Soul Reaver 2 - Raziel and Kain

[@SktMew]

Yes, Raziel was supposed to kill Kain in this scene, and then, with no one to remove the Reaver from Raziel's chest when it turned on him he would've been drained by the blade, taken to the Avernus cathedral afterwards for the younger Kain to acquire it and slain William, THAT was the circle. The majestically beauty of this paradox is just too great, this is why i love Legacy of Kain series :D

[@AgentOrange921]

holy shit, ive played this game thousands of times and know every god damn word of dialogue but this shit just blew my god damn mind!!!

[@admech590]

Inception ain't got shit on this mindfuck....

[@WisteriaNerium]

He still needed to go to see Janos, I don't know if you know but only the Blood Reaver can absorbe Raziel. Or was that what you were trying to say?

[@nordinreecendo512]

Jake Lancaster Belmont A comment from five days ago?! This may be the most recent comment I've ever seen on a Legacy of Kain video. Usually they're from upwards of five years ago, not five *days!*

[@SoulRippster]

Not only that, by changing the future twice, he ends up resurrecting Janos in Defiance, which wasn't supposed to happen and that's why he shows up in BO2, used by the Hylden Lord to power the so called "Device". And although BO2 is a bit of a fuck up, I'm guessing the timestream is so changed by then that even Vorador survives, which also explains why Moebius is still alive and shows up at the end of Defiance at the Spirit Forge. Guess the execution simply didn't happen as it should've done in the original timestream.

[@CurtisLittlechild92]

Drop a stone into a rushing river, the current simply courses around it and flows on as if the obstruction were never there. That line man.

[@AB-vp9mi]

Tbh, Amy Hennig should buy the rights of this series and make it into a novel.

[@CurtisLittlechild92]

@@AB-vp9mi I'm not really a bookworm. But that would be fire.

[@Unknown_User174]

@@AB-vp9miActually it’s happening.

[@xen3588]

Raziel after hearing kane say that: *damn this mf spittin let me turn around*

[@humansnake2091]

"This is madness!" "Fight it Raziel! This moment, does not have to be an ending, it can become a prelude..." "I can't..." "You can Raziel, look inside and see that it is so, you have the power to reshape our inevitable futures" This dialogue legitemately gave me chills down my spine

[@nordinreecendo512]

HumanSnake Welcome to the beautiful writing of the Legacy of Kain series.

[@jumnei5159]

"poor William..."

[@ichigokiller47]

History abhors a paradox

[@trial_with_an_error9687]

The sheer compassion Kain has for Raziel in this scene is just...god their relationship is so insanely complex and multifaceted, and its such a joy to see good writing in action.

[@BryonYoungblood]

@@trial_with_an_error9687 It is! And shows Kain's true intent was for Raziel to help them BOTH defy what fate had in mind for them, to allow Raziel to not enter the Reaver, while he is seeking to find his way back to become the Scion of Balance, and with what knowledge Kain has from Mobius' time streaming devices, he knows the very real possibilities of what "should" happen. He knew he was meant to die there, but even scared, he actually showed faith in Raziel, even as if Raziel didn't see what Kain was trying to show him, to lead him to make his own decisions truly, rather than let others be the ones to make it for him. Even as it seemed like Kain was trying to guide Raziel to do what _HE_ wanted, he was truly trying to show Raziel he had the power to defy fate itself, yet we see how others tried to use Raziel to do the same, particularly Mobius and his master, the Elder God, due to their fearing Kain because he is the Scion of Balance, the one being who could destroy the Elder God and truly restore balance to Nosgoth.

[@FatalKitsune]

13 years later, this is still some of the best video game writing.

[@KatherinaBathory]

And 14 years later... Still is

[@HasegawaRayven]

They started with a generic tale of Revenge, and it exploded into a world where our protagonists are forced to break reality over their knee just to barely break even with their long-con, scheming, helplessly trapped under a rock Antagonist.

[@Dothreban]

This game came out in 2001. It's 19 years old.

[@jjbarea5810]

When is the sequel to defiance

[@MonsieurBig]

@@jjbarea5810 never

[@jamesderington9141]

I love the quip Kain makes. "Poor William."

[@Brucifer2]

Well considering most souls linger around their bodies unless eaten by slaugh or those reaver things in Defiance...its very possible the Soul Reaver JUST ate William's soul.

[@sylvanochrome]

Just dripping with sarcasm, lingering hatred and regret. It's one of my favorite lines and deliveries across a great deal of media. Only two words, but to understand it requires so much knowledge of his character and his history. Amy Hennig fucking rules.

[@jackalkhan5676]

I'm still a big fan of "Alas poor Nupraptor, I knew him well. Well, not really."

