Sonic Unleashed (Part 2) - Sonic Was Always Good

Working on this video I got to thinking, the QTEs are obviously here because there's a lot of QTEs in God of War. And that makes me wonder if the QTE-like gameplay of the boost was influenced by that. You know, you do big flashy cool stuff, but it ultimately is just you pressing the buttons the game tells you to. And I wonder if the lack of platforming is because you do lots of platforming as the Werehog. If that's the case, then this direction for Sonic gameplay that we've been stuck with ever since is God of War's fault. Please stop having Sonic be something you were copying that has nothing to do with Sonic.
If you want some more insight into my thoughts on action games, I did some videos on the games God Hand and Samurai Jack Battle Through Time. Those are real action games. If you want to see games with actual combat, check out my videos on those.
Here's the link to my spreadsheet of Sonic mods. docs.google.co...
You can support me here if you want. ko-fi.com/pari...

[@Pariah6950]

Another structural problem I forgot about. It can be very unclear what is a mandatory level and what isn't. For a new player, this can easily result in doing extra acts thinking they will progress things, when they don't. Which isn't the worst problem on its own, but combined with some of these being Werehog levels player probably don't want to do, it can harm the game even more.

[@joshwillcox7141]

Nice critique but I will always stand by the wii version definitely being superior in almost every way, including how they handled the werehog: more platforming focus, a block that is still useful but not broken as you'll still take some damage... I'd really like to hear you're thoughts on the differences as the Unwiished is my 3rd favorite sonic game behind '06 and heroes.

[@ChaosAngelZero]

Okay, I played the PlayStation 2 version of this game many years ago and remember not thinking much of it, it was okay-ish, very average. Now I got the Xbox 360 version with all of its DLC, and the "Werehog" stages are a fucking SIN against humanity. The camera! I can't see shit half of the time due to it doing whatever the hell it wants, constantly going from a fully controllable camera to a God of War-esque fixed perspective, objects and walls obscuring my view, and it getting stuck in small spaces. The enemies! They attack even from off-screen despite the game not featuring an enemy radar like God Hand, and attacks don't land on those goddamn wasps despite clearly making contact with them. The controls! I can't turn Sonic 180° on the spot to navigate retardedly tiny platforms, I need to jump in place in order to reorient myself and go where I have to, on top of having to constantly compensate for the fucking camera angle changing mid-jump and shit. And they're also inconsistent, in order to move faster you hold down the dash button, but in order to climb faster you have to push up and press the jump button instead. And the grinding, and the frame rate!! And of course there's the music, but that I can fix by simply muting the game. Lord... this entire shitshow is a 1/5. I'm committed to at least beating it and seeing it to the end, but man...

[@KennytheHedgehog619]

Secret Rings anyone?

[@arjunmenon1796]

@OctoOOZ We'll, enjoyment is the main point of video games. So you can't really be "blinded" by it. Unless your denying like glitches or areas of improvement

[@kinggalactix]

Honestly, I would totally agree with you... if it wasn't for the fact that extra levels are available only *after* completing the main levels. A good example is when you play Cool Edge Day, Act 1 for the first time. The 2nd Act isn't playable until after you complete the main stages. I'm not sure where that idea popped up from. All I know is Sonic Team already solved the criticism you had, most likely before release.

[@rollbustah]

This has been said a million times, but I really love that Eggman finally succeeds in building Eggmanland and it's absolutely brutal and causes the most suffering in the series for both Sonic and the players. Very very fitting lore to gameplay connectivity.

[@Laekith]

Stretchy limbs are cool

[@Laekith]

Also I feel like an insane person for actually enjoying the medal collecting

[@DonutSwordsman]

monkey d. Sonic

[@bottomtext593]

THE MASTER EMERAAAAAALD.... THE MASTER EMERALD IS REAAAAAAAL!!! (can we get much faster?)

[@DLGanimator]

@@Laekith I enjoy it as well. I think it makes the werehog so much more fun, cuz' you get a reason to explore these stages and it always feels so satisfying to just say: Hey, could this spot have a medal? And then you see it has a medal. Also, just to clarify, I enjoy the werehog.

[@12338553]

Yes. Just yes

[@thetbhresistance7042]

About your theory in the description on the boost gameplay not having that much actual platforming being because the werehog had slower paced gameplay and so much platforming already, the devs have explicitly stated in interviews that the Werehog was made after they already dabbled in making the first set of boost stages as a way to leverage their assets, in fact. If you look at the E3 builds of Unleashed and look at the Werehog gameplay there, you can notice many differences to the final version, whereas the Sonic gameplay is pretty much the same with minor differences at that point. Almost like the Werehog was made later than the boost gameplay

[@Pariah6950]

Interesting. But I wonder about that. The Werehog must have already been a thing during pre-production. It's too integral to the game's story theming to be a late addition.

[@ChaddyFantome]

@@Pariah6950 I remember reading in a guide that the werehog concept was actually part of the basis of the entire game and was based on a doodle one of the devs did of a werewolf Sonic, so the concept of Sonic becoming the Werehog was definitely there since basically the inception. So the idea of having to use it to shore up the game time itself also had to basically be from more or less the beginning of the conceptual stages of the game. Oh mayhaps, the werehog simply started as just platforming and the **combat** was what was added later on to pad it out. Interesting to think about.

[@Canalbiruta]

To be honest i never felt that bad about playing werehog stages. There are so many cool ideas in the platforming department utilizing not only werehog's abilities but also the setting and themes of the levels that i was constantly looking forward for the next werehog stage to have fun with the level design. I'd say the only time i felt bored playing unleashed was flight stages cuz these feel like hours on end with no fun to have (at least for me). Hence why unleashed is my favorite 3d sonic game, cuz i love both day and night stages and can comeback for them to have a blast.

[@TripleJump]

I can't wait for him to cover my favourite game of all time, Sonic UnWiished.

[@pokemaster374]

I liked the werehog stages, for me it was the first time actually exploring the levels with sonic cause, you know, always running. Also the game design on the wii was slightly different to where it encouraged speed running in the day time and combat scores at night

[@evdestroy5304]

That's still how it is in HD

[@legoboy7107]

And also a bit of speedrunning in the night stages too, because on Wii they're much shorter, and so you have a timer like a normal Sonic stage and have to beat them in a certain amount of time to get the S rank, in addition to having to get a certain minimum score and ring count. Honestly kinda fun.

[@JustJohn43]

I think the medal progression is still a problem even when you go in knowing about them. The huge jump in requirement for Adabat is insane

[@jammychoo]

I remember that being such a problem for me on my first playthrough. I ended up needing like 32 or something because I forgot about medals 💀

[@Kebab0960]

on my first playthough i had to get like 40 something to unlock jungle joyride act 1

[@mrbanks456]

It's not a problem if you just, y'know, get them.

[@SuperChrim]

I really love Eggmanland as a stage. Not only because I think hard stages are fun, but because I feel that there is a mystique when it comes to games or levels that are "infamous" for being ridiculously hard. I get a sense of satisfaction when I know I've conquered something that many others suffered through. Honestly, that same curiosity is was lead me to trying games like Secret Rings and 06 and Unleashed, because of their negative reputation. It's an amazing feeling when I say that Eggmanland is one of my favorite stages and the looks I get from others who are in disbelief. And then I can pop the stage in and complete it in under 15 minutes with no deaths.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

I still take an hour to beat it but I love the absolute unrelenting gauntlet that is Eggmanland. It feels like the final exam of the boost games.

[@Gnidel]

I think easy Eggmanland wouldn't be the same from narrative standpoint. It's the realization of Eggman's dreams!... and Sonic's nightmares. If it's a nightmare even in terms of difficulty, then it's even better.

[@AndrewAndroid1]

Why do you keep calling the coins wumpa fruit? This isn't a mario game

[@miqwerty]

It really is the ultimate irony that the 3D boost gameplay debuted in this game. Not only do boost levels eat thru assets more than most Sonic gameplay styles so they basically *had* to tack on at least one ill-conceived side mode to make it longer than a nap but it's just a comical point of comparison to see Sonic tearing through stages and enemies during the day only to slog through half hour stages and endlessly wail on the same handful of enemies at night.

