Star Trek: USS Vengeance (Dreadnought Class) | Ship Breakdown

[@Spacedock]

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[@pimpinaintdeadho]

Thanks for all the great uploads. 👍

[@90lancaster]

There is perhaps a fully crewed Section 31 USS Dreadnought off fighting the Dominion on it's own that we never see. If you read the comment from her designer of what the unlisted parts do she's got even more crazy features. Like extensive small ship hangers in the saucer, and smaller ball drones that drop out of ports on either side of the saucer, she also has multi layer shields and supposedly Neutron Torpedoes and a Transwarp drive. (in the same sense as the USS excelsior) which in practical terms is likely just the warp factor enhancements they had in Picard's time. It was fun to point out that she's kinda backwards to a normal ship layout in some ways. She'd make one hell of a Hero ship for a miniseries though.

[@dracopendragon6829]

In your video the tech readout on the Vengeance says it's 1460 meters long, but whenever I look it up to find it specs, the length comes to 732 meters. That's kind of confusing, and I'm wondering which is the correct measurement.

[@dailyrider2975]

Yes lets hire a 300 year frozen popsicle who was born before warp tech, who wasn't a trained engineer, but very smart and have him tell us how to build ships. I'm sure Benjamin Franklin would be perfect person to ask to help build a space elevator.

[@Folker46590]

Talking about one of the worst Star Trek films? For shame.

[@ronin3381]

The best thing about this thing is the sound it makes while at warp. Say what you will about the newer films, but the sound design was excellent.

[@rorymcclernon4674]

Agreed, sound, music and cgi was great in the new films. Casting was good too. That's about it.

[@cyborghobo9717]

It probably was vibration of the hull of the Enterprise.

[@HwangInhoBooNam]

Dubstep, boy

[@CtrlOptDel]

@@HwangInhoBooNam When you’re casually superluminally distorting the continuum… and then the bass drops.

[@Helbore]

Except for the phasers. I hated how they made the phasers sound like generic pew-pew blasters. The warp sound effects are fantastic, though.

[@ethanthelungeminewizard]

Sure it goes against Federation ideals, but this ship could be used as the literal embodiment of speak softly and carry a big stick

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

exactly.

[@enisra_bowman]

no, Ships like the D or the E are way better designed for that, but the Vengance is a deliberately mean and intimidating looking. That Ship is the epitome of Gunboat diplomacy and there is nothing soft about that

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

@@enisra_bowman Enterprise E definitely better designed but the vengeance needs to be tweeked and it will be better than it was, just fill in that hole in the saucer and there you go.

[@ethanthelungeminewizard]

@@enisra_bowman the vengeance does not speak, it fits the stick role and allows the captain of the vessel to negotiate, just like Teddy Roosevelt did when negotiating with Panama, he remained calm but he did bring the US navy with him

[@Topher7527]

@@ethanthelungeminewizard indeed. the vengeance would have been cole's great white fleet wrapped in a single ship. he certainly seems like an admiral we-have-the-big-guns-negotiate-or-perish perry kind of guy.

[@FekLeyrTarg]

A few years ago, I read the Star Trek-novel "Dreadnought" by Diane Carey, released in 1986. It also features an Admiral building an overpowered warship (the USS Star Empire) to spark a war with the Klingons and the plot immediately reminded me on "Into Darkness".

[@arintatham7985]

"Dreadnought" and the follow up "Battlestations!" were two of my favorites. The 1st person perspective and the fact that is wasn't from the main cast of characters point of view. The battles were well thought out.

[@Wowflunky]

yup, nothing original gets made anymore... the star empire, also a very angular ship(hexagram or octogram designed hull?)... only difference was the SE had an OP hologram projector... that was it really...oh and a 3rd nacelle. Still love Piper's response to Brian to get him to lower the shields..."Lower those Fing shields or so help me i'll tell everyone about last summer!" Or the sequel book here she names her ship the Banana Republic and gets Scotty at the end to say "so which one of you bent my ship."

[@ghostofwolfmoonmani3877]

Abrams can only copy ideas so he probably used that book as a source

[@reliantncc1864]

I read that book way, way back in the day. As I recall it immediately got stolen by terrorists. Wonder if that was inspiration for the DS9 episode where the brand-new Defiant was stolen by Thomas Riker for the Maquis.

[@prestonroberts2941]

@@ghostofwolfmoonmani3877 - he pulled it out of the "mystery box."

[@MegaKnight2012]

My Trekkie siblings and I loved the design of this ship. It would create quite the arms race in the Trek-verse and it would be interesting to see what Klingons and Romulans made to match it. It would also have been interesting to see how it help up against Borg.

[@templarw20]

When Scottie first found the secret shipyard, my thought was "that looks a bit like Borg tech..."

[@CtrlOptDel]

@@templarw20 Makes sense, the Narada was upgraded with Borg tech (hence why it kinda looks like a Borg sphere torn open), so any debris from it would likely have been reverse-engineered by Section 31.

