Solving Nintendo's Price Paradox

[@monocle_mage9273]

As a Nintendo fan with a master's degree in economics I love this channel. No shade on other Nintendo KZbinrs, but very rarely do I come across analyses half as eloquently put and well researched as the ones this channel puts out on a regular basis. This video in particular is one of my favourite videos so far. While, to be fair, it didn't actually tell me much I didn't already know from years of following Nintendo on my own, it's just so well presented and put together that it feels like I learned a lot anyways. Keep it up!

[@nintendoforecast]

Thank you so much!

[@vianabdullah2837]

I feel like people forget that DKC Returns on the Wii outsold the entire Metroid Prime Trilogy and Luigi's Mansion 3 sold more than double that amount. Mario-adjacent games are just more lucrative and recognisable.

[@haroldasusus4684]

It’s also because of kids. Most kids like cool space armor but Metroid isn’t appealing to them cause it’s not a bombastic action game, it’s a sprawling exploration adventure. Kids and their parents are both more likely to buy Mario or Mario spin offs compared to Metroid which is more niche.

[@seacliff217]

This. Individual Mario characters are faces of brands that are big in their own right.

[@DioBrando-qr6ye]

Exactly, they don't have much faith in Metroid

[@haroldasusus4684]

@@DioBrando-qr6ye I wouldn’t go that far, Metroid dread sold better than anything before in the series and were honestly in a pretty good era to have that, prime remastered, and 4 coming out. I think Nintendo just has them in a “cult classic/prestige” category and not “system selling must have game” like a Mario kart, animal crossing, or zelda

[@ppidk2267]

@@haroldasusus4684 most kids back then were playing call of duty so that clearly isn't why dkc sold better

[@elsamarks8477]

It is bonkers to me that Reggie had to fight for Wii Sports as a pack in. The Wii wouldn’t have been nearly the hit it was without it

[@globalistgamer6418]

Well, it wasn't a pack-in in Japan, and Wii succeeded there also. Shiggy may have had a point, it just wasn't reflective of an understanding of overseas markets.

[@Mymy_64]

It's pretty much comes down to Brand recognition. A lot more people are willing to pay high prices for a Mario game than they are for a Metroid game.

[@QnjtGWonQNqVsbYyzjx4]

Just economic, price with the best balance between supply and demand

[@happygames9757]

then why is metroid dread full price?

[@Mymy_64]

@@happygames9757 I was referring to the remasters. Also that's an original game made for the Switch.

[@haroldasusus4684]

@@happygames9757because that is still a brand new game. It’s not a remaster. Prime remastered being 40 seems more to entice people to try out prime and understand the controls and genre. Prime 4 will be 59.99 without a doubt

[@chaosenforcerdhm969]

@@happygames9757because new (good) games sell better than remasters

[@Cletus99]

Thank you for the CCs!!

[@RiqMoran]

remember that one time Metroid Prime trilogy released on Wii U for 20 dollars? what a time to be alive.

[@RiqMoran]

possibly the best nintendo deal ever lol

[@gilator.]

Ohhh boy the controls 😢

[@RiqMoran]

@@gilator. i remember being upset about no being able to use gamecube controller actually. but nintendo listened and added support to multiple control settings with the remaster

[@gilator.]

@@RiqMoran yeah the remaster control was very good i played it

[@goSciuKM]

Correction about the Reggie-Miyamoto battle for pack-in title since you've said it multiple times in the video and didn't seem like a slip of the tongue - that was about Wii Sports, not Switch Sports. Reggie wasn't even a part of the company anymore in the company when Switch Sports was releasing and that was also good few years into Switch's life cycle

[@globalistgamer6418]

Yeah, I was wondering about this, but I haven't read the book. Thank-you.

[@nintendoforecast]

Yeah, this is me being a muppet - I evidently meant Wii Sports.

[@PixelPikmin]

I feel like the tier of franchise and if it’s a remaster/remake determines the price. If it’s A tier like Mario,DK, Zelda, Pokemon, slap $60 on it regardless. If it’s B tier like Metroid, Pikmin, Wario or Kirby, new games most likely get a $60 price tag but remasters are cheaper.

