Space Marine Detachment Review - Vanguard Spearhead

[@catherinedalzell3183]

I ran Black Templars with this detachment at a local tournament and infiltrated 20 crusaders with Helbrecht and the Castellan. It was definitely something my opponents had to deal with.

[@dementiamaster12]

The stealth crusade

[@Xander101]

TOTALLY agree with the use of spectrus kill team utilising the execute and redeploy enhancement. I'm trying the detachment tomorrow with my deathwatch using a spectrus KT + phobos librarian, along with a full 10 DW terminator block + termi librarian using blade driven deep.

[@Gamle]

Also what I am considering with my deathwatch :)

[@Xander101]

@Gamle Since writing this, I'm excited about an alternative to the terminator 10 man infiltrator block. Now more primaris leaders can attach to the proteus kill team, I'd be tempted to run the watch commander and an Apothecary leading a proteus kill team. That's an infiltrating unit with the ability to shoot and charge after advancing or falling back. And the Apothecary can be bringing terminators back on the field!

[@johnkevill470]

Lieutenant with 6 bladeguard. Costs less than half the deathwing knights/terminators, doesn’t normally deep strike, 29 attacks s5 ap2 d2 waiting in the forward ruin for threat and board control, for cheap so you aren’t coinflipping the game

[@GaryP336]

Or a judiciar? Makes it kinda not chargeable ish too

[@scleless1342]

❤Dont care what you say but Calgar with his 2x Victrix Guard, with Apothecary Bio and 6x Aggressors or 6x Bladeguard is superior to any other use of blade driven deep. Having THAT many twin linked power fists etc.. is just insane.

[@Mandalor25]

Hey there, six Eradicators with Apothecary Biologis and Marneus Calgar is something we saw in tournaments before. Thats pretty good anti tank and protected from close combat by Calgar. Also Captain Lysander and 10X assault terminators plus an ancient in Terminatorarmor could be good with the blade driven deep enhancement. That -1 to damage is huge and will soak up a lot of damage. I do think the dark angels knights are probably the strongest tho. Better damage and better sustain than anything i mentioned. Love the content

[@Jon-e3j]

Stumbled upon u chaps an VANGUARD TACTICS get 💯 breaking down factions an detachments

[@rickdriver0]

Definitely my favourite detachment 🤘🏻

[@isaacgraff8288]

I know its fairly standard but Gravis Captain with aggressors and Blade Driven Deep

[@HELWINTER333]

Plethora

[@pPhantoMq]

I believe you're wrong about the way benefit of cover works (around 15 minutes). A unit can't benefit from cover further than a 3+ save. So, if something has AP -1 and you're in cover with a 2+ save, well that's a 3+ save anyway. AoC DOES affect AP directly though, so that still works but if the incoming attack has -2 AP, you're stuck with a 3+ save still (right?).

[@th0rg0d]

Yes

[@davey_lad_3978]

Logan grimnar, wolf guard battle leader (lethal hits) 10 wolf guard termies.

[@TheBroGamer14082]

how can one properly use phob captain with lone op?

[@michaelcrawford1233]

Whats up...names Kraven...but you can call me K."

[@TyrArchibal]

1st

[@CPyJIb]

Stealth and Detachment rule doesn't work well together. What I see is Ultramarines for Calgar and Uriel with Terminator/Gravis units, coz making them harder to hit outside 12" with already good defensive profiles is just great. Infiltrator one big tough unit and Deep Strike other big unit with Uriel, for example Centurions is a huge pressure.

[@GaryP336]

They do work together. But only if the enemy has a plus one to hit. But they do stack, they just cap out at minus one with nothing else going on

[@CPyJIb]

@@GaryP336 in other words in most cases they don't work well together.

[@GaryP336]

@@CPyJIb I mean. There is alot of plus one to hit about *shrug*

[@CPyJIb]

@@GaryP336 are there ? Incursor and Techmarine are major ones, terminators if Oath target. Haven't seen any Incursors since 9th, have seen Techmarines, but if anything buffed with Techmarine targets my Phobos units I am totally ok with it. Hard to believe that the opponent will target your Phobos infantry with Oath. TAU has none, Grey Knights has none. I bet other factions are also poor on +1 to hit.

[@GaryP336]

@@CPyJIb I mean mirror match. Vanguard. Techmarines will be huge. Votaan exist and that's thier whole schtich

[@davidsmyth447]

Please stop saying plethora

[@scottgifford7391]

Plethora.

[@Jon-e3j]

🤣🤣🤣

[@MaestroSc2]

Devastator Centurions with LasCannons. Pop tanks, send them to reserve for 1 cp. Pop up on another board edge on your turn to pop another tank, repeat.

[@Xander101]

I like the idea of the gravis captain using the ghost cloak. His ability to use the strat that gives precision to melee weapons for free may catch some players off guard, otherwise he just camps an objective

[@swabilius]

I was under the impression that a 2+save that gets hit by a -1 AP in cover is a 3+ save not 2+ cover doesn't grant better than a 3+ save right?

[@Aurius.Strange]

@@swabilius nope the cover abilities just states that you cannot improve your save better than 3+. So the only unluckiest scenario is getting an ap 0 shot on a 3+, who will stay 3+. If you are 4+ and get hit by ap 0 you get a 3+ save.

