SONY MEDIUM FORMAT CAMERA LEAKED!

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Chelsea & Tony Northrup discuss the rumors of the new Sony Alpha medium format mirrorless camera, with a BIGGER sensor than the Fujifilm GFX cameras. MORE megapixels, too, with up to 200 megapixels... and it has one more trick: A CURVED SENSOR!
We discuss the rumors, whether making a medium format camera in 2022 makes any sense, and what we think Sony might actually release.

[@TonyAndChelsea]

Go to squarespace.com/Chelsea & save 10% off your first website or domain with code “Chelsea"

[@maddawgzzzz]

Is code "Tony" 20%?

[@MadsPeterIversen]

The best way Sony can stand out with a medium format camera is to make it practical and light!

[@michaels5166]

Medium format and being light is not a thing, just like medium format and fast is not..at least not yet...

[@MK-bg9bj]

The best way Sony can stand out with a medium format camera is to release it on April, 1st.

[@ytr8989]

The Fujifilm GFX100S already established this segment of light medium format cameras. It works fairly good. The Leica S3 is also under 3 pounds. You wait for the next iPhone with the medium format sensor coming soon to Apple store.

[@matthewsequoyah2665]

No more RB67 please 😄

[@nickoutram6939]

@@ytr8989 Actually I would not be surprised if the iPhone introduced a new mode a little like 'panorama' that was able to stitch together a quilt of individual frames into a single multi-hundred megapixel image... It would only work for still subjects of course. In fact the LIDAR sensors/SW are already doing that in 3D...

[@alanpoelman4228]

I think you forgot to mention probably the most important part of a curved sensor: reducing the elements in a lens not to necessarily implement sharpness (as we have already reached a fairly good limit on that), but to reduce the size of these lenses and potentially the R&D cost filtering down to the retail cost as a result. Also interestingly... If these sensors are large enough and flat within the 35mm range, they could theoretically use an adapter for Sony's already established line up.

[@tubularificationed]

I think this wouldn't work out. A sensor can't be flat in the middle (35mm), and suddenly start bending forward only nearer to the edges. No optical lens design could support something that quirky. Either has to be all-flat, or all-curved, to be viable.

[@benjaminstutzman3171]

Not inconceivable that the lenses, having fewer elements to distort for flat sensors, would be less expensive, making the entire family of body and lenses on-par with the Fujifilm.

[@alanpoelman4228]

@@tubularificationed we shall see!

[@MartinGollery]

They did at about 4:30, and yes, the lenses could be cheaper, lighter and better!

[@ytr8989]

A curved sensor would give you a fish eye 👁 look at the world

[@NeilMendham]

Very good guys, great report out just in time for 1st April

[@legendp2011]

I know right……what a coincidence

[@georgefrench1907]

I hope T and C know they posted on March 31.

[@legendp2011]

@@georgefrench1907 says April 1st for me (although I am in Australia)

[@deputydd4364]

@@georgefrench1907 It was April 1st GMT when it went up. I even went and looked at SonyRumours then realised....

[@Zetaphotography]

Channel has become a bad joke

[@gaborszeleczki3635]

Fun fact: in astronomy the Schmidt telescope produces strongly curved fields (but with a huge FOV), and back in the film days astronomers solved this problem by putting the film on a curved surface. Nowadays when they want to use them with a (n obviously flat) digital sensor they put a corrector before the sensor.

[@maxdmachy]

Well there is the claim, curved sensors existed only in 2 dimensions . The Schmidt telescope clearly has a camera function. Which is more spectacular than the rumored design as the film was far bigger. So the channel does not do proper research. And they don't listen to the audience. Curved Sony sensors were discussed on the channel. And several people mentioned the Schmidt design there. Your name sounds familiar, did you also comment on the last curved post?

[@gaborszeleczki3635]

@@maxdmachy No, it wasn't me. Btw, just to give you an idea of the FOV: the largest Schmidt telescope in my country has 1800mm focal length, and with the newly added corrector it has roughly the same corrected FOV as a 400mm full frame telephoto lens. No wonder why this design is used mainly for surveys.

[@gaborszeleczki3635]

@everyday tenor I don't remember any company producing commercial Schmidt telescopes - are you sure it's not a Schmidt-Cassegrain?

[@maxdmachy]

@@gaborszeleczki3635 according to wikipedia there were several follow up products

[@maxdmachy]

@@gaborszeleczki3635 must be amazing machines! Can they be used for anything terrestrial?

[@Blizz4rd]

Sony could make a medium format camera, that finally has decent AF.

[@johnsoncityaerialphotograp7201]

Yesssss!!

[@telemaq76]

Especially the April 1st

[@legendp2011]

Does nobody check the date

[@Blizz4rd]

@@legendp2011 Regardless of the date a medium format Sony would be really great knowing their top tier sensors and game changer AF.

[@legendp2011]

@@Blizz4rd given its april 1st this is an april fools joke. As for sony making meduim format, i would prefer they focus on full frame, fuji made a a meduim format camera….. and we are still waiting on a fuji xh2. Splitting resources. With g master lenses the image quality of the a7riv is already top notch….. no its not phase one levels, but the profit margins are tiny at phase one levels.

[@robertbirnbach2312]

I have had several phase one cameras, it made sense at the time for my commercial studio. I really think the market for this is not dentists or enthusiasts I think it will really be aimed at high end commercial studios. I think it make sense for Sony to get into this game I would expect that it would really be about brand perception. s and not about making much of a profit on this line.I have always wondered why Phase did not think about actually making a better camera, many photographers use a phase back on a view camera to get the movements etc. Phase One bodies themselves are based on old Mamiya technology and really operate the same way an old medium format camera operated in the 90's. they make incredible capture devices but really bad cameras. .

[@telemaq76]

And I think it s April first today

[@zenfort]

Yeah I question the curved sensor in the medium/larger format camera space as I don’t think you could do tilt & shift with that format in the spaces that commercial/creative work would like it.

[@ryandodd8941]

There are way more dentists than there are high end commercial studios

[@deputydd4364]

Yep. April 1st.

[@krishary8775]

I just hope it won't come with anything close to phase one cost.

