Songs with Confusing Intros

[@DavidBennettPiano]

❗ EXTRA DISCUSSION: I'm finding it really interesting that many of you hear "All Along The Watchtower" as having a three eighth note anacrusis, not a two eighth note anacrusis (in other words, it not having a confusing intro!). It doesn't matter what I do, when I count along with that intro, I always latch onto the first chord change as the downbeat (as described in the video). I definitely think it's the placement of the chord changes that's dictating the downbeat for me, but it's amazing that other people can hear it another way! People seem quite split on this one. For example, when you look at the sheet music available for it on MusicNotes, some show it my way, and some show it the other way! www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtd.asp?ppn=MN0074354 As always, it seems, no matter how much you learn about music, it never gets any less mysterious! 😄

[@ErikNonIdle]

I was going to mention that. I hear it as being and-four-and-one-and-two.

[@sarahtonin4649]

I'll just paraphrase what I said before, that these things are not mysterious if you think about the likelihood that The Beatles, or Jimi Hendrix, or Led Zeppelin, or others composed complex, multi-metered intros. I think that is very unlikely, not because they wouldn't have been capable, but because it makes more sense that they simply didn't start on count one. In "All Along the Watchtower," when the lead guitar comes in, it follows the same "and-four-and-one-and two" count as the intro chording, so I think that's just how he was feeling it. When my students come up against this, I clap along on the downbeats after we've determined what count the intro starts on. That seems to enable them most of the time to "unhear" what they thought it was.

[@lukasbackestrom3931]

I still hear it The wrong way too this day. But a good starting point is to listen Bob Dylans version, then you'll be able to hear The syncopation in The guitar riff

[@bashtracks]

It's just in 4/4 all the way through. It's confusing on first listen, I agree (mostly because of the drums, I think) but the clue is to go check out the ending. There they play the same motif as a background for the solo, and that gives away the time signature of the intro. :-)

[@yteixeira]

To me the drums are to blame, as the snare hits on the anacrusis but the downbeat is left empty. Also, the guitar phrase ends after the downbeat (metacrusis), the whole thing is briefly misleading. Quite elegant.

[@lizzie1335]

david bennett piano essentials: a beatles example and a radiohead example

[@ShirubaGin]

The only musicians that exist are Radiohead and The Beatles

[@JohnEndres1974]

May he never change.

[@LeLoMa]

YES.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

When I was 14 I got my first MP3 player and, no joke, all I had on it for the first year was The Beatles back catalogue and each Beatle's solo back catalogue.

[@BandCalledTheSleep]

@@DavidBennettPiano that’s amazing 😂

[@michaelvandeginste3497]

"High Hopes" by Pink Floyd. The bell that fades in becomes the off beat when the piano part starts.

[@thesmashfloydian]

Similar concept in “Runaway” by Kanye West. The piano by itself sounds like it’s on the 1, then when the beat starts you suddenly realize it’s on the 2

[@thesmashfloydian]

Lol I should’ve scrolled down like 2 comments before saying exactly the same thing someone else has already said

[@ThadTheDragon]

I was waiting for this example. This was the first one I thought of.

[@mostlymotiongraphics2134]

I don't listen to this album enough. It's the first CD I bought, but I end up listening to Dark Side of the Moon and Wish You Were Here on a more regular basis

[@anonymoushuman7794]

I always counted it on the fourth beat

[@gavinmitchell1328]

Strangely enough, All Along The Watchtower makes perfect sense to me because I hear the guitar riff start on the and of 3, not beat 4. Crazy how different people can hear it differently!

[@TraceyLarvenz]

Same. I’m reading the transcription in the video going, “the transcription’s off by an eight note, not the intro.”

[@Humbucker-hg9ku]

I can’t hear this wrong. I think it is brilliant what Jimi did but I don’t find it hard to follow. Anyone else?

[@stevesheroan4131]

Same with Rock and Roll. Start on the ‘and’ of 3 and it makes perfect sense.

[@stevesheroan4131]

Try ‘Tell Me Something Good’ by Rufus & Chaka Khan, Lonely Boy by Andrew Gold, or Frontiers by Journey.

[@slimygastrodon]

Agreed

[@JayForeman]

Not an intro, but I've always found it impossible to latch on to the "don't worry now, don't worry now" section of Bandages by Hot Hot Heat. Despite knowing on paper where it is, and counting loudly along, (and despite the time signature not actually changing at all) my brain refuses to hear " *DON'T* worry now", instead of "don't *WORRY* now".

[@DavidBennettPiano]

I can hear what you mean! There is an added beat at the start of the section, but then a skipped beat at the end which cancels it out so they never really leave 4/4! I think it's the drums which is dictating that we hear it this way - clever little trick!

[@ignorantFid]

I can't hear it that way, I only hear "DON'T worry now" @_@

[@calebfudrums]

WOAH A MAP MAN!

[@sahiblindberg]

Jay you are the man! Greetings from Finland

[@alextheguitarist7282]

Hello, nice to see you here.

[@lucadicriscio5614]

Another confusing intro can Be Found On “Everybody Wants To Rule The World” By Tears For Fears

[@emilycinnamon]

That is one of my most favorite songs💗

[@IlGreven]

I never seem to get thrown off by it, but I can get where that opening embellishment can throw people off...

[@Margar02]

Yes!

[@station2station544]

I've always noticed this - PERFECT example.

[@avlisk]

YES! That's the one I've never figured out. It seems to me as if they had 2 tunes and someone spliced them together in a drunken moment and it was accidentally released that way.

