I hated Mansfield Park, so I reread it

My chapter by chapter reaction to Mansfield Park by Jane Austen, a book I thoroughly disliked when I first read it. Will I love it this time? I'm afraid you'll have to sit through all 42 minutes of this video to find out...
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[@SpinstersLibrary]

Drink every time I say "I actually really enjoyed this chapter" in a tone of surprise... and yes I know it says Chapter 2 instead of 9 when I'm actually discussing chapter 9 - this book has 48 chapters, it's easy to get confused there 😂

[@FreyaEinde]

Edmund is the worst love interest in all the Austen novels. It's kinda like being happy that your friend finally gets her crush to like her but you're like...thinking girl he's garbage their whole relationship kinda feel

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Mhm. Yes, no. Maybe Edmund is the worst love interest the same way that Mansfield Park is the worst novel: it's less fairy tale, with a 'never been as bewitched by a woman as I am by you'' love-interest with a million a year and a gorgeous mansion & park, and closer to real life with meddling abusive relatives and a love-interest who is kind-hearted, honest, comfortably off but not rich, and far from infailable _or_ unaffected by any other woman. And I guess both he and Fanny suffer from "good = boring". We are very much used to bad guy love-interests, and trained to think of moral characters as boring; you certainly aren't likely to get a lot of sexual escapades out of them. I real life Edmund would make a great love-interest, but in fiction you need bad communication skills and sulking to get some drama. The witty, clever, devious Crawfords with their shameless scheeming might make for dreadful partners in real life, but they make for much more interesting characters than Fanny and Edmund.

[@Plasticplas1]

mood

[@Mhelikerart]

I think what so many people miss when they read Mansfield Park is that Fanny has been abused. Emotionally she’s not only been cowed, she’s been outright surrounded by narcissists and she willingly serves them and loves them for some of the less harmful treatment, while longing to be truly seen and loved - she loves Edmund because he sees and loves her. She clings to what is good, true and beautiful, and is shook that he can’t do the same when a pretty face turns his head (in Mary). So many characters are sick to their cores, but their vices are concealed by how “fun” they are to read. Fanny is strong enough to refuse someone she KNOWS is incapable of choosing to be selfless. I think Austen was WAY ahead of her time in writing a character who was realistically surviving the kind of constant pervasive and disgusting abuse that Fanny did - she may be meek, and she may be “boring” compared to everyone else, but she’s the only one who doesn’t hurt everyone around her with her selfishness. She isn’t dragged down by the wickedness around her, and that is real strength.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

In defense of Edmund: I think Mary Crawford being pretty is only a small part of what catches him. She is clever, sometimes charming, sometimes witty, she pays more attention to Fanny than her own cousins to, and there's a push-pull effect: she challenges Edmund and his beliefs. Edmund does see some of her flaws (how she speaks about her uncle, and that rather filthy pun), but I suspect that adds to the spell: being torn between attraction and doubt. Fanny is most certainly strong, any weak young woman under fire by every single one of her acquainted to marry the rich, charming guy already would have given in in under 2 weeks. And that is kind of what makes her interesting: she appears so meek and obedient, mentally going on about what's right and wrong all the time, but once she decided that something is wrong, or someone is not to be trusted, she stand her ground.

[@mrsrunningmommy]

@@Julia-lk8jn Very well expressed!

[@Robutnikon]

Yes! Love this sinopsis 🙏🏼👍🏼🌟

[@Robutnikon]

@@Julia-lk8jn Yesss I love this perspective 🙏🏼❤️

[@feelswriter]

Exactly! -- to both of you. Also, in terms of abuse, there could be a way to understand Fanny's insights about others. This would be an alternative to seeing her as less human. Hyper-vigilance is well known to develop in situations of chronic advise. Fanny has to evaluate every new person for signs of danger, because there is hardly anyone to protect her. She is usually not involved with the social scene around her, and has plenty of time to develop her observations.

[@valeriebrogan1953]

Thank you for that insight on Edmund, you're right Mary Crawford never did deceive him, he deceived himself.

[@GitanAnimex]

in defence of Fanny, she is practily a victim of child abuse from her aunt, her uncle and the indiference of everyone else in that house, fanny thinks poor me im not alloud to do thinks because everyone tells her that why everybody expects her to be like Eizabeth Bennet ?? fanny sees clearly through henry ans mary crowford when everybody is into them, she stays true to herself and what she believes is right, when everyone is forcing her to marry Henry or when everyone even Edmund agrees to do that play . Mansfield Park is the story of the people of mansfield park not only fanny journey

[@rebeccareyes6171]

Fanny is an heroine for those of us who were sympathetic to Mary Bennett.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

