Other Shop Sends Us A Jeep Compass With A Battery Draw

[@jeffsaunders1968]

Eric, they were attempting to get the fog lights to stay on when using the brights! Fogs turn off when headlights are switched to brights but a lot of people like them to stay on with low or high beams.

[@paulleeson1218]

Good shout.

[@jclessard716]

Exactly that

[@tennesseehillyankee8376]

You nailed it.

[@deansapp4635]

Great call, Jeff

[@donmunro144]

Makes sense. I didn't give that a thought.

[@donniev8181]

Alright!! A classic South Main Auto mystery, Mrs O comes in clutch with the first major clue, lol!

[@tetedur377]

Eric O needs to watch his six...the Mrs may well take his job.

[@tatertots-n-soup]

That only happens to pansies

[@HueManna]

Nice flex by Mrs. O. 💪

[@electrickal1]

Here in Ireland we have an old saying, "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". This is a classic example of just that!

[@WXSEDY]

I think you might have inverted the logic here. That saying should be, "A little _stupidity_ is a dangerous thing." After all, _stupid hurts!_

[@brian2359]

Mrs. O is the real mechanic here! Woman needs a raise!

[@johngreene6783]

I love watching Eric troubleshoot these electrical issues. His step by step methodology is genius.

[@oceancon]

So true; I'm having an electrical issue with a hatch glass switch on my BMW 328i wagon and trying to replicate what he does. So far I'm not doing that well...

[@PaulLorenzini-ny2yw]

It's hard work and experience.

[@johngreene6783]

@@oceancon As he always says......power and ground LOL. Everything electrical needs power and ground. Fuses, circuit breakers, switches, bare wires etc are all part of troubleshooting electrical problems. Half the battle is having a wiring diagram. His methods are very simple in the way he singles out the circuit with the problem. From there he is able to find the issue whether it be a bad component, broken wire, etc.

[@w9awx1]

Absolutely. Like Eric says, if he can do it we can do it. We just have to put our minds to it.

[@PaulLorenzini-ny2yw]

@@w9awx1 follow the leader!

[@HH-pj2df]

"that's why we need ya. And a couple other reasons." 😂 Mrs.O is a special lady to put up with your humor.

[@stevegott]

I laughed way too hard at Compass owners not looking back to look at the Compass, they just walk away lol

[@SouthMainAuto]

Wouldn't you 😂

[@arnieb.6506]

If you walk away from your vehicle after you park it, and you don't look back. You've got the wrong vehicle.

[@2023TMc]

You forgot to add walking away with their head down.

[@jonlambert1879]

when eric o walks away from his truck he mudders tundra time

[@mazzg1966]

Damn....was going to say the same thing! But, did you notice the look on Eric's face after he said it and kinda looked down and thought, Oh well too late already said it out loud....ha ha ha that was classic....thanks for the great video!!!

[@jameshampton3969]

It's called "data driven diagnostics", and it's the reason why I watch your channel.

[@jerryking2418]

This will remain a mystery of the universe. However, Ivan would be proud. Like your Wilbert's sweater.

[@DAKOTANSHELBY]

Wilbert's - Not a sponsor

[@douglasphillips1203]

Great on Mrs O for spotting this! This is the kind of thing that would drive you nuts forever!

[@curtgomes]

Your patience repairing these junkers is commendable. Straightening out other people's hack jobs can be very frustrating.

[@jeffreygoss8109]

I am not brave or smart enough to follow up hackers so I’d pass. Maybe keep the wrench

[@sreginkc]

The wad of Harbor Freight electrical tape is usually a good place to start troubleshooting any electrical issues. Your documentation of your actual troubleshooting and sorting out the mess is greatly appreciated. And thanks to Mrs. O too!

[@kennethandrysiak4130]

Mrs. O is a keeper! Keeps Eric fed with delicious home cooking… runs the business side of MSA… and observes. Yep, a keeper!

