Sound for Video Session: Zoom F8/F8n Setting Gain Trim

In this week’s session, we share an excerpt from the upcoming online course, “Getting the Most From Your Zoom F8/F8n Recorder.” In this particular segment, we cover how to set the gain trim, the various track knob modes, and demonstrate how to optimize your gain in relation to the limiters. Lots of fun!
Please consider my sound for film classes available over at school.learnlig...
Gear and links discussed/used to record this episode:
Zoom F8n Audio Field Recorder (2018):
Amazon: geni.us/aXim
B&H: bhpho.to/2JvAnmj
Zoom F8 Audio Field Recorder (2015):
Amazon: geni.us/QxIg1
B&H: bhpho.to/2rsxWKr
Copyright 2018 by Curtis Judd
Outro music licensed from Artlist: Keep an Eye by Back to Dream. Artlist provides high quality music tracks for your film and video projects. You can receive two months off an Artlist account by using our link: artlist.io/art...
Ethics statement: Some of the links above are Amazon.com, B&H Photo, or other affiliate links.

[@leejohnson.]

BRO I LITERALLY KNEW NOTHING FROM THIS MIXER NOW I KNOW THE INS & OUTS. LOVE YOUR CONTENT BRO KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK YOU'RE DESTINED FOR GREATNESS MY MAN

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Thanks, will do!

[@ravipillaisikkim]

Hi Curtis, My name is Ravi Pillai. I am from Gangtok, Sikkim ,India. We are close to Tibet. I have been watching your videos and it has been very helpful for me to understand many things in audio. Thank you so much. you are a blessing to people like me.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks, Ravi. Happy recording!

[@chrisluong5928]

Great video. I just got feedback from a sound mixer explaining I needed to check my gain vs my level and this video cleared up a lot of uncertainties!

[@curtisjudd]

Great news - thanks for the feedback and happy mixing!

[@arlenebowman2085]

Thank you your instruction with Zoom 8fn pro multi track field recorder helped me a lot to get started.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

👍

[@Medic0013]

Just got my F8n from B and H. This video was perfect timing for me. Thank you Curtis for your hard work!

[@curtisjudd]

Congrats on the new recorder! Happy recording! 🎤

[@marcorossi2182]

I am using my F8n whenever I record and buying your guide was the best investment I could ever do! Thanks for this great content :-)

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Thanks Marco!

[@RayOrtega]

Just now catching up to the F8n and wow, didn't know they put in auto-mix and you can record to card while also using as an interface! Fantastic upgrade! Loving these walkthroughs, great work as always.

[@smalltalk.productions9977]

as someone new to the zoom f4, this vid is very helpful. thank you for the effort and the sharing. i am an a appreciative subscriber. thumbs up.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

👍🏻

[@mcgreevs24]

You’re a lifesaver as always! Thanks Curtis!!!

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

🙏

[@andylevison]

Great job on this tutorial! It got me up and running on the F8n. Very helpful! Thank you, Curtis!

[@curtisjudd]

You're welcome 👍 Happy recording!

[@Mile26point2films]

I would love an F8 course, just brush up a bit on my skills since it is my primary recorder. Can't wait to see when it's available!

[@curtisjudd]

Standby! Should be here near the end of this summer.

[@instructormatt_]

Looking forward to the course!

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

👍

[@IvanEngler]

professional information. thank you.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Thanks Ivan.

[@jingleskhanaudioproductions]

Hey Curtis this was very helpful. Thank you!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks 🙏

[@Glen.Danielsen]

As usual, clearly spoken information designed to be understood. Thankful for Curtis’ channel. 💛😎

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Glen!

[@leebyrd723]

Excellent overview. One correction on the Advanced Limiter. "Target Level" is not equivalent to "Threshold" as described in the video. I also initially made this same assumption based on traditional limiter controls and operation, however the Advanced Limiter works quite differently and its operation is unfortunately not clearly documented. "Target Level" is a "never to exceed" setting, rather than a traditional threshold level at which limiting begins to be applied. If you set Target Level to -6dBfs, recorded audio will not peak above -6dBfs, and the actual threshold will be considerably lower. It is not overtly clear what the actual threshold is for the Advanced Limiter at various "Target Level" settings, but the change in level-meter indications on the display when Advanced Limiting is switched on hints at it (note that the meters no longer tops out at 0dBfs but rather shifts the 0dB point lower (threshold presumably) and displays a +dB range above that in which limiting is presumably taking place. It is a 1ms look ahead type digital limiter that appears to apply a variable ratio that increases from 1:1 to infinity (follows a some progressive curve rather than a linear progression above threshold) as signal increases toward Target Level. Because I am only interested in recording isolated channels and am not recording or outputting a live stereo mix, I keep this set to 0dB for all channels to maximize available dynamic range. I imagine a lower Target Levels might be useful when manually riding mix levels or automixing. I hope this helps. Much confusion about the actual operation of the Advanced Limiter in recording forums.

