Sony Cine EI vs Flexible ISO

[@danep99]

This is the best and shortest example that I’ve seen that explains Cine EI. Thank you

[@blaspayri]

Did the cat enjoy the filming session? it was really very focused on maintaining its pose.

[@epaitor]

Hi, thanks for the video, I like how well you explain the difference between Cine EI and Flexible ISO. However, I am not sure if the conclusion you got at 3:07 is correct. As far as I can see, both at 1:41 and 3:07 you are at base ISO of 800. So that means that if you lower the exposure of the shot from 3:07, you should be able to get to the same image as in 1:41, as both have the same information (same f, same ISO, same shutter speed). However, I understand that the preview it shows on camera is different, which makes it difficult to see the final result you are looking for. Let me know if I understood it correctly :) Keep it on!

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

03:34 :)

[@blaspayri]

it is the first video I see that gives me a hint at understanding the Cine EI .... thank you for that. So I start to understand that even if you are filming at the base ISO of 800, you get a different result if you increase your aperture by two steps using Cine EI (with ISO EI reduced by 2 steps, and then you don't clip the highlights) or using flexible ISO (where the highlights get clipped). I don't understand how still ... but I understand the advantage of Cine EI.

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

the camera sensor has a fixed dynamic range and distribution of highlights and shadow ratio for the base iso . with CINE EI you can change the ratio between highlights and shadow.

[@angienatoyn]

Is Flexible ISO an automatic setting where the camera chooses the ISO for you?

[@ListenHereOldMan]

no, Flexible ISO just means you can change the ISO value yourself (or set it to auto, yes). The Cine EI modes lock you into 800 or 12800, for normal and low light, respectively. So it *isn't* "flexible" in that mode. It's confusing at first, not intuitive.

[@angienatoyn]

@@ListenHereOldMan Thank you for clarifying Jace ^_^

[@pedropoubel]

Question: Shooting in Flexibe ISO at the bases ISOs (800, 2500) gives you the same Dynamic Range and noise as in the CINE EI mode?

[@NARRASSAFilmes]

I wanna. Know it too

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

yes, provided you do not alter the EI in CINE EI

[@samuelcarvalho3466]

No it dont. If you're on low light conditions CINE EI 2500 can cause you problem with color noise in the shadows. CINE ei is just for controlled light situations for good secure exposures. If you are in low light situarions, pay attention to your iso and exposure.

[@coolpras26]

@@samuelcarvalho3466 Wrong. You clearly didn't understand the question. The dude simply asked if it's the same DR if you're using 800 base ISO while using flexible ISO mode vs using Cine EI mode. And the answer is a simple YES. There is ZERO difference in the modes if you're using properly exposing the image and using the base ISOs. The difference happens when you change the ISO. In Flexible ISO mode, it affects the DR as well as shifts the range, while in Cine EI mode, it only shifts the DR.

[@samuelcarvalho3466]

@@coolpras26 he asked about the noise too. Im talking about it. Search about it and see the tests.

[@streetlife20]

Couldn’t you just shoot at the base iso in flexible iso and over or underexpose? Depending on if your going for highlights or shadows

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

you get the whole dynamic range only at base iso , when middle grey is exposed correctly. over/ or under exposing may improve noise, but the dynamic range will be less

[@coolpras26]

@@thehumancamcorder9326 That doesn't make sense. And why wouldn't middle grey be exposed correctly if someone is shooting in Flexible ISO mode at ISO 800?? People have been doing it for YEARS until this new 'Cine EI' thing came about. Dynamic range depends on the ISO, not on how you expose it (using aperture, ND, light etc). If you're shooting ISO 800 using Cine EI, it is the exact same as shooting Flexible ISO at ISO 800. The only difference between the 2 modes is - In Cine EI, you can 'shift the DR' up and down, and in Flexible ISO mode. If you want more or less details or DR in either highlights or shadows, you change the ISO. Sure, this might take away some DR, but you CAN do that. That's how people have been working for years.

[@FauxxYT]

Thanks for making this video, it really helps demonstrate the difference!

[@Moment35mm]

Do you know the least noise-suppressed, most noise-suppressed ISO and maxiso when using Flexibleiso, cine s-log3 on Sony ac7r?

