SoundCloud Rap is Not Goth

SoundCloud “goth rap” is not a thing. I initially wanted this to be an on-camera type of video, but there are issues with my camera currently. I'm not sure when I'll be able to next make one of those, but yeah. Here's this.
Special thanks to Kai Decadence for designing the avatar used in this video.
What is Goth Music?: • What is Goth Music? - ...

[@oddsockzx7124]

A guy at school said to me. "You like that dark goth stuff right? " and continued to go on about xxxtentacion. I had to try to explain to him that infact it was not goth at all and its something completely different.I showed him she passed away and a couple other bands.He was shocked and said it was depressing and evil.I was really annoyed by this.

[@9r0t0typ3]

This really seems like "goths" acting high class and saying that they arent goth but not defining how they are goth.

[@spell.bound.v]

Last Wave Records What makes someone goth is listening to goth music, well known bands include Sisters of Mercy, Alien Sex Fiend, The Cure, Specimen etc. Insisting that Soundcloud rap is goth doesn’t make sense, it isn’t part of that genre of music. People simply want to label themselves because it’s suddenly a trend, it’s definitely not anyone being “high class” for calling them out or correcting them.

[@evacody1249]

@RecluseAndHisGuitar why do people who are not goths and Metalheads not get that part? Also why do some goths and Metalheads not get that?

[@evacody1249]

@@spell.bound.v what you said. Metalheads are in the same boat. People want to either call themselves Goths or metalheads yet they don't listen to the music or understand the subcultures.

[@frankvasquez2925]

I love she passed away

[@angelabenedict]

This makes me INSANE. I was just introduced to 'Goth Trap'. Speechless.

[@juliao.8479]

I love your channel, will you post again soon? 🖤

[@barbarradevlin9111]

1. Love your channel 2. IKR?! Why is this even a topic of discussion?! But I think @Accumortis did a great job of explaining everything. If people ask me about this SoundCloud rap crap, I’ll just direct them to this video. He’s right, arguing about doesn’t solve anything, but explaining does

[@barbarradevlin9111]

You can lead someone to water, but you can’t make them drink unfortunately

[@whatwedointheshadows3349]

do you bait it with clove smokes and absinthe?

[@dakota825]

Goth Boy Clique

[@mothmanifest]

I got banned from a goth group bcs I expressed confusion about someone’s choice to wear goth band shirts without not even listening to those bands, and even admitting they don’t even like those bands, but only wear the shirts for the aesthetics, and to rep goth lyfe while only listening to soundcloud rap, and also threw Ariana Grande and Katy Perry in there. I just thought that was very strange because I have been goth since the 80s and would feel ridiculous repping a band I don’t even like just cause the shirt is visually on point. This is what I really don’t get about this instagram generation, it’s only about looks and although looks are our first cue of information, the cover is not the book!

[@Accumortis]

It's so embarrassing when people wear band's shirts without even knowing what they are or without being a fan of their stuff.

[@razvandobos9759]

@@Accumortis Agreed!

[@edwardsdistress5599]

@@KaiDecadence I was just thinking the same thing. It might be advertisement, but a lot of the time, they might hard reject they're even a band. Some people are too stubborn.

[@stanblah3756]

They have the right to wear the shirt no matter what you think. You think in such a childish manner.

[@spell.bound.v]

Tristan Sweatshirt In what way was them expressing confusion about a persons choice of shirt childish? It IS confusing that the group member wore shirts of bands they don’t like.

[@elfenblut7322]

I can't believe this needs to be adressed... And I'm starting to get sick of it. There are tons of ressources to learn more about Goth and yet, people still do this. Goth music is so beautiful, but for some reason, people don't give a shit about it and just want to use the term "Goth" to be edgy. I was trendy when I was a teenager (In the early 2000's), then people stopped for a while and now this is becoming a thing again... People love to call Goths (And Metalheads) weirdos but from time they also love to call themselves Goth just to look cool. But in the end, no one truely gives a shit avec the subculture. I hear some people complaining about elitism but, honestly, in almost 20 years of being part of the subculture, never have I ever met an elitist... People were always very kind and excited to help me learn more about the subculture. Even at the beginning when I barely knew anything about it. But apparently, correcting people's misconceptions about the subculture is elitism now.

[@nikkili8944]

Amen to that! 🙏 It's sooo annoying! I'm sick and tired of this too... A lot of people are just lazy, ignorant and stubborn. It's a real shame... You can look up everything on the internet these days within a couple of minutes, yet people are too lazy to educate themselves and learn something new. I think it's a combination of laziness, convenience and lack of curiosity.

[@evacody1249]

That's just where the subcultures of Goth and Metalheads are right now. Instead of listening to the music they bash on the music and people. Then they go and start Goth Trap and Trap Metal and say it's the new thing for both cultures and everything else is dead. That or we don't like new things.

[@gibblesddlucario8211]

They're pretty much the reason why the culture slowly dies

[@nxvamore4506]

People just want to latch on to the term "Goth" so they can gain some kind of "edgy clout" and not being straight up and calling the genre what it actually is, a deformed version of "trap" music. If anything all of these newer artists should look at someone like Kid Cudi, who paved the way for more "somber" lyrics and instrumentals and learn from him. He NEVER called his music fucking Goth or Emo he just called it Hip Hop/Rap. I am a huge fan of Kid Cudi, my favorite rapper of all time, but I used to hate when they called his music "Emo Rap". People are dumb and as much as normo people hate to admit us Goths have a permanent stamp on American culture like everyone else. Just give Goths they're due credit and move on, stop trying to be like us when youre not, posers.