9:20 "the social structures" - I think what makes Fanny's situation so Cinderella-esque is not the social structures as in rich land-owner versus (daughter of) poor captain. It's Mrs Norris who misses no opportunity to point out Fanny's inferiority, pretty much from the moment the poor girl arrives. Compare with Jane Fairfax in Emma: she's a sort-of poor relation too, but her position in her adopted family is a very different one. Same for Fanny being "a servant" to aunt Bertram - I don't think that is the case at all. For one thing, one of the things Fanny misses when she leaves her birth family is being useful, having something to do. It's not unusual at all that Fanny would help her aunt, it's more remarkable that Lady Bertrams 'real' daughters _don't_ do that. No wonder that the writing is reminiscent of Persuasion ; both Anne Elliot and Fanny Price are in that "the last and the least" Cinderella place, and in both cases it's not because social mores dictate that they be.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

I really like that book, and Fanny Price, _because_ she is so unlike the standard witty, confident heroine. It's ... I think it's a challenge to be friends with somebody who isn't like the friends we'd usually pick for ourselves. And the psychology of this book is perfect. It makes sense that Fanny, being ripped out of world where she had a place and value and friends, grows up fairly timid. It makes it all the more impressive that she holds on to her principles when under fire - that's always a feat, but so much more in somebody who is constantly being treated as, quote the Evil Aunt, 'the last and least" ! It makes sense that she falls in love with somebody who is kind and attentive and helps her not because he has to, but because he's that sort of person. And yes, Edmund isn't as byronic a hero as Mr Darcy, but it's kind of nice to see a romantic hero who doesn't have his own mansion, or is a sex god CEO billionaire, but simply a decent, kind-hearted man. Okay, I'll fetch myself some coffee & chocolate and then accompany you through 40 minutes of Mansfield Park :)

[@staffanlindstrom576]

I don´t think the psychology perfect. I never can believe that the Crawfords would be interested in Fanny and Edmund.

[@rebeccareyes6171]

@@staffanlindstrom576 I definitely buy Henry's determination to win over Fanny precisely because she isn't interested. Some of his interest in Maria initially definitely seems related to her being unattainable or forbidden as an engaged lady.

[@mothernyx4933]

Mansfield Park is my favorite. I just read it over the summer. I really like Fanny Price. I think people who were socially neglected or grew up like she did will really relate to her. Yes she's painfully good at reading others but I think she has to for several reasons. One she needs to have a good quality and two if she lived on the outskirts always doomed to be the observer she would def hone those skills more then others. Def a childhood trauma response of hypervigilance. She is quite fiery internally with her passion for Edmund. She keeps it inside and would def like a long slow burn friends to lover fan fiction. Edmund is the worse and I think Fanny and him get together as a reward for Fanny and just to give a happy ending where she is married in the end. I lowkey like Henry and Fanny together as they could change each other to bring out qualities they lack.

[@Littlelittlemouseuk]

Fanny is such a maligned character. Poor girl not only was uprooted from her own home at an early age but she also had a serious (un)diagnosed health issue. She is physically not very strong but she never gives in. But it does mean she has to choose how she will use her energy.......she simply can't waste her energy 'fighting' Mrs Norris. Just some of my thoughts on the character of Fanny

[@HeyAllyHey]

Littlelittlemouseuk IKR!? Mrs Norris will always be Mrs Norris. How exhausting would it be to constantly fight the dragon lady all the time lol Also, I have to disagree with Fanny being called “infallible” & “perfect” just because she was right about the Crawford’s, etc. She’s an unassuming wallflower! I would question what in the world is she doing if she isn’t as perceptive as she is 😅 (picking lint? Lol) The fact that she can make so clear a deduction about a characters’ true nature illustrates how blatant they are in their behavior & the insignificance of Fanny in their eyes.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

You're right with all of these observations - but I still don't like her as a character 😅

[@HeyAllyHey]

Spinster's Library Lol I think that fact is engraved somewhere...😝 I just can’t help but think that Fanny’s pimpin’ tho

[@lansean9]

