Sony SL2500 Betamax is over engineered

[@ludwig_der_grobe]

Nice video! I have the SL-2700. It is still working as new. I restored all my cassettes and saved my KZbin videos to the cleanest tapes. I enjoy from time to time using it.

[@video99couk]

Those front loading plastic gears were rubbish on the SL-C9. The metal upgrade kit was available for a time. The DC-DC converter often fails causing no display, I rebuilt one recently.

I still own my father's SL-2500. It was a Cadillac! Very complex, indeed. It sold for $1600 CDN back in '82. It visited the Sony repair shop twice in the first 5 years. Blown up transistors on one on the motors. The cassette loading gears are indeed problematic. They become brittle as time goes by.

[@chezsnailez]

We have an TT-2000 tuner module with a similar hidden DC plug... Checking the manual and service manual (we have both) and the only clue to its use is mention of a 'coming soon' Sony antennae signal booster for distant-from-station reception. Recalling an old Betamax forum query and this may have been the power take off for said booster. No other mention of the cord is made in either manuals.

[@ShawnJenkins-vd9pq]

You're work is awesome!! I never get bored!! Very knowledgeable man!! I've learned a grip!!

[@AnalogueOctober]

I love the fact that On The Buses travelled overseas.

[@andynoon2584]

I remember On the buses, one of my favourite comedies. Didn't think it was shown outside of the UK. Nice repair to that unit, but what a head ache to get to the bit you wanted to check.

[@dv_vid]

Sanyo also did something like that on the VCR 4200/4300 that limited the timer to 3 or 7 days. In the service manual it mentions that a pin selects whether it does 3 days or 7 days.

[@crashbandicoot4everr]

That's right. I have a VTC 5350 which is the same machine but for the Middle Eastern market. The timer board on mine also has that jumper for 3/7 day selection. Some Sears rebadged models were only 1-day.

[@750kv8]

11:43 - Gotta love the few-lines miniature test pattern signals in the VBI. VBI used to be the 'behind your back' kinda busy area for some TV broadcasts. Teletext, scrambling info (I assume), test signals, closed caption / subtitles, time code, macrovision (EW!) etc...

[@12voltvids]

You are talking about VITS, vertical interval test signals. On NTSC they were as follows. Line 1-9 are your vertical blanking signals, where the beam flys from the botton to top of screen. Starting on line 10 through 21 these are available for auxiliary data and in general followed this format. 12-14 were SIMPTE time code for the program, could also be used for teletext. 17 -18 were used for a multi burst and color bar test signal. This way the engineer could evaluate the transmitter full time, as his monitor scope and vector scope could pick off those single lines. Line 19 was VIR, which was pretty cool in its day. It carried 3 signals over the entire line. The first was a 70% lumanence reverence and 70% color burst, the remaining portion of the line as 50% lumanence and 7.5% lumanence which as you probably know 7.5% is the black pedestil level. This was used by the TV to set up brightness, contrast, color and tint automatically. Network codes and teetext on line 20 and line 21 closed caption along with XDS and vchip data. Macrovision data occupies line 10 - 19 on macrovision encoded closed circuit signals used on VCR, DVD and STB.

[@shawnjenkins8707]

You’re my BETA Sony hero. I have learned a lot from watching your videos!! May I please get one? I am interested in seeing how this machine works.. and you are the man that knows. I love this vintage stuff!! It never gets boring to me. Keep up the good work!! I love your cats 🐈🙂

[@12voltvids]

This one is for sale

[@CotyRiddle]

had a hifi one similar to that one when i was younger. my dad gave it to me. Liked to shock everyone that touched it. could never figure that out. aside from trying to eat tapes for no reason (mechanically) it actually produced a decent image.

[@dombarton2483]

I owned the SL C9E..was that model the same as the SL 2500 for release in the US and CANADA? I never ever had an issue with it...except dirty heads after 15 years of usage. The best still ever in those days..no jitter whatsoever...it just never missed a beat.

[@MyPOLYSTAR]

Betamax forever! ❤

[@andershammer9307]

I bought one of those at a Hamfest for $10 or less and it didn't work but I found it had a conductive glue issue. Chopped out the glue and it ran fine. Same thing happened to my SL-HF300 I bought new. I got another 2500 but it was toast literally as there was a hole burned through the takeup and supply motorboard.