[@Jarock316]

​​@@Brucifer2Reminder, Kain killed William with the Soul Reaver centuries ago, I don't think there was a soul left here.

[@christophermercer8791]

​@@Jarock316 but in this cutscene, Kain chronologically killed him 2 decades prior

[@RanjitSingh-nw9dp]

One of the best games... Crystal Dynamics should have not abandoned it... They did not comprehend the magnitude... The rapture and the tragedy of the moment they decided to abandon it...

[@gronndar]

Crystal Dynamics did not understand that this did not need to be an ending...it could have been a prelude.

[@DogOfHades]

...Or they could have given us a proper final ending instead of a cliffhanger at Defiance.

[@chromasus9983]

@@DogOfHades You might say the series has a history of cliffhangers.

[@Death_Korps_Officer]

@@chromasus9983 Come to think about it, yeah. Every single game ended with a major cliffhanger.

[@soulreaverable]

gronndar Instead we got Nosgoth. This truly is the dark timeline

[@admech590]

"Your fatalism is tiresome....." where was this game in my life when I was a little brat...this writing is phenomenonal.

[@gadwaboy21]

I got my copy from a pawnshop when I was 12 lol

[@wastehazey6468]

LoK perfectly displays how beautiful and poetic the English language can be.

[@slenderminion2229]

Part of makes this scene work so brilliantly is that you can see how terrified Kain is. He is fully aware that Raziel can and wants to kill him even as he tries to convince him not to. For all his arrogance and confidence, for a moment he was well and truly afraid.

[@EyeOfTheMind86]

Well, that's because it already happened countless times, this is where the paradox actually happened.

[@lonewanderer1328]

@@EyeOfTheMind86 Kain’s probably seen this happen in the time chamber soo many times. And lived it up to this point in countless timelines…

[@LutraLovegood]

This is the moment, that one time when the coin landed on it's edge.

[@nordinreecendo512]

I just realized something! I was wondering why the Soul Reaver would allow history to be changed. As Kain says: "How can it be so if history is immutable? The Reaver is the key." It wasn't only the paradox of two instances of the Soul Reaver meeting in time and space, as Kain said, it was the fact that the Soul Reaver contained Raziel's soul, the only entity in Nosgoth who has escaped the wheel of fate and retains his own free will. As such, the freedom of Raziel's soul was inheritted by the Soul Reaver, becoming a weapon capable of freeing itself and its wielder from the flow of history. Alone, Kain may be a mere pebble in the time stream, but with the Soul Reaver, he becomes a boulder capable of redirecting its flow.

[@Rafesco]

In this scene there was only two instances of the Soul Reaver, the Reaver that is in William Grave didn't contain Raziel Soul,it was merely a vampiric weapon, it was at that time when Raziel kills Kain and the Reaver absorb Raziel in order to be one with his wraith counterpart, after this the vampiric blade has the ability to consume souls because Raziel is bound by it, and that blade is what we see in Blood Omen 1 and Soul Reaver 1

[@Jarock316]

@@Rafesco Wrong. Reminder when Raziel first encounters the Blood Reaver, he makes note he does not feel the same sense of displacement he felt when he first encountered the broken Reaver in Williams tomb. The broken reaver in the tomb IS the Soul Reaver.

[@Rafesco]

@@Jarock316 @Jarock316 the reaver that was stole by the sarafan was indeed the Bloodreaver yet at the moment when Raziel kill his human self, there was a temporal displacement not because the reavers but because Raziel mortal blood and Raziel wraith form make contact, that was the catalyst. In this scene I believe that the temporal displacement was created entirely by both the spectral and material reaver and that it was in a mere moments that Raziel and Kain meet their tragic fate.

[@famicom89]

@@Rafesco no, the temporal distortion in that instance was caused by the soul both being inside and outside of the blood reaver at the same time, Raziel explains it very clearly. You could argue that it should've happen again at the end of Defiance but it's a thing that probably got forgotten as they rushed to finish the game

[@Makorze]

​@@famicom89Only the reaver in the tomb contains Raziel's soul. But that other Raziel is ravenous and corrupted from being trapped in the blade, which is why the sword freaks out the way it does. Raziel removes the corruption in defience so the blade can restore Kain.

[@dr_rune]

Raziel accomplishes here no simple feat... By force of will and strength of arm, he contravenes the Timestream itself. And it's all so delicately folded, so subtle... we do not see a colossal beast rushing down at him, or a huge ocean parting at his command... It's only him, choosing not to kill his mentor, when the invisible monstrosity of History compels him otherwise. D.R.

[@Proletarius87]

This is the very Wheel of Fate which is controlled by eldritch being itself. We cannot comprehend indeed.