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Lee, very much appreciate the additional detail!

[@supercoolclark]

Very helpful video, Thanks Curtis!

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks!

[@LivingSpiritism]

I record monthly podcasts with a group of Brasilians. It's SO hard to set the gain correctly for them. During the sound checks they NEVER talk as loud as they will during the recording, and then while we're recording they always interrupt each other, talk over one another, and then they start speaking louder and louder and louder. I think maybe in your Sound For Video Session with Allen Cavedo he mentions that people never talk as loud during sound checks as they will during the performance. It's definitely tricky to set the gain correctly. But thankfully since I enrolled in your online course 9 months ago I've been training my ears, so to speak, and I get a little better every time. It's just practice, practice, practice. Thanks, Curtis!

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, practice, indeed! Multi-person discussions are one of the harder ones, especially groups that talk over one another. Good reason to leave plenty of headroom when gain staging. Fortunately, it sounds you work with these guys regularly so you know what to expect. Keep it up!

[@LivingSpiritism]

Unfortunately I'm stuck with these people... lol... but I'm very fortunate to have them, as an opportunity for me to test new ideas, new equipment, and hone the craft. And they don't really care if I capture perfect audio... they just think I have a terrible obsession. I believe that some day all the effort I put into this "passion project" will pay off, somehow.

[@curtisjudd]

Absolutely! Great perspective.

[@ravipurushothaman5977]

Thank u sir I will trading for ur class sir nice

[@curtisjudd]

Thanks Ravi and happy recording!

[@rolax2339]

Thanks alot! Great explanation!

[@curtisjudd]

👍

[@SkyCoreLLC]

I just got the F8N Pro, would like to see a updated version of this with 32 bit in mind. also hope for a small 32 bit float update on the F8N class that I paid for but don't remember how to get back to it.

[@curtisjudd]

You will see an update to the course. My F8n Pro just arrived yesterday. I'll need to run through everything to determine everything that changed but I suspect not much has changed. We will certainly have a new video segment in the course that covers setting gain when recording 32-bit float. The course is over at School.LearnLightAndSound.com. I'll need a few weeks to make the updates.

[@GFFmatt]

An F8 course? I’m in!

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Coming soon!

[@markowens8255]

Thanks for clearing this up about the fader mode, I have and F4 and thought there was something wrong with my F4 because when I turned the Knob down nothing moved then I turned it up all the way and then back and it started to work, thanks know I know its not a problem with my F4

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Your F4 is working as designed. 👍

[@sigridlee3743]

I noticed the same thing: Hey what's going on?? Good to know it is "normal."

[@photowalk.podcast]

Hi Curtis, you reference the mixing section at 4.30 - the difference between trim and faders. Can you tell me where that video is please so that I may watch that. Kindest, Neale

[@RapunzelASMR]

My audio when I transfer to pc keeps being way too low. When I record it goes to -20db on the viewfinder even when I whisper louder (I do asmr so I whisper all the time). What am I doing wrong?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi, it sounds like maybe you're not setting gain trim high enough. Or remember, you can boost the levels in post.

[@RapunzelASMR]

@@curtisjudd yeah I might have to up it a lot. Somehow the recorder liked to stay around that -20 point

[@josvleugels2061]

Thanks for all your videos.I,m a musician and have bouth the roland r 07.What do you think off this recorder.greetings Jos from Holland.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Hi Jos, I haven't used the Roland R07, but my very first audio interface was a Roland and I really liked it. Great build, great audio quality. How have you liked the R07 so far?