[@LibraAudioLaboratory]

The failure of the 711D Chassis are many; - Breakage of the movable guide on the loading ring. - The loading pulley for the ring have a brass inside, this expand and damage the loading pulley. -The great inertia of the D.D. reel assy. - The upper drum need a resurfacing. - The back-up battery leak very badly. - Very Fragile front loader. One vantage: No DC/DC converter like on the CCIR version (SL-C9E).

[@12voltvids]

Believe me I know all the problems. Especially when people put the allsop wet head cleaner inside. Crunch, snap pop, Guides ripped out. Lots of headaches with these. We had a repair kit for the guides. You had to use a special nipper to nip off the broken hinge and then screw down a new block to the existing screw holes where the old one came out.

[@LibraAudioLaboratory]

@@12voltvids The Same thing are on the Chassis 711P: SL-F1 (SL-2000)

[@12voltvids]

@@LibraAudioLaboratory The portable sl2000 uses the same chassis with the same faults. Especially with high grade tapes. They were really bad for polishing up the upper drum.

[@were_all_fact6026]

IIRC There was supposed to be an add-on mechanism which allowed the switching of tapes ala a jukebox. Giving hours of recording time. Maybe that is what that 12v adapter is?

[@12voltvids]

Yes called the "beta stack" would hold 5 tapes and drop them down as the prior tape came out. Only ever saw one of them. It was another white elephant that had constant problems. We used to joke that Sony stood for "soon only not yet" with respect to the fix for some of these gadgets.

[@markhod1960]

You have to Love them Old Betamax units.

[@ssks1979]

Very informative video, thanks. I hope my working SL2710 was a design improvement. I haven't finished transferring some interesting recordings that I made back then.

[@12voltvids]

2710 was a different chassis he 711b and had most of the problems with this one solved.

[@ssks1979]

@@12voltvids That's good news, thanks!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

All his videos are packed with great info :)

[@Watcher3223]

The SL-2710 is a high end offering that wasn't as full-featured as the SL-2700, but was a lot more reliable using a simpler single-motor idler reel table assembly and a simpler cassette carriage mechanism, all carried over from the EZ-Beta models that were available at the time the SL-2500 was marketed. The SL-2710 was also built more stoutly, IMO, than the SL-2700.

[@12voltvids]

@@Watcher3223 the 2710 was a huge improvement to this design and that chassis carries through to the SL 24xx series and slhfxxx series right through to the slhf1000 they changed it again in later models when they went solenoid free. The single loading/threading motor with the planetary transmission to change the single loading motor between front loader and threading was reliable and cheap. It did result in machines coming in because some "friend" commented on how noisy it was and that something had to be broken. Many came back for that loading sound and people had to be educated on it. We charged 29.00 for wasted time chasing a non existing fault. Of course the heads were always cleaned and when the customer complained that it should be warranty they were nicely told by the service people that had cleaning is considered maintenance not warranty. The sheer number of the 711 B chassis showing up when they were all literally brand new for strange noises when loading tapes was unbelievable. For every 10 machine sold nine would come back within the first month because the customer was concerned something was breaking and every single one of them resulted in a $29 diagnostic/cleaning charge not covered by warranty for a no-fault found. It got so bad that our sales people started demonstrating it to people when they were coming in to buy a new betamax they would put a tape in the showroom and say listen to this sound it's normal. this is because people were typically upgrading from an older machine that was relatively silent and the noise it made shock them but it was reliable and very simple.

[@Raptor50aus]

On the buses, I'll get you Butler! :)

[@mertuckan]

I bet you don't remember, last year I requested that if you can show how to take out the loading mechanism of a sl-c9 and you replied and said you don't have one to take apart. SL2500 and SL-C9 have the same loading mechanism. I had to figure it out by my self then. Now you have showed everything that I needed to know including the places of the switches. Thank you for that sir. Please show us more about this SL2500. Hall sensors and everything. I have 2 more SL-C9's that need to be taken care of. thanks very much.

[@danmackintosh6325]

Ugh Duracell! I actually just took custodianship of my dad's old Sony hifi midi system from about 1998ish and the remote had a pair of Duracell with an expiry of 2013 on them. Those have not leaked, presumably from the time when they actually made decent quality cells. They also still appeared to function, which was cool. the bin is the only thing they're worth risking now though... ooof, sticky shed on the buses lol... wonder if they also had any of the professionals or minder...