[@asparagoosagus5954]

There is something about the camera market that I think a lot of professionals like yourselves might overlook, the perspective of a hobbyist with money. Almost everyone these days has a smartphone with a great camera in it, right? So if someone is trying to justify to themselves spending money on another seperate camera, then that camera NEEDS to be better enough than the smartphone camera to justify buying it at all. Like its not really even about is it worth it for the price, but rather is this camera better enough to justify wanting to buy it at all. This is why I think it makes a ton of sense for the camera market to go higher and higher end, because the cameras have to be good enough for a non-professional to justify needing instead of just using their iphone. So therefore the higher-end the better. Tbh this was similar to the logic I used when i got my first interchangable lens camera. When I started looking into modern cameras i quickly realized that for most cameras under like $700 either my iphone camera already takes better shots or takes about as good of shots. so completely useless, why would I get a camera that wouldnt even be a good replacement for the smaller camera i carry everywhere? But then I realized that most cameras under $1000 only produce photos that can look a little bit better than my iphone, and I ended up spending more like $2000 because that was about the point where I felt like "ok this is so much better than what I could do with my iphone". But if it turned out that that point started at $3000 or $4000 then thats where I would have gone. But smartphone cameras are just going to keep getting better. Better sensors, better algorithms for the computational aspect, faster processors, etc. Eventually I'd guess that to a new hobbyist that any camera under $1500 wont take as good of shots as their iphone 17 or whatever phone... I think from this kind of perspective developing medium format cameras makes all the sense in the world for them, especially if they have the money to become the best at it

[@alexmiller6105]

Happy April Fool’s Day to you too. I read Andreas’ post and you’ve managed to turn a short speculative blog post into a 22 minutes video that I watched from end to end. You are both great entertainers. Some thoughts a bit different that most of the responses here. First, I’m a Sony A7R4 shooter with an A7RIII backup and have had all the A7Rs since the first one. At the time I was a Canon 5D Mark II shooter but had bought the NEX7 for travel and got the A7R to shoot landscapes with the Zeiss 55F1.8 and 35F2. I now have a full range of primes and zoom lenses and shoot portraits, landscapes, wildlife, still life, etc - not sports. I love the small size and huge resolution but wish that Sony had the handling of the Canon. I’ve also owned a Pentax 67 for decades with five prime lenses and rented Hasselblads and Mamiya RZ67s at Vistek in Toronto for many years. I love the look of 6x7 transparencies but the Sony A7R4 blows everything less than 8x10 away, is handholdable, light, unlimited image storage (compared to 8x10 film), far greater range of lenses, etc. Long before Sony blows mind boggling money on Medium Format I’d like them to give me stuff that’s already in my iPhone - GPS location, computational photography, instant upload to the cloud, panoramic shooting (give me back what my A7R2 had), object detection, AI driven processing of the image, etc. Oh, maybe I’ll just wait for the periscope iPhone 15 with 48mp sensors, 8K 120fps video, computational photography that will create far superior images to a mere 200mp Sony curved sensor shooting one frame at a time with one lens at a time…

[@Four1LF]

Large (or medium) format cameras are great for shooting large groups of people -like an audience or class pictures where you need high detail in case you want to zoom in and check out that small area and yet maintain the detail to recognize people.

[@ytr8989]

Fuji users will have to admit the GFX has a cropped sensor.

[@freetibet1000]

Hey wait a minute, isn’t it the first of April today? I’ve been fooled badly here! Hat off to Tony & Chelsea for it!

[@SW-Video]

I'm surprised the RYYB sensor filter technology used in Huawei and Autel Nano+/Lite drones that give such amazing detail and allow so much more light to reach the sensor. The little Nano+ camera is amazingly better than the 4/3 sensor in the Mavic 3.

[@maxbouvatte]

damn you guys are so good at talking about this stuff. Very clear and informative

[@clmims100]

Maybe my younger Photographer friends would spring for this, I shot hundreds of weddings with an RB67 and a Hasselblad. I followed your favorite camera recommendations and bought a Fuji X100F. It returned me to my 16 year old self with a Yashica Lynx 1.4. Small rangefinder like fixed lens camera. I can barely carry a Full Frame Sony and prime lenses. The X100 slings around my neck on a corded next strap. I use a high end 256 gig SanDisk and not run out of space, even shooting bracketed shots of tough lighting conditions. My use in the sixties of 8-10 and 11-14 film was the real peak of the contact print as a distribution element. I kept my M645 stuff waiting for a digital back. It came out and 10k was way to rich for this working man. The panoramic function of a iPhone is far better than the circuit film cameras I used in the late sixties. Those rotating lens setups were kinda soft. Only contact prints made them look good.

[@JoeElementz]

I think the price will be like the Hasselblad 907x very reachable for most. It is their first medium format camera they will need to make it accessible so possibly between 5 - 9k

[@joshmcdzz6925]

A good camera to sit in your bedroom, shoot a landscape photo with a wide angle lens through your window and crop in and still be at 50mpx. No need hiking but be a landscape shooter from your bedroom

[@goodeguy16]

Well Hassleblad just did it with the X2D 100C and it was a Sony sensor...interesting to see if Sony still comes out with their Medium format or even if Nikon does, since their new Z lens mount can fit a flat Medium format sensor vs. a curved one like Sony....interesting to see where all this goes. Great video and you guys where in the correct area of the Medium format, just interesting to see who else reveals their version, since Fuji + Hassleblad made their moves 🤔

[@rhysstatham7407]

Is it April first.

[@mikmop]

The most important thing to consider here is that Sony actually manufactures the sensors that go into other company's medium-frame cameras. The Hasselblad X1D-50c and the Fuji GFX 50S a few years ago had their Sony 50 megapixel sensors upgraded with a 100 megapixel sensor. The Hasselblad IMX461, is a 100MP upgrade to their prevoius 50MP IMX161 sensor which resided inside the Hasselblad and Fuji cameras. Phase One also use Sony's sensors. All of their current sensors are now due for a 200 megapixel upgrade, so rather than Sony giving their highest spec sensors to other camera makers, I guess they now want use them themselves. The real elephant in the room here is Hasselblad, Fuji and Phase One, given that they also rely on Sony's sensors. Will they be given access to this 200 megapixel sensor? What puts Sony apart from other camera manufacturers, is that they also have a semiconductor research division. So the interesting question here is, will Sony monopolize this advantage and keep the highest resolution sensor only for their own cameras, now they've entered the medium format market.