[@antoniosateriale2076]

Raziel`s Free will and all but Kain dodged that shit pretty well at 4:28

[@ganbareganbare9461]

Omg that shit funny 🤣🤣

[@tarvoc746]

Raziel: "I still revere whatever shred of humanity I manage to preserve!" Human Raziel: "Yeeah... about that..."

[@UncleJunkyard]

You're right. Raziel's arch is extremely satisfying precisely because Raziel paradoxically becomes more humane as he becomes less and less human. Kain, on the other hand...

[@tarvoc746]

@@UncleJunkyard Kain is always a murderous jerkass who sees humans as cattle, but he does become wiser over the course of the games as well imo. Compare his brash and impulsive younger self in the Blood Omen games to the thoughtful planner with a philosopher's spirit that we see in the Soul Reaver games, particularly the later ones.

[@wyqtor]

@@tarvoc746 Kain is also slowly turning toward his stolen destiny, that of the Scion of Balance.

[@zenicehero9154]

Raziel is good Kain is Evil Its simple

[@monkeyman767]

​@@zenicehero9154not even remotely that simple. Kane does undoubtedly evil things, but as we see, it's all in the name of saving Nosgoth (at least from Soul Reaver onwards anyway, he's a dick in BO1, no argument there) he's not good, but he's definitely not evil. He's as he should be, balanced.

[@riteousrighthand6144]

They just don't write game dialogue like this anymore. And that stellar voice acting....

[@BroApollo]

Rdr2 came close

[@LutraLovegood]

There was Koudelka and FF12. And once in a while FF14 harkens back to FF12's writing. But I can't think of anything else.

[@wastehazey6468]

To compare any dialogue from any game that came before or after the LoK series is unfair. It's in a league of it's own. Flawless.

[@riteousrighthand6144]

@@wastehazey6468 agreed.

[@kyliev9777]

“Then continue your journey and learn your own lessons Raziel. Remember, Mobius led you here but you walk away unfettered, a champion of free will and conquerer of false histories. There is much more for you to unearth if you have the heart for truth and the will to see it.” My heart.

[@BryonYoungblood]

Oh yeah. Kain knew the risk of Raziel likely killing him there, which would just lead things to the path they were "meant" to be on, but he wanted Raziel to see he could do so much more... and that he could change their destinies.

[@chadwavecheck]

God I love this writing. The dialogue is perfection.

[@antlohrzlo-ro5538]

Raziel has had free will ever since he awakened in the bowels of the abyss. His unique ressurection is what freed him from the Wheel. Note how Moebius says "You nearly had me, my little blue assassin." in an earlier cutscene, after Raziel leaves Moebius in disgust after nearly killing him. He would not have said that if Raziel did not possess free will, considering his knowledge of Nosgoth's past and future history.

[@rdcarbonk1885]

antlohrz lo-ro the paradox could have allowed raziel to kill moebius back then. and moebieus new it.

[@SoulRippster]

Moebius said that because he had two "soul reavers" (his soul on his arm and his soul inside the sword) and thus could change the timestream at that time, same as in this scene, it's the "vertigo" Raziel talks about. Also the same when he is being absorbed by the sword at the end of SR2, there it's actually Kain that changes the timestream. Fact is, although Raziel has free will, Moebius has a pretty good idea of what he will do, not only because he manipulates him, but also because he can anticipate his most probable actions, he talks about that in Defiance when he says to Kain (on the second chat they have, right at the beginning of the game) something like: "Yes, Raziel's destiny is shrouded from us but we can see the ripples of his potential actions and all of them point in the same direction... he WILL kill you Kain, in sparing him from the sword you signed your own death sentence."... just paraphrasing it.

[@TartarusPyro]

but if none of the have free will and everything is pre destined they should say what they would right i mean they can speak and say what ever they want ? they dont have free will to say what they think

[@Zeithri]

The wonderful thing about Legacy of Kain is that there truly aren't any free will. It is an extremely fatalistic outcome - The only question is how, and when.

[@ryansmith4494]

Zeithri the exception is Raziel.

[@LeviathansTerribleGaming]

It always makes me laugh how Relevant Kain's talks with Raziel are to our current situations.

[@elduderino7456]

That game was so well written, that you actually played to GET to the cutscenes.

[@LeviathansTerribleGaming]

The words "Look inside and see that it is so!" Are probably the most motivational thing to me, just taking those words into their meaning alone even if it's not the full quote, Absolute chills

[@MiguelAngel-qi3ul]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that hears Kain tell me "You can, look inside and see that it so!" whenever I feel like I can't do something.

[@jaden2719]

Poor william

[@252illwill]

Thanks

[@Beastmodeon666]

No fuck william

[@swarmwishes4943]

Perfect first words.

[@badrobot114]

Poor William...

[@DynastyHeroes]

Alas poor Nupraptor i knew him well. Well not really.