[@bernardopsc52]

Can I ajust the iso tracks during the recording using the fader instead of the trim/gain? The same way a professional recorder would do. On a narrative film environment where you could be using 7 lav mics and 1 boom, the iso tracks are the most important thing and the stereo mix is only used as a reference for post production, since there are only two channels for 8 individual mics. In today standards for sound in narrative filmmaking I don't see this recorder being really useful if you can't fine tune the iso tracks during the recording, the way you can on a SD 788 for example

[@bernardopsc52]

And by the way. Does the SD 633 give you this option, of live iso adjustment, like a SD 788 or Zaxcom Nomad would? I'm thinking on moving to the 633 due to the limitations I've been having with the zoom f8

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Yes, you can. Basic mode does this as does custom mode with the channel know a in basic mode.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Yes, there is a separate trim knob.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Also, you can adjust trim with the F8/F8n channel knobs, just need to change the channel knob setting.

[@RedBearAK]

I'd like to see how you would manage something in a "live" situation like a live-streaming podcast, where you have to have the sound at a good audible level while you're recording rather than when you have the option to normalize and otherwise bring quiet levels up in post.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Hi RedBear AK, I'd add some processing to compress and add make-up gain on the mix at least, on the isolated channels too, if possible. But I haven't done live broadcast before. I need to have that experience. 😀

[@fragdenstein]

Hi Curtis, great video, thank you so much! I have one question: Which type of meter can I find in more consumer like recorders like the Tascam DR-70D?

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Usually a peak dBFS meter such as most of the Tascam’s (all of the DR series, I believe)

[@dylankissel3301]

This is so helpful! I see in the video you are using an external battery for power. I have not been able to find where I can purchase one of those. Could anyone help out and point me in the right direction to find one?

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Yes, they're quite expensive but make like much easier. Here's one of the least expensive ways to get all-day power for your Zoom F4/F8: JuiceBox V-Mount Battery: geni.us/ce4BA P-Tap to 4 Pin Hirose Cable: amzn.to/2NWjlQO

[@dylankissel3301]

Curtis Judd Audio thank you!

[@alrivera1084]

That is called match n grab.

[@josephthrower2839]

What mic are you using for this Video? All of your recordings are always clear and perfectly balanced.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Joseph, In this case, I used the Sennheiser MKH8050: bhpho.to/2zozur3

[@guillemg7026]

using the mini XLR main out outputs to monitors ..

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Can do.

[@daledervin3672]

I would really appreciate this exact video, but for the F6. I'm very confused with how 32 bit float removes the need for gain control, but I still think I need to set levels with the faders?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Dale, yes, the F6 records each channel post-fader so you should set the faders to a reasonable level.

[@DaCarnival]

Just a quick question to make sure I've got this absolutely clear: the fader level has no effect on the ultimate fidelity of my recording? That is to say, neither any clipping nor the presence of the noise floor are affected by the fader, only the trim/gain? Faders are only for the mixdown recording and/or live mix? If I then foresee processing and mixing my recording myself in post, shouldn't I only be concerned with getting the trim right (and thus run the F8 in trim mode)? This has always puzzled me for on-set recording for narrative film - where the only purpose of live mixing seems to be to make a convenient mixdöwn for dalies and perhaps editing, while the actual sound post-production will understandably make their own mix from scratch....

[@curtisjudd]

Hi DaCarnival, The fader affects the stereo mix recording but not the isolated channel recordings, correct. You certainly can take the approach to just worry about the trims and even disable the mix recording, just capturing the isolated microphone channels. For narrative film and TV, the post team will use the stereo mix IF it is good. And there are some very good production sound mixers out there who have a separate boom op and utility so they can focus on the mix. The post team then just drops in isolated channels where necessary.

[@DayDreamSound]

Hello. I am Sound designer living in South Korea. I recently bought a Zoom F8n and I have a question. I am going to record using several microphones, and I am going to save the recording to L R Track with Auto Mix on. However, LR Track does not have the ability to turn on the limiter. After experimenting, each track does not have clipping, but a combined Mix File creates clipping. How should I overcome this problem?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi DayDreamSound, I'll need to look more closely, but I believe the faders allow you to adjust each channel's contribution to the mix, even with AutoMix on. So you'll want to pull those faders back a bit.

[@DayDreamSound]

@@curtisjudd Thank you for your answer. If you have time, could you check on this part? I know that a low dose of Gain solves the problem, but it's a problem if you take it small when several people talk. In addition, there are times when eight people laugh at the same time, so you won't be able to get a big response, and then you'll have a problem talking quietly. I used to use Sound Device Mixpre-6 before, but Mixpre-6 has a Limiter in the Main L R so I can receive it comfortably.