[@GiveZeeAChance]

"Hey Ya" starts with a countoff of "1, 2, 3" on beats 2, 3, and 4. It never bugged me but confused the hell out of a drummer I played with in college

[@rosskeenum4413]

For Hey Ya the more confusing part is the measure of 2/4 thrown in on every phrase. 3 bars 4/4, 1 bar 2/4, 2 bars 4/4. You end up with a with a delightfully weird 22 beat groove

[@GiveZeeAChance]

@@rosskeenum4413 Yeah, the funny part is that drummer had no problem with that. I personally find neither aspect confusing but the bars of 2/4 make that song fun to play when it could otherwise be pretty boring

[@jfelix3523]

@Director_Coulson yes, years ago when my band decided to add this song to our set list, I had never heard it before, but when we listened to it at a practice, I thought "what a way to screw you up right from the top."

[@gurrrn1102]

Hey Ya is the only hit song to be in 22/4 time 🧐

[@bobgreen8142]

The intro to Marquee Moon has a confusing effect - when the drums come in they seem to play across the guitar part as if they have started on the wrong beat, but once your ear discern where the downbeat is the effect is really uplifting.

[@TroyBlackford]

Your videos are the best. I love your musical analyses. Not a lot of channels like this. A million movie analysis channels, video game analysis, or music theory channels, but this is by far the best channel even attempting this. I'm a huge supporter even if I can't do patreon or anything right now (family is recovering from losing a child after a lengthy cancer battle, so it isn't that I don't want to).

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thanks Troy! I'm really glad you enjoy my videos! And I hope your family is ok 🙂🎵

[@TroyBlackford]

@@DavidBennettPiano My pleasure. Thank you. It's been hard: little Adrian was the sweetest, smartest, kindest, funniest little boy I've ever met. His absence is felt deeply every day. We are all trying to keep going. His big brother turned seven in the summer and it's been rough on him, as you can imagine. But in the good news department: we have a baby girl coming at the end of January and we're very excited to meet her! I also had to leave my job to take care of little Adrian full-time, and when I started looking for work again, COVID happened, but I'm finally working at a great place that helps people, starting earlier this month, so that's a lot less stress. Sorry to spill my guts out! But I appreciate you taking the time to be nice.

[@drtimsparks]

For the 'watchtower' hendrix example, it makes a lot more sense to me if you put beat one on the fourth eighth note/quaver chord of the opening riff (and 4 and 1 and 2), rather than the third that you use (4 and 1 and 2 and). Then, there's no need to add any extra beat anywhere, it's just 4/4 all the way through - no need to overcomplicate...

[@konkey-dong]

it sounds like the cover he used accents that chord too to really hammer home the '4/4iness' of it

[@yteixeira]

I feel the guitar laying the downbeat on the second 8th note, so there is a full beat added somewhere after. To me makes more sense that way.

[@ethandexter9470]

I felt it the same way!

[@yteixeira]

Went back to Hendrix to check it out. You are right, there is no extra beat. But I still feel that the snare drum and the guitar kind of mislead my ears on the downbeat on the first measure.

[@dcaccavo1]

@@konkey-dong the easiest way to start "re-teaching" yourself how to count it is to splice a count-off onto it. It starts on "3-and.."

[@jcthefluteman]

One intro that always confused me was Everybody Wants To Rule The World by Tears for Fears, took me a long time to figure that one out

[@macaronandcheese18113]

oh hi jcthefluteman

[@lucyjohnson8727]

I think it's like 5/4 time or something like that which makes it sound a bit weird

[@seveneightsixone5992]

its just 12/8?

[@kingcaliph5135]

I found it confusing as well

[@pay9011]

I recall the odd beat being analyzed in some of the YT drum covers. Or maybe the guitar covers.

[@luvmenow33]

Music is so simple and so complex. What a wonderful channel you have here. I just hope it's not all musicians watching and it's alot of people learning music theory for the first time. Not to mention all the wonderful songs your introducing to people

[@philbushell1420]

Misty Mountain Hop by Led Zeppelin starts with the Piano intro which only identifies as being on the off beat once Bonham's drums kick in around the 5th bar. Always gets me!

[@GregoryGeller]

Can't believe how long I had to scroll to find Misty Mountain Hop

[@escaperoomleander1948]

The great thing about having zero music knowledge is that I can't even define what the downbeat is, therefore I can never be tricked into thinking a piece of music is supposed to do anything a certain way. I just enjoy what I'm hearing.

[@SirArthurTheGreat]

That’s not how feeling music inherently works. You can still have a feel for these things through unconscious exposure to rhythm norms without having to have a knowledge of it.

[@escaperoomleander1948]

@@SirArthurTheGreat There's a video where Harry Connick Jr. "adds" a beat to a song in a live performance because the audience was clapping on the "wrong" beat. Other than the band being excited about how now the audience was clapping on the "right" beat, nobody else could tell...or cared.

[@th3giv3r]

You sound like the kind of person who will stop at nothing to not just defend but exalt ignorance. You're not content in just existing with your pride in your lack of knowledge about anything, you are actively offended that somebody could WANT to attain knowledge about anything and feel personally attacked by this so you endeavor to undermine the validity of that pursuit. You remind me of the last American president.

[@escaperoomleander1948]

@@th3giv3r Incorrect. I've tried to learn the difference between clapping on the beat, or clapping on the downbeat (or whatever music people call the "wrong" time to clap, even if the entire audience is clapping at that time). I can't tell the difference. And yet, I enjoy the music. Unlike certain educated assholes, who can't enjoy a piece of music unless it's "correct," according to whatever bullshit theory they have learned and know. Ignorance is sometimes bliss, and there's nothing wrong with that. You might "understand" modern art in a way that allows you to enjoy a giant red square painted on a blue background, and why it's perfectly okay for you to have paid $17 million for it. Good for you. You just blew $17 million on a red square on a blue field. Ignorance depends on your point of view.

[@Scionilex317]

@@escaperoomleander1948 Ignorance is never a good thing, wtf are you on about. Complacency with ignorance is expected, defending it is asinine. There's a reason why ignorant people are easily forgivable because "they didn't know any better". But you're an example of willful ignorance, the kind that nobody likes. Also making a strawman with modern art doesn't help your case, you just sound like a tired old man.

