What’s wrong with this tuning recipe? | Season Five, Episode 8

It’s hard not to like a shortcut and any sort of definitive “recipe” within the highly subjective and often nebulous world of drum sounds and tuning is often welcomed. Unfortunately, these methods can often lead people astray and even cause more frustration than they’re worth. In this episode we’re focusing on the idea of tuning a tom batter head for feel and the resonant head for tone and why that really doesn’t work.
PATREON:
This season is made possible by our Patreon supporters. Join us on Patreon for access to exclusive content such as Cymbal Sounds, our long awaited cymbal series, and MUCH more: sladl.ink/Patreon
PRODUCTION PARTNERS:
GIK Acoustics (sonic treatment): sladl.ink/GIK
AKG Audio (microphones): sladl.ink/AKG
Evans Drumheads: sladl.ink/Evan...
ProMark Drumsticks: sladl.ink/ProM...
Signal chain:
Mics - Focusrite Clarett 8Pre USB & OctoPre - MacPro w/Pro Tools 2022.5
Recorded at 48kHz / 24bit
Overheads: (Matched Pair in Glyn Johns - Cardioid) AKG C314 sladl.ink/C314...
Snare, Toms: AKG C518M sladl.ink/C518M
Kick Drum: AKG D12vr sladl.ink/AKGD...
No EQ or compression in use with drum demos unless otherwise noted
Acoustic Treatment:
GIK 242 Acoustic Panels: sladl.ink/GIK242
GIK 4A Alpha Pro Series Diffusor/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIK4...
GIK Evolution PolyFusor Combination Sound Diffuser/Absorber: sladl.ink/GIKE...
GIK Tri-Trap Corner Bass Trap: sladl.ink/GIKT...
Drums:
Pearl Masters Maple Custom Extra + Ludwig Acrolite snare drum
Cymbals:
22” Jesse Simpson Clone of old Zildjian A, Zildjian 15” ‘Fat Hat’ Prototype hihats
Drumheads:
Snare: Evans G1 / Snare Side 300
Toms: Evans G1 and G12 batters / G1 clear
Kick Drum: Evans UV EMAD / EQ3 Coated White Reso
👂🏼👉🏼🥁
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*NOTE: Troll comments will be deleted. You're welcome to disagree with whatever you like but let's keep the conversation civilized and focused on drums.
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[@bdubsworld8109]

I’ve been playing for 35 years and fighting with tuning the whole way. I’m seasoned enough that I don’t have problems getting heads in tune but I still watch tuning videos cause something was still missing. You nailed exactly what’s been missing from my tuning cause I learned looser reso and tighter batter was the recipe. I like how you show the extreme of each opposite and how dead the drum sounds on both extremes. I never thought of the relationship of the two heads resonating in the harmony of near similar tones. I see how alive the drums become when you hit that sweet spot and it’s like the wood in the drum joins the party, instead of just the head making noise, the whole drum comes alive. This is the best tuning advice ever!!!

[@renz-ey707]

When I was 14 my friend's dad, who is a drummer and producer, helped me get my drums set up and sounding good. He taught me this technique of tuning. It worked for me when I was a kid, but as I got older I ran into more problems than solutions using this tuning technique. Now I have a lot more tools for tuning than I did 11 years ago, and they each have there place. When I tune for heavy stuff or I plan on muffling I still tune this way. When I need something with more sustain in a hurry I use the Rob Brown method of pushing on the head and tightening the lugs until the wrinkles disappear. Sometimes when I am working with stubborn old heads I'll do what Rick Beato does and push down on the rim while finger tightening. But more often than not I find myself utilizing methods I've learned here than anywhere else. You guys have such keen eyes and ears for "what is the sound I want? What is the sound I'm getting? And what does the music sound like?" You've given me so many techniques, and more importantly you've opened my eyes and broadened my mindset to incorporate more tones into my playing than just, "it sounds like a drum, let's play." Without taking into consideration that my drums are tuned for bepop and I'm walking into a metal gig.

[@NikoFrederiko.]