[@fedykin87]

Raziel was meant to kill Kain then and there thus ending Kain's part in the 'cycle' but the paradox resulted in Raziel NOT killing him and thus allowing for Kain to save him from the Reaver at the end and thus allowing for Defiance to take place.

[@katiegarcia4160]

Thus allowing Defiance AND Blood Omen 2 to take place..

[@Broomer52]

When I was younger I wondered what Kain meant when he said he saw the end of how this chase ends and that it was “crude and ill conceived” in this moment the end comes. Kain is slain by the blade and Raziel travels just far enough to kill his human self and then dies to the Reaver himself. A meaningless and futile death for both

[@BryonYoungblood]

@@Broomer52 Yup, and tying well to how Kain showed Raziel the reality of it all, something Raziel didn't see because he was wrapped up in his anger at Kain, as well as his failing to see it until it was almost too late.

[@USDebtCrisis]

This is actually the most important moment in the whole series

[@lsmaddog2]

the voice acting in this game is perfect.

[@XJ0461C]

"This is MADNESS!" "THIS IS NOSGOTH!!!"

[@amoiremnia8910]

and here lies, worlds oldest internet relic

[@JN-hs5xl]

the real madness is that the cutscenes aren't skippable in this game, so you have to watch ALL of this. If your game crashed before the next savegame... enjoy your cutscene again.

[@XJ0461C]

@@JN-hs5xl I don’t mind, I love these scenes so much I recite them often. Fantastic writing and acting.

[@Teixas666]

talking his way into a paradox oh boy if he was a lawyer :P

[@BestWayKilla]

"Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I urge you to hear me now, for what you are about to hear is the truth, in all its uncompromising details. At the crucial moment, in which the prosecution alleges the victim was struck down, my client had a choice. To give into his homicidal urges and allow himself to be a pawn of fate, or! To resist it, to assert his will, which he proved he yet possessed, and to stand athwart the terrible destiny that was planned for him. It is my aim to prove to you today, that when presented with this choice, this monumental dilemma upon which his entire future hinged, my client chose to remain unshackled by the cruel hand of fate, and thus defied the machinations of forces greater than he could possibly imagine. Thus, these same forces conspired to rewrite history to suggest my client's guilt, as the depths of their manipulations have proven to be boundless. Knowing these facts, I urge you, ladies and gentlemen of the jury! To come to the obvious revelation that my client is a mere pawn in a sinister game, one who would not be moved about the board with impunity, and who figures to suffer dearly for such defiance, unless you render a verdict of Not Guilty. You too, have the power to challenge destiny, as the coin is still turning. The defense rests." Read in Simon Templeman's voice. I think you're on to something here.

[@Teixas666]

@@BestWayKilla Neat. need either Moebious or the EG as the prosecutor now :V

[@tarvoc746]

@@BestWayKilla Vastly underrated comment.

[@alexanderstilianov]

"You and I are pebbles, Raziel..." One of my favorite lines by Kain. =D

[@UncleJunkyard]

Humility is a rare sight in Kain.

[@Jarock316]

Reminder, the Seer in Blood Omen 2 called Kain a destructive pebble.

[@LutraLovegood]

@@UncleJunkyard Is it really humility when Kain is aware that him and Raziel are instrumental in defying the prime mover?

[@jebusfishy]

I was never particularly interested in reading as a teenager. Instead I have these games to thank for my wide vocabulary.

[@daccount1994]

Raziel is a hero because he looks for the truth before anything else. He's the only one able to find the strings and thus make sure they are destroyed. Kain admires Raziel because he's not interested in simply killing him, but to understand what is going on and listen to Kains information. But Raziel has learned to be extremely cautious, he can't trust anyone until he finds out who is actually the one enslaving others.

[@Joudas]

He tries, twice, in SR1. The first of those attempts is why the wraithblade is bound to him. In SR2, though, Raziel begins to understand that he's being played from all angles, and he doesn't like that, so he does everything he can to resist it. Since his destiny says he should kill Kain here, he resists doing so.

[@krazyllah]

"Poor William" XD

[@jimhuffman9434]

Kain killed William in "Blood Omen" then Raziel desecrates William's sarcophagus here. So "poor William" indeed

[@turel6147]

By the FUCKING GODS! How did they let this masterpiece die!

[@ganbareganbare9461]

This game will never die. The blue vampire with scarf on his face is one of my core memories when I was little my dad played soul reaver 2. Years later about month ago I accidentally come across video or something and I played the first 2 soul reavers. All the games I played soul reaver 2 despite technical limitations is the best written story next maybe one title.

[@orlandoalessandrini2505]

I love how the game addresses issues of free will, determinism, destiny, fate etc. My favorite thing about the story, however, is how we see time travel as it happens, how it would look from the perspective of those who are committing the changes to the timeline and how those results would play out.