[@stevenloyd6116]

“Lonely Boy” by Andrew Gold does this. The piano intro sounds firmly on the beat, then the backing percussion comes in on the apparent “off beat” and things feel unsettled, then the more prominent drums on the prechorus undeniably establishes that the piano was offbeat the whole time.

[@christophoertel354]

Two other examples are: 1) HIGH HOPES (David Gilmore), where the bell seems to hit on normal quarters, but are on the offbeats 2+ and 4+ kzbin.info/www/bejne/gICXn62iasiNi80 2) TAKE IT EASY (The Eagles), where you could think that the intro guitar plays on downbeats, but play on syncopes: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gICXn62iasiNi80

[@azb2a]

Less than 1 minute into the video and we already have a Beatles example. Love it

[@sunflorence-59]

Does anyone else find that the intro to "Everybody Wants To Rule The World" by Tears for Fears throws them off a bit?

[@rhettbuckley2660]

I learned to play that on the piano this summer, and it took a lot of work to get the timing right. The timing is 3/4, (or maybe 12/8, but I'm not fancy), but the accented beats are quirky. ONE-two-three, one-TWO-three, ONE-two-three, one TWO-three... Nice call Kodi

[@warriyorcat]

It will throw you off if you arent counting in 12/8 time. Instead of counting in 4, count in 8. There is also a guitar buildup where it gets more twangy just before the synth/drum part.

[@kendallbrown9301]

yes

[@danielstephenson7558]

YES! every time. Only when the synth comes in I hear the rhythm. Up until then, all bets are off...

[@jeffeager]

Yeah that's a tough one. Especially because when that intro riff comes in again later in the bridge of the song, it's play more "on the beat" ... not the same as the intro. I've played this in a duo many times, and we always stumble into the opening

[@bobwoolerOriGinal]

He somehow managed to forget the mother of all confusing intros: Kinks' You Really Got Me.

[@ledkicker2392]

Yes! Took a while to understand that the intro riff and the chorus riff are the same, because the intro sounded like it's starting from the on beat

[@BillGraper]

Yep, that's the one I thought would make it for sure! I still can't figure it out when I listen to it. LOL

[@terrypussypower]

What? You find the intro confusing? Hmm.....I just went and listened and I always hit the "one" on the second guitar stroke. And I've been trying to hear it another way but can't. What guitar stroke do you hear the "one" hit on? Is it "DUH duh duh duh DUH" ....Instead of "duh DUH duh duh DUH"?

[@ledkicker2392]

@@terrypussypower exactly, that's how I heard the riff for the very first time, you could really expect drums to come on the first note If you're trying to hear it, try to imagine drum hits on the first and the last note of the riff

[@BillGraper]

@@terrypussypower I've always heard it "DUH duh duh duh DUH." Then it would switch when the drums started. A couple days ago, I tried really hard to hear it the correct way. After listening to it over & over, I was finally able to hear it as "duh DUH duh duh DUH." It was very difficult, but I think I can finally hear it correctly from the beginning now.

[@officialbandjonger]

Cannonball by the Breeders is another good example. Love the intro but it's hard to nail doing a cover when you're first learning it.

[@indiegun]

Another band Kim Deal played in, The Pixies, crafted a similarly tricky intro with Kim's opening bass line to the song 'Gigantic'. I also remember squinting at first trying to figure out where to land the downbeat to start the opening vocal on a song that sounds trickier than it is: 'A Bell Will Ring' by Oasis. I love these deceptive intros...

[@officialbandjonger]

@@indiegun This reply is crazy, because I noticed that for the first time after re-listening just yesterday!

[@indiegun]

​@@officialbandjonger Awesome! That's a crazy coincidence. I've always loved covering these songs no other bands really do. I checked out your channel BTW. You guys sound really cool. You should try and do some studio-type recording. Even a home-studio setup would be a great next step. Heck - even a Zoom R16 or R24 would let you guys put out some stellar multi-track recordings. I'd love to hear your stuff in a bit cleaner format!

[@breakfreak3181]

Never really noticed that about Cannonball. Always sounds like it drops in on the one to me!

[@nicholaskeeling5036]

@@breakfreak3181Yeah listening to it now, it doesn’t sound rhythmically irregular at all. Maybe the confusion is coming from the bass modulating upwards as the beat hits?

[@jgagnier]

The Rasmus. Man, digging out the back catalogue! I haven't heard that in the last 15 years,

[@josephkalisz6343]

I've been subscribed for a while now and wish there was more channels like yours. Every video you make is very well put together and engaging. I love the concepts for your videos and keep doing what your doing.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thanks Joseph! That means a lot 😊😊

[@AlanKey86]

For the Q&A: When you arranged Frere Jacques in 7/4 did you experience the amazing emotional response that many other people have had when they listen to it? That is, did it "move" you? Or were you surprised by how emotive people find it?

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Great question! :)

[@tedl7538]

On a whole other plane of complexity, follow the downbeat throughout the composed head and first improvised chorus of this Bill Evans jazz piano classic, Oleo: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a6DEpZarapmbg8U

[@olivergerber]

Sorry, but in "All along the watchtower" to my ears it is pretty clear that the first down-beat is on the 4th eighth note (--> you have a 3 eighth notes lead-in). To my ears, this one is clearly accented. Then you don't need that 9/8 bar and everything just works fine ... 😂 (Interestingly enough, you also kind of switch to that interpretation after the 9/8 bar.)

[@vampires-from-mars]

Yeah, that's how I hear it too. But I get why somebody would feel there was an extra eighth note

[@jakezimmermann6454]

So clearly “and 4 and 1 and 2”

[@ZOB4]

I agree - I think the transcription here is incorrect.