Thank you for your review. It had many layers. You state quite openly that this is kind of a "Cinderella" story in that you have a wicked family with a "step-sister"/"daughter", etc. I agreed with this opinion. Then, you stated that you observed that Fanny is trying to "mind her place", which is continually dictated to her during her upbringing. But, then you say that she is boring and shy, rather than afraid and abused and, in general, wise enough to not wish to endure it further, and so acts accordingly (submissive). After all, this is not like "Pride and Prejudice", where most of the acts of the story are in a neutral territory. They are based in her "new" home, where she is a decidedly subordinate figure of both rank and substance, as a human being. I don't disagree with your observations, just your analysis, or perhaps not your analysis, but your appreciation of her state. Or perhaps, you did not fail to appreciate it, but simply thought "that" portion of the book, or her character, boring, or portrayed in a boring manner. Later, when the REASON that Fanny wishes to not enter into the play is discussed, to not alienate the father since he hates plays, we see her speak, "because someone finally asks her opinion", rather than everyone else discussing or stating what her opinion should be. Perhaps the book is like a Picasso painting, it not only is a painting about sadness or distraughtness about fascism, but it literally makes you feel distraught, due to the "weirdness" of his paintings, especially near WW2. Perhaps you are mistaking Fanny's being boring for Fanny being cautious and attempting to survive and walk gingerly through her minefield of her extremely socially competitive and domineering family? Or, did you get all of this, and that Jane Austen STILL writes it in a boring way? Also, I noticed that NONE of the male characters in any of the Jane Austen books come off very well. All are quite stupid, loud, crude, rude, and generally judge women via whether or not they are entertaining to them, rather than entities in and of themselves. The men have poor boundaries. I do like that this book mirrors the reality of that we might go to a big holiday party, but really only want to spend time with one person, but that person wants to spend time with many people. The "waiting" to be intimate is real. The father and older son are quite horrid, but I wonder if the father is terrible because his business is failing, and "that" preys upon his emotional generosity. He's not a terrible father, he's nonexistent.

[@UncleMo77]

Fanny Price had always been my third most likeable heroine of all of Jane Austen's heroines after Elizabeth Bennet and Anne Elliot. But after watching this video, I feel like almost rating her above Elizabeth.

[@cminmd0041]

I think people don't like Fanny because she accurately assesses her social capital and status in the world and we don't like seeing that reality reflected back at us. We love pretending you can tell your boss to fuck off and you'll start your own company and become a billionaire, not get evicted and lose your health insurance. We love believing that the rich boy will fall for and marry the girl from the other side of the tracks instead of just sleep with her and dump her. We love the Lizzie Bennett delusion! The only thing I disagree with you is the that Fanny has instant infallible instincts. She doesn't. She is introverted and ignored which means she gets to watch people while they carry on behaving normally. That gives her insight into their true natures. She bases her judgement on that long cultivated information.

[@charlesiragui2473]

I agree that Fanny seems grounded in a realism formed by discrimination and servitude. She's ignored and unappreciated so she sees more and talks less. Also, as Austen keeps reminding us, she was educated in human character by Edmund, her positive model. Unlike many people you're describing, she has powerful positive and negative models to start from, so she can make objective analyses of others.

[@AuntLoopy123]

I loved Mansfield Park, right from the start. I loved Fanny Price, right from the start. I saw her as being not so much a victim of abuse, but a SURVIVOR of abuse. She made it through, all while staying true to herself, her ideals, and her heart. That takes an amount of internal strength that most of us do not possess. As a disabled person, who has suffered with chronic issues for as long as I remember, I always related to her weak body, and her fragility. But, like me, she had a strong heart and mind. Other people, seeing her fragile body, did not give her credit for having such a strong mind, let alone heart. They saw only the surface, the poor relative, the weak girl, and the prude. Even her prudishness, however, was not truly over-the-top. She didn't look down on others, just because they engaged in off-color activities. She looked down on the actions, themselves, as being truly wrong, because she could see how they HURT other people. It's not the same as "It's a sin, and Jesus will judge you, so I will, too!" It was more of a "This is wrong, because of the obvious damage it does. I can't stop you, but I can refrain from doing the same thing." She was FORCED to support the family in the play, by doing all the behind-the-scenes work, and even that was squicky to her. But she did it, because she knew they (and in particular, Mrs. Norris, who is somehow comedic in her abuse of EVERYONE) would make her life a living hell, if she did not. But she drew the line, and stuck to it, on actual acting. The reason why Lover's Vows was so scandalous was because of the very clear incestuous relationship, and FAR TOO MUCH intimacy displayed between Agatha and Frederick. Most people don't know about that, but I just saw a video by Dr. Cox explaining the stage directions, and got completely squicked out. Before that, I was just going by context, and seeing that she was not so much "prissy" and "prudish," as she was following the teachings of Edmund, and Sir Thomas, and just about every cleric she'd ever met. And she saw how much hurt it caused to Mr. Rushworth. Most people complain about Fanny as being too passive. The thing is, all of her "action" is taking place in her MIND. We see it, if we look close enough, but she is definitely not an active heroine. She doesn't go out and land her man. She exercises supreme self-control, and THAT is her strength, and her heroism. She is an excellent example to anyone stuck in an abusive situation, for her endurance, and her ability to not allow the abusers to get the better of her. Yes, they abuse her for years, but they do not CHANGE her, and that is what I mean by "get the better of her." For that, she has my utmost respect. So, I'm going to watch your video now, and hope that, upon re-reading it, you see in it what I saw, and learn to at least like it, but hopefully, love it.