[@singletona082]

the romulans would have tried making the scimitar about a century sooner. THe klingons probably wouldn't go for an outright single Big Ship, but something a hell of a lot better than the beral's that would huntin pack formations.

[@Sephiroth144]

@@singletona082 Or just craptons of B'Rels. Wolf Packs work, especially when the commanders and crews are fine risking their lives for an "honorable death"

[@templarw20]

@@Sephiroth144 The fact that the space frame of the B'Rel was able to still be relevant after a century of technological advances kinda proves that whoever initially designed it was some kind of mad genius.

[@generalsmite7167]

I think it’s size is a bit much but I always liked the idea of a super powerful star fleet battle ship which is a result of star fleet ditching the rules

[@TheOmegaXicor]

so...the Sovereign?

[@ivorybooker8957]

So...a Defiant, then. ;)

[@generalsmite7167]

@@ivorybooker8957 The Defiant was a gun boat I'm talking battleship and also the purpose built warships of star fleet don't have the same feeling of pure marshal power of the Vengeance.

[@thanqualthehighseer]

the Vengeance is is twice the size, three times faster and roughly 8 to 10 times the firepower of the Enterprise which is almost exactly the same as the diffrence between the Galaxy class and the Constitution class

[@EdKolis]

"You expected an extra nacelle and a goofy looking deflector? No, not that dreadnought!"

[@tomastomasi975]

I'd say the automation used in the ship was the most impressive thing about it. Trek really isn't known for that kind of tech.

[@serinahighcomasi2248]

That and the combat drones. Trek needs more use of actual combat drones with its ships.

[@therealmrspock]

"A chimpanzee and two trainees could run it" it took Scotty what, 3 hours? to automate the 500ish crew starship lol

[@lordicarus8807]

Yeah, makes me wonder why it was meant to carry 6000 crew... If it's automated, isn't that a liability?

[@TheZamaron]

@@lordicarus8807 I think it's just meant to BE ABLE to carry that many if needed. Remember it's desighned for war, I'm guessing most of that crew would be sexurity or soldiers, the important thing is that they arn't needed, so if push comes to shove as long a Starfleet is willing to use the needed resources, these things could be mass produced and lie inn wait for a war to begin, pull back the main fleet and deply these things, soldiers are a lot easier to mass train then the qualifications of a typical Star Fleet officer, Sarfleet has to do technical and sSciency kind of shit, soldiers just need basic combat tactics, discipline, and how to point and shoot the gun. Thus soldiers or security could technically be more expendable.

[@lordicarus8807]

@@TheZamaron good point. Starfleet officers are definetely harder to train. Also, for war purposes, the crew capacity would be interesting for invasions of enemy planets, although I don't think Starfleet had that in mind

[@julius-stark]

As much as I didn't like Into Darkness, I will say, the sound effect of the Vengeance's engine as it comes up behind the Enterprise and opens fire is one of the cooler ship sound effects I've heard. It almost sounds like they recorded a huge industrial fan and sped it up.

[@kevsha6797]

I always really liked the addition of the armored doors that close and protect the deflector dish when it drops out of warp, that was a nice touch. It's been said plenty already but the sound design for the ship at warp was awesome (same goes for the sound design for these movies as a whole in my opinion)

[@bothellkenmore]

I somehow missed the doors both in the movie and any other media I may have watched about the ship.

[@kevsha6797]

@AppleMac not to say they haven't, but I've never remember seeing anyone mention them before this video.

[@kittenmittenkitten]

Say what you want about Abrams, he really knows how to make phaser and torpedo hits look like they *hurt.*

[@jacoblyman9441]

I think that's a blessing of CGI to be honest. Shooting with miniatures meant painting battle damage and scars on them, and it was hard to remove that paint to clean up the model back to its pre-damaged state. So we really only saw beat up miniatures in films like "Wrath of Khan" or "Generations" which both had a larger budget than the TV series, and a script reason to do-in a hero ship. Otherwise arbitrarily screaming "shield integrity at 5%" was cheaper for television and allowed space combat without ruining expensive miniatures. I love how miniatures feel tactile on screen and the artistry to make them, but the ability to show visceral damage is a real blessing of the CGI effects era.

[@themetalstickman]

@@jacoblyman9441 Finally, a fellow CGI appreciator! I'd go one further and say that a talented CG artist can make their on-screen creations just as tangible and weighty, especially in the realm of starship design. Lighting is king, IMO

[@kuribayashi84]

Given the obvious parallels with the real-life Battleship HMS Dreadnought, I always felt that "Dreadnought" would have been a better name for this ship than "Vengeance".

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

I do think there is a prototype of this class called the dreadnought, but the vengeance is the 2nd of the class and the finished product if they are following ship name protocol.

[@MonkeyJedi99]

We all know the two best ship names are Warspite (real world) and Thunderchild (fiction).