[@underedenxx]

Industrial metal/alternative rock hijacked the term Goth in the 90's As I'm sure everyone can tell we were pretty successful 😂 And let's be honest the only reason anyone thinks Goth is "edgy" is because of us... all the 80's hardcore original cry themselves to sleep thinking about being strung up to the ceiling in a sex club with nothing but bat wings on high AF 😂 I watch them complain about the kids getting walked around on a dog leash after columbine giving them a bad rap all the Goth scene is now is complain complain complain thanks to social media and quite honestly your complete lack of edge sometimes makes me wonder why your wearing the outfits you are

[@lostangel17]

Goth was hijacked by many to name a few, metal, industrial music and emo.

[@lucasstratton5716]

People like that should leave Goth alone and mind their own damn business.

[@ayla8738]

i remember when "goth" was used as a derogatory word and you were definitely depressed, if you were one. how the tables have turned.

[@sickly-mika6880]

Ayla I thought they called u an emo if u were depressed or sad and a fucking nutcase or creep if u were goth?

[@Evilspookydollar]

I get labeled goth by my rap music and my metal music I don’t like it when people call me that it hurts

[@TheFreekje]

as someone who listens to alt/screamo/emo rap (lil peep, ghostemane, killstation etc) and actual goth music i cant agree more with this its so frustrating that people call themselves goth when they listen to that rap genre and esp when they dont even know actual goth bands or respect them

[@gloomykusinagivlog9798]

butt cheek Exactly.

[@frankvasquez2925]

Iv been in too goth for over 20 years ,, but i do like rap since i was born in to it since it is some thing my dad like when rap started ..but Im from the ghetto

[@karenknox9362]

Goth and Rap are worlds apart

[@razvandobos9759]

Rap and Goth are two completely different things.

[@blackmoonfirethespiritualw4359]

Some people don't understand that goth and emo are not the same. Goth and emo are two different things. There's goth music , emo music, there's all kinds of different music. I listened to goth music all the time.

[@saturnian451]

But Cloudrap is also not Emo... Emo is from Post Hardcore music scene... it's not simular to Cloudrap music(search for bands like Rites of Spring, Sunny Day Real Estate(Mid Emo), Moss Icon, Pg99(Screamo))

[@skullsouljah2836]

@@saturnian451 that's emotional hardcore, but "emo" usually means bands like Brand New, My chemical romance or taking back sunday. Not rites of spring or orchid lmap

[@honestalex5790]

@@skullsouljah2836 nah thats mall emo. Those are more music of the scene subculture. Emo is most definitely emotive hxc punk. Midwest emo is like emotive indie since its more indie sounding. Mall emo, midwest emo and welp real emo are all very different but with very similar distinct sound, overall it being emotive. The way the dude above explained is spot on lol. And this is not to be gatekeepy on the emo subculture, I mean my playlists very much includes bands like Hawthorne heights, braid, indian summer, etc. All emotive but all different genres. Shit just yesterday I was jamming to mcr at work, but I still don't call them emo

[@MysteriousAsteria]

@@skullsouljah2836 Emo originally came from "Emotional Hardcore", via the shortening of "Emocore" (as it was called in the 90s, and Emotional Hardcore in the 80s). My Chemical Romance are as Emo as Evanescence are Goth - that means, they aren't, maybe with the exception of their very first album, but the stuff they are most well known for was edgy pop rock. Emo was a well established underground culture in the 80s and 90s, what happened to it in the 00s was pretty much equal to how the term "Goth" became misused. It just became very hip to call your angsty popular pop rock band "Emo", regardless of their sound orif they had anything to do with either Emocore or the Midwest Emo scene, and sadly that stuck.

[@serenedisorder4786]

You need to capitalize the words Goth and Emo. Respect.

[@AnthonyNekro]

Rap music is in the Hip Hop genre. Goth Music is in the Rock and Electronic genre. This is a mess that really get under people's skins . Thanks for shedding light on it this issue. I don't know how many times people recommended me those soundcloud rappers.

[@MrDaiv1996]

so you absolutely cannot put flute into death metal because folk is not subgenre of heavy celtic rock ? gtfo with your science, we make music we do not care

[@AnthonyNekro]

@@MrDaiv1996 not what I said but okay

[@Anonymous-wb3nz]

@@MrDaiv1996 Rap NEVER WAS, and NEVER will be accepted by REAL, actual Goths. It's TRASH.

[@jokosama5352]

Girls in my class listening to edgy rap and wearing a black shirt with a black skirt: "i am a goth now" Me in the back: " am i a fucking joke to you?"

[@razvandobos9759]

Rock tees have become a silly trend. The majority of kids my age wearing band t-shirts don't even listen to these bands.

[@bananacakeeee]

same. im scared that people will think im only wearing my joy division or bauhaus tshirt for the aesthetic💀

[@serenedisorder4786]

Then they are losers.

[@aytakk]

I call it all sadboi rap though it isn't meant to be a compliment

[@Accumortis]

Sounds about right, lol.