[@innocenthedgehog8367]

Same.

[@denisbito]

I was about to comment the same thing! This, to me, is the most simple and elegant way of interpreting the song. Cheers!

[@sarabretting3033]

Your channel is pure gold. Musical student here. Keep up the great work, David.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you !

[@pkelly206]

this better have a radiohead example in it

[@DavidBennettPiano]

😏😏

[@robbiepeterh]

Identikit came to my mind.

[@TheInselaffen]

Beatles, check. Radiohead, check.

[@pkelly206]

@@DavidBennettPiano alot of amsp has some good examples of this i feel, its hard to find a beat in the start of desert island disk, identikit and the numbers your first few listens, also excellent video as per usual!

[@tacultube]

actually Pyramid Song has two minutes of confusing intro/song until the drums start

[@Ciaronski11]

"I Just Wanna Live" by Good Charlotte always gets me. The strings in the intro sound like they start on the off beat because of the dominance of the bass note but when the drums come in they're on the beat and it throws me completely. No matter how many times I've listened to it

[@slamcrank]

I would say that Zeppelin's "Misty Mountain Hop" has a more confusing intro than "Rock And Roll", but probably not as fun to explain.

[@DonyaLane]

YES! Thank you! That's my other lifelong conundrum.

[@DonyaLane]

I just went and gave it a listen and confirmed why it is confusing. (Haven't listened to that song in like, 25 years.) The pickup is only a problem the first time you hear the song, but after you know how it goes, you know to feel that opening pickup on the "and of 4." The thing that was always continuing to throw me and keep me second guessing myself is the phrasing and optional way of interpreting the vocal melody. But if you just keep counting in 4, it will all come out in the wash, but until they land on the chorus (which settles into a 2/2 feel), it just feels so uncertain... AND I LOVE IT!

[@harleck9119]

​@@DonyaLane I've always found that intro "logical" in terms of tempo. Maybe it's because I've listened the song uncountable times so I got used to it lol

[@DonyaLane]

@@harleck9119 , yeah... kinda like what I was saying above... it's only a problem the first time you hear it. But after that, you then know where it lands. It was fun revisiting this song! Great record!

[@harleck9119]

@@DonyaLane agree!!

[@brucelang626]

The Beatles drive my car, I even found an outtake with the count in, but it still throws me! I guess when you hear a song for so many years a certain way, your brain gets trained!

[@MyNameIsJakeBolton]

As a bass player, this took me so long to get right but now I get it every time

[@salamandersaladman8483]

"Don't Pass Me By" by The Beatles, written by the one and only Ringo Starr

[@viktorkaposi8256]

I guess he means the one and only Billy Shears :)

[@jongilbertson2106]

@@viktorkaposi8256 That would mean he got by with a little help from his friends.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Great suggestion! Also, side question... do you prefer "Don't Pass Me By" or "Octopus' Garden"?

[@sadlymusic]

Ringo Star sang for the Beatles as when Doug Clifford sang for the Credence Clearwater Revival : funny goliardic experiment (a drummer replacing the greater singers of the history) !

[@TeShiky]

@@DavidBennettPiano i prefer dont pass me by

[@7dedM]

My favourite confusing intro: Cut 'em down to size by Golden Earring kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGLNdJRrqtipo5I

[@reillywalker195]

"Acquiesce" by Oasis has a confusing intro made confusing by how it begins with an entirely different song. In the studio version, you hear Noel singing "Morning Glory" with an acoustic guitar, which gets interrupted by licks from an electric guitar played at a slower tempo. Eventually, the electric guitar takes over and the actual song begins, but not before the listener has been disoriented by the two guitars and songs competing in the intro.

[@Artifex421]

And then there's Cream. Sunshine of your Love starts with the snare on the downbeat, so you immediately get the correct sense of rhythm. But then after two repeats of the intro riff, Ginger Baker keeps the snare on the downbeat, and toms on the following eighths. Since we're used to snare being on the upbeats, the our ears tend to switch to that. And so when the chorus comes in, it messes our brain rhythm up.

[@lowcostfish]

I don't hear it like that. For me, the singing and guitar cement the snare as the downbeat. It's not hard for me to feel it the way you describe because as you say we're used to that drum rhythm. I wonder how many people naturally feel it each way.

[@ZoomRmc]

Don't see anything confusing with the SOYL at all. N.S.U. on the other hand gets me every time. Just brilliant.

[@MrvlZmb]

“Rock and Roll” is best counted while imagining the drums are doing a “Johnny B Goode” style intro. Also, “Freedom of Choice” by Devo always got me.

[@JillCheese]

For me, it's 777-9311 by Morris Day and the Time. Once you latch on to that A1 drum riff, once the downbeat comes in, you have this moment of shock that makes you feel like you're running away from the beat. I love and hate it at the same time😂

[@cpgrayca]

"Everybody wants to rule the world" by Tears for Fears has a rhythmically tricky into.

[@derlinstiles]

This song. I know how to count it properly (now) but it still feels very forced and unnatural when I do it. I think it's because I had this rhythm in my head a certain way (shifted an eighth) for so long, starting when I was a kid

[@bmac4]

That's more due to the swing groove I feel

[@derlinstiles]

I think what also throws me off is that the first guitar note starts before the down beat and slides up to the note on the down beat, so there is no transient happening on the first down beat to orient myself

[@hannahofhorror]

Yup. Now it's all too familiar, but I remember it confusing me.

[@ccalebcampbell2941]

Yes! The guitar solo sounds like 3/4 played on the downbeat in 3/2 time with an extra 8th note at the end until the band comes in and establishes the 6/8 time signature.

[@awookieandagerman]

Unchained by Van Halen. I was convinced for years that there’s some tricky time signature stuff going on in the intro, but I finally realized Eddie was just accenting a different beat on the second go around than on the first. Mind blowing for such a small change to throw me off so much.

