Sonarworks SoundID Reference | Are your mixes doomed from the start?

Dealing with room acoustics is a challenge, especially in small home studios. I take a look at SoundID Reference, the new room correction software from Sonarworks (previously Reference 4).
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[@Sesaon3]

Hi Jon. I'm currently on a Masters Degree course in Music Production and one of my tutors is a very well known Nashville mixer. He was really pleased with the recent mastered mixes I sent and said they sounded great. This confirmation reinforced feedback from others that my music translates. I use Reference 4 and my last check is on HD600s. My room is treated and the correction software adds the final touch.

[@samburtyboy]

I did this the other day but using the Neumann MA-1 in combo with their sub and main monitors. Hugely improved and like you I got bass back in the listening position!

[@bossistheboss6996]

Just had the box from sonarworks arrive today, looking forward to testing it. Enjoyed the video Thankyou 👍🏻

[@JonMeyer]

I hope it works out for you!

[@kevinlentz7604]

Hi Jon great video,I spent a lot time with your acoustic friend ,on fixing my Studio,everybody seems to have problems around the 100 mark pretty normal for small rooms

[@KevKruz]

Nice vid. One thing about the "Translation Check" feature that I got wrong myself and many people also do...the Car settings approximate the "Boominess" or "Harshness" in 3 different vehicle types. This particular feature isn't meant to tell you how your whole mix will sound in a car.

[@lorenzo4708]

Great video Jon! Thanks for reminding me to use this again. Was feeling down because I wasn't getting a mix right and remembered my room has a +8dB peak on 125Hz. Hahahaha I wonder why you have so little low end... Maybe speaker positioning/distance from the wall is causing some cancellation? I bet Jesco would have the answer...

[@stevedaycreative]

Great vid. I’m just about to go through this in a triangular (😳) loft space. I’ve managed to tame the bass with acoustic foam etc, but hoping the Ref 4 I still own will tuck in the rest…

[@haptik_musik]

Love your Content.Thanks mate!

[@katrinaallikas2028]

Great stuff 🔥

[@azbassclarinet]

Thank you for your video ! I did treatment on my room using REW and a Dayton mic for the measurements. As I have been using sonarworks for headphones for a while now I decided to give the final touch with the monitor version. Using the Dayton (calibrated) mic the result is rather bright and the low end is kind of crushed… I have read of people having the exact same problem with this mic … I think I should get the sonarworks mic and hope for a better result

[@musicbydavidsmith]

I have a strangely shaped studio (an attic with a staircase directly behind me and a slanted ceiling) so I figured the acoustics would be terrible, but after doing the test I just didn’t trust the results. You can slide from 0% to 100% correction within the software somewhere while music is playing and the difference didn’t strike me as “better”, nor did it strike me as “worse”. So I was kinda stuck and didn’t feel like $300 was justified, so I sent the mic and software back for a refund - which took a while going to Riga! I guess I really hoped I would notice a huge difference and perhaps two things are apparent: One, my ears can’t notice the difference so it’s wasted on me, or two, my room for whatever strange reason is well enough balanced. So I decided to spend the time on writing better music and let the rest take care of itself.

[@JonMeyer]

It's so easy to get sidetracked by the pursuit of "perfect" acoustics. One thing we know for sure is that many talented composers have written incredible music in sub par studios. All we can do is make the best choices with the resources we have and then focus on what really matters.

[@megalodon1726]

When you're mixing or mastering, it's not about the correction making the music sound better, it's about making it sound more accurate so you don't overcompensate the highs or lows into the final mix.

[@jasonblizzardmusic]

Anyone have the .cal file for the DBX Mic he used? I have the same mic but not sure if the file I found online is the right one 🙏

[@vidicsferenc182]

You don't have a calibration file for your mic ? then its useless. Every mic has its own calibration file because the mics vary so much that they have files for each microphone produced. I highly recommend buying the sonarworks mic (even they need their file) or a mic with a calibration file designed for the mic you are actually holding.