[@Pariah6950]

That's a thing I'm gonna talk about in the story. The Werehog is this big burly tough Sonic that' supposed to be all strong. But in every respect he's weaker than default Sonic. It's funny. And probably intentional. Fits thematically.

[@elibonham4388]

Slog is a stretch. Having fun, platforming and being emersed in a deep combat system is a better description.

[@Pariah6950]

@@elibonham4388 You should go play some real action games if you think this is deep combat.

[@elibonham4388]

@@Pariah6950 spiderman web of shadows is another really fun beat em up style game I suggest honestly that you try it out if you haven't already. The gameplay is fun, especially the web strike mechanic

[@elibonham4388]

@@JonJon98-fv4qx because i have played real action games

[@tadaokou4919]

I seriously can't wait for your Sonic Unleashed story video. Kinda funny, how the Werehog is not just a break in the pace while playing the game but also while watching your videos in chronological order. Not that this video is bad or anything like that, but the Werehog is just...sooooo uninteresting in my opinion.

[@Pariah6950]

That was intentional with this video. I wanted you to feel the boredom with extended amounts of uncut gameplay.

[@Voltricity435]

quick note: on teh werehog stages you actually don't have to spam qte's to get s ranks. when i run through the stages i just do them as fast as possible and only qte the 1 or 2 mini boss enemies in teh stage (the titan witht he club and the other one that spews out those dog enemies) and i get the S rank everytime

[@yikeyikeyike]

after watching these I really gotta say a big THANK YOU to emulation ppl, its insane how far 360 emulation has come in such a short time (possibly thanks to this game)

[@seematahir5970]

Feel like you answered your own question. Sonic Team has been pading out their games with strange gimmicks and alternate playstyles because the core Sonic gameplay has never been enough to really carry a game on its own, barring the classics. Hypothetically, if Unleashed had double the boost stages, no werehog, and no medal collecting, it would've still involved more money and resource investment, and likely would've ended up no more than 5-6 hours long. I'd be willing to pay $60 for that, but I doubt the casual market would've, especially given the time gap. There's no way SEGA wouldve been able to make the money back or compensate for the resource/time investment. They're a company at the end of the day, and it just wouldn't have been worth it. You pretty much said it during the Heroes vid. People just aren't satisfied with short but tight experiences anymore, and with Sonic's already soured reputation his games almost necessitated padding and artificial extending. Can't say I approve, but the needs of the casuals outweighs the needs of the diehards. Anyways thanks for reading, surprised you didn't mention Unleashed's graphics/music. I know most Sonic games tend to look and sound great, but Unleashed is WAY ahead of it's time in both regards. It just reeks of polish and effort.

[@spritvio639]

Sonic is so fast even the devs have a hard time keeping up with him.

[@halohunter1.081]

The Werehog is my guilty pleasure, I really love it, despite all the painful flaws, and it has been, and still is, my favorite game ever since it came out, but I can totally understand all the criticism it received.

[@CanalDoRyu]

Thank you for actually reviewing this game instead of just d*ckriding it like a lot of Sonic fans have been doing in the last couple of years. I have a theory that Rise of Lyric's combat was so bad it made the general standards of the Sonic fanbase get low enough that they started to look back at Unleashed and believed the Werehog's combat was great because at least it had combos, even though that's hardly anything special. As much as Frontiers' combat might be shallow, at the very least it was an attempt at making a Sonic-style combat, it maintains Sonic's fast-paced movement and fluidity, it wasn't just "hey, let's just rip off the most popular hack n slash game at the moment and call it a day" like it was with Unleashed.

[@alejandroaguilar2012]

Yeah but I actually enjoyed the game and I liked the werehog.

[@CanalDoRyu]

Good for you, keep enjoying it

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Agree

[@themissingbits6375]

I find it funny that we dont refer to the werehog as “Sonic”. If we Call Sonic(s) Wolf transformation “The werehog” we shall Call Normal Sonic “The hedgehog”

[@maomax8922]

That's a non issue, it's just used to differentiate the gameplay styles, no one understands if I say "Sonic's gameplay is very good but Sonic's sucks" doesn't make sense, even if I say werewolf sonic it's weird, it way more easy to call him as "the werehog" cause there is no other werehog.

[@gamanzhiydanil]

I like watching at werehog's animations, they definitely helped go through the levels. And the music is bop.

[@tonycorona8501]

If you hate the fact Unleashed is 70% Werehog, now imagine there is a section of the fanbase that thinks that just swapping the Werehog with Knuckles would fix the problem. Jesus Christ, no, you fools. Now you have casual gamers thinking Knuckles is awful for how boring his gameplay would be, and the hardcore fans would just want to return to his previous gameplay styles. The Werehog is just a flawed idea with a bad execution.

[@xraiderblack1850]

I'm not in favor of a second playstyle of Unleashed but I'll say this: Knuckles would have no reason to play exactly the Werehog. He's much faster, his arms don't stretch, he glides and can spindash, he would have a more varied moveset. And if you add in some upgrades, he'd maybe be worse than Sonic overall but he wouldn't be close to as bad as the Werehog is. Last thing, he could also be plot relevant because of the Master Emerald.

[@tonycorona8501]

I just think the Werehog was created s an excuse of the developers to have the player actually see the background. It is highly beautiful and the boost makes them difficult to see with how fast it is.

[@Ibalistic_hedge]

The werehog is an underrated gem. Honestly it would be a masterpiece if the werehog had a drop shadow.

[@kingsxvxntsxl]

I personally love the werehog stages and combat

[@cellperfecto421]

The reason why they experimented with so many gameplay formats despite the boost gameplay being very solid is that they need to justify the price of a Triple-A game. Since boost levels are so short and so hard to program (months of work for a level that lasts five minutes), Sonic Team feels that they need to add more stuff to the game so it doesn't feel too short. When you take into account the nightmare that was to make Sonic Heroes and Sonic 06, it makes sense as to why Modern Sonic games are structured this way. SEGA simply doesn't have enough human resources and money to make a full boost Sonic game, so they need to recycle levels or add another type of gameplay to make it work. From SEGA's perspective, it's not only extremely hard and time consuming to make Colors/Generations 2.0 every time, but also hard to market to an audience outside of Sonic fans. All this weird stuff we have seen since the early 2000s is simply a logistical choice and is usually based on marketing and trends of the time.

[@Pariah6950]

I know. It's the worst. I've ranted before on my Sonic videos how stretching out game length has hurt Sonic so many times.

[@cellperfecto421]

@@Pariah6950 Logistics was always the main difficulty to making a modern Sonic game, not lack of a solid gameplay despite what some people argue. Making 30 levels that last five minutes each with one of the more complex physics engines out there is almost impossible for a third-party developer. All the problems that Sonic Team has faced across the years come from that simple problem. They are not stupid: they don't ignore all the fans that have managed to replicate the boost gameplay in fangames. "How do you make a game that lasts 8 to 10 hours based on that? " is probably what Sonic Team members have been asking themselves for the last twenty years.

[@Voltricity435]

@@cellperfecto421 how do you feel about frontiers' length? sometimes the memory token requirements get higher then htey should but other then that and the few annoying required minigames on the islands i never felt like it was just padding itself out

[@cellperfecto421]

@@Voltricity435 I haven't played the game, but it feels and sounds very weird.

[@SaddieMoon]

14:19 Forget it being a Werehog game, this should’ve been a 3D Ristar game.

[@spritvio639]

Yo our boy Ristar against Dark Gaia, Dark Gaia stands no chance

[@unknownwill4th549]

Based

[@SaddieMoon]

@@unknownwill4th549 Thanks, Based

[@superromangaming]

To be honest, I actually want another Sonic Unleashed game. With Sonic going to new countries and getting a chance to play more of the Wherehog. So even though YOU don’t like the Wherehog, I’m totally fine with it and that’s ok because people have different opinions.

