Something Gran Turismo Never Gets Right

[@SpaniardNL]

Things they never get right: - chase cam - fun to play single player structure - game mode variety - manual clutch function on controller - normal race start insteas of rolling start - ai drivers

[@ZX3000GT1]

They got the first point right in 3 games, second and third point in 5 games, and fifth point in 2 (maybe 3) games. It's funny that older games have some things better than the latest entry.

[@CookinBeatloaf]

Car and car part pricing

[@LeonardoNicolasNiqqo258]

I'd love to see qualy laps for single player

[@konosuhardbass]

Add timed races to list

[@KingLich451]

You're delusional

[@jdmsnowmonkey7913]

The timing is quite interesting - yesterday, Yellowbird uploaded their review of the Gran Turismo 4 Spec II mod, and one of his critiques of the revised events was the tightening of restrictions of certain ones to force you to use low-end race cars, such as the new dedicated GT300 and GT500 championships in the Japanese events. Given your vast experience of Gran Turismo games, I would love to see your take on the career revisions to GT4 Spec II - whether they've actually improved the progression, to you.

[@JordanAdventure1]

I was also sad how restrictive those events are. Rendering the fictional race cars like rx7 lm edition with less use.

[@justajad2809]

@@jdmsnowmonkey7913 Yeah, I totally get what you guys are saying. I’ve noticed the same thing with the restrictions in GT4 Spec II-like, I get why they did it for the GT300 and GT500 events, but it kinda sucks that it forces you into using those lower-end cars all the time. It takes away some of the fun of messing around with the faster, more unique cars like the RX-7 LM Edition. Gran Turismo has always been about trying out all kinds of cars in different events, and now it feels like we're getting boxed in with these tight limits. I don’t mind a challenge, but I do wish they’d kept some flexibility. Let us experiment a bit more while still keeping the structure of the events. Overall, the progression feels more streamlined, but maybe a little too restrictive for people who like having more freedom with their car choices.

[@TheFurryInShambles]

So him making it like PC2 where motorsport classes in races are actually sensical is sad to people?

[@ej22_gc86]

@@TheFurryInShamblesin that sense, it’s a good change, but gt has largely been about the freedom of choosing any car to race with, so you can see how tighter restrictions goes against it

[@CaptPatrick01]

Overall, it looks like the kind of playthrough I went through GT2 A-Spec with passively, GT4 Spec II looks to force... Though I am willing to suck it up with GT4 since you can't just slap a widebody and a wrap on a road car there like in GT2. (I am conscious about appearances.)

[@vycanismelodis]

It seems that the best mode of progression for a racing game is: Low power + low grip (production cars, which teaches you basic car control and tests your ability to maintain momentum), Low power + high grip (touring cars, which teaches you more racecraft and tests your precision), High power + low grip (sports and super cars, which teaches you patience and tests your car control with big power), High power + high grip (prototypes and open wheel race cars, tests everything so far, your instincts and reaction times, as well as your course memory at speed) Then at the end of the game you can be tested to mastery on all four categories

[@Toropetskii]

This is a sound idea that almost anyone could envisage, and my theory why they haven't implemented it is the focus on credits. My solution is to make it more like real racing - you often don't own your race car, you're a paid driver. Put that into the game - have players start off by winning in "rented/borrowed" cars to earn a reputation and step through this process, then move on to crafting their own racecars more readily.

[@vycanismelodis]

@Toropetskii i like that, going from rented cars to owned onrs

[@pietro22trx]

I never understand why PD never added a subcategory for every car based on the real racing spec (tuoring car, Gt1, Gt2, GTE, LMp1, ecc...) so they can create race categorized right. For example an Lmp1 is different from a Group C car, or a GT300 is different from a Group A rally car. With a sub category in the files of the car you can create events specified for each category but also event with the mixed categoies you want

[@CyanRooper]

I think their intention was to have as much variety on track as possible which is why you can race cars from different categories of motorsports against each other. That seems like the only logical explanation.

[@N7RiZe]

@pietro22trx fun fact, there are unused subcategories in the game files. There aren't many but it proves that PD did think about it at one point.

[@Exponaut_R-01]

I'm fine with the dynamic of Group C era prototypes mixed in with LMP1s and now Hypercar(s) (there's only the GR010 unless they've added more). It's an element of a longer race you'll never get IRL. Older cars generally have a power advantage and will dominate at power circuits, but modern prototypes will be faster at more technical tracks, and in general will be able to run longer stints as they're more gentle on their tires and more fuel efficient. However that's the only place it really works well to me. Gr. 2 is particularly iffy for the same reasons the R2 class in Forza Motorsport 4 is. Even though they land on the rating system around the same place, GT500 and DTM are not going to be able to measure up to late 90s GT1 without the latter having a straw for a restrictor.

[@purwantiallan5089]

​@@N7RiZePROJECT CARS series have their own respective car classes like LMP1, LMP2 and Hybrid LMP1.

[@joshjackburns]

I absolutely love GT300, touring cars and other lower end race cars because they’re usually a lot more diverse in their designs and also usually focus more on handling than outright power, thanks for the great videos bro

[@purwantiallan5089]

The Lexus IS350 GT300 car is my favourite GT300 car on GT5 & 6.

[@joshjackburns]

@@purwantiallan5089 I never played those games because I didn’t have a PS3 but that car is awesome nonetheless!