[@TheMule47]

i think they missed an opportunity not calling it the USS Wrath. so when Benedict Cumberbatch took it over int he movie, it would be the Wrath of Khan. that said, one name that i could see Starfleet giving it that was both mean and scary and also fits into the Starfleet ethos is naming it after the HMS Terror, which while built as a warship was later refit into a ship of exploration of arctic seas. She was lost on the ill-fated Franklin Expedition to find the fabled Northwest Passage through modern day Canada.

[@darwinxavier3516]

@@GamerX-lc9ht Nah, much more likely that JarJar Abrams doesn't know that the class of a ship is named after the first of its kind. Same way the "Mega"(LOL) class star destroyer in TLJ should've been a Supremacy class. So it should've been either a Vengeance class, or called the USS Dreadnought.

[@Tank50us]

@@darwinxavier3516 There have been cases where the first in the class wasn't the first completed. If my memory serves, the USS Texas was second in the class (New York-Class), but the first of the two completed. So it's entirely possible that USS Dreadnought was 'laid down' first, but USS Vengeance was completed first.

[@thestanleys3657]

I do wonder what Marcus's plan was. He seemed to think with just one he could lead Starfleet to victory against the Klingons and as impressive as this class was you'd still need at least a dozen of them

[@Shatteredworld]

Probably a technology demonstration platform. The Vengeance would be the flagship which employs all of the features, but the technology would be trickled down into cheaper more role focused platforms. the better warp capability could be used on all ships, but then those big honking torpedo launchers would probably only be used on the bigger vessels that could supply the power and take the weapon size. the armor could be useful on vanguard role ships, and the automation feature set would extremely valuable on smaller scout/science vessels.

[@CtrlOptDel]

@@Shatteredworld I always got the impression that the level of automation was meant to imply it had an M-5 computer aboard, meaning it would’ve become very dangerous had it not been destroyed almost immediately after launch…

[@Helbore]

Nothing about his plan makes any sense. He's concerned that there will be a war with the Klingons and Starfleet is woefully unprepared. So he builds a single new ship in secret, then sends their next-best ship to Qo'nos, hoping they'll trigger a war by bombing the planet. So...he loses the Enterprise because it would be trapped with no warp drive in hostile territory and only had a single warship ready to deal with the Klingon response. He's worried they cannot win a war, so goes out of his way to start a war they cannot win. The guy was an idiot!

[@cmdraftbrn]

the same plan every fool follows. peace through strength.

[@dracula3811]

@@cmdraftbrn you can't have peace without strength.

[@p4inmaker]

I love how they tried to fix many of the federation ship design flaws while still adhering to their basic layout. Shielded deflector, minimal and beefy neck, pylons and nacelles that are protected by the saucer section in attack posture, etc. Someone actually put thought into this design.

[@Daginni1]

When invading the space of Klingons who love their many versions of "cloaking", it is imperative that you do not have easily ambushed supply lines. You need to carry everything you need for a full campaign with you. That is what I believe the logic of this massive ship was. A fleet to accompany it, and it keeping that fleet supplied, you are basically unstoppable as you move straight to their homeworlds and turn them into smoldering rubble. Let the Klingons cloak and dagger. Their 'daggers' are useless against a ship such as this.

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

Interesting thought I believe you are right now that I think on it.

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

This ships hull is not Something that can be cut by a mere dagger

[@adamraddish]

I love the design for the monster of a ship

[@Sp33ddialz]

"After the destruction of Vulcan at the hands of Time Traveling Romulans..." Oh Star Trek, never change, hahaha.

[@hoojiwana]

I just couldn't resist writing that line. - hoojiwana from Spacedock

[@seantaggart7382]

​@@hoojiwana DAMN ROMULANS! hehe

[@kronosaur417]

In my head canon, the corpse of the Vengeance would be salvaged and serve as the basses for a Kelvin timeline variant of the Excelsior class.

[@MikMoen]

It really is too bad though, the Federation needed dedicated Warships to fill that defense role. Like a famous Krogan once said, "Offer one hand, but arm the other." Starfleet can be both peaceful explorers and a Military.

[@jeremydale4548]

Yes. This. Sadly because of Roddenberry’s pipe dream of the future, people today aren’t going to accept Starfleet as equal parts military and exploration organization.

[@roguerazac7071]

Everything aside I love this ship and it’s design. Showing what happens when humanity feels less friendly

[@malkum77ify]

Humanity is only one bad day away from becoming the Terran Empire!

[@Kronosfobi]

@@malkum77ify And the Terran Empire is only a bad day away from collapsing.

[@malkum77ify]

@@Kronosfobi Only for them to come back together and start all over again. From what we've seen, the only thing that can defeat the terran Empire is the terran Empire.

[@robertoprimordial2633]

Concordo

[@CaneMcKeyton]

Star Trek Online made me like this ship 1000x more than if we were just going off the movie

[@Corbomite_Meatballs]

It's one of my fave ships to fly, esp. when you get all the movie-aligned weapons and consoles aboard it.

[@twelfthknight]

To me, the Vengeance has the same issues as the Scimitar from Nemesis. They're both ships clearly designed to be as powerful and convenient as the plot needs them to be. As opposed to Wrath of Khan - which obviously both movies were attempting to emulate - where Khan only had a bog-standard Miranda-class to face off against Kirk's Enterprise, and yet it's still widely considered the best spaceship battle in franchise history.