[@philindeblanc]

RIGHT!! If they made the sensor modular with adaptive backs, THEN they REALLY have something. But unlikely.

[@vignesk6669]

this is a particular size curved sensor and it won't be applicable to current MF systems. So, it's either for a new mount/system camera or a fix camera.

[@nogerboher5266]

You got this all wrong... I don't think you know how this whole thing works. People on the internet think that other camera manufacturers use Sonys sensors - No, that's false. (Well, some do) - Sony only manufactures sensors FOR other camera manufacturers! How that works is; Sony basically gets an order from a client (e.g Canon) and all the required design blueprints to manufacture a sensor and then Sony just manufactures the sensors for the client (e.g Canon) that ordered the sensors. Best thing is, you can do that same thing as well - if Sony accepts your order, that is...You send the order with the design blueprints to Sony, make a deal with them and then they make the sensor for you... I even know all the details of the entire manufacturing process, I used to work as a CNC machine operator/senior engineer for a company that made optics for microscopes and other lab equipment.

[@philindeblanc]

@@nogerboher5266 I dont think he was saying anything different. Sony makes sensors for other companies, Be Mamiya PhaseOne, or other. There is an Israeli company that I think also supplies MF sensors, I forget the name. And Im sure he , particularly I know how the entire process works, and your experience is excellent to help with tough questions. Cheers!

[@mikmop]

@@philindeblanc Some companies research, develop and design semiconductors, and some companies just fabricate and manufacture them. Most semiconductor producing companies nowadays are "fabless" chip designers (they outsource all their manufacturing). IBM does both, but AMD for example, initially manufactured its own processors, but then the company later outsourced its manufacturing, after GlobalFoundries was spun off in 2009. And now they produce faster CPUs than IBM. The world's largest semiconductor fabrication plant is TSMC (Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co). They don't do any groundbreaking research and development of futuristic semiconductors, but they do design and produce some basic stock semiconductors that can be used interchangeably as generic variants. So they simply manufacture chips that other companies design and it is the world's largest contract chipmaker/pure-play foundry. And TSMC said recently in a press release, that in 2022 they would begin building a $7 billion semiconductor production plant in Japan in a collaboration with Sony, who will also invest about $500 million in the factory. Sony also said separately, that this plant would supply semiconductors to Sony's image sensor business, with production of image sensors slated to begin at the end of 2024. So the plant is basically jointly owned by these two companies, but purchases of any of its production output would be made through Sony, not TSMC. Hence Sony produces these image sensors, but typically keeps the latest generation for themselves and sells everything else to other camera companies. The sensors that Sony uses in their flagship full frame mirrorless cameras for example, like the Sony A1, is not available for sale to other camera manufacturers. This hasn't been a problem for medium-format camera manufacturers so far, (like Hasselblad, Fuji and Phase-One), etc, as Sony is not in that market. But now that it is in that market, my comment was basically speculating, will they also be supplying their most advanced sensors (i.e. the 200 mp sensor), to these other companies, or will they be keeping it just for themselves. Fabricating image sensors is not an easy thing to do profitably. For example, Panasonic Semiconductor, the division of Panasonic that designs and fabricates its sensors, has been losing money for years. So the fact that it recently sold off its semiconductor division comes as no big surprise, and it's just indicative of how tough business has become in the world of semiconductor production. With more and more camera manufacturers adopting Sony sensors, competing with Sony has become ever more difficult and costly. Since Sony is also a camera manufacturer, its own cameras get access to its newest sensors before anyone else. And on top of that, Sony’s market share is startling; it accounts for around 70% of all smartphone sensors and 50% of all dedicated camera sensors, including the top end medium format camera systems. It's a pity that Tony's research didn't go deeply enough to cover any of this, as I think this is an even bigger part of the story, than the production of an even higher resolution sensor. And if you want to think about this even more deeply, (i.e. outside the box), then consider what would happen if China invaded Taiwan and took control of most of the world's semiconductor fabrication output and also confiscated Taiwan's half a trillion-dollars in cash reserves. We would then have a lot more important things to talk about than my camera can take photos at a higher resolution than your camera can.

[@3BMEP]

Fun video, guys! I’d hope that Sony would use this opportunity to free themselves from their current design vocabulary; haptics, ergonomics; and menu system; and then take advantage of the freedom to build a big enough body with good enough thermal management that they could bring much richer computational imaging to a dedicated camera. I also like your idea, Tony, of a modular system! 50mp back, 100mp back, 200mp back; tiltable EVF or waist level finder, etc.

[@andreasbrand3191]

sorry Tony, having a flat image plane is NOT the main reason for vignetting, it actually has a miniscule effect on that. think about it. The major reason is that your entrance aperture is a 2d circle ... apply your angled light ray explanation to that and you see that while the flux stays the same, the 2d projected entrance area for angled light entering the lens is smaller --> thus less light from angles makes it in. Then internally, the actual aperture continues to crop this angled light beam ;-) Another good way to almost accurately measure your vignetting via not measuring brightness ... "area of bokeh balls". Defocus your lens at given aperture and dark background on some small lights --> bokeh balls or squeezed ones on the outside of the frame. The area ratio of the peripheral bokeh balls are a pretty good indication as to how much darker the brightness at that "spot" (center of bokeh ball approx) is. As you close down the aperture, the angles the light strikes the sensor corners don't change all that much, but the bokeh balls become more equal in area, the center ones shrink faster (from all sides), the peripheral ones that are not circles shrink slower in area, only on the long half-axis. As soon as they're just as round or better same area as the center ones, you can go and focus and you'll know that the vignette is just as small as the difference in bokeh balls was ;-) if you google it, you'll find a good ray optics sketch explaining it best within 30s regards, optics/laser physicist

[@chrisogrady28]

FYI, the Z mount is big enough for a GFX size sensor, and the S lenses project a big enough image circle. So Nikon could release a 100MP medium format camera (Z8?) That uses existing lenses. Now that would be amazing.

[@juliussternfeld428]

Maybe in your dreams. Wishes are not facts.