[@sanglish18]

Your video just showed how developers have nailed in making the player feel "the difference is day and night"

[@TheDiego908]

The Virgin "Oh, you just want Sonic to be one thing" vs the Chad "Yes, yes I do, I want Sonic to be one thing: the thing it is, the thing it's best at. Because literally every single time it's tried to do something else I think it's been for the worse"

[@Voltricity435]

i would like to defend the werehog's stage lenght by saying that if you know waht you're doing you can finish most of these stages within 6-7 min but there lies the issue, if you know what you're doing. first playthroughs are definitely gonna take longer then that. my first time i took a good 15-20 min per werehog levels. the saving grace for me is that i found the werehog fun enough where i don't mind it that much. unleashed is still my 2nd favorite sonic game

[@andarilho_31]

Yeah exactly. The Werehog takes a long time to master and until then, it's reaaaaly boring.

[@spritvio639]

What's your first SA2?

[@Voltricity435]

@@spritvio639 haha bingo. and for anyone wondering my 3rd favorite is s3k

[@pengeibro7548]

That's the shit I wanted out of the werehog too, when I watched the Werehog in cutscenes. Just a fun platformer utilising the stretchy arms mechanic. The cutscenes made the werehog look more fun than he actually is. Oh. And I remember dropping the game for a year when I saw I had to collect over 100 medals or some shit, when I was a kid. Then I dropped the game for another year because I couldn't beat Eggmanland, came back, and dropped the game for another 7 months or something because of the final boss 😅. Sonic Unleashed is legitimately the longest time it took me to beat a game.

[@pengeibro7548]

I'm not kidding when I say seeing that I need to collect over 100 medals was the most discouraged I've ever felt at continuing to play a game. I wasn't even intending to come back.

[@MarkerMurker]

I don't want to assume we're getting an analysis of the PS2 version's gameplay the way you did here, but that would be really nice. I love your work

[@WaggishZX]

can't wait for the god of war review

[@SaddieMoon]

I think the best way to improve the HotDog missions is to kinda work them like an achievement system. You automatically complete the challenge if you already done it in the level. Either that, or have the level immediately end if you completed a designated challenge.

[@hattoripool1533]

You know I kinda wish we got a sort of Encore mode for this game that showed how the other Sonic characters dealt with the Dark Gaia stuff at Night during the events of the game or show us what the beginning of the game looked like from their perspective when the planet was literally put into pieces and was floating

[@murdcrockdolphin]

If we get a good Unleashed remaster in the future, then this would be a really cool addition to the game.

[@tonycorona8501]

@@murdcrockdolphin I doubt it could happen in that scenario, but maaaybe as promotional stories outside the Game.

[@murdcrockdolphin]

@@tonycorona8501 True, like promotional comics or animated shorts (or hell even both) could definitely work as well.

[@spritvio639]

Well, look at the bright side Pariah. Sonic Team actually learned thier lesson going to Colors and Generations. Then spent the rest of the decade stumbling over themselves....

[@jonnysac77]

As a fan of action games, Werehog is alright, the platforming can be pretty fun and the combat has more to it than I ever would've expected even if it's still not great, although after beating this game, whenever I boot it up, I'm going immediately to the daytime stages, no question

[@senranalt9361]

For me, it's not the fact that they added spectacle fighter gameplay to a Sonic game in itself that's the issue (though I still think Sega shouldn't have done that regardless), but rather, they added spectacle fighter gameplay that's half-baked and undercooked to the point that the Werehog is vastly out-competed by its action game inspirations. With so many rinse-and-repeat battle formulas and little-to-no incentive to engage in the combo system beyond intrinsic satisfaction (since the night level S-ranks discourage using combos at all due to the QTE finishers giving bigger point bonuses), the Werehog becomes stale really fast and completely falls flat as a viable Sonic gameplay alternative.

[@Don-po6ez]

People gaslight themselves into liking the werehog without even realizing it

[@AYTM1200]

No.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Agree

[@Vadim_Slastihin]

Ikr? This amount of pure copium...

[@cypher838]

I thought werehog was just kinda decent. You have 10/10 game during they day that turns into a 6/10 at nighttime

[@legoboy7107]

Dang, your very harsh descriptions of the Werehog in this game are really making me appreciate the Wii version of Unleashed much more just by listening to this. I've recently started playing through UnWiished for the very first time ever (found a copy in the back of my uncle's collection of a bajillion random old Wii games that was probably never played, and he let me borrow it), having never played Unleashed HD since I don't have anything it released on, and honestly, I've been having a blast, not only with the daytime stages, but also with the nighttime stages tbh, I'm honestly finding them almost as fun (particularly playing it today after learning that Sonic will just automatically grab poles and stuff with his arms if you hold the X button and that you don't have to actually time it, thanks a lot for mentioning that in this video since it also applies on Wii, that's a game-changer). I don't know what your verdict on the Unwiished nighttime stages is going to be, but from what you've described in this video it seems almost completely different outside of the same general concept. In Unwiished, at least so far, not only are the levels much shorter (since there's 3 of them per continent it's still about the same amount of werehog gameplay I guess, but breaking it up into 3 shorter levels makes it much more enjoyable to me than if it were 1 long level per continent), but they also seem to have a much different balance of platforming and combat than what you described here. It's more of a simple light linear platformer/exploration game with enemy combat sections sprinkled throughout rather than an overwhelmingly combat-heavy game with a bajillion enemies, and it's pretty enjoyable to me. Only complaint I have really is that I wish the character movement was just a bit more polished, it lacks the precision and responsiveness of say a Mario game (which I think the werehog in Unwiished is much more comparable to than it is to a normal Sonic game), that's kinda it so far, though I guess I'll have to see what happens later into the game. Way better to me than the monstrosity you described the HD version to be in this video.

[@thetruej7872]

Sonic Unleashed in my opinion is still one of the best Sonic games of all time. Not just for Modern Sonic, all of Sonic.

[@Rimeruu]

I managed to complete this game 100%, got platinum on PS3, found it a fun experience all the way through (even with the framerate all over the place)

[@Itz_Kwame]

Finally someone who’s got standards with combat games

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Yep

[@snakey888]

To be fair, the speed gameplay in sa2 isn't really 1/3rd either, at least in terms of playtime. Mech shooting and especially the treasure hunting can and will take way more time, particularly for a new player, than the speed stages will.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Yep!

[@shaankelly1302]

Ty finally saying that its like 80/20 werehog. They're too long. You make them just 5 mins each and its not nearly as bad. I mightve liked the game as i said in the comments of part 1 if this simple change was made. Bc i like everything about unleashed aside from this and the medals. Which is just asinine. In a game about going 300mph making you stop to explore linear hallways for medals is a terrible idea and they shouldve been just regulated to the nighttime stages

[@strawbebby8509]

Congrats on reaching 100 videos I can’t believe I’ve watched most of them

[@greenhillnerdnew8148]

"you have to endure the poopy stuff" * downloads a 100% save file and plays the cool shit only

[@quasar4780]

This video is a bit funny to me, because I originally bought the PS2 version because I wanted to play the night stages lol. It has been a long time since I played Unleashed so my memories might be wrong, but even if the PS2 version is not the "definitive" version of this game, I think it is better than the Xbox versions because it doesn't share many of the problems the night stages have. In the PS2, the werehog is faster when running and the levels are a bit sorter and more opened which makes the platform sections a bit more enjoyable, you don't have invincibility when you use the unleashed meter, there's no QTE bullshit in combats (except in bosses), the exp automatically flies to you (I think?), and you don't actually have to collect the medals in the levels, because in both day and night stages, they're tied to your rank, so getting an S gives you 3 medals, an A or B gives 2, etc, which honestly gives you a really good reason to get better at the game. Another thing is that eggmanland in the PS2 version has its day and night gameplays separated into their own levels, which honestly is really nice because eggmanland was fucking hard. Also, the hub worlds in the pS2 versions are just glorified menus with the characters talking from time to time. I don't mind that, it means I can play the game sooner. I know most of these are just quality of life improvements, but with shorter levels and less cumbersome controls, I almost always got A or S ranks on my first try in the night stages. And I must admit, I don't know if it's because it's the PS2 version or if I'm a freak, but I liked the night stages more than the day stages. I think it's because the port was made by a diffrent team if I recall correctly, so they've redone some of the levels, which would explain why I disliked most of the day stages, idk...