I really appreciate this channel, when we were young and broke, we played many-a-show without the drums mixed, and there was something about that era when we trying our darndest to get the most out of the live-sound. Mostly me busting my tush to keep up with cranked tube half stacks lol, at least the Saturation of cranked distorted guitars provided a natural compression and kept my cardio going.👍

[@NikoFrederiko.]

Mic'd ** 🎙️ up

[@PatrickWitherow]

I've been playing around with different heads recently on my vintage kits. Started off with coated Ambassador (sorry not Evans!) over coated Ambassador. Then went to clear Ambassador over coated Ambassadors. Now I'm at clear CS Dots over coated Ambassadors. Each head definitely has a different feel and required some work both top and bottom to bring the drums to life and to sit where I like them. It can get a little frustrating at times - but you learn a lot about your drums and the sounds you like and sounds you discover in the process. Today I tensioned up the snare-side head on a snare and immediately noticed the difference in feel on the batter head to the point if not liking the feel - so I changed it back. It really is amazing how it all works together to give you the sound, feel, response. It's not just putting heads on drums!

[@MrAngryTwinkie]

Give Ambassador Vintage and Emperor Vintage heads a whirl!

[@b.p.879]

Dude I noticed the same thing when I decided to experiment by changing up the tuning on my snare-side head, and it made the batter head feel and sound totally different. Everything else you said is also right on, I've spent so much time tuning and you really do learn so much about your kit.

[@PatrickWitherow]

@@MrAngryTwinkie I ordered a coated Ambassador X to try next. A little thicker and coated…I’m just loving the experimental aspect to all of this.

[@PatrickWitherow]

@@MrAngryTwinkie I tried a vintage Ambassador and it kept sounding wonky. So far the CS Dots have really impressed me and coated Ambassadors.

[@csciabar]

Videos have been reading my mind recently haha

[@shannonpollard4051]

This is so great and glad you delved into this territory because so many variables exist but as usual you’ve taken a calm, positive & rational approach. Well done and thanks

[@StuartJrBarrett]

I have no words! These guys are top notch. I’ve been struggling to tune my 13” rack on my 1965 Ludwig kit. Just the clear explanation that experimentation is the key makes me feel good to know that my work is not for nothing. Thanks guys and please keep up the AWESOME work 😊

[@jonashellborg8320]

The common advice that baffles me is to tune the snare side head super tight, prescribed as a generic recipe. Most often I like it tuned with still some give in the head. But there was this one, deep steel snare where a cranked snare side head worked best. It’s like you said, so many variables to consider, we can’t stare at one of them and hope that approach will work. Nice video!

[@paulminga4344]

Aside from the awesome sounding kit and awesome video editing and awesome info being taught I really appreciate the quality of your vocals. Everything about your content is top notch. It makes for a very very enjoyable experience when watching your videos. Keep up the great work.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Thanks so much! It means a lot to know that you appreciate the production work that goes into this series. -Ben

[@RVADrummer]

Great video! This gives me some ideas as to how to shape my kit that I use at my church and the new kit I am going to purchase for gigs.👍

[@chrisberry-dullboy]

Stewart Copeland used to (maybe still does..) tune batter higher than reso on his toms. I love the sound of his toms and I'm thinking of going this route myself - definitely more responsive rebound and, I would guess, cuts through the mix nicely. Actually, I've seen drummers use only heads, no shells, and get a decent sound too. lol. I guess any object that can be hit can make it on a record. ;-)

[@drummercarson896]

I love those kinds of videos

[@jmfs3497]

I don't have resos, because I toured in a very small vehicle for a couple years and needed to "nest" things inside each other in a cartop carrier. The kit is 28 years old, and now I'm looking at new kits, with resos and it is new territory for me. All my tuning and sustain is pure batter and touch. I am honestly a little anxious about using resos now, because I have become so accustomed to the sound of only batters. The other side of me is excited about getting my drums to sing even more beautifully with having more to tune.

[@marcin7154]

I don't know what type music You are playing but suggest to start with coated ambasador both sides, tuned equal, then go up with reso, half tone.