[@rogehmarbi]

18:05 I know it's a small thing, but I remember back in GT2 when I won my first racing car, it was the Daishin Silvia. I still remember how excited little me was after driving almost nothing but either a modified Celica or 323 for so long... EDIT : 4:10 there it is!

[@Hitperson]

hey same, that orange Silvia got me out of kicking around in road cars and had me finally being competitive against the more serious opponents.

[@100percentSNAFU]

Winning that car was the game changer for me. A proper race car just felt better than a tuned road car, or even one you put racing mods on. It was the handling that was superior. I always felt the the road cars with racing mods still felt like road cars, just slightly better. The game really opened up for me after I won the Silvia as I could now clear some of the events I had struggled with before. Man, this was almost 25 years ago I was playing GT2 regularly but I still remember all the details. And all the funny stuff like hitting the wall on a turn with the Vector and spinning it around about 100 times, and grinding Red Rock Valley over and over for the 500,000 credit TVR Speed 12 😂

[@Hitperson]

@@100percentSNAFU oh god, i used to do the same thing on Red Rock ring just so i could afford the Escudo. I remember trying to do the same event with the speed 12 when i had it unlocked and finding all it would do is spin on the first banked curve.

[@Tacko14]

The R8 Gordini is a perfect, maybe the ultimate, example. I love small classics, and the races you're supposed to take them to. But while you can upgrade the Mini to a very near match to the original Touring Car racer and use it, you can't even enter with the R8, which was tailormade for it. Because it's classified as a racecar. Whenever it IS allowed, it's a hopeless thing of course. So outside of my own lobbies I never get to use it. A car I truly cherish. It's there, but you're not allowed to use it if it stands a chance of winning anything.

[@DamarFadlan25]

I absolutely love the way Gran Turismo 6 rectified the minor mistakes on GT5 in terms of the events grouped.

[@Exponaut_R-01]

In regards to Being Able To Use Them, the issue with races like the Clio Cup in GT4 is, you can't simply obtain the Clio Race Car, you have to tune up a road going Clio and punch up, THEN you get to use it, by which point you've already won the event. Sure you can redo it, but even events that are centered around my absolute favorite cars I don't find myself Redoing more than a couple of times.

[@purwantiallan5089]

I redone that Clio Cup like 7 times both on GT3 and 4.😅

[@justajad2809]

Roflwaffle is my favorite Gran Turismo. I'll financially support you. Bless you !

[@Slipstream179]

I prefer Gran Turismo 2 honestly. He's up there though

[@Max__apex]

Let him have your wife 😂

[@zetsuboukibou1975]

I've never played Gran Turismo Roflwaffle Is it any good? Better than GT7?

[@DanChristianLV]

Wait until Roflwaffle Prologue is released

[@TheEvo86]

@@DanChristianLV roflwaffle HD concept

[@Rumms-Bumms69]

FINALLY someone's talking about that. The underutilized GT300, 2litre touring cars and one make cups (Clio 16V, Toyota Vitz/Yaris etc.) are my all-time favourite classes in motorsport, because there's (often) more action and the field is closer together, which makes much more interesting to watch - unlike F1 ... I wish PD would make specific championships just for these. For example DTM early 90s where you drive the Mustang, E30 M3, 190E and Audi V8 and then a later era in which you find the C class, Calibra and Alfa 155 to the more modern V8 cars of the early 2000s. The same goes for group N and A rally and touring cars. The possibilities are sheer endless IF(!) you use you brain properly. Imagine, you start your carrier with the Aygo/C1/107 (there's REALLY a class for those) and you end up in a Group C monster of the late 80s/early 90s driving on the most difficult tracks like the Nordschleife, Spa, la Sarthe and Special Stage R11 from GT1. Talking of R11: I WANT MY FAVOURITE ORIGINAL TRACK BACK!!!

[@purwantiallan5089]

What about Arta GARAIYA GT300 single make race?

[@chalsjul]

There’s another type of car that I find is criminally underused in the series, at least since GT4: the high-end GT cars. Things like the Lister Storm, the Gillet Vertigo and the top American GTs always get less love than the 450-500 hp racecars (JGTCs and DTMs) and mostly exist to get pounded by LMPs in the top events. This wasn’t an issue in the early games as there weren’t that many LMPs to begin with. But as their number grew, so did the pointlessness of the 600-700 hp racecars (especially as they’ve always been very expensive).

[@splatpro957]

I really wish gran turismo focused more on the touring car type of championships as it's definitely the racing division I follow the most

[@arisneta]

11:20 are we also going to ignore that there's a DAMN D1GP CAR IN THERE?????

[@Exponaut_R-01]

Me who genuinely bought and used the Blitz Skyline as a kid in GT4 not knowing why it was special and thinking "This sure is a weird race car without a wing..."

[@arisneta]

@@Exponaut_R-01 😭😭😭 have to love gran turismo

[@InfinitySevens]

They added D1GP cars before the actual Drift Trial mode lol

[@QK_62]

rofflewaffle uploading on my birthday??? nah doesn't get any better than this!! ty roffle!!!!

[@FayeHunter]

HABBY BIRBDEY!

[@gabrilibretto1504]

happy birthday, its even my dad's too :)

[@thebroskis6364]

Happy birthday!

[@edokdicht]

​@@gabrilibretto1504happy birthday to the both of you

[@markberkan8317]

Happy Birthday!!

[@nickklavdianos5136]

One of my favourite things to do in GT6 was trying to beat the GT500 championship with a non uprgaded GT300 car.