[@abigailsharples8985]

Soundclound raps NOT goth

[@VeryFunMovieClips]

SpaceGhostPurrp

[@frankvasquez2925]

not but it should be

[@skullsouljah2836]

@@VeryFunMovieClips spaceghostpurrp was a metalhead not goth

[@HayleeHorton]

Lol I made a tshirt that says that a month ago, people need to know.

[@Accumortis]

Haylee Horton Amazing, lol.

[@pennywisethedancingclown2702]

I don’t think goth and rap will ever properly mix together. Rap culture and goth culture are so defined and so different. If anything it would be more of a spooky branch of rap. It’s not really like the goth and metal relationship either, like how a lot of goths like metal and visa versa. Many of my friends who are into rap culture don’t particularly like goth music, and my alternative friends (and myself) don’t particularly like rap. Even if it did become a thing it would probably end up being more like cybergoth, becoming more of its own separate culture.

[@edwardsdistress5599]

Definitely. Agree with the whole separate subculture like Cybergoth. It would probably end up just being mostly rap in black, though, like what it is now. Cyber doesn't have much "goth" in it after being mixed with rave and industrial subculture anyway.

[@whatwedointheshadows3349]

witch house has elements of both and you can blend those genres.

[@gothmom9812]

That sounds a bit sad. I think it's possible. Also,rap isn't just one culture. It's a style of making music. It is not just one way or the other. I hate how people lump rap all together the way they do. It's like comparing joji to toriena. Completely different styles. Rap is similar to rock in terms of how many styles the genre has within. If someone is goth,like actually goth and wishes to make goth music but is good at rap music can they not contribute to the goth music scene? Goth music is still changing. I don't think any artist should be pushed away from adding to the goth genre. I don't think goth rap should just be put down as impossible.

[@pennywisethedancingclown2702]

Goth Mom I didn’t say it was impossible. I’m just saying if goth and rap did mix, it would almost become its own scene. I think it would be similar to the cyber goth community in a sense. Still a branch of goth, but so different that it breaks off into its own scene. Does that make sense? This is just my prediction.

[@whatwedointheshadows3349]

@@pennywisethedancingclown2702 dude seriously check out some witch house. it's not my favorite genre by any means (except for that one white rings song), but it clearly takes aesthetic cues from both hip hop and goth/industrial.

[@Fernandanatac]

I’m happy that you explained the difference between goth and gothic. In my language (Portuguese) there’s no difference between them. Both translate to “gótico”. So I’ve always used the terms interchangeably. but when I saw people online saying that they were different things I got so confused. To me everything is “gótico” (música gótica, pessoa gótica, arquitetura gótica, etc). I’m really happy to know this difference in the English language now! Thanks

[@saturnian451]

CloudRap is also not Emo... Emo come from post-hardcore scene in 80s. There is no simularity to Emotive Hardcore(also Emo doesn't mean Emotional)

[@Accumortis]

You are correct.

[@juliao.8479]

Bela lugosi is shook 😭 goth rap, if I hear this I already get goosebumps lol

[@abigailsharples8985]

I like soundcloud rap, I like goth music, They DO NOT sound the same

[@sdawg310]

Ghostemane doesnt make goth music but he has said before that he's a fan of Bauhaus, Christian Death, and Siouxsie and the Banshees.

[@ms.anthropia]

These people are so headstrong, I've virtually gave up trying to discuss and defend what goth truly is.

[@Exalted_in_Venus]

This is such a succinct essay. Thank you for posting. I like this crossover between rap and darkly inclined themes, however I do not listen to the music as I do not connect to it on a soul level. I think it's interesting that so many genres and inspirations can meet up and there really is endless possibilities on what music can be. Oh. And thank you for reminding me that I'm still goth, although others will try to tell me I'm not goth because I sometimes dress like a hippie and listen to folk, classic rock and "new age" music. I wish more people would realise its just as okay to be one thing as it is to be many things.

[@spiralpython1989]

Lovely chat. As an elder goth, I find it hard to keep up with the ‘latest trends’ especially when these trends are outside my gothrock, darkwave, new wave and Deutsche Welle tastes, so thanks for giving me a nice clear summation of the latest cultural (mis)appropriation. And for filling in, once again the diffs between goth and gothic, and the not goth of pastel goth, mall goth, and emo....

[@serenedisorder4786]

Capitalize the word Goth......

[@yaoguaife1741]

I'm so happy Angela pointed the way to your video! I'm glad to know that I'm GOTHIC, but not goth (while I greatly enjoy goth music, it's not my main music choice, but then again nothing really is lol). Now I won't feel flustered watching a lot of my favorite goth-tubers and being told that I'm not goth since I don't listen to solely goth music. It also allows me to seek out the correct spaces in which I can connect with other gothic people without stepping on the toes of goths. Again, many thanks!!!