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

640

[@Mraz75]

thank you so much for sharing this..

[@powdermuaythai]

i like ur cat

[@MarkRay84]

800 in Cini EI and Flexible is the same. You didn't match everything at the base ISO.

[@coolpras26]

Tell me you don't know how to use log without telling me you don't know how to use Log. LMAO If you're using flexible ISO, why on earth would you stay at 800 while overexposing 2 stops? If you want similar dynamic range as Cine EI, you should actually adjust the ISO while using the Flexible ISO mode. That's the whole point.

[@gfuterfas]

Wait... This is a completely false comparison. You're comparing the 200iso Cine EI exposure @ f4 to the 800iso Flexible ISO exposure at f/4, instead of the Flexible ISO exposure set to 200iso @f/4. The point of Flexible ISO is to deliver to post footage that looks close to the LUT you used on set. So if I need 1600 iso to get the exposure on a scene, I don't want to trust Post to boost my Cine EI footage up a stop, because in Cine EI, it's going to show up very dark to the editor. I want the footage to pop up in the editor as I exposed it on my monitor on set with that LUT, and I'll handle the highlight protections on set. I'm not going to overexpose it two stops and then wonder why I don't have the same latitude as if I had exposed it properly.

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

the iso does not change in cine ei

[@thai_le_foto]

I don't get it still......how is this different than dropping the ISO or raising the ISO 1-2 stops in the flexible ISO(Normal). Except........at the 12800 dual base ISO....we can not drop the ISO 2 stops because it will ruin the image with noise. does this "lock" into 12800 ISO yet still lower it by 2 stops? Like cheating?

[@thehumancamcorder9326]

this camera offers maximum dynamic range only at the base iso; exposing to the right or to the left will cripple your dynamic range even if in some circumstance the image will have the same brightness. but exposure is not brightness! when you shoot in cine ei, you do not lose any of the dynamic range by modifying the exposure index, you just change the ratio between highlights and the shadows. while when you shoot in flexible iso, changing the iso value will cripple the dynamic not just modifying the ratio. HUUUUUUUUUUUge difference

[@thai_le_foto]

@@thehumancamcorder9326 Yeah so I actually put this to the test after talking to a few people and it not making sense. It ended up being 100% exactly the same dynamic range in both Cine EI and Flexible ISO when both set at the base ISOs, yet when requiring more light in situations where you are already at the widest aperture setting and can't go lower shutter speed, without any choice of external lights.....Cine EI destroyed the image while Flexible ISO gave a nearly clean image when forced to raise even up to 51200 ISO. Doing the same exposure in Cine EI only went so far because of physical limitations and then raising the rest in post (because even though the exposure and waveforms were matching, in post it was darker and more crushed) ended up getting 2-3x more grain and noise than the Flexible ISO. So I understand at the base ISOs the dynamic range is the most, but from what I've learned from hours of searching and talking to people about it and then doing actual testing side by side. It seems Cine EI was definitely the limiting factor and only useful for a fail safe if you absolutely don't want to be knocked off the base ISOs, which knock on wood, nearly never happens anyways. I actually was hoping for better results with what everyone was saying and raving about Cine EI, but actual results proved much much worse for this setting. So right now for un controlled lighting, Cine EI is extremely worse, but I have not done testing in controlled lighting to see if moving the dynamic range values would be better or the exact same when you have room to play with aperture and not already at the widest setting and limited. If in controlled situations I find side by side comparisons again showing it's better when you don't need to go higher than 800 or 12800....then that will be awesome and for sure more usable.

[@blaspayri]

@@thai_le_foto apparently (I have no direct experience) Cine EI works when you lower the EI ISO below the base value, and you should avoid going higher. So if you need to film at ISO 51200, you should use flexible ISO and avoid Cine EI. On the other hand, if you need something near 6400, it will be better to film at Cine EI with 12800 base ISO and reduce the EI and adjust the aperture. Mysteries of life.

[@maximecaron3133]

@@thehumancamcorder9326 thanks a lot the way you explain now make sense to me. How is the ratio changed, is it a different gamma curve for each Exposure index ?

[@DavisInDuval]

So would you say Cine Ei is best when you can control the lighting? @@thai_le_foto