[@chillybrit2334]

"The blind look away unpluggy" - fantastic description. I do the same sometimes at work, weirdly going purely by touch rather than touch and seeing makes it far easier to unplug some connectors. Glad it's not just me :D

[@mattbrown5511]

I was going to comment on the fog lights turn off if you go from low beam to high beam. However, another gentleman already put it out there. Great diagnosis as always Mr. O.

[@JOHNSUE28]

Eric you are so Pragmatic. After 48 years of turning wrenches and Diagnostics. Your Case studies keep me thinking. Thank You, Sir!

[@woolval52]

"The blind look-away unpluggy" at 17:40. These professional secrets are the best parts of your videos! You are a master of the mechanics language.

[@jamesrdorn]

Mrs. O saves the day! What would you do without her?

[@SouthMainAuto]

I don't know 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@caseypowell9030]

Mrs o she's observant

[@caseypowell9030]

Mabey the guy got confused

[@kenj.8897]

First off you have to make your own lunch ​@@SouthMainAuto

[@billupstateny9151]

@eric. Better hope you never need to find out 💡

[@flatdaddio]

Great video Mr. O. You know what they say, "If you don't look back at your car after you park it, you bought the wrong car!!"

[@johnmurphy6366]

Mr O,whoever wired this,made a latching relay,without realizing it!Great catch by the big boss,Mrs O!

[@markgrygar415]

Mr O says "If I can do it, you can do it" I say, "I can do it if Mr O has already done it in a video." 😅 Seriously, Mr. O's videos on Jeep Liberties and Compas have helped me conquer most of the demons in my '03 Jeep Liberty Renegade Every video i watch i learn something. Thanks Mr. O and special thanks to the ever observant and effervescent Mrs. O for blessing Mr. O's videos with her presence.

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

I think the Tipm has a wire or circuit fused or that is making contact while driving that is causing them to stay on as well as randomly turn themselves on or even some green crusties causing them to come on somthing is forcing the circuit to turn on and stay on Eric O 10:19 @South Main Auto Repair LLC

[@goldwingconepatterns2565]

I think the bypass to keep the fog lights on while using high beams is likely. On some vehicles that is done by removing a relay and putting in a jump wire at the appropriate guage is the way to change that (honda goldwings provide that option). Wow....good find. Thanks Mrs. O.

[@Clough42]

If you connect the control and output wires, the relay will power its own coil and will latch on once you turn it on. When you pull out and replace the relay, it releases the latch. Don't know what they thought they were doing, but that's the result.

[@CuriousB58]

That’s it! A mechanical SCR.

[@unimportant5122]

It also saved the module. It only needed to supply current briefly until the relay took over. If they had just crossed the wires and had the module power the lights directly overcurrent would've damaged it. (unless it has overcurrent protection on it's outputs but it's a jeep so...)

[@NoPlanProjects]

Can you help me understand exactly how this happens? So the load and control sides of relays aren't isolated from each other?

[@Clough42]

@NoPlanProjects they should be, but someone connected the wires.

[@brnmcc01]

@@unimportant5122 Yup, but a typical relay has a switching time of about 1 millisecond, so that's not enough time for things to get toasty. On the other hand, if that Jeep had a short in one of the fog lights, the 37 amps that can go thru that always hot fuse will burn something out. I really doubt the TIPM control relay will handle 37 amps for very long

[@mrdfoutz]

Dr. O with yet another exceptional diagnosis and successful surgery. With assistance from the lovely and talented Mrs. O! I know one of the other reasons you keep her around is her accuracy with those long-range hole punchers! 🎯 Which brings up another point: We want more After Hours target challenges!

[@chrisliberty1773]

One of-if not the best diag tech on the interwebs...great stuff!

[@keithnsearle7393]

SMA saves the day again. Another good fix. You should be a multi-millionaire by now with all these fixes that no one else can do.

[@ronaldbrosius7488]

Like i said a thousand times, it's hard to find a good mechanic. You're customers have it Great with SMA working on their vehicles!! Great job!!

[@puremayhemFTW]

Incredible diagnostician

[@davidmcclain5180]

That was a great find and I believe Jeff who commented below is probably right about why they wired it that way.

