Sonic Comics were WEIRD (ft. My Friends)

🔴My Main Channel: / saltydkdan
👕MY MERCH!: sharkrobot.com/collections/sa...
🟢VODs + Extras: / @saltysvideodump8242
🔵Clips Channel: / @saltmine7068
🐦Twitter: / saltydkdan
⌚️Tik Tok: / saltydkdan
🦆Clips Twitter: / saltydkdanclips
✉Tumblr: / saltydkdan
------------------
--BOIS IN THIS VIDEO--
Salty (Derek):
(Links can be found at the top)
Pastey:
/ sanctoklinge
/ sanctoklinge
Gerber:
/ gerbatron16
/ gerbatron16
Mikey:
/ binjomonkey
/ binjomonkey
------------------
Thumbnail art drawn by Claire:
/ citisstreets
------------------
Edited by:
RasenDan - Reaction Section
/ rasen_dan
Gomotion - Intro Segment Audio
/ gomotion_
Saltydkdan - Intro Segment, Script, Visuals, and Tweaks
------------------
Special Shout out to HumbleSquid, Claire (CitisStreets), and Nicktendo for advice and pointers on parts of this video
/ humble_squid
/ citisstreets
/ itsnicktendo
------------------
Music used:
We Shop Song - Lud and Schlatts Musical Emporium
Varios Tracks from Sonic Adventure 2 (and other Sonic games)
Various Tracks from Dark Souls
Various Banjo-Kazooie
------------------
Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:16 What is “Archie Sonic?”
5:57 Introducing my friends to the comics
#sonic #reaction

[@Saltydkdan]

**CORRECTIONS:** -At 12:45 we assumed that the entirety of issue 131's main story was pencilled by Ken Penders, but it was actually pencilled by Steven Butler! (Also the cover was moreso drawn by Spaz, and inked by Penders)

[@Taterr__Tott]

Saltydkdan

[@Nister.N]

Saltydkdan

[@timothyowen4785]

Hopefully Steven Butler can recover from having his work mistaken for Ken Penders', a comparison like that can do horrible things to a man. With enough chad energy, though, he'll pull through.

[@pastapower0504]

Saltydkdan

[@_-Lx-_]

*CORRECTION* That was a singular correction

[@anifsky1065]

As Cybershell once said about Sally the Acorn, "did Sally singlehandly make countless people go down the dark and twisted road into becoming a furry? well, there's really no way to know for sure.. But the answer is of course, definately, 100%, absolutely, Yes."

[@FlareStorms]

can confirm

[@LoreSeamstress]

yeah she got me

[@rainbowresorts]

Sonic flash games were the first domino for me

[@anifsky1065]

@@LoreSeamstress same 🙏

[@dodsonboys]

I wouldn't say it was Sally, it was probably the other guy who's name starts with an S

[@TheNobody-ru5xg]

Archie is the wildest comic, but shoutout to Fleetway where there’s a short story about Tails almost reenacting the JFK assassination

[@Unoriginality_Incarnate_stupid]

Tails is a menace

[@SailorDee]

excuse me WHAT

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

@@SailorDee It’s a long story, but basically, it was a test of character for Tails.

[@EagleTimberWolf]

@@geoffreyrichards6079 Don't you dare omit the part about him being given that test by a literal unicorn wizard X'D

[@HumeAnn]

Or how Sonic straigh up broke someone's ankle because they tried on his shoes

[@craftboy338]

As a kid, the issue where Tails and Sonic fight was like, earth-shattering to me.

[@DipperPines1986]

Sonic vs. Tails is actually quite an interesting concept. I wouldn't mind seeing them fight again in a comic or TV show.

[@wolfenden9805]

@@DipperPines1986 just don't throw a tails love interest scenario

[@beauwalker9820]

​@@wolfenden9805 in fairness, the writer Ian did it to get rid of that "Tails liked Fiona and was upset at Sonic for being with her" plot point, and get rid of the tensions/anger, and show Sonic didn't intentionally try to hurt his friend.

[@beauwalker9820]

Not for me really, I knew like with his battles with Knuckles, Shadow, Blaze, Silver, ect. things would work out in the end, and they would be friends again. Sonic fighting his friends or frenemies is basically a common Sonic trope.

[@mcstm9445]

@@DipperPines1986 so what do you think now ?

[@EntityEntity]

The Archie Comics is simultaneously one of the best and worst things to happen to Sonic.

[@Micktrap397]

Yeah, I won’t deny that Archie Sonic didn’t have perfect history, it had decent start, but it ended up going downhill during the Late 90’s and Early 2000’s, When Ian Flynn took over, he improved the series until it got rebooted. The reboot somewhat neutered the series, But not as bad as the games from the Meta Era.

[@paperluigi6132]

@@Micktrap397 and Ian is doing a fantastic job with the IDW series while working within SEGA’s restrictions.

[@bigs5078]

Archie is like the hardest sell ever. I fucking love it and think its some of the highest quality writing and art in the franchise, but *man* do you have to skip over or wade through some crazy shit to get the good stuff.

[@amesstarline5482]

@@Micktrap397 I think as limited as the reboot was, it didn't crowd the main cast. I kind of miss that feeling in IDW, of a core vast where many can have their own subplots.

[@JohnnyTightlips2007]

@@paperluigi6132 Sadly I have issues with the new series as well. For one it suffers the exact opposite problem of Archie. If that was too weird and unhinged, than IDW is too restrained and market friendly.

[@sillygooseygirl]

Fun fact: A few years ago, Penders took to Twitter to lament about a cut storyline in the comics. He had apparently wanted to write a storyline about Sally Acorn losing her virginity to the character Geoffery, stating that “Sonic is fast, but Geoffery was faster in that department.” But wait, there’s more! Sally was canonically 16 or 17 pre-reboot and Geoffery was 21. Meaning Penders wanted to write a storyline about a teenager losing her virginity to an adult in a children’s video game comic. Do with that information what you will.

[@boanoah6362]

Not just an adult, a royal guard, she's a princess after all, further I believe he wanted to set that story when she was 15 or so. When people on Twitter asked him about the weird creepy pedo vibes he defended himself by saying she was legal in some states.