[@b.p.879]

Hey Cody, I really dig your vids and I love learning new things, thank you!

[@JasonSmith-ms5vb]

Enjoyable video. After watching a Gene Hoglan video I’m now tuning the kit by finger tightening without a key which sounds good. This type of video is a great resource for future tuning experimentation. Cheers ☕

[@realisticdrumming]

it's always a dance between reso and batter!

[@drumjedi5301]

I have always tuned by ear, never by exact pitch, and never using a Drumdial or Tunebot. I can see where these can be helpful to someone trying to replicate a tuning repeatedly or to someone who struggles with tuning, but I've found I get a better sounding and feeling drum by simply tuning the drum, batter and reso, to what "feels" right. I get the tension even across the lugs, and then make adjustments until I get both heads and the shell working together to get the sound and feel I want. Through the years I've tried reso tighter than batter, batter tighter than reso, both the same... I generally do stick to reso higher than batter. However, the specifics of those relationships vary depending on the individual drum, the room I'm playing in, the type of music being played, whether the kit is mic'd or au natural, etc. Every situation is different and calls for different tuning. This is why it is so important for drummers to experiment, learn the drum and which heads and tuning do what with that drum, and learn how to adjust on-the-fly to whatever situation they find themselves in, and not get stuck in a "this works, it always works, and I'm not doing anything different ever" mentality. This video is on point! Great stuff, as always.

[@drumjedi5301]

@@benking9160 You mean by tuning the way drummers have been tuning since the invention of the modern drum? I'm sorry, but technology will never fully replace a well trained and practiced ear and good tuning technique. I have spent time with a Drumdial and a Tunebot. They work great, produce stable and repeatable results, and can be great tools. However, they are not necessarily needed to produce a great drum sound, and I'd argue that reliance on such tools degrades the motivation to learn the science of drums and good tuning practice.

[@bojackharkness1971]

This works just fine for me. Make sure the reso head is on and has a decent amount of tension. Then tune batter to feel and adjust them both a lil to get preferred sound

[@richardjohnson2331]

The feel method of tuning works OK in an acoustic situation, but when you mic a drum it doesn't always work as well. You also need a drum with a thin shell because the shell resonance is needed. However once you close mic a drum the batter head becomes such a large amount of the sound that you have to tune for the mic. Tuning a drum is an art. I use the bottom head to control the length of the note. I like to get a little rebound from my Tom batter, but it's not a jazz tuning. I can't stand too loose of a batter head either. I'm also looking for a good general tuning. I find a lot of modern tom sounds to be too dull and flat. I like a little bounce and stick in the tone. But I'm old school.

[@xaverk]

In acoustic situations the drums project better with the reso head tuned lower than the batter. That is what Steve Maxwell says and it is also my experience, especially in high tunings like with Bebop set tuning. I personally like the reso a minor 3rd lower. And this should be equal on all toms of the set to get a consistent instrument sound. The equal tension is also extrem important. Just 1 rod out of tune results in wobbling overtones and loss of resonance. Again, this is especially important in an acoustic, not so loud setting. You‘ll be astonished, how the feel and your playfulness is affected by harmonic tuning of all toms, for example in fourths or fiths. And as far as the snare drum is concerned, the overall tuning is not that crucial, as long as the sympathetic buzz is not too loud. But I learned that drummers who use often drum rolls in their playing should be aware that a wrong tensioning (of the batter as well as the reso head) drives you nuts. Invest time in optimizing your tensioning and your rolls will become better than ever without endless frustrating practising.

[@rosmakloma]

every intro...Cadence Independent Media production = "Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration"

[@alefejamarino]

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAA

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Ha! Just remember that, while you've been watching for a while, this video is someone else's first time seeing an episode of Sounds Like a Drum. Credit where credit is due, know what I mean?

[@herreradanejabez8207]

10:25 love the last one so much how did you tune it?