[@crashbandicoot4everr]

The SL-C9 (PAL) model is almost identical to this but has linear stereo sound with BNR (Sony's version of Dolby). I wonder why they didn't include that with the 2500 NTSC model.

[@12voltvids]

Because beta hifi was already here in the sl5200. They adapted it quickly to the 2500 and the 2700 was born.

[@Eric-ck5qr]

After about 2 days of removing the loading basket, correcting a mis-aligned gear on the loading basket, and then re-assembling, the unit will still not engage when a tape is inserted. I'm not certain if it is a faulty switch or wire in the loading basket. Even when the loading basket is completely disconnected from the VCR, upon pressing POWER ON, a few seconds later, oddly the yellow 'EJECT' light illuminates. The eject light coming on with no tape inside (OR no loading basket plugged in) seems highly abnormal.

[@12voltvids]

There are switches all over that loader.

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

@7:00 - at least that was an easy fix -gear right there at the top - wonder if that's the same plastic they used in the gears of those uber expensive Sony walkmen that always crack.

[@justinellison4214]

Had a toshiba beta vcr. Had a great picture.

[@ronaldhofmeister2976]

My Mother bought a Sony SL-2700 Sony Betamax. And then I bought a Sony ED Betamax in Hawaii it had 2 front Metal Handles. And then my Mother bought S-VHS deck that had side wood Pannel’s. I also had the Sony ED Beta Camcorder with Tri-Pod!! I loved the Betamax!! I used to buy the Longest Length Beta Tape I think the L-750 & L-830 I bought them by the Box’s!! I taped a lot off of satellites off of Homebox office!! I recorded all the Concerts & off of Showtime!!

[@12voltvids]

I never got into edbeta. By the time that was out I had a betacam sp for my commercial production work.

[@NJRoadfan]

I had gotten a pair of SL-2700s cheap at a flea market about 20 years ago. This video is triggering PTSD. I never did cobble a working machine from those two units. That transport was bafflingly complex. I had similar loading issues with the machine. I think I got it to thread a tape once only to find out the damn capstan motor was dead. My family for some reason only owned Sanyo Beta machines. They were cheap, but their tape transport, albeit completely different from Sony's, was built like a tank. All our tapes were in similar worn out shape because we used to....ahem.... time shift our VHS video rentals for later viewing. :)

[@hermannschaefer4777]

Well, I wound't say they were over engineered. But those machines share the same problem many electric devices had around that time: The consumer wanted "intelligent" devices, new shiny "features", but the computer tech was still ways behind. Today, 90% of the board would fit into 1 or 2 special micro controllers, back then, they needed a hell of analog parts, 74-logic and whatnot. It's the same with eg. music synthesizers or that time, eg. Roland Juno's and such. Still kinda analog, but also many advanced features and a hell to repair nowadays. Or bench meters and such - today one chip inside, back then 2 big boards crowded with 74's, op-amps and tantalum caps...

[@chriscutress1702]

The only Sony Video Tape Recorder I have is a VHS. I guess they had given up on Beta by then. Only time I used Beta was for digital audio recording and playback using an SonyPCMF1 unit. I'd love to pickup a cheap Beta of the matching type as the F1 unit to match the display and play the few tapes I still have from those days. Those Sony F1 and Beta units were portable and did a good job of recording digital audio but were replaced by the Sony (and other brand) DAT players within a few years.

[@12voltvids]

The matching beta for the F1 is the sl2000. I have 2 of them.

[@chriscutress1702]

I texted you

[@paulb4uk]

Sony slc7 my dad's till has good heads just common faults with caps.and timer /clock.

[@shawnjenkins8707]

It was a cool design for the 80's!! I really want one.. I have all these tapes that are old wanna watch them..😁

[@12voltvids]

I sold the like new one I had. Have another but it isn't in good shape.

