Sourcery By Terry Pratchett [SPOILER] Discussion | Discworld

[@mgormley7530]

My favorite part of this book is how Rincewind, famed coward, who flees from everything, still steps in to save Coin from his father. His *first* instinct is to get between the abused child and the sentient murder staff.

[@jeremyhulka3582]

If you’re reading a book with Rincewind, you have to change expectations a bit. If Rincewind is a primary character, you’re going on a roadtrip. He’s a tour guide through areas of the disc you haven’t explored yet. You’re not going to get much in the way of plot or character development.

[@7Seraphem7]

True, most Rincewind books are about him stumbling into someone else's story and trying to just survive till the end.

[@kadnhart6661]

I've heard Rincewind compared to Alice in Wonderland for that reason -- he's less a character and more the vehicle that takes us to interesting characters and locations

[@dajtoad1]

That’s an interesting thought, and sounds right to me. Perhaps that’s why I don’t enjoy his books very much.

[@InsufficientGravitas]

@@kadnhart6661 The true protagonist of rincewind books is the luggage.

[@almogdov]

I love Rincewind's logic 'running to isn't important, it's running from that's important, the to will sort itself out'.

[@garypoisson2733]

This book has one of my favorite Discworld bits, when the Ice Giants ride forth on their glaciers to destroy the world (forgive me if I'm a little off on this quote), "In accordance with prophecy and the triumph of thermodynamics." I love that line.

[@ErmenBlankenberg]

Pratchett himself admitted that he didn't exactly know what to do with Rincewind as a character after Light Fantastic, but because Rincewind was such a fan favourite, Pratchett wrote nonetheless. That's probably the reason why some don't consider it as well developed and layered as other Discworld books are.

[@robh_uk]

Nevertheless, Interesting Times and The Last Continent are superior to Sourcery.

[@michaelburke4048]

@@robh_uk Those are probably my two favorite books in the whole series. Two of three (in no particular order) if you add Guards Guards. Four and Five would be The Truth and Pyramids.

[@vojtechhoracek7704]

​@@robh_uk Agreed. Partly because there's the travelogue aspect and a lot of poking fun at RW stereotypes, but partly also because Rincewind is forced to engage in conflict that is predominantly driven by other humans - the "creatures from Other Dimensions" have always felt to me like a bit of a cheap spoof of a fantasy trope. At first I liked Interesting Times more, but lately I've become partial to The Last Continent, particularly the end bit about the torrential rains and how it ties up with the creation myth and the Creator of XXXX.

[@robh_uk]

@@vojtechhoracek7704 I wonder what Merphy will make of The Last Continent in particular. It's a satire on Australia, but more specifically on how the British view Australia. Actually, even more specifically it's a satire on how we saw Australia 20+ years ago. References like XXXX I'm sure will be lost on her through no fault of her own.

[@vojtechhoracek7704]

@@robh_uk TBH I as continental (pun intended) European didn't really have all the knowledge to get many of the references in The Last Continent either, even though part of my family emigrated to Australia in the 80s and we visited a few times. But it certainly pushed me to look up some of the in-jokes I didn't get, and to appreciate them during later re-reads when a lot of the things clicked. That's been such a joy with Discworld: there's always something extra that you figure out after who knows how many reads. Like solving a puzzle to which someone keeps adding little extra pieces every now and then.

[@joltrail3588]

Rincewind arc is a curious case. So prepare for a interesting time with "Interesting Times" and "The last continent" :D

[@kadnhart6661]

Sourcery is definitely one of the weaker books, but I love how this was the first time we saw Rincewind hit "Fuck it, no more running." The wonders you can accomplish with a half brick in a sock!

[@mndrew1]

Been a good while since I reread the early discworld books; but what I remember best is 1) the wild footnotes and 2) CMOT Dibbler.