[@meka4063]

Ah wah dis mi ah hear? Accumortis listens to Dancehall and Reggae? Aye! You got some good ears. Anyways, I listen to my fair share of some of these underground (some becoming mainstream) rappers. And what I have learned is that the term 'Soundcloud rapper/rap' is also a derogatory term. Most of them don't even want the label of being a rapper. Soundcloud rap isn't a sub genre w/n rap. Soundcloud is just another platform for artists to share their music, there was just a mass number of new rappers coming from there so people in the rap scene felt the need to label them as such. I personally never came across someone face to face calling themselves goth for liking any of these rappers lol. These artists enjoy some alternative music themselves but the fans don't do their research on who their favourite artists are inspired by. They just want to dress the part b/c its 'edgy' and it's 'In'. For example, a rapper named Zillakami is well immersed into the punk subculture and blends it into his fashion. His fans constantly beg him where he gets his clothing (specifically his crust pants), not knowing it's a project that you build on your own by sewing on patches that expresses your musical interests or whatever else....soooo instead of paying a limb or two just make your own! Anything that's dark always gets the goth label from the mainstream, it is mad annoying but you are helping out the confused with this video lol.

[@MasterCorundum]

No, this article is very accurate and not confusing anybody. People ARE trying to falsely associate goth with rap/hip-hop, and have been calling these talentless fools "goth rappers", extended to "goth soundcloud rappers" as the hub of the phenomenon. The guy who made this article didn't make that up. Rap isn't Punk, either, but that's a talk for another page.

[@Kruegerfan101emoandgothallowed]

I'm glad you talked about this it's ok if you like SoundCloud rap (I don't) but don't complain if you get judgement

[@rebeccaashdot1379]

I was waiting for your take on this😂😂💖

[@arakna8941]

Billie Eyelash, Lill Peep and Ghostemane fans: "oh nooooooo😭"

[@retronerds6884]

Ghostmane is more nu metal now

[@samzatoichi8330]

Kudos, another fine music education piece. I appreciated the presentation of Goth vs Emo and the irrefutable evidence you present why the micro genre of sound cloud or mumble rap can never be Goth. I like the format of this video since it tackled just one question or controversy. Keep up the great work, Cheers and Happy New year

[@MandyCandy13]

i am a metalhead and i still get offended by this kind of misinformation

[@VeryFunMovieClips]

SpaceGhostPurrp bought back the dark wave of new era hip hop, he was influenced by 3 6 Mafia, who had hardcore dark lyrics and beats. All I gotta say, it's SpaceGhostPurrp who started the dark SoundCloud rap

[@wolfievagabond]

I always enjoy your vids on any subject you choose to talk about. You are always very informative and detailed yet very clear and understandable at the same time.

[@peterkarargiris4110]

I loved your arm/flipper graphic ! Well researched, written and presented Accumortis. In my opinion rap and goth are fundamentally different both philosophically and aesthetically, and that's all I'm saying.

[@Accumortis]

Peter Karargiris I’m always finding ways to slip in biology references and/or analogies.

[@tofushark320]

Honestly It wouldn’t be so bad if they just called themselves emo instead of goth

[@monoho8204]

As someone who usually dresses up as an eboy and listens to emo hiphop/rap, it annoys me when others call themselves goth simply because they wear dark themed outfits. They should just call themselves an eboy/egirl or a gen-z emo. I usually wear dark themed outfits but I don't have much of a metal background, and that's why I don't call myself a goth. I'd prolly call myself an eboy (even tho i don't do tiktok) or a gen-z emo.

[@lfcforever1482]

it’s all because lil peep would always call himself a goth boy, and his group were called gothboyclique, that we now have all these annoying e kids claiming to be goth. no disrespect to lil peep, but i doubt he even knew who robert smith or siouxsie sioux are. from what i’ve seen, he didn’t listen to goth music, he didn’t make goth music, and not that style necessarily matters as goth is a music based genre, but even his style wasn’t at all goth. there was nothing goth about him. he claimed to have grown up listening to emo rock, pop punk, metal & trap music - none of which are goth whatsoever. i honestly think he genuinely didn’t know what it meant to be goth and just thought it was a term for people who have a “dark and edgy aesthetic” and so he thought he could call himself goth. but there’s nothing goth about him or any of gothboyclique. there’s some pop punk and emo influence in the music admittedly, but nothing goth whatsoever. ultimately, it’s lil peep we have to thank for all the e kids thinking their goth

[@pennyhyatt5299]

I am not Goth myself, but I do have an appreciation for the subculture. I find it beautiful, and mesmerizing. Truth is, until recently, very recently I have not heard of sound cloud rap. However, listening to the samples alone, not my cup of tea. I love how well you explained things. Thank you for that, and am truly sorry such a beautiful culture is once more being dragged through the mud so to speak.

[@Alice-gd4sx]

When you played emo and goth next to each other it was like watching the former getting eaten alive in every way possible

[@zaknafein_aconite]

Superbly put. Are you still on gothic amino? This video would be highly eulogized, over on that app. The opinionated novices need to know...

[@Accumortis]

I don't use it. People are free to share the video wherever, though.

[@serenedisorder4786]

Gothic is spelled with a capital G.

[@lostangel17]

Gothic Amino is dead now. Not active at all and its full of darkly inclined Alt kids trying to get validation and attention.

[@christie_exist]

Good that someone finally takes this up!

[@lozentucker1071]

I honestly don't care what music you listen to but don't go around saying music like this is goth you can tell the difference if you listen to actual goth music

[@m155t0x1cv1ru5]

Finally someone said it, thank you for this!!! ❤❤

[@annelawless6049]

thank u, gods, for sending us this wise man

[@dumpstercub2902]

Tbh i have a problem with this stuff being called "emo rap" as well. It has nothing to do with emotional hardcore. Sure it's emotional, but so is most other music. I have nothing against the genre but I think it needs it's own name, a name that better explains what it is.