[@legoboy7107]

As someone who just recently has been playing the Wii version (which is just the PS2 version but better) for the first time and hasn't played the HD version since I have nothing to play it on, yeah I agree with you, so far the nighttime stages don't really have a lot of the problems Pariah described here with the HD version, at least to me, and I've been finding them quite enjoyable so far, almost as much as the daytime stages tbh (which I do love, they play very differently from regular Sonic boost games, but for what they are I personally think the Wii daytime stages are really fun). And also, they didn't "redo" just some of the levels, literally every single level in the Wii/PS2 version is completely different and unique from the HD version, there are no shared levels outside of the theming as far as I'm aware, it's basically a completely different game just with the same title, story, soundtrack, and general concept.

[@quasar4780]

@@legoboy7107 It's really funny that the Xobox "definitive" version is the one with the most problems, and the ports made by the B-team is the better one. But what are the differences between the Wii and PS2 versions ?

[@legoboy7107]

@@quasar4780 The Wii version has slightly better visuals. I'd imagine it also probably performs better. That's probably about it.

[@zeer0629]

Would love to see you do a tier list on these sonic games once the dust has settled

[@penguinlord9984]

I find it really strange how the night time stages are just kind of whatever when it comes to the level design (especially skyscraper scamper Night act 1, what were they thinking?!) when there have been past examples of this gameplay style while the day time stages are designed better in my opinion when they didn’t have an example of a day time boost stage before (besides sonic rush, but that isn’t exactly one to one.) Sonic team is just really weird. Oh also this has nothing to do with the gameplay, just the level layout itself.

[@SaddieMoon]

S&M medals: I honestly enjoyed going out of my way with collecting them, but I fully agree with your criticism. Note: I did use a guide.

[@Cappsy]

Take a drink every time Pariah over talks his action game skills

[@Pariah6950]

Just wait until my eventual video where I talk about how I think Sekiro is easy lol.

[@Cappsy]

@@Pariah6950 I'll be there for it, lol

[@panos21sonic]

I just discovered your channel, and ooh boy ill always look forward to spending my free time here

[@kinggalactix]

After a year of thoughts, gameplay, and analyses of my own (on my own free time, for fun), I feel like it'd be a good time as ever to defend the Werehog gameplay. I respect your opinions, Pariah695, but I'm not going to always agree with them. Some points I do agree with, that hinder the gameplay. Others are more subjective to your and my own tastes in gameplay. And very few sound like misconceptions or even misinformation. This "essay" isn't meant to convincing or forcing others to like the gameplay. This "essay" is made to: - Show strengths, weaknesses, and potential of the Werehog - Sqaush misconceptions about the gameplay. - Show the depth of the combat system, enemies, etc. that was implemented by SEGA (and what could hold it back) - Add some ideas of my own (and a few of Cooliniau's) to improve what is already implemented. I'll be compiling my information and ready to add onto this message soon (heck, I might make my own video in the future). And as always, feel free to add your own input on the matter. ("Essay" is currently Work In Progress) Note: I am unfortunately not a combat connaiseur (besides playing a game of street fighter and a TMNT game), so I'm highly certain my points will be dismissed by a lot of people, including you. If you want to talk with someone more up to date, talk with @cooliniau (on Twitter) about the Werehog. He has played all flavours of combat from Final Fantasy to DMC, and everything in between. He's a lot better at discussing this than I am, and I'm certain you'd enjoy talking with him. Granted, I know both of you have much better things to do than talk about this (moderation when online is key). Either way, let's begin with the basics.

[@kinggalactix]

From what I know, around (4:49), you mentioned an issue with the combat moveset is that it doesn't offer much besides damage. While I can see why that'd be the case, it'd be fair to take a closer look. I agree that all attacks do damage (I mean, that's the point). However, quite a bunch of attacks serve some secondary abilities, which do more than just provide damage. Let's start with one of our beginning movesets: the *Rolling Kick Combo* - The moveset not only provides damage to enemies, but also knockback and stuns enemies in the vicinity. It's not that special, but when you're surrounded by groups of enemies, this is definitely beneficial to get them out of your way. - The same applies to the *Diving Bodypress*, which not only gives stun damage, but also works as a Guard Break move (self-explanatory), giving the player access to the enemy. - With one of our later moves, the Were-Rush, it provides Guard Break and Daze (which basically confuses the enemies for a short period of time). - An aspect I like about the minibosses is that utilizing these moves stun them for a very short time, so it does a short window of attacks with high risks and rewards. I do believe some moves can always be improved to be more varied and useful. For example, the Were-Cyclone could have the player move around while spinning for 3-4 seconds, funneling groups of enemies and throwing them out of the Cyclone. But they still hold their purposes and work well, especially when under attack.

[@kinggalactix]

When it comes down to the button mashing of the gameplay, I'd put it down to two statements. 1. Button mashing is a player-driven choice to not learn the combat. If you don't take the time to learn it, that's on you (plural). The exception is those who do learn the combat and use it to its fullest potential, so you're very much cool in my book if you do that. 2. The more notable issue is mainly the Strength upgrade. This is an unfortunate case, because it just make destroying enemies way to easy. Coupled with the Unleash meter, and you basically removes a lot of challenge in combat, at least for the earlier night levels. As you progress, enemies can and will give you more challenge, and just button mashing will not always get you the best results (especially in Jungle Joyride Night and Eggmanland).

[@kinggalactix]

In regards to the Strength Stat, there are a few ways to improve it, and make the gameplay fun and challenging at the same time (Note: each individual concept of improvement doesn't work individually, of course, and obviously should be added together. And again, these are ideas, so take them with a grain of salt). 1. (Cooliniau's idea, moderately paraphrased): Player Strength based on consecutive hits wiht varied moves. At most, you would be at Strength Level 3 when it comes to your base strength. The way you would build up your strength is by using your combos and playing well. Using the same attack repetitively delivers less damage, and more varied attacks leads to leads to more damage output. This goes for ANY attack. 2. (My idea): Player Strength partially tied to Unleash Bar. Once again, you are at a decent level of strength, but not excessively powerful at the beginning. As you attack more enemies and gain Gaia orbs, your strength steadily increases and becomes more effective. Once you reach your maximum, you have roughly 2/3s to 3/4s of your intended strength. Once you unleash your fury, you are delivering your full strength and might onto the enemies. And when it's depleted, you return to your default strength and restart the cycle. To balance that aspect, there will be slightly less Gaia Orbs delivered when an enemy is defeated. Thus, obtaining that full strength will be a bit of a challenge. The Strength issue is a very convoluted issue, and it's kinda hardfor me to make ideas for fixing it. I'd personally say to lower the strength stat or just remove it entirely.

[@kinggalactix]

Beyond the Strength upgrade, the movesets work pretty well as it does, and if you play with the base strength at the beginning, you will certainly find that you have to use A LOT of your moveset to succeed. My current playthrough is with only ugrading my combo skills, and I died in Savannah Citadel around 6 times due to me underutilizing my skills and underestimating the enemies. Speaking of which...