[@robh_uk]

Yeah, Sorcery is also for me one of the weaker books. It's fun and kinda silly, but has less depth than a lot of other Discworld novels. I'm not surprised you found less to say about it. But back to the witches next, maybe the first proper Witches book. Looking forward to your review of Wyrd Sisters already.

[@monkeymox2544]

When I first started reading Discworld I was probably about 13/14, and I loved the Rincewind books so much. I really didn't like the Witches ones. This probably had something to do with being an adolescent boy. I still love the Rincewind books, but in general they are now amongst my least favourite, and I adore the Witches. I think that at 13, a lot of the references to literature and folklore in the Witches books went over my head. I am very excited for you to read Wyrd Sisters, it's such a good book. IMO the quality now remains consistently high until Unseen Academicals, for obvious and upsetting reasons.

[@kylemacdougall8355]

I predict that Wyrd Sisters will be one of your favorites!

[@moleman1976]

If you're going chronological now, it will be a while, but I can't wait for you to get to the Tiffany Aching series of Discworld books. Though they are linked to the Witches run, I think they rate as their own series, as Tiffany is the main character and the known witches only generally only come in at the fringes. It was billed as a YA series, and I think that's appropriate, as the subject material doesn't rise to offensive levels for young teens, but the writing, and the concepts, are phenomenal for all ages. The end of the first book has my favorite scene in all of the Discworld series - every time I read it I tear up due to the emotional power of the writing! You're also a long way from meeting Moist - another favorite character with a series of his own on the modernization of the Discworld! You're not too far away from "Small Gods", which was my first intro into this universe (and still a favorite). And you still haven't experienced "Hogfather", "Night Watch" (which contains my single favorite ever paragraph from Pratchett), "Carpe Jugulum" (with one of the most hilarious descriptions of cats ever), or "Thud" (which sounds stupid but has some of the most moving descriptive language I've ever read)! I'm so excited to see what you think along this ride! There is so much amazing writing waiting for you to get to it. In your own time, of course - I'm not trying to rush you. I'm just letting you know that any Discworld video from you will be an instant watch from me, and likely thousands of others who love this series so, so much!

[@andrewvalentine797]

I think that reading the series in publication order is absolutely correct, but allowing for the fact that the first couple of books were more parodies of fantasy, but Discworld quickly became more general satire. I think most people who know and like fantasy, particularly old-school fantasy (and maybe other genre fiction like sci-fi, horror, whodunnits) will understand the point of The Colour of Magic and the Light Fantastic, whereas later books such as Guards! Guards! are much more accessible to the general reader. And, admittedly, just better. I also think that people who read the books by arc are missing out. Discworld developed very organically, and part of the charm is jumping from place to place, from character to character as the world develops. And you don't get bored of one particular character or group. Also, just because the next book in the series is a Witches book, for example, that doesn't mean that Vimes, or Death, or Rincewind can't show up in unexpected ways! I read these books as they came out since the 80s, and the one mistake I made was to skip the Tiffany Aching series later on, as they were marketed as more YA. They are a little different and a little more child-friendly, but still excellent. You'll love them, don't skip over them like I did!

[@EGDD-42]

Rincewind is the antihero aka Mr Bean of Discworld, he improves / fleshes out in Eric and then gets into true form. "...what mashed?"

[@donaldpratt2296]

I love how it is always basically physically impossible to notice and remember that his name is Cohen the Barbarian.

[@Nastyn1nja808]

I love Discworld and have for years.Also the Humor always reminds me of One Piece and Vice Versa. Both so funny

[@sharonrose5134]

I have just started reading the disc world books, Sourcery is my fifth and I loved it! Rincewind is my favourite character so far. The luggage is such a great side kick. 😊

[@7Seraphem7]

Yeah, gotta agree this was just a... fun but not much more type story. Really that applies to most of the early Rincewind books since these were the ones where Sir Pterry was more going for just general parody of fantasy stories over using the fantasy setting as a mirror for the real world for satire of both places that really make Discworld so amazing. And the term you were struggling with was The Apocralypse, portmanteau of Apocalypse and Apocrypha. Since every knows the story about the apocalypse and that it'll happen, but no one knows where those story came from, when it will happen, or can even agree on exactly how it'll go beyond a few vague generalities.