[@GrandHuevotes]

I’ll take the entire Nikon Z system and toss it off a big cliff. I hate red af squares!

[@neogod29]

@Zi Kun Zeng Nikon is struggling to stay alive. They don't have the resources to create a medium format system.

[@chrisogrady28]

@@neogod29 you missed the point, Nikon wouldn't need to make a whole new system

[@chrisogrady28]

@@juliussternfeld428 why are you so negative?

[@ninehundreddollarluxuryyac5958]

People that dragged an 8X10 around because the image quality was stunning, would pay for a portable digital camera that can make images that are remotely comparable.

[@cadmus777]

About 1/3 of the way in I saw the date, so I assumed it was going to be an elaborate prank, but it just kept getting more elaborate, and I'm not sure you'd put that much effort in! One thing that sprung to mind was that Sony has a relationship with Hasselblad, so they could do medium format under that brand, maybe (it hasn't gone well in the past though).

[@rogernuffer]

Image stabilization would be very tricky on a curved sensor. Flat sensor just moves up down and around but with a curved sensor you have to follow a 3 dimensional arc so you're rotating around your image plain. Probably the easiest way to do this is in Lens stabilization.

[@shakesnbake]

Happy April Fools day

[@Qwiv]

Not sure you can stabilize a curved sensor, or it would at least have to move differently.

[@jesperlett]

No! The main reason for vignetting is the fading image circle at large apertures. It’s the same reason for flat bokeh balls on the fringe of the photo. It’s like looking straight through a pipe vs. looking skewed through so that only part of the exit at the far end can be seen. The reason vignetting disappears when stopping down the lens is that the smaller the aperture at the near end of the pipe is the more it sees completely through the exit at the other end of the pipe or is blocked by the side of the pipe. This creates a sharper image circle the more stopped down the aperture is.

[@memoriesnow5334]

1 April

[@borromine]

First of all I realize you all are experts but the physics of photography is that larger sensors increase bokeh. One reason why all the iPhone photos seem so sharp and in focus is bc the sensor is tiny. As some who used 645 and 67 film gear for years, I am a real fan of the GFX and have both the 50S and 100S. I would like to see a camera like this be a bona fide professional tool, and a system. One of the best system 35mm film cameras was the Pentax LX. It had detachable backs ( not to switch film) to allow 100 foot rolls, data recording and the line. It had detachable view finders for eye level, angled. Straight down and microscopic viewers. The LX in camera metering and system was electronic but the camera would also function with the dead batteries as an all mechanical device. So for instance you could use the camera if it was too cold for the batteries. So a professional level camera not only should have detachable lenses it should have detachable finders. It should have a still photo screen like the Fuji and be able to easily change or add on a flip style or top style screen. Not one from third parties but integral to the design if perhaps not attached. Unlike the Medium format Bronica, Hasselblad and Mamiya digital does not need detachable backs. But optional grips, extra battery packs and so on should be included in the design. The great 35mm film cameras were wonderful but actually a very compromised design. The medium format cameras provided not only better image quality they were also much more flexible. So, a 200 Mb camera, I’d also like to see the capability that cameras have had since about 1860: tilt, shift and swing. Now not everybody needs or wants that but the system, like the Hasselblad arcbody, should be able to accommodate it. And it should have built in Arca Swiss plates. Into the body of the camera or at least a design the simplified the L bracket issues. Phase One has done a decent job creating a high end camera but it is not nearly as convenient or capable as the GFX And while I am at it, I really have a problem with the size of AF lenses. Sure I use them and they are great for some things. But why use a huge dump truck when a small wheel barrel will do. I use enlarger lenses with my GFX Cambo Actus combination. They are tiny hardly larger than a big walnut. They cover the sensor with room for 10mm shift. My manual focus Pentax 645 lenses cover a much much larger area than the GFX lenses but are much much smaller and lighter. Generally they are very close to the GF mount lenses in quality. So what I am saying is that carpenters use more tools than just a saw. Why could we not have a complete system of lenses? Some tiny manual focus and also some autofocus. And while I am at it. What is with no hard stops on focusing? Why do we have to give up all the standard and great features we had in the 1940s. A camera that resolves 200MB should a system tool that fits the needs of pro photographers not a kind of a Lamborghini toy that can only be used for a limited number of styles and purposes. For instance, a camera like this would have very great scientific and conservation / museum uses. It could be attached to microscopes, copy stands, tripods etc etc if it is not designed for those uses, it’s just something for bragging rights of very successful orthodontists and plastic surgeons. In terms of physical design, the Pentax 645 was the most comfortable flexible camera I ever used. (Starting in 1949…) The GFX comes close. But is not quite as good. The Pentax 645 had tripod mounts on TWO sides. Drop dead convenient. Sorry for the long rant. I love digital for so many reasons but many many film cameras were and are easier and nicer to use. Which explains, in a word, much of Fuji’s success. One last note: the GFX needs a right angle finder attachment for copy work. Seems like any pro camera should have that capability if not device. Which is why I have to use the 50S for digital scanning.

[@richardsteinbergmakingknives]

I'd buy it to shoot landscape. But probably not until there were a decent selection of lenses. Hey, tell CT I said hello. I grew up in Somers.

[@liquidmetal9015]

If the sensor size is what you say it would be, and it's curved... The cost of this system would be incredibly high. 20k at least. They could be targeting industry applications like aerial surveillance at that point I know phase one was big in that market.

[@riversheppherd121]

I think you guys discount the fact that Sony also makes cinema cameras and need to research sensors to compete with large format movie cameras like the Alex 65 and arri lf/ red monstro/ imax digital

[@RehctubNomis]

Would the lenses be theoretically be cheaper? As you mention, there's going to be less design required due to the fewer elements as you're not correcting for the flat lens. So yes, a higher body cost for the low sensor yields, but the main part you're spending money on, the glass, should overall be cheaper than full frame comparable? (I mean, once we get over shiny new thing tax and the market matures a little, plus third parties coming in).

[@RehctubNomis]

I don't know if it's the day two of covid lockdown, but I just realised the date...

[@brianlovelace]

It absolutely NEEDS CF Express Type B. I'm sick of them using Type A which is expensive and slow... Although compact.

