Sourdough Starter and Leaven Explained | Are They The Same Thing?

Levain is a noun in the French language. By definition a ‘sourdough culture’.
Leaven is an English word. It can be a noun meaning the same as above. It can also be used as a verb defining the action of fermentation. ‘I named my leaven Flint’; ‘I use Flint to leaven my bread dough’.
You would not be wrong in using any of these words for describing your sourdough starter.
What is the difference between a starter and a leaven? A starter and a leaven essentially do the same thing. You add them to a bread dough, and they make it ferment and rise.
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[@ChainBaker]

📖 Read more in the link below the video ⤴️ 🌾 If you would like to support my work click here ⤵️ www.ko-fi.com/chainbaker 🔪 Find all the things I use here ⤵️ 🇺🇸 www.amazon.com/shop/ChainBaker 🇬🇧 www.amazon.co.uk/shop/ChainBaker 🍞 Share your bread pictures here ⤵️ www.flickr.com/groups/chainbaker/

[@SandiHooper]

Your explanation makes the most sense of any of the videos I’ve watched on this topic. Your starter grows your levain, your levain grows your bread.

[@HeyWatchMeGo]

I've made numerous (approaching a hundred, maybe) great loaves of sourdough, now that I found this channel. Before that, I had some major failures that even the chickens didn't want to eat (true story). It took me forever (probably 4+ months) to get my original starter going...that was a long time ago, so I don't actually know/remember what I was doing wrong, but my starter finally got going after I read a tip in the comments to pour off the greyish liquid on top, and feed the remainder. I don't know if that was the secret, but after doing that, I've found I have an indestructible (it seems) starter. Having said that, I'm always concerned that I'll somehow lose the magic in the starter/or forget and use all the starter and wash the jar, haha, so I always have at least 3 smallish jars of starter in my fridge, in varying stages of neglect. When I bake (which is at least 2-3 times per week) I have started cutting a lot of corners...and no longer 'feed' my starter in most cases. I just take starter from one or two of the jars that are the oldest, mix that with the water required for the recipe, with the salt, and add that to the flour. Throw in a few stretch and folds that night, into the fridge for 24-36 hrs, add a couple more stretches in the morning, then a few hrs later I shape and proof in a basket for roughly a couple of hours. I get huge compliments on the bread, now, and they look text book perfect. (Might be lacking a wee bit on the open crumb/but I'm working on that). This channel got me going, and after a while you get a feel for things, and it's no longer intimidating. I encourage anyone who hasn't watched the Chainbaker videos to do so, and remember, you're only 'wasting' about 4 cups of flour and a tsp of salt, so if it's a total fail, big deal...and Hey, you'll get there! 🙂 When you succeed, you will drive all your friends crazy sending them pictures, lol. Thanks Charlie!

[@ChainBaker]

That is great to hear! We all need to find a way that works best and there is never a sure method or recipe. It's all about experimentation and learning from mistakes. On to many more great loaves. Cheers! ✌️😎

[@trooperpompeu]

I'm learning so much with your content. Thank you, keep up with the good work

[@keithepstein2812]

My starter is always 90% white bread flour and 10% Dark Rye. Her name is Ruby. I find that the Rye provides a little extra body to the sourness that an entirely white starter can't quite match. I'm in the camp that its most efficient to make a levain from your starter when you're ready to bake and reserve 10-20 grams of the levain for your next batch of starter. This process works well for me and saves me from having an extra jar to wash. That said, what I really want to discuss is so-called "discard." I keep my excess starter ("discard") in the coldest spot in my fridge so that I can use it to supplement recipes calling for dry yeast. I add some discard to pizza dough, bagels, cinnamon rolls and almost anything else. I'm careful not to use too much, but it's nothing more than 50/50 four and water with some reduction in the total carbohydrates in the recipe. Supposedly, it helps with digestion. But for me, I really do it because it adds a nice depth of flavor, it's super easy to work with and it prevents the waste of expensive flour. On occasion, I make extra levain so that I have extra "discard" to use in the next day's dough. I would love to see more recipes calling for sourdough discard. I really love your videos. Keep doing what you're doing.

[@Sabourn]

I like to keep 2 starters! One is rye and the other a mix of whole wheat and white flour but with a 75% hydration to slow it down further. I keep my starters at room temperature, which can be quite cold ~ 18’C and only bake once or twice per week so don’t want to have lots of discard. I nearly always make a leavan to rise my dough. Thank you for all the work you put into the channel, it is one of the best out there!

[@randomscandinavian6094]

Interesting subject! I currently feed my starter every week and make leaven using 2/3 unsifted rye flour and 1/3 unsifted wheat flour. This I use for all of the three breads I typically bake: a 100% very coarse Danish rye bread, a 100% spelt flour bread and also one using fermented oats. All made using the same starter ratio with great results in flavor and rise. I typically start a day early taking my starter out of the refridgerator, transfering most of it to a very large jar, feeding the original starter glass only about 1/1/1, and the large jar 1/10/10. The next morning I feed the starter again 1/1/1 and leave it out for a while before returning it to the fridge for another week. The large jar is then fed about 1/3/3. This jar will then do me for all my weekend baking. I don’t weigh anything and go by thickness and smell alone. This seems to be working great, however I’m sure I’ll change something soon anyway as I am still learning and experimenting.

[@mothtv]

I work with your method and it seems to be perfect for me. I keep 'lemmy' in a jack Daniels glass and build my levain asi need it. Cheers for the excellent instructional videos.