[@kyokashivii7]

keep your distance, Kain.... that line makes me feel like it actually happen in real life as if we saw a clip of a moment. the voice acting is so amazing i want a remake

[@elliej354]

Haven’t played LoK in over a decade, and had started to think that maybe my fond memories of the dialogue and voice acting were just the product of nostalgia and being quite young and impressionable at the time. But honestly, this is fantastic stuff, even now.

[@MagpieDynamics]

I could listen to these two snipe at each other for a millennia.

[@1Synner]

People, i'm about to blow your mind. You know how Kain talks about how history and fate are ultimately circular, and will always repeat? Let me ask you this... How many times have you played the game? How many times have you seen this "history" repeat itself?...

[@m.r.1514]

First comment in 8 years... holy shit!

[@Death_Korps_Officer]

According to the creators, the numbers of the paradoxes are only there because they are the first time we see them, but they are nowhere near the first time they were played. This circle has been orchestrated and played over and over again.

[@moistenvelopes]

Bro

[@Gonzaloch95]

I played this game 3 or 4 times and the others... Ten years ago probably and now i am watching the scenes of this interesting game and his concept or idea to think about... And i am very sure that i probably will play or watch many videos in the future of my life to watch one of the very profound game , with a high state of mind or thinking, thanks to create this underated gem... I want a remake or remasterization of thisss... Please jeje Greetings dudessss!

[@thiagocardoso5533]

“Poor William “

[@jimhuffman9434]

First he gets killed by Kain. Then, his carcass gets impaled by Raziel

[@thiagocardoso5533]

Jim Huffman Just like Mobious killed by Kain, and devoured in the spiritual realm by Raziel! Kain said even said “So you enjoy death?”

[@dannyb9209]

This scene absolutely blew me away when I was younger...it still does. Soul Reaver 2 has to be one of my favourite game's...it pains me it is unfinished.

[@NeoDMC]

"Poor William"...I love that line.

[@MortSalazar]

Damn, the heart? That detail went completely over my head It's been years and only now I notice the scar on Kain And the flags in the chamber, the Elder God's eye Man I was way too dumb to play this game as a kid

[@Incredisuper]

"Show yourself, Kain." "Here, Raziel. Everything begins, here..."

[@macsdude]

this is one of my favorite scenes in the whole series

[@Gyrannon]

Imagine if another Blood Omen were to be made that is dated after Defiance and covers the Younger Kain from his murder as a human to the Pillars Collapse. Few things would be changed: - William who was known as The Nemesis in Kain's Vampire form would never exist. - Vampires would be more easily recognizable thanks to the fact that Moebius galvanized the people to take vengeance against the vampire for killing their beloved king. - There'd be a chance of young Kain seeing his older self & Raziel. - The Hylden would be more revealing than in previous games since they know about BO2's events. Plus I'd love to see how Young Kain acquires the Soul Reaver when older Kain possessed it. When you think about it, the events of Blood Omen 1 to Defiance are changed immensely because of the changes made by Older Kain & Older Raziel. Seriously, think about it. How much has REALLY changed?

[@gilgamesh310]

Wasn’t the change regarding William already made in BO1? Kain causes the paradox in that game, it’s just explained here. Most other events would need to okay out the same as before. Raziel’s path from Soul Reaver 1 onwards couldn’t be altered much, because if it was he wouldn’t be able to get to where he ended up in Defiance. I don’t think that much changed overall.

[@Rafesco]

The changes are that after defiance is that the soul reaver and kain are finally cleansed and purified never before has ocurred that, and with that the wheel of fate can be changed. The ending of defiance is inmediatly after the events of Blood Omen 1, so in theory the true ending of the story is followed after Blood Omen 1

[@Niyucuatro]

Rther than retelling the first game. I would rather see what happens after blood omen 2 and defiance. So basically what the cancelled dark prophecy game was going to be.

[@Gyrannon]

@@gilgamesh310 Yes, BO1 had altered quite a bit already. But note that Kain grew up knowing of William when he was "William the Just". How would Kain's NEW SELF react to William's murder? What about the Guardians who were corrupted by Naprator's madness? And the last bit, Kain first acquired the Soulreaver in BO1 in some ruin/temple. So is the physical Soulreaver that his younger self would acquire, is that in the ruin/temple OR is it in Current Kain's hands? A ton has changed, Kain's own past has drastically changed due to the times he went back an altered the past - First by killing William before he became the Nemesis, then after convincing Raziel not to kill him at William's temple, and then finally where he altered Raziel's fate. If you grew up and was molded by the events caused by a mass murdering lunatic who was originally well-loved by many, then you go back in time & kill that person before they become evil, how much of your own past has changed? You wouldn't grow up knowing of this well-loved person becoming evil, cause it never happened. Thats what I'm talking about.