[@IISuzakuII]

It's really not hard.... I don't know why these things needs 40 minute videos. Nintendo will price what they can get away with. They know Luigi and a game in Mario universe would move numbers with the price.

[@caseypenk]

@@IISuzakuII except they could have gotten away with charging $60 for mp remastered

[@IISuzakuII]

@caseypenk Barely they barely cracked a million

[@IISuzakuII]

It's was also ported personally by Retro.

[@emberguard5009]

Yeah that's really all it is. Is it a remaster? Is it one of the major franchises or is it a bit too niche to fetch top price?

[@Switch_Lens]

Was wondering how many videos you'd make before you eventually included a demand curve in one of them

[@thierrys85]

In Europe, Breath of the Wild has officially been €70 since day one, while most other 1st party games were just €60.

[@Matanumi]

Funny it was always 80 in canada... lots of sales and

[@jamiek8123]

my guess would be. the Metroid series altho it has a very dedicated fan base, has a very small one, those games just don't sell a whole lot, so they lowered the price in interest of getting more people to try it. whereas games like tears of the kingdom, which was a big project, and had tons of hype and demand for it, was sold at a higher price as people would pay it, and if you look at the sales it seems that was very much the case.

[@sc3ku]

Remember when Nintendo offered Player's Choice and Selects games at a discounted price? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

[@slimb0b]

The pricing of Metroid Prime Remastered was about exposure. Metroid Prime 4 has been in development for a long time and with the hype around it and the snag at the beginning it has to sell well. One way of improving the odds is introduce as many new players to the polished version of the entry to the franchise in the hope that they’ll pick up MP4 as well.

[@Matanumi]

Exposure for a series that.... isn't as high of value

[@Wlightning25]

The demand curve chart and talking about elastic vs inelastic demand made me nostalgic for my senior year econ class. I was waiting for you to bring out the supply curve and start talking about how they would price the product at the point where the curves intersect.

[@RMarr-uy9hf]

Also Metroid Prime Remastered was kind of a way to give new comers a taste of the series in preparation of Prime 4. I also feel like that release was already paid by Metroid Prime 4 in terms of work on the graphic and game engines, if the remaster made money it was cool, if not, not that much of a loss. (That would explain the "no marketing" around the game and the shadow drop)

[@joelsytairo6338]

Maybe they priced it low as like low key marketing for a dead series. It could ultimately end up helping the sales of four as opposed to if they had just jumped straight into the next installment

[@pepboi]

You’re videos are just always so so incredible

[@Zveebo]

An interesting little tidbit about the Ratner story is that while it was pretty disastrous for them and their CEO in the short term, they did actually bounce back eventually and are now (albeit with a different name) one of the biggest jewellery companies in the world. Not sure if the quality has improved though 😂

[@RETR0_P0CKET]

Sales potential vs budget is the general strategy. However, if the sales potential is high enough it will always be full price regardless of budget.

[@benwatts764]

I would love a video on why secondhand Switch games, regardless of the developer, don’t seem to go down in price nearly as much as comparable PlayStation and Xbox games

[@mps64]

I still hate how they priced LM2 but they know it's gonna sell anyways so get your bag Nintendo 😭

[@Smexbi]

Tbf, BotW was 70€ at launch aswell, same as TotK. (Tax included) At least here in europe, 70€ ain't too new for a select few games. (I can only think of those two games tbh)

[@gazcaddy]

This channel is brilliant. I’m a big Nintendo fan and it’s refreshing to see content where content is so well researched and explained backed up with solid data. 👍

[@wootmasterzorsx]

One correction to note- Mario and Rabbids Sparks of Hope is still 60 dollars on the eShop. I know because I got it digitally back in June when I got the Apollo Justice Trilogy when it was on sale, and the price for the full bundle was 35 dollars. And I distinctly remember, and in fact, checking Nintendo’s website, it comes in at 60 dollars digitally. I find it for 20 dollars physically, however, but on the digital store front, it is still at full price, for what that’s worth.