[@xanderwebb7998]

I really want to see you guys tackle a gushy snare sound like in worship music or in tracks like Good Thing by Sure Sure

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

That was one of our very first episodes: Ep. 6 How to Get a Fat Snare Sound kzbin.info/www/bejne/morZlIeCbdtsoKs

[@danisalicce]

Cool experiment , what about tunning with digital tuner like tune-bot? i use it and it's really tricky

[@AkoDrumms]

Sounds Like A Drum, I wach alot of your great vids. Can y tel me simple basic direction for higher toms, floor pitch but less sustain. Thank you

[@TessaAnderson]

Thanks for posting these for drumming nerds like me

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

You're in good company!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

I have a Sonor kit where all the toms sound great except the floor tom. It has this Evans head on with the clear top that has that ring around it and a stock reso-head. I assume I just have to change out the heads to get the sound I want. It sounds like a garbage can no matter how I tune it and is super annoying as I've had other floor toms which seem to be great no matter what I put on them. . I doubt it's the wood because like I said the other shells in the kit sound really great especially the bass drum and the snare is pretty good for a mid range Sonor 'showcase' kit. I forget the name of the kit off hand.. but it's from early 2000's.

[@stixxnstonerz3450]

I’m lazy so I play concert toms and tune the batter to feel.

[@davidperez5089]

Phil Collins has the same characteristic!

[@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777]

that's how I did it when I started. It's a certain sound and can sound great in some rooms - and of course as you notice it's loud. . Kind of a 'no brainer' way to hit the toms and get a predictable sound but it's not very refined. Funny how with recording though.. many people will 'eq' out the resonant frequencies of the reso head.. so no wonder many people record with concert style.

[@davidperez5089]

@@SPINNINGMYWHEELS777 ala van halen 1. Against Alex will too!

[@vitalismunchen5740]

g12 on 16" tom?

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Yep!

[@utopiamath9070]

Hi, I've watched a lot of your videos over the last few years, which has greatly helped me put my new WarpIV PRO 3D Monster Drum Kit sample library together. It's been a massive project (more than 100 GB samples) and I am getting ready to release the library in a few months. Would you be interested in learning about this library and all of the technology that went into it? Just to give you an idea what I did, I recorded everything in a totally dry room with high-end Earthworks omni-directional mics. My main kit was the Pearl Masterworks Urban kit, embellished by high-end cymbal/hi-hat collections, a variety of awesome snares, and a couple more toms (total of 9 toms plus 20 and 22 inch gong toms). Each tom has 6 configurations involving different heads, damping, and concert toms. A lot of technology and care went into the library. I'd love to get some expert feedback on what I have done before I officially release it. Let me know if you (and maybe some of your listeners) are interested and we could do a zoom meeting or something like that.

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Wow! That sounds like an incredible amount of work. We’re not really experts in sample libraries (I don’t either of us has really spent any serious time with them) so I’m not sure how much value we’d be able to bring to the table. If you’re interested in discussing strategy for release and marketing, that’s something I’m available to consult on. Hit me via the business contact in the “About” tab of our channel. Cheers! -Ben

[@utopiamath9070]

@@SoundsLikeADrum Thanks. I’ll contact you… I’d really like to talk about all of the techniques I used to record and effects to make the drums (hopefully) sound amazing. Your advice on tuning really helped me.

[@michaelmoore9726]

I think the interval of the two heads has the most to do with feel

[@zululDrummer]

these videos are perfect for my nerd brain

[@tylerblake3596]

Since I tune quite high for “jazz” sounds, I kind of use this mentality, but I think it’s mostly because I’m used to the feel of tighter drums. I tend to feel rather uncomfortable on a low-tuned kit these days bc I’ve been playing high tunings for 3-4 years now. I see that more as a weakness/quirk of my playing rather than a part of my tuning philosophy, lol.

[@titanicgrupomusical6953]

Can you talk about the microphones that you have for snare and toms please ? Sounds great, thanks

[@SoundsLikeADrum]

Here you go: Miking Up Sounds Like a Drum | New Production Partner: AKG kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKDagZJrd76WfMk