[@michaelgleeson8091]

Now would be a good time to read the Hogfather.

[@davidsachs4883]

You made the comment about just doing quotes I don’t like D&D parties to have absolutely no magic weapons. My niece and another middle schooler rolled up starting characters so to give them starting magic we played a Shakespeare quote game. My niece did well with the comedies (I had taken her to) while the boy knew Romeo and Juliet, they got nothing from plays titled after English kings

[@bAd12cheZ]

My mom really likes your enthusiasm! She was passing by and you gave her a smile :)

[@sjattemptstodraw7937]

What!?

[@fatboy7609]

Do you want to finish a book that makes you stare off into space and think for a solid thirty minutes? Terry Pratchett's Small Gods. Just thinking about, "He always changed people. That was his triumph... but I am me," makes me want to cry.

[@ClyDIley]

Oh snap! Just came across this and noticed you've been on a Discworld kick for the past 8 months! Cant believe I've missed that. Damn you YT! A flury of characters and shenanigans just came flooding back into my head! Originally I binged the city watch books (and a few others) in 20...21? I spose... Men at Arms was my first and quickly cemented Sir Pratchett in my top 5 (Oda, Tolkien, Pratchett, Lynch, and Adams), although tbh Im not entirely partial towards everyone on the Disc. Judging by our similiarities in taste, I doubt you'll be overly fond of the witches, and what can one really say about Rincewind other than God bless and protect him... But Im sure you'll love Death, especially in his cameo, and you'll definitely like Lipwig and love the Watch. Carrots kinda like what Id imagine Luffy and Ace would have been like if they'd turn out the way Garp had wanted them to be heh... There's just something beautiful about that simple absurdist humor and highjinx done right.

[@tyriquesmith8850]

I haven't read this book, or any of the books in the Disc World series, but I enjoyed Merphy talking about it 👍

[@ErrenaGlaciell]

The next two Rincewind books are a big jump up in enjoyment for me of his sub-series ^_^ Interesting Times and The Last Continent are some of my favourites

[@WhatAboutZoidberg]

Rincewind is all about the dialog for me. He's funny, obtuse and generally a good guy (despite his best efforts). he meets really interesting characters, but they have felt like driving with the pedal to the floor. Just hang on for the ride and watch as things go by. SO HAPPY to see Wyrd Sisters is next, If thats less than a 40 min discussion I'd be surprised.

[@Agatean]

I had a very similar feeling to you when reading and thinking back on sourcery. I loved rincewind to begin with as he was my entry point to discworld, but i find as fun a ride as they are (and sometimes they are hilarious) they do seem to have less to delve into or revisit later. Looking forward to you getting further in the series.

[@fransmith3255]

This book really asks, "What is a hero, really?" What makes a hero? And it compares Rincewind with the self-proclaimed heros. Who is really the hero here? The guys who run around saying, "I'm a hero!" Or the reluctant hero, who would rather run away, but does what is needed to do anyway. That's the major theme. As with most of Pratchett's writing these are lesser explored, yet important universal themes.

[@CNBlaze-qj7fg]

Sourcery isn't my favorite either but any Discworld book is what I turn to when I need a break. I highly approve of your choice. "Any rock in a storm is better than none," sort of thing. 😉

[@cedarwood931]

Pretty much my thoughts exactly. *Sourcery and The Light Fantastic had stronger plots and more cohesive narrative structures... but I just didn't enjoy them as much as The Colour of Magic, Equal Rites, or Mort. Next up: Wyrd Sisters! Granny Weatherwax and Nanny Ogg are two of my favourite discworld characters. Granny starts to really shine in this book, IMO. I also feel like Death gets better amd better throughout these first several books. *Edit: The book is called Sourcery, not Sorcery.