[@nintendoforecast]

At the time I wrote the script, I searched it up and it was at a lower price. (Or possibly I was looking at the wrong store).

[@wootmasterzorsx]

@@nintendoforecast Yeah, it tends to go on sale a lot and can be found physical at bargain bin prices, so I don’t fault you for that. And I forgot to mention in the comment how it’s a very minor correction, that doesn’t affect the thesis of the video. It was still a very good deep dive into their weird pricing.

[@nintendoforecast]

Thank you! And I didn't take any offence - it's fair comment. This video was exclusive to the Patreon for a while so that line was dated by the time the video released onto YT.

[@bluewisdomtriforce]

I havent played metrod before, nor is it a agenraa I tend to play, but I do feel tempted to try it considering it isn't too expensive. All that to say I do believe the it is priced this way to get people to want to try the series out is probably right

[@nintendoforecast]

It's a wonderful title.

[@extremepayne]

34:03 Metroid Prime *Remastered, not 4. I will be extremely surprised if 4 is any less than $59.99

[@evermillcreek]

Aside from Donkey Kong Country Returns being one of only two timeless modern classics from the IP, I think the premium price suggests a free enhancement for Switch 2, which continues to justify the value proposition. Also I think they will want to avoid making the game vouchers a confusing option with multiple pricing nuances.

[@masterhind2036]

Franchise Hierarchies. That's it.

[@daboosa6630]

Sales of previous titles plays a part, or positioning of interest building for future titles I suspect

[@work_days8745]

6:32 You mean Wii Sports, not Switch Sports.

[@the_Acaman]

Nintendo wants Metroid to become more popular. They are also preparing the ground for MP4, which cost them more money and they would really want that to sell well. The Mario universe IP doesn't need as much effort at this point either.

[@joelsytairo6338]

I feel like it’s pretty safe to say we’re never gonna see a MPR situation again

[@KenDanielMurphy]

Use this logic to determine the possible launch and holiday titles for the Switch 2.

[@SparksOpus]

Just fyi, there were select games here in Germany (maybe even Europe) that sold at 70€ already. This includes games like BotW, TotK, SSBU and even Luigi's Mansion 3. So that's that. Great video! :)

[@nintendoforecast]

Interesting that LM3 was in there. Thanks!

[@ChozoFS]

I understand the reasons, but switch game pricing has been a thorn in my side as a budget-oriented gamer/collector who rarely buys games at full price. I own like 3-4 times as many physical PS4 games because I could find most games at my local retro game store for $5-20 a few years after launch. At least Walmart was a good help back in the day, who'd often drop Switch games to $50 or so right after launch, which was how I bought games like Fire Emblem Three Houses.

[@Jan12700]

In Germany BotW was also 70€ at launch and with the 330€ Switch, so BotW with the Switch was 400€

[@cactusman07pim]

You set profit goales. 60 * $40 Metroid = 40 * $60 Luigi Mansion.

[@HorizonDawn46]

26:56 for the shorter version

[@adamcolejones]

I don’t think there is a pattern, they do polls and reports to see how much interest a game has and then they sell it at the price where it results in the most revenue

[@emmiranda2]

I feel Metroid Prime Remastered was $40 because it was a byproduct of R&D rather than a product first. Maybe when MP4 was assigned to Retro, they decided to remaster MP1 in order to understand the power and what can they come up with, with a stablished well engineered game where loading times were well masked. When Remaster was finished, they showed it to Nintendo who said okay we can release it for $40 since it was part of the research and development, rather than a product they wanted to actually make and sell, in this sense, Nintendo got money from a product they did not anticipate and in turn promote the IP. At least this is the explanation I say to myself because it doesn’t make sense otherwise why shadow drop a great Remaster for $40.

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

I am only 30 minutes into this video, but it's already so much better than the Arlo video. Even though that was a good video.

[@GreyVictory1510]

I would also argue that projected sale amount factors in together with the dev cost / target the game should earn. If a game is projected to sell x amount and should make y% revenue, than a lower dev cost title could warrant a higher price point. I don't believe for a second that this is a non factor.