[@GunslingerMediaCo]

They could theoretically make a curved medium format sensor that fits works with E Mount lenses. Since the E mount is already very small diameter wise, they could add a full frame mode with an adaptor and make it backward compatible with e mount lenses.

[@timlorey3124]

This is interesting news. I recently retired, and my dreams in retirement are to finally utilize my multimedia degree and spend my days, photographing wildlife, and architecture around the world. When Hasselblad announced the X2D with it v series lenses, my heart leaped with joy. However, I currently shot with a Sony A1 and was looking forward to the mark2 being released. Now I’m even more excited that I can possibly keep my brand loyalty alive, thank you, I truly hope it’s soon!

[@dannyboycalifornia]

Kinda curious with the chip shortage and all and shipping delays how any tech and camera company will be coming out with anything new.

[@GM-wu6zk]

The whole idea of a curved sensor would be to not having to go with a box design, like Phase One, but to make this thing as compact as possible.

[@yuehuang3419]

Curved Sensor won't work. 1) The curvature would help with vignetting but lens design still needs the extra layers to address chromatic and rectilinear transformation. The weight saving is marginal. 2) The vignetting is already solved with special shifts of micro-lens to capture the corner edge (up to a degree). 3) A curvature could be optimal for a specific focal lens, but switching to a different focal length lens would require lens element to correct for the curvature. Negating the benefit.

[@youuuuuuuuuuutube]

Disagreed. Correcting for a different curvature is still 10x easier than for a flat sensor. So it doesn't negate the benefit.

[@RG-rm9jt]

Chelsea's glance at the camera as Tony descended into nerd talk was fabulous around 2:45. 😂 Tony did a great job explaining the concept though!

[@dream.machine]

That would be cool for Sony to do this. Sony is usually high quality at cameras in my opinion. Great discussion and video 📷👍🏼

[@nogerboher5266]

The words ''Sony'' and ''high quality'' should not be used in the same sentence - especially when it comes to hardware and materials they use to manufacture their cameras and hardware. If you want quality, high quality, then you look at Nikon, Hasselblad or Canon - not Sony. Sony is not even close to the aforementioned trio. Not to mention the fun fact that Nikon and Hasselblad have been around for over 100 years, longer than any other camera manufacturers in the world and in 2037, Canon will have a 100 year anniversary, so if anyone knows anything about manufacturing high quality cameras, that would be these three companies. I would even put Fujifilm somewhere in there as well.

[@thewafen763]

@@nogerboher5266 most of hasselblads parts are sourced from sony. lmao

[@nogerboher5266]

@@thewafen763 I don’t think you understood what I wrote…

[@nogerboher5266]

@@thewafen763 Sony merely provides a manufacturing service for other manufacturers orders, other manufacturers don’t use Sonys hardware (there are some who do buy out from Sony, yes) they merely send orders with design blueprints for CNC machines to Sony, which then Sony manufactures for them for a fixed cost. For example, the sensor in X series Hasselblad cameras ARE NOT Sonys own sensors, they are only MADE BY Sony but designed and engineered by Hasselblad. It’s like you engineered and designed a car chassis yourself but instead of manufacturing it yourself, you send the blueprints to Toyota and they manufacture your product for you. Everyone does this, it’s not just camera manufacturers.

[@thewafen763]

@@nogerboher5266 I fully agree on what your saying here but you have to realise quality is a wide spectrum. Software, build quality quality cotrol and etc. So you can't say other companys are neccaceraly higher quality. For example lumix has better a better build and button layout imo. But that doesn't mean the product is higher quality.

[@justinbuettner8547]

I think they will price a medium format camera at $9,999. It will not have a shutter only electronic. It will shoot 5fps at 200mp or 10fps at 100mp (as I think it will have a way of turning down the output for smaller files sizes when you need it). It will have stabilization. There will be three primes to start (35mm, 50mm, 85mm) but you will be able to buy an adapter and connect e-mount lenses to this (but it will impact the quality of the images). The hidden feature that will boggle people's minds is that I think this will have video features that allow for anamorphic video capture at 8K. So not only will they capture a high end medium format market, but they will also attract a high end (low budget) film market that is looking for that anamorphic film look. and as crazy as this tech sounds........ Whoever gets the global shutter technology to work on full frame will be the winners of this arms race. It will be interesting to see what company gets there first. My bet is that it will be Sony on that front too. But if they get that global shutter well in advance of Canon then Sony will be #1 in short order.

[@07wrxtr1]

Don't forget: Every big corporation out there has a WET DREAM justin (I was going to capitalize your name but if you're too lazy to, then I'm too lazy to! haha), to put in place some subscription model to maximize profits. It wouldn't surprise me if Sony comes up with some new Raw format requiring some subscription based proprietary software... Why innovate when you can put everyone on a subscription model instead?

[@justinbuettner8547]

@@07wrxtr1 I don't think a subscription model for shooting formats will work. If they decided to enter the software market and compete against Capture One or Lightroom maybe....But even then, that would be too much of a limiting factor in the market. A lot of people would ditch the Sony system if they could only edit their photos on one photo editing software. In addition their software stinks. I could see the camera companies delving into a subscription fee for cloud based storage for cameras (No more SD/CF cards?). I am not sure how much that would be and if people would do that?

[@juliettehotel]

I want to use strobes with this. If the sync speed is high (leaf shutters?), I may sell my car for this. If the lens tilts, I may sell my wife’s car.

[@RedShiftedDollar]

It's all about lens size, complexity, and cost. The biggest barrier to larger formats is that lens size and bulk increase exponentially as the film plane gets bigger. Manufacturing larger lenses is also exponentially more expensive because the glass elements are so large that it takes much longer to grind them to the proper shape. The typical medium format lens can be $2000. If Sony can release a $7000 medium format curved body whose lenses are all the size of full frame lenses or even smaller and in the $500 price range, a Sony medium format plus a few lenses will be cheaper than a full frame plus a few lenses and it will be a no brainer for any photographer to pick the curved system. Also, Sony makes the iphone camera sensors. If they can create a curved version for the iphone, then the performance can be improved significantly without increasing the size of the lens bump. The entire camera system size is a very important constraint for phone cameras. If they can remove lens elements, the cost reduction will enable more cameras per phone as well as cheaper systems when manufacturing millions and millions of phones. Every element that can be eliminated reduces manufacturing requirements by millions of lens elements. Nearly all animals have curved retinas for a reason.