[@Whykickamoocow]

Bloody awesome series. I wish we had more

[@theycollectus]

Best Anti-Hypocrisy story ever told...It mirrors real life in so many ways

[@Siriathion]

A meeting of Moebius, Kain and Doctor Who would probably destroy our minds xD

[@ServantOfOdin]

Oh that would be epic..... The Doctor (D) "'Ello... Who're you?" Moebius (M)"I am Moebius, th..." D "Fancy name, pal." M "I am the Time-Streamer." D "Time 'Streamer'? What's that, you're streaming time, the whole time? Gotta be boring, right?" M "..." D "And you? Silent fella with your wrinkly skin an' white hair? Like that tho...." Kain (K) "I am Kain." D "Ok. Nice meeting y'all. Any idea why we're where? And .. where 'here' actually is?" M/K *shrug* D "Great... me neither." K "Who might you be?" D "I'm the Doctor. I'm a Time-Lord." M "Time-Lord?" D "Yea. Jealous, 'streamer'?"

[@LutraLovegood]

It probably would end poorly for Moebius and the Elder God.

[@ultrainstinctbroly4333]

this story is timeless, so timeless that a company is remastering it as we speak

[@Ohem1]

Over 10 years, just pointing that out.

[@TheJboy88]

And still as great a scene as it was back then :)

[@Ohem1]

Indeed it is.

[@zmajooov]

16 year old game, it came out in 2001.

[@freethespacemen]

18

[@davidarden4472]

19 years now

[@amez643]

I hate Kain but the fact that he trusts Raziel’s strength of character to not only defy and defeat history’s command to kill him but also for him to put off his revenge is amazing

[@rikybj0276]

0:25 everything really was decided there if kain died that was it

[@joaogrrr]

Been almost a decade and a half, but this is the first time I realize Kain's final words to Raziel are more an admittance of admiration, if anything.

[@UncleJunkyard]

He should. Raziel was a prick when he was a human, yes, but he has been manipulated at every turn, by evreyone, including Kain. And he still has the heart to break all his shackles by sheer force of will. In the end, he makes the choice Kain couldn't and potentially saves Nosgoth.

[@Oz1455]

I barely played Defiance, but this is definitely my favourite scene of the series so far. I always come back to it, because I can take it into my own life and learn something from it. Truth is, even we as normal humans, we are compelled. Day to day, do you not feel a rush to do something, even though it's not always what you want or best for you? It literally feels like being compelled into a script being layed out, and simply going against it is extremely hard.

[@RealGateGuardian]

This wasn't from Defiance, it's from Soul Reaver 2.

[@Moe_Lester_fromUptwn]

Jeez, that analogy about the futility of pebbles to the stream-flow.... My core is touched...

[@Lapoubelle-t9d]

17 years old damn ...

[@Joudas]

@pnelad14 Well, one of the keys to the storyline (as far as this game is concerned) is that at the end, when the Reaver turns on Raziel, Kain is there to stop it from devouring him, breaking the cycle Raziel found himself in... this exhumes Raziel from the Elder God's 'circle', and grants him free will, ultimately allowing for the mostly happy conclusion of the series - none of which would have been possible if Kain had died here. :)

[@LutraLovegood]

So what you're saying is that it was destined to happen.

[@meherenow793]

"Keep your distance, Kain." *immediately steps forward* 🤣

[@ambientsoda106]

Best vampire, alien and changing the future game ever! Story and voice acting was well ahead of its time...

[@zensurordnung2868]

One of the best dialogue video games I ever played.

[@AnthonyPrayHubertBible]

My vote I'm voting today Jacob Hornberger Raziel and Kain,discussion is awesome.

[@Yo-yo-ma150]

Kain speaks in paradoxes this whole scene. “You can’t comprehend and yet you must”. He is trying to introduce a fatal paradox to unhinge history itself. Kain is a great antagonist who has to contend with destiny and has no other choice but to come out on top

[@thomasmorato5098]

In this game, he is basically a Deuteragonist unlike in Soul Reaver 1.

[@KhydroDjent]

i love this "keep your distance kain...." sounds bad ass

[@Joudas]

Of course if he had, he'd have damned himself to the purgatorial cycle Kain liberates him from, so it was actually in his best interest to do exactly what he did in this situation; he had no way of knowing this at the time, but the path you prescribe for him would have been disastrous.