[@Alkie]

The Spec-II mod for Gran Turismo 4 made by TheAdmiester does a bit to fix that issue. In that mod; many prize cars are changed, this is mainly done to make the game more fresh since most of us nowadays know the prize cars already but, and at least in my case, I ended up in my playthrough with one of these "low tier race cars" has a prize while not having any of these top tier models, and honestly it's my first time driving one of these cars outside of the nitch. I also thought the same you mention on this video and used it in a few tarmac rallies and I'll probably use it in a endurance race once I unlock them. They're fun cars to mess around

[@prrrromotiongiven1075]

It never ceases to be jarring in GT4 how suddenly the progression jerks upwards near the end of the Professional League. You could easily handle everything until the Supercar Festival with lightly modified starter cars, maybe some of the better used cars if you need some help. You finally need to either buy a solid Supercar of your own, win one, or tune up a decent sports car like a Skyline or RX-7 for the Supercar Festival, representing a fairly big shift, then immediately afterwards is the Gran Turismo World Championship, all but requiring an LMP. What? Where did that come from? There should have been about five mandatory championships moving you up from entry-level racers like the Lupo cup car or Motor Sport Elise, then up to JGTC 300 or Touring Cars, then up to JGTC 500 or DTMs, then up to some LM cars like the cover car Ford GT, and finally letting you loose on the LMPs. It's insane to go directly from unmodified road legal supercars to LMPs, and every single player finds them undriveable if they haven't played Gran Turismo late game before.

[@hexgraphica]

Gran Turismos are almost all based on possession to dictate cars progression, but racecars are bought only by collectors or by self made drivers if the car id relatively cheap to run. In Gran Turismo running costs aren't an issue: no car is expensive to maintain or complicated to work on, so you might as well buy the fastest thing you can afford. GT forces the player to go through lower classes and that's nice with road cars, because the player makes them competitive, while race cars on arcade games already are. A new progression model could be either via a driver career like Racedriver Grid, or by introducing true running costs beyond chassis restoration and oil change. And in order to let you drive cool cars before you can own them, they can lend one of the opponent cars to you for a smaller price just for that event

[@TheVaultIsMine]

Always had a soft spot for the slower racing cars in the older titles, from the Spoon S2000 to the SuperAutobacs MR-S and the Wedssport Celica ❤

[@purwantiallan5089]

2008 WedsSport IS350 & 2008 Cusco Impreza GT300 as well.

[@DonForceFeedback]

Ah, just looking back at those shots of Grand Valley Speedway.... I'd throw in 'making their flagship track' as another thing they don't get right! It made my heard sink when i saw the changes for GT7 and its just as annoying when people don't understand WHY it upsets people.

[@Skirakzalus]

I wonder if the underrepresentation of GT300 might have something to do with vehicle variety. GT500 is easy to cover. Get the big 3 in, make some different team liveries for each one and you got good representation already (same with DTM). You can go the extra mile by adding some older versions of those cars or adding one of the oddball opponents, but it's not that necessary. While I don't know how it goes with the real GT300, ingame there's barely ever 2 liveries for the same car, making it a much tougher job to get large numbers. Touring cars might again be a bit easier in that regard.

[@Exponaut_R-01]

It doesn't help that nowadays GT300 is, as far as the non-Japanese cars are concerned, basically just a GT3 car with a specific sticker slapped on the side. But most people are going to prefer you bunch up GT3 as GT3, and leave GT300 as a class as an afterthought (if the other option were GT3 getting less of a cohesive package, I'm sure no one deliberately wants to screw over the existence of GT300, it's just less considered)

[@Skirakzalus]

And then there's Forza Motorsport that just throws any GT class car into their 'Forza GT' division with a few minor up- or downgrades. Though in 7 they only had the GTR from GT500 to begin with, so no chance GT300 would show up in there. And yeah, GT300 is just less considered, most care about the bigger league. It being better known is only amplified by that.

[@miko-mt7lu]

guys wake up rolfwaffle just posted and he's back with style

[@Milehupen]

What do you mean? He uploads regularly every other tuesday.

[@thegamingant3894]

There is also a touring car event in the European events in gt4, the German touring car championship that just use European touring cars.

[@Kreativmoorabbel]

Maybe the solution you suggested could go along with a revamping of racing modifications: As you progress in the career some races might require a certain stage of racing modification, which would not be a single upgrade anymore. Then a player would need to think about either spending this money on a road car or trying to save some by comparing it to a pre-built one

[@klayshotter]

I love racing GR4 purely coz of the variety of cars with the different strengths and weaknesses. From 4WD RWD and FWD cars front, mid and rear engine cars it’s all there. Reminds me of the GrA days from ATCC

[@purwantiallan5089]

The Veyron Gr.4 and GT BY CITROEN GR.4 also had their own strength and weaknesses.

[@albertdiago3526]

Good to have a Roflwaffle retrospective video that goes beyond "here's how all GT games do this particular thing and why GT3 does it best". /s All jokes aside, I am glad you have brought attention to this because it's an issue I've felt had gone without acknowledgement for a long while. I still remember being initially excited to get that BMW 320i Touring Car during my first GT4 playthrough, thinking I had gotten a great car, just to realize that by then it was pretty useless in terms of events and that I already had plenty of faster upgraded road cars in my garage. I think you hit the nail right in the head when you say that the way progression works in GT is usually what makes it so that these cars are so redundant, which is a shame because they are great to race around.