[@felishiarae332]

I use my starter as a levain, and I haven't really had an issue with the breads I've made even when I use different kinds of flour. But thank you for the explanation! That was really helpful. Definitely going to check out some of your other videos.

[@julie55hope]

In my starter, there are traces of rye, wheat flours, all purpose and bread flour. I originally fed my starter all purpose and rye. Then I just used all purpose flour. I've learned so much in the 2 years since I first started baking sourdough bread. Now I will make a leaven from my starter depending on the recipe to bake a bread and only feed my starter when I'm going to make bread. Still learning and every loaf is different depending on variables in my kitchen, weather, season and even my mood! Lol 😆 Thanks for all your videos! 😄

[@AnthonyCafarella]

I just started my two starters last week. Both of them are made with flour that is grown and milled locally. They're coming along great, nice and bubbly already and I think they should be ready for bread by this weekend! I decided to make two different starters because one (Hercul-yeast) is made using 100% whole grain flour. The other (Clint Yeastwood) is made using a flour that has approximately 5% more germ and bran than standard white bread flour. I'm thinking about getting some rye flour and making a third starter eventually

[@ilyavig]

once, i got a very good thought, that really helped me understand how everything works! dough - is the same as starter (and backwards:) starter is the same, as dough! you add water and flour to small amount of starter and it grows, doubles in size. same thing if you put levain in dough. it also ferments and doubles in size. it sounds ridiculous now, but it really helped me when i was constantly failing!

[@ai-baking-f1]

Good point about using a leaven for different flours

[@markknecht9416]

As always, great info and interesting ideas. As I've shared in a couple of comments to other videos, I am also playing with long, cold fermentation. My starter, if I was doing nothing else, would get fed once a week and it takes about 8 hours at room temp to reach full height. I used to make my sandwich dough at this point but could only get about 1-2 days of cold fermentation time because it was very lively. Recently I'm doing more of your 'starter discard' idea. When I want to make dough I take the starter out of the fridge and use 150g of cold, old, not lively starter and make my dough. This results in a dough that can go up to about 4-5 days in the fridge before I bake. The balance of the starter is fed 1:1:1, given 8 hours and then put in the fridge. The nice thing about this process is that I always have one batch of dough in the fridge that's ready to bake when the current supply of bread gets low. Sometimes it's 2-3 days in the fridge, sometimes 5 days and has more flavor, but there's always dough around to bake and no pressure on the day I need a new loaf.

[@danstankiewicz8222]

Since I am in the learning process and trying to understand my starter, I still feed daily at room temp. I use a whole wheat starter (Gold Medal brand) for all my bread baking. I am on my third loaf and my starter is less than 30 days old. Your channel is extremely helpful. Thank you. (Subscribed/Liked)

[@luiscejudo-espinosa6613]

Thanks for the info in this video. Right now, I keep three flasks, but because I began with the starter some weeks ago. I keep them in order to check the fermentation times, ratios, etc. I don't known if I'll keep them in the future, but so far they're there to help me. BTW, I just made one starter, the other two come from discards and I feed all of them at different ratios.

[@NikaRunsAndBakes]

I take a hybrid approach. I feed my starter from the fridge at 1:4:4 to get enough starter for my bread recipe with 700g flour. Then I take the part that I fed, 200g, and feed it again as part of the recipe at 1:1:1. I guess this part would be called a “levain.” I completely eliminated discard with this method and it bakes amazing bread! Most breads I bake are at least 50% whole meal flour, since I like the flavor. I was going to keep two separate starters, one 100% whole meal-fed and one offshoot 100% white flour-fed. Unfortunately, the whole meal one molded (bad mold), so the white flour offshoot became my primary starter. I feed ur 50:50 with whole meal and white flours. So yum!

[@IMBlakeley]

I've just started the extra lazy mode. I don't bother to feed the starter before using, straight out of the fridge and into the dough and even if it is been in there for a couple of weeks most goes to the bread, I feed the little bit left and when it is risen back to the fridge. Sure it takes a while longer to get going but I am fine with that.

[@chopsddy3]

I keep my starter and leaven separate. My starter is “all purpose” and has been fed about everything but strangers. When I make the leaven, I feed it flour appropriate to the flavor I hope to achieve along with strong ,white bread flour. Instead of discarding active excess, I dry it for gifts or later use. Starting with the dry starter, you can build a sour leaven in two or three days as opposed to eight or more. Multiple feedings and proofs, while building a leaven over several days, seems to have an effect on its flavor . I’m starting to test this too. This may be one of the keys to controlling its flavor ,along with what it’s fed.

[@heidigartman6089]

I keep my main star 🌟 Edna in the fridge and then keep another starter in my pantry which I feed daily when I bake daily. I have kept a chocolate starter before for chocolate breads only. Great video 👏

[@themanabroad7800]

I’ve always just used my starter, I also don’t discard the excess when I refeed it as I’ve always wanted quite a lot of excess as I use it to make pancakes or I just fry off the excess with butter salt and pepper and it’s delicious. I have tried with the levain after watching one of your recipes though and it was really good!

[@JRNurse2013]

I keep 2 in case I drop one of my jars. It took me two months before I felt my starter was truly ready for bread baking and I do love my bread!