[@Daniel-Six]

This is all about light capture. I work in high-end 3D--where we have a legitimate need for very high resolution images--but even 24MP captured through a great lens is sufficient most of the time. But I am constantly bumping against low-light limits. The ability to shoot in practical light is a make-or-break consideration in many situations.

[@illicit008]

Which 24mp sensor?

[@Daniel-Six]

@@illicit008 Nikon... therefore made by Sony.

[@williamcurwen7428]

If you look at the construction of quite a few digital era lenses, they happen to have wide back elements that cover the entire sensor area with a beam of collimated light, meaning less aberrations and therefore no need for a curved sensor.

[@rosewhite---]

Curved sensors have had to wait until 3d cnc could make a perfect portion of a sphere's inner surface - and then Sony had to figure out how to cover said surface with viable pixels - and add all the connections around the edges. Putting curved sensor in a curved mount in the camera and having that mount rise, fall, tilt and shift would make for an amazing camera - in performance, size and cost!

[@kraftmuppen]

Loved your banter in This one!

[@RF-gt8tr]

Awesome how ya'll are able to keep a straight face on this!

[@ibp2007]

Doesn’t Hasselblad already do this. They also have a huge system.

[@Enitechmedia]

Tony and Chelsea, thank you for the good job you do.

[@Lauren_C]

Still not gonna beat Fuji colors. /s Happy April 1st!

[@sierraecho884]

Usecases can be and are Photogrammetry where the extra resolution turns immediately into a better 3D model. Or Virtual reality where you can immediately see if something is low res. Low res here is already 60MP. So those two usecases would greatly benefit from middle format huge MP cameras.

[@ytr8989]

I don’t think there are many computers that could process 800-1000 MP images.

[@bsmukler]

My recollection is that, dating back to their first digital M (working with Kodak to create the CCD sensor), Leica incorporated angled photocells at the sensor edges to optimize the performance of legacy M lenses. In fact, I believe the SL2 line still incorporates that feature. So, not a curved sensor, but an effort to achieve a similar result. I love Pixel’s cameos as well as Chelsea’s comment, “It won’t be ANYTHING like Sophie’s choice.”

[@vladislavkuba5837]

the curved sensor can only function optimally with a certain focal length - right?

[@synaptichorizons]

Very cool Nerd-Speak for explaining Sony's new proposed Medium Format Camera Platform. Wonder what the poor old Swedish Company Hasselblad thinks about this latest Sony Announcement? I had my first Hasselblad 500CM & 500 EL/M back in 1971-1972 while living in Modena Italy home of the Lamborghini, Ferrari, Maserati, De Tomaso and many other smaller Italian Exotic car manufacturers. Went traveling with the Hassey to east Africa for a 21-day safari shoot! Trust me back then things got pretty wild on those late afternoon, treks along the Amboseli or Serengeti plains in little VW safari buses. You know like rhino and elephant attacks or getting stuck in a mud bog (after a mini monsoon downpour) and having to get out of the VW bus and push from behind surrounded by Lions, lounging around in the grass under a tree after their successful game hunt. (The Park Guide/Ranger assured us, Lion's never attack when their fully satiated), yeah, right until, one of the lion's gets Alzheimer's and forgets that Golden rule!

[@TheChadWork2001]

Sony can't sell Medium Format for $10,000.00 when Fujifilm is selling it for $4,000.00.

[@scotthullinger4684]

A medium format camera built by Sony is like an Audi built by Yugo.

[@johndonaldson5126]

I think you touched on the biggest reason Sony might come out with a medium format but you skimmed over it and moved on to other topics. I see the sensor size as a continuum. At the low end is the micro-four-thirds sensor, then the aps-c, followed by full frame. Adding medium format just extends the range. Why would Sony do this? Smart phones have pretty much gobbled up the low end pocket cameras, and I suspect micro-four-thirds (Olympus) is being squeezed out by phone cameras. So the next target for smart phones to gobble up would be aps-c, although that is a much bigger market so it will take time. The industry pushes FF and many people think aps-c is falling by the wayside. So the segment of the market furthest away from the smart phone eating machine currently is FF although that market has shrunk along with the whole camera market. So it seems wise to open up the medium format market hoping it would be out of reach of the smart phone cameras. Also should Canon enter that market Sony would want to be there first. Most people who follow you Tony & Chelsea are pixel-peepers. Most people who are content with their phone cameras are not pixel-peepers and don't understand why anyone would crop in to look at pixels anyway. So what price range would Sony target? Sony has a recent history of introducing products priced less than the competition, but higher than most of the Sony line. I would expect the same for a medium format. I wouldn't be surprised if it was $500 less than a Fuji medium format. I'm thinking it might be in the $4,000 range. I'm an aps-c shooter and won't change. There are tradeoffs when moving to the next highest sensor. Smaller sensors mean smaller lenses. Smaller sensors are less expensive. Smaller sensors have better in body image stabilization. Larger sensors have better low light capability. Larger sensors allow for tighter cropping in post. I'm happy with the aps-c tradeoffs.

[@chiquita683]

Not sure if you've tried to do bird photography or sports with your phone but it's a bit hard. Aps-C is unlikely to go anywhere because of that. Micro43 is dead already except for video. All full frame needs to do is make some slower lenses with good quality so they are similar size to M43 and that angle is dead too.

[@DokterRoetker]

Good point. The 1 inch sensor was really the unique selling point of the RX100, but now even some phones have 1 inch sensors. The only way is up.

[@Chris-ey7zy]

Sony doesn’t have to lower their prices against Fuji. Just have better video specs

[@ArminHirmer]

Imo it will be a A1 body upscaled, which sensor stabilisation of course and their great autofocus system (there eis where Fuji lacks) and price 12000 and all good :) I will get one

[@mjphotos]

I love the way your dog just woke up had a big yawn looked at the camera and then went back to sleep

[@fzeo]

i never missed any video from you guys especially on 1st aprill.