[@alizohoori-o5u]

On the ZoomF8Npro,I set my trim to my desired amount, then use the knob on my tracks for Fading the levels. It all works and sounds fine while I am recording the levels. But once I playback, it only plays the file at my set trim level. None of the fader controls were recorded even though I could hear them while recording. I have tried this in all three recording modes (Trim, Fader, and Mixer) and they all result in the same outcome. I took the SD cards out and played them back in my computer and the issue is still there. It seems like it only records the Pre-Fade audio files instead of the Post-Fade files with my fader levels. This happens on all recorder settings and each input. If there is anything I am doing wrong then please let me know. I am incredibly open to advice and questions, just trying to figure it out. I have experience on other Sound Devices recorders and I am somewhat new to the Zoom F8N pro recorders. Part of me feels like there is something obvious that I am missing. Thanks

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

The faders ONLY affect the stereo mix. Record the stereo mix and you’ll have those fader effects.

[@adobemastr]

Curtis, I clicked on one of the B&H links provided in the video description concerning the zoom, the older model. I was surprised to read this disturbing review by Justin. Have you seen this and what do you think of the problem he addresses? If true, I don’t think I would recommend this particular recorder: “I purchased this recorder to use in a professional documentary filmmaking and corporate video production environment. I made my purchase from BH in mid June 2017. Unfortunately I did not discover the absolutely massive flaw in this unit until about two months later, when BH would no longer take a return and Zoom customer support (the specific gentlemans name I was working with is John Molfetas, who is labeled Zoom Customer support) would jerk me around for several months after, claiming the problems with the unit are my fault. Flaw 1: The Zoom F8 has two SD card slots, making it's user think you have a back up card, in case the first card errors out. The problem is if Card 1 has a writing error, it will cause Card 2 to also have a writing error, causing you to lose everything. I believe this is because the unit is seeing both cards as one, instead of two individual cards (probably to save onlicensing). The Zoom Support staff tried to claim that it was user error because I did not perform a full test of my card (which takes two hours for a 128gb Sandisk Extreme Pro). Almost all of my professional gear has two card slots, which the primary point is to have a full quality back up in case a card has a write error, it is totally insane that if one card in you Zoom F8 fails, it will destroy both cards audio files. TLDR: The Zoom F8 is twice as likely to have a writing error, destroying all of your files as a unit with only one card will have. Flaw 2: On more than one occasion I have booted the unit up and have had multiple channels not function at all, even after reassigning the PFL settings and disabling the channels. When this happens, the unit has to reboot, which takes a while. This is a very concerning flaw, as there seems to be deep seeded issues with this audio recorders firmware. Final Thoughts: I very very much wanted to love this unit, when I initially purchased it, I assumed it would be the last audio recorder I ever had to buy. My company lost a large amount of money due to lost files on a job and when I took my concerns to Zoom, hoping they would be excited to hear about a unknown bug, they simply insulted me by totally ignoring my concerns. Zoom has proven it self to not be a professionals company, producing nothing but prosumer gear for amateurs. The quality control clearly is not high enough to depend on their equipment. Justin”

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Roy, good question. Sounds concerning. I can say, as an additional data point, that I've had a copy of the F8 since 2015 and have not experienced the two issues that Justin experienced. I've also have an F4 since 2016 and, likewise, have not experienced these issues. Justin's point about the dual cards seems plausible, but I have not experienced any card read/write issues using SanDisk 90MB/s cards. These are relatively older, slower cards. It seems based on things I've hear other people say that some of the newer, faster cards are where the problems occur. I have no way to validate that because I've been using the same slower cards the entire time. As for the inputs not working at boot-up, I also have not experienced that. Justin is the first person I've heard complain about that. I'm not saying others haven't also experienced this issue, but I would invite them to post here and elsewhere if they have. We need more data points to assess whether Justin's experience is isolate or widespread. Based on what I have read to date, it doesn't seem widespread. I'd say we need more data. My data points suggest reliability so far with the F8, F4, and now the F8n.

[@adobemastr]

Curtis Judd Good points, Curtis. More validation is indeed necessary.