[@venla26]

Thank you! I am very very new tarter/leaven user. At my first sourdough bread, I made leaven (from starter) for 1st dough; and then used discarded starter to make 2nd one as I didn't want to waste it. somehow both breads were equally tasty, BUT the discarded starter dough seemed more active, and it raised more than the leaven one. I thought it was just some nice mistake, but now I think just like you said, you can actually use either starter or leaven to make sourdough bread. They both baked and tasted the same to me by the way! 😁

[@dubinfin8]

This was a perfect explaination and used this as my example of why I always keep a starter and leaven from the starter. It allows me to have a consistent base to leaven from regardless of what I am going to bake. Usually it is time to bake when it is time to pitch and feed. Since I will leaven from the starter that I am going to pitch, I don't really like to have pitch and feed but waste the starter I pitched. I also wanted to add that I go with 100% hydration and use unbleached 11.7% flour because of the flour's versatility I feel like it is a neutral base for anything I am going to bake.

[@koubenakombi3066]

Great video, Charlie! I use levain for ciabattas! A nice mixture between french and italian!

[@LetsTravelThisYear]

I've only been at this for about a month. So far I've just been using a starter. I can definitely see the advantage of using both, Everyone has a difference process as I'm learning. And as long as people understand what they're doing and it works for them it's great.

[@nelathan]

I have a whole rye starter, it has aromas of green apples that i love and it performs well after 1 week in the fridge without feeding. The day before baking i dump half and feed with whole wheat. Let it sit at room temp overnight. In the morning I use all bit a spoon full for the bread. I feed the starter with whole rye again and put it in the fridge after 1-2h. Letting it rest there until next week. My fridge is rather warm at 12C at the door.

[@rlwalker2]

Interesting. I'll have to experiment building and using a levain. My current approach is to keep only scraps in the refrigerator and build up the starter before use resulting in enough starter for the loaf and enough scraps to go back into the refrigerator.

[@gregargo1898]

Was given a starter and have fed it unmeasured amounts of wheat and white every day for some time room temp. Then continued wit the wheat/white combo of feeding and am now going to slowly bring it back its white base. It is by your methods here that I am learning how to not only keep a starter but also bake as I do now; learning the many different methods you employ in bread making is incredible Chef. ty again

[@ChainBaker]

Cheers! :)

[@trueleyes]

I live in southern California and many years ago a sourdough came out of San Fransico, and it was very special. It really had a sourdough taste and anyone of my era that has had that bread remembers it had a very unique taste. Then the company closed down and that bread has had many bakers try to duplicate that taste to no avail. There are even KZbin videos on it. My point here is that I have had a very good sourdough starter for Years and keep it fed on a regular basis but I never was able to make a bread with it that really had the taste I was looking for, so I use overnight or two-day fermented starters. Poolish for my Pizzas and preferments for my various breads.

[@vashonwatchdog]

Hi Dan Long story shortened; I now make enough dough to form four large boules (or more smaller loaves) and put the whole thing in the fridge to bulk ferment for at least 24 hours before pulling out enough volume for the first loaf, leaving the remainder in the fridge until I need to bake another. The mass I take is shaped and left to proof on the counter until it has reached about 80% of it's rise, I then place it back into the fridge while I heat up the oven with the cast iron Dutchie and lid within for about 45 minutes (15 to reach 500°F plus another 30 to get the cast iron hot). Removing the loaf at this point makes it easier to flip from the banneton and easier to score. All of this time in the refrigerator definitely brings out more sourdough flavor. It can take as long as 2 weeks before I have shaped the last of the dough from the fridge, and I have experienced this last loaf always has the most flavor. Worst case scenario, I once left the last of the dough in the fridge longer than I thought worthy and feared it would not rise during proofing, so I added some flour as I rolled out the dough into pizza crust; it was fabulous!

[@mikey19608]

I keep my starter (40g) in the refrigerator, I only use it for sourdough bread every 2 or 3 weeks where 80 g is needed, I feed the 40g starter 40/40, use the 80 and 40 goes back to the refrigerator. Of course I feed the started couple of times (2 or 3 times) before use. It works for me.

[@N495illithian]

I am conflicted on this point, although I am just getting into sourdough baking. I think it is quite convenient to be able to use my starter directly as leaven when desired. This allows more "organic" breadmaking as I don't have to plan quite so far in advance. However if I am planning ahead, making leaven is perfectly fine. I am also building up a new starter alongside the starter that originally gifted to me by a friend (which is bread flour only), my new starter will be fed with 50/50 bread/wholewheat flour. I will keep both for some time and compare them, but I will likely stick to just one eventually.

[@pevoform3768]

Up until last week, I kept 4 different starters, but two main ones that I am feeding right now. I had one made from corn-flour, the second made from buckwheat and rice-flour, and the last two made from wholewheat and white flour. The first two were good and made beautiful bread and Burger buns, with a nice complex nutty flavor, especially the Buckwheat one. I had to abandon these two, since corn and Buckwheat flour were pretty much bought out in my town. Additionally, ordering online was futile.

[@kraklakvakve]

I have a rye based starter and keep it in the fridge. I build a separate leaven as a preferment for my bread. I feed the starter only when it is running out. I never discard.

[@chefjoedgpo124]

I can see why someone would make a levain and keep a starter separate but personally i only feed my starter white bread flour and use it in everything from whole wheat bread to croissants only adjusting for the amount needed

[@reginag7911]

I do same. Feed enough for recipe and have a tiny bit left over which I keep in fridge for next time. No issue using same starter for different breads.