[@pepafonico]

"Misty Mountain Hop" by Led Zeppelin. It is said that actually John Bonham entered in the wrong beat (in a way that even caused a change in the main riff, with Page and Jones trying to adapt it). The band liked it and incorporated the mistake.

[@TaliMonaghanmusic]

I always got confused when my band was playing the intro of "you really got me" by the kinks, none of the rest of my band seemed to notice anything but the second note of the riff starts on the beat, not the first, and i was glad i wasnt the drummer that had to figure out where to come in

[@JamoboBorg]

I was not expecting anyone to talk about the Rasmus in 2020...!

[@DavidBennettPiano]

It's been a crazy year hasn't it!

[@GameplayKuningas]

A freaking Finnish band used as an example. What a year

[@cee2373]

@@GameplayKuningas Torille!

[@carringtonpilon1310]

Right?! I was a little surprised I even remembered the song to be honest but my inner middle school emo was rocking out like a doofus nonetheless.

[@Leo4gzs]

Came to the comment section to find this.

[@robbiepeterh]

Dead clever how you source all the tracks so that you don’t infringe on copyright ✌🏻

[@DavidBennettPiano]

It's a bloody mission! Thanks for the appreciation 😃😃

[@c.andamir]

The intro of Beatles' Drive my Car is pretty confusing, too.

[@transformationgeneration]

I play bass on this in a Tribute band. I had to throw aside any attempt at a count and just allow myself to find it naturally. Now, I come in on my intro riff exactly like the record every time. How or why? I have no idea; it just happens, naturally.

[@fabiocardelli]

Yes!!!

[@louisknupling9086]

We rehearsed it soo many times - and it still does not work when you try to count. Just like you say, it comes naturally

[@garrettvandenberg2031]

Another huge one for this is “One I’m Waiting For” by Relient K. As a drummer I struggled on this track for literally years in highschool when I used to play through the album. I could do pretty much everything else on the album “drum-for-drum” but the first track consistently confuses the hell out of me. I’m still not totally sure what’s going on. It’s impossible to count

[@Ayyem93]

Swap Meet by Nirvana was the first time I became consciously aware of this happening

[@joesampson2658]

Same here

[@mgumwv]

It still takes me until measure 3 that my brain actually recognizes the correct timing.

[@peterjarahian3511]

Yes! Swap Meet is the first song that came to mind when starting to watch this video. I just tried listening to it again, and I just can't get into the correct timing of the riff until half way through the intro (just like Michael Gum said)

[@Ayyem93]

@@peterjarahian3511 I still remember the first time I heard it. "Da da da, da da da dada, da da da" etc thinking "this is a really weird time signature then the drums kick in and it became a completely different riff, blew my mind

[@bentoomey15]

Very Ape plays a similar game with its intro.

[@PianoVampire]

Beetlebum by Blur - he even counts it in at the start yet it still throws me every time, because the vocals sound like they are off time if you count with the timing - maybe Damon Albarn was also confused and they left it in the mix!

[@darkeye79]

My thoughts too

[@BulletDrummer]

This is a good shout. Listen to the slides in the main riff during the intro compared to when the verse vocals come in. In the intro it sounds like it's coming in on the 4, but because Graham Coxon strums the D chord at the end off the riff for an additional note, when the vocals come in it shifts the slide onto the 1.

[@orikoru]

Great shout, Beetlebum is the absolute worst for this. Get it wrong in my head every single time. I just always think the slide note is the third note because it kind of replicates the snare in a drum beat... but the slide is the first note.

[@orrerybandcleveland1255]

Checked out the Blur song and it is straight as an arrow. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@Griloso]

I was going to comment this. This song throws me off every time.

[@BillMcClintockMashups]

“Going Crazy” by David Lee Roth and “Kickstart My Heart” by Motley Crue. I can’t force myself to hear those intros correctly.

[@dracopliskin]

with you on kickstart my heart, that always trips me up

[@martinhroch344]

Van Halen - Panama

[@benparsons4979]

@@martinhroch344 what's wrong with that intro?

[@martinhroch344]

@@benparsons4979 Its timing is kinda weird and it had confused me for a long time.

[@rockeruss555]

@@martinhroch344 I've been playing Panama song for years on guitar and found nothing odd about the intro. What is it in the beginning of the song that gets to you? Very curious. 🤔

[@securerofthebag2890]

Tattooed Love Boys by The Pretenders is a great example of this. The time signature swaps rapidly throughout the intro and the instrumental bits of the song and it creates an effect where it kinda jerks your brain out. It switches from 7/4 to 8/4 repeatedly iirc.

[@jadenthemusicfreak]

One of my favorite songs of all time

[@blaynecookmusic]

The intro to “Hold the Line” by Toto has always confused my ear until the drums enter and clear it up!

[@artwitha.g.8955]

Me too !! The first few times I’ve heard the song I was rly thrown off !

[@dickiebobradio1304]

Is it regular or do they throw an extra beat in there?

[@satiric_]

@@dickiebobradio1304 It's regular. The initial snare hit is on 4, and the piano comes in on 1.

[@robeads6913]

As a keyboardist, I had to learn to count triplets on the count-off to the song to nail it. 12/8 time signature with hemiola syncopations.

[@millercgr]

@@robeads6913 David Paich of Toto was inspired by Sly and the Family Stone's intro to Hot Fun in the Summertime

[@gagefraw3182]

“Marquee Moon” by Television is a masterclass in offbeat playing in 4/4, mixolydian voicing, and song structures. Check it out!

[@maxsignori7660]

@Joey Macaroni Great record, great playing and great sounds, from drums to bass and guitars, love it! Though I heard a live somewhere, from 77/78 or thereabout that was even better than the record, the guitars were killer!!!

[@marlowename3713]

incredible song

[@deedledumb790]

@Joey Macaroni underrated is not the same as underappreciated or simply not widely known. People who have listened to Television rate them very highly.