[@iamlordapollo]

I have such a fire take on the werehog my guy. Can't wait to hear your response. Let's start by agreeing that the werehog stages are basically the best "baby's first God of War clone" on the market. Just enough depth to keep pros from pulling their hair out, and simple enough for kids to button mash their way thru. I affectionately refer to these as the "Hog of war" gameplay. Solid B- no complaints mechanically. My take is based on the fact that a wide majority of the complaints are about them not being "Sonic-y" enough, and that they are mandatory to progress. My galaxy brain response is that if Sega had taken a leaf out of the Pokemon playbook and released Sonic Unleashed - Dawn, and Sonic Unleashed - Dusk as 2 separate versions of the same game, they could have increased profits to recoup the losses from 06, and reclaimed alot of the confidence the fans lost by releasing what many would call a perfect boost game immediately after the flop that was 06. If Dawn version had existed by itself without being held back by the fans mixed reaction to the hog of war gameplay, i feel very confident saying it would be regarded with the same reverence and respect that is used when discussing Generations. It may even end up eclipsing generations entirely since generations would not have had several consecutive mediocre games to set the bar low. Had it been divided into two separate games similar to the hero and dark stories in SA2, the Dusk version would serve to add additional content for hardcore fans as well as a different gameplay style. The Xbox 360 was more than capable of linking two games save data together for the purpose of extra rewards. Then, you had the option to play Dawn as a full game front to back with a decently satisfying ending, and stop right there. If you still wanted more, you could pick up Dusk version and get more story, as well as linking the two saves together for bonus power ups the more you played both games after linking them. After that, when both final bosses are beaten, it would unlock a "Last Story" segment that we sonic fans love having in our games. One ten minute level and super sonic boss fights later, and the story wraps everything up in a nice neat little bow, rewarding the player for buying, linking, playing, and finishing both games in a way that would make the Pokemon franchise eat their heart out. That's how you do linked saves between games with multiple versions. Sure, in all likelihood Dusk version would be criticized harshly and not sell as well, but as essentially an expansion of the real Sonic game that we're calling Dawn, it wouldn't even matter. Both halves of Unleashed could exist independently of each other, while still being directly relevant. It's the best of both worlds, both can stand on their own merit without either one getting in the other's way. Which would set up Dawn to be the amazing game it is, and put Dusk in a position where the complaints people have with it won't drag Dawn down with it, while also making Dawn an even better version of itself thru the bonuses unlocked by linking save data. Mic Drop

[@Pariah6950]

To start, I don't agree that there's enough to the Werehog to hold pros' interest. The gameplay itself I think is not that good. It's like Darksiders 1 level, which was too boring for me to finish. But as for your idea of splitting the game in two, you could just as easily do that by just splitting the game into 2 stories like SA2. I guess the reception of the game would still be harmed that way. But it's ultimately the same thing at the end of the day. Otherwise you'd get a well recieved Sonic game and a horribly panned spinoff that you need to buy if you want the true ending. People would not be happy about that. And there's the matter of the story. How on Earth would you tell this game's story when Day and Night are totally separate?

[@iamlordapollo]

@@Pariah6950 that's totally fine, you are likely far more versed in action games than I, so you would probably know better than I would. However, while I would never claim that it's legitimately good as action games go, I will absolutely double down on the phrase "baby's first action platformer." I think there are very few examples of God of war-like games that are kid friendly, and if they exist, I've never heard of them. And I work at a GameStop in Massachusetts lol so hearing about kids games for the purpose of selling them to their parents instead of the M rated actual god of war is what I do every single day. I've used unleashed as a substitute for God of war twice just this week when unsuspecting parents were returning a copy of Ragnarok that their 8 year old got as a gift. I guess my point is that I openly agree that the hog of war gameplay is aggressively mediocre, but I do see legitimate merit in that mediocrity as it's a gateway to masterpieces like DMC and Bayonetta when they grow up. I disagree vehemently that you could split the story of SA2 in the way I described. That would only serve to harm it's pacing and ruin the two sides of the coin thing the game has going on. That being said, Unleashed is an entirely different beast than SA2. I was hoping you would ask exactly how I would split them up, and I'm pleased that you did not disappoint. Let's start with Dawn. Since we're treating Dawn as the main title, the vast majority of the story is going to be told throughout this game, with no over world, no towns people missions, no camera stuff, and no level up system. You start off with day sonic having all his abilities, and his rings and speed are equal to what they are when you max level them IRL. You go from cutscene to day stage to boss fight, with no over world in between. The story can stay exactly the same, and whenever the plot requires the werehog to appear, you simply skip the level and use a short cutscene to explain what happened. For example, when you rescue professor pickle, you could cut directly from sonic opening the level to the scene where they find him and nothing changes at all. Nothing plot relevant ever happens within the stages, and you could cut around them effortlessly. Do a quick KZbin search for unleashed cutscenes and you will see for yourself that the levels exist to pad out game time that could have just as easily been off screen without harming the pacing or narrative at all. Keeping the werehog levels off screen for all of Dawn will also build intrigue while leaving it ambiguous for when Dusk does the same scene and you actually play the level instead of cutting straight to the professor. In conclusion, Dawn could tell the entire story of Unleashed, and cut past the hog of war gameplay without losing any plot relevant scenes. As for Dusk, it would tell all the main story beats that were in Dawn, only it would cut past the boost gameplay instead. The example that comes to mind is spagonia. The purpose of that level in the plot is that sonic is racing around the city looking for something/someone. Cutting from the realization that the thing is missing, to the scene of him on the tower looking around to find it would achieve the same narrative purpose without anything being lost. Since Dawn was a streamlined balls to the wall boost sonic bonanza without any of the open world content to interrupt the adrenaline rush, Dusk will go out of it's way to slow down and soak in those details that you were too excited to notice while boosting through Dawn's campaign. I'm talking hub worlds, villager missions, mini games, sky chase, stat leveling is back, and fuck it let's throw in a skill tree while we're at it. Shit dude, put Big in the hub worlds and go fishing who cares! This game is for the dedicated fans who want that juicy lore, world building, and character development. This is where you answer all the questions that the 10 year olds didn't notice or care about when they were ripping through Dawn Version and getting their first boner lmao. Once you link your data, that's when the two games synergize and add incentive to each other. The tens of thousands of rings you collect in Dawn can be used in Dusk to buy upgrades and additional experience, therefore significantly reducing the soul crushing experience grind. Some type of drop from enemies in Dusk can be used to unlock additional day stages in Dawn. I could go on forever about the endless possibilities (ahem). As for the last story, both games would play different versions of eggmanland, and finish with their half of the dark Gaia fight. Doing the whole switching between sonic and chip thing for thirty minutes for the entire fight is far more boring than it should be. Switching between kills the momentum so frequently it just gets tedious. So instead, you play as super sonic in Dawn, and watch chip fighting alongside you at the same time. In Dusk, you control chip's weird temple golem, and you can see AI super sonic buzzing around fighting with you at the same time instead of the tedious back and forth. Then, for the last story mission, we take a queue from Metroid, and have sonic power down to base form for an insane escape scene while golem chip creates an illusion of the werehog to guard him while he does his spell or something so you get to use the two gameplay styles you've been honing your skill for this entire time. To top it all off, the beauty of an escape scene being gated behind linked data as opposed to another level or boss fight, is that it has no impact on the plot. So you still get the full story by playing either game by itself, but also get rewarded with the most difficult challenge in both by linking them for the last story. I hear you asking, what's the reward for all of this? And to that I say beating the last story unlocks the ability to play both games at the same time instead of cutting away from levels that are not included in your version. It's hard to say how it would have impacted the franchise. However, if Dawn was marketed as the main title, and Dusk as more of an expansion or dlc, I don't believe for an instant that it would have been as harshly panned as it was. Just the daytime levels are legitimately a full high quality sonic game by themselves. Generations empirically proves it by having an almost identical amount of stages. Tack the hog of war stuff on there like a primitive expansion pack (cough S3&K cough) and that's a recipe for a masterpiece of a boost game that isn't held back by it's insistence on forcing you to engage with it's lackluster God of war cosplay just to get through the story.