[@SockyNoob]

Most GT6 mods, including my own, fix most of the issues the game has. Only thing bad about GT6 is the fact none of the old PS2 tracks made it in like GT5 has. So you're stuck with what GT6 had plus some custom tracks.

[@Geffect94]

The solution is actually pretty easy: in Tourist Trophy there was a strict separation between road and race bikes and events were dedicated exclusively to race or road bikes. Using limitations like these you could really make use of even very-low-tier race cars (Hyundai Getz?) in early career dedicated events

[@BlackKyurem5]

6:57 I believe the intention of the GT All-Stars events is more of a level rush event. The opponents in Amateur are from the Beginner and Amateur GT World Championships while the opponents in Professional are from the Amateur Dream Car Championship and Professional GT World Championship

[@N7RiZe]

I noticed this when doing custom races in GT4. Loading my own opponent lists that the game did not already have with specific track and scenarios, and the result was very fun.

[@francisfrancis3374]

Ayo that Tourist Trophy soundtrack 18 minutes in drowned me under a tidal wave of nostalgia, holy shit.

[@CaptainRisky21]

8:32 The thumbnail image is taken from Race 9 of the ETCC at Estoril. The yellowed-out car is the BMW 320i that featured in the game, but ironically the Alfa 156 cut from GT3 also appears in front of it

[@revengehunter0184]

I have a few ideas about how it could be solved. One is the lazy path of different games for street and race cars. But I have another idea that I think could be quite effective and fun. As usual, you start with your smaller/more economical/family cars. After a few races/championships, you open up new races: Cup races. You can take your starter car and Cup Modify it to race through the next stage. So on and so forth with your street and race cars. You have options for beginner cars, mid end sports cars, high end sports cars, and super cars. And you have options for cup cars, GT3/300/touring cars, GT500/GT2 and similar, and then GT1 cars. And then you can address the concerns of price. You can buy the racecars outright... Or you can start with a road car, tune it up, and then eventually modify it to be a race car. But Race Modification doesn't have to be one and done... Some cars could have multiple levels. Something low end could have a Cup mod and a GT3 mod, while a mid level sports car has a GT3 and a GT2 mod. A high end sports car could have a GT3, 2, and 1 mod, where a supercar has a GT2 and GT1 mod. Obviously this is all just a base idea, but I think it could go far.

[@richardtickler8555]

id love to see something like the season mode from one of the forzas - multiple classes have their season at the same time - series have different length - series have different tiers. eg FF 1 to 3 and then touring cars regional and world cup. you qualify for higher series either by progression through the league or gaining points in other categories (like the FIA super license) that way you dont have to play the beginner seasons of all categories. this progression still needs some tweaking - you decide which one you want to enter in which year (you cant enter them all due to scheduling issues but you can do them next year) - i also like the system from dirt 4 where teams can hire you as their driver. that way you could be pro in open wheelers while privateering in touring cars this would allow you to switch between cars often or focus on a specific kind of cars (eg a path to the top open wheeler class) there could still be a classic mode in which you unlock events gt4 style, the same events as in the season mode would be offered here

[@alexdamonwrites]

This issue is bolstered by the fact that Gran Turismo games have always been open-ended in terms of progression. Because every event could be completed in any order you desired, the way you progressed was down to what cars you bought and how good you were at license tests. Deconstructing that would lose part of what makes GT so special. It's why GT7's menu book system felt so restrictive, as you were forced to crawl through the event list in a standardised order. But as you mentioned, these low-powered race cars pale in performance to both upgraded road cars and higher-end race cars. Despite your critique of the implementation of Gr. 4 since the launch of GT Sport, I think it handles this specific issue the best. It's actually Gr. 1 that's the bigger problem in the present era, with LMP1 cars, Group C cars and Vision GT-powered race cars all lumped into one category. That's far more unbalanced than the Gr. 4 category.

[@MrKennyWilliams]

Another issue that these low end touring carss have is also how we tend to play GT. I.E. upgrades over new cars. We tend to minmax getting to higher end cars for things like the Professional and Endurance events. And thus Squeezing performance out of starter cars become ideal. I.E. We don't drive Touring cars in GT...because we end up MAKING a glorified Touring car by midpoint. GT7 especially due to it's massive car customization suite.

[@tokyotopp]

Gran Turismo 3 was a tech demo 4:50 for the ps2 hence the lack of content. Forza Motorsport 5 was the same way

[@Cmin_Zaps]

I think they keep getting the lower end race cars only for the sake to say "Hey we have every class existing". Either that or they are using them as more Powerful NFS like builds, which is useless now with the difference that race cars and road cars have in GT now.

[@dct124]

Have you heard of Rob Wilson? He's an F1 driver coach. He uses a low budget FWD car to make F1 champion drivers faster. A gamers mindset isn't on the peak of racing, but enjoyment.

[@TomOGorman]

I’ve always noticed this!!! I’m such a touring car fan and always wanted more emphasis on these types of cars.

[@purwantiallan5089]

And the Gr.4 and 3 cars on GT7.