[@Accumortis]

I agree that it shouldn't be called emo rap unless it truly is sampling emo bands or has an accompanying band playing emo hardcore/midwest emo, etc. This style of music isn't related to goth or emo.

[@razvandobos9759]

Ever heard of Horrorcore?

[@razvandobos9759]

I once planned a Goth/Punk/Metal band called the Brothers of Muhommed.

[@razvandobos9759]

Real Emo bands are Sunny Day Real Estate, Rites of Spring, Embrace, American Football, Indian Summer, Jets to Brazil, Used, Dashboard Confessional, Weezer, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, etc.

[@razvandobos9759]

@Hana Yancey I'm aware of that.

[@erikapettersson1689]

I’ve had people ask me if I like mumble rap 🙄 and my old baby bat self thought I was a poser for liking Manson😂😂

[@michellemoreneaux]

i loved this and your channel which i recently discovered, thank you :')

[@DiamanteDea]

I love goth music (actual goth music)

[@kloewe6069]

The blatant misogyny and machismo of the lyrics should be enough for most people to realize it is not goth rock and does not fit into the scene...

[@Th3Rej3cTStar]

I like this music but would never call it “goth rap” cause thats just not a thing. You can however be goth and be into it I feel. Just call it what it is lol

[@razvandobos9759]

Bit off topic, but do you like 1950's rock n roll and Doo Wop and 1960's garage rock and psychedelic rock?

[@Mina-fl6us]

I mean, I'm a goth girl myself and those are some of my favorite genres aside from goth! I'm also a little bit psychobilly so it fits well 🖤

[@chrishenniker5944]

I love a lot of the old garage. I love The Standells, The Monks, Thirteenth Floor Elevators, Penny Saints, Count Five, Love, The Uncalled For, The Cramps, Billy Childish, Jus Luv, Holly Golightly, The Seeds, MC5, The Stooges.

[@plushieguttz8523]

I completely understand how annoying it is to have sum eboys or egirls start claiming goth for only listening 2 artists lyke peep etc as a fan of goth music n the goth subculture. But im also a fan of other genres of music including extreme metal, electronica, n even hiphop. N i will tell yu now, soundcloud rap, mumble rap, whatevr, was never n is not a subgenre. Jus bcuz rap comes from soundcloud does not define it as a fake genre. Undergroud rap or independent rap wouldnt b considered a genre as well. Its a scene n a subculture, not a definition for a sound. The rappers n artists yu have listed in the scene have never claimed that their music is goth, its the fans that do out of confusion n misunderstanding. The artist themselves, however, can b goth or listen to goth music, without having to make goth or goth influenced music. Goth rap was never a thing, n as a fan of the underground hiphop scene, i wont ever believe it to b a thing. The ppl who claim it to b a thing r fans of the artist who r new to the underground, not the artists who have been in the underground themselves. N that is the issue. These fans jus need educated on what is what. But who am i to b saying anything tho, bauhaus is a popular band within the goth subculture n is seen as goth music even tho they reject the goth label n do not consider their music goth. Its always been up to the subculture to determine what kind of music is goth, n that has always included post punk, deathrock, darkwave, coldwave, dream pop, gothic rock, and ethereal wave. But back when the goth subculture was birthed, it was formed n brought together by the music but nobody actually saw it as 1 singular genre. It was a movement. Born from the love of dark music n similar interests. It was born out of noncomformity. Goth is punk. Thats just my take on it, but everybody has a right to their own beliefs on what goth is. I think as long as there is a respect for the cultures history n the music n the love of the music, yu can b goth. These kids just need guidance.

[@VbombzDaBomberman]

Prayers is the only band I know of who actually do Goth Rap. They even kinda move between the lines of Dark Wave with Hip Hop influence and Hip Hop with Goth influence. You should look into them. I can't say I am a huge fan of most of their songs, but its definitely an actual example of Goth Rap.

[@Accumortis]

I know them and have listened to a lot of their songs. It just sounds like minimalwave/synthpop to me, but maybe I’m missing the tracks that have hip-hop and rap influences? I can see it in their fashion/video aesthetic, but I haven’t heard it in the music yet.

[@VbombzDaBomberman]

@@Accumortis Really what I am talking about is the fact that a lot of their songs have Leafar just Rap-Singing over Gothish beats. Some of the instrumentals are clearly just Synthpop, but others are def Minimal Synth and maybe even Dark Wave. If someone like Drake is rapping, then Leafar is too. Although I must admit Leafar is a worse singer. Whatever Leafar is doing on something like "Edge of the Blade" is not singing. Also thanks for replying :) I just found this channel from the Billie Eilish video.

[@Accumortis]

Vbombz I totally get what you mean, and it makes sense. I can definitely agree that Prayers is probably the closest thing we’ve gotten to hip-hop/goth music/culture crossing over, but I still want to see something in the future that’s a better example of a musical hybrid! Thanks for watching.

