Sony a7S III, FX3 Low Light Dual ISO EXPLAINED, How to Find It

[@TheDistanceDuo]

How on earth did we not know about this? Thank you soooo much Andrew!!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@tyler.t.seaman]

Very well explained, thanks for making this!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem, Tyler!

[@BlaineWestropp1]

Dual gain is a whole different ballgame than dual “native” ISOs. The Sony cameras have dual ISOs. Dual gain is something Arri and canon use and is different than dual native ISOs or dual ISOs.

[@andrewsaraceni]

You're referring to the DGO (dual gain output) tech the Canon and Arri sensors use? I had mostly classified dual ISO ~= dual gain ISO, and DGO in its own bucket entirely. The terms are ripe with conflation at this point, but there's definitely a difference between dual ISO vs. DGO vs. dual native, etc.

[@BlaineWestropp1]

@@andrewsaraceni yes it’s slightly confusing. Question for you, doesn’t Sony not officially claim that the a7siii and fx3 have dual native iso? Even though it’s clear that some magic happens at 12,800

[@andrewsaraceni]

Right, Sony's never advertised it as a feature, though most everyone who owns the camera's noticed it, and even some of the Sony ambassadors (e.g. Alister Chapman) have acknowledged it's a thing... But there's definitely a bit of secrecy in terms of how they achieve it.

[@mathieupsyche]

Thanks for the TIPS to find the dual ISO value !

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@mfkhometheater7742]

Good information, thanks!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@damancandance1]

Thanks Andrew clear and concise explanation

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@tshansen]

Really informative and well done video again mate. Just need to ask you a question again. I like to transfer my footage on SSD drives (Samsung T5) and then edit in Davinci of the SSD disk as main footage drive. Do I need to upgrade to a T7 or higher when shooting 264 in 4:2:2 10 bit with the new Sony a7s iii? Any thoughts on this? Cheers

[@andrewsaraceni]

Thanks (again)! I think in many cases it depends more on the CPU/GPU of your system, your NLE, etc. vs. SSD read/write speed after a certain point. I have a T5 now as an editing drive, and simple edits on H.264 10-bit 4:2:2 a7S III footage in FCPX work fine on my 2019 MBP, but if I start making layers or doing multicam, etc. I have to create proxies. Not to say a T7 might not offer some improvement, but it may not be an appreciable difference. Unless you own an M1 or another really powerful system, I would expect proxies to be a thing you'll need to do some of the time.

[@tshansen]

@@andrewsaraceni thank you so much for the detailed answer! I’m on a Max out iMac late 2019 with 64bg ram. Did try some sample footage i found online and edited 24, 60 and 120fps without any issues, but that was on the internat ssd. Just tought the external ssd could be a bottle neck when editing?

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem! It can be - internal SSD and a high throughput external SSD should provide pretty comparable performance though, from what I've found. I'd also definitely try shooting in all of the codecs (specifically XAVC S vs. XAVC S-I) to see what'll work best with your system.

[@SymonSaysTV]

I’m a recent A7s III owner and wether I shoot in Slog 3 or Cine4 and I have tones of noise in the image. So much so I can’t go above 400 ISO or it’s unusable to me. Can anyone tell me what causes this?

[@andrewsaraceni]

Would sound to me like you may be underexposing your shots - an absence of available light will be another big source of noise, regardless of ISO.

[@photosbyjames_]

i just got this camera! awesome video and well explained. i have a question though, does the base iso for the best noise control only relate to low light situations? or can i shoot in other values say during the day where theres plenty of light?

[@andrewsaraceni]

Thanks! The base/high ISO applies regardless of the lighting situation, it's just most noticeable in low light. But you could still get away with other ISOs in certain situations, especially depending on the picture profile.

[@vwrenn8016]

good stuff. Thanks. Simple rules to follow to keep it clean.

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem, I appreciate it!

[@jamiequinlan]

So I’m on a run and gun shoot and base ISO 800 is a little dark. Do I stick with it and increase exposure in post? Because this way I’m not technically exposing correctly in camera am I?

[@andrewsaraceni]

What camera? I'd bump up ISO either to the dual value or just slightly more, or open up your aperture if you can. Then you can cut down light using ND, shutter, etc. if needed.

[@7ictortan]

Learned something new ! Thank you!!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem, glad to hear this helped!