[@larryjackson8675]

Mrs. O, the greatest mechanic ever

[@devicemechanix9049]

I’ve always hated Chrysler/fiat/daimler/Cerberus products. Absolute trash. Love the content, EO

[@MrPoppyDuck]

As long as people keep driving Jeeps Mr O will be in business. 😊

[@calholli]

To be fair.. it's not even a real jeep.. They just slapped the jeep badge on something else

[@slalomking]

He said Chrysler and GM has paid off his shop and will put his kids through college!!!

[@freetolook3727]

Another proud American classic! 😂😂😂

[@8avexp]

The keys on my '88 Jeep Cherokee still said American Motors.:)

[@mattbrown5511]

You forgot Chevy. lol

[@danwaterloo3549]

You are very talented. And it also helps to have a Mrs. O around too! As a team, you're the best!

[@JoseMartinez-tc9pr]

Mrs. O fixes another car...with the mighty hand of Eric. What a great team.

[@cornbreadburgess1950]

Thanks for sharing brother 😁🙏,,the other guy wanted to make all the wires hot .

[@johnthiel7422]

Mrs O needs a raise!

[@petermccoll469]

Great diagnoses. Who ever did this really had no clue about the damage he could cause by back feeding the control side. They were lucky.

[@frankm8533]

I do love when Eric finds 'The other shop' mystery hack

[@Chris-jy3dm]

Because you are methodical Erick other shops put to much pressure on timelines keep up the fight Erik. Love to all the family 👍🇬🇧

[@Guust_Flater]

Maybe your lucky day Eric, that you didn't fry the TIPM when you did the test the foglights without the relay. Looks like the control wire AND the power wire both were feeding the foglights, sharing the current draw, so nothing happened or blew up. But without the relay, now the TIPM must provide all the power to the foglights. With a bit of bad luck, the TIPM could have let the smoke out. 😂 Good video as always!👍

[@Slicerwizard]

Yep, the relay would've been providing most of the current. Its contacts have a lower voltage drop than the electronics in the TIPM. Pulling the relay immediately started cooking the TIPM. Left in that state long enough, the TIPM would've let out the magic smoke.

[@brnmcc01]

@@Slicerwizard Yup, typical pair of fog lights run about 9 amps +/1 assuming a 55watt bulb. On the other hand, what if there was a short in the wiring going to the fog lights themselves, that constant hot fuse supplying the relay is a big 37 amps. The TIPM would let out a LOT of smoke before that fuse ever blew.

[@YouSpamTard]

Good call. Thanks for the clue. I was stuck. He did say the relay was locking and that's what was hard for me to figure out for me why. Once I figured that out, then I also noticed the control was power to the fog lights without the relay. Very interesting stuff. What I don't know is why out of all the people involved, no one but Mrs. O notice the fog lights on all the time. I mean whoever hooked it up like that should have noticed at least???? Sheesh.

[@vincesacca5025]

I've been watching you for some time now. You're one of the best mechanics I've ever seen. If I lived around you, I know you would be getting my car repairs. Goodbye for now my friend.

[@Luisgarcia-uz5uk]

That’s why you’re the man Mr O.

[@ronaldsinclair6837]

We don't know why but we know who can fix it. Thanks Eric O.

[@rick_.]

Always fun following along as figure out who-dunnit trying to guess what the problem will turn out to be!

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

If not for Mrs. O. keen eyes, you might have missed the problem. Sharp mind understanding rapidly that there were crossed wires. Great job, Eric!

[@newjerseybill3521]

This reminds me a little of a repair Ivan di a while ago on a BMW. Very strange ignition system failure, but only when it got really hot under the hood, like a long climb up a hill. Turned out that vintage BMW used the common square "ice cube" relays. However, in BMW,s wisdom, they didn't follow the somewhat industry standard pinout. Someone swapped the ignition relay with a standard relay which then fed the PCM signal straight to the coils. When the wiring got hot, resistance when up voltage decreased, and the ignition dropped out. This may not be 100% spot on, but the cause/result is spot on, wrong relay engine stall when hot.