[@nuclearbeeberman]

the calculation for the publisher share cannot be accurate since the 30% cut from the platform holders are not considered. or is this for physical releases just 15%? usually it's 30% for steam etc.

[@kupecxa9843]

you really think people would buy switch oled because of metroid? i consider myself somewhat of a nintendo fanboy and i have bought ~15 of physical releases of nintendo games but i don't even know the series well and have never played any game from the series i think it's likely that many people purchased switch for botw or totk but for metroid? nope. i think what's more likely is that they tried to appease gamers who have heard of the series but never played any game from it (like myself), because the series doesn't have many titles and the last major home console edition was on gamecube. did the strategy work? well, maybe; i have considered buying it specifically BECAUSE IT WASN'T AS EXPENSIVE AS THE OTHER GAMES, but if it would be the normal price of 60 dollars i would never even think about it. perhaps i am wrong and you're right but honestly your theory doesn't make sense to me.

[@kupecxa9843]

*CLARIFICATION* i haven't finished watching your video before writing the previous comment (and i probably should have) but i think the main point that you've got wrong is the popularity of metroid series - i believe there exist fans of this series but i think your perception is skewed (maybe because a lot of your surroundings are such fans) and average nintendo fans care much less about that series than you think. i think it has to do with the fact that series has little entries and used to be prominent mostly in the past (like f-zero for example)

[@emberguard5009]

Yeah I don't think people were specifically buying an OLED just because of Splatoon, Metroid, Mario or any other game that came bundled. More likely they were already on the fence or held off until later in the generation to see what improved iterations would come out and bought while it's bundled with a game.

[@nintendoforecast]

It's not so much that people would buy an Oled just for Metroid - there were other system-sellers such as Pokemon, Mario Party and Splatoon soon after. It's that for anyone minded to upgrade to an Oled, Metroid was a good reason to do so at launch because the game obviously benefitted from it in a way other titles didn't and there's probably quite a Venn diagram of Metroid players and people who like top-end tech. Splatoon 3 would sell Oleds because it's a big game but it would have sold whatever the premiere system was.

[@Almighty4rak]

Don't forget why they priced priced tears of the kingdom $70. "The price point reflects the type of experience that fans can expect when it comes to playing this particular game."

[@malo932]

The best channel focusing on Nintendo

[@Dr._Nicolas]

Guys don't forget use your nintendo gold coins

[@caseypenk]

nintendo’s refusal to discount their games (unlike companies like ubisoft) is their most brilliant strategy. i usually buy nintendo games the day of, not only because of hype but also because i know they won’t go on sale for many, many months.

[@ADreamingTraveler]

This video just made me realize that all Switch 2 games are going to be $70. Eep.

[@miscsloan8834]

Arlo makes his opinions based on "vibes" and whatever comment has the most karma on the reddit topics he's using for content. Usual populist spiel with no actual substance beyond "it'd be cool if they did things like this" vapidness. Wouldn't it be cool if nintendo solved world hunger, why don't they do that!

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

Where did you find populism like that?

[@dmclsl03]

Random jab at Arlo like that outta nowhere because reasons lol

[@bradbradson4543]

Yeah Arlo's has bad opinions. I used to like his videos but eventually something felt off and I stopped

[@caseypenk]

@@bradbradson4543same, it feels like very poorly thought out hot takes

[@exotericidymnic3530]

People forget that pricing is an important part, perhaps the most important part, of marketing. Nintendo knows they would make more money in the short term if they were willing to lower the prices over time or for certain games, but it is much more important in the long term for them to remain a premium company, the Apple or Disney of video games, to maintain their value as a company. While maintaining this high-value pricing scheme in general, they are also able to lower the prices of some of their games, which have obvious value or appeal such as Metroid Prime remastered or Nintendo Switch Sports in order to increase their market penetration and revenue, just like Apple is able to sell both their very expensive flagship products like iPad Pro and also cheaper options such as iPad 10 to maximize their market penetration and revenue.