[@salmanhyder1655]

Just finished it. The only downside part was those Apocraylpse Horsemen meeting at an Inn near Quirm. Their conversation was hard to pick going off the head just as their horses went off our heads towards the approaching Ice Giants. The Patrician, it looks like, picked up the habit of catching flies with his tongue from his small tenure as a newt or a lizard. Funny in many ways. Dungeon Dimensions were too much claustrophobic to me. I think many key concepts, whether geographical or conceptual, were mentioned making it a good standalone book. I enjoyed it a lot. Their Klatch journey was interesting and vivid. It was very laminal and surrealistic experience. Overall 4/5 for me.

[@TakittixD]

Did you stop reading discword?

[@Tintenstreuner]

You're the first person I encounter who also isn't super into Rincewind in comparison to other protagonists. So far I've only ever been the only one. I also like him, but if I had to rank everybody, he wouldn't be super up high. Just like you, my favourite character was Death right from the beginning. However, my favourite series ended up being the wizards (sometimes with, sometimes without Rincewind). I can't wait for you to meet my favourite characters Lord Vetinari, Mustrum Ridcully, Ponder Stibbons, Magrat Garlic and Susanne! 🤩

[@ghjong001]

Me, three. I like Rincewind himself, but the stories just feel kind of empty and soulless; later on, I actively dislike all of the non-Ridcully Wizzards. I guess Stibbons is alright, but the rest of the faculty are just boring and kind of shallow. Fortunately, all of the other major arcs and most of the independents are outstanding.

[@simonchirps]

Sourcery is one of the weaker Discworld books, but still really fun and readable - I also read it in about 24 hours over a weekend. Looking forward to you getting back into Witches next.

[@jonasquinn7977]

Death is right, cats are nice. Also I would 100% take a “best Discworld quotes” video

[@stephenbarrett8861]

Interesting Times is the best Rincewind book!

[@7Seraphem7]

Can't really argue with that.

[@AllyCraig]

I skipped most of the Rincewind books on my first journey through Discworld, so I only just read it for the first time this month. My feeling is much the same - it was well executed but something feels lacking compared with Pratchett's better work. There's some fun moments and memorable quotes (I love the Death quote you singled out), but it just isn't a classic. But Wyrd Sisters is next, and that's the book that set me on my Pratchett journey a couple of years ago, so... I think you'll have a lot of fun with that. Especially if you're familiar with Shakespeare.

[@seanaugust]

They might not be the best, but I love following Rincewind. Definitely watch the movies.

[@josiah2535]

I see a lot of people saying Eric comes after Wyrd Sisters. Does it really? I always thought Pyramids was next.

[@junebunchanumbers]

The Rincewind books are, generally, romps - lots of fun to be had, but not terribly deep. This changes with Interesting Times, which is loaded with things to say but which arguably hasn't aged well, and with The Last Continent, which is a mess.

[@esotericexplorersmartinez493]

i agree i got 3/4 of the way done and i just couldn’t finish it Even though im a huge fan of pratchet i haven’t read everything yet but this one i liked the least.

[@keravnos2231]

Death is ma kind of guy to hang out with

[@MonsieurBooyah]

rincewind is in that falstaff/scooby doo area of protagonist, but with magic so it's more fun

[@michaelburke4048]

That's fair.

[@jellevanbreugel325]

Soft spot for Rincewind, agree it's one of the weaker characters. Some of the later Rincewind's are excellent though!

[@Kato86]

Yeah, Sourcery I think is generally regarded as one of the weaker books. As with most Rincewind books it lacks strong themes, for one thing. I feel like there were lots of missed opportunities, e.g. fleshing out Coin, not dropping the Archcancellor hat storyline halfway through, focusing more on Conina or Nijel... There were also good things, like I enjoyed the idea behind the djinn, a decent time before Aladin, the comedic traps, the different wizard reactions to Sourcery... Also, kind of clarification (?) Rincewind didn't object to dropping the robe and hat because they were nice but because they made him a wizard, which is the one thing he values more than being alive (maybe)

[@Zonker66]

"It's a nice robe. It's a nice hat" This might be (my opinion) the most off the mark I've heard you in any video. That 'nice' robe and hat... that is Rincewind. They identify him. He couldn't even understand the concept of giving them up. It's like when Vimes is told to give up his badge. "But it's my badge". He can lay down his sword, but he IS the badge.