[@slvr951]

Mrs. O for the win!

[@JonnyR90]

Thanks for taking the time to make educational videos brotha! Definitely teaches us young buck mechanics like myself something new every time 💪🏼💪🏼

[@mariosaccoccio1688]

I love "Swap-tronics" as a diagnostic tool. I have two, 2005 caravans/T&C and it saves me a ton of work swapping parts vs testing powers & grounds.

[@thomasperina2990]

Great job as always even if this vehicle is junk.

[@timothycooney986]

I concur with others who've commented that Vanessa is the true hero of this repair.

[@Texas-t-shirts]

The 'ol touch wires together till it works routine... probably got it from the movies~ Adolescents.

[@WalterStrait]

That the problem, Eric, he took your words to heart and found out that you could do it, and he couldn’t have a good day

[@blane-cox]

I was glad to hear you were going to clean up the tangles even though technically, it was now repaired. It reminds me of eating soup with shaky hands and wiping up the drops immediately instead of finishing the meal before clean up. Your momma trained you well. :)

[@Mtltrm]

The technician at the other shop saw that there were three wires all the same color and instead of checking an actual wiring diagram, they spliced all the same colored wires together... Monumental mistake, of course Chrysler in their infinite wisdom, should have made the tracer of one of the three wires a different color IMHO Great diagnosis Eric and once again you saved the day 😉👍

[@johnmeyer6537]

my guess is they tried to fix not knowing the ground was not installed. then installed the ground while trying to fix something else on one of the other relays. now they have a latching relay. most of the current is going thru 25 amp fuse as long as relay is installed. would probably burn up tipm if relay were to be removed . if I can do it you can do it. not always. great video

[@charlestredway8253]

That was a great adventure! They make movies with all of the twists and turns that you experienced. At the end, you win again!

[@austinpfoster]

Mrs. O saves the day!!!

[@davidbaldwin2729]

that was the nicest outro Mr O, thank you we are very glad to be here with you as well.

[@brianhume4743]

A fire waiting to happen. Just saying from North of Newcastle 🇬🇧 😉

[@Jaync5894-ge1em]

Great video once again. You make it look so easy. So many skills. Because of you I decided to go buy a T10 and a smoke machine, noid lights and a fuel pressure tester to diagnose my truck. Let the fun begin. Thanks for all of your great informative videos.

[@mattmanyam]

Hot-wire to keep the fogs on with the high-beams? Although i also believe could have been an erroneous repair from a fender bender, just as likely.

[@peterhodgkins6985]

That'd be my guess...

[@madmeatlogger]

Exactly my guess... Hack to use Beams and Fogs... Nice way to melt the TIPM... Neat.

[@Outy850]

That was my first thought as well.

[@randycarpenter2914]

You get what I call the mystery meat of fixes. You open the hood and say yep it's a car engine. What's the meat we don't know and are afraid to ask. Miracle of Mr Eric O.

[@ronallen6578]

Eric, You don't need customers because you keep other shops going. Double your rates as a "trouble shooter" and go on. Looks like the old saying of "when in doubt, cut it out applied". Good fix. 😂😂

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Working without relay oh the simple mistake of Crossing the wires because the colors are all similar that makes sense the relay isn't even needed with that wiring Job to funny Eric O nice Find didn't even come to mind till I seen the fog lights on without the relay plugged in 11:00 😂 @South Main Auto Repair LLC

[@johnthiel7422]

These are always fun to watch. Good entertainment... as usual!

[@andygirke846]

Eric, I don't fix cars for a living, that's why I watch this channel. I fix Houses. I Feel your pain . If your going to fix something, Do it right or leave it alone!

[@JohnDoesGarage]

Be happy you can't figure out why they did what they did, because if you could, it means you can think like they do.