[@LadyFairChildVideo]

is there any reason to do base/dual isos , if you are confident in knowing your lighiting ratios, color theory aperture setting? shooting in low light , almost running out of light then all this becomes handy.

[@andrewsaraceni]

For shooting in log and especially depending on the camera (e.g. a7S III/FX3, FX6), it'd say it's important to know and keep in mind. You definitely have some latitude though with different camera models, picture profiles, etc.

[@njcimaging]

Does this work for the a6500 as well? if I do that same math for the a6500 in slog 2 base iso 800 it ends up being 64000 seems way too high. thanks for your help in advance

[@andrewsaraceni]

I actually used to own an a6500, unfortunately I don't think it has any sort of dual base ISO in the camera. If you're shooting log in that camera, I'd probably lean towards using the lowest ISO values you can, and adjust exposure around that.

[@njcimaging]

@@andrewsaraceni thanks. I appreciate it!

[@basilistitieh5862]

Dose the dual ISO only kicks in when filming in Slog and Cinetone? What happens if the camera in stranded pic profile?

[@andrewsaraceni]

It's the same thing for other gammas/PPs - you can use the same logic to find both the base and high ISO for those.

[@dannygrau2983]

I have a question I just bought the a7siii should the minimum iso be at 12,800 or should that be the maximum iso setting? I am shooting in slog 3.

[@andrewsaraceni]

I would use 12800 as your maximum/high ISO, and 640 would be your low/minimum.

[@andrechiew]

Thank you for the tips!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@antwanbankswilliams]

Great video 💯

[@andrewsaraceni]

Thanks Antwan!

[@ignitedvisuals]

For S-cinetone: should we then avoid anything over 100 and go directly to 2000 ?

[@andrewsaraceni]

I've found for most of the in-body color profiles (S-Cinetone included), ISO performance is still pretty clean between the base/high ISOs. Though you might want to avoid ISOs maybe 2/3 of a stop below the high ISO.

[@bradleyc6564]

Any knowledge to why the new FX3 update has it at 800 instead of 640?

[@andrewsaraceni]

Yeah it's definitely a bit confusing. The Cine EI modes are now 800 for the base, but Flexible ISO is still 640. Not sure why Sony changed it (maybe to align with the FX6's base in Cine EI).

[@gerrypi51]

Do the basic ISO values ​​apply to video and photos?

[@andrewsaraceni]

Yes, they're applicable to both, though it still depends on the PP you use.

[@jonathanblanckaert]

Why is the second base ISO of Slog3 on sony a7iv 3200 than?

[@andrewsaraceni]

Each Sony camera's base and high ISOs will vary (and the difference between them) - it depends on the sensor, etc.

[@Sakeeran4]

Great video , thanks ♥

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@davidjresce]

Soooo helpful!

[@andrewsaraceni]

Thanks David!

[@_onemorestep]

Thanks for sharing!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@ekphotography]

Is there anyway of turning off the internal noise reduction on either> FX3 here.

[@andrewsaraceni]

Unfortunately not, but you can get around it by recording ProRes RAW to an external recorder like the Atomos Ninja V, where it'll bypass the internal NR. Sony really should consider allowing it through a firmware update at some point though.

[@ah242]

what about sony a1 dual iso ? base iso 800, second one will be 4000 or 12800 ?

[@andrewsaraceni]

I don't have an a1 on-hand, but for S-Log3, I'm pretty sure it's 800 and 4000.

[@martinwoodfilms]

My footage at 12800 on the a7s iii slog3 looks super noisy for some reason. Did you change any of the PP8 settings?

[@andrewsaraceni]

No, just using PP8 as-is. I would definitely consider exposing 1 to 2 stops higher than usual in S-Log3. I have a recent video that talks about that more: kzbin.info/www/bejne/boLUgaymZsyJrNE

[@sstteevveenn77]

Thank u for those tips! For indoor low light situations, would you recommend going straight to 12800 ISO (in slog3) and using an ND filter to adjust exposure? Or is it best to just use a different PP like S-Cinetone? I find most of my low light situations are between 2000-6400 ISO and Slog 3 just looks very bad there

[@andrewsaraceni]

Yeah, for indoor/low light situations with S-Log2/3, exposing for the second ISO is a good approach to take, along with overexposing the image as well (i.e. 1-2 stops). I actually just shot a test video in S-Log3 ("The Arrival of Nelly") where I did just that; every indoor and night shot was exposed at 12800 ISO. That said, I think if you get in tough situations where you're in between ISOs or have to expose well above either of the base values, using an in-camera color/ready-to-go PP like S-Cinetone will give you a cleaner image by a fair amount.