[@dglebov]

Human eye is a natural principle of sharp picture with a simple lens element, but modern lens is a tremendous solution for geography charts projection problem, gaps distortion etc. There is a software to do that, simillar to distortion correction allready in Lightroom and simillar, we know resolution shortcomings are there. It would be interesting to hear about that.

[@jerold1216]

Who knows what body style Sony will decide, but I am with you, Tony. Psychologically it makes sense to use the Hasselblad-like body style that is traditional with medium format cameras. That body style carries forward the status symbol of a high-end professional camera over the run-of-the-mill 35mm body style. That could help Sony market the camera by setting it apart and stirring up emotional appeal. I agree the application would make sense for landscape/product/studio photographers and would most likely sit on a tripod. It may physically require the space of a box-style body to cram everything into a workable body disperse heat.

[@MarktrustingJesus]

i would buy 1 for landscape to add alongside my a1 for action/wildlife.

[@venom5809]

LMAO the photobomb by Pixel at 14:11 😂

[@kn7x802]

I would buy purely for this reason: “My camera is bigger than yours.”

[@pharezaouad9744]

Sony makes MF sensors for Hasselblad, Phaseone and Fuji. This wouldn't be too much of a surprise. As long as we get fast and accurate AF.

[@clanteh]

I'm confused.... M1 is inferior to what AmD and Intel offer. Chelsea made it seem like just NOW we have technology to process all these pictures. Yeah, back in 2017 maybe not but at least since 2019 we have

[@youreperfectstudio4789]

I’ve been processing 200MP images since the 4th gen i3 with 8gb ram. It’s a lot faster now on my latest i7 for sure but it’s been possible for a while.

[@DaveHaynie]

I was processing 200+ megapixel images back in 2013. In fact I build a high end PC for that specific purpose. It hardly required the new Apple machines. There are plenty of Intel and AMD faster than Apple's Studio computers. No necessarily in such a tiny box, and more power hungry, but that's not the issue with introducing a higher resolution camera.

[@corbinwesler3985]

Well, Phase One and Sony did team up for Phase One's IQ3 100mp and IQ4 150mp "Full-Frame" Medium Format (645) ... which is larger than the Fujifilm GFX 50/100 and Hasselblad X1D crop-sensor MF sensors (all of which use a Sony sensor). I believe Sony also developed Phase One's 50mp backs (which are crop-sensor MF like the GFX and X1D). Although, depending on where you stand, even 645 isn't full-frame since it was one of the smaller MF sizes during the film days when MF cameras were usually 6x6 or 6x7. I'd love to see a digital 6x7 sensor, though. That'd be awesome! Also, I loved my Phase One when I owned it, and plan on buying the IQ3 100mp or IQ150mp back soon. Honestly, having shot digital and film MF, I'd say that a lot of it is resolution based, but another factor to me is the look of MF. For instance, an 80mm f2.8 on MF would give you the compression of an 80mm with the field of view of about 50-60mm (depending on sensor size).

[@obayedh]

April 1st already!? ;) Thanks Tony :)

[@cbdougla]

I don't see how they would do sensor stabilization on a curved sensor. Wouldn't moving the sensor would move the edges out of focus?

[@sagunlama]

One of my friend who had no idea about camera, went to the store to buy Sony back in 2016. He bought Hasselblad and told me it’s the most expensive one in the store.

[@memcrew1]

How was his photos? Does he still have the hassy?

[@ytr8989]

Rocket science!

[@f__e__e__l__e__e__p]

I just realised it is 1st APRIL :-)

[@KOKOBC]

I can imagine that being so expensive in both the glass and the body

[@manfriendlychurch]

Wil the required curve for a sensor vary depending on the focal length of the lens?

[@maxdmachy]

Not necessarily. A single element design would have to change the sensor curve so to say. Multi elements could vary the required curve. As proven by Minolta - they once brought a variable field curvature 24mm lens to the market. Or also by recent designs which can provide sharpness for a flat object to the corners. Yet most likely long tele glass could not really take advantage of the provided curve. Assuming it's optimized for "normal focal lengths. And if not all is an April fool's joke!

[@manfriendlychurch]

@@maxdmachy Whether this video is an April fools joke is questionable but recently Tony has talked about curved sensors on another video and I did not get round to asking the question. I get curved sensors as the eyeball is a curved sensor with just a single lens! However it has a fixed focal length. If you adjust the curve by additional lens(es) in the path you may as well just use a flat sensor.

[@maxdmachy]

@@manfriendlychurch yes - in principle. Yet getting these completely flat areas in focus - converting the camera into a copy machine - that's bound to get you expensive glass. Typically also adds weight & bulk. Curved sensors would make DESIGN so much EASIER. Particularly if they were for photographers who want primes in a limited range, let's say 24 - 85mm. A 85mm could be a super-luminous bokeeh monster, outperform the professional 70-200mm zooms in many ways. Fool's day joke or not, all major camera manufacturers have filed patent applications for curved sensors in recent years. Could also make smartphones producing more natural photos than today's pimped-up multi-shot monstrosities. This channel won't like a real curved photo camera. As long as there would presumably be a limitation to standard primes. And the suggested high-end studio / landscape beast doesn't fit the DNA of hectic techies! I might love such a camera. And I will never buy one

[@lifeinchina-hainan]

Always make me smile when I see people with 40 or 50 Mpx shooting at 2.0... That's a lot a blurred Mpx ;p

[@Cre8teQ]

Annie Lebovitz, just did a Rihanna shoot for Vogue, entirely on Fujifilm GFX... You described how "Idiotonomics" and "Fools, and their money are easily parted" really well though 🤣

[@alexsystems2001]

I love the end image quality of a Sony AND I love the precision of their optics as well as the tech such as autofocus and speed. BUT I don’t like their build quality. I had an A7R4 for a while and somehow dust got between the elements in the lens, it also arrived out the box with dead pixels on the screen. I eventually sold it after having to send it in for those problems.

[@deangelobillion1764]

They would do 150mp for video and 200mp for photos. also curse sensor are good to make better separation and good for lest rolling shutter.