[@parkmedia]

Hi Curtis, I just heard about an irritating clicking noise when adjusting gain - even during recording. I remember this noise from my first Edirol R-09. It made unusable the recorder for professional work. So I'm just curious, if you can adjust the gain (trim) during recording without any issues? Thank you!

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Hi Szathmári, Yes, the gain trim is continuous on the F8 and F8n so you should not hear clicking while adjusting.

[@parkmedia]

Thank You very much, Curtis.

[@craigjackson7143]

I love this series - have a quick question though: I'm using a Lectro SRC receiver going via a line-input to my f8n. In regards to signal-to-noise. When I engage the 1k tone on the F8n - it comes out at -20db. On the SRC - the Tone set at '0' it comes in at -15db. In terms of 'best practice' should I lower the output on the SRC so it lines up with f8n? (Or would this lead me to push up the gain on the recorder and increase the noise floor in the system?) Kind regards Craig.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Hi Craig, worth a test trying both ways to see which produces the best results. Seems to make sense to reduce the output on the SRC.

[@enricofrancese6333]

Hi Curtis, brilliant job as always. 2 questions: 1. Do I always need to record a stereo mix on all productions? Normally I would record a stereo mix only if required from the production itself, so that I don't have more useless files in my Polywaves. I do prefer to have a Polywave that has only the single tracks that I can mix afterwards in my DAW. Is this "correct" in your experience? 2. What kind of level metering do you suggest/prefer to use (peak vs Peak/VU) ?Thanks

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Enrico, yes, definitely do what makes sense for the production. If you're doing the post work, you get to choose whether you want a stereo mix or not. Ideally, I prefer a combined peak/VU meter so I can keep track of the peaks and get a good sense for loudness as well.

[@enricofrancese6333]

@@curtisjudd Thanks a lot for your support

[@Chasjazzez]

Hi Curtis, Here I’m back again... I have the Zoom F8n and a Sennheiser MKH416 shotgun mic. I’ve read the manual, but could not find it... maybe read over it... but how do you setup the Zoom that it records the mono mic on two channels... I found only the options “Dual Channel Rec” and “ Stereo link mode”. Could you help me out with it? Thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Chasjazzez, Congratulation on your new recorder and microphone! Yes, you need to use Dual Channel Rec. This will enable the secondary channel and then you set the trim for the second channel lower than the first. We cover it in detail in our Zoom F8 course over at school.learnlightandsound.com if you are interested. Best wishes!

[@Chasjazzez]

Curtis Judd Thanks I will take a look at your website

[@guillemg7026]

Hi, how do you see the f8 zoom to record guitars and mix with it in a homestudio? Thanks

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

I see it as a much stronger field recorder for film, video, and podcast production. You can use it as an Audio Interface with a DAW, but there are a lot of other options out there I'd choose if that is the primary purpose.

[@guillemg7026]

Thank you very much Curtis

[@ottoknaus2194]

Hello Curtis, If you were commissioned to record as faithfully as possible bird calls in a foreign country and your choice of recorder / mixers was out of F8N and Premix 3/6/10, what would you choose? The microphones will more than likely be double MS system from Schoeps.

[@curtisjudd]

I would choose the one that ergonomically fits the job. If you'll be running through a forest, the F8 seems to work a little better from a bag (mainly because of the awkward placement of the headphone/menu encoder on the side of the MixPre).

[@ottoknaus2194]

Thank you.

[@dickydahl]

Hi Curtis, this is perhaps a newbie question, but...you say that you should try and use the fader to control levels during recording. But if I'm not recording a mix track and just the iso's is that still the case? Thanks!

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Dicky, good question. No, when you're just recording isos without a mix, no need to adjust the faders. Happy recording!

[@LeoMahoney70]

Curtis, off subject... Can I put a Schoeps CMC641 in a full size RODE blimp2 or does the blimp need to be smaller? Is the 641 useable on windless outdoor shot? Thanks- Leo

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Hi Leo, you can from a purely sound quality standpoint but the problem it creates is that you cannot get the mic in as close to the talent as you might like.

[@POLARICED]

This my sound like a dumb question but once you have set up your gain to hit -18dBFS (which is what's going to be recorded to the mono track right?), the fader only controls what's going to be recorded to the stereo track of the mix? So I could mess up the stereo track but not the mono?

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Hi Roberto, not a dumb question at all. You are correct - if in Advanced mode - the fader only controls how much of that channel is sent to the stereo mix so it will NOT mess up the isolation channel recording.