[@MatthewOstergren]

Wrath of Khan has a tension to it partially because the two sides are approximately evenly matched and it's about out-thinking and outmaneuvering. There's also no fistfight at the end to determine who wins. Nemesis and Into Darkness, the villain ship has an insane advantage in power, stealth, speed etc, but the ultimate outcome is decided by people hitting each other in the face with their hands. Wrath of Khan never even has Kirk or Khan in the same room. The restraint by the writers and director is part of why the conflict between Kirk and Khan feels so emotional and tense in comparison.

[@TheIconianCat]

It’s a similar kind of showdown but a completely different encounter. Wrath of khan was like two submarine crews outguessing and out maneuvering each other. Had khan not nearly disabled the enterprise outright with his opening move the matchup would’ve been 100% enterprise victory. Miranda class ships were insanely fragile compared to the enterprise. The scimitar and vengeance however were beaten almost PURELY because of the faults of their respective captains. Shinzon’s pride and arrogance is why he lost to Picard because he didn’t expect Picard to Ram the scimitar. And Marcus underestimated Kirk and Spock’s responses. Marcus realistically should have blown the enterprise out of the sky right then and there into rubble. Instead of waiting for his fancy torpedo launchers. His phasers almost separated the saucer bridge on his opening volley

[@TheZamaron]

Except that at the time the Miranda was very close in capability to the Connie, It's simply that the Connie was chosen to be retired why the Miranda (Likely a newer ship in general) stuck around, may be that the Miranda is just for whatever reason easier to mass produce and update when needed. Plus watch the battle closely, Khan actually uses good tactics and knowledge of the ENterprise, a typical enemy wouldn't, so Khan fired in criticle places attempting to slowly tear the Enterprise apart, he wanted Kirk to die slowly, not quick. But this arrogance of his gave Kirk an advantage and using Khan's ego and desire for revenge drew him into a Nebula where it evened the playing field, they both lost shields, visuals were hard, and auto targetting too, they had to fire and target manually, so not as accurate. THat's why it's a great battle, it wasn't just ships shooting at each other like ussual, or claver tactics, it was about out smarting your opponent and using his emotional weaknesses. Essentially it was great because it was personal for both. Khan for revenge on Kirk, and Kirk for keeping his ship and crew safe and ending this threat to the Federation.

[@timwashburn8553]

I just wonder why neither of them thought of targeting the bridges of either ship. The would have ended the battle right then and there.

[@DarthVader-1701]

The Miranda had the same capabilities as the Constitution and more. It was a multi-mission ship with a ton of utility options. The Constitution could do just about anything as well but had limited shuttle space. The Miranda has two massive interconnected shuttlebays. Both ships complement each other.

[@alexboehm3919]

This might honestly be my favorite Star Trek ship, due to the advanced systems and powerful weapons it possesses!

[@walkingcarpet420]

Same, it is the coolest ship!

[@Geats-IX]

Until the refit vessels come along. Than it lags behind like a WWII battleship compared to a Missile Cruiser.

[@CalamityAC432]

@@Geats-IXummm Sorry but the Vengeance was a Missile Battleship compared to the Refit ships lol(since the Kelvin timeline’s technology were same as TNG’s tech)

[@AndorRadnai]

I love how big the Kelvin Timeline Nacelles are. Works really well for how powerful the new ships feel!

[@merafirewing6591]

This one of the things that I made an exception for the Kelvin Trilogy, despite it flaws and such. I will assume that Section 31 had a batch of the Dreadnought class built in secret.

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

Of course they would because section 31 has a brain compared to starfleet and when the federation is at war again eventually kirk is going to be happy to see more of these on his side for once.

[@TheOmegaXicor]

@@GamerX-lc9ht I don't know, a SECRET organisation, building a massive fleet of massive ships that don't need crewing, sounds an awful lot like the last Star Wars movie (and I stress the word AWFUL)

[@GoldenSkies061]

@@GamerX-lc9ht I mean, it's not like starfleet is totally incapable of being warlike without Section 31 (see the warships built in response to the Borg and Dominion in the prime timeline for an example).

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

@@TheOmegaXicor I see what you are saying but if it's section 31 it will only probably be a few ships not exogol size of a fleet and that movie I agree is terrible.

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

Imagine a Massive borg cube being attacked by a dozen of theses ships , warp in attack warp out repeat

[@Dracounguis]

Oh yeah that's right... the admiral had a scale model of his SUPER SECRET dreadnought in his office. 🤣

[@aztn19]

This breakdown of the Vengeance is so good that it ALMOST makes Star Trek: Into Darkness worth re-watching…almost lol!

[@MatthewOstergren]

It's a cool ship in a miserably awful movie, that's just trying way too hard.