[@xavierb.2378]

Relating back to sonic in the black knight, at the end where Amy is talking about her and sonics date, it actually is from this game. When Amy goes to shamar, you can offer to take her on a date

[@ScrapsandSlaps]

Now time for part 3 UnWiished

[@Gabriel-ri6rr]

It always surprises me how much people dislike the sun and moon medals system. Not to say that I love It, but I never really had a problem with it. Perhaps that's because I always loved so much about this game - the art style, the soundtrack... it was always (well, almost always) a joy to explore the stages, hub areas, etc. Anyway, great videos!

[@elibonham4388]

You can get sun and moon medals from professor pickle if you give him souvenirs. That along with the combination of exploring the stages extra acts and hub worlds for them. You should never have an issue with them. If they communicated the professor pickle part better to the player no one 2oulf have an issue with this. But honestly this game and sa2 are the best sonic games in my opinion.

[@Hectoreo]

"I'm using a mod to disable the battle music" Oh don't you worry. That shit is ingrained into my brain now.

[@lasercraft32]

I grew up with the Wii version... Man the Werehog levels were WAY different in the non-Wii version! Honestly, from what I've learned from various reviews and such, the Wii version has the better boost mechanics, while the regular version has the superior Werehog mechanics (as bad as it is... its WAY less interesting on the Wii version. All that speedy platforming stuff? You can't do that in the Wii version, its clunky and slow).

[@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel]

You're joking right? I played UnWiished and Daytime Sonic is nowhere near as good as you say! Because you can't turn while you're boosting(turning, not drifting), no matter what control you use and it's too heavy to control.

[@callinater6133]

@@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel That's the ENTIRE POINT. You're supposed to choose when to boost carefully in the wii version, and the game will punish you for spamming it without thinking. He probably considers this boosting system to be better because there is actual resource management and strategy here, whereas boost was practically unlimited in the HD version.

[@Farkonso]

To anyone who wants to give this game a shot - DO NOT PLAY ON A 360 OR PS3. I used to say "those versions are perfectly playable" but the frame skipping is so bad it's not fun to time attack levels when you can't see what's happening. The loading times are annoying too and there will even with missing floors and skipping music on rare occasions.

[@seematahir5970]

Wait so are you saying they should play UnWiished or that they should play HD Unleashed but on the Series S and X?

[@JoseGregorioValeroVillarroel]

​@@seematahir5970Yes, play HD Unleashed in Xbox Series X/S.

[@nightlydata2181]

I agree on ur point of "jus makes a sonic game" & ur absolutely correct in sayin this is done cus they feel the need to "Justify"(hate that word) a good amount of length in this game cus the daytime levels R so short(this has technically been a thing since Adv. 1 but the boost def makes it more obv despite there bein less gameplay styles between its' games which is ironic). However I'm also like u in that I look at a product for wut it is & this is my fav 3D sonic game werehog included. It's def a neutered down GoW but I'm fine wit that cus 1. I suck at GoW(& most action games) & this is a kids game so it can't be too hard aside from maybe some side missions. 2. I love jus usin the high breadth of combos both for fights & platformin. The werehog is prob the "best" side-gameplay in a Sonic game up to that point imo(I enjoy the others but only up to a point). The only thing I def think should be changed is the medal collectin, I think it would be best if the daytime stages worked like the wii version of the game. However even then on MY 1ST playthrough of unleashed I only ever had to backtrack ONCE the entire time & I didn't kno where all of them were & I think that's cus I'm the type to look around for collectibles in the diff stages/locations of any game so It was no hassle to me personally(the slowness of the werehog by comparison to the daytime also encourages me). Professor Pickle needin to be contacted several times unnecessarily is also fuckin annoyin but I can deal as long as I remember & ofc there's the imo "good" but ANNOYIN battle music u can't toggle on/off. I feel the mixed reviews it got at the time were slightly overblown but I do understand y they're there. I think a re-release that fixes or removes some of the annoyances(namely the BM, Pickle & the medals in daytime specifically) it'd get more positive reviews overall. edit: I forgot to say FUCK EGGMANLAND

[@NicolasMendoula]

Am I the only one who love the battle theme of the werehog ?

[@xhwh1138]

Eggmanland harkens back to Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 level difficulty. It’s amazing. Nothing compared to its sheer quality both before and after 3D sonic games.

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

Sonic 1 and 2 are nowhere near Eggmanland's difficulty.

[@callinater6133]

Sigh...people seriously overrate 'difficulty' like it inherently makes games better.

[@yunus8750]

While on the topic of action games: What are your thoughts on ''Transformers Devastation''?

[@Pariah6950]

Great game. Some problems, but really fun.

[@Nyaalexi]

I'll say it right now, I actually like Werehog. It's just quite a bit different from normal gameplay. It has its flaws, sure, like the battle music playing too much, and the levels being too long. Y'know... a port could really fix that! But anyways, where was I. I think the levels being easy makes this game very open to people who don't play these kinds of games. And I'm kinda one of those people. My favorite franchise is Sonic, after all. Why do you think I'm watching this. It's quite a bit of fun to learn how it works. But yeah, this style of gameplay gets bashed a lot, but I find it fun. The platforming elements are actually fun too, and it's also different from normal Sonic. The stretchy arms are a hella good time. I don't love it but I don't hate it, know what I mean? It's fun if you know how to have fun with it. But yeah, the levels definitely need to be shorter. Like, half and half. I get that they actually spent about half the time working on each, but yeah. I don't think it makes a lot of sense to make the day stages longer. But I know Sonic Team can do it. I don't mind the medal collecting. I never had an issue with that. I even started with the SD version, where medals are automatically collected by getting a good rank. I never had a problem with the XP either. Believe it or not, I actually like Eggmanland. It's a massive step up in difficulty, and that's a lot of fun. And because I actually like Werehog, I find it to be a good time. Could be made shorter though. The Tornado sections are alright. I find S-ranks to be a good time. I will agree that the missions are dumb though. But yeah, it is my belief that this is the best Sonic game. This game can be made better though, and it needs it.

[@bimonsmeen1687]

my favourite part of eggmanland was switching between the werehog and regular sonic. I remember beating it and being like, why aren't more levels like this. Id much rather have variations of pacing within one level the have one stupidly slow level. I still think full regular speed stages are amazing, but i would've liked to see more levels use eggmanland's switching formula.

[@Farkonso]

12:54 holy shit I wish I knew this for my play through. I've been away from home stuck with only a ps3 so decided to give the game a play through and the lag was so bad it was impossible to time grabs.

[@porygonlover322]

home stuck???

[@lawrenceboyd9341]

“Please, stop experimenting with weird dumb crap, stop shoving non-Sonic gameplay into Sonic, stop trend chasing, please just make a Sonic game, I beg of you.” Soooo, who wants to tell Pariah the next game is Sonic 4?

[@Pariah6950]

Ah, but you see, that is trend chasing. Clearly they wanted to imitate the massive success of the New Super Mario Bros. games. But here I go spoiling my future videos.

[@spritvio639]

@@Pariah6950 I guess that's the main problem at the end of the day. The developers just seem to say, let's make a sonic game....butttt with this (sword, guns, aliens, etc) to follow something.

[@lawrenceboyd9341]

@@Pariah6950 oh believe me I know. What I really meant is that it’s technically a Sonic game without gimmicks, so it’s like Sonic Team curled the monkey’s paw on you.

[@crimsonzone8984]

I swear silver was already a dumb random mechanic put into 06. Yet he stood out way better than the werehog. Maybe by giving him vergil's concentration gauge from dmc4 & 5, that could fix his gameplay which would allow him to either increase or decrease his range, speed, power and the usage of the meter depending on the player's performance.