[@alynn6967]

It makes me laugh because I’ve been saying this for years, I’ve been telling people how it’s emo rap, in all reality the people who wanna be goth so badly were the same people making fun of actual goths or just most of the Alt community for being different and not being like everyone else. Wish I saw this when it came out I try and explain this to a lot of people that follow me on Instagram because they’ll hit me up with “omg Billie eyelash is so goth ghostmane is goth” nah they aren’t. Uzi could never be goth it’s “emo”rap all day like x or peep it’s really funny to me because it will never be goth, it could be rock inspired but it’s still all confusing

[@Dusky-Bunn1e]

Thank you, i’m goth(baby bat still) and i honestly am more into Trad Goth music. (Sisters of Mercy, Siousxie and the Banshees, Bauhaus...etc) Like i do listen to some modern music but it’s mainly 80’s and 90’s music. And the only rap i like is Eminem from his earlier years and 2 of Big notorious’ songs. Rap is not my favorite and when people label themselves as “goth” but wear soft things and don’t even know how goth originated....idk why but it bothers me. Alot.

[@cindigonzalez7350]

Me too and I'm also a baby bat😊🖤👍..but I don't agree that u have to dress hardcore goth to be goth..you can do ur own thing with the goth fashion that exist and even add ur own influence to it. The music is the most important part anyway.

[@serenedisorder4786]

The word Goth needs to be spelled with a capital G......

[@Dusky-Bunn1e]

@@serenedisorder4786 Okay???? I made this comment a year ago, noone really cares if the g is upper or lower cased.

[@MidnightOwlOfficial]

God I had those big legged Tripp pants. Awful! Hahhaha. I never considered that look goth. It’s was mostly rap core people or people who listened to Korn. I guess people would say it’s metal but I don’t agree. I haven’t heard of the rap goth stuff you are talking about. I must be outta the loop.

[@serenedisorder4786]

Goth is supposed to be spelled with a capital G. Same with Metal. Capital M.....

[@chrishenniker5944]

Excellent points being made here, especially when alternative culture is being co-opted either by marketing men, multinational corporations, the state and people who have no understanding or knowledge of a subculture. I bet these are people who don’t know the difference between Specimen, Alien Sex Fiend and Burzum.

[@cdavid0715]

Im new to the whole scene (im interested mainly in the music) but i can say that things like this happens in other communities. Happened with nu metal and metalcore, and now its happening in black metal with the blackgaze movement

[@nicholasbrosseau6035]

DUDE!! THANKS SO MUCH FOR THE WORK ON THIS CHANNEL!!!! I'm a late in life goth. I've always loved Minstry, Type O Negative and As much as I like that sound I only found Sisters of mercy like 2 months ago. I need more music. So far I've figure that I like industrial music and post punk the most. Can people point me in the right direction? Plz..... I'll be really grateful

[@Accumortis]

Nicholas Brosseau Thank you very much. I always recommend the earliest goth bands first. If you like The Sisters, check out Bauhaus, The Birthday Party, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Specimen, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Alien Sex Fiend, Christian Death, and Clan of Xymox. From there, check out 90s goth bands like Witching Hour (UK), Ghosting, London After Midnight, Suspiria, and Paralysed Age. If you want some recent bands, check out some of the “Goth is Not Dead” mixes I’ve uploaded. I hope you find more bands to enjoy!

[@cuteatech]

thank you for understanding emo..

[@Morphineck]

That brief clip you played of Ghostmane - Andromeda, sounds to me like something that came out of rap and darkwave, so maybe darkwave rap, also you can have something out of synthpop and rap. As for post punk and rap... nope, honestly don't see how.

[@evacody1249]

Ghostmanes music is being called the new black metal or trap metal or whatever. But to be placed with Goths. Sorry to hear that.

[@damienbeckman-scott7016]

Where do you fall on Lifelover? In the metal scene people tend to see them more as an extreme post-punk band than a full-fledged metal band. I'm also surprised you didn't reference The Sisters of Mercy's ill-fated American tour with Public Enemy.

[@bertmercer1]

I would say only Peep refers to himself as Goth in the list you showed. They tend to label themselves as Emo. Great video nevertheless, I have subbed.

[@someplaceovertherainbow523]

This is why I refer to the subgenre as "emo rap" instead. I feel like goth is too specific to refer to the genre and as you said, it has nothing to do with the original subculture.

[@govys85]

what about the band prayers? who combines goth and hip hop. look them up!! young gods is an amazing song! and they have goth connected roots, the guy was basically in the la goth scene in the 80's while being a cholo!

[@BogWitchGrindset]

The thing is - there is some rap that I would call goth, just not the soundcloud stuff. Evil Pimp is a perfect example. He's sampled artists like Goblin and Lacrimosa. Another good example is the album Elizabeth by Killah Priest - the album art is pretty clearly influenced by gothic horror.

[@TheRealUnderCap]

Soundcloud rap is full of crap, and it’s a trap for the conformists. So I will prefer music that is based on my dark times when I was a child growing up, and been interesting to the gothic subculture, gothic music, horror films, dark food and beverages, and even the gothic fashion in clothing, colors, design, style, and even the unique personality. So I would be happy if the today’s Hiphop/rap from the 2010’s or newer should be hit the dirt, six feet under. Emos are been having the world hated themselves, while the Gothic community have been hating the current state of the world, thanks to the younger generations of people who have no common sense, lack of respect and discipline, being irresponsible to their families and friends, jobs, education, and even their futures. So yeah that’s what I’m using the power of the Venn Diagram for making comparison with the difference between the Emo and Goth, and been making my opinion on the music preference that people should be listening to something unique and interesting, besides the overrated and over promoting the most common music genre.

