Spinning the ASK21 with my gliding instructor

I started learning to fly gliders at the Soaring Society of Boulder in Colorado, last May. This is a short edit of a spin recognition and recovery flight with my instructor. I also practice a slip to land on final. I've since earned my glider rating (pilot's license for gliders), and I'm looking forward to more soaring!

[@1010degrees]

These are the kind of instructors that every student should hope to have. Not condescending, professional and enthusiastic.

[@Jim181059]

I had an instructor a long time ago who let me struggle with a thermal - took me about 25 minutes to gain 1000 feet!

[@mofamba]

Spin training is discouraged

[@TheSoaringChannel]

@@mofamba why?

[@mofamba]

@@TheSoaringChannel proven too dangerous? I guess too many crashes? I just read it in a recent instructor do’s and do nots instructors manuals. Spins are easy to recover so I don’t get it either.

[@Mistardmuster]

your instructor sounds like a really fun guy

[@trevoradams8675]

Wow loved that instructor. Great energy. Nice flying. Excellent video thanks for taking us along. :)

[@MichaelAye]

you gotta love Bob's enthusiasm! Can't wait to get back to flying this season!

[@markplain2555]

Once tried spinning the ASK21... frikken thing would stall but wouldn't spin no matter how hard I tried. Then someone told me you have to install a "spin kit" - special weights on the tail. . . I want to go fly at this club just to do that cool approach over the lake.

[@greggdavis]

Yeah, Mark, it's an awesome place to fly, and where I learned. We have the spin weights at the club and it was super-cool to do that, though I'm not sure I would ever do it without the instructor in the back seat!

[@Haralddv]

That is one epic final leg!

[@GregoryBrown6283]

Good flight. Great instructor.

[@Gliders115]

It was interesting seeing the slip to land, one of my instructors told me to never slip the K21. Still love to do it in the 2-33 and 1-26 though.

[@eckiger4566]

The 21 is awesome to slip and it works well. you shouldnt slip a LS4 for example but the ASK21 is perfect for it

[@Gliders115]

@@eckiger4566 I'll have to try it on my next flight!

[@dopplerfox]

Awesome stuff, I remember flying the ASK21 in X-Plane 10, got flashbacks from this! I really ought to go flying irl one day…

[@Rudy01B]

it's awesome, im learning to do it. I did a spin the other day, it was exhilarating!

[@justsnappy]

Very cool!

[@fwdslip5964]

Right Rudder, Left Aileron. Nice slip!

[@PaddyPatrone]

looks like fun

[@StickandGlider]

Nice demo!

[@markholroyd8021]

Gotta love spinning.

[@sigmasquadleader]

"See how you locked it in??" Me, watching full-screen: AAAAÀAAAAHHHHHHHH

[@bestconfigurationforgames]

Instructor good energy bro

[@kardRatzinger]

jeez, it makes almost a full rotation after the full left rudder.

[@greggdavis]

Yeah, you need some space between you and the ground!

[@xxalxer5994]

nice landing

[@glidingsmith]

I'm assuming you had ballasted the tail to get it to spin? I'm an instructor in the UK and we have two K21's - both with tail ballast weights. They spin horribly and unpredictably. Always preferred using our DG505 for spin training. Alas, we no longer have a Puchacz on our fleet which spun beautifully or the ASK13 which is no longer cleared for intentional spinning.

[@greggdavis]

Yes - you're absolutely right, we had the tail weights attached for the spin training. It wasn't horrible or unpredictable in our case. At the Boulder Soaring club we also have a DG505 - I haven't done spin training in it.

[@jonsteensen7706]

The Spinning of the K13 isn't especially convincing, at least not when done with two people on board. Ours could do it with me in the front seat, back when I was close to the minimum weight, but it certainly preferred right spins, and was not so keen on doing it to the left. I cannot say how well it spins when flown solo, as I haven't tried that, but I don't find it particularly well suited to teach how to get out of a spin, as it basically does it on its own as soon as the instructor stops giving it pro-spin rudder input.

[@thehessian7622]

Das gute alte hessische Segelflugzeug liegt wie ein Brett in der Luft. 👍

[@HotelPapa100]

Comments at the beginning about control properties of the ASK 21 when ballasted for spin practice, right?

[@greggdavis]

Exactly!

[@cumulusrider]

k21s wont normally spin. Did you have tail ballast?

[@greggdavis]

Yes, thanks for asking! We used the tail weights meant for the ASK21.