[@BRD-Senpai]

i'd say something like #PendersIsOverParty but penders was over before he started

[@leviticusprime4904]

Penders is a strange man isn’t he

[@mattwardproductions7399]

So statutory rape (unless you're in a place with 16 as AOC. Still creepy). Great.

[@herowither12354]

In most of the western world, 16 is the age of consent.

[@Its_PizzaTime]

They couldn't have just given Charmy a son named Charmy II and have him be the goofy one? Makes sense for him to name his son after himself since he's royalty.

[@leeshyd531]

Huh. That's... actually a pretty good idea!

[@rynemcgriffin1752]

Yeah but haha bee get crippling brain damage

[@Door227]

And charmy the first would be too busy with royal duties to work with the chaotix so instead his son does it

[@technicolormischief-maker5683]

SEGA still might’ve shot that down, honestly. Mandates funny.

[@akesan2374]

Honestly, given how bullshit the current mandates are, i wouldn't be surprised if they were told that they couldn't just do that

[@Subpar1O1]

Archie Sonic had things like a cartoon bee overdosing on a hotdog laced with family-friendly LSD and Charmy being left brain damaged to the point he regressed into a child. I swear this comic had something against bees

[@vioveo7440]

The whole brain damage thing actually happened because they got Charmy's age wrong. Canonically, he's supposed to be a little kid, but American writers thought he was 16 and wrote him as a teenager. When Sega found out, they demanded his personality be changed to be more like the games. The best the comic writers could come up with was giving him brain damage to regress his personality.

[@AAhmou]

The best/worst thing, that isn't the darkest thing that happened in that comic issue.

[@KrandelCalibur]

@@vioveo7440 uh... The video literally describes this very thing. It's not that they got the age wrong, it's that when they introduced Charmy, all they had to go for him was his description in Knuckles Chaotix, which describes him as a 16 year old, so they used that until Sonic Heroes came out, which retconned his original bio and made him 6.

[@gregcourtney751]

@@KrandelCalibur the english bio haf him as 16. He was always 6 in japan I think. So yeah still not the comic writers fault.

[@carso1500]

@@KrandelCalibur the original japanece description says that he is younger, that was a mistranslation

[@splattwig]

Archie was borderline nonsensical at times

[@ashikjaman1940]

At times?

[@mithras9706]

@@ashikjaman1940 It's because the other times it was nonsensical.

[@ejd4670]

Borderline???

[@samshapira8295]

BORDERLINE?

[@voiddwelling7285]

The reason It's only Borderline Nonsensical, is because It's 100% Fucking Batshit to the point where everything that did make sense also made no sense and so to the people reading the comics, it made sense because it made no sense, and thus a paradox ensues.

[@ankle-beez]

Would've loved to see the guys' reactions to Knuckles' dad microwaving him as a baby

[@MarbleSodaPop]

WHAT?!

[@darksquigglyboy]

@@MarbleSodaPop It's how Knuckles became a living chaos emerald.

[@tntalchemist]

@@darksquigglyboy W H A T

[@boanoah6362]

@@tntalchemist Knuckles' Dad had a dream premonition and in the middle of the night hastily blasted Knuckles with Chaos Emerald microwave radiation. It's why Knuckles' can fly, why he's so strong, why he can sense the Chaos Emerald from miles away, why he's essentially immortal, all of it. Literally he had a nightmare and microwaved his baby to turn him into an immortal super soldier.

[@redactedoktor]

@@boanoah6362 I tried this once. Pro-Tip, remember to differentiate between “Chaos Microwave Energy” and “Normal Microwave Energy.”

[@objectivehypocrite2012]

About the "Tails: Enemy of the State" issue, Sonic also sorta kinda tried to help keep Tails' parents as political prisoners to uphold the monarchy. Yes really. This was also only like a few months after Tails met them for the first time in his life because they got abducted by aliens when he was a baby. This comic was wild.

[@AAhmou]

Also Black Doom and his Black Arms forces (from Shadow the Hedgehog) never invaded in the comics canon, as they were too busy fighting against the aquatic tentacle aliens the comics introduced. Lol

[@felixdaniels37]

That whole arc was aggressively stupid. Sonic being a lapdog to any kind of authority, let alone a kingdom, is so egregiously against his entire concept as a character it's baffling it even went past the concept stage. Also this was an Ian Flynn arc, shockingly enough.

[@redactedoktor]

This. Fucking sentence. It’s an SCP from beyond our dimension and has breached containment, it is not supposed to BE HERE,WHAT IS THAT COMBINATION OF WORDS YOU CALL A SUMMARY?! What were they SMOKING!! Agkcczxzsrrvbsdg!?’vnv

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

@felixdaniels37 Ian was only keeping it in-character as far as the comic’s original context was concerned. As contradictory as it now is, the original Archie Sonic was loyal to the royal family. There’s zero chance of something like that being written for the Archie reboot or the IDW series today.

[@mattwardproductions7399]

Sonic is a fucking royalist

[@Keyboardeater1]

The pitch video Penders made for his idea for a Sonic film is wild. For some reason a lot of writers had a fixation on Sonic coming out of a video game world, rather than the simpler alien take from the film that got made...

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

Their was a movie way back where he would come to real world in the suburbs that is now just a bunch of disjointed concept pieces

[@KrandelCalibur]

The movie concept of a videogame/cartoon character jumping out of their world and into ours seemed to be a popular idea among movie directors at the time for some reason as I remember a couple of movies with that very premise.

[@donnelwaddledee965]

I think it was a way for the director to get away from ACTUALLY adapting the series, and just throw the character in "The Real World"

[@Keyboardeater1]

@@donnelwaddledee965 Probably cheaper to have one animated character back then than a whole cast of them, plus environments.