[@sandyflowers677]

What kind of flour did you start your starter with before just feeding it just bread flour? This is where it gets confusing for me.

[@reginag7911]

@@sandyflowers677I have used bread flour, all purpose (unbjeached), rye is also great.

[@Rob_430]

I have 2 starters, one I developed, and Ischia starter given to me. I alternate using them as I dry them and keep in the freezer. My starters are 1/2 white, 1/2 rye. The starter using now was dried 2 years ago.

[@gustyattaway6419]

One for rye/fresh milled grains,then another for white/light flours.works great very little work to keep two.

[@lim9571]

I was wondering if you would consider doing a video on the effects of different types of salt? e.g. comparing flavored salt (pink Himalayan etc) salts and cheap salt to more expensive in relation to the amount dough rises. Thanks for the great content.

[@trackie1957]

I suspect that the different types would dissolve at different rates, the coarser the granules the more it would be necessary to dissolve it in water before adding to the dough, while ordinary table salt can just be mixed dry with the flour (unless your method incorporates the salt after autolyze) There might be subtle metabolic effects of trace elements in the pink salt, but I think the most profound difference between the various types is the cost.

[@leeow3n]

the pink Himalayan is my favorite, much better than kosher

[@poochyface1]

It makes a lot of sense doing it your way. I'm just a beginner at sourdough, and I find it a bit overwhelming if I try to bake 2 different kinds of bread the same morning. Well I'm also 68 , I don't have the energy and the quick thinking like I used to. But I enjoy making it and especially eating it. But I do want to learn more about levain. I was keeping 2 and found it to be to much. I will do it your way from now on. We'll at least try . Lol

[@jbz9547]

I feed my starter about 3-4 days before I bake, keep the discard for all kinds of other stuff. On baking day I put aside a bit for new starter, feed it and into the fridge till next bake. Then I use all my balance starter (already pre calculated how much I need) for the recipe. (just the reverse of the scrapings method)

[@marjamerryflower]

Congratulations ChainBaker, on 98.000 subscribers

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you so much 😀

[@tonyd5623]

Thanks for the sanity check, sometimes I've had enough starter and just used it as a levain, other times I've used discards to build one. It is convenient for me sometimes to keep a larger starter since I've been experimenting more, and it seems like my kids eat these sourdough breads faster than I can make them. My baking activity has definitely ramped up after joining your channel, thank you for sharing all of this knowledge. This sourdough journey is going much better than my last one a few years ago. Also the kids named my starter Souron lol

[@barrychambers4047]

Most of the time, my starter and leaven are one and the same, just keeping about 1 gram from the leaven to start the leaven next time. By doing a little bit of math I usually have very little discards that I keep for backups. I use about 1/3 all purpose, 1/3 whole wheat, and 1/3 dark rye, in mostly a somewhat low hydration mix. This tends to keep a live and healthy starter, and it is used to feeding on just about anything. I'll build leaven in 2 and 3 stages depending on what I would like to do with it. The starter is a mix of many different starters that I have incorporated over many years. It is no doubt very diverse genetically. Never say always, and never say never! Keep your mind flexible and free to try new things. Never stop learning.

[@patrikSMD]

I keep both my starters (wheat-60% hydration & rye- 90% hydration & both around 60g ) in the fridge and use it lately as the „discard-leavening“. but actually more as a flavor-boost. Because I use a yeasted preferment as well. This way I never, and I really mean never, have any discard.

[@kleineroteHex]

My discard goes in a seperate jar and I use it in waffles, pancakes muffins.... but I already had it "explode" in the fridge, didn't bake anything and man it took on a life of its own😂

[@leeow3n]

I have kept multiple starters only when previewing cultures from different regions, but ultimately keep propagating my local culture.

[@dandtb6860]

I keep my starter as a stiff starter and then make Leven from that. I like the stiff starter because it just hangs out in the refrigerator until I can bake

[@willanderson1983]

Thank you for the video. I think I'm going to switch to separate leaven to increase consistency. It will also be better if my leaven is exactly the same as my flour

[@ChainBaker]

Experiment and see what works best 😉

[@tac926]

I keep a very small amount of wholemeal Rye starter in the fridge and use it to creat a levain for what ever loaf I want to bake. I bake twice a week.

[@samchapple6363]

Bart, Rye. My primary is Art, The Vermont strain of sourdough. I bake at least once a week

[@robbenfelix]

I keep two starters; Remy, which is 100% whole grain rye and 1:10:10 ratio, and Fiona which is 80% white wheat flour and 20% whole grain rye at a 1:5:5+1 (where the 5+1 are wheat flour and rye flour respectively). Why keep both? They behave differently and have vastly different aromas and flavors. Both Remy and Fiona have their times to be used. Remy has the aroma of a nice, strong dark beer, while Fiona reminds more of a quite strong cider. If I used Remy to leaven baguettes, for example, they would have a quite bitter taste, which is not really the thing I'm wanting from my baguettes. Interestingly enough and somewhat contrary to what I intuitively thought, Fiona is the faster and more powerful leaven of the two -- at least when making white(ish) breads, I've not used it for darker breads because that's kind of what Remy is for. Maybe that has something to do with the fact that a white bread leaven is more similar to Fiona in constituents, which was also one thing I considered when I opted for two starters instead of one; a familiar flora and diet in the leaven as in the starter. And hey, I just like to have two, it's nice to take a whiff off one and then smell the other and be inspired by the intoxicating fumes! It's a nice addition to the morning routine, smelling and feeding Remy and Fiona. The humble sourdough starter... an excellent pet; eats little, keeps quiet, is neat in the house, doesn't need a vet and best of all... leavens and flavors your baked goods.