[@mircovonborstel6674]

Hey:) Ypu should move your Speakers slightly more to the center so they are more distant to the sidewalls. I have a small room too and suffered from the same problem in low end. After moving the speakers 10cm away from the sidewalls the bass is flat 😊 I hope that helps. Have a good one

[@lazorkophotography]

I definitely appreciate the idea of function taking some priority over sound. It doesn’t matter if the room sounds perfect if it’s a pain to get anything done. For people with a standard 10ftx10ft bedroom studio, would you recommend bass traps in the corners as the first step in sound treatment?

[@JonMeyer]

start here...kzbin.info/www/bejne/ep_LlamPq5Wmepo

[@andrewgoodwincomposer]

Didn’t realize they had updated last reference 4, been using it for years

[@brianstecklermusic]

That's crazy how your curve drops off at 100Hz in your listening zone. Might be an interesting experiment to re-shoot it back another 2 or 3 feet to see if it's still happening. I have those same Twin6s, and the speakers don't drop off like that unless you've got a sub with a crossover in line and turned down. My room is flat within +/- 3dB and I still think Sonarworks makes a significant improvement. And once I got Slate's VSX headphones, I've been able to confirm it... my room sounds a lot like the Archon room in VSX which is really flat and tight. I have the Focal Sub6 that matches the Twins, and it was shocking how much it helped flatten out the low end in this room once I got it in the right place.

[@yamansitar6153]

Hi , iv got sonarworks ,I have a question , I have a SSL6 mixing desk which will be in my mixing chain , when I’m setting up my speakers to sonarworks to calibrate should I plug my mic in to the mixing desk then from the desks to the soundcard. Or should I plug the mic straight into the sound card or interface ,thanks

[@mbaudio2574]

Hey Jon, indeed you are a great influencer, especially at 3:33 😄Seriously, I've used Sonarworks for a few years with my JBL LSR305 in a semi treated room and it definately helps in creating better mixes. Actually, this product is so good that I'm wondering whether upgrading my monitors would be worthwhile. I've been considering buying the Focal Solo6 Be or the Twins but that's quite a big investment for a semi treated room. I'd appreciate your thoughts. Cheers!

[@UmaRecordings]

What if I do the test with a sub on my system? Does that cause issues?

[@Shellda]

Dang! So it wasn’t wii fit. Haha. I never knew how much goes into sound design/room acoustics. Super educational. Thanks for making this.

[@JonMeyer]

Thanks for watching. Yea, achieving adequate acoustics in our studios is a real challenge.

[@butterblood]

Is it ok to use this software along with a subwoofer?

[@blebiru]

Hi Jon! I find your videos very helpful and thank you for that. I have a question, a thing that remains a mystery to me. I know my room has problems specially with low end, but why is this much more apparent when I'm mixing in Reaper than when I'm listening to music on Spotify etc...? One general answer could be that released tunes are obviousy mastered, but still, shouldn't my room respond to any sound in the same way? After all, the mastered tracks I hear on Spotify were not fixed depending on my room setup. So why is it that my room responds to my music differently...? I don't know, maybe it's a stupid question, but thought you might have some insight to this. Thanks a lot!

[@pilotgfx]

thats such a cosy studio you got there ser

[@JonMeyer]

Thanks!

[@tanukibrahma]

Are use sonar works ID reference and I think it helps a lot

[@spadogs]

Have to wait until they have Multi-channel support. Seems this has been in the works, for a long time.

[@matsumoku]

Guess what - it's your lucky day :D Sonarworks released multichannel support earlier today, just a few hours ago!

[@trubadyr99]

You haven't said anything about connectivity. I understand that the mic is connected to a PC with this application running to measure the speakers. But what device is making the actual correction automatically based on these measurements? I understand how it does so with Genelecs one and Genelec's software, but I don't get it in this case.