[@j.t.wilson7850]

@@MatthewOstergren 🎯

[@Potrimpo]

I'd like to point out the Constitution class starship has a maximum speed of warp 8 (512c/1024c), while the Federation class dreadnought has a maximum speed of warp 10 (1000c/2154c) from Franz Joseph's tech manual. So it's easy to see how even a Dreadnought class can catch up to the Enterprise.

[@drockjr]

It stunk that the scene was so visually Dark. The screen was so black, the ship was hard to really see on screen. Such a detrimental move

[@jkg6211]

Well.... it was called "Into Darkness". Lol

[@drockjr]

@@jkg6211 ok. You do have a point

[@johnsteiner3417]

Into Darkness delved into a policy matter that was overdue in Star Trek, that being what is Starfleet. These three Kelvin movies are what made me want to self-idendify as a Trekkies and were the best of the franchise to that time.

[@mattwho81]

Kahn “He needed my savagery.” I like the idea 23rd types could build this ship at any time but they just didn’t think that way anymore. Too many decades at peace had left them blind to the brutal aspects of war. Kahn looked at their ship designs and went “Ditch the labs, ditch the chess room and the yoga rooms. Put in torpedoes, shields, torpedoes. Phasers, back up computer cores, torpedoes, armour the deflector dish, and some more torpedoes while you’re at it.”

[@BennyBoy_Alpha]

And then probably said “still not enough torpedoes”

[@djcuevas1057]

And that’s after the federation already tosses around super nukes like candy.

[@gphoenix51]

I loved the Vengeance. Definitely not something Starfleet needs to have all the time, but certainly something it needs to keep on standby in case of attack or war being declared.

[@jacara1981]

I really wish Star Trek would do more to expand on Carrier ships and Colony Ships. The Carriers were never mentioned in the shows but were planned. Colony ships were mentioned several times in TNG. Neither ever showed up on screen due to budget issues. I know that they had planned to show a Carrier ship during the Dominion War, it would drop off the Fighter wings before retreating to safe distances. The Colony ships were mentioned and in other official books were stated to have 10+ transporter rooms, dozens of Shuttles, ship to surface deployment platforms for things that couldn't fit in shuttles and couldn't be transported, and could carry something like 5 to 10k colonists. The downside is they were really really slow because of their size as being some of the largest ships ever built in the Federation (they are not Star Fleet ships)

[@plumdowner1941]

As much as Starfleet has never been a military organisation. Considering the Vengeance and the Defiant, they sure do make very nice looking dedicated warships. Regardless of timeline.

[@SChimera]

This needs so much more than a 5min video :O

[@Optimistprime.]

While this movie was not the best, I mean that lightly, it was a fun one. I enjoyed that ship and the Eaglemoss model really brings it into light. This movie is such a contribution. Nothing makes much sense yet I enjoyed the action.

[@brucereutens8730]

It may have been designed and built by villains, but the Federation definitely needed purpose built warships like the Vengence. Disbanding the MACOS - pre Federation United Earth military - was foolish.

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

Yes it was.

[@harbour2118]

Honestly I feel like the look of the vengeance isn't too villainous, black is often used in submarines, a lot of past warships of both the good guys and bad guys looked threatening and bulky. I think its just the name vengeance, though there was a british ship called that

[@nathanpierce7681]

the entire disbanding macos thing was also exactly why krall became what he was lmao

[@willerwin3201]

“The Enterprise is fast? *Well MY ship is three times faster!*” “The Enterprise can’t shoot phasers at warp? *Well MY ship can!*” The Enterprise has shields? *Well MY ship’s phasers and torpedoes can go right through them!*” Watching JJ Trek’s villain ships feels like watching a 5-year-old at play.

[@Valkires1]

I like how They made a cut out Around the bridge so not only could it be targeted from the top but also the bottom.

[@Naptosis]

The traditional Starfleet 'saucer' design is just a massive flying target 🎯 anyway. I don't think they care that the bridge is centred right in the bullseye. I imagine basic military doctrine has been lost or withered away by the 2200s for some reason. Perhaps they are just supremely, arrogantly, overconfident (as Q demonstrated in Q Who); the same reason they don't have seat belts on the bridge, I presume.

[@Valkires1]

@Samsonite Johnson Don't accuse me of being stupid and then make a stupider point. Even if the bridges on deck one, It still has new firing angles that the missing ship allows it to be hit from, And there's less deck that needs to be burned through to be hit from the bottom. Additionally a torpedo can now hit the bridge from either the bottom of the ship or the top of the ship. Is any 8 year old that plays CSGO or R6 Could recognize this, How is it so hard that you can't?

[@CalebThomasMedia]

I like the idea that Nero + Khan + Control = The Vengeance.

[@Gravemindefiler]

The craziest part was the line of model ships on his desk in the open where the vengeance was proudly displayed as a way of foreshadowing.

[@jimskywaker4345]

That was probably for plausible deniability

[@kingsman4628]

Definitely my favorite ship of the whole franchise!!!! She's gorgeous!!! Update:ok...maybe not the favorite of the WHOLE franchise...but still One of the favorite!