[@bethbilous4720]

I just use my starter. I just am not sure how much starter to use in your no knead sourdough, which by the way comes out perfect.😋

[@sbm1961]

Hello there and thank you for being my incentive to enjoy my bread baking adventures! Your information regarding making a sourbread starter was wonderful but I'm wondering about the temperature of the room that the jar of starter would sit in. I keep my house around 66-68 degrees and I have granite countertops. I've read a lot about a proofing box but they are expensive. Any suggestions? Thank you!!

[@ChainBaker]

If you find that your starter or your bread is fermenting too slow, then you can either change the ratio to have more starter in relation to the other ingredients or you can use warmer water for the mix ✌️

[@dianeamero3405]

Another great video, as usual. I must admit, as a novice bread Baker using a starter, I do sometimes go into LaLa land when trying to understand all the does and don'ts of SD baking. I have a starter in my fridge but I do neglect it quite often. I hate the waste of discard and I find that I never have the needed amount of starter to make 2 decent loaves of bread without having to build up the amount of starter which means more discard. 🙄 I do love the flavour of sourdough bread but perhaps I should just stick to yeasted bread, I seem to have the best luck with that. 🙁 I keep trying to learn from your videos and have watched your 'Basics' videos many times but I guess my brain is 'over-fermented' and not wired for SD starters! 😂

[@julie55hope]

Keep practicing! There’s lots of recipes for discard… 😊

[@Bmodoart]

Discard makes amazing savory pancakes.

[@lindahuntington7486]

Discard makes amazing flatbread. With my daily discard I add spices and cook it in a nonstick frypan and with 2-3 minutes have a flatbread. Often times I add cheese once the first side has browned and then fold like an omelette and eat as a cheese sandwich.

[@henryparsons4370]

Do you find the batteries in your scales go flat in about 1-2 weeks? I have the same model and it seems to die really quickly. Great scales otherwise. Love love your videos, thank you for the content.

[@ChainBaker]

I've had mine for 3 years and I think I only changed the batteries once. Perhaps you got a faulty unit. Or maybe they got wet at some point? I know when the battery terminals corrode it can drain the batteries sometimes. Cheers :)

[@meri9943]

I'm keeping the smallest possible amount of rye starter in the fridge and - since I only bake once a week or less - refresh it before making the levain. The tiny amount of rye starter in the levain doesn't really affect the taste if the bread is made with a different flour. Wow, 100k of us are just around the corner ... May the drum roll begin! :)))

[@rayromero6795]

I’m growing 3 starters for different gluten properties. I gotta use brown rice flour, and I’m also not using this to make bread, but gluten free tortillas lol. My projects are always tough.

[@corinnacastaneda577]

Would you please make a video about making mother yeast please 🙏🏼

[@ChainBaker]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/p53MgHSbfKuegsUsi=80G43iZaDaZTEgFu

[@kevinu.k.7042]

Oh, dear I feel such a slob! I tend to call everything a leaven. (Except instant yeast which is a leaven too, hmm. ) Well I know what I mean. LOL And, still being a slob the wholemeal starter get's taken from the fridge and weighed and enough flour and water added to give me what I need the next morning and 50g over. Your method is so very much more professional. Your method protects the starter from mishap. But, OTOH getting a new starter going isn't difficult should the cat knock it off the bench in the night. Rye grain probably has slightly different yeasts and LABS on it compared to Wheat. And, I suspect wheat from different parts of the world has different yeasts/LABS on it too. Theoretically a rye starter will be different to a wheat starter fed across to rye. I don't stress myself over it and my wholewheat starter/leaven is fed with white flour prior to a white bread bake and rye flour prior to a rye bake. I'm looking forward to others comments on this. Great video So much info in there too. Thanks

[@pspfreedom]

Because I don't bake that often, I always have my starter in the fridge, then when I want to bake I make a 1:1:1 levain at night to "wake it up" and then the next day I remove part of the levain and feed it again. That has worked better for me

[@annchovy6]

I’ve seen breads with two different types of starter (rye starter and white starter usually) and there was a post on the Fresh Loaf about the reasoning for using multiple starters in a single loaf. I must admit I haven’t given it much thought. “So let us say for example you are making a bread that has a fairly high percentage of rye flour in it, we'll call it 50 percent rye 50 percent ap to keep it simple. If you use your normal AP flour starter and are prefermenting 25 percent of the flour in the formula you going to be adding 25 percent ap flour and 50 percent rye to your final dough along with the 25 percent ap flour that has already been fermented. Now if you change that to a whole rye starter and run it the same way your final dough will have 50 percent ap, 25percent rye flour and then the 25 percent rye flour that has already been fermented. Obviously rye flour does not develop a gluten structure like ap, by fermenting the ap flour first you've already wore down the gluten structure in the fermented section of ap. So the loaf you make using the AP starter will come out flatter and probably dense because it won't have as much structure to trap gasses as the loaf that you used a rye starter in. So beyond flavor there are structural reasons to play around with different types of starters... We did this experiment with Hamelman in class where we made the same overall formula 3 times with different starters going in to them. Followed it through to bake and observed the differences in flavor as well as the differences in final loaf measurements.”