[@robertowen-jones443]

It would be great to see an update on this. Fujifilm has yet to announce the replacement for its GFX100… so exciting times to come toward the end of 2023

[@psyoungdds]

You guys are funny, love all your review videos. I'm a dentist and I will not buy a camera in the 5 digits ($$$$$) but did looked at a medium formats. I think a high end 40+ MP cameras are sufficient for any landscape enlargements that I could put in my office. Still deciding on which camera to upgrade to from the Nikon D750 which is now used for patient photos. The curve sensor totally makes sense as our eye balls (our biological sensors) are curved. Less elements in a lens means less weight and sharper image. I would like to see Sony come up with a medium format at 100MP sensor, price range - $6-7K. That would take over the medium format market and over Leica's and Fuji's market shares. Why not a Leica Q2 or Rx1Rii on steroids (fix lens camera for enthusiast like me). Second camera at 200MP to take over Hasselblad's market share for professionals. Sony has more resources than all 3 of these companies put together. If anyone can do it? Sony can.

[@csotoperspective]

It took me until now to be able to find a way to afford a A7R IV and I still couldn't afford it, had to finance it. I can't imagine a $20k camera. Though am happy to see this go through and actually be true rumors!!

[@CiaranWhelan]

If they want to win over the masses, then rebuild a completely new menu system. They need to look at Hasselblad as an example of the best menu user experience/ interface on the market today

[@tooki3698]

Until somebody brings out a medium format camera that's a true 645, I really couldn't care less.

[@donwhite332]

As a retired dentist, I think Sony will target this camera even higher, like you tubers such as yourself.

[@nerys71]

200MP. IF YOU HAVE THE GLASS to resolve that many megapixels is ultimately a game changer. I Mean think of it this way. you can take a picture with a 400 mm lens and crop it to an effective 800mm and still have a freaking 50 MP image !! or crop that to 1600mm and have still a "usable" 12.5mp image !!!! if the glass can actually RESOLVE that. its a game changer.

[@lgm9324]

If Sony truly wanted to be a game changer in the medium format camera realm, they would make a sensor bigger than 645,. and at least two F/2 aperture leaf shutter lenses.

[@oudviola]

Just to note, scanning an 8x10 inch film at 2400-3200 pixels per inch yields 500-800 megapixels. My 4x5 negatives have at least that much resolution, the flatbed scanner is probably limiting. If you're really not in a hurry!

[@funland108]

Important point! We’re still a long way from 10x8 in a single shot. I would say 600mp would do that. But realistically, the 150mp Phase One sensor probably already slightly outperforms 5x4, though it depends on the setup, lenses, wind movement etc.

[@adinew8920]

Thanks...

[@robinschaeffer6252]

my guess - a 150mp camera with a flat sensor and computationally corrected lenses at a price point slightly above that of Fuji. A 200mp camera with a curved sensor (with problems in the first iteration) at a higher price for those who love technology and want something different. Most professional medium format camera users could care less about all the added junk so called "full frame" cameras have, but want something that can take good pictures. The old 6X6 and 6X7 film cameras were more expensive than the 135mm film cameras, but not extremely so and served a different market. I think those same markets still exist today with the same wants and needs.

[@tshev]

Any updates regarding Sony medium format?

[@Man_Cave]

I predict that in 10 years Nikon, Sony, and Cannon will pressure everyone to go to medium format to get their fingers deeper into our pockets.

[@ytr8989]

Nikon never going medium format.

[@zoubtube]

This isn't new for Sony. They have a LOOONG history of designing high end or best in class products in many of their BU's. From todays $100K+ projectors, $2K DVD players in the 90's, $1K car head units in the 80's (7909 was an amazing head unit) to receivers, speakers, amps, digital MP3 players etc. Their history is littered with amazing super high-end products. But they always limit the sales of their highest end and focus on the trickle down products built off of them for at least a decade. If they really are working on a medium format curved sensor camera, than chances are the first launch will be VERY high-end and that it will trickle down to full frame eventually. The industry is going to need a big selling point come 10 years to get the average enthusiast interested in expensive cameras as we'll all have a A1 or equivalent by then. This could be a part of it

[@KNURKonesur]

I've been waiting for YEARS for a camera like this. There is a bunch of people that shoot medium format film, but never invested into medium format digital based on the sensor size of the Fuji/Hasselblad cameras.

[@Juventinos]

because medium format film has better resolution. I am one of them. thought I do have a Hasselblad ccd 60mpx camera as well.

[@KNURKonesur]

@@Juventinos I'm still thinking about one of those older digital backs. An Aptus 10 with the 3:2 image factor would be wicked! My main interest in this Sony would be that it's a mirrorless camera, so it would be possible to very easily adapt a lot of interesting lenses from the olden days and not have to make complicated modifications.

[@thiagobnla]

I see Apple launching their new M1 Macs by presenting their cheapest model first, as I believe to "feel the market and see how it goes". do you guys think Sony would do the same, being such a niche market? I feel like, although Fuji has a high percentage of the market, their "pro" users are but a few. Even though Sony would go for fuji's space, a high number of fuji's users are enthusiast, whom primarily goes for their design. I agree with Chelsea for a business point of view, releasing a "base/introductory" model first and then launching their flagship medium format, fully specked

[@blueishxx]

I have been waiting for something like this to photograph my old kodachrome slides , but I don't know if this is what I need , I don't have any idea how to set it up to do this function , and I don't know if I can afford this camera/lens

[@HR-wd6cw]

If In fact Sony is going to do MF, I still think they are at least a few years off from it being adopted (not just Sony) as a "replacement" for FF. Many people are moving to MF thanks to Fuji making it more affordable, but I think we may also have reached a point that even if Sony and Fuji make it affordable (over what Sigma, Hasselblad, and others have) it will still remain more of a niche market for at least the next 5 years. Plus you have to figure that FF lenses are already expensive in some cases, and MF lenses will be even worse. That's sort of apparent with Fuji (not that they are bad lenses, but just expensive compared to their FF counterparts) and for some people, FF may be the limit as to what they can afford. As an enthusiast, I probably won't move to MF, and only would if I was doing enough paid work to help justify the move (and expense). This also may be one reason why we haven't seen an update to the A7R IV, but we have seen updates to most other cameras (and some cameras being dropped, like some in the a6000 line)... Sony is preparing itself to venture into another format of digital camera.