[@zixvirzjghamn737]

@@Keyboardeater1 I agree, they knew they're limits and didn't try , prolly would'a sucked if they did

[@samuelsolomon7330]

Two notes about the Ken Penders situation: 1. Archie comics has a history of mistreating their artists, including rewriting character dialogue that include any mention of the artist's name. Ken only really won the lawsuit because Archie lost his contract, and he got to keep the rights to all 3 million reskins of knuckles. 2. Sega released a game called Sonic Chronicles: dark brotherhood on the Nintendo DS, and the main storyline is about a secret civilization of advanced echidnas that plans to dominate the earth, and one of the characters was a female echidna that rebeled against the empire to help the heroes. Ken had an entire storyline on his run in the comics that had a suspiciously similar story, which resulted in another lawsuit where he hoped to gain some of the games profit. Unfortunately, the game was one of the worse performing games in the franchise, so the pot of gold he was seeking out became just a thimble full, so he just dropped it. After the Archie lawsuit was won, Sega cut ties with Archie, and set in place a new set of rules so Ken doesn't try to pester them again. Among these rules include, but are not limited to: no mention of the characters from the Archie run (so Sally and the Freedom fighters will never appear in any other official Sonic media ever again (edit: so those characters are actually owned by Sega and not Archie, so that's my mistake)), Sonic losing, and Sonic crying. If there was anything I'd like to say directly to Sega or Penders, I'd tell Sega to loosen up, because Sonic is one of the most popular characters ever conceived (and Ken wouldn't really have much ground for another lawsuit anyway), and Ken should move on and let go, because there is more to life than one job he did back in the 90s.

[@sonicstar917]

Sally and the Freedom Fighters were not created by Ken Penders, nor did he ever lay any claim to them. They were created by SEGA of America for the Saturday morning cartoon simply titled "Sonic the Hedgehog," or as fans refer to it; Sonic SatAM. Nobody at Archie ever laid claim to them, either. SEGA owns Sally and the Freedom Fighters. Not Ken Penders. Never has, never will.

[@samuelsolomon7330]

@@sonicstar917 I'll admit, I was wrong about that. However, Ken did kill any chances for Ben Hurst concluding the show in favor of pitching his own movie that never went into production. Regardless, you are right, and I should have looked into it further.

[@lxi..]

I also saw in a video that one rule is that Sonic will never get with Amy, even if it's just a kiss or two sided hand holding

[@nellewoodruff6337]

@@lxi.. Very stupid rule, yet I can see where they're coming from with all the sexual stuff Ken tried to sneak in

[@lxi..]

@@nellewoodruff6337 either that or they want Amy to exclusively have a crush on Sonic only and not pull an Avatar and have them get together at the end

[@PoisonLaz]

I wanna point this out, Chaos/Green Knuckles wasn't embued wiht JUST the Chaos Emeralds' powers... but he was just an egg when his father did it, in a special machine designed to do so. His father literally put him in a Chaos powered Microwave as a baby.

[@conradojavier7547]

I wish Chaos Knuckles was the Canonical Replacement of Super Knuckles in the games lore wise.

[@conradojavier7547]

I would have Canonized Chaos Knuckles, & Rename him Master Knuckles.

[@runeanonymous9760]

damn I forgot echnidas laid eggs. when people say that only platypi lay eggs I remember but the information only seems to pop up in connection with platypi

[@idunno7427]

The Fleetway Edition comics were the strangest, imo, but the Archie comics definitely had wild stuff.

[@woobgamer5210]

here's the real question, who's more of an asshole. Fleetway Sonic, or Archie Sonic when he keeps cucking his own best friend by stealing his girl, TWICE let's just be glad Penders started being out of the picture when Sonic X happened, otherwise Penders would find a way to fuck up sonic x season 3 by having Sonic somehow steal Cosmo from Tails before her death

[@idunno7427]

@@woobgamer5210 I feel like Fleetway Sonic was an asshole more consistently, but Archie Sonic's asshole moments were worse than the former. BUT YEAH YOU HAVE A POINT ABOUT SONIC X... GEEZ I FEAR THAT TIMELINE

[@LostMercenary99]

Fleetway still had the better writing. Super Sonic... holy shit....

[@Kolbatsu]

I mean Fleetway did have Tails have to assassinate Robotnik ala JFK as a test of character and that's not the weirdest.

[@supercamborg4218]

I agree that Fleetway Sonic was certainly stranger overall, but I think Archie Sonic’s WTF elements just had something to them that made them hit a bit harder, if that makes sense. It could absolutely vary by personal experience but with Fleetway I just kind of became numb to how bizarre it was after a while but with Archie several things just left me questioning for longer. Maybe it’s something to do with the different types of strange things that varies between the different comics or the consistency of how often things were just wild.

[@verboselocket3896]

Explaining the lore of the Archie Comics is like explaining the FNAF lore to your 8 year old cousin

[@lxi..]

My favorite thing in the entire Archie comics is the fact that there's a baby Echidna named fucking _KNEECAPS._

[@LAZY-RUBY]

The fact Ken was ever part of this series is bizarre. The man had zero interest in the games themselves, and kept wanting to kill off Robotnik as the villain. The reason Knuckles' plotlines (and his spinoff comic) were so weird was because Ken was using Knuckles as a vehicle to tell his own sci-fi alien story. He wasn't allowed to touch certain aspects of Sonic, but since Knuckles had so little character in the early days, Ken was basically given free reign with the echidnas (and why Sonic often took a backseat in stories penned by Ken. Hell, he was in charge of the Sonic Adventure adaptation and wrote in some bs about Knuckles actually being the one to stop Chaos!) After he was canned and Ian was brought in, 2 things happened; 1)Actual content from and references to the game series skyrocketed. 2)Ken retooled his echidna concepts into the sci-fi alien story he'd always wanted to make. He has been at this for close to 15 years now hand has yet to produce a single issue of content.

[@Shaddytheguy]

Minor correction: most of the Sonic Adventure arc was penned by Karl Bollers, the last issue just fell to Penders for whatever reason

[@polocatfan]

To be fair they did kill of Robotnik for YEARS and it was actually pretty successful.

[@genesisknight9948]

I just feel like both the comics and the games are in safe hands if Ian has any hand in them.

[@skeletongwen]

I'm gonna be real, the drop of what happened to charmy in this continuity had my jaw hit the floor are they INSANE

[@skeletongwen]

They couldn't just make up a little brother charmy take the role of the excitable kid or something? THATS what they landed on???!