[@annchovy6]

And someone else mentioned that different starters have different flavors, which I can understand given the mild white starter I keep along with the more sour rye one. “Different starters impart different flavors in bread. Mixing them also create a different bread flavor wise as well. Some are sweet and some are sour and a mix of those would be somewhere in between. This week I'm mixing 4 starters in one loaf of sandwich bread - 2 rye and 2 potato starters just to see how the bread tastes.” Too complicated for me, but I’m sure it’s true that you’d get a lot of different flavors.

[@JulRug]

I have two starters just because I was experimenting with different flours and now I can’t get rid of Frosty a blend of 50% whole wheat and unbleached all purpose and Snowy is 100% unbleached all purpose. I do make levain when a recipe calls for it and i call it *Bond 007*. I also have a jar of dehydrated Frosty because I am going on holidays and should my started kept in the refrigerator goes bad I have back up. 😉

[@joshc6699]

Tiny tiny amount of starter and wait FOREVER making the dough over a day is my way

[@ridingwilding760]

Hey any insight on making yeast breads at higher altitudes? I have read various articles online about bread baking that at increasingly higher altitudes. One example is breads proofing need to be shorter increments but with more releasing of the gas to insure it doesn’t over proof due to lower air pressure. There other factors talked about as well. And with each 1000 ft over 3500’ it changes. I’m presently living at 5000’ and used to live at 7500’ and my bread making was a guessing game.

[@ChainBaker]

Not sure how I would test that though 😅

[@jillcaponi8995]

I keep my starter in the fridge. I only bake sourdough every other week because I’m the only one eating it. I feed it 1/1/1 Several times before baking I use 90% white flour and 10% whole wheat when I feed it. It’s nice and bubbly and usually lifts the top from its jar.

[@billyburi-baps]

Like you I keep a ' mother starter' which is normally fed with 90% bread flour and 10% rye flour. When ready to bake I prepare a levain from the mother starter. I prefer to prep levains at 1:1:1 ratio and take the amount of recipe starter from this. Anything left over goes back into the mother starter. A levain can be ready to use quickly, 3 to 4 hours with the 1/1/1 ratio. Rarely I throw any discard away, I use it with yeasted bread recipes, a bakers cheat sourdough bread.....55

[@NoZenith]

I am a completely inexperienced Baker and have only used starters when other people have given them to me. I would definitely keep mine separate if I did invest in maintaining sourdough myself

[@user-sz8dj8gx8s]

Thanks!

[@ChainBaker]

Thank you so much, Scott! 😎

[@crazyleaf257]

You tightly cover your starters like that with plastic? I thought it's bad to seal it tight. Looks cool

[@ChainBaker]

It does not harm it at all :)

[@rmo9808]

It would be interesting to see how the age of flour effects the results.

[@annchovy6]

I keep two starters because one is a 50% hydration “sweet starter” which is mild and very strong, and the other is a rye starter, which is 100% hydration.

[@TheBereangirl]

😐Uh oh...I must confess that I make the same bread over and over (using my starter)so... should I hand in my membership card?🤷🏻‍♀️ In my defense, the other breads I make, I use active dry yeast. The truth is out, I live my baking life vicariously through you Charlie.😏☺️😂❤️ I use my starter as a leven...levan? You know what I mean.

[@SebMoellerM]

I only have one starter (50 g wheat, 50 g graham, 80 g water), as I’m still at the beginning of my sourdough baking. Eventually, I will probably convert it to 100% wheat. For now, I’m very happy just using the same one as is

[@eduardorodriguez4899]

Could you explain maybe how different ratios for a levain may take more or less time?

[@ChainBaker]

The more starter in relation to flour and water the quicker it will rise. How quick exactly is up to you to find out with your starter ✌

[@zck7596]

Hey just a quick question. How would you change the fermentation rate of a levain? For example if i want it to be ready in 8hours instead of 12.

[@ChainBaker]

Use more starter in relation to water and flour.

[@titch_can_i_nail_it3847]

This is so confusing I'm so desperate to try this out, but I'm so confused how you use the starter once it's fermented or leavened? How much flour to make your sour dour how much leavened do you add, its just all confusing. 🤯😵

[@ChainBaker]

Check out some of the recipes in the Sourdough Bread playlist on my channel. You will find plenty of examples to follow there.

[@danleconey3694]

What is the best lid for this? I see you use cling wrap, does cheesecloth work as well?

[@ChainBaker]

Both work just as well. I often use a plastic lid. I use the cling wrap mostly just so that I can show the dough in my videos.

[@danleconey3694]

@@ChainBaker Thank you so much! I just started baking this month from home. Your videos have taught me everything I know! I have been make sourdough everything just about daily now. I really appreciate all of the help.

[@ChainBaker]

Awesome! On to many more great bakes ✌️😎

[@alexandersalamon7242]

Only starter! Never wast. Making pancakes and crapes out of discard part. I bake bread only once/twice a week. Usually keeping my starter on the counter when baking twice a week in the fridge when once a week

[@gatovillano7009]

Hi, I have a question for you that you might find interesting: I was wondering if it was possible to use the starter method with yeast. If I were to make my dough for a bread and before I bake it, I took a piece of that dough and put it in the frige. Then, 2 or 3 days later I add sugar, flour, salt and water to start a new batch and so on. In a way, this is similar to making yogout and keeping some of the yogourt you made to start the next batch of yogourt. Would that work or would my yeast die out? I'm going to try this experiment with my next bread.