[@emberguard5009]

I wouldn't really call Nintendo a premium *console* company. Out of the three major players on the market Nintendo is the cheapest.

[@exotericidymnic3530]

@@emberguard5009 Premium companies don't need to be premium in every market they're in, even though Apple is primarily a software company just like Nintendo, their software is all either free or sold for a very low price, and even their music streaming service wasn't a premium lossless quality until very recently. Similarly, Disney is a premium movie and entertainment company, but they also sell clothing and other forms of merchandise which are not premium. Nintendo is fundamentally in the high-end video game market which is a very high cost part of the software market, and it would be detrimental to make their hardware platform very expensive since nobody really cares much about the hardware. This has been abundantly proven by Microsoft's ability to undercut Sony's otherwise more powerful and even Blu-ray capable PS3 by simply offering a lower price, and I don't doubt that Nintendo saw even before such incidents that their hardware sold much better when it was cheaper.

[@pian-0g445]

@@emberguard5009but they definitely have the most prestige amongst all gaming publishers/studios. Their ‘premium’ comes from their consistently good games, and since games are very much enjoyed by children, they make games that are fun for all ages. (This does leave room for other companies, like Sony, to take advantage of the older demographics).

[@emberguard5009]

@@pian-0g445 fair point

[@chinogambino9375]

In my region Nintendo don't have big sales or anything, usually 10-20% off at most, games are $70-80 on release but I pick them up for $55-65 range later. I am more inclined to by a new release Nintendo game at full price regardless because I know it will be good and I have the cart so its not a transient purchase. The value is far higher than Sony who price their games at $125, I don't think TLoU2 remastered or a digital copy of Horizon or GT7 is worth, 2 Nintendo switch first party games. I would rather have Fire Emblem 3H and Mario Odyssey than any single title Sony puts out. Sony chases outrageous margins for overproduced safe low interactivity experiences, Nintendo make high gameplay density titles with decent margin. As a result I have 10+ switch games for every PS5 game I've bought, this was not the case during PS4 or PS3 eras. Nintendo are not a good company in many ways but their pricing is more honest. If they go with Sony's pricing next gen then I think they will eat failure again.

[@Predicting-Nintendo]

I found your Channel Today! Seems like we both do Videos with a bit more Research. Your Videos are far better btw! I have to learn a lot in the Way of the content Creation 😂

[@nintendoforecast]

Welcome to the channel! I'll have a look at your content sometime when I have time. Keep plugging away!

[@TrevRockOne]

Okay, but it's still *insane* to charge $60 for DKCR and LM2. I hope not a single person buys either of them.

[@dannyboots]

Nintendo knows Luigis mansion is going to sell. And Metroid is much harder to sell, effort in the development process is not a factor

[@sebastianguerrero6617]

Eh i feel like people over estimate the value of metroid games and that 40 is too much for those games, but that's just me

[@ufoparty9108]

I'm really happy I found your channel; superb well researched videos. Would you consider exploring how Nintendo have built a reputation for extraordinary craftsmanship but simultaneously publish a series like Pokemon that has universally been criticized for poor quality in their recent offerings? Would love to hear your thoughts on such a topic.

[@globalistgamer6418]

Nintendo doesn't have full control over Pokemon, and doesn't even publish the games in Japan (The Pokemon Company does). I think if Nintendo fully controlled it, they likely would halve the pace of releases and focus more on maintaining quality, but SV still has over 70% aggregate review scores which is at least in the lower end of what they seem to tolerate (e.g. with Mario sports games) and not universal negativity.

[@nintendoforecast]

Welcome to the channel! Yes, I will do more on TPC at some point. Might be a while.

[@reeseseater12]

So before I get into this video, and I am willing to be proven wrong by you and being educated, it seems like they charge what they think they could get away with. I would prefer and love them to go to more variable pricing, however having most games just be charged the same allows those lower budget games to make more profit and cousin any potential losses from the larger ones being sold at the same price. Just thoughts getting into it, now to learn more

[@nindieboy4194]

What do you say about the weird price of BotW in Europe? It was 70 euros and weirdly nobody said anything back then. 😅

[@ausgod538]

Much better video than arlo, it's clear you researched unlike him. Really wish he researched at least the bare minimum for his arguments to make sense.