[@genericname2747]

This is a universe full of magic and amazing science. But I guess they just wanted to give a kid brain damage

[@thag_simmons]

oh if you thought charmy getting de-aged via brain damage was bad, charmy ALSO has a friend overdose on LSD-spiked chili dogs and DIE, simultaneously as an A-plot and a footnote while some other members of the cast eat those same chili dogs and trip out. shit's wild and I think there's gotta be something wrong with us longtime sonic fans to put up with gut punches of weirdness like these.

[@mitkitty]

Ian did say that plot point was one of his major regrets. At that point he was having to clean up the mess of characters and plotlines from previous writers so it got...messy

[@gregcourtney751]

@@thag_simmons dont forget its implied that the lsd was given to "young minds" while a panel of echnida versions of the rugrats are shown. Yes apparently "young" means toddlers.

[@RickRaptor105]

"Knuckles departed last month" is the greatest caption since "Poochie died on the way to his home planet"

[@Pinkywinkykinky]

That knuckles departed line was as nonchalant as that hunger games simulator saying someone has died; Knuckles was also left out there like snow white. 💀

[@Shaddytheguy]

To be clear: in that instance, "departed" is literal. He just went home, that's all it meant.

[@withyline]

I was legitimately thinking “permanent brain damage” was the best long-term solution, and that it made perfect sense. Now, I can’t look at myself in the mirror.

[@bagelgod946]

Archie sonic was absolutely wild but that’s kinda what made it great and once Ian Flynn became head writer it actually became really good.

[@sezunemizuhana3870]

It's always such a shame people only ever talk about Archie as if only Penders wrote it, and never give the other writers their due respect. I feel like Archie, when it was written by Flynn were some of the best Sonic stories ever.

[@amesstarline5482]

@@sezunemizuhana3870 To help- I think the problems with pre-Flynn Archie wasn't strictly Penders, as a lot of early-early Archie did not age well either (not just Geoff's crush on Sally, but also Robotnik's own in the Halloween special, the gag-dense nature, the repetitive plot threads between Mecha Madness and Endgame, Amy being pushed aside until they chose to not retcon her age as they did with one-5 year old Tails, Bunnie and Rotor being underutitilized- especially with Robian drama). Scott Shaw was a little too newspaper comic for Sonic, Spaz's detail is neat and responsible for many styles, Jon Gray was the first one to bring game-accurate looks to Angel Island, Karl Bollers is Benny Lee, Many Hands happened twice, and the creator of Holo-Lynx Nicole also did the Rush adaptation a n d now supports NFTs. Footnote: Gray is actually most of why we have Blue Shoe Ray, not Flynn. Still refer to Return to Angel Island.

[@sonicstar917]

Imagine thinking Ian Flynn is infallible and can do no wrong. Truth is he's had his own share of bad writing, regardless of SEGA's "mandates." Like how he gave Charmy brain damage to be more in line with his personality from Sonic Heroes onward. Or how he made Rouge so unabashedly selfish to the point she was willing to let Blaze's world *DIE* just to get the Sol Emerald. Not to mention, his portrayal of Shadow in Archie (a pushover) is proof that he doesn't really respect the character. Heck, a good chunk of his plots have characters act like idiots in order for the plot to advance, and nowhere is this more evident than in the IDW comic's Zombot Arc. From Eggman not having a backup plan (which goes against the GAMES), to Sonic REFUSING to take responsibility for his actions, and the most egregious example; Shadow in Issue 19. And before you say "SEGA's mandates are the reason why it turned out so bad," that's not entirely true; Flynn wanted Shadow, in his arrogance, to remove his Inhibitor Rings and become Chaos Shadow, thinking that would burn off the Metal Virus, only for it to backfire. SEGA shot the idea down because "Chaos Shadow" isn't a thing in the games, and Flynn himself later confirmed that the reason he had Shadow get infected in the first place was "to escalate things." *TL:DR; He made Shadow act like an idiot in order for his plot to advance.* That is bad writing, and I'm sick and tired of this fanbase scapegoating SEGA to protect an overrated fanfiction writer from admitting that his writing isn't "peak Sonic." He got lucky when he got hired, and Sonic is ALL he has going for him. You can say the same thing about Ken Penders, but Ian Flynn himself said that he has no other job skills as a writer so he's "clinging to this spiky blue moneymaker for as long as I can." Without Sonic, Ian Flynn is a nobody. And frankly, telling people that Sonic is a "children's fantasy" that shouldn't be taken so seriously and that older folks should "go read adult material" if they aren't satisfied with his style of writing, falls short when you consider the Metal Virus Arc. Arrogance and hypocrisy is all I see from Flynn.

[@theEnd612]

@@amesstarline5482 Which artist/writer are you referring to in regards to Nicole? Just out of curiosity

[@shygaifu3592]

@@sonicstar917 mucho texto

[@wednesday8174]

Salty having the title of "Official Ken Penders Ratioer" is the best news I've heard all day

[@Green-Raccoon777]

Oh, so he's a Keffals, then?

[@bluefrosttouch9161]

As a Archie Sonic veteran, you NAILED 100% the feeling I and many others had with the 290+ issues that were a wack and a GIANT rabbit hole to go down into ( And this is from someone who has a soft spot love for this comic series as it was the main inspiration for me becoming a artist for 11 years ). The fact that I read ALL the issues ( including the crossovers and spinoffs ) and even after the 5 years since the comic was cancelled, I vividly remember even the most minor details in any arc is truly a thing. Not sure if it's something to be proud of or ashamed of LOL Great work on this video. Tip for anyone and everyone, if you want the most bizarre out of context panels to make you and your friends laugh and make fun of, well here you go, enjoy :) Please forgive me for my poor grammar

[@dinonuggets7148]

you cant help but be infatuated with the completely unhinged story the comics go into, truly interesting

[@user-vm4nd3ld5h]

INFATUATED

[@lakamokolaka]

What I learned is knuckles really likes to die alot in these comics

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

He is built to be a shield so

[@lakamokolaka]

@@senritsujumpsuit6021 If the sheild is being ripped a part by wolves in the forest what good is the sheild?