[@merphynapierreviews]

so I was quoting the book here, but I can understand why the way I quoted it was confusing. Nijel was the one that was saying "It's a nice hat" when he was trying to validate Rincewind after he told Rincewind to take the hat and robe off. Rincewind *did* respond to him by saying "A wizard isn't what you *do*, it's what you *are* and the idea of taking these things off would be like taking off your identity. So I agree with you, I probably just didn't elaborate enough in the video and it was confusig

[@Zonker66]

@@merphynapierreviews If I misunderstood, I'm glad. It was strange to believe you misunderstood his character. You're much better at reading characters and understanding nuances than I am.

[@dens2002]

I like that you autocorrect Cohen the Barbarian to "Conan" :o) (Now go aquire FABLES (Vertigo Comics)

[@arcanethink]

Nonsense! Rincewind is literally the strongest wizard. It is canon that what makes a wizard above all else - even magic is their ability to survive and stay alive despite all odds. No wizard is better than Rincewind at staying alive.

[@susannahlewis8464]

Even with my least favorite Discworld books I have a good time. Like, my least favorite is Monstrous Regiment, and I wouldn't call it a bad book. Just not my cup of tea as much as the others are.

[@b1merio]

Cats are indeed nice lol

[@armcie5080]

I think this book was basically a result of fans demanding more Rincewind. Terry had, as he put it "discovered the Joy of Plot" by this point, so there is a story to the books (as opposed to the chaotic road trip of The Colour of Magic), but its not a particularly well done plot. This book is TCoM with some of the humour replaced with a meh storyline. Your reaction is appropriate And its also appropriate to treat the Discworld as your fun, safe space. Come back to it when you're down, or need something different. Its a good place to be. You're on book 6 (Wyrd Sisters) 8 is one you've already read, and then 9 is Eric. Eric is another Rincewind story. It was originally published with about 25 part and full page illustrations by Josh Kirby. There are also editions available without illustrations. I don't think the images add a lot - I'm personally not a fan of Kirby's style - they're certainly not essential, but you may want to seek an illustrated version if you want the full experience.

[@garypoisson2733]

For me, Paul Kidby is the definitive Discworld artist, to the point that when I read Pratchett's minor disagreements with him here and there, I'm almost always on Kidby's side.

[@dajtoad1]

I think you’ve skipped Pyramids.

[@danddjacko]

How many of the Pratchett books have you actually read?

[@Zonker66]

Apocralypse... as in 'apocryphal apocalypse'. a-pok-ruh-lips. Ain't the series a great way to unwind your mind?

[@NowImGonnaStarve]

Easy 4/5 for me.

[@Paulfroe]

Rincewind is the definitive antihero. Unlike so many other antiheros he has no special skills, hes not strong, hes not skilled with any weapons and has no special powers. Just an average guy, but when the excrement hits the fan he does the right thing. (ok he does have a talent for languages). The early books with him in really are mainly just for fun and parody, rather than deep meaning.

[@reutermo]

As a big Discworld fan Sourcery is my least favorite book (together with Moving Pictures). They get a lot better later on!

[@ronniegraham1]

Small Gods, for me, is the first that had a good story. You're a fair.bit away from that yet!

[@notrixamoris3318]

Oh my only 15 minutes run time...

[@wreade-vc6et]

This certainly felt meh (by discworld standards) on my first read but its oddly one of the ones that i found most enjoyable to revisit years later.