[@CrystalKingdomGeneral4942]

I was hoping you would review the ship from STO, but this is still awesome. Miss the Vengeance and here is to hoping sometime, someone directing Star Trek will bring it back in a better light.

[@SilverAranda]

I always tough section 31 had at least one or two Venganza class build secretly even from the admiral

[@GamerX-lc9ht]

of course.

[@deltaboy2011]

He would have approved anyways even if he was still alive.

[@mdsx01]

Marcus wasn't wrong, but the way he went about it was. The only good things grown in the dark are mushrooms.

[@uss_04]

I like to think Khan’s augmentations to the Vengeance class was “make this faster. Make this part stronger. Make this part boomier”

[@CalvinNoire]

"Sharpen this edge to make it look more cool and intimidating"

[@prestonroberts2941]

What else would a guy frozen since 1996 offer to engineers in the 23rd century? With his enhanced intellect, he could have gotten up to speed on the technology pretty quickly, but he was still way out of his element.

[@JakeTheSnake33]

YES! Thanks so much for doing this video Spacedock! I’ve been wanting a breakdown of this ship for a little while now and you guys did not disappoint. Absolutely loved the video. Keep up the fantastic work!

[@sagesheahan6732]

You guys NEED to start doing these again. There are still PLENTY of starships, fighters and Sci-Fi vehicles you could do in specification videos.

[@nathankrakowski7307]

USS Vengeance is by far, my favorite Star Trek ship

[@ScientistCat]

You forgot the ship’s most important feature an onboard brewery, for when the crew is either bored or celebrating.

[@KeithenX]

That ship is Badas**!!

[@sabbiconsymptom]

I wish they made a whole fleet of those Dreadnought class starships. The Klingons and Romulans would think twice before messing with the Federation. Even the Borg would have a hard time with them. The Dominion would have been annihilated also. It's a bad ass warship. Not ideal for exploring I guess but it would provide security for the Federation.

[@Geats-IX]

No it wouldn't. The Vengeance is an old museum ship by the time of TNG and would be outclassed by not only the USS Voyager but the TMP refit of the Enterprise. One Jem'hadar fighter can easily bypass their shields. Vengeance class ships are so old they would be slaughtered quicker than the combined Romulan-Cardassian fleet during the Battle of the Omarion Nebula.

[@CalamityAC432]

@@Geats-IXremember: KT’s tech were same as TNG’s tech after the Narada event

[@Grizcat-]

I discovered this channel and saw the video on the Normandy SR-2 just as Mass Effect legendary edition was free with ps plus this month. I was curious and inspired to try it, now I’m hooked. Love Mass Effect, Love this channel

[@keith.vukasinovich]

The Kevin timeline has so much potential to tell a different story from the Trek we all grew up with. The Federation with long range teleporters like other used by Khan to get all the way to Kronos (tyvm Scotty) from Earth AND the shipyard for the USS Vengeance. Faster, bigger, more powerful - all phrases that would give both Starfleet & Section 31 serious wood. Just as the US benefitted from the technology of Germany post WWII, there is zero chance that the Federation would ignore the advantages rendered from these to milestones. This would have been a game changer in the relationship with both the Klingons & the Romulus Empires.

[@chrismacphee664]

Thanks for the great video. High quality and informative, as always. :-)

[@Firefox13A]

I maintain that had it just been “John Harrison” and NOT Khan, it would have been a decent movie with an original character.

[@TheMcBobbles]

1:22 nice artwork, I would love it as my windows wallpaper!

[@wolfwilkopter2231]

Still my GoTo Vessel in STO. :)

[@acesw6124]

Would have been interesting to have the USS Vengeance accidentally crossover into the Mirrorverse in an alternative Kelvin timeline instead of the USS Defiant

[@EdKolis]

They teased something like that on Discovery, but nothing ever came of it yet...

[@Geats-IX]

The Vengeance is like an aging slow Dreadnaught compared to what we've seen in the Mirrorverse.

[@iHusk]

I always wondered what the Prime universe version of the Dreadnought class was. In my worthless head canon,I guess it's the Crossfield Class.

[@gmitchell_tc]

The Prime TOS universe, by virtue of being the Prime universe, never really had a need for a dreadnought-class ship (Franz Joseph's excellent TOS Technical Manual notwithstanding). Not until the Borg kicked off the Defiant!

[@tom611]

Section 31 in the Prime universe of Discovery had a number of ships similar to the Vengeance, though with a more arrow head shape saucer and varying number of nacelles in different configurations.

[@EdKolis]

@@gmitchell_tc The Defiant is way too small to be a dreadnought. How about the Sovereign class?

[@RealGracefulGoose]

​@@EdKolis The Sovereign feels more like a heavy cruiser. I don't think prime Starfleet ever developed anything like the Dreadnought class.