[@MrBetaByte]

I always wanted to see the US version of the SL-C9 that uses the same deck but the US versions are quite different - do they use the little DC-DC-AC convertor as the power supply arrangement looks completely different on the SL2500? The C9 was linear stereo, did the US have a linear stereo machine before the Hi-Fi machine was released and did it have the PCM drop-out compensator cut-out switch? I really do love these decks and enjoy working on them (am I one of a few?) although they can be a challenge - have a few videos with some fun repairs including an open-circuit head chip! Great video and thoroughly enjoyed seeing the US variant being worked on.

[@Watcher3223]

The SL-2500 was a monaural machine. It did have the PCM switch for using it with a PCM processor, like the Sony PCM-F1. There were only a few linear stereo Sony Betamaxes for North America and they were commercial machines as denoted by their SLO prefixes in their model numbers instead of the typical SL prefix, as well as the GCS-50. There was also the Marantz VR-200, which was a linear stereo machine with Dolby System type C for noise reduction.

[@MrBetaByte]

@@Watcher3223 Thanks for the info - very useful. I'm lucky enough to have a SLO-1700 machine which has both Hi-Fi and linear stereo which I'll be making an in-depth video on soon. Useful to know the SL-2500 had a PCM switch too. I have a lot to learn on the North American Beta machines and you're reply has helped fill in some blanks. Did you get many multi-standard/ multi voltage units in North America? I do really love the SL800 which could play French Secam recordings as well as some NTSC and PAL.

[@Watcher3223]

@@MrBetaByte No, the bulk of North American machines produced were strictly NTSC and for 120VAC 60Hz. There were some PX model Betamaxes, like the SL-2710 that I own. It's the same as a North American SL-2710, but its power supply is multi-voltage with 50 and 60 Hz support. Still NTSC, though.

[@hifismiffy]

Your machine looks like a Sony C9 but without the illumninated transport keys. The C9 reaplaced the monster that was a C7 in the UK. Olive from On The Buses was not a pretty sight !

[@UHF43]

I never understood the reason for that strap-spring arrangement in the carriage. Looks so flimsy!

[@frankpitochelli6786]

Hello my friend, long time no chat, yes, these machines were a nightmare to "try" to repair..the early Pioneer projo tvs were as bad... However, Sony made a decent VHS machine once they got into that market. Good video and happy holidays.

[@12voltvids]

Except for the p6 guide that froze and took out the sub can gear, the pinch arm that froze to the post and snaped the pinch arm, the infamous blue gear that snapped and the white gear before they upgraded it and made it blue, and then capacitors that pissed all over the place in the PSU and Hi-Fi audio board.

[@ronaldhofmeister2976]

I also had the Sony 2 unit Model 1 was the VCR & the other unit was the Tuner. They were the SL-2000, T-2000!!

[@12voltvids]

Yes i have 2 of them. Should do a service on them. They probably need it.

[@Hounddoggy33]

As soon as I saw the video I knew it was "On The Buses". Hilarious Britcom! I watched KVOS 12 when I lived in Comox.

[@martinda7446]

I used to see Arthur (Olives husband) some mornings at a bus stop in Wimbledon in the mid 70s... Yep at a bus stop!

[@MrPitatom]

On the busses. Love that show.

[@greggaieck4119]

12vol ltvids what a cool sny sl2500 Betamax

[@EastAngliaUK]

would be cool watching 80s and 90s films on that machine.

[@mouseminer2978]

Is the top plastic is painted or just straight from the injection moulding machine? Thanks

[@12voltvids]

What top plastic.

[@mouseminer2978]

@@12voltvids I mean VCR front face plate. Thanks

[@12voltvids]

@@mouseminer2978 yes it's painted.

[@thebreretons]

Wish I had a genuine gear kit for the SL-C9 Sl-2500 chassis, 😒 The SL-C9 was my favourite machine to work on back in the 80's, I've got an SL-C9 machine and 2 brand new original heads …the ones that came in white boxes (if needed) …just waiting for a gear kit from wherever. Used to love On The Buses, I've got the box set!

[@12voltvids]

I was given a bag of Sony parts and that gear might be in there. Just don't remember where I put that bag of parts.

[@EastAngliaUK]

on the buses is always on ITV3 channel hear.

[@Xicohtencatl_Xayacate]

Which ones are the most reliable Betamax VCR models? You mentioned the SL-5000 series (5800, for example). These ones are really old... I own a SL-2405 and a SL-340, and they both required reparations. 😅😅

[@12voltvids]

711 chassis. Slhf300 500 900 1000 ect.

