STARTER vs LEAVEN (why you need to stop baking with your starter!)

Dive into the nitty gritty of my starter/leaven process! This video teaches all about the elusive "leaven/levain" that so many people talk about.
To deep dive on all sourdough topics, here's a link to my Learn to Leaven course (use code KZbin for 30% off!):www.southworthsourdough.com/c...
Link to jar spatula: amzn.to/3TTaiVb
Link to weck jars: amzn.to/47oqd0N
Discard recipe ebook: www.southworthsourdough.com/p...
discard cookie recipe ebook: www.southworthsourdough.com/p...

[@lisavasquez5157]

Good info! I think restating the importance of certain points (i.e. why it's more "efficient" to use leaven & why using a higher ratio is more beneficial) would cement the good points you make. Thanks!

[@conradluckywhite6014]

Thank you so much! I’m a beginner and I really appreciate all your videos. I need all the help I can get! 🤪

[@carmencrich7592]

So essentially you have your starter, (mine is called Nora), so if i take say 20g of Nora and place "baby Nora" into a separate jar then feed "baby Nora" with my preferred ratio when "baby nora" peaks she is now my Leaven? Then i bake with baby nora (leaven) and voila. But Nora remains my starter? 🤔 I hope i converted this right in my 🧠 haha xx Xx Am in understanding that right ?

[@southworth_sourdough]

YESSSS

[@avlisnerak]

Thank you so much!!

[@jackiebrown7388]

It took me a while to actually understand what a levain was but it's a fantastic idea 👍🏻

[@melodiesstuff1680]

Thank you! I understand a lot more now! 🙌🙌

[@southworth_sourdough]

Yay!! I’m so glad!!

[@andreasinclair3630]

This is sooo over my head 😂. Not for newbies for sure.

[@southworth_sourdough]

They’re the same thing! Have you tried making my sandwich bread recipe? It uses a leaven, and sometimes just doing it once makes it way less confusing!

[@user-nb4vg9qb1x]

It was explained in a confusing way,imo

[@josephkrynock]

How long did/do you keep the leaven before baking? I did a 50g starter 100g water and flour at 74 degrees for about 12 hours. The leaven was still at peak and the stands of gluten seemed intact, but it was runny. Do I need to shorten the time and should the leaven still be thick when adding to the dough?

[@reginag7911]

I find that the starter gets very sour over time. I now bake with the starter which I feed only when I bake bread. Feed enough to have a tiny bit left over and keep in fridge. Starter is always fresh and strong.

[@southworth_sourdough]

The fridge can actually make it more sour! The high ratio helps it not be as sour ❤️

[@reginag7911]

@@southworth_sourdough right, that’s why I feed the scant tablespoon that’s left over after every bake with a high ratio of water/flour for the next bake.

[@user-ii6tv7wv2p]

If I made a leaven to bake loaves with but didn't use of all of it in my bread, could I re-feed the remainder so it basically becomes a starter again?

[@southworth_sourdough]

Yes you can!

[@judypeterson9952]

So, cool, but i have a new einkorn flour sourdough starter (3weeks) doing great! 10g einkorn, 30g water, 60g flour, starts out as a thick ball but spreads out and bubbly! I feed every day, same ratio, have a jar of discard in refrigerator, made bread twice using a levain, worked out great! Plan on looking for some discard recipes, so if it called for a 1/4 cup starter even being so thick I wold use just the starter? Like for cookies or pancakes, maybe pizza crust?

[@southworth_sourdough]

I would just use equal parts in discard recipes! I have some great discard recipe ebooks!

[@meisievannancy]

I just keep scrapings of starter in the fridge and don't feed it. When I need to make starter I just mix in 50g water and stir all the scrapings off the walls. Then I add 50g flour and mix. Mark the glass jar and leave it out of the fridge. Mark it's level with a marking pen and wait till it doubles. Then just use all the starter at 20% and return scrapings to the fridge which I may use 2 weeks later.

[@southworth_sourdough]

Lots of people love this method!

[@jaynewpb]

What does that mean? Use all the starter at 20%?

[@meisievannancy]

​@@jaynewpbIf you want to make a loaf of bread of 500g of flour then you will use 100g of starter. They call it bakers math. That means 100/500≠0.2 which is 20%. Now the confusing aspect of this is that the starter mix already contained 50g of flour and 50g of water, so if you use all the starter then you need to subtract the 50g of flour from the 500g you desire. So you add 450g of flour to the starter to give you 50g + 450g = 500g of total flour. So in bakers math every percentage is based on the total flour you use. Which in my example is 500g. Now the starter already was wet with 50g of water, so if you want say a 70% wet dough then you multiply 0.7 times the 500g of flour you have. Which gives you 350g of water. But you already had 50g of water in the starter so you make it 350g minus the 50g = 300g of water to add to give you the 70% you desire. Last would be the normal 2% of salt bakers usually use. This does not need to be adjusted since the starter contains no salt. So it is 0.02 times 500g which is 10g. So you add 10g of salt and you are away. Now mix away and that is your dough. Hope that helps.

[@meisievannancy]

​@jaynewpb So now you have a total dough mix of 500g of flour and 350g of water and 2g of salt. Which ends up with 852vg of dough. When you bake the bread then a certain percentage of the water will steam out of the dough to give you less than 852g of bread. If you weigh your bread loaf once you have cooled it down and measure it again. Just for interest. The biggest skill is to determine what percentage of water your particular dough can handle. If you read the percentage of protein on the packaging, it may be 10% protein for cake flour or 14 or 15% for strong bread flour. So for weak cake flour you will aim for 60% water and strong bread flour maybe even 80% water. {if you are making bread} The dough becomes too sticky if you add too much water to a weaker flour or to tough if you add too little water to a stronger high protein flour.