[@kurathchibicrystalkitty5146]

For the love of Death, Merphy, please don't torture your books by bending the covers! 😱

[@dinam3236]

Sourcery's probably my least fave Rincewind book. Rincewind's a great character, but (with a couple of exceptions, which I can't really say here because spoilers) in order to really shine he usually needs an equally strong character to play off of. And he doesn't really get that here. In the Colour of Magic/Lights Fantastic duology he had Twoflower and to some extent Cohen, both of whom were not only really great characters but had very strong and very DEFINITE worldviewes that clashed with Rincewind's... Conina and Nijel aren't bad characters, but they just don't measure up in this regard. Coin is a much stronger character, but Rincewind barely interacts with him... though the brief scenes with Coin and Rincewind are among the book's best. It's not bad, but it's not the book I'd pick in order to get people to read the Discworld series.

[@dajtoad1]

I think we all expected this. While any TP book is good, some are gooder than others. This one is pretty mediocre with only some great moments. I find a couple of minutes of Rincewind to be enough. Coin didn’t seem to have any personality, and I think the book suffered from that. I think you now have a very good idea about why everyone was screaming at you “don’t do it chronologically!” (at least not until you’ve read some of the better ones). And that’s the approach you took in the end, which has worked out well. Witches book next! I think I would have liked it also if Rincewind had had a bit more character development over his 3 books.

[@garypoisson2733]

He's got 2 more coming!

[@dajtoad1]

@@garypoisson2733 can’t remember which they are.

[@garypoisson2733]

@dajtoad1 "Interesting Times" and "The Last Continent".

[@dajtoad1]

@@garypoisson2733 Ah, thanks. Yes, two more that don't make my re-read list. But I might try again when Merphy gets to them.

[@ghjong001]

Minor expectation spoilers, but Rincewind/the Wizzards are easily my least favorite of the Discworld arcs. I like Rincewind himself, but there's just not a lot of depth to his stories; meanwhile, I absolutely hate all the non-Ridcully wizzards.

[@nazimelmardi]

That book is strange fr. But as you said, still a good one. What a weak one in Discworld is a strong one in general.

[@nicholascostanzo1258]

This is the only Pratchett book that I dislike, mostly because I’m a huge Vetinari fanboy and this book does him dirty (to the point where it’s basically a different character).

[@sinvector8020]

It *is* a different character. Vetinari wasn't done dirty in Sourcery, because the character of Vetinari isn't even in place yet until Guards Guards.

[@garypoisson2733]

​@sinvector8020 Vetinari is the named Patrician in "Sourcery".

[@garypoisson2733]

As to him being done dirty, Pratchett's still working out the kinks at this point. This is the first appearance of the named Patrician, and Terry didn't realize what he wanted to do with him, yet.

[@sinvector8020]

​@@garypoisson2733I know. That's why the Patrician in Sorcery is fundamentally a different character with Vetinari's name. Vetinair cannot be done dirty if Vetinari's established character isn't even a thing yet at this point. It's just Early Installment Weirdness.

[@garypoisson2733]

@sinvector8020 I can cosign "Early Installment Weirdness".

[@justnachoday5811]

This is my second least favorite Discworld book. So this is “the bottom of the barrel”. It’s a pretty shallow barrel.

[@mori1bund]

"Sourcery" is in my humble opinion one of the three weakest Discworld books, maybe the weakest. That means from here on out it just gets better and better! 🙂 I'm curious how you like the next book, since it is the first proper introduction to some very interesting characters -> the Witches... 😁😁😁 And yeah, Rincewind is also my least favorite arc.

[@Zonker66]

I'm sorry., giving this review a thumb's down. I deleted my opinion because no one will care, but I think you missed a lot of the humor and short-changed Rincewind (who is not a favorite character of mine). Still, he can be incredibly noble and brave. He is THE biggest coward and survivalist, but understands right from wrong... he went to Hell to save a misguided child. I just feel this was unfair to him. Huh... I deleted my opinion and gave it anyway. Feel like I owed an explanation.