[@daStig177]

I imagine running them in IMSA will do that to you hehe

[@PUDRETE919]

I'm a dragon when it comes to video games and irl, I LOVE TO HOARD STUFF, so for me playing GT was always about building the biggest garage with the most versatile cars in it (except for 1 playthrough in which I bought ever Fiat 500 I came across in GT4; had 75 at the end), so racing for me was always about finding the quickest way to make money, one of the reasons GT4 is my most beloved game as the special missions let you amass wealth super quickly and I could buy any and all cars in the used car dealership to my hearts content; I played GT5 & 6 but I barely any recollection while I can vividly imagine GT4, I also remember being extreme disappointed when I realized in GT5 that redoing the same race paid out less and gave no reward cars, I almost stopped playing then, at like 2hrs in

[@HELLRAISER02]

Wont lie, touring cars and GT cars are some of my favorite visually and conceptually,cuz theyre kinda like boss versions of normal cars but they usually get less upgrades to use, thats my main notice before this vid

[@commercial17]

What Happened to City Tracks after GT6 (in GT Sport and GT7 There are no City Tracks Unfortunately) I wonder what happened?

[@billyoswaritpookkanasut4316]

I guess detail development may delay the dev process

[@purwantiallan5089]

Gran Turismo 6 rectified some of the mistakes from Gran Turismo 5 and 4 in terms of opponents from specific race cars that appeared in some events.

[@ryobibattery]

Anything after 4

[@Naylz_93]

an interesting take on involving these cars in the progression of the game, would be to tie in the progression to licenses. events using low/mid/high powered road cars take you from having no license to the national A license. then using the same hierachy for race cars, using the new group system, gr.4- ib license. gr.3- ia, and gr1/gr.x only usable in events with the special license. could even push the license system to be linked to career progression, only allowing the next level of license be unlockable after completeing a set number of events in a lower tier, in a similar theory of how racing works in the real world. having to work through lower catergories of racing to make it to the big leagues

[@KTR_ProrataEevee]

This issue i somewhat noticed in gt4 when trying to find a car for the gt world series in that game. I first tried the falcon supercar (which didn't have enough downforce), so then tried the clk (until i saw its tire life) until finally picking the 88c-v to beat that championship (and questioning why the gt500 cars were even useful when i could use a prototype instead)

[@SebrystianVettel]

babe wake up, roflwaffle just upload a new video

[@The_red_nick07]

Why is there always a comment like that 😂

[@Sammael66685]

GT6 indeed had quite the good stuff in, but it was clearly overlooked and overwhelmed by the bad stuff which, was quite present in to say the least.

[@SockyNoob]

GT300 cars are actually quite OP in vanilla GT6 tbh. Some of the standard model GT300s like the RAZO Silvia are extremely affordable and able to be bought early on. And their PP ratings are much lower than they should reasonably be, so you can enter events with lower PP levels and absolutely dominate with a minimal decrease in power usually. And being SuperGT cars, they have a ton of grip. Also the former Race Modified cars from GT5 are full blown purchasable race cars in GT6, usually for only 100,000 more credits than the road car. Some of them, like the CR-Z race car, offer a crap ton of performance for their PP rating as well, meaning they're also excellent choices for most of the game. So really GT6 might be the one game in the series that the lower end race cars legit have a purpose and can be dominant. GT2 is the only other game where these cars even make any sense to use, mostly because they can be cheap or won easily as prize cars. The Daishin Silvia is a great example of this. Easily winnable, low enough power to enter most races, etc. Only downside of GT2 is that race cars can't have power upgraded, even if the racing version is the same amount of power as the road car. Even the GT2 A-Spec mod has this issue!

[@richardtickler8555]

i come to the same conclusion everytime something about gran turismo is discussed: the people who make the game dont play games

[@AndrewGeierMelons]

The GT5 BMW 320i was my vote for the best handling car (not the grippiest, but the most fun to drive) because it rewarded a smooth driving style with lap time without instantly causing a spin if you went too aggressive, the way some other cars would force you to spin if you drove too aggressively. The BMW 320i Touring car is the closest approximation of the myriad real life race cars I have raced. By far and away, my favourite real life race car so far is the Ferrari 458 Challenge Evo II. That car is everything I want from a race car, with none of the major downsides like a finicky transmission with an annoying clutch, or, having to face your helmet visor down and fogging up like a Radical SR3 RSX. The Radical also isn't exciting because it has far too much grip and not enough power. By contrast, the race car that I built myself, a heavily modified 2003 Honda Civic EP3 race car is nearly stock in terms of function - it could sit in stop and go traffic and not even be uncomfortable. It has reasonable power but would be far slower than GT300 cars. Its power to weight ratio puts it in the same class as the 320i Touring Car, Roadster Touring Car, and Civic Touring Car in the Gran Turismo games, but it is ridiculously fun to throw around on tracks with 40, 50, maybe 60 cars. A proper TC-A, TCR, GT4, and GT3 multiclass race in Gran Turismo 8 would be amazing fun. The TC-A class is not super popular in real life but it uses Hyundai Veloster Turbo, Subaru BRZ, etc.; cars which are around 200 bhp, on semi-slick tires, with minimal downforce. TCR steps up power to approximately GT4 levels, mild aero, full slicks. GT4 gives ~360-430 bhp, in cars that are heavier, with a reasonable aero package... This would be the dream, for me. Give us a race with multiple classes of race car so that it feels chaotic with always having traffic.

[@mega2codnoob]

I am currently playing gt4 on an emulator trying to get all the achievements, and then I have to use a lot of different cars. I realized then that there are sooo many cars that you wont ever use in the game, which is a shame because many of them are really nice.