[@samjones6546]

I have just created a starter, its only 4 days in and ive runnout of white bread flour, can i add wholemeal flour for today only?

[@southworth_sourdough]

Yes you can!

[@Ksmoth1225]

I have been trying to get my starter going, but failing over and over. The first 2-3 days goes great, but then, it stalls. Some people say you should only feed when the starter falls; otherwise, just leave it alone. Well, for me, after a few days, it never rises. If I leave it alone, within a day or two, it molds. What to do? I bought fresh flour, I do dechlorinate my water by boiling for 20 minutes and leave it for a day. I have used rye flour, whole wheat flour, all purpose, bread and all the combinations of them. I appreciate your help!

[@southworth_sourdough]

I’d suggest stopping boiling the water! That’s will kill any natural bacteria. You can just let it sit out for 24 hours uncovered on the counter and the chlorine will evaporate out! I have a free starter making guide www.southworthsourdough.com/product-page/how-to-make-a-sourdough-starter

[@Ksmoth1225]

@@southworth_sourdough Thank you for your quick reply!! I will try again with unboiled water. I was boiling my water per The Sourdough Journey instruction. In his starter guide, Tom says some municipal water contains chloramine and only way to dechlorinate it is by boiling the water for at least 20 minutes. Also, I thought all the bacteria needed came from the flours, so I never thought of it as detrimental. I will download your starter making guide and will start all over today! Thank you.

[@Ksmoth1225]

@@southworth_sourdough Also, what I described as mold grows within 24 hours. But I don’t know if it is really mold. It doesn’t have “fuzz”; it is white and the top portion of the starter gets so thick that I can scoop it out in one piece. Have you ever seen anything like this? Our ambient temperature is in the mid-70s to low 80s and humidity is around 70%.

[@ashtenkoerner7433]

What ratio would you do if you wanted just enough for 2 loaves?

[@southworth_sourdough]

You can feed 5g starter 25g flour&water or still do 10:50:50 and you’ll just have more discard!

[@EgbertWilliams]

Does the starter have to be at the height of activity to use for a levain or can it be taken at any time?

[@southworth_sourdough]

It doesn’t have to be at peak to make a leaven! But it does need to have come to peak!

[@EgbertWilliams]

Got it. Thank you.@@southworth_sourdough

[@marietketriet6111]

I think you need to explain how to use the leaven in our baking vs starter? Please.

[@southworth_sourdough]

Exactly the same way!

[@marietketriet6111]

@@southworth_sourdough quantities?

[@southworth_sourdough]

In a recipe, the word starter and leaven are interchangeable, so same quantities! Just different ways of feeding!

[@jaynewpb]

So 1:5:5 is a good levain ratio?

[@shadevrutaal]

I find it soo difficult to understand. This morning i woke up and my leaven was not so active. I fed it last night with store bought all purpose flour and my starter is made with milled ry flour. Don’t know what i did wrong. I’m new in this. Just started last month. Sooo no bread for today 🫣

[@southworth_sourdough]

Switching up from fresh milled to commercial flour can shock the culture! I would do half rye half AP flour!

[@shadevrutaal]

Aahhh ok ok. Let’s try again

[@user-nb4vg9qb1x]

“Changing the flavor of the ph"? I hate to say it but your explanation of everything was kind of discombobulated and could easily cause more confusion for beginners.

[@southworth_sourdough]

Changing the flavor AND ph. Sorry for the discombobulation.

[@smartcookie3500]

She clearly said "changing the flavor AND ph. As someone who just started for 2 weeks with a sourdough starter, your information was very clear.

[@patriotsbuyhouses1511]

is leaven the same as discard?

[@southworth_sourdough]

No discard is unfed starter

[@jaynewpb]

So leaven is just the same as starter?

[@tabear.9949]

I believe leaven is your fed starter that you left to activate over night (to double or triple in size) to bake your bread with. You will hopefully have some starter left that goes back in the fridge but that you need to feed every so often to keep it alive. You should never run out of starter because this is what you use every time you bake bread. ❤

[@erincreech7460]

so you feed your starter every day?

[@southworth_sourdough]

Yes I do!

[@nathaliesimpson9085]

From your leaven, do you keep a certain amount as your starter for your next bread?

[@southworth_sourdough]

No, because I always have a starter jar. I use all the leaven in a recipe!

[@deb04321]

It would have been helpful to explain at the beginning the difference and def of each :)

[@southworth_sourdough]

I did?

[@gingerkuhn6603]

I’m a visual person… maybe get some kids building blocks… I do have your book do you have a visual course too?

[@southworth_sourdough]

The Learn to leaven course is all video and visual!

[@madguitarist63]

You could just put your starter in the fridge and keep it much longer and make more. I quit wasting starter years ago as discard is completely unnecessary

[@southworth_sourdough]

Using the fridge can weaken your starter after time. And discard isn’t wasteful, it’s very useful!

[@madguitarist63]

@@southworth_sourdough my starter is stronger after a decade in the fridge. a starter just manages a culture, the leaven is what needs to be strong for bread. It's just unnecessary waste and management for most people as very few are making sourdough discard recipes every 24-48hrs. It can certainly work for some, but not the majority, in my experience.

[@smkdesigns24]

Confusing!

[@southworth_sourdough]

Sorry! Sometimes putting something into practice is the only way to make it not confusing!

[@MyNigellus]

Nice video, I think you could buy a microphone to sound a little better!