[@DinendalPaul]

@@swabilius The rules: "Each time a ranged attack is allocated to a model that has the Benefit of Cover, add 1 to the saving throw made for that attack (excluding invulnerable saving throws). Models with a Save characteristic of 3+ or better cannot have the Benefit of Cover against attacks with an Armour Penetration characteristic of 0." They don't assert that the benefit of cover doesn't work against attacks with -1 AP, it just doesn't work with 3+ save or better against attacks with 0 AP.

[@Johnnymarzo]

also the ghost cloak on the talonmaster from the Dark Angels is SICK

[@danrighthere85]

So sad that ist gone by now😢

[@Gamle]

Thats a sneaky trick with Calculated Feint ! Just moving your squad to 12" away. This will force him to continue the charge and he cannot redirect, since your unit is still within charge range.

[@leostarrs-cunningham8576]

Scout says you must end >9" away from an enemy btw

[@yulbrenner]

I’m thinking of a max unit of Bladeguard with a Cap w/blade up in the grill on Turn 1.

[@lukelloyd8976]

For Blade Driven Deep, got to be Calgar, 6 Aggressors, and a Biologis... ...or Belial, a Deathwing Command Squad, and a Strikemaster?

[@jimmygott]

I love this detachment I just like the big brain plays you can make. Opp goes for a charge you use the strat to make the charge harder, infiltrating slow & powerful units to get them in closer to cause havoc, being able to re-deepstrike a unit, precision to kill characters. Just suits me very well, I will say the passives the detachment has are quite nice too but a lot of the time I'm within 12" so it never really comes up (as a Deathwing Knight kinda player) and sometimes I sorta wish there was a way to reduce the radius of the detachment passive with a strategem make it 12">6" would be cool.

[@Jon-e3j]

Draigo can deepstrike with paladins an then charge with +3" so needs to roll 6" charge an his titan sword has--4ap! total Carnage!!!

[@stu_gibson]

I do like the (still fluffy) idea of a Phobos Lieutenant with the move-shoot-move enhancement attached to a unit of Elimimators. It means the squad Sergeant can take one of the fancier guns and his unit still gets to move after shooting. That and the Lieutenant giving their guns Lethal Hits is always handy.

[@aidancarver9368]

I really liked this idea too, it was something I wanted to build around. However, the Phobos Lieutenant cannot be leading eliminators. Sad

[@Xander101]

To me, giving the phobos LT the move shoot move enhancement would feel a bit redundant as he has his own, if slightly worse, version on his sheet already.

[@stu_gibson]

​@@Xander101Ah so he does, I think a Phobos Librarian would be a better choice then.

[@stu_gibson]

​@@aidancarver9368Phobos Librarian will have to do then 😅 At least he can stop the Eliminators being shot back at all outside of 12".

[@animaltown1234]

How I’m using the infiltrator war gear is putting it with my eradicators to get past their short range and slow movement

[@TheAcidDrip]

Would help if you included chapters in your video reviews. Auspex Tactics does this and basically it's the reason he gets my like/subscribe. I can jump to what I want and move on when I want. Thanks.

[@peters6345]

I really like strike from the shadows on suppressors. Really helps them do work I didnt catch the the guerilla warfare on invictors or deadly prize happens in any command phase

[@TacDonut]

Obviously the best unit to use is a 10 man squad of Alpharius

[@seanscanlon2000]

Thanks guys this helps alot

[@joelhenry2527]

Decent overview - thanks guys!

[@anderbarongonzalez3356]

I'm slowly building my own chapter and curating a list with this detachment in mind. It's got a bit of everything, I like flexible lists. The core is a 5 terminator unit with a captain infiltrating, a big blob of 10 infiltrators with a phobos lieutenant with the Vect enhancement, lethal hits and move-shoot-move (with the possible addition of a phobos captain), a unit of eliminators, and a chonky 5 man gravis intercessor unit with the biologis and captain to occupy the midfield objective and become the keystone of the gunline. Beyond that, 5 sternguard holding the home objective, a ballistus for some long range anti-tank, and 10 assault intercessors with a librarian (4+ invul is juicy) to run up the flank and chainsaw anything in their path.

[@Fpsdood]

lol

[@Johnnymarzo]

the new FAQ that came out today kinda NUKED the phobos captain as well as any other sort of redeploy with infiltrators :c

[@leostarrs-cunningham8576]

Its not a FAQ as such, just for 1 comp. It was like this in the previous edition though.

[@HighlandPhoenix]

Not sure anything changed from previous rulings on redeploy…was always back into your deployment zone or reserves…

[@Fpsdood]

"kinda" and "nuked" dont go together.

[@GaryP336]

Captain in phobos really isnt auto include. As per faq his redeploy doesnt let the units use thier infiltrate abilities and doesnt really do anything beyond that. That and vanguard lists ive seen really arent spamming the phobos/scout units, just making the ones everyone takes anyway (some scouts and Infiltrators) better. But if some one leant into the phobos dreads i could see it

[@GrimBear89]

Does the stealth -1 hit stack with the -1 hit detachment rule?

[@Fpsdood]

they "stack" but you still cannot modify them beyond -1, but if they try to double up their buffs you still block their +1 or force them to shoot at base BS. still not bad.

[@GreenPaladin7]

Judicar with Blade Driven Deep attached to Vanguard Vets. Great unit to infiltrate and it will really zone out your opponent turn 1. Judicar has precision. I'm gonna play this with my Black Templars.

[@KokNoker]

Not valid. Only Vanguard Vets left in the codex are the jump pack variant. HOWEVER, Assault Intercessors give a conditional wound reroll, so a small adjustment to your plan gives you a similar unit with a way to fish for Devestating Wounds from the Judiciar.