[@andershammer9307]

How do you re-surface the head drum ? I have an SL-HF900 thats works but requires constant cleaning of the video head.

[@12voltvids]

You resurface the upper drum with comet cleanser. The 900 had a problem with the head that resulted in constant clogging. On early machines they did not put filler between the chips on the double azimuth head. I changed several under warranty for this. They put epoxy in the gap between the heads. Without the filler the sharp edge of the head scrapes on the tape surface and clogs it up. The 900 was the first beta that used 4 heads. Good luck finding the upgraded head. There was a colored dot placed on the back of the machine when the head was upgraded. It came with the replacement head to let future techs know that the head disk was upgraded. I changed a fair number under warranty.

[@andershammer9307]

@@12voltvids Is this machine toast then ? There is nothing I can do with the head in it ?

[@12voltvids]

If the head is clogging constantly then 1 of 2 things. Your tapes are shot, the binder is shot and the oxide is falling off or the head has a chip and it's scratching the tape surface. I don't know where you would find a head disk. It's easy to change if you find one. If you look on eBay someone probably has one kicking around.

[@andershammer9307]

@@12voltvids The same tapes play fine on my SLHF-300 without clogging the heads so its not the tapes.

[@12voltvids]

@@andershammer9307 then it is the chipped head chip (bad pun I know). They changed the head part number for an improved one. I had to change mine eons ago for that very problem. That head drum ended up in my slhf1000 when the rotary transformer seized up. The head is still good, so when the 900 head on the 1000 wears out I'll pull the disk out of the seized drum and put it in the repaired machine. The 1000 has flying erase so it won't edit cleanly anymore but i have 2, and would just use this for playback if I ever had the bug to edit with beta for a throwback. I just use it as a playback machine for archiving

[@martinda7446]

Oh! Arthur! That made my day, that did Butler. Get that bus out!

[@12voltvids]

Yep used to watch it here every night.

[@benmeuninck7410]

i.m looking for Panasonic VHS Omnivision VCR PV-1231R top loader

[@Musicradio77Network]

This SL-2500 has the same spools that you get on an SL-2000. Trust me. The Sony SL-2000/TT-2000 is probably my goto portable Betamax VCR.

[@12voltvids]

Sl2000 2500 and 2700 all same. Known as tape breakers. They were terrible as soon as the upper drum got even the slightest bit if polish from the tape. Hg tape was even worse.

[@amatorev]

strange 40 years that capacitors have not failed

[@KylesDigitalLab]

I now hate those stupid Sony orange modules now. Even their broadcast equipment has them. My BVP-30 went up in smoke for some reason and went I opened it up one of the modules was brunt. I would assume replacing the module would fix it but good luck finding another module. Isn't the broadcast equipment made for service?

[@fadhlematrook1248]

i am happy to see betamax

[@redneckbryon]

Oh no Bata, Do you know that reference, lol My grandpa had that exact same machine. In our home our VCR Clock was always set, lol

[@12voltvids]

I'm going on a limb here. Doh!

[@Shamsithaca]

hello Are u in toronto? I am looking to get a philips VCR from 1988 checked out. thanks!

[@12voltvids]

Go west. Wayyyy west. I can dip my toes in the Pacific ocean.

[@Shamsithaca]

@@12voltvids got it! Thats sad for me! I really need to find a technician who knows what he is doing and is gentle with the unit also. I have a Philips 6443 from 1989. Visually its in great physical condition. I opened the cabinet and its looks VERY clean. But when I put a VHS in, the rewind is slow, the forward is slow and when i press play, the spools drag the tape half way, and cant go any further, and tries a bit, then the VCR goes to standby. (maybe a protect mode)? I was looking for grease and its looks empty...whatever is there is dry completely. Is that the reason? from 2 decades or so of no use? I dont hear any bad noise or anything...just seems like the VCR struggling to rewind, forward and play. The head spins effortlessly however.

[@danmackintosh6325]

haha on the stroke of 36 minutes, it's not the "to booster" that has me in tears, it's the "regurator" portion of the board. Ohh, Sony haff senz of humol rike u say Dave-san. FU2? Ha, FU3!