[@YouTubecanbitemyhairybanger]

It's the pizza cutter where every crew member is an insubordinate emotional toddler that spends half their time crying in corridors... How you think that resembles the vengeance is beyond me

[@doragonn3y692]

clicked the moment i saw the notification

[@Burn2themall]

It's always funny to me when starfleet gets full on warships especially when new factions still think they can defeat them in a no holds barred war they CHOOSE not to be war based it doesn't mean they can't hold their own

[@thatblastedsamophlange]

Kelvin Timeline and the warship here reminds me of the Starfleet Battles universe.

[@MoosicDude]

I'd like to think one of these may show up in Star Trek: Section 31, those guys absolutely would not let that sort of tech go.

[@Username3141519]

Headcanon: the Vengeance was a testbed and not really meant to go into actual, sustained combat so when the torpedoes detonated inside the stardrive section, the ship was utterly disabled. The design would provide the basis of the Enterprise-A seen at the end of Beyond.

[@kingssman2]

I wish the Dreadnought had more screentime, I like the design. Armored Warp Nacelles, armored deflector dish, torpedo launchers on turrets in the saucer section allowing multiple arc firing. Phaser emitters that are close to the warp core for direct power consumption. The bridge occupying its own hollow space away from the main saucer so it can have its own separate shield emitter and away from reaction damage in case the torpedos in the saucer gets blown up. I wish this ship would've existed in the prime trek universe.

[@jeffumbach]

Is that what the heck that weird donut hole was supposed to be?

[@patrickhogan9256]

At 1:16 WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM WARP FOR THIS DREGNOGHT SHIP

[@emperorconstantine1.361]

It’s my main ship in Star Trek online. And I leave the movie style phasers on it.

[@DeetexSeraphine]

So many things that I, as a trekkie, feel the need to remark upon in this video...

[@kirkjv1]

One of my favorite ships! EVER!

[@JunkPhuJP]

Ah the "ST: Bridge Commander" OST in the background. I see you're a man of culture.

[@tjmitchell7875]

I understand what people think, but I still believe that the 2 swivel mounts that lowered from the saucer, but where never used, where some form of rail guns. Expecially they way their coils lit up

[@ANONYMOUS_PEASANT]

Fun fact, prior to the enterprise A reveal (prime). There was a contest for new designs. One of them was the Vengeance design. Only difference was the size and the hole in the saucer.

[@hellkey002]

About the saucer. I'd like to think she was eqquiped with unfinished experimental sporedrive Paul Stamets was working on on this ship in the jjtimeline instead of the USS Discovery in the prime timeline. Just a crazy idea i had.

[@romankvapil9184]

The fact the Vengeance could actually perform combat roles in the middle warpspeeds is terrifying.

[@hansmerker5611]

I heard that the design of the Vengeance was the inspiration for the Resurgent class Star Destroyer.

[@vwboy2012]

They should have a secret army of the Dreadnoughts's that come out to stop a heavy Borg attack. Maybe someone outside of Starfleet. I think like rebel Borg building Dreadnoughts completely out of Cubes they capture. Idk...

[@dushi1903]

They really should make a tv series around this ship … maybe resurrecting the ship with a new multi alien race crew trained for war or difficult missions…

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

The situation should be really f***ed up if thier are ressurecting a secret war crime villain ship to save the day , and I'd be ready to watch it happen anytime any where

[@dennisboekema2065]

One of my most favorite ships in Star Trek Online, awesome design and plenty of firepower...

[@TriplePistol]

Finally what we've been waiting for

[@HitParade]

Loved watching Robocop blow the Enterprise out of warp with this MONSTER of a Federation ship.

[@smartwulf918]

Dead or alive, you're coming with me.

[@Jayjay-qe6um]

"That's a hell of a ship you've got there." -- James T. Kirk to Alexander Marcus

[@k-9741]

The model of the dreadnaught was right there on the admiral’s desk the whole time.

[@johnsteiner3417]

Okay, so you guys got the armament totally wrong. They mentioned a specific torpedo launcher, indicating there were others. Chances are, there were smaller phaser weapons mounted elsewhere, because at that size you would. Note how phaser pulses came from the saucer when firing off to the side.

[@_Omega_Weapon]

One of the most badass ships ever!

[@brianhirt5027]

Not a trekkie, per se. But really DID dig the line where Khan punked Spock hard. "He wanted my savagery. Intellect alone is useless in a fight. Look at you, Spock. You can't even break a rule. How could you be expected to break bones?". Good stuff. True too. All the brains in the world won't give you an edge in a fight unless you have the cojones, too.

[@gislasson]

spectacular video sir cheers from venezuela!

[@andersonic]

Thanks for at least a straightforward sanity check on this ship. It was intriguing on the big screen but being JJ Abrams a lot was hand-waved. Like those two phaser spheres that can separate and fly toward a target. We never see clearly that they exist or how they operate. And okay, they can flank an opponent without other ships, but what's their power source? If you can shoot effective phasers from a little flying ball, why doesn't Starfleet just have an escort fleet of little flying balls?

[@thetimelapsesketchbook.9088]

Remans: 'look at the Scimitar.' Kelvin Timeline Federation: 'hold my Romulan Ale.'