[@kingjimsixsix5]

I spent many an hour playing gt sport, but despite this my garage had lots of cars I had never even tried, unless you have reason to do so, particularly if you have made cool liverys and tuned certain cars to your liking there is little reason to try others. Perhaps if gt introduced a new car bonus system for distance driven, that your daily bonus would be tied to using a new car.

[@millennialchicken]

I really wish the GT300's had more uses in GT. No racing class has more wonderous mix than the 90's-00's GT300.

[@ittylink]

So event planning needs much more attention, just have to hope they do.

[@so2fast4u2]

From gt5 on we made proper lobys with rules to enforce proper class races with points awarded and a grand prize. Same for drifting and evry class imaginable.

[@SupaFry99]

Maybe they could do more to separate road and racing car events, with their own events and progression. Half the career could be starting with economy cars and working up to road legal super cars. The other half with racing cars, start with MX5 cup and work your way up to the LMP1 or equivalent, going through all the lower power stuff.

[@RexcorJ]

It's funny. It dawned on me that they've never quite reached the definitive vision for GT (hehe) that Kaz might have wanted for the players. Some games have the very best version of certain features or experiences over others due to the various changes in each title. Makes me wonder if Kaz was ever satisfied with anything in earlier titles.

[@GeorgeTsiros]

I expected you'd talk about the staggered/quantized changes in inclination.

[@Therubbersluggchannel]

"Never get right" penalties

[@TDL5584]

Me personally I'd overhall the group system. So GT300 is in their own group GT500 in their own, actual GT3 cars on their own etc etc

[@YoSuey]

I'm definitely guilty of using the yellow rx7 and celica. Tigra rally was broken too!

[@elolafino3842]

I frankly just love to own the touring cars in GT6. And I tune the shit out of them to make them compete against tougher opponents.

[@apollonmoropoulos6900]

bring TOCA series back

[@purwantiallan5089]

True. The PS1 TOCA games are still underrated hidden gems.😢

[@MadisonSquareGardendidJFK]

@@purwantiallan5089 lol i still have it on my pc

[@BillehBobJoe]

I will say i loved the mr2 race car in gt 3

[@-PVL93-]

I think by now it's become clear the series needs a new set of eyes overseeing the project. Yes, Yamauchi deserves all the praise for getting Gran Turismo off the ground and keeping the franchise going for this long without fucking it up too much unlike some of the other competitors in the genre, however between GT6 being a glorified roster update, Sport shifting away into the world of online racing, and now GT7 failing to provide a good experience for either those who love driving in multiplayer or those who enjoy the traditional campaign progression, Gran Turismo is in need of a new leadership All of the missteps committed in the last 10 years as well as outright weird and bad designs decisions just scream about it I have zero trust in GT8 now unless Kaz steps down

[@zacariascisneros6399]

Asking for that is like asking for a NEW Metal Gear without Hideo Kojima or a new The Last of Us without Neil Druckmann. It wouldn't be the same.

[@-PVL93-]

@@zacariascisneros6399 Last of Us without Druckmann would br a blessing after what he had done to TLOU2 And Konami aren't interested in maing another metal gear anyway, they'll prolly just remaster and remake the old stuff

[@il-ma.le.]

Has been written somewhere on OverTake(once named RaceDepartment) that between GT3 and GT4 on Assetto Corsa Competizione that many race GT3s simply because they can. It's the higher tier machinery, it's the most recognizable and many other excuses. Category experts last time I heard were in 125cc and 250cc classes of the old Grand Prix Motorcycle Racing(now MotoGP). There has to be a point to be made about the fact that these can be brushed off, gratuitiously, as lesser racing cars by more casual motorsports enjoyers, as a child I might easily have been one of them, but at the moment I can't put a thing togheter to prove said point.

[@DerpSherman]

Is weird to say that the Class and Series system on the Forza franchise works (kind of) on this aspect. While the Class system has been in the franchise for longer with a hidden list for some events (like the LMP,GT1 or GT500 purpose events and multi class events in the Forza 3 and 4),the Series system added another filter that helped to give low end racecars more clear series (that thankfully weren't affected by the mess of the homologation system they added during the Xbox One era). Of course,the series system has to be properly curated, something that Turn 10 sometimes..mess with, while some series make sense in the way they mix regulations that are close, like Forza Touring ( with BTCC and WTCC,with WTCC now replaced with TCR),on the other end of the spectrum being something like Forza GT,that at it's peak (I think they changed it some months ago, splitting the series in smaller ones) held a really odd list of racing regulations together: GTE,GT3,GT2(the modern one),GT4,V8 Supercars,GTLM,Ferrari Challenge, Lamborghini Super Trofeo,Trans-Am,a FWD Touring TT (the only FWD) and even the Lamborghini Essenza SCV12,with a SuperGT GT-R from Forza Motorsport 7 appearing some times on the banner for multiplayer, but not making the cut (yet). Back to low end racecars, giving them their little time at the spotlight should be part of the career ladder,Racedriver:GRID did this right, with the low end touring cars being a proper school while getting money for the GTs or during the waiting for LeMans.

[@NurburgringMascotThirstA-is6gl]

Oh, I have thought about it. Way too much, in fact. To the point of making a big Google Doc categorising the racecars from the older games using the Gt Sport/7 "group" system. It's not an ideal system and more of a "how do racing series work in the world of these games" headcanon than something actually useful to play the games, but makes more sense than how the games organise cars themselves.