[@senritsujumpsuit6021]

@@lakamokolaka Still absorbs damage just less of it in long term

[@Shaddytheguy]

To be clear: he dies once and comes back (Penders wanted him to stay dead, if you can believe it)

[@pajamapantsjack5874]

I’ve said this before, but there ain’t no artist I hate more than ken penders. The ego of him to ruin the sonic comics because he wanted to keep the characters he made. It’s the antithesis of how an artist should act, yet he’s lacks so much self awareness he still thinks he’s in the right. Also his art is really funny.

[@jadeposh4468]

It’s true, but now that you mentioned the art style, it kinda reminds me of the first sonic design for the movie. It really appears to be a realistic design of his own creation coming to life. The teeth is what got me. 😬

[@rankrodent2772]

I genuinely think he doesn’t know any better, kids like someone with special needs

[@runeanonymous9760]

Apparently he once drew the Digimon Emperor on the cover of a copy of Digimon Beckett

[@TheBonkleFox]

Remember the time someone commissioned him to draw foot fetish art and he (penders) tried to make some excuse as to why it was actually super deep with subtle meanings?

[@BareBandSubscription]

He also killed any chances of a Sonic SatAM continuation while Ben Hurst was still alive. He’s destroyed two different canons.

[@TheSpeedPlays]

Crazy you put this video out, a few months ago I did like a two hour long podcast about the Ken Penders Lawsuit, managed to get the actual court documents from the proceedings and everything. It was way, way, way worse of a legal battle than you can imagine. (Also, Ken didn't sue Archie, it was the other way around because he went to copyrighting his works with the US Copyright office which Archie said was a violation of his contract with Archie, but even that fact alone leads to another fucking rabbit hole.)

[@ruke2566]

Oh I want to hear your podcast, what's the name of your podcast and what's the episode title where you discussed about the Ken Penders situation?

[@TheSpeedPlays]

@@ruke2566 it's called Archie Sonic Digest. Its all up on my channel here. The one you're looking for is titled The Ken Penders Lawsuit

[@ruke2566]

@@TheSpeedPlays Will check it out (as well as your entire podcast too) soon enough!

[@snickrdoodle_skywalker]

​@@TheSpeedPlaysShoulda been called "the Penders problem" *Seinfeld theme* I'll see my way out

[@jayc.9968]

Obsessed with the small, sometimes subtle edits like the random mort and the star wars spaceship flying out of that guy's nose, or the forehead wrinkles x10. Comedic genius

[@jeraldjoyce2995]

this is good shit. We need more of this.

[@connorbeith3232]

The Mort part makes so much sense being placed right after the feet panel.

[@vioveo7440]

I didn't realize how much I could hate someone I've never even met until Penders came along. I don't mind him suing for royalties, or even a settlement fee, over characters he created. Especially considering how Archie shot themselves in the foot by not keeping proper records. What I do mind is how he kept trying to dictate a story that was never completely his to begin with and how he disappointed thousands of fans, including me. He didn't just want character rights, he wanted his 25-years-later storyline to be the only canonical future for the comic. He didn't just want royalties, he wanted control. And now, we'll never know how all the storylines set up in the comic were supposed to end.

[@Shaddytheguy]

Technically we eventually will...it'll just be a really long time, because Ian Flynn would be jeopardizing his relationship with SEGA to reveal it while he still works for them.

[@Bolty128]

Best thing about that last story is that the echidna giving the eulogy straight up calls Knuckles a "man-child".

[@rimfire8217]

What Religion was Knuckles a part of?

[@DrunkenHorseman]

I actually remember owning one of these comics when I was younger and I can indeed confirm things did seem a bit strange about them compared to the games themselves but it was also somewhat entertaining

[@codenamexelda]

I have the faintest memories of my first Archie sonic comic... you just opened my memory floodgates.

[@rimfire8217]

Just like in IT. All those memories flood back

[@smarkmalark]

These comics were so fucking weird when I was younger. They definitely got really good after like 150 or something when Ian took over writing. I know it’s an unpopular opinion but I think even the short lived remake after Ken sued was pretty damn good

[@Shaddytheguy]

I don't think that's an unpopular opinion, the reboot is generally pretty well-liked. It's just a shame it was shot down in its infancy

[@Snev]

Definitely familiar with how startlingly bizarre they can be, but I'm especially excited to see your coverage on the topic; love your Sonic videos so much, you funny fella

[@RabbitKetsukane]

I’ll never forget being like 10 years old and owning the Sonic Mega Collection Plus on the PS2 spending hours in the extras menu looking over the Sonic covers and thinking about what was happening in the issues. All the while the most relaxing and depressing music plays in the background… anyway I’d love a part 2 of this video lmao.

[@Grandpharaoh91]

God, same

[@Shaddytheguy]

Most of those covers were drawn by the legendary Patrick Spaziante, who had a real knack for making the Archie comics look way more interesting than they actually were. We've been covering them over on my channel, and there's a point where it almost feels like false advertising for the cover to look _that good_ and then the actual comic is drawn by Dave Manak or even Penders himself.

[@RabbitKetsukane]

@@Shaddytheguy oh my god don’t EVEN GET ME STARTED! When I got stable internet and learned like almost a decade later that I can just google the comics and read them online I was disappointed with what was actually happening in the story. I wanna around like 2010 and maybe even a couple years before that, the stories were actually getting cohesive and had pretty good conflict and character moments. I’m gonna miss Archie comics and all its characters.

[@superubergoober]

god i wish i had the mega collection or even a gamecube still

[@williammerkel1410]

That's what I did on the GameCube, one of my defining childhood memories

[@realfromtherealreality4148]

Maybe, but Scourge is one of the greatest trainwreck ever created and I love this recolor with all of my heart. (Seriously the scene where he tries to kill chuck but gets verbally crushed actually made me emotional.)

[@splattwig]

I REMEMBER THAT ISSUE! Wasn’t it Sonics dad, not Chuck?

[@bigs5078]

@@splattwig yeah, it was jules. Having the robot war vet punk Scourge the fuck out was great

[@realfromtherealreality4148]

@@splattwig Oh snap, I thought it was Chuck due to the crippled, robot-like, state the guy was in, since it's kind of Chuck's thing from what I remembered. (Which made his survivial through sheer verbal brutality so much more impactful.)