[@AntonioClaudioMichael]

Got to love intermittent issue that only show up when the customer has the vehicle its like the vehicle is getting revenge for it being sent to a mechanic I swear vehicles have souls and minds of there own especially when it's hard to duplicate or mechanic can't get the vehicle to show the issue at all but customer see's it immediately after getting it from the mechanic Eric O 0:30 @South Main Auto Repair LLC

[@klwthe3rd]

64 comments in the first 1 minutes. SMA is super popular still after 10+ years.

[@larryreagan6936]

Looks like the remnants of a rebuilt wreck with some cut up wiring during the accident.. Great video as always!

[@willmahl5841]

He wanted the high beams and fogs to be on at the same time

[@knauregriffiths7666]

Good job Mrs. O!

[@vicferrarisgarage]

Always loop your wires to keep relays on! 😂 😊

[@jimskinner2777]

Always knowledgeable and entertaining. Thanks Mr. and Mrs. O

[@richardthomas1743]

I can draw a battery! Hello Eric!!

[@David-nv9tn]

Eric , Almost fell off my work stool . Hilarious! " Must be what you do if you drive a compass , just turn around and walk away " made my day . I'm still laughing. Thanks

[@Bob-xc2us]

A Jeep (Stelantis, Chrysler product) with an electrical problem! Gee. I've never heard of that happening before.

[@repete2362]

self inflicted this time

[@throttlebottle5906]

@@repete2362 "but wait, there's more!" guaranteed it has a dozen other gremlins waiting to hatch and breeding as we view. 🤣

[@windward2818]

The fog light relay contacts power feed is hot at all times. The rogue jumper as installed will essentially make a latching relay function which will never turn off until the relay is removed or the battery disconnected or discharge (the relay coil will drop out at perhaps 6 VDC). When the relay coil control is energized (fog lights on) it will activate the relay contacts, which will feed power back to the coil side keeping the relay on until you reset the relay by removing power to it. This latching relay configuration is very popular in control side (low voltage 12 VDC powered) industrial control panels when turning the panel ON by pressing the big GREEN round power on push button. To turn the machine off you have to open the control side power supply feed, using the big RED power off push button, the emergency stop, or interrupt the power by way of a safety interlock switch(s) (e.g. open door detect). When on the relay should get warm because the coil is energized and dissipating power (approximately 3 Watts, which includes coil power and the output contact resistance power), but not as hot as what is shown in the video. This means the relay is getting hot from another heat source? Perhaps, loose fitting mating contacts. So the original repair was an attempt to repair the relay terminals in the plastic power junction block because the customer complaint was the fog light would not work properly? As a last resort (and poor thinking) why not just bypass the contacts and the relay with a jumper. So, we should ask ourselves are the relay contacts making good connection (sprung tangs?) are they properly locked in place (can't get pushed back?), why did someone use silicone? Do we need to inspect the relay mating contacts in the power block? When the relay was removed how is it that the TIPM could supply the needed current to activate the fog lights? The only answer I would have is the small stalk switch was supplying full current to the fog lights but not enough to blow the stalk switch fuse (10 Amp?). Meaning for the fog light control circuit the TIPM is just a pass through? Does this make sense?

[@adwenb]

My 2006 Chevrolet Corvette would do that to me. Left with dealer for 4 days, NTF. Mentioned this problem to neighbor across the street. Next day, he leaves for work at 5am. Talked to me later that day and asked me if I left the headlights on for a reason. Said nope, pulled the relay at night for the next week with no problem. Swapped with another relay in the box and trouble stayed gone. Went to local NAPA, not a sponsor, Replaced the HL relay trouble never came back.

[@toolsarecool]

Not a sponsor 🤣😂 👏

[@suttoncoldfield9318]

One wintertime, heard my starter was starting to turn over slow, so thought was time for a new battery. Drove to work. Later that day, heavy snow started falling and laying. Looking out the window at the pretty scene in the car parking area, saw my rear window was completely clear, everybody else's windows were covered in snow. HRW relay was sticking on.