[@tho_tho]

I'd argue there's something more important that GT never gets right, rolling starts. It's bad enough you always start last without qualifying (if it even is available for that event), but rolling starts being done in such a borked way can really screw you over for doing nothing wrong. Normally, cars all accelerate at the same time, usually when first or last car crosses the starting line, but in GT, whoever crosses the line can start accelerating, screwing over whoever is in the back, because it leads to huge gaps. This is especially annoying in multiplayer, especially in cases like pre-rebalance GT7 where you'd get over a second of gap, essentially just out of slipstream range, between each car right away, making for very boring racing.

[@BurningmonkeyGTR]

There's an older GT300 RX-7 listed in the datamines for GT7, if and when we get it I'd guess it'll go in Gr.4 given that the NSX GT500 and GT-R GT500 of similar year are Gr.3. I'd guess they'll have a cutoff of 2005, Super GT cars from '05 on being Gr.2 for GT500 and Gr.3 for GT300 and JGTC machinery stepping down one class to Gr.3 and Gr.4 respectively

[@dietgilroy]

one solution i’d have is to make it so you have to build the touring cars from road cars

[@Ledout-c3y]

I have a problem with the sense of speed on gt games...it feels like a drag on regular cars. I feel more sense of speed on my cheap car in real life even at 40 mph

[@betrion7]

Try it with PSVR2

[@jackarmstrong7285]

One thing I have never liked about the GT games is how weird the combination of race cars is. Even when they have a full grid of period correct cars from one class they still just throw many many classes and eras worth of race cars into one silly clump. Always was frustrating to me as a racing fan looking to relive what I’ve seen on TV and in historical footage

[@caifabe8050]

i am a simple man, i see new roflwaffle upload, i clicks it

[@vinching926]

It's even more interesting that PD introduce some niche race cars without making their respective racing series, even put them into the roster of GT leagues, things like mm-R, Beetle RSi, Renault Trophy cars could be the lucky one but IS200 GT-1 isn't, you think it's something like Altezza LM but it's the only car from Korean GT series and having really modest specs that even 550PP World Touring is too much

[@TheAdmiester]

I think the IS200 GT-1 was a bit of an afterthought, being dropped into the Korean version after the main design of the game was already finalised, so it makes sense to me that they didn't consider making it an event

[@bigportal4705]

i think arcade mode could assist in these cars usage, think GT3s mode where you unlocked faster and faster cars for each class by beating the tracks (although 3 like you said has like 2 gt300s and you have faster race cars unlocked from the start anyways) obviously not a full solution to the problem but it could help it if you started out with slower race cars and had to use them to unlock faster ones

[@erwanleon6054]

i'd say that what we need now is a more detailed group system Gr. 2, 3, 4 are too wide when you look at the entries. I won't mind if a group has 3 or 4 cars only, if these cars are relevant. For exemple, putting GT500 from 2010 and 2020 together makes no sense, the spec are really different. Same in Gr. 4. We should have group like Gr.4-GT, Gr.4-touring, Gr.4-super_touring, and same for upper classes like GT1, LMP non hybrid, hybrid etc, Gr.C cars...

[@JOHANNESwhoelse]

This video directly influenced the Spec II mod's latest update. Five days after upload, The GT Allstars championship and the Clubman League have been altered to fit lower- to mid-tier Race cars better into GT mode. Yet still I'm waiting for an Australian Super Saloon championship to give the FPVs and Holdens some use!

[@TheAdmiester]

The idea of an Australian championship has been raised before and I do like the idea, I was just hesitant initially because none of GT4's tracks make sense for it. If that's not something people care too much about then I'll definitely add it at some point because I do quite like GT4's AU selection.

[@JOHANNESwhoelse]

@@TheAdmiester Oh hello there, Admiester! The selection of fitting tracks is a tricky subject indeed. My suggestion would be tracks, where Holden and/or Ford banners are at trackside (Hong Kong for example), plus Trial Mountain, as it's the closest we have to Bathurst. El Capitán would be another candidate on that front, but i feel like El Capitán is already used enough in GT Mode. These are just my two cents. You're doing great work, man!

[@TheAdmiester]

@@JOHANNESwhoelse Good suggestions, perhaps instead of El Capitan I can chuck in some other GT track that goes fairly unused just for fun. Will look into it for future

[@richardhammock2829]

The way the handle the group system in GTS/7 is quite egregious in Sport mode due to BoP. In gr4, because there's different drivetrains, one drivetrain (like 4wds) are inherently faster than others. The grouping system in general is too abstract imo. I know each group isn't necessarily meant to be their equivalent category in real life, (gr3 isn't necessarily modeling GT3) and they probably have a certain reference pace for them, but some cars, especially the older ones fall into a grey area between each group, like the TS020 in Gr2 when it technically is a Gr1. For some cars like these they have to be massively detuned to even match cars in their category, and generally the older cars are almost not competitive in races unless the track allows them. If for example, we had a sport mode race in gr1 in which only group cs were allowed, that's fine, but when you have all gr1s available for a race, then you expect all of them to be competitive to some degree. I think PD has to make subcategories within the groups to solve this somewhat

[@seebarry4068]

Best were the second one and the PS3 demo, on the mountain. That demo was epic, I was still playing that at the end of my PS3 ownership.