[@enricoself2256]

Sony is a king of over-engineering ... on high-end products they have a tendency to think that "more complex is better" and clearly over-engineer simple parts just for the sake of it. Sony is best on low/mid end products where they use nice and effective designs with fewer parts but quite durable and reliable.

[@Johnathan_Waters]

I didn't realize anything "durable and reliable" was still made!

[@enricoself2256]

@@Johnathan_Waters actually I'm talking about the 80's or the 90's. Sony of today is another company ...

[@Johnathan_Waters]

@@enricoself2256 Darn, I got excited! lol

[@Gypsycat19]

I have PAL version C9 it won't eject tapes anymore

[@12voltvids]

Check the 2 little gears on the loader. They are either white or black plastic if they are the old ones that break. They changed then to metal. Also there is a linkage that the pinch roller pulls when the tape unlaces to release a physical lock on the flm and activate a switch to eject. It's a complicated loader. It was the first VCR that used a front loader

[@jeremytravis360]

In the day I thought Betamax were the best but probably because I owned an SLC9.

[@12voltvids]

Beta did have a better picture but in the end it didn't matter. Same thing is going on today. Vinyl records are still here even though there has been better music sources for 40 years.

[@groovejet33]

so we grew up on BetamaX. Were all Betamax's by Sony?No bloody way? Still in a box & packing? Madness,lol

[@12voltvids]

Sony, Toshiba, sanyo and nec all manufactured their own beta. Sony made zenith and sanyo made sears house brand. Jvc, Panasonic and Hitachi and sharp made up the bulk of the initial vhs camp. RCA for example were Panasonic, then Hitachi then Panasonic again.

[@groovejet33]

@@12voltvids ha ha ha. Wow! As well as all the tech crap you need up in your head to do your job, you also have a library of tech history, unreal. Your some fella, can I have any excess tech crap you could spare? Lol

[@d46512]

36:00 "REGURATOR"?? Haha

[@cubinn149]

U really like working on tape formats eh

[@12voltvids]

Especially old beta lol

[@RixtronixLAB]

Nice video clip, keep it up, thank you for sharing :)

[@heavenplus1]

"SONY"; no more an electronic giant. So sad!

[@markhod1960]

Yep went by the junk side of things

[@martinda7446]

Eh? What do you mean? Revenue: 22.56 trillion JPY (US$206.95 billion, 2021) - Just a giant! (including electronics)

[@heavenplus1]

@@martinda7446 SONY is no more a household name. Cheap gadgets have taken over the consumer market.

[@12voltvids]

Sure they are. I use Sony cameras exclusively. More movies and TV shows are shot on Sony cameras than any other brand. They also have some fantastic TVs

[@markrowe8824]

also one of the few companies supporting physical media with their 4k Blu-ray players plus not forgetting their mega successful games consoles. 🤔🤔

[@wrathofbod]

Haha On The Busses UK TV Show, Classic

[@zx8401ztv]

Yep over complicated mechanism, more is not always better. "Keep it simple stupid" Did you spot the silly spelling on the back of the pcb, REGURATOR :-D Sony made some amazing things, shame they went mad at times.

[@GoldSrc_]

It also says "TO BOOSTOR" lol.

[@shawnjenkins8707]

They looked expensive!!

[@angryshoebox]

I'm surprised the clock display isn't blinking. I remember a lot of consumer electronics that would show 12 o' clock blinking after a power failure back in the '80s, lol.

[@prabhakarratnagiri7265]

No audio

[@12voltvids]

Audio is a 3.5mm mono

[@_._________]

I had an SLF-30 , same awful front loader mechanism.Same fault too , i gleefully binned that pile of sony 'consumer' junk.The only thing I kept was the head drum. Horrible design.

[@12voltvids]

The 30 was a totally different mechanism. This one was only used on the 2500 and 2700

[@_._________]

@@12voltvids Well it may have been different but just as 'reliable', it still failed same way. Sony never failed to fail. I ended up with a modified SLF1 for archive playback of media. Its still working seamlessly.

[@12voltvids]

@@_._________ the FL mech is different, the tape threading the same and the guide pins that fold down were always a problem. Biggest problem was wet cleaner tapes. That would rip parts out and and yet people never accepted responsibility. I have a friend that was caught going 165 in a 100 zone and got their car impounded for a week. Of course it was the cops fault. You know, for being there.