[@triggerpigking3741]

Sonic Unleashed is one of my fav Sonic games, i was surprised how much I enjoyed it when i first tried it in 2022, and part of that is the werehog, hell i enjoy it almost as much as the daytime stages. To be fair it feels tailor made to me, I'm a 3d collectathon guy, i like replaying these levels to find everything, even in the boost ones(which to me feels no different then the red rings), to go for the best ranks, to see how fast i can get through them, the werehog when played efficiently is not just fast but i found it felt really free flowing. As someone who also adores games like DMC I'll def agree it's not as in depth as those games, but it's mixture of that and platforming kept it from becoming stale to me, i enjoy playing with the combos and encounters never last too long either so i'm right back onto the next platforming segment, with what i feel has some really solid exploration. I think my main beef with combat is how clunky and awful that dodge is to setup, i don't mind no s but i should'nt have to block first. Medal collection hasn't bothered me, tbh the game gives you half of them for free with some basic exploration around town, the boss level ones are a freebie and you don't need to explore much in the other levels to get enough. I also found Unleashed more difficult then most sonic games, meaning i had to put more time into S ranks and getting good. Eggman land should've come with a warning but man, i can't lie that it's one of the most hype moments in the series for me, it makes you put everything you've learned to the test. I also think Unleashed prob has the best bosses in the series as someone who wasn't much of a fan of the adventure formats bosses, they lean into Sonic's speed very well. Still if all you're looking for is a boost sonic game, i can def get the disappointment, but for me the sonic games which have played it safe like Colors usually ended up being the most stale as they don't really have much of an identity out of being just a sonic game to me. Even Mario loves to dabble with it's gimmicks, whether it be Odyssey's cap or Fludd.

[@DearMink_X]

They should've had the Werehog be sonic on a feral rampage. Still has fighting but you're mostly on all fours doing faster platforming and smashing through stuff.

[@SayuriSRC]

I was hoping you'd mention the De-Leveled mod! I shouldn't be surprised that you were pretty harsh on the werehog. With how much I've been seeing Unleashed, BOTH playable parts of the game, go through a renaissance of people loving it to death, it felt easy to forget that there's still a lot of problems with it, especially the werehog. I feel like I'm going crazy with how I usually dread thinking of replaying Unleashed, because of the werehog, meanwhile everyone around me seems to love the damn thing.

[@ehhorve857]

I'll make you feel insane: I hate the hedgehog levels, only like the werehog.

[@dylansurendranath3091]

​@@ehhorve857 You and ExoParadigmGamer would get along really well! 😅

[@Canalbiruta]

Lol, i adore the werehog stages and the medal collecting in them was so fun! But the requirements for adabat... Yeah that is a bunch of horseshit

[@ehhorve857]

@@dylansurendranath3091 yaaaaaaay :D

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Agree 👍

[@alexlee4154]

Holy crap that bulked health looks like torture.

[@S.omeone618]

Pariah what do you think is the right direction for 3D sonic?

[@Voltricity435]

a game that focuses on sonic gameplay and brings the classic gameplay in 3d as well as possible, with a world that looks similiar to the artstyle of the classics, with a story with the tone of sonic rush adventure

[@Phanton404]

You know I always wonder why people mention the Wii version of this game but seeing how this one appears to have way more content despite the alleged framedrops issue I can see why now

[@Phanton404]

ah, commented to fast. There is an Eggmanland Day in the wii version (my favorite stage) so maybe there are more differences than that between the versions and now i do really wonder why nobody talks about it

[@SaddieMoon]

13:21 “God damn it”, you always find a way to increase a Sonic game’s speed.

[@giannicayon2806]

I hate all the issues you pointed out as well Kinda weird how it's my favorite sonic game

[@BluStarDogger7490]

Could you please describe what you really mean by wanting the Sonic series to always be the same? Would you want it to be like the New Super Mario Bros. series or like continuing the core gameplay of the Sonic series since Sonic 1, just with new moves, like in the handheld games, and sometimes in 3D 'cause if they were to make a 3D Sonic game without the boost, I'd imagine the physics being based off of the 'Tony Hawk' franchise and maybe a bit of 'Super Monkey Ball'

[@runningoncylinders3829]

Yes! Passive achievements/challenges to save time and not snub those who got it any earlier are so much better than padding a game with do it again. Even Mobile games from my time like Angry Birds had a 3 Stars thing. Want to go for 3 stars, keep playing. Got only 1 and want to move on, go right ahead!

[@sandudelcea6707]

What do you think the next video will be ? Unwiished or unleashed story video ?

[@spritvio639]

Yay

[@TheFoxFromSplashMountain]

Love the Werehog, but I have never understood the stretchy arms thing. Like, it's just so random. Where in werewolf mythology does that come from?

[@maroonkennedy6213]

The stretchy arms are meant to mimic Kratos' Blades of Chaos

[@wynnwilson7385]

He has stretchy arms because dark Gaia can stretch

[@crustykeycap5670]

Because didn’t you know werehogs have stretch arms

[@Howardpower679]

Dark Gaia and it's Minnions does that

[@miqwerty]

I heard someone quote an interview that said something about how the werehog has that because it's supposed to be an inversion of Sonic's daytime form. Like Sonic's power lies entirely in his legs so they created the werehog to be all about using its arms. But I mean, it's not like Sonic normally can stretch his legs like Mr. Fantastic. Idk man

[@ultimateshadeofwar]

TL;DR a lot of why i like and why i think certain stuff happen regarding this era of Sonic in terms of gamedesign. It's so long this comment that this was necessary. I think this game is the perfect moment to bring on why i say that i like this era of Sonic the most and i don't think who is Sonic is lost on this era, first of all, it's my overall preference, which is while i like good games, but i also love good stories in any media, so because of that i can like more a bad game with a good/okay story, then an okay to boring game with a boring or just plain bad story. Second is that i grew up with mainly 3D platformers, so i enjoy then more then 2D platformers, and for inconsistant as Sonic can be, i enjoy more the heights of this era of Sonic(Sonic/Shadow gameplay on the adventure levels, Sonic Hero levels, Shadow the Hedgehog hard mode, Sonic '06 especially now with P-06, Sonic and the Secret Rings with all the upgrades unlocked and certain levels of Black Knights) then from Sonic Colors onwards, this doesn't mean this games are good or better in terms of quality, but i enjoy then more. Third, it's that in all of this games i can feel passion, now this doesn't fix then, this doesn't make then good, but that feel that's easy to feel on each of this games, very easily spreads through me giving me a good feeling... Doesn't fix then and i would never call then good, but to me this says that there is stuff that could be learn from then both the good and bad. And finally, it's that the moment i finished Generations i realize there were 2 paths for the boost gameplay, either it ends there and Sonic Team comes up with a new way to do Sonic, or it's burn to the ground until there is not much love for it, because we have already hit the gold mine with Unleashed. I will add one more thing, and it's related to why i say that i feel passion to this games compare to the modern ones, and it's not the lack of trust on Sonic himself, i think this is a misconstruction, i think the big problem is something that we still have to this day in the casual market of Videogames, because remember, while companies have to try to keep us the fans happy and buying there games (which whatever you think of this era of Sonic, you can't deny that Sonic lived through it, so the fan base it's had trust on it), they are also trying to get that casual market to becomes fans or buy the game, after all games are products and while passion, creativity and integrity matter, if no one buys it, then you just lose point period, and a problem we hear a lot still regarding games it's "This game takes this X hours to finish it(Not complete through they use this word too sometimes to describe it)" and whatever because of that is worth your money or not. The actual gamers don't care about the time, some care about whatever the game is good or bad, others care about whatever the game is fun or not, others care about both. But the casual market, well a lot of people won't be willing to drop certain amount of money on a game if it ends at 3 hours, i have heard a lot of casual people critize the time you take to finish a game regarding it's prize tag. And i think that's the problem with Sonic, they know finishing Sonic, probably the one they want to make with just Sonic levels, it's too short of a period, and adding extra characters to play with then it's not something the casual market as a whole would do, but just a few number not including the fans. And this is not including the problem that the appeal of Sonic on it's own, it's not world wide, i have heard a lot of people of casual people not liking 2D, but liking some of the 3D Sonic games even on the gamer area, and the ones they like well, lets say that with some of the following games to come i can make my point more clear. But when you have this in mind, well, suddenly you need something else to be able to sell a Sonic game, as such, you chase a trent try to make it, to try to make general public like the game, and hope they get hock up or like it enough for Sonic Team to say "this is the secondary thing we need to extend our games". And again, i will get to the future success, because they do still have this padding, just in a different way, and the ones liked by the general public well, they do have something in common that show less confidance in Sonic then this kind of padding had, where you at less felt passion on the not padding stuff. And i think there is only one more game, not counting Frontiers because i still have not had free time to buy it and try it, that still has passion in my opinion of the once to come after Unleashed from Sonic Team.