[@nathanlittlefield3464]

The writer of these games was phenomenal any word play

[@Faesome]

Hmmmm... Vorador made the Reaver for Janos (pre-games). Janos had the Reaver until he was murdered by the Sarafan (SR 2). The Sarafan who killed Janos took the Reaver to the citadel. Moebius indirectly gave the Reaver to Wraith!Raziel. Raziel had the Reaver and killed all his Sarafan Era bros with it and had it until it turned on him, at which point Kain yanked it out of his chest. Then Kain has it for the duration of LoK: Defiance. Uuuuhh, yannow I can't answer your question. Dang :(

[@MrPrajitura]

GOD DAMN this dialogue is SO GOOD !!!!!!!

[@horusrage]

The Reaver we see at this point was the broken one from the normal time stream. Kain (future kain) at some point must leave behind the Reaver after the Defiance Game inorder for his past self to have it. But because of time travel that can be at any time in Kain (future) upcoming timeline. He never took it from Vorador however he (his agents) took it from Janos Audron the Reaver guardian since then it has become lost ... but as Vorador made the reaver he can make the same look in a new blade.

[@xen3588]

the scene that made everyone like kain

[@akrammeziane9979]

Masterpiece the only game you play for the sake of the beautiful story rather than enjoying battles

[@AugustoCuervo-hx9pr]

The paradox can also be described with the Tarot. If Raziel let things flow naturally, Kain dies (The Death card), but if he decides to save Kain, there is a cataclysm (The Tower card). Therefore, a paradox is described as a collapse of those things that we planned, tumbling down. It's destiny being forced to change, death postponed. In conclusion, Kain is in fact, manipulating Raziel to change the future of Nosgoth (on his own perspective). While Raziel is blindly believing (pure faith) because of the injustices made to all the creatures on Nosgoth.

[@dr_rune]

@twing101 The Reaver, along with the Heart of Darkness, were stolen by the Seraphan when they killed Janos. They were both in their stronghold and, from there, Moebius took the Reaver to William, and Mortanius took the Heart and raised Kain as a Vampire with it. D.R.

[@owendemoney]

Why is legacy of kain so fucking awesome

[@LutraLovegood]

Incredible writing, for starters.

[@Joudas]

"Madness? This... is... Nosgoth!"

[@TheRealBDouble]

4:04 - Kain standing there at swordpoint never ceases to make me laugh for some reason.

[@TheAbominableDrFaustus]

Even the music. God damn…. Poor William.

[@zenicehero9154]

That scene at 0:10 Shows n tells alot About Raziel of how he cares about humans and is a Hero with Honor, Integrity and is disgusted by Kain lack of remorse

[@nordinreecendo512]

Could you elaborate?

[@KingLich451]

​@@nordinreecendo512Well, he was one of them, once. Though he didnt knew at this point.

[@samweirich5973]

Coming back to this game man years later as an adult I now see just how truly incredible the writing was. In Kain's original timeline, William the Just becomes the Nemesis. If fate truly does exist, and if history is immutable and cannot be altered, then how was Kain able to defeat William and thus prevent him from becoming the Nemesis? The answer as Kain puts it, is in the Soul Reaver. The Soul Revear that Kain wielded against William actually had the soul of Raziel in it, which has free will which was what allowed Kain to defeat William and thus create a time paradox. ABsolutely incredible writing.

[@Joudas]

Definitely agree with you, these games were absolute masterpieces of storytelling. I'm so stoked that they're getting remastered, means a whole new generation of folks will get to experience them.

[@ChaldeaWarmaster]

@@Joudas This game alone expanded my vocabulary in more ways than you can ever imagine. I owe my life to this franchise. More than anyone can understand.

[@kizami3]

"That you and Moebius have impelled me to this means I can trust neither of you."

[@RAYZORSEDGE]

you are not the only one, there are many fans who pieced it all together including myself. It was obvious when Kain mentioned in SR1 that he saw their destinies and what was to become of them. Not to mention when he plainly stated that "there were to be more twist as the drama unfolds completely" That right there should of hinted to all that he knew.

[@magnawiz]

It's cool how you can time the music to start the cutscene whenever. So if you wait till a certain cue in the music to start a cutscene, the climax of the music could be heard during a cool moment in the cutscene. In this case, Joudas has the climax of the music when Raziel is talking. I like to run pass the enemies so the music would be fit into the cutscene in way that would have the moment where Raziel is struggling to change time be the climax of the music.

[@RedneckSith]

Back when game writing didn't treat gamers like idiots. If this is Shakespeare, then most modern games are pop-up books.

[@LutraLovegood]

Judging by what gamers consider good writing in a video game, I have some bad news about gamers.

[@LoneDragoon90]

@SerialKiff3r Kain has been purified of Nupraptor's corruption by Raziel's spirit reaver - once he returns to his own time, the pillars will be restored and the other 8 guardians will be born. Presumably, Kain will have to convert them to Vampirism to sustain the binding of the pillars. Blood Omen 2 is also on the new timeline created by Kain saving Raziel from being devoured at the end of SR2 - there are still parts of that that need clearing up.