[@ChainBaker]

That is similar to the pate fermentee method. Here's more about it - kzbin.info/www/bejne/e52td6xudqiqe6M

[@gatovillano7009]

@@ChainBaker Cool, thanks 🙂

[@trackie1957]

Discard? I only discard if I prepared a levain but didn’t get to baking before it went runny. Otherwise it’s take the starter from the fridge, feed it enough to make more than I need for baking, make the dough, put the rest in the fridge for a few weeks.

[@mrtech2259]

I have a starter that I constantly feed and use whenever whatever needed. I don't do leaven.

[@HernanPastenes]

Hey, i was wondering that if you could make a video about how to use the recipe in a colder climate, I mean when you say: "If ur kitchen's colder, Just leave it for longer" how long should i leave it?

[@ChainBaker]

There is no way to tell. It will depend on the temperature. I would say just watch how the dough in my videos rises and then try and let yours rise to the same volume. In time you will get a feel for when it's ready.

[@HernanPastenes]

@@ChainBaker is there like a max time tho? i mean my house in general is pretty bad sealed due to earthquakes and rn it averages about 10~C, or is it a good idea to put it in my oven w a glass of hot water? and will the extra humid air affect it?

[@jobmegens5321]

I'll get shot for this but, I just keep a starter. When I feed it, I don't measure anything, but I do make it mostly liquid. If I had to guess, probably about 500% hydration or something like that. I keep it in the fridge and when I make my bread, I'll use most of it straight out of the fridge. I'll use the majority of the starter to replace some of the water in the dough, and feed it again. I'll play it by ear to see whether the dough needs to be in a warm spot, or in the fridge based on the time I have available. Works perfectly fine almost every time

[@ChainBaker]

Sounds like an interesting method. I have never tried such high hydration. I like that you can just replace most of the water in the dough with the starter. Might try it someday. Cheers!

[@Artair86]

I have a question about your always (as far as I’ve seen) mixing your starter / sourdough into the water and then adding the flour. The „German Breadbaking Papst“ Lutz Geißler always advises strongly against it and tells to use the flour as separation between water and starter / sourdough because in his experience mixing the starter with the water can kill some of the good bacteria in the sourdough. Any thoughts or experience on this on your part? (Or could this even be the topic of a future video, explaining the difference of doing it either way?) thanks!

[@ChainBaker]

Interesting. I can't imagine why the bacteria would be killed that way. It gets mixed with the water regardless, so why would there be any difference? A starter is super hard to kill anyway, so a little water should not do it any harm imo. Drop me a source of this information if you can find it. I'm intrigued :)

[@ChainBaker]

Awesome. Thanks for that. I will give it a read :)

[@summrrain7]

I think the high temperature of the water is more likely the cause of possible bacteria death rather than the water itself 🍞 🤤

[@Artair86]

@@summrrain7 yes, the temperature, not the water itself is the concern. Anything above optimal conditions

[@deenyc1049]

I was watching a video of someone steaming milk bread instead of baking it. Seems like a fun experiment for you.

[@ChainBaker]

Any bread could be steamed I guess. But it would be interesting to try some regular breads made in the steamer :)

[@mckennaimoh3226]

I have to admit I am the one with many different starters but not for everyone I use kamut in some of my African sourdoughs and more all purpose in my state side sourdoughs

[@artgamesforfun]

i use my starter as the levain; easy & no extra work and cleaning up.

[@WendyGachara]

Please do a video on how to make a sourdough brioche…please please please

[@ChainBaker]

Will do in the future for sure. It's on my list 😉

[@marienleblond4934]

I guess lots of people imagine they have a levain cos' they rarely use it alone and in fact it's a starter. for those who know the difference, we feed a starter to obtain it ready to use as you do. I know cos I was part of them months ago before you evoqued it 😁

[@Maplecook]

Thank you for leading down the path of yeast resistance! I'll see myself out...

[@ChainBaker]

😄

[@Momofatts1]

Could you use a starter and yeast in the same recipe and what would happen if anything. I'm sure it would proof faster.

[@ChainBaker]

It would ferment faster so you would lose some of the benefits of the starter. But if you are in a rush, then it's totally fine to do so.

[@cloudtam9931]

I do this too. I'll sprinkle a little instant yeast into the water (with the starter in it) before I add the flour. After kneading, I'll keep the dough in refrigerator for 8~24 hours. This way, I could make sure the dough would rise nicely, and still reserve the fantastic smell and taste of the natural yeast. 😋

[@Momofatts1]

Great, I've thought of trying it to get that sour taste but make the rising faster but I didn't want to waste flour trying it and having it come out bad.

[@annchovy6]

It’s pretty common to add starter for flavor to yeast-raised doughs. I often use starter in place of yeasted preferments.

[@kevinu.k.7042]

I did this yesterday. My sourdough starter/preferment wasn't read and so I added a pinch of yeast too. It works, but I added a little much yeast and the dough fermented way too fast for good flavour development.