[@cumulusrider]

At Our club we have 5 x AS21s but we retain 6x K13s for basic training and spin practice

[@spacejam5410]

our club uses just 2 k13s :D one of them has a skid instead of a wheel making it even easier to spin :)

[@20gilbert20]

Very respectable piloting skills. Way to go, Mr. Davis! I live near Pueblo, CO, but sometimes I get up to Boulder, where I went to college. Do they have any gliders for rent?

[@greggdavis]

Thanks Gil! I actually live up in Fairplay, but I'm a member of the soaring club in Boulder - club members can fly all 4 of the club gliders, and we have two tow planes. Next door, there's Mile High Gliding, which may offer rentals - they at least give rides!

[@amerassi9319]

NICE LANDING

[@MrJoggl]

Actually not, very fast touchdown

[@ascherlafayette8572]

How do you mount your camera? I tried a head mount but it kept bumping the canopy

[@greggdavis]

In my first season I had the head mount, and I'm not that tall, so it would fit beneath the canopy. This video has the camera on my head. However, I now use a few different mounts to place the camera in a fixed location attached to the inside of the glider. In once case, there's a GoPro mount stuck to the side of the fuselage at about head level. I use a "gooseneck" adjustable mount from GoPro to bring the camera forward so my head's not in the shot. In the club's Discus I use a little velcro and place the camera on top of the panel, which has a velcro anti-glare covering.

[@pyewackett3822]

Did you have to counter weight the 21 to get her to spin? I've never been able to get one to spin.

[@m10653]

There is a spin kit for the ask21 that moves the SG. But you can also spin it if you are near the mins for pilot weight front and rear.

[@greggdavis]

Yes, we added the tail weights! Our mission was spin training.

[@hpmaxim]

@@greggdavis I've never spun a K21, but my club does have a pair and we have the spin kit. But my understanding is that the K21 is prone to pitch oscillation in a spin, but yours actually seemed pretty flat after the first turn. Did you try spins other times, any tendency to pitch oscillate?

[@cameronvlogs8548]

Why isn't the yaw string stuck on the center of the canopy?

[@greggdavis]

On the final leg, I'm practicing a slip to land, that's why the yaw string isn't centered.

[@henrih3080]

How did you mounted your camera on your head?

[@greggdavis]

That was the GoPro included "head strap" mount that came with my GoPro 7. It's a stretchy strap that goes around the head and over the top, with a GoPro mount on the front. I wore it over my baseball hat, with the camera above the brim.

[@rapinncapin123]

Niice

[@thdestiny4907]

ddddddddooooooodeee thats so craaaazzzyyyy😱😱 im fried gust by watching this lol

[@DarthWindu06]

This guy: Somehow spins a K21 Me: you must train him Obi-Wan, he is the chosen one

[@greggdavis]

We added the spin ballast weights to the tail to allow the K21 to enter a spin.

[@DarthWindu06]

Gregg Davis ahh that explains a lot hahaha

[@geoffreybrown1312]

I know the military experimented with those. Personally, if the K21 doesn't have the elevator authority to enter a spin, I wouldn't rely on it having enough elevator to get it out.

[@DarthWindu06]

@@geoffreybrown1312 it can get itself out relatively easy

[@ksb2112]

@@geoffreybrown1312 Well, I can say that is the same glider I used to learn spin recovery as well. With the spin ballast added to the tail, of course.

[@masso172]

Did you speed up the video on final or did you actually land that fast ?

[@greggdavis]

masso172 I didn’t speed up the footage, but I did edit out some of the glide, so that it seems like it sped up the landing.

[@masso172]

Gregg Davis makes sense haha the landing was excellent ! It just seemed super fast but hey it's definitely not a bad thing if it was

[@daveandrew589]

Very interesting. I am getting interested in soaring, live in Evergreen Colorado, so may end up flying the very same glider at SSB. Who was the instructor, and how would you rate him and general impressions of SSB? Thanks.

[@greggdavis]

Hi Dave! Yeah, welcome! Soaring in Boulder is awesome, it's my 5th season, and I live up in Fairplay. Bob Faris is my instructor, and he's excellent. Best would be to come down to the club on a weekend morning and poke around and meet some folks. You will probably run into Bob on any morning, especially weekends. I did my research before I started on the other clubs around, and Boulder is the most active and has the best equipment. Also Boulder is the one that's closest to the mountains and so our playground is generally over the peaks.