[@Shaddytheguy]

@@realfromtherealreality4148 It's kinda the other way around. Chuck invented the roboticizer, and was easily the robian whom we saw the most in the series. But Jules was the first test subject because his injuries from the war were going to kill him otherwise. This is why he remained Roboticized when the Bem turned everyone back to normal; if he weren't a robot, he'd be dead.

[@-Cray0n-]

Same

[@psyduck_theterrible6457]

I had a bunch of these Sonic comic compilation books growing up and for a while I was obsessed with collecting them. By the time I had gotten to issue 50 (which was meant to be the ending of the original overarching storyline), I had pretty much checked out of the story. I had no idea they did my girl Sally and my man Snively so dirty in the later pre-Genesis Wave comics.

[@gregcourtney751]

They didnt show it in the video but sally was robotized for a while. Like she stayed that way and it was after an aliean race just got rid of robotization for alk but sonics dad. Oh he and sonics mom were secretly robotized those first 50 issues and the uncke didnt tell sonic.

[@Rediscool9]

These comics were the main inspiration for many overly edgy, dramatic, and downright creepy Sonic fanfics.

[@JamoART]

Was caught off-guard when I saw my art used at 17:49

[@Soupurman]

Wait which one is your art

[@JamoART]

@@Soupurman the Sonic head

[@tsunderecat413]

wasn't there also an issue where sally strips down and walks into a magic pool that causes her to hallucinate and learn the universe's secrets or something?

[@kylejones8289]

Yep. Sonic Super Special 11, in the story Sally's Acension. I feel like there were probably a lot of young, soon to be furries feeling very confusing feelings reading that issue. We also have Ken Penders to thank for that story, of course.

[@collaterale1]

A magic pool that looks like piss.

[@fuckthisstupidasshandleshit]

@@collaterale1 "I pissed on your wife Sonic, she's mine now." - Ken Penders

[@brunettebi4111]

​@@fuckthisstupidasshandleshit "I've come to make an announcement. Ken Penders is a-"

[@Morgil27]

It should be noted that when that story was reprinted in a trade paperback, they edited the art, so she was now wearing clothes. Also, that, and a few other instances of edited art in the trades, really pissed Ken Penders off big time.

[@rfsmaster]

I know Ken Penders personally, and I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that he has not recovered from that ratio. He keeps a picture of you in his room to throw darts at when he’s angry. Sometimes he’ll tape it to a pillow and punch the everloving shit out of it.

[@leeshyd531]

Whoa, if this is real then I feel bad for you, but seriously that's hilarious asf-

[@percher4824]

As funny as that sounds, I'm calling bullshit

[@leeshyd531]

@@percher4824 lmao ya

[@concertpapyrus8361]

This definitely seems something Kenneth W. Penderson II from the ARCHIE Sonic Comic series would do. Even if this does turn out to be fake, this is still funny to think about.

[@007megaoof]

Isn’t that what Chris Chan did?

[@ScyHigh]

15:40 is made so much worse when you factor in that Sonic is like 16 and Tails is like 8 or something like that

[@kylejones8289]

He was actually canonically 11 by this point in the comic's continuity. Not that that's much better, granted.

[@xxkeminxx]

17:26 I'M GLAD I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO THOUGHT THAT

[@jammyyanny]

i loved it when archie the hedgehog said "it's sonic time!" and transitioned into 3D, it was quite charming

[@leeshyd531]

Oh wow, yeah, that's great! XD

[@NixityNullt]

19:08 100 Gecs in the sonic universe is just Gex with a guitar

[@user-qn3gd4yy4f]

16:12 *Knuckles departed last month.

[@ForgieDusker]

I've had precious little interaction with the archie comic universe, but i vividly remember an issue my friend gave me that was a fight between Sonic and his alternate reality counterpart who was just green with a big scar, glasses and a leather jacket and it was like the infinity war of the sonic world with, like, 30 characters all identical with just enough variation that they could be considered NFT candidates lmao

[@MrNoobsillybilly]

The green alternate reality Sonic is actually the same one mentioned at 1:32 .

[@datemasamune2904]

I honestly have a soft spot for the old Archie comics. I very much liked characters like Mogul Mammoth, Ixis Naugus, and Finetivus. I especially liked the different Chapters of the Eggman Empire, which kinda showed that many actually chose to follow him, rather than being forced. One such character would be Bunny's uncle who was originally robotocized by Eggman, but eventually freed from it. However, due to how so many mistreated them for once being robots, he willingly chose to go back to the Empire.

[@K-off]

11:46 >"Why is he touching his fingernail?" >completely ignores "THE GULAG" written at the top of the page

[@logical-thinking]

5:45 AW HELL NAH HE TRIED MAKING NFTS BEFORE NFTS BECAME NFTS

[@trashlord3214]

15:00 okay but that's literally what happened in that arc

[@ryankossick5791]

I like how they treat the many clumps of stylized hair as something like a tentacle. To the point that if they get cut off, they are replaced with robotic prosthetic.

[@Shaddytheguy]

I think Penders just wanted to draw the echidnas as twileks

[@ryankossick5791]

@@Shaddytheguy LOL, I was thinking the same thing but with Nautolans.

[@duck484]

Damn, you didn’t even go into the original concept for the future comics where sonic was supposed to be crying hysterically because of his children and his entire life with Sally being erased and Shadow married Sally instead

[@zachduperron8543]

Welcome to a treasure trove of weirdness, soap opera-esc romance, alternate universes, bad writing and retcons, post apocalypse, the holocaust, genocide and stories that have nothing to do with the blue blur. Yeah totally for the kids!

[@Vikumax]

Gotta admit I'm really liking these kind of videos Salty. We get the usual fun hilarity I come to expect hut also a nice explanation and history on the franchise. Definitelly would love to see.more videos like this if they happen

[@guest-1564]

I can't believe you skipped over the Echidna Holocaust Poem™! That's a prime Pendersism!

[@Shaddytheguy]

It's because they were only looking at the main series in this video; all the weird Nazi shit is in the Knuckles spinoff series.

[@SmashBrosOdyssey64]

19:43 "We must leave before the wolves come" fucking got me.