[@POLARICED]

@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions Thanks Curtis, I feel I have a better understanding of what gain staging is now, but I'm going to keep studying about it till I feel comfortable enough to approach the next job

[@curtisjudd]

@@POLARICED Practice is a great idea. I fully support it! 👍

[@marctronixx]

CJ, do you normally just free run your TC on your decks? Just curious bro. :)

[@curtisjudd]

Yes.

[@RayValdezPhotography]

I kow this is an old video but Chris Judd, do you need a cloudlifter for a shure sm7b if you have an f8?

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Ray, no, the F8 can supply 75dB of clean gain. For the SM7B, you'll generally not need more than about 65dB at the most or you'd be clipping. So no need for a Cloudlifter from my perspective.

[@RayValdezPhotography]

@@curtisjudd thank you

[@guillemg7026]

Can you reproduce a project from daw to 24 / 48kz? I'm between this, audient id44 and spl crimson 3.. Thank you very much

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Yes, but something like the Audient probably makes more sense if you're looking for a dedicated audio interface.

[@peruperu-jj8zs]

What’s the difference between the meter on these and sound devices?? These end at 0db but on sound devices end at like +20

[@curtisjudd]

Meters which top out at 0dB are typically dB Full Scale meters which represent the digital scale. Meters which top out at +20 or +24 dBu are typically VU meters which represent voltage and are used most often on analogue gear. However, you can change the F8/F8n to VU meters if you choose.

[@peruperu-jj8zs]

Curtis Judd thank you. Which type or metering do audio editing softwares use?

[@gabrielspalletta]

first i have to setup the gain, and then when im recording i have to monitoring the fader? the gain give me the background noise balance ?? and the fader for level voices and shouts? (sorry my english)

[@curtisjudd]

Yes, I think you've got it!

[@jefftan3173]

im new to the audio recording. wanna ask. the recording in the f8n. every single track records in trim audio level is it correct? mean if i adjust the fade it does not record in every track but only in L/R?

[@curtisjudd]

The fader only affects the mix, it does not affect the isolated tracks.

[@Sticks_n_Licks]

First of all, your video's are very helpful! I have a question related to this subject. I have this strange thing going on with my Zoom F8 sometimes. I like to work in Mixer mode with the track knobs. When i make changes for Fader and Trim settings and i reboot the Zoom All setting i made are correponding with the track knobs. So Fader and Trim settings are the same. I'm just a beginner with the device but this is very confusing. Is this normal? I have the latest firmware and i just did a factory reset, but didn't help.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Sticks 'n Licks, I believe that this is normal. You might like to try the Fader Track Knob option. This seems to retain the settings from session to session for me.

[@Sticks_n_Licks]

Hi Curtis, I believe this problem started with Firmware version 5.0. In this version Zoom introduced the Fader track knob option. Before this version the Fader settings were saved also in the Mixer mode. For my use the Fader track knob option isn't very handy. I found a workaround to make a back-up for the F8 settings and store it so every time i restart the device i load these settings again. I hope Zoom will Fix this problem soon. Thank you!

[@curtisjudd]

@@Sticks_n_Licks Ok, good to know, thanks for sharing that. I assume you have already let Zoom know about the issue via their support.

[@Sticks_n_Licks]

Hi Curtis, i noticed a bug in Level Meter View order before and had contact with Zoom Japan. I got a little strange answer but they fixed it ;) So, i was hoping that you had the right contact @ Zoom. Again, i'm just a beginner with this equipment.

[@curtisjudd]

@@Sticks_n_Licks Hi Sticks 'n Licks, I just re-read your original question before sending it to my contact at Zoom. Do I understand correctly that you always set the fader and trim levels to the exact same (knob is at the same place) for each channel?

[@michaelsvlog]

I ran some more tests I think the LED from Godox is just simply too loud I even put it literally like 12ft away and the mic still picks it up. So I don't think it is a placement of mic issue I even turned gain down to absolute lowest with me ultra close to mic less than 1ft and the sound still reaches mic. Do you think the Came-tv 100w fanless is bright enough for key light or is the Aputure 120d a better option? I know aputure has a 120d mark ii coming out that is suppose to be 30% brighter so not sure if that outpowers the Came-TV 100w. I prefer portability and I know the aputure is small but I need something that has some brightness for night shooting indoors so I can fill room with soft light if ever desired but if fan noise becomes issue then aputure 120d won't work. Since you have the 120d would you say it is quieter than a laptop fan that is not doing extensive tasks? Our fridge is like 12ft away but mic doesn't really pick it up much barely audible.