[@richnisbet1]

Street Fighting Man - The second chord is on the one. Take It Easy - Starts on the four-and. Thank you for this video. We’ve all wrestled with the songs you covered and your detailed explanations are very much appreciated.

[@johnpiercy3562]

Although I have been listening to it for decades, the drum intro for "In the Air Tonight" by Phil Collins always takes me a bar or three to pick out the downbeat.

[@slacklinebernie]

Yes, was the first thing that came to mind.

[@juaneliascampastri732]

You can think the phrase “Stranger to you and me” as the 1 2 3 4 count before the fill

[@mcgintymusic]

This is great. I've always been baffled by "All Along The Watchtower"! Some other examples: "Since You're Gone", The Cars "Car Wash", Rose Royce "Tell Me Something Good", Rufus "The Daily Planet", Love The second half of "Stairway To Heaven". The guitar riff starts on beat 2. Confused me for years.

[@TheRaandu]

''Daddy cool'' and ''Love for sale'' by Boney M. have confused intros for me

[@marilyndavid1916]

I used to sing Tell Me Something Good, counting like mad 🙃🤣.

[@GCKuss23]

"Free Ride" by the Edgar Winter Group is another great example. I always hear that riff as if it begins on the downbeat, but it has a lead-in

[@alexglanowski695]

I know Free Ride, and I've been actively trying to think of the song so I can hear what you're saying, but my mind keeps giving me Foghat instead 🤬

[@PianoVampire]

Just by the title I knew Sex on Fire would be in here - I've yet to meet a guitarist that starts it right...

[@Twannnng]

As a guitarist I've gotta say we (well, I) start it just fine, it's getting the drummer to come in correctly that takes forever!

[@Robbedem]

@@Twannnng lol :)

[@Spectrefreezy]

The guitar is the first instrument meaning the drum is responsible for getting the timing right...

[@krautgazer]

@@Spectrefreezy What if you're the drummer getting it right but as soon as you enter, the guitarist mixes it up? That could also happen. :P Worse if they complain that you're the one entering at the wrong beat.

[@Spectrefreezy]

@@krautgazer I'm sure that could happen and has happened. That would be unpleasant. I think bands have those issues all the time, but it can be fun if you're playing with friends and you get to master the song together!

[@dogthedogblack]

One Ocean by Chevelle is another great example. It has such wonderful guitar intro, and when the rest of the band starts playing it becomes even more beautiful

[@rummzeiss]

The same thing with "You Really Got Me" by The Kinks

[@katyyork934]

I was gonna say this

[@delisub2910]

My god that beginning riff always confuses me lol

[@Jolgeable]

They really got us.

[@A.F.Whitepigeon]

And for that matter, Eruption by Van Halen.

[@enricodelascio4330]

True, two completely different tempos

[@8Clips]

Radiohead have a real thing for hiding the real rhythm in their tracks, it's quite impressive. Videotape, Pyramid Song and Bloom are three great examples from three different albums. Definitely worth checking out.

[@_earthling]

And the layered polyrhymic guitar fingerpicking for Let Down.

[@_earthling]

Pyramid Song still drives me nuts.

[@miamonteverdi]

@@_earthling Pyramid Song is one of my favorite songs that sounds like it's a weird time signature but is actually just 4/4.

[@jonny26281]

@@miamonteverdithe joys of syncopation

[@Jupiter862]

All Along the Watchtower: my ear never had an issue with this one. I always heard the intro riff as starting with . . .+4+|1+2 There's no 8th note added into a measure, it just starts 1 8th earlier than DB suggests

[@blacksheep8427]

Agree. That's exactly what I hear.

[@RennyAvM]

Same here. Interesting to learn that some people hear this intro differently. I couldn't figure out where he heard an extra eight!

[@chrism8922]

Totally concur with this (and searched the comments to find someone saying it).

[@danielberrry]

Agreed!

[@karlthunderaxe]

exactly, that's what i came here to say

[@amicandaroom]

Doobie Brothers "Evil Woman" - kzbin.info/www/bejne/nKOwanqpfLipY9U

[@earl3736]

Holy shit. I thought it was only me with Bodysnatchers. That intro always drives me crazy.

[@michelschafstadt7435]

The intro to Ænema by Tool is misleading too. The beginning implies a 3-based measure, but when the drums kick in the feeling shifts to 4. Fuses to a 12/8 measure I think

[@powerpeanut8865]

"High Hopes" by Pink Floyd: The Bells after the intro (which is also pretty chaotic) seem to be onbeat, but once the Piano kicks in, we get confused, since it's offbeat. When the Bass and Vocals join, we realize the bells ar on the offbeat!

[@cursedbernard5598]

You Really Got Me is the first song that springs to mind. Gets me every time.

[@RetroPandroo]

"Rope" - Foo Fighters , always messed with my head when trying to drum along

[@lmla2022]

OMG yes, you get confused TWICE before the drums come in

[@greglizee3040]

"Spirits in the Material World" by the Police gets me every time.

[@j_freed]

I hear it plain as day but those reggae upbeats on the chords are there to mess with rock listeners (Probably not so much Bob Marley fans.) Here's a way to hear it correctly - on the opening drum fill, the final note of that IS the ONE...

[@barrysinclair354]

I am a bass player and this is one song I mention as being impossible to figure out

[@mickdriver3942]

I play bass, and one way I like to wind up drummers is to suggest that we play any song with Stuart Copeland on drums. Never fails to get a rise.

[@GeoffCanyon]

Sure, "Spirits," but how can you bring that up and not also mention "Invisible Sun"? That intro gives me nothing to hang on to.

[@SeatLeonMK2]

finally someone

[@untexan]

“Minute By Minute” by the Doobie Brothers. The keyboard intro makes you think it’s in a driving 4/4 beat, but then the drums start in and you realize the song is actually in a slower 6/8.