[@kaiokendo]

Was Luigi's mansión 3 American Made or was the second one???

[@nintendoforecast]

Both were made in Canada.

[@田クリス]

for ref here is japanese price for mainline switch zelda titles, botw ¥7678 la ¥6578 sshd ¥6578 totk ¥7900 eotw ¥7600

[@wumpyjumps]

It's annoying that all the Switch pricing discourse is so American-cenred that even you are talking about the dollar prices and not pounds or euros. It's worth noting that in Europe, the Switch has had a price drop already and TOTK is the same price of £50 in the UK.

[@nintendoforecast]

I get it but most of the channel's viewers are US based and most people can convert more easily to/from dollars. The ideal currency to discuss from would be yen of course.

[@b3ckybot]

There are examples of barebones ports but lm2hd?? It has new models, lighting, textures, more detail in the environments. Yeah there’s no new content but that’s more effort than barebones?

[@nintendoforecast]

Fair comment. I guess I should have used DKC:TF in the thumbnail but LM2 is more recent.

[@charlespobeemensah]

Someone get this to Arlo

[@eatvietnam2682]

Xin chao from Vietnam

[@ruolbu]

hm, weird, there is a comment I'd like to post, but it does not show up, maybe it gets auto deleted?

[@caseypenk]

refresh again, it takes a few minutes to show up

[@ruolbu]

@@caseypenk no

[@nintendoforecast]

Someone else said this was happening. I don't know why though.

[@heatrayzvideo3007]

Nintendo are too arrogant. Nintendo is the definitive premium pricing model, giving the false sense of quality by over charging. It's just too little for the money. Nintendo is increasingly dated.

[@SJrad]

i do feel like the 2017 games are due for a price drop by about $10-20 to for any people that weren’t going to buy them for the original price. Or heck, at least have sales on them once every few months

[@GAHAHAHH]

Also of note: because Nintendo has it's own micro monopoly of "Nintendo games", if they charge a lot or a little it won't effect their profits much as people are already paying close to the maximum they are willing to pay and if they lower the prices people will just play more verity of games inversely if they raise their prices people will buy less games but play the games they do buy for longer e.g. if someone spends ~$200 a year on games then they will adjust the amount of games they buy so it's always ~$200 worth of games and if they are a "Nintendo fan" then Nintendo will be seeing almost the entirety of that ~$200 regardless. Personally I believe they are doing mostly $60 because that is what the rest of the industry is charging for non bargain prices and has been charging for many years with the only exception being very recently they started charging $70 for the ninth gen games. I think Nintendo just wants to stick with one stable number and because of the rest of the industry they don't have much choice. If I could have it my way I would want to just have all games be free and open source and I would send the occasional large sum of money directly to developers. It would likely work out that Nintendo would receive just as much possibly even more money from me if they did that after all "Wikipedia" has received more money from me than KZbin despite me using KZbin a lot more.

[@bestmanalive99]

Not often i get to click on a vid seconds after posting

[@hellsong23]

You make something and sell it for what you think it's worth. That's how capitalism works. Gamers don't seem to get Capitalism and think voting with your wallet means buying 20 copies of a game to say you want another!

[@mistabrown830]

They can still cut the price of games like botw at lower than $40 they have been on the market for 5+ years they have done this ik the past with all of their prior platforms. Nintendo has just became greedier with the success of the switch.

[@Level_Eleven]

Nintendo pricing TotK at $70 was a dick move I’ll get that money back some day, Nintendo.

[@Level_Eleven]

On that note if anybody here knows where to find a ROM of Echoes of Wisdom let me know

[@mikubrot]

@@Level_Eleven nsw2u might have it!

[@CapitalismDeathSpiral]

NO game is worth more than $10. Players value collecting high quality games for a solid low prices perpetually. The console is already not worth the gouged pricing.