[@wirtsroom]

i'm so glad you tackled the archie comics again. as someone who was HEAVILY into them around age nine and witnessed the inane things that would just happen, it's always great to see it not be a fever dream. i actually still own a lot of these too haha! cheers from canada

[@TheDominusIgnis]

I laughed way more than I thought I would at this, the combination of the comic's absurdity with you all poking fun at it was just the perfect comedic combination!

[@botbuster8841]

yoo dom

[@misschieflolz1301]

I need this but with Fleetway sonic. Not enough people know the absolute insanity that series went with. The brotherhood and super sonic always give me chills

[@Jay_18697]

Thnx for covering this topic. I used to read the Archie sonic comics when I was a kid back in 2015-2016. I loved reading them, Especially the ones with Scourge (Evil Sonic/Anti Sonic). I haven’t read them in a while but WOW, didn’t know they were this bizarre. You’ve earned your self a sub my friend :)

[@majorghoul9017]

If you want more of Scourge, then I'm pretty sure that between her green fur, character and being made by the same guy (ian flynn), Surge the Tenrec in the IDW comics is pretty much scourge on estrogen and with lightning powers

[@StepperBox]

5:18 bit of a correction there. It was SEGA that sued him for filing trademarks on his old characters. And he didn't win so much as the case was dismissed and Archie were too chicken to fight any more legal battles. So they just scrapped the characters

[@notshardforwork5502]

Sonic's Bizarre Adventure That's the best way to describe the archie comics.

[@flyersgoji676]

I grew up in a household that read comics. My dad was and still is a huge comic fan and I remember when I got into sonic and got into this comic I dove deep. He use to take me to cons and buy me back issues long before they put them in the archive trades and you could just look them up. They were super hard to find. The first “expensive” comic I ever had was issue 0 which was a wall book that I begged him to get me for $20. I have very vivid memories of my father and his friends flipping through these books and making jokes I didn’t understand until honestly maybe 5 years ago when I went back to look at them. The knuckles stuff, sally and what not were really weird and what’s weirder is you had artists like Ron Lim. Who let’s be honest in this day and age is a legend. Dude did the infinity trilogy with Thanos and Adam warlock and Steven Butler who drew the first appearance of the Scarlet Spider costume in web of spider-man 118. There were some names on this book that people knew and It wasn’t till I talked to my dad that I understood that this book had always been kinda a joke book in the community with it’s weird ideas and what not.

[@100spiritlink]

19:30 " lol get fucked knuckles" XD dude are you guys just editing the comic texts in these cuts?!XD i fucking died!

[@DARS_04]

I found my trip while reading this comics very entertaining, when it's weird ITS WEIRD, but when it gets good... Damn!

[@-platypusbeans-1647]

8:01 the existence of a human with mobian proportions implies the existence of a mobian with human proportions and I do not enjoy that

[@maisiemayhem6697]

OH SHIT NO

[@Simeeow]

I introduce to you: Ken penders echidnas 🤢🤮

[@Pefonmo]

Guy translating the Chaotix manual: Strange... They don't list Charmy's age. Eh, I'll just say he is 16 like everybody else. I'm sure this will have no repercussions.

[@lisatroiani6119]

3:57 HOLY SHIT I THOUGHT OF BRAIN DAMAGE AS A JOKE BUT THATS ACTUALLY WHAT THEY DIDJDURNFYRJISJ

[@admiralmage1544]

This has the same energy of me forcing my friends to read Boyfriends. Don’t worry, it was my first time too.

[@ejm1225]

18:37 This is the most horrifying-looking pizza ad I've ever seen.

[@mino2123]

1:58 yo........ did anyone else see that dancing sonic..........?? crazy

[@GrumpySylveon]

Can’t believe Salty did an Archie video before the Game Apologist lol

[@samuelsolomon7330]

Oh boy, it's time for Salty to educate the masses about the anomaly that is Ken Penders. Can't wait to see it!

[@SPG69]

I was today years old when I realized Tails’ legal name is a pun of “Miles per-hour”

[@MrRenard7785]

I got interested in the Archie Sonic comics when I saw the covers in Sonic Mega Collection, but I only read issues here and there. It was always interesting to see such a completely different spin on the characters than we saw in the games. Plus, I just so happened to get the comic with that one Shadow face in it one Easter... that was a good time.

[@AetherialAvenger]

one of my bigger issues with ken penders isnt the fact that he sued for the rights to his characters, but he also sued for the rights to characters he had no ownership of. Ken was responsible for evil sonic, but ian flynn designed and created scourge (evil sonic but after weird transformation stuff from the master emerald that was never explained) but ken sued for the rights to scourge despite never having a hand in his creation

[@kingtut5520]

I'm kinda glad they scrapped Scourge and ended up having to make Surge instead, she's an infinitely better character.

[@NAFEDUDE]

I mean. Rewriting Evil Sonic means the character is still Evil Sonic, so he does own Scourge. it'd be way too easy to exploit if you could just transform a guy into a slightly different guy and say you own the new guy even if his backstory is tied to the old guy

[@Cr3zant]

@@NAFEDUDE "It'd be way too easy to exploit if you could just transform a guy into a slightly different guy and say you own the new guy even if his backstory is tied to the old guy" You mean like how Penders tried to sue for the rights to Evil Sonic (a slightly different version of Sonic) and say he owned him?

[@59hawks]

@@NAFEDUDE the issue I have with that is the fact at the end of the day. Its still fucking sonic. You can't give sunglasses to mario make him start punching a cat and claim he's your copyright. Pen also didn't make the design for scourge either so nothing about scourge he owns.

[@nellewoodruff6337]

@@59hawks Exactly. Same with how Ken owns Green Knuckles somehow. It's stupid

[@NoName......]

Ah the Ken Penders Sonic Comics, what a trip... Edit: Sonic the Comic is easily the best Sonic comic btw. Sonic does act like an ass early on but evil super sonic is easily the coolest idea any sonic comic so it makes it up

[@SMA2343]

Didn’t he win a lawsuit vs Sega and now owns like 100s of “original” sonic characters or something?