[@XTHHedgehog]

Finally, someone gets my issues with the werehog. I hear so many people talking about how the werehog is so fun to play, and I can't for the life of me figure out what the FUCK they're talking about. I found the werehog so boring and the levels way too long for how boring they were.

[@Hyp3rSonic]

Respectable

[@ChaddyFantome]

I was looking forward to this part in particular given your history with action games. I was more or less expecting you to say it wasn't that great but getting the nitty gritty is what i was mostly anticipating! Above anythign else, Unleashed greatest sin is absolutely the Medal collecting system by far. It's the one thing I find just straight up inexcusable independent of any personal feelings about certain aspects of the game. Was wondering when you were gonna mention the QTE spam in the werehog for ranks. THERE it is! I actually have a ton of respect for Eggmanland for being what it is. Not only do I agree with you about endgame needing to kick your ass a bit to really raise the tension, but also just from a lore standpoint, it's goddamn EggmanLand. The thing Eggman was trying to build since SA1! It being anything BUT a pain in the ass would actually be a disappointment.

[@chrisfarleyshrek4347]

This Sonic game aged the best and I wouldn't mind just a remaster or simple port if done properly. If they were to bring back Adventure 1, 2 and Heroes then those are due for remakes.

[@sebastianmartinez5963]

Oh, the Werehog, the most tedious Hack and Slash I've ever played in a videogame. Much of what you say is completely true and you explained well why you don't like playing Werehog levels. Honestly, I think a lot of fans overlook all of the Werehog's problems mainly because of story, music, CGI cutscenes and nostalgia (yep, nostalgia can make many overlook anything bad and remember that this game was the childhood of many sonic fans) In my opinion, the Werehog is okey but it's not something I want to play again, also, having played games like Bayonetta 3 and recently God of War Ragnarok, well, let's say the Werehog's combat doesn't attract my attention much, sorry.

[@paperprince2953]

I've been here since this released a minute ago and two views

[@BluStarDogger7490]

You know, I think you wanting Sonic to be the same is out of frustration for how the series handled the different gameplay styles and not hitting the nail on the head, and I agree to some degree; I don't like the mech stages of Adventure 2, I think the Werehog stages could've been shorter and the Werehog it self could've been faster in terms of... everything, but I also don't think that sticking to one thing would be beneficial for a number of reasons. And for things in lore like Knuckles not guarding the Master Emerald, would it be to hard to suspend your disbelief and assume that he sets up traps around the island; after all, in Sonic 3 and Knuckles, you do see him triggering traps in attempts to stop Sonic and Tails while he thought Eggman was the good guy. And about whether Sonic games should have a deep story or not; I don't see any more or less value about a blue hedgehog fighting an egg-shaped scientist with a big grin on his face in comparison to Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Spiderman, Batman, Super Mario, or Kirby. I'm not defending Sega and Sonic Team for not communicating with each other and their decisions but, I also don't think the fandom is right. The fanbase is a mess of "you should hire this man!", "this is how a sonic game should be", nostalgia blindness, wanting things from the past that they harshly rejected before, consideration, and some I think are just confused about the Sonic series at this point. I've said this many times before and I'll say it yet again; Sonic needs a reboot, and not just any reboot; a reboot to start over, a reboot that clarifies thing, a reboot that's faithful to the ORIGINAL JAPANESE version, and more importantly, a reboot that's consistent with its lore. Basically a do-over. But that's only a pipe dream for me for the Sonic series, what's your pipe dream for the Sonic series?

[@alexandrpeterberg390]

I would call Sonic Unleashed the game that did modern 3D Sonic justice. (if we ignore the werehog stages) Good fun gameplay, a decent story, and overall one of the prettiest-looking game. It's just the things that are not doing Sonic Unleashed any justice werehog stages themselves and the fact this game was never ported on PC. Sonic Team certainly knew what they were doing when designing the daytime stages and a new formula for 3D Sonic games. But yeah, Sonic Team is not an expert when it comes to designing action games like God of War, Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry, and other great games with combat mechanics. In fact, I'd say they have proven themselves that they are kinda amateurs in that regard. As for other problems of Sonic Unleashed that make the completion work more tedious, I don't know whether it was a lack of consideration, it's the fact that they didn't think this through, or just didn't have enough time to playtest to see if this works and doesn't hurt the experience. Let's be honest, when you see problems like these you were like "what were they thinking?" And lastly, it's a shame that the closest thing where the adventure-styled Sonic game that nearly revealed its true potential is Sonic 06. A game that was horribly rushed which resulted in colossal failure and cause Sonic Team to completely abandon the adventure-styled gameplay completely.

[@andersonsansonowski5644]

You are really good at action games lol

[@mrbanks456]

I think that comparing the Day stage and Night stage completion time is a little dishonest. The day stages have a lot of replay value and it takes a while to S rank them depending on how good you are, especially the DLC stages. I assume most people play the night stages once and replay the day stages a bunch. So how much time are you really putting into them? Now about how Professor Pickle works. The game wants you to visit him over and over again because it wants you to do his side missions. You give him souvenirs for hints and medals, and he replenishes your camera film.

[@henriquezioto8760]

Talking about shallow combat. Super Crush KO is an criminally underated 2d beat 'em up with great combat and sense of flow, the game is quite easy, but has a very fun and demanding ranking system.

[@otamanvasyl9949]

18:26 You should have say: "It's not Sonic the Hedgehog game, it's Sonic the Werehog game."

[@tonycorona8501]

I never got the love the Werehog got in the community, but I'm cynical. I just think it was a boring gameplay, and the story itself does nothing interesting with the idea for me to say "oh wow, I hope to see it again one day", with the only remarkable thing about it is how pure Sonic is to not be affected by Dark Gaia - but again, that's not interesting storytelling, just trivia. Nah, I'm glad it remained a one-game thing, and I wish Silver followed suit. But I'm getting ahead of myself since the story talk is for later.

[@seematahir5970]

Wouldn't say the community exactly "loves" the Werehog, most people are just more lenient towards it because of Unleashed's changing reception. It was never awful to begin with, just the idea being seen as gimmicky and dumb. I don't know what you mean about not "wanting him to come back" tho. A gimmick is a gimmick. They exist and are then abandoned, like Caliburn or team formations. The Werehog was what he was. He had a couple of decent story moments and tied into the themes of the game. He was mostly there to beef up the run time and leverage assets given how short and expensive the day stages are. I don't think anyone expected him to make a return, especially with how the story concluded. Also, what was the point of the jab at Silver? Not upset or anything just confused. Gameplay-wise he was kind of just there, it was mostly 06 being 06 that held him back. Narratively it would be a shame to never use a character as unique as him. It's not like the Sonic series particularly respects its characters roles anyway. Silver might be the least offensive example lol, he only really comes back in Forces.

[@tonycorona8501]

@@seematahir5970 I'm a bit petty regarding the character, I'll admit.

[@giannicayon2806]

I love rooftop run night near the end during the clock tower section but the rest of the level is just boring

[@itsyaboi6942]

You really did just skip talking about the E rank music while on about the ranking system 😔

[@Sydney_Angelyt]

I knew I needed to get medals, going out my way to scour through night time levels and still needed 14 medals to play jungle joyride day

[@Hyp3rSonic]

I'm here, ig. lmfao (Also, yes, i did edit this. I was just extremely exciting to see this)

[@joeybuddy96]

I think they wanted to do the knuckles chaotix / heroes thing with throwing your partner, but i guess this was easier.