[@MasterCorundum]

Well, to answer the question at the end of the video, no, there can NEVER be such a thing as authentic "goth rap" because not only are their aesthetics distinctly different, but they're actually opposite.

[@CrowUnknown]

This video shows well-informative content; many of your points are very accurate covering the several subject matters you bring up to make known. People should be more open-minded about understanding what defines "goth", not to be so simply stuck on some single-directional perspective of its meaning. It helps a comprehension of anything to try and learn as much as you can about something, particularly of personal interest, and nonetheless helpful of something relevant to an interest. Always some contemporary trend that becomes as influenced of anything darkly-inclined and then automatically branded with "goth" in the name. Clearly, the very term "goth" to the majority of a population seems to be defined as anything "dark" or "creepy" or "morbid" or "rebellious" or "edgy" or like "alternative", etc. It's become such the broad, umbrella term for these things. Those unaware of what goth really is somehow came to assume it has to do with them because it's instantly based on the appearances and attitudes that many goths may convey to others/non-goths. So if someone wears a lot of black, they're automatically labelled "goth". Or if they act apathetic or moody, then they're "goth". Given that, the word has lost its meaning among a population to its more specific background, and easy for them to use as a "quick and easy" method in describing something that is basically dark or morbid or the like... This is what will always make it difficult to have others understand. I agree with all you state of defining emo and goth in relation to this whole matter, as they are always constantly misunderstood and mixed up to be even remotely similar. The examples are great and clearly convey the differences. The matter of music evolution -- mostly the way genres may "evolve" is through the advance of technology. Certain elements will always remain in being definitive of that genre (these certain elements are what define a genre -- without them, it is just a completely different genre worth a different label, depending on whether or not there are particular influences existent or not). There are subgenres and fusion genres, but to say two genres with the only thing in common being one element does NOT automatically make the two genres related. Genres may be more defined by the particular use of one of these aspects, or moreso a combination of certain elements. And sometimes, slight changes may make a subgenre... Goths can be gothic, but anyone gothic would not be automatically considered a goth. There IS a difference. I can see how it can be confusing, though. Perhaps "goth rap" or anything similar to the concept of the title could exist by the standards of containing both specific elements that define goth rock and the elements that define hip hop or rap music.

[@Kurisu_Kappsu]

This video was very educational im glad you covered it this goth rap thing has driven me insane.. I swear its like any time you tell this isnt real you get people who say well you dont want and your subculture is trash and dying. This has just gotten out of hand though these 2 thing just dont mix at all. Goth has had one really music style that has gone hand and hand with it and that is industrial. On a side note i still wear my tripp pants... does that make me a mall goth lol ( you dont have to be answer this honestly)

[@blackmoonfirethespiritualw4359]

And there's no way goth is emo

[@serenedisorder4786]

Goth=capital G Emo=capital E. Learn basic grammar, sheesh.

[@trevonnewoodard7972]

I say I'm goth influenced because I group up loving the goth subculture 🖤

[@serenedisorder4786]

You're supposed to capitalize the word Goth.....

[@WillfulVisions]

Huh. I always thought MCR was Emo. So if Emo is that stuff you talked about, what genre / subculture were all the kids that would listen to MCR, Fallout Boy, Panic!, Evanescence, Blink 182, PTV, etc.? Genuinely curious here

[@Accumortis]

Most of those bands are pop-punk or alternative rock. MCR maybe also had some post-hardcore influences in their old albums (which I personally do enjoy). I’m not sure if there’s a specific subculture for those bands in the same way there’s a goth subculture. From what I know, it’s more of a mainstream, pop-culture fandom sort of thing, rather than attending small clubs/shows and supporting underground artists, like how goth/emo are.

[@WillfulVisions]

​@@Accumortis Hmmm. Interesting. Back when I was in high school every clique needed a name and the mall goth types that were into that music were always referred to as "the emo kids". I guess they weren't emo after all, but I think it would still be useful to have a name for them beyond 'pop-punk fans'. Can't tell you how many of them claim they were goth/emo/etc back when they were in school only to find they listened to MCR, Manson, and Evanescence. Maybe they were driven to latch onto another subculture's name because they never had one. Thanks for the insight

[@razvandobos9759]

Hope you had a Merry Christmas!

[@cvrkku]

Damn I didn't know this was a thing ! Some emo / shoegaze friends listen to Lil Pee but they're not goth at all. I still think crossovers are still possible between rap and goth, if you take noise rap or industrial rap.

[@MrUnknowne187]

Prayers, the self proclaimed "cholo goths" are possibly the only goth rap group in existence..and that's only because they've name dropped goth bands in their interviews cuz they don't sound like a goth band at all.

[@Accumortis]

Richard S. They’re just whiny synthpop, or something. I’d probably enjoy them more if they were actually committed to darkwave or incorporated hip-hop into their stuff.

[@serenedisorder4786]

"Mall Goths" of the early 2000's were actually Metalheads. They listened to Metal, not Goth.