[@JonMeyer]

The SoundId reference plugin runs either on your system audio or on the master channel of your DAW.

[@SEID_blackmetal]

Hey! Great video. I only have experience with Sound ID for headphones. But basically your own body is probably tainting your calibration. You always stand behind your calibration mic blocking reflections from behind. So in my understanding you have 37 people in your room, compared to when your butt is at listening position. Just a thought.

[@donepearce]

Don't use a plugin to a DAW. Mistakes are inevitable. Just use the standalone programme in the pc that drives your room audio. That is the correct place for it. Oh, and do get a sub. Sonarworks does a fantastic job of integrating it so you don't know it is there.

[@dab7963]

I wanted to like it. I purchased a very expensive EQ and a Neve MBP so I did a profile and my sub woofer was +15 dB so I turned it down and did a second profile and it was +6 dB and you should use the mic they sent you because they profiled that mic to work with the software. Once I did the second profile turning it on and off I did hear a small change but it was not worth turning down my sub so low. I think you are better just learning the sound of your speakers. I gave up on this software and doing a major project right now and decided not to use it.

[@SuperEgo19]

Why does Sonarworks decrease the volume of the mix when it’s applied?

[@JonMeyer]

to protect your speakers in case the correction EQ is boosting specific frequencies. You can adjust the amount or turn it off.

[@felipousismix]

Sonarworks uses a branded Behringer ECM 8000, which is a good measurement microphone.

[@JonMeyer]

Good to know. Thank you!

[@katrinaallikas2028]

not really :) we probably order them from the same manufacturer but our measurement mics are individually calibrated and comes with its own calibration profile to ensure the utmost accuracy for you

[@JonMeyer]

@@katrinaallikas2028 I hope to make some acoustic treatment upgrades in the near future. Will be sure to pick up a proper mic before my next measurement.

[@passje8007]

@@katrinaallikas2028not probably 😊. Rebrand

[@Bass_Nomad.]

for balancing monitor speakers it's probably very good work, but if you intend to get this for mixing on headphones you should save yourself the money. Get a decent pair of headphones and learn how reference tracks sound on them.

[@TheJonHolstein]