[@windward2818]

This is the classic case of welding relay contacts, meaning they will not open if hot after the control coil is deenergized (lights turned off). To weld on a relatively high resistance contact many times you have to get it hot enough (hence, why it is called welding contacts). So to recreate the problem the dealer technician would have to turn the lights on and let them stay on until they weld perhaps 3 minutes. If you cycle the lights quickly the contacts may not get hot enough to weld and will open as normal. For troubleshooting relay circuits different vendors offer relay extensions so you can get to the signals (e.g. Lisle 56810 Relay Test Jumper Kit). If the dealer tech had added a test extension they could measure the voltage drop across the contacts when on, which would be very high for bad contacts. The quickest way to make the repair, if you suspect welding contacts, is to use a thermal camera to measure the heat (you can actually thermally see through the plastic housing) during prolonged operation of the original relay (10 minutes?), replace original relay with a new one reactivate and take the same measurement again after the same on time. You would find that new relay had a significant reduction in the heat signature and magnitude. Conclusion, bad relay output contacts.

[@adwenb]

@ an under $10 relay is better peace of mind than coming out to go to work and have a dead battery.

[@KarateSensei71]

Every video should have the lovely Mrs. O but keeping us guessing keeps us coming back.

[@joecoyne5660]

Bumper priming instructions clue. Body shop electrical repair after replacing bumper cover.

[@exmotorsports]

I think someone attempted a headlight high beam no fog light bypass so the fog lights would remain on during the low beam to high beam switch. Only thing they've succeeded on, was a botched up mystery mess.! 😂 Great diag work as usual.. Eric O 💪😎👍

[@jonh901271]

Jeep Compass is a mechanic's dream car.

[@LTVoyager]

Good thing Eric and Mrs. O are dream mechanics.

[@JohnAsang]

Bought my first part from Wilburts!! Now I just need a sweatshirt!! My guess is the body shop?? Everyone else after that, but before you, had not a clue what they were doing!!

[@DIYDaveOK]

Total wild guess, probably wrong: Maybe some prior fender/light damage that required rework on that connector? Might explain the primer instructions you found and all the messed up stuff in the connector. May have been unintentionally intentional - rewired wrong. Great as always, Eric.

[@mattmanyam]

I like your "incorrect rework" guess. Another thought I had was someone was trying to keep the fogs on with the high-beams?

[@SouthMainAuto]

Yeah I have a pretty good theory I think. I might make a short video giving you guys my final thoughts on it. Not sure yet.

[@Qballl]

​@SouthMainAuto please do I'm lost on how that gets messed up. Even if you were playing cut the wire match the color you still couldn't get it wrong

[@riaanlouw1874]

Your theory seems very plausible (more so than mine). I wanted to say, I know that US cars don't have DRL's, maybe he wanted the fog lights to be DRL's ? (DRL = Daytime Running Lights). Don't know if one can program some lights in the setup of the car, for DRL working.

[@mattmanyam]

@riaanlouw1874 DRLs are not /required/ in the US, but many cars have them, or can select to enable them.

[@willsmith6800]

Once again, well done Eric! Maybe on jobs like this, your closing should be "If you can do it, I can undo it"! Hope the owner didnt pay for shoddy work like that. Always entertaining!

[@JTIZZO]

It was "modified" to have fog lights and high beams (and low beams) on at the same time. I think the kids call it the "all 6 mod"

[@rick_.]

Yep, think you are correct. Hacked together with no real understanding of how the electrical system works.

[@RK-kn1ud]

AKA "Bambi Mode"

[@jameshampton3969]

A.K.A. the blind oncoming traffic mode.

[@simonilett998]

Nah, this mod would only keep the fog lights on when switched to high beam. High/low beam were still separate and could be switched independent of each other.

[@xanderlander8989]

Sometimes the best tool is your finger tips. I've also had good luck finding power draws by looking at relays and fuses with a thermal camera.

[@theomurphyross8338]

Big fat guess on why. Also the clue about primer instructions for the bumper. Wiring harness was damaged from what damaged the old bumper. Panel shop "fixed" the wiring while there were there. At least that's my speculations Good work 👍

[@johnjacobs4625]

This guy must have really wanted his car in an SMA video! 😂

[@MikeSTGL]

Mrs. O with the save and diagnosis !!!