[@Nasiruify]

Ken pender-verse

[@qusai_pvz2315]

@@SMA2343 he didn't "win" sega just didn't care enough

[@genericname2747]

​@@SMA2343 unfortunately yes. Now he throws a hissy fit when echidnas exist

[@WeebishSwed]

@@SMA2343 Yeah, SEGA and Archie (think mostly Archie) messed up badly by losing his contract, twice apparently.

[@paperluigi6132]

This video came out at a really great time, as I’ve been somewhat obsessed with the history of the comics recently.

[@Rockotier]

As someone who still has hundreds of issues stored in my basement, this unlocked memories I forgot I had. The craziest shit I can remember was when the french dude got cucked and when evil sonic turned green for some reason then named himself Scourge? Weird times. All this information in my brain and I’ve never had a use for it. (EDIT: Also now remembering when they had to come up with an in-universe explanation for his eyes changing color from black to green)

[@CormDaCrow]

It's really bs that Ken got the rights to Scourge. All he actually made was Sonic with sunglasses and a jacket, who was eeevvilll. The green furr, his whole personality, that was someone else

[@bagelgod946]

Scourge only became something great literally right after he left

[@CormDaCrow]

@@bagelgod946 Yeah and that's somehow HIS charecter

[@kamilawojdyla]

I have never been so thankful in my life until the newer Sonic comics redesigned Espio. My guy deserved better than what Kenders gave 😭

[@itsterra9381]

I never get tired of hearing about the random things that happened with archie or in the comics

[@gregcourtney751]

Well there's the time evil sonic, pretending to be sonic, is heavily implied to have had sex with the robot bunny. That one was penders.

[@mythhouse9972]

Please more deep dives on this subject, cause I feel like you barely scratched the glorious surface. Amazing job!

[@BestBetterBestest]

Vector at Kunckles’ funeral listening to “Lofi beats to mourn and cry too”

[@TotallyCowMagic]

I got into Archie Sonic when I was around 11 and I remember my first issue was 225. The obsession I held for the next 6 years was absurd!

[@bigs5078]

225 would have been a *fantastic* first issue!

[@calliopeavery]

a good chunk of my childhood was spent reading the free digital samples of the sonic comics on my nook, so i had a good idea of the plot and characters and the like, but i was never able to complete any of the storylines. some of the panels and cover art featured here were stuff i vividly remember seeing when i was like, 7 years old, so thats pretty cool

[@user-vb4jh1pp1o]

Say what you will… whole “adventure” story ark, where they tried their best to put SA story in this continuity and making it all (somewhat) cohesive world… is one of the most incredible thing ever happen. Shame, that after they only started doing “in another place, in another time” segments, I was really looking for their version of SA2. (Sorry for broken english)

[@Shaddytheguy]

It was one of their most ambitious arcs. They didn't even have an English copy of the game at first, Spaziante had to import a JP version with his own money!

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

It’s easy to see why they had to resort to using non-canonical ‘elsewhere’ story tie-ins when you factor in how increasingly difficult it was to adapt entire game storylines into an already busy, ongoing narrative with too many elements to juggle. It just would’ve been too much. Plus, the production behind the “Adventure” adaptation was… kinda borderline unethical with how they just ordered the crew to adapt the game without even providing them with reference material - and this was before the internet was as widely accessible.

[@kylejones8289]

They did do an adaptation of SA2 in issue 98, but it was basically just the opening of the game and a flashback story showing Maria's death. They adapted the rest of the story much later in flashbacks in Sonic Universe 2.

[@user-vb4jh1pp1o]

@@kylejones8289 well, yeah, they did SA2 opening… I just waited that after… we get other parts too. But I did forget about sonic universe! Thank you for a reminder!

[@connorbeith3232]

They started adapting Sonic Unleashed as well in the comic's final years.

[@foxonrye]

Imagine asking someone who their favorite sonic character is, and they respond with "Oh yeah it's got to be Charmy's Wife." I died on the pasty appropriate page tho. I wish my friends were as comedic and joked as much as myself so I had conversations like you guys. *infatuation*

[@Night-Lord]

That Penders tweet makes me short of breath. It’s genuinely funny that he thinks anyone remembers or cares about Shade.

[@ligtningdog6399]

That's not even the worst. It's just the tip of the shit-iceberg.

[@Shaddytheguy]

Well, some people do. Just not anyone that would be useful to Penders.

[@Night-Lord]

@@Shaddytheguy that’s a very unfortunate opinion

[@seacliff217]

Archie Sonic Comics are a fantasic case study on a multimedia video game franchise where gameplay came before the storyline. If you view the first few issues from the lens of someone who only played the Sega Genesis games, many of the worldbuilding and narrative choices of Archie make a lot of sense. But as the games evolved and showcased a world that was very different from Archie comics, you can tell many headaches were endured while trying to make every explanation possible. Such as why Station Square exists in a post-apocalipic world, every character redesign, or trying to justify the existence of the many OG characters when characters from the games could easily take their roles.

[@unofficial_computer]

12:38 Genuinely thought that said Morbius.

[@aaamogusthespiderever2566]

Tails! Stand back, I’m going to morb!

[@scaredstiff7176]

I remember I went back to read some of the first issues of the comics, and on the fanart page there was a kid from my town who sent in fanart. I don't live in a city or a highly populated area either so I was pretty shocked to see it. He was 11 at the time so I'm pretty sure he's like 38 or something now. Pretty cool but its also weird how they just tell people these kid's names and where they live.

[@XenoJehuty84]

The Archive comics may have been weird, but they en dured for over 24yrs for good reason. Even through the Dork and Dark Ages of parts of their history; it was good stuff for those of us who grew up with it. Those of us who were fans of the SatAM cartoon, and wanted more. We got more, and for every misstep or botched art, those of us who stuck around were rewarded more often than not. It's a shame Archie, Ken Penders and Sega themselves let it collapse.

[@harley8047]

1:23 Hey! So that's where the guy who made Mike and Melissa got their art style!

[@thegayghost872]

These comics are amazing and I love seeing people get exposed to them for the first time

[@ChaoGuy2006]

Would love to see this again with more cool and weird moments from comics new and old. Checking out the rest of your content now

[@tntsonic7482]

I gotta say these comics were batshit insane but I loved them. Please do a part 2.