[@RAYZORSEDGE]

thus, Kain had to let Raziel discover the truths, and to guide him through nosgoths history to let Raziel unveil events that led Kain to his dicisions.

[@RAYZORSEDGE]

the only debate I still think about, is if Kain really intended on Raziel to enter the Reaver the way he was destined to. When he suggested to Raziel that it couldnt be the way, the author made it seem as if Kain wanted Raziel to unlock the reavers accordingly but to not sacrifice himself within the blade. Through out the entire Story from Soul Reaver, Kain started showing heart to Raziel as a friend, but knew that Raziel really couldnt forgive him of his gamble.

[@Ivantheterrible81280]

“We have always met here”. You have always been the Caretaker.

[@DragonNexus]

What always bugged me about these cutscenes is regardless of how well done they were, most of them were not given their own musical score. The developers just allowed the ambient level music to trundle along in the background, killing a lot of the tension.

[@brojuiceunderfoot5765]

I agree but somehow they got some good ass music in there. Those strings around 5:00 onward do excellently to build tension but now yoi havw me wondering that the music might be synced totally differently as a result of timing and the gameplay music marching on no matter how slow or fast you play it

[@VipericVampire]

That's the answer I was looking for! Thank you so much!

[@Joudas]

Yes - this is ultimately what brought about the near extinction of the vampire race, and it was all orchestrated by Moebius.

[@wastehazey6468]

"A champion of free-will and conqueror of false histories."

[@Evzais]

"poor William"

[@bruceharrip]

Best cutscenes in all of gaming .

[@SharkRoach1]

If the game writing is too difficult to understand the first time through playing the game, then its too damn good for you to understand. That's why I love this shit. tween year old me had zero clue what was happening.But it was all worth it to finally figure it out.

[@Watcher40K9]

There are two things I would absolutely love to see from this game series: 1) The timeline of Mobius, from birth until final death. We don't know whether his scheme with The Nemesis was the first time he altered the timestream. 2) The timeline of Raziel's soul, from birth until freed from the prison of the Reaver. There are significant unknowns in the timeline, such as what point in its lifetime was it wielded by William? Understanding just how ancient the blade could be as it jumped through the timeline, just how much time passes for Raziel's soul, would be very insightful.

[@SlyTribal]

If Raziel killed Kain, everything afterwards would still of happened. Raziel heading to the past, all of it would still happen as it was destiny. Only thing is, Kain wouldn't of been there to take the Soul Reaver out of Raziel, hence he would of been absorbed then and there.

[@dr_rune]

Woxl3097 just answered your doubt, man =). This is a masterfully created storyline. D.R.

[@PerceptionVsReality333]

Poor William...

[@AnthonyPrayTheRosary]

great video.! Intriguing, Entertaining.

[@99percenthotgas]

But if Kain killed William with the Reaver, and Raziel just carved the tomb (and body inside) again, didn't history just repeat itself? Or something?

[@Teixas666]

the event that is supposed to happen in this scene was Raziel Killing Kain, by not doing so , someone was there to pull the reaver out of him when it turned on raziel if everything happened as planned, raziel would have been absorbed by the blade at the end of Sr2, moebius would find the blade and move it ot Avernus where the young Kain would find it

[@Jarock316]

Originally, Raziel was to kill Kain here and continue on his journey. Raziel would go on to meet Janos, kill the Sarafan inquisitors, including his past self, then be forcibly imprisoned into the Reaver. Moebius would then take the blade and hide it in the Avernus catacombs for a fledging Kain to find. But sparing Kain allowed Kain to postpone Raziel's fate. Raziel does enter the reaver as seen in Defiance, but on his own accord. Kain uses it to hunt down the Elder God and finishes him once and for all. Kain then places the reaver in the Avernus catacombs for his fledgling self to find.

[@OiDave69]

i think your exactly right, its nice to know im not the only person who bothered to piece it all together.:).. i would however assume that when kain saw raziels wings he knew he was destined as a saviour, and gambled on the idea that raziel was immortal becaue he was indespensable to fate. i would assume destroying the reaver on him was also a gamble which paid off.

[@beautygoddess13]

@SerialKiff3r Even so the Elder God will still feed on the souls, because as he said... he is eternal, as long as the world exists he will be there to give the long speeches and feed endlessly. Kain just sort of trapped him for him to escape, thus his fate is unkown and i doubt Kain would kill himself knowing everything he knows.

[@LutraLovegood]

He is a deceiver. I would not trust his words on this matter.

[@kingraizan3826]

Man they need to bring this back

[@77daud45]

18 years later, this game still looks better than defiance and is the Pinnacle of game writing