[@ketchupandplasticknives]

Peter Murphy could sit on your face and you still wouldn't have a clue what goth truly is.

[@serenedisorder4786]

@@ketchupandplasticknives *Goth

[@Memary8888]

I have not once heard of this... Kind of wish I stayed ignorant to this even being a thing.

[@soundlessfob5925]

Goth rap is one of the most annoying 'sub genres' of goth to date. Also when it comes to Lil Uzi Vert I fee like honestly himself as a person kind of fits into a darker almost goth category but the music he makes definitely has absolutely nothing to do with goth whatsoever

[@steveverdugo8106]

I heard the term emo rap being thrown around, I had no idea what people meant but just that's it seems to be popular.

[@orcarmon4527]

I just feel that people will always confuse emo and goth with other genres and styles because it has become another term for dark and alternative

[@Abuuuuuuuu]

there are emo rappers that are real emo influenced rappers like "family pet"

[@serenedisorder4786]

Emo is spelled with a capital E......

[@tomlopez1984]

Eyedea, cage, sadistik, atmosphere... are the original. True culture. Good stuff.

[@LivWildStyle]

Wow, I can't believe I am watching this video, let alone it's need to exist. Thanks for dropping some knowledge.

[@razvandobos9759]

Happy New Year Accumortis!

[@Ghostofthegallow]

I remember once being told that I wasn't goth due to the fact I liked manson, like... Really...

[@Accumortis]

Anyone can like Marilyn Manson, even people that also listen to goth.

[@Accumortis]

Oscar MacNeill I like a lot of his stuff, but he doesn’t make goth music. It’s shock rock/electronic rock stuff. Maybe he listens to goth himself, but his band doesn’t make goth music. If you listen to other goth rock/darkwave/deathrock bands, then you’re a goth.

[@serenedisorder4786]

Manson is not Goth, he is Shock Rock. Also, Goth is spelled with a capital G. If you're going to claim to be a part of something, at least learn how to spell and capitalize it correctly.

[@serenedisorder4786]

@@Ghostofthegallow *Goth.

[@Ghostofthegallow]

@@serenedisorder4786 literally no once cares mate it's been like 2 years and no one cares about how you spell it

[@GothicTeaVea]

I literally had to save up to get skinny jeans and I made the rips myself. I don't know how but somehow I managed to get $100 gift certificate the Hot topic from my family and saw a pair of trip pets for sale for $80, I bought them and a nine inch nail shirt and I still have the shirt. Went to school wearing my trip pads and nine inch nails shirt. The teachers sent me the principal's office and confiscated my chains

[@flyaway7162]

i like ghostemane

[@Accumortis]

I like most of his albums.

[@iMisogynist]

HOLY COW REAL GOTHS STILL EXIST? I THOUGHT YOU GUYS DIED OUT IN THE LATE 2000S. THIS IS SUPER COOL, SOMETHING FROM MY PAST STILL EXISTS. I'M ABSOLUTELY ECSTATIC RIGHT NOW.

[@Accumortis]

We’re definitely still around.

[@gelseygrey]

How do you feel about the band ho99o9? I find that they're more in the punk genre, but definitely have created a space for themselves in the goth and industrial culture. (Trying not to conflate goth and industrial of course)

[@Accumortis]

I’ve never heard of them until this comment. I just listened to them and I don’t hear anything musically related to goth in their sound, but they do sound interesting for a hip-hop group.

[@espresso5214]

I would like to ask a question. Why wouldn't Goth Trap artists such as Lil' Peep, XXXTENTACION, Craig Xen, LOVEJUMEX, etc. be considered part of the Goth subculture if their music does incorporate dark sounds such as minor/bass chords, reverbs, dark arrangements or dramatic and melancholic melodies as found in Goth Rock. Also their lyrics more often than not are comprised of gothic literature themes such as existentialism, nihilism, dark romanticism, tragedy melancholy and/or morbidity. I personally feel that the goth subculture are meeting their presence with apprehension due to the fact that their music is different than conventional Goth music. Just my opinion. Responses would be greatly appreciated.

[@evacody1249]

Same reason as just being brutal shows not make a band metal. The don't live up to the sound and the roots.

[@misscatnip209]

Videos older and am nlt entirely sure ill get a reply lmao but am still shooting a shot. I agree with all your saying but am confused: is witchouse goth? I only ask because of the electronic sound, that not all vocals are rap(though dome are) and the fact that most of it seems to be russian? Totally cool if isn't because ofc can like multiple things. But was curious. Also am still new to community any advice or guidances are appercaited. If any elder goths would like to hive advice or be some kind of mentor od yake it with open arms too. :)

[@Accumortis]

Welcome to the subculture! Some goths may debate whether witch house is or isn't goth, so don't take my word as the definitive and only answer... but I personally don't associate it with goth music. Rather, I think it's more so a dark substyle of trap/hip-hop/electro.

[@RAVENDracul]

thank you for this video. i am happy you touched up on this matter.

[@ghoulgoil5029]

Lol, I’ve never even heard of this before. Definitely not goth. Also I've never heard of any of the Emo bands you listed. How anyone links emo and goth together is ridiculous. Very distinct differences.

[@dumpstercub2902]

I think there theoretically COULD be a goth rap but I don't think it would sound like SoundCloud rap.