[@IamMeHere2See]

Feel like this should be called a dreadnaught-type ship of the Vengeance class, since the Vengeance is the first od her class.

[@malkum77ify]

This is my go-to ship whenever I play Star Trek Online. I can load fighters into the hangar Bay and use it as a Carrier.

[@christian-michaelhansen471]

I found hoojiwana’s entry, and excuse me if I am repeating something already covered here. Please do a detailed account of “Yorktown, the Federation’s newest and most advanced Starbase!” Please, please, please! Thank you.

[@DMotivationals]

The Romulan Scimitar is still THE SHIP for me.

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

Vengeance vs scimitar faceoff , don't care who wins , just want popcorn

[@cyborghobo9717]

In my head canon the shiny disc in front of federation ships probably works also like a thermal management system radiator , that gates in front the dish could be meant to reduce the heat signature of the ship giving it limited stealth capabilities.

[@Vince005aran]

If I remember correctly heat usually radiates off the pylons(the wing-like structures holding the warp nacelles), but that could possibly work too. Its a shame they still haven't addressed heat management in any canon

[@CtrlOptDel]

@@Vince005aran Some novels have a hand-wavy explanation of they dump waste heat into subspace.

[@patrick_j_lee]

The deflector dish (the disc you're referring to) emits a beam that pushes particles out of the way of the ship while going at high speeds.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

The dish basically makes it so that you can fly through space at a significant percentage of lightspeed, or even several times lightspeed while at warp, without having each mote of dust collide against your hull with the effect of a nuclear explosion. This doesn't mean you can ignore larger pieces of matter, like asteroids or anything, and we often do see Trek ships moving to avoid pieces of matter that are presumably the dish alone cannot handle, but generally, the dish makes it safe for you to move at obscene velocities without dying to random grains of sand. IIRC, a fairly standard full impulse speed for a Star Trek ship is 20% the speed of light, which makes them... what... four times faster than some of the System Alliance's capital-grade railgun slugs? I think the famous Isaac Newton quote places a Systems Alliance railgun at 5% the speed of light. At that speed, flying through any debris field is like having a Systems Alliance fleet emptying every mass driver they have into your ship while it's stationary relative to them, except if their railguns could lob projectiles 4X faster than they already do, or if you were flying into their fire at 15% the speed of light, roughly, and not accounting for relativistic effects. Without the deflector dish, every tiny dust mote hitting you is catastrophic. This deflector field is also partly responsible for protecting the ship against radiation and radiation-based weaponry, and is the reason why laser weaponry is woefully outdated by the time of Star Trek. Oh, and presumably because it's built to push anything in your path out of your way while you're moving at ludicrous speeds, navigational deflectors are also capable of handling immense energy output, and are often the most powerful emitters of any sort on any Starfleet ship. This makes them a popular choice for temporary conversion into a gigantic beam cannon, used most famously by the Enterprise-D. Basically, if you need a big gun, why not have it be the ENTIRE SECONDARY HULL of the ship putting out as much power as your antimatter reactor can generate? Lower Decks alludes to this once, IIRC, but they opted to eject the entire warp core instead, which was a pretty good idea at the time. Instead, this tactic is mostly used by ships called Enterprise - once in Star Trek Phase II and I think twice with the Enterprise-D in the TNG era, once in an attempt to destroy a Borg cube and once to destroy a Jem'Hadar dreadnought. This usually isn't practical in battle because the dish fires off so much power that you are left without much juice to do much else, and in the case of the Borg plan, it took quite a long time to prepare. The deflector dish is both ridiculously powerful and ridiculously versatile, making it a very popular choice for technobabble shenanigans or literally just having a gigantic gun on your ship without calling it a gigantic gun.

[@cfo0621]

Love the ventral shuttle bay ports. Great shout out to the NX Class Shuttle pod bays.

[@R3VeLatioN]

I loved the first two movies, sooo good I hope they continue the kelvin timeline

[@tarn1135]

I really enjoyed this ship design. Literally the only ship design I like from the reboot.

[@Jennifer-297]

The bridge commander music makes me want to play it again

[@MrGogether3000]

This ship should be standard fleet with all the threats the federation faced..

[@maybetoby]

I loved everything about this ship except the saucer section. That cutout just looks odd. Can you do a video on why phasers and photon torpedoes are rarely ever fired while at warpspeed?

[@jeffumbach]

Yeah that pointless cutout just bothers me. "Hey we're going to make it so if you need to get to the front of the saucer you have to take the long way around, hopefully the turbolifts never go out."

[@maybetoby]

@@jeffumbach lol yeah that's a very good point. I was just talking about the visual aesthetic, but yeah in terms of functionality that's pretty bad.

[@sumukhvmrsat6347]

Can't say man , if you ask me to make a plus point , I'd say the negative space can take in configurable mission modified modules , need cargo space , boom , need life support space for evacuation while also fighting through ? Boom , need extra weapons or shield or ice cream ? Boom

[@EdKolis]

"The ship can do this even while at war." Gee, I didn't know diplomacy affected the capabilities of - oh, warp. While at warp.