kwatt hours, less than 5 cloudy days, so I would still have to self ration some days. Fortunately, there is plenty of hydro supply here still but even that is at risk from environmental activists that want to tear down our hydro generating dams.

[@neil5877]

How much energy does the small nuclear reactors in submarines push out, and for how long? Could they be used to power housing and factories, and would it be cheaper to go down this route?

[@darwinjina]

different areas uses different generation methods. some countries still use wood. lol, the worst

[@tombarnes4163]

If solar and wind was the only energy humanity would grind to a screeching halt!

[@wthharrison7233]

Mix that with batteries and then all would be ok. Mixed with batteries would be better than coal fired plants.

[@tombarnes4163]

@@wthharrison7233 I have batteries yet still need to run my 'Combustion Engine' generator to charge them so no batteries are not enough

[@maddeusdoggeus1]

He could wake up tomorrow and say Solar causes Cancer like he did with Windmills.

[@SolarSurge]

Hopefully, Elon will straighten him out on this issue

[@vinnie97]

Regardless of the means of production, nobody wants utility scale energy harvesting in their backyard (with the possible exception of solar on a limited basis).

[@ski1749]

We would know he's lying.

[@Detonator007]

Americans need to wake the fuck up, this climate change is not some “tree hugger pipe dream” wake the fuck up

[@dbsimmons]

He's never really said much about solar. I think I remember him saying they are manufactured in China but not anything negative about solar itself.

[@bryanwhitton1784]

Yes, if I have a Virtual Power Plant program with PG&E I would participate in it.

[@Fastapproaching]

All renewable energies are a joke, unless you don't have a electrical gridnear you

[@PBJ0204]

But But. I thought Trump was the ideal choice over Kamala.

[@wthharrison7233]

Better choice, not ideal choice.

[@dhatguy4785]

This is clickbait they're talking about power companies, not Trump. Sad move, Joe.

[@ep4684]

What a horrible video title. Click bait at its finest

[@louisstanwu]

Musk, Altman and the other tech bros will point out that America needs all the electricity it can to support Stargate but the sensationalist thumbnail was quite entertaining. So cringworthy.

[@darwinjina]

there are solar channels that talk about how the feds are using public domain and federal land to host vast solar farms. Then, you have the Microsoft prototype that they had the power generation connected directly to their datacenter. (example. see Three Mile Island, and

[@thebirdclan]

The Texas power grid isn't even attached to the rest of the US. If Elon can get Abbott to attach it for Stargate, then we'll be better off. I'll bet Abbott could be bribed to do this.

[@darwinjina]

@thebirdclan better to build the data centers near their generation. Top areas include Texas, Northern Virginia and Louisiana

[@wthharrison7233]

@@thebirdclan TEXAS is not for sale.

[@roguegeek]

The problem is the volatility of the new administration and the lack of any clear vision.

[@TheElectrocar]

Republicans call that, negotiation.

[@SolarSurge]

I think the vision is cheap energy, using all sources

[@seniordockman2946]

I am from North Carolina. I would not be interested in a virtual power sharing set up and letting a utility take control of my battery system.