[@daveandrew589]

@@greggdavis Gregg, thanks for the (very fast) reply. I've seen Bob's name pop up a few places already, and it seems like SSB has an active program. I'm hoping to get out there next weekend to check it out. Regards.

[@monza1002000]

Why on earth spin a K21 like that? How much weight did they add to make it spin at all as they are almost spin proof and self correcting

[@greggdavis]

Practice! Training! The K21 has a special weight kit for this purpose and you have to calculate the weight and balance for the ship to find the correct weight range fir the spin weights. As I remember it was about 5 pounds for me and my instructor. There are plates and a bolt that runs through a hole at the base of the tail.

[@monza1002000]

@@greggdavis Why not use a K13? Seems pointless to make a glider spin that was designed not to.

[@greggdavis]

@@monza1002000 we don’t have a K13 at our club. It’s our main training aircraft, so there’s definitely a reason to spin the K21. It’s designed to do so for training, that’s why it has designated tail weights.

[@jaycrone7355]

Like a fidget spinner

[@johnc6919]

Assume the guy in front weighs about 3 stone? Never managed to get a 21 into a full spin only incipient. Imagine it was interesting?

[@greggdavis]

The K21 has optional spin weights you can fix to the tail, which we used to get the CG far enough to the rear. Otherwise the K21 won’t spin!

[@gliding_soaring]

How did you spin the ASK21? Is it the version with balast in the tail?

[@greggdavis]

Hey Piotr, yes, we have ballast plates that we can add to the tail for this type of training!

[@gliding_soaring]

@@greggdavis now I understand :)

[@wenlix8690]

gg

[@Pianistaa]

muy interrumpido la editacion del video. queria ver desde el principio sin cortes :(

[@leonardbose4885]

Well I'm scared of this, lucky the Grob G-103 doesn't like spins😂😂

[@wp.alexandre]

You weren't in a symmetrical flight in last turn. That's dangerous bcs you're in low speed.

[@greggdavis]

Yes, that was intentional - we were practicing a forward slip to reduce lift without using the dive brakes. This was a training flight. As long as the non-aligned flight is slipping with the nose pointing to the outside of the turn, and not skidding, which is the opposite, it's safe. You're right, if it had been the other way , skidding a turn near the ground, that would have been dangerous. We practice slipping a turn on landing in case the dive brakes are ever frozen shut or not working.

[@skydive1424]

With a normal cg this is not possible with both the 21 and the 23

[@greggdavis]

Yes I mention the tail ballast that we used in other replies. The K21 has a purpose-built hole and through-bolt for the tail weights made for this purpose. It's at the base of the vertical.

[@skydive1424]

Gregg Davis yes, I read that after I posted... Sorry... But as I’m not flying anymore and out of curiosity. Is that aft cg approved for normal flight? I would imagine that it would thermal and glide better with the aft cg... Im my days we had a “Rhönlerche” that woud spin at will and stay stable spinning which was great for training. even the K-13 would not spin stable

[@greggdavis]

@@skydive1424 I don't think the aft CG ballast is used in normal flight; just for training, at least in Boulder, CO, anyway!

[@a.j743]

Kinda sound like... A T-figther? @0:41

[@Me-fh2cs]

Parece até que está parado,mas quando pousa da para ver um pouco que a velocidade é demais.

[@jzak613]

Nice video. Appears you lost about 800ft in the spin. I was taught to keep the altitude loss to a minimum ie. 300ft. As the places you may spin are close to the ground. On final or winch launch.

[@greggdavis]

Yup, you're right, but we were practicing recognizing and recovering from a spin, not minimizing altitude loss. You can hear my instructor telling me to keep it in the spin - we did three rotations on that one. Right afterwards, we practiced a number of quick recoveries as well.

[@thomasrussell3924]

A 300ft spin is more an incipient spin, and a fully developed spin recovery is worth being shown as it can take longer to recover. Hope I am correct in this.

[@stephencameron4032]

Hi Gregg, I was really impressed by this video, but unfortunately, I accidentally touched the dislike button, from the bottom of my heart, I am truly sorry, I meant no disrespect, I am also a student pilot, on gyro-copters, but I have also had some gliding lessons, and I may return to gliding some day, stay safe, all the best, Stephen.

[@greggdavis]

Haha! No problem! I think you can click again to reverse it.

[@ericjean9632]

Le fils de laine dans le coin en dernier virage ??? pas très professionnel...

[@greggdavis]

Good noticing! We were practicing a forward slip, for the case that the air brakes are not working. slipping is ok, but skidding is not!