[@kayto101racer]

If PD actually added in a wider range of race cars. We probably wouldn't be in this situation. I'd love for TCR cars to be in the game. A proper dedicated touring car class is needed

[@ipolodesign]

Gran turismo should make championships feel like such, if the race is on sundays then you should spend the rest of the week doing something else, and then race the championship, get you more into it like a carreer mode from an F1 game the sunday cup should be race on sunday it would be awesome to register to some races and see them pop up as the date for the race approaches, having to race other events in the meanwhile, having your car being modified take days so you can't put 14 upgrades in a day to beat one specific race it has so much room for improvement beyond doing laps inside a circuit

[@ZX3000GT1]

This reminds me of how Enthusia handled the events, and how it has an event calendar with 1 set race always happening in a week and other smaller random races based on the car you're using. It's not a perfect game, but man Enthusia is underrated, no other racing games are quite like it.

[@STRIDER_503]

When you have a racing game with thousands of cars but couldn't be bothered to design races for every single one of them... you get Gran Turismo. Dedication on the surface, shallow & lazy on the inside.

[@enjoylife6374]

you nailed it with this one

[@LimitPro1]

Funny because I did use the GT500 cars and the touring cars in GT

[@logoncal3001]

Spec II fixes slightly the issue but GT4's roster is so absurd its still not enough

[@billyoswaritpookkanasut4316]

GT2 was far better

[@swinny5797]

Theres something to be said as well in how multiple racing game franchises have emulated and copied real life racing. As it stands now, Super Touring had its hey day approaching 30 years ago. Current spec super touring style racing in the form of TCR, Brazilian Stock cars, BTCC NGTC spec cars etc are just not as popular for racing fans as GT3/GT4 has become so ubiquitous in so many series. See the DTM simply become a German GT3 championship instead of the pinnacle of Touring Car racing, which is because people don't buy Saloon/Sedan/Estate cars anymore and the scourge of the crossover SUV has murdered that so effectively. Therefore in modern games, not just Gran Turismo but pretty much every major racing game title, its GT3 that are the stars of the show with other Open Wheel or LMP type cars featuring. Super Touring is just forgotten about. Its an afterthought in most games. Take Project cars for example, so many different categories for various GT cars and just 3 ST classes. Group A, Clio cup cars and TC, which was its own hodge podge of stuff. Other games like ACC could really benefit from having a TCR class in it but the devs appear to have 0 intention of even acknowledging its existence in favour of GT3, GT4 and other sports car one make series'. So sadly this is something I think we are going to continue to see for a long time in modern racing games is a definite favour towards sports cars and sports car classes and a neglect in touring cars and super touring class.

[@storyexe243]

I remember always doing the all japan gt championship with a Subaru Touring Car and struggling in the event before switching to the CUSCO and somehow doing even worse before discovering the wonderful world of the JGTC and the class differences so I was indirectly doing an actual JGTC race. If only Subaru made a GT500 car

[@warreng675]

And gives you a worse car than the first one, the GT Championship

[@johnsyeats2044]

I mentioned on one of your previous videos something I thought would help with being creative with your car choices in GT7 - high capacity racing fuel cells in the tuning shop. WTC700 races are the prime example, as while there are dozens of cars of all sorts that you can make competitive in terms of pace, you can never compete with the Gr.4 cars in terms of fuel capacity/mileage. As far as having more events for lower end race cars? That's easy, they just need to add more events!

[@ShiningJudgment666]

You can if you can outpower them but also not have to stop super frequently. If you can get down to 1-2 stops in the main WTC 700 grind event and outpace the field, you basically win. The Honda NSX GT500 car (the 2000 version) is just amazing for it (only have to make 2 stops on Fuel map 2, great car all round even on Racing Hards). That being said, it does present that issue because why limit yourself to a weaker Gr.4 car with you can run a car that you don't have to do a lot to, in order to maker the 700pp cut.

[@billyoswaritpookkanasut4316]

this similar to what i asked in Patreon good stuff

[@PippaPeerless]

I feel like the price point of Gr.4/GT4 cars is kinda in-line with the real world. A cheap road car might cost me about about 1% of what a GT4 car would cost. As far as top speed though, they would both be fairly similar.

[@ilive2drive651]

I am replaying GT4 Spec II mod right now..its more challenging I think than GT7 but like all GT games what I hate is never knowing if Im loosing because of my car not being upgraded or because of skill issue....some events I get 1st in one try and then on another track in the same event and same car Im dead last every time and 15 seconds behind the leader after 3 laps,.. so I honestly never know what Im supposed to be doing...

[@BlackKyurem5]

I think the GT1 cars have the same problem. There is a gap between GT500 and Prototype racers that you just skip GT1 racers all together as they just serve as slower opponents in the races with Prototype racers. And this never gets rectified. GT5 and GT6 still iust pairs them with the Prototypes so they are the slower opponents you ignore and GT7 puts them in Gr. 2 but except for the GT-One at Le Mans specifically they are much slower than the GT500s in the WTC 900, not to mention much more expensive

[@danericardo6148]

I've never liked that PD put mostly FWD touring cars into Group 4 together with all the GT4-like cars, which are in most cases RWD. Having a seperate TC class like Project CARS 2 would be much more interesting

[@TouringCarsAndStuff]

Someone needs to make an official Super GT game with classic cars, it’s good for the fans or Gran Turismo could add a game mode for different racing series

[@raymondkoledoye9941]

I wish I had GT7 on ps4 console so I can play more and modified cars and race at the race track.

[@ElShogoso]

At least GT4 spec ii added some events for those cars

[@SieTeppischfresser]

These were always my favorite cars in GT. As a little kid, they were just so much fun compared to the super fast cars.