[@curtisjudd]

Hi Michael, I think the best way to assess how loud the 120D is is to listen to any of my talking head videos that have been published on my main channel over the last year. The 120T (and the 120T which is identical in terms of fan noise) has the LightDome softbox on it and the fan on the 120T is approximately 6 to 8 feet away from my face. Here's an example: kzbin.info/www/bejne/eZbPaaSCi7h3bbM I haven't used the CameTV 100W so I'm not sure how its output compares to the 120d/t. But I would think that it would be suitable as a key light.

[@michaelsvlog]

Personally I can't hear any noise. Is this raw audio no noise removal? I used an app on my ipad for decible test and it register room noise as high as like 50db so this thing is quieter than my room noise if it is rated at 18db. Correction is more like 25 to 29db after calibrating app. Hard to get a proper reading as one app reads 43db.

[@curtisjudd]

No noise removal/reduction processing applied.

[@michaelsvlog]

From what I could tell the 120d is much smaller than 100w came-tv I just need an equal measurement to find out, which one is brighter. Even if I don't use the full brightness I just want the option for flexibility. Going to wait on the Mark ii 120d and see how much output gain it gets.

[@BangsNaughtyBits]

Question from a home taught hobbyist: when you specify a level, say -18 dB as a target for levels, is this a peak level or RMS level. I presume it is a peak value as the goal is to avoid clip events. I just want to check. As a side note, would you consider a video on RMS vs Peak metering and when one value should be used over another? And also dBFS vs dBV for people mixing digital and analog gear? In a more controlled environment, how far would you put your levels? Is -12 dBFS really the maximum you would want to push a recording and still have headroom for the occasional surprise? !

[@RedBearAK]

[ Edit: In the text below think I confused myself into thinking "average peak level" was the same as "average recording level" or RMS loudness. Curtis is right in the comment below, the -18dBFS is referring to the main _peak_ level you see registering on the meter. But a lot of sound sources will have average peaks around -18dBFS while sometimes having a brief transient peak up above at -15dBFS or -12dBFS. That's what I was thinking about. Sometimes that's OK, sometimes it isn't. Depends on the sound source. ] There are a number of videos on YT on setting recording levels when using analog gear (or audio plugins that were designed to mimic analog components). The general consensus is that recording levels should be around -18dBFS because that's the signal level the analog equipment was designed to expect and work with best. The level Curtis is talking about is not RMS specifically but just the average of where you see the meter bouncing around on the screen. If your sound source is spending a lot of time peaking above -12dBFS, you might even need to reduce the average recording level a bit below -18dBFS or you could wind up with distortion and clipping. It really depends on your sound source and the ability of your equipment to manage peaks. If you have a constant-volume sound source that never peaks you could record it at -1dBFS with no real issue. If you want to record a gunshot from a meter away, you will need to set your level much lower to manage the peak. Everything is relative in audio. You have to determine for yourself whether paying more attention to the average volume or the peak volume is more important for your specific audio recording situation. There's no "right" answer, unfortunately. You won't like this answer either but generally you can't easily compare dB, dBFS, dBV, dBu, or any other unit with "dB" in it. They all are relative measurements of completely different things that can't be directly converted to another "dB" unit. They either have very vague or completely nonexistent and meaningless relationships with one another. I recommend reading the Wikipedia articles on all the different units and what they actually measure. Decibels ultimately are just a way of easily expressing a logarithmic scale where things quickly get exponentially larger or smaller, by using seemingly linear numbers.

[@LearnLightAndSoundSessions]

Yes, talking about peak in this context. RMS metering is a way to gauge loudness instead of peak levels and is often used in broadcast or other situations where you have a processing audio chain with compression to handle transients. The context for my ideas shared in this video are from the point of view of a sound for film mixer where post is expected. I should have mentioned that. 😀 Yes, good idea on the metering. I'll add that to the list. (usually the pro level field mixers/recorders for film show dBu). If I'm going to do post for a project, which I generally am, I would definitely not push past -12 because retakes are expensive and post will take care of loudness normalization.