[@cypeman8037]

I don't recall Mrs. O being in on the diagnosis.

[@timb1179]

Love the channel, and I am not far from you in Waverly NY, so I would definitely use you if I need a good mechanic. Also, you clearly owe the Misses a full night on the town for this one, she did the heavy lifting on the diagnostics on this one. 🤣

[@justsumguy2u]

Someone was meddling in things they ought not be meddling in

[@jkidd2007]

I'm going to give you a brief replay of my 5 year parasitic draw for a 2012 Jeep Liberty, 130,000 miles. Owned since it was new. Lifetime warranty from Chrysler and yet I've spent over $2,000 in about labor plus 4 batteries (multiple deep discharges will kill the battery). Many free parts thrown at this and the final fix was the ABS controller. This also demonstrated itself with check engine plus various codes, but never related to the battery draw. The issue finally got worse this summer when the problem finally degraded to disable all dash instruments except fuel guage. No A/C, no radio, no GPS, all commanded actions like wipers coming on with headlights, doors locking after 8 mph, remote start. It has been fixed for 3 months now.

[@terrynations2243]

I have no idea why it was wired that way, but my question is how did removing the relay turn the lights off when it was clearly bypassed? I also am surprised the relay driver held up to the load it was carrying, props to who ever made that!

[@Tevildo]

This is a traditional self-keeping relay circuit, that you'd have seen in something designed 100 years ago. Refer to the diagram at 13:30 for pin numbers - we start with the relay off. 1. Power is applied to the coil via pin A28. The relay closes. 2. Current now flows from pin A30 via the relay contacts to pin A29 (the fog light output). 3. Power is removed from pin A28. 4. Because we have the connection from pin A29 to pin A28, power is still supplied to the coil via pin A29, and the relay stays on. 5. In a "normal" self-keeping circuit, the relay would be switched off by opening the connection between A28 and A29 - there would be a normally-open "Start" button between A30 and A28, and a normally-closed "Stop" button between A29 and A28. When the "Stop" button is pressed, power is removed from A28, and the relay opens. 6. However, as we don't have a "Stop" button here, the relay will stay on until either the power is removed from A30 (when the battery goes dead) or the relay is physically removed from the socket.

[@terrynations2243]

@ ok yeah you’re right I should have thought about it a bit more, I was half asleep when I commented my brain was fried but you have showed me my oversight on this and I thank you

[@andrewsnow7386]

I suspect you figured it out already, but for anyone else reading ... The driver circuit for the relay (in the TIPM) wasn't fully powering the lights -- at least not until Eric ran it without the relay installed. The relay was still in the circuit, and still closing, so most of the power for the lights was likely flowing through the relay (thus why it got so hot). That said, the transient current through the TIPM might have been rather high as it powered the lights for the few milliseconds it took the relay to close.

[@Paul1958R]

@@Tevildo Thank you for this. I think what confused me was when Eric initially said the relay input and output wires had be wired 'backwards' when in fact the relay input and output wires were _connected together_ (as he later discovered).

[@roynewling6599]

Great to have you back

[@kellyherald1390]

The way that the splice was made it made the relay into a latching circuit. The only way to turn it off is to drop the power source or pull the relay and plug it back in. Before you pulled the relay I was thinking that was the behavior I was seeing. Great find.

[@ghall05]

I’m still not quite understanding how it made it a latching circuit. Doesn’t the tipm cut power on the control side (which was also powering the fogs) when the key is off? Why was the control side still energized by the tipm with the key off? (And also with the fog switch off) I’m confused 😂

[@ghall05]

Wait I get it now. The control side is power side switched and with the relay contacts closed it was powering itself from the load side fuse! Good stuff!

[@kellyherald1390]

@@ghall05 That's exactly what happened.

[@rickjames9477]

Mechanics like the one who screwed the pooch on the wiring are exactly why I work on my own Toyota and Honda.