[@Ruby-es8zf]

So I'm new In the sourdough game, and still learning lingo, etc what I'm currently getting confused on is the difference between starter, discard & leaven. I think I understand it, but then I go down in the rabbit hole & all becomes blurry again. I currently have a small starter I feed everyday. The recipe calls for 10g starter, 25g flour & water. Each time I feed it, a little tiny bit gets left behind (I'm assuming discard?) But unless I fill up a jar with that discard, there's not much to do any kind of baking with. Now today I started my process for sourdough bread. Last night I took 30g of that starter, plus 125g water & 140g flour (which Is what the directions said, I follow Ballerina Farm). Even this ratio confuses me because it is not equal ratios of 1:1:1:. Why is this? Now today it was double in size & bubbly. Even did the float test. Good to good. A new lower hydration recipe I'm following states 150g active starter, 250g water (plus 50g) & 500g flour. After this mixture, I still have about half of that active starter left. Now this is where I really get CONFUSED. what do I do with this left over active starter!? Is this also discard? It's different measurements so I don't want to mix the 2 discards together. Can I bake with his extra active starter that didn't get used in the recipe? Do people save this?(since it's not part of my original small starter). If you read this, thank you & I appreciate ANY INPUT!!

[@ChainBaker]

Discard is the leftover part which gets wasted. To avoid it or to minimize it simply adjust the amount of leaven you make for that recipe. If half of that leaven is left over, then halve the leaven ingredients so there is nothing left over. If the discard is active enough, then you can definitely use it to leaven dough. If not, then you can add it to a yeast dough for extra flavour. You can find some discard recipes in the Sourdough Bread playlist. Like biscuits, crackers, pancakes, and crumpets.

[@thomasbergan3733]

So how much levain would you use for any given recipe? Is there a percentage to work off?

[@ChainBaker]

I usually use 10% - 20% of the total flour in the leaven.

[@thomasbergan3733]

@@ChainBaker Thanks very much , I’m on day four and it’s just started to bubble up ! Fingers crossed it will be ready to use Monday! Appreciate the answer , Iv commented a few times On your vids and I always get a reply so thank you and keep up the good work!

[@wilko251088]

My levain only doubled in size, maybe slight over is this correct? ☺️

[@ChainBaker]

That should be ok.

[@cliffcox7643]

What ratio is best for sourdough bread? 1:1:1, or 1:2:2, or 1:5:5, etc?

[@ChainBaker]

That's up to you and your schedule. The more flour and water in relation to starter you use the quicker it will ferment. When I leave it overnight I do 1:10:10. If I want it in a few hours I do 1:1:1.

[@cliffcox7643]

@ChainBaker so more flour and water in relation to the starter, such as 1:10:10 gives you longer fermentation, vs 1:1:1, which gives you shorter fermentation?

[@KufluPeynir42]

Bedankt

[@ChainBaker]

🙏

[@frankmelinn]

starter and leaven separate, i keep two starter one pure rye and one white

[@edi9892]

I only make starter for a bread and hopefully nothing is left over as I don't save it. The reason is simple: I do make bread only irregularly and I don't want to grow bacteria or mold instead of yeast. Despite being in central Europe, I struggle with heat and humidity which spoils so many things and even in the fridge things won't last for long...

[@ChainBaker]

This might be encouraging - kzbin.info/www/bejne/ppqWnXqmeqd6rq8 :)

[@Bethofeden]

um sure, but your language lesson is appreciated.

[@georgehardisty8948]

I have a whole wheat starter. I normally add 10% whole wheat flour in my recipes so my starter fills the percentage.

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

Are you sure you're not a spokesperson for Doves Farm?? (You should contact them and see if they will sponsor you - perhaps after you reach the 100K milestone). Sometimes I think I am the spokesperson for both Bob's Red Mill and King Arthur Baking - however, I have no subscribers (or a YT channel for that fact) - haha! I keep my starter and levain separate. I save the discard for pancakes or biscuits and once in a while, if a recipe calls for an amount of starter that I have available, I'll make it (Sourdough Donuts, anyone??). I think I will reduce the size of my starter - I can always build a levain for future batches of SD Dougnhuts. I'll be going on a 2-week holiday soon - should I bring my starter with me? Should I even be thinking about baking sourdough? Y'all, we are almost at 98K with 100K just around the corner !!. If you haven't already, share your bakes with family and friends and post photos on your social media channels (and of course, don't forget to mention his YT channel). Don't forget to sign up for "Charlie's Baking Buddies" - a great community with other bakers - we share photos, comments, ideas, and recipes. You can find the link in the Description section (click "SHOW MORE"). Go "Team ChainBaker"!!! 📣📣📣

[@ChainBaker]

haha yeah maybe I should drop them an email just in case 😄 Don't worry about your starter too much. Just leave it in the fridge and it will be just fine when you get back :) Getting very close to the 100! But the closer it gets, the longer it is taking. Damn summer! 😅 Thank you for the support as always, Lan! :)

[@philip6502]

FedEx that starter to me. I'll take care of it for you. When you get it back, it will be a demanding diva! 😋 (You might want to note that I have never baked sd bread) 🥖

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

@@ChainBaker "Patience is a virtue" or so they say :).

[@Jeepy2-LoveToBake]

@@philip6502 I did not know that - After I had an established starter, I did make batches just to dry and store. If you are interested, I am happy to send some over to you to rehydrate. I do believe there is a process for rehydrating SD starter.

[@philip6502]

@@Jeepy2-LoveToBake Thanks for the offer, however the sourdough bug hasn't bitten me yet. Perhaps some day it will. FYI...Just put the yudane in the oven. Fingers crossed. Thunderstorm now... hope the oven stays on. 😁