Do all your critical listening on headphones is what people in the industry would say, if they were in touch with the consumers. 90% or so of all critical listening by the consumers will be on headphones. People will use phone speakers, TV speakers, laptop/tablet speakers, portable bluetooth speakers (without even support for higher resolution bluetooth audio), yes, that is how we can expect the majority of plurality of listening to happen, but that is not how people that are interested in listening typically listen, the do so mostly on headphones. Headphones are inexpensive and offer great performance, in general. Decent speaker system, that also has to be put in the context of the room acoustics, is a very expensive hobby, and many who buy expensive speakers do very little if anything to deal with the acoustics of the room, many buy expensive cables rather than deal with the acoustics. Adopting mixes/masters for speakers is a sign of being completely out of touch with consumers. For headphones; Bass below 140Hz should not be panned, unless for creative purposes, as our hearing can't hear direction of low frequencies. Bass response in headphones that can produce low end, is generally better than in rooms, as it stays more controlled, as bass issues is the most common apparent issue in a room. The issue with headphones though is that they can't replicate the physical sensation of bass in the body. Also because most headphones offer ok bass response, there is no need to use eq bump or saturation that results in overtones so the bass can be heard, thereby leaving more room in the mix, but that is also true when it comes to good speakers, so that is mostly an issue for people doing mixes for crappy speakers. Stereo reverbs can't have distinct left and right reflections, as with our ears in a room we will hear both the left and right sound, but in headphones it will come off as distinct left an right panned sound, very unnatural. The stereo image will be distorted because the lack of left and right crossover in hearing. But this part will also heavily depend on the listeners position in relation to speakers, so that has always been an issue when it comes to panning in the stereofield. Headphones does instead offer a better solution here, as there is much less difference in where the sound appears to come from with different headphones as with different speakers in different rooms, with different listening positions. One of the main reason mixing and mastering engineers are reluctant to move over to headphone as the reference, is based on the comfort of not having to wear headphones for long sessions. When reaching across a mixing desk, or reaching for that hardware unit, the engineer will shift their position in relation to speakers, and will not be hearing the exact frequency response as they did before, and not the same soundfield, yet they do make decision in that position on the balance of the sound (in the mix, the saturation, the compression and so on), headphones removes this issue. Some pretend that with speakers everyone in the room can hear the same thing... Well they can't, as only one person at maximum can be in the sweet-spot. A much better choice is to have a set of the same headphones (people will still due to hearing and psycho acoustics hear differently), but at least their ears will be fed the same signal, unlike when cramming people in to a room listening to speakers. It is possible to set it up, with talkback mic's if you want to have to avoid having to remove the headphones to listen to someone's feedback. If they tell you not to do critical listening on headphones, just ignore them, as it is better to ignore people in the industry that does not care about consumers, rather than listen to people in the industry and ignore consumers. One could make some arguments for film composers as their music will be heard through speakers, when presented the way the film is designed to be experienced. However cinemas don't use nearfield monitors. Given how badly the people in the industry understands how to mix for the audience, not only using the wrong type of speaker set-up, but also not understanding how for someone that haven't heard the dialogue over and over how much harder it is to hear what is being said in the end mix, well they are hardly people one should place ones trust in, for accurate advices. One could possibly argue that certain pairs of headphones don't translate to the typical headphone. Open back headphones tend to have less bass response, meaning that the bass can be owerpowering or muddy up the mix on closed back headphones and in ear headphons. There are also headphones that because they don't offer good enough seal against the ear will not offer a good bass response, but those should not be a reference, many of them are really cheap, but some do cost so much that one would expect better, but it is easier to get people to understand that their headphones aren't good, than to make mixes that translates perfectly for every listening situation. In theory, solutions like Dolby Atmos could offer a way to translate speaker mixes to headphones, but currently it doesn't, as the format isn't developed and such, and currently isn't able to convincingly translate a atmos speaker stereo mix even to headphones. DTS X also had the brilliant feature of dialogue level adjustment, but it wasn't mandatory, but that could have helped a lot to deal with actually making the dialogue audible... but as long as there isn't a version of it for live TV and a low bandwidth solution for streaming, as well as having made it mandatory, it will not help to deal with the issues of the industry. I suggest use heaphones for all critical listening, mixing and mastering, but have a couple of typical headphones and compare. Use the speakers in the rooom as a way to test if for other environments. And skip all the low end speaker tests, as in order to make music sound good on them, you will have to compromise. People can get a decent pair of headphones, if they really want to enjoy music, if they aren't willing to do that, well then they are not a very picky audience and will probably be fine with the mix sounding less then ideal.

[@tkelong3569]

Sure it can be helpful if used properly but it’s not a necessity for everyone. Not everyone’s brain is the same nor their hearing, so the perception of what’s being heard when a record is playing varies. Some will benefit from this type tool more than others. It’s like singing lessons. Every vocalist could benefit from the instruction of a great vocal coach, but certain individuals nEEd the instruction of a great vocal coach.

[@vivianpaton5408]

Add a sub?

[@kablah19]

I would never trust that software’s distance measurements.. it’s never accurate compared to a tape measure..

[@karlisstenders4705]

You can fine tune the measured distance in Sonarworks during that step

[@kablah19]

@@karlisstenders4705 I’m fully aware of that… I was criticizing him trusting the measurements that the software gave him. I thought that was obvious, but I guess not.

[@Ffhh391]

Hahaha shit in every corner... Dude it is your music and talent. Nothing with room, speakers, gears

[@jetphone1974]

Stop moaning about your room man. 90% of the world have far more challenging dimensions than yours. 20 feet? FMD.