[@jacklarson6281]

do you think "It keeps you running" would also fall into that catagory?

[@BruceCichowlas]

I love to play "Minute By Minute" alone or with a band for exactly that reason!

[@robtyman4281]

Depeche Mode's 'Blasphemous Rumours' is a good example of a song with a confusing intro ...where two different beats compete with each other, before both give way to a different third beat. Another example is David Bowie's 'Up the hill backwards'. I think there are several Bowie songs from various stages of his career that had confusing intros.

[@Noone-of-your-Business]

What are you talking about? Blasphemous Rumors begins exactly on the "one" and is a perfectly straightforward 4/4 when the kickdrum sets in on the same "one". One pattern later, the bass enters on the exact _same_ "one". Just count! There is *nothing* irregular about this song's intro!

[@AvoidsPikes-]

"Policy of Truth"

[@larapiovesana5548]

I hadn’t heard Blasphemous Rumours before and I really like it, thanks for introducing me to it!

[@Dizzydawne]

Ha I got one but it’s super unpopular, Egg- Symphony NO.2…hurts to listen but it hasn’t the most confusing intro that I’ve ever heard probably in the world of music

[@VahurAasakyla]

"Milky Chance - Stolen Dance" both the intro and ending

[@becci2772]

Yes I was about to comment this!

[@fettycheese2498]

I have never noticed that!

[@RachelsSweetie]

I've been playing Watchtower for 40 years and it's always clearly started on the "and" of 3. I've tried hard to hear it your way but I just can't. The vibraslap on the third beat of the first four measures pretty well pins things down.

[@takman5937]

Alan Parson’s “I robot” is a good example as well. Long intro. It starts about 1:45 into song but really impressive. You’ll be surprised.

[@rockfyre3095]

Indeed. Plus with the delay, it can really throw you if say you listened in one earbud where the downbeat is and then listened to that same section with the other earbud where the delay is.

[@lisadioguardi5742]

I was just checking to make sure someone mentioned this one.

[@LewisShieldsUS]

Checked here, too. Love how bass saves the day and makes sense of the downbeat.

[@tell6662]

Fake Empire by The National. The first verse and chorus are just vocal and piano, and your ear is convinced it is in 4/4, but then the drums come in, and without changing the melody it is now in 3/4. Great stuff!

[@jameshamilton8034]

You are so good my friend. I love everything you have released. You’re entertaining but also educational and you’re the perfect mix of both. Thank you! 🙏🏼

[@maromaro1337]

"Van Halen - 5150" intro riff is a bit confusing. Even Sammy Hagar admitted then when Eddie showed him the riff he had to look at his foot tapping the rhythm.

[@MultiCappie]

What on Earth is a Sammy Hagar fan doing watching a video about musical theory?

[@maromaro1337]

@@MultiCappie I like all Van Halen. Just thought of this song.

[@JiosX]

also the first part of mean streets

[@j_freed]

Eddie does throw a spare half a bar or something in there just as he and Alex start playing full cranked.

[@Zelelidis13]

Ι think also Panama has a tricky intro

[@markscountlessbarks]

OMG where is The Police"s "Spirits in the Material World"??? THE most deceptive upbeat pulse disguised throughout the song! Or "Bring On the Night"??

[@nomchowski8297]

It's a song with all the accents on the up beats. That's the accents the synth intro is playing. Nothing confusing there... Not listening to a lot of black music are you now? 🤯😂

[@jonathanlafrance8643]

You’re videos are SO GOOD! Lots of prep. Brilliant! Great teacher.

[@DavidBennettPiano]

Thank you!

[@manifestgtr]

The king of confusing intros is “higher love” by Steve Winwood. It starts with drums and has a funny (5 or 7, I forget which) pickup. I only recently sat down with it and figured that out after years of just “kind of knowing where one was” lol

[@pierrederesistance]

Oh man. Every time I think I know what's happening, I put it on again and realise I was wrong.

[@aronatvw]

A song that instantly came to mind was Let Down by Radiohead. When I went back to listen to it I realized the intro is 5/4 over the verse which is 4/4.

[@wilberts.cubero3629]

Yeah the 5/4 guitar riffs over the 4/4 drumming sounds confusing as hell, yet so beautiful.

[@JRobsonGuitar]

One that got me was "Heat of The Moment" by Asia. It sounds pretty "normal" when you listen, but once you try to play it it comes out as 2 bars of 3:4 and a bar of 4:4

[@txnmia8613]

Never noticed it before but yeah it's kinda strange! I guess I'd call it 10/4 time? With an extra 4/4 bar leading into the chorus.

[@kath_nanaya6803]

I'm really fond of the way Between the Wheels by Rush does this, it's a really cool effect especially in the r30 live version

[@speedstackingmaniac]

The opening drums to Never Gonna Give You Up - admit it, you probably have not figured it out Thanks for the likes, everyone! I figured it out: it starts on the "and" of beat 2

[@paultheaudaciousbradford6772]

Try listening to it a few more times. I’m not sure, but I think you can find it on KZbin. Good luck!

[@georgemckenna7570]

They enter four 8th notes in, right? Obviously my ears are never prepared for it and always assume they come in on the first beat.

[@snookerwither9955]

@@georgemckenna7570 You're right. It took me a while but I realised that that was what was happening

[@thealientree3821]

If you want to listen to the Never Gonna Give You Up intro, the link is here. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqWak62uqtd9Z6s

[@AureliaKai]

it always felt a bit off, but I never payed attention. But thinking about it now, it's super weird lol.

[@WellMefisto]

Finally someone to talk about this!

[@bowdimohawk]

"Runaway" by Kanye West utilized the "on beat to off beat transition" in its intro. The descending chromatic piano line sounds like the down beat, but the rest of the song comes in on the up beat, making the piano actually sound like its landing on (+) or (2) depending on how you count it.