[@chucklecorner0524]

​@@andrewsaraceni hi bro what is the dual NATIVE base isO of SONY A7III????

[@andrewsaraceni]

@@chucklecorner0524 I don't think the a7 III has a dual ISO, unfortunately. But you can get pretty clean shots into the low 1000s (I used to own one).

[@chucklecorner0524]

@@andrewsaraceni okay thanks.. i havr sony a7iv dual iso 800 and 3200 i just bought a7iii for back up and wonder if it has dual native iso. thank you

[@davidclein]

Thank you

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@bc_views]

Great video! I learned something and I have noticed the iso looks a bit nasty on other videos but was wandering why it looks so bad, now I see why. Got yourself a new subscribe here bro, if Im actually learning or enjoying content... Im subscribing! Keep it up.

[@andrewsaraceni]

Thanks for the sub! Yeah, if you're a bit under the second ISO value (or obviously in the much higher ranges), there's a significant difference in noise and image quality vs. using the actual base/dual gain values.

[@bc_views]

@@andrewsaraceni This helps. Im just about to pull the trigger on getting the FX3 instead of settling for the canon R5/6. Just loading up on information and this cleared up one of the few things I've seen in other videos.

[@xXxAmadeuzxXx]

​@@andrewsaracenican you just bump up the lens aperture or put nd filter?

[@andrewsaraceni]

@@xXxAmadeuzxXx That would also work to adjust exposure, but I'd still keep the dual ISOs in mind, especially when shooting in S-Log3.

[@gabysocine]

With S Cinetone at ISO 300 I had noise in the image, and I still don't know why. The measurement was fine.

[@andrewsaraceni]

This was with the a7S III? Regular shooting vs. S&Q, was it high frame rate? There's a few factors (beyond just bad/no/low light) that could contribute, but you should be able to get good shots at 300 ISO for S-Cinetone.

[@gabysocine]

@@andrewsaraceni 60fps

[@andrewsaraceni]

@@gabysocine Higher frame rates I've found can be a bit noisier (especially 120p), but shouldn't be bad at that ISO level. Any difference depending on the codec you use? e.g. XAVC S vs. HS vs. S-I, 8-bit vs. 10-bit, 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2, etc. That might be something to explore

[@gabysocine]

@@andrewsaraceni ty andrew! I used 4:2:2 10 bits xavc s 4k h264

[@andrewsaraceni]

@@gabysocine No problem, interesting because I basically use the same settings and don't have any issue at lower ISOs. Might be worth trying the other codecs/bitrates (keeping 10-bit, 4:2:2) to see if it fares any better in your case.

[@ToneyFranco]

ISO 6400 is okay? I didn’t see anything off looks okay to me

[@andrewsaraceni]

You're referring to S-Log3 specifically? You may be able to get away without too much noise at that ISO, but a lot of that will depend on how well your scene/shot is lit. For me, if I'm not strictly sticking to the base and dual ISO, for S-Log3 I try to go between 640 -

[@rich9785]

Thanks!!

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@qbukhari]

Thanks

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!

[@mujamajor]

DUAL GAIN ISO

[@andrewsaraceni]

One of the big reasons Sony's been great in low light.

[@EarlyDawnTravels]

Confusion. 🤯

[@andrewsaraceni]

Anything I can help answer? Once you find the base ISO, it's a pretty consistent process to find the higher/second one.

[@EarlyDawnTravels]

@@andrewsaraceni I shoot in Cine4 PP8 on Sony a7SIII

[@andrewsaraceni]

Just checked on my own a7S III...since Cine4 (on the a7S III) has a base ISO of 100, the second higher value would be 2000.

[@EarlyDawnTravels]

@@andrewsaraceni so I should never shoot over 2000? I had no idea this was such a math game lol. #rookiemove

[@EarlyDawnTravels]

And what about the ISO values between? Should I only be aiming for 100 or 2000?

[@TravelerWalk]

Thank you

[@andrewsaraceni]

No problem!