[@oscarh5439]

The first song I thought of

[@jasonhorn901]

Thanks for these videos. I'm a novice myself, but find this absolutely fascinating. I really appreciate all the time that you put into these videos and your willingness to share your valuable and insightful expertise.

[@justalittleguywithsomeproz1162]

born under punches by talking heads has to have one of the most disorienting and terrifying song openings ever

[@monkeybusiness673]

Holy heck...Rhythmically it's not all that confusing to me, but what the everloving jeebs is the bass doing?! O_O

[@-rizen]

i think the entire song is quite disorienting

[@YoniDaMan]

my favorite example of this is “Stolen Dance” -Milky Chance

[@tsmberk]

'Spirits in the Material World' by The Police. Gets me everytime.

[@cletusbeauregard1972]

especially in the last verse

[@shefmeisterextraordinaire3717]

Yes. Also "Demolition Man" (on the same album) whose off-beat intro Sting "sanitised" when he re-recorded the track in 1993.

[@oliverlabrador8880]

This took me a bit but if you follow the bass line, you should get it every time. If you heard the bass line alone you’d think it flows right in. Great band and even better drummer. Stewart is the man haha

[@simonhodgetts6530]

King of Pain - I can never, ever get the first snare hit......and I’ve been listening to the song for 35+ years!

[@kendalldude1329]

yes, "spirits"

[@chandlermccoy1813]

"Lights out" by Royal Blood. Such a very simple intro. Just 7 eighth notes, but with no context it can be enough to misplace where you hear the beat. Interesting how our brains fill in the gaps when not enough information is available. Music is a great reflection of how our brains work. Beautiful!

[@custard228]

This is the first song that came to mind for me, iconic!

[@january8175]

“You Really Got Me” by The Kinks is a great example of this! It always throws me off at first

[@Angelo-r-b]

yesss that was the first thing that came to mind

[@BarthiArgento]

The first time its confusing but if you start again after just understanding it gets easy the second time

[@SuperNevile]

"All You Need Is Love" by The Beatles is another. Starts in 4/4 and then alternates 3/4 and 4/4

[@DaveSmithCA]

Eddie Van Halen's intro is even more so

[@4scended498]

The Beatles - Drive My Car John Cale - A Child's Christmas in Wales Radiohead - Reckoner The Velvet Underground - All Tomorrow's Parties Weezer - Holiday Kanye West - Runaway

[@markpatterson2507]

Drive My Car for sure

[@wgb01001]

Yeah Drive My Car is a really good shout! Upon listening you’d think the intro lick starts on the one, but it’s really the “and” of 4!

[@daoletto2]

Drive my car is great: it’s at the same time unnecessarily complicated and yet completely natural

[@maximilicich]

Haha we needed to talk about THIS so much! That kind of talk only musicians can understand you. Thank you for bringing this subject here

[@bbxdesign]

I've been keeping a playlist on Spotify called "Offbeat" for exactly this type of songs. Will add the ones from this video to the playlist.

[@withallduerespect3001]

You should link it (and add Automatic Stop)

[@maryvallas772]

The first song that sprang to mind when I saw this title was "Bring On The Night" by the Police. The Bass guitar starts and sets up the beat, then the kick drum backs it up and solidifies it, but then the guitar finger picking and vocals come in and smash it apart! It's beautiful and brilliant, but confusing!!!

[@MihaiIordacheJazz]

The Police has a lot of these. Spirits In The Material World comes to mind.

[@maximilicich]

Cult of Personality by Living Colour can be another confusing intro example. It tricks me every now and then

[@free187s]

“Life’s Been Good” - Joe Walsh. The drums start on a snare and gives the feel it’s the down beat. The guitar gives you the context when it comes in next.

[@DannOfSteel]

Rocky Mountain Way does it too

[@hnnymn]

Great example. Fools me every time, even though I know I'm hearing it wrong!

[@teleplucker6802]

@@DannOfSteel Thank you. I thought I might be the only one. That intro threw me for a long time.

[@DavidCobb2011]

I always love Tragically Hip’s “The Darkest One”. What starts out so confusing wonderfully merges into a tight syncopated groove. Canadian genius at work. 😊

[@colinjones3547]

“Too much time on my hands” by Styx. They hook you into a strong downbeat then flip it 180 degrees when the vox comes in. Always threw me for a loop.

[@Margar02]

Yes!!!!!

[@Margar02]

And again before the last verse comes in when ye says 'now i'm a jet fuel genius'

[@christiandady2581]

Yep, great example!

[@Doordashjonathon]

Poopenfarten goober

[@erinwilson8478]

That's the one I find surprising also.

[@isaacpriestley]

This Charming Man by The Smiths is a great example, when learning it took me ages to get the syncopation right.

[@amaliagherman1166]

I’ve been trying to learn it on bass because it sounds so easy but I just can’t nail it properly it’s driving me insane

[@brendangilmore4297]

You're absolutely right about that - as the guitarist I have to count myself in at the intro - it took me ages too.

[@biquini]

XTC’s “Wake Up” or Biquini Cavadão’s “Inseguro de Vida”

[@schoontube]

Wake Up is a great example.

[@enricodelascio4330]

Pode brasileiro aqui?😳

[@samuelandrade3117]

Biquíni oficial por aqui? Pode isso Arnaldo? Hehushahshaa

[@joaog_freitas]

que crossover kkkkkkkk

[@jeffsmith3645]

XTC's "Stupidly Happy" also has an off-kilter intro. But is it a purely on-beats-become-off-beats example, or is there actually an added 8th note? You decide.

[@stevesorrell9835]

"You Really Got Me", by Van Halen was the first I noticed, back in the 70s. Great video! I've always loved this type of time-foolery 😸 I think I may have just coined a phrase!