[@nobody8328]

Fanny is a character study of emotionally neglected children. When you've been told that you're nothing all your life, you believe it yourself. She didn't "come out of her shell", she survived and recovered from abuse. Of course you don't like Fanny. Abusers take every opportunity to cause other folks to see their target in the same way they do. And since Fanny herself believes she is nothing, that is all she can show you.

[@konpulsiv]

I used to dislike Mansfield Park when I read the book the first time, as a teenager. Since then, I must've red it ten times or so, and everytime I do, I like it a bit more. Aditionally, KZbinr Dr. Olivia Cox really made me see that Fanny is in no way a quiet, boring little girl. In fact, she's got so much passion and a lot of her supposed 'preachiness' is, in my opinion, jealousy and other deepy felt sentiments that she thinks she's not allowed to have. You know, because of the abuse and routinely neglect she experienced, first at home with her chaotic and poor birth family in Portsmouth, and then with her rich relatives in Mansfield. Edmund on the other hand will always be a disappointment for me, no amount of re-reading seems to change that much!

[@susiecollier6801]

I'm sorry if my comment sounded a little bit personal. I get strangely defensive when I hear people denouncing the character of Fanny Price, even if it is done constructively, as with your video, perhaps because she resonates so much with me; but I appreciate the fact that you did warn any would-be super-fans not to watch this video if they were apt to become offended by the views expressed therein and I also appreciate the merits and the structure of your video and how you have substantiated your opinions so thoroughly throughout and worked through the chapters in a chronological and coherent way. Also, the concept of rereading a previously disliked book and creating a video regarding your views on the second read is an extremely interesting one and reflects your open-minded approach to literature. I still cannot accede to the idea of Fanny being "boring", however, or the notion of the writing of a morally-grounded character being a bad thing or uninteresting to the reader; but perhaps that is more down to personal taste. It may be that some or most readers prefer to engage with characters with sharper edges or more extraverted facets to their personas than I do.

[@meghanthestorygirl4581]

I'm glad you reread Mansfield Park! I liked it more upon rereadings too. It's definitely an acquired taste 😆

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Definitely! I'm sure I'll read it again in the future, and maybe like it even more then.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Agreed. The Crawfords are a very interesting couple, it's like they are designed to be the complete counterparts of Edmund and Fanny. I think in modern terms both of the Crawfords would be perfect for some crazy holiday fling, but goodness me, I would not want to be married to either of them. While Edmund and Fanny are probably a perfect real-life couple, but in fiction they are deadly boring because the only possible way to generate some sort of trouble between them is to have Edmund be besotted with Mary Crawford.

[@meghanthestorygirl4581]

Love these insights!

[@StrangeSpark]

I loved this book because her flaws are different to the other heroines in her novels. I think the reason I hated Emma was because, to me, Fanny's character is the utter opposite. One has confidence and makes less effective interpersonal judgements while the other can read a room almost flawlessly, but lacks confidence.

[@TeaDeLuxe]

What stood out to me most is Mariah and Julia would both have fared well today versus then. Far fewer hangups if they defy their family, society would probably celebrate them for marrying anyone they wanted, and you know they would be Boss Babes now. Saying that, I don't have to like any of the characters, but I do like understanding why they are. I think Fanny is a bit mix of Elinor and Marianne, and really needed a friend like Elinor to shine.

[@doomantidote]

Looking forward to your in depth review at the end of the month! It's definitely one of my favourite Jane Austen novels. Although I really didn't like the 'theatre' section haha

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Thank you! Yeah, maybe that's more fun if you're actually familiar with the play itself.

[@lorrainetaylor9852]

This was such a great video! - you did the chapter by chapter so well - thank you.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@HamsavahiniVajraasthra]

Namaste😊I'll watch this video, as I read my copy- chapter by chapter💖👍Loved your hairstyle & your hair😊💖💖💖

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Thank you :D Hope you enjoy your reread too

[@mjloca]

I'm so happy that you enjoyed this re-read! I didn't hate it, but it's my least-favourite Austen, so now I hope to like it more next time :)

[@SpinstersLibrary]

It still holds that position for me and is still bottom of my personal ranking, but I do actually like it now.

[@vasundajay]

Thank you for pointing out that Henry Crawfords affection for Fanny also shows his vanity in that he thinks of her as someone he can have around who would meekly adore him. But truthfully, he likes to think no woman is safe from his charms. His speech on the Bertram sisters after confessing to his sister of his “love” for Fanny is testament to the fact that once he feels secure in the affections of the lady he has chosen to target, he finds her utterly worthless and hence not a great conquest. My own opinion of his character is that he is someone who likes the thrill of the chase as it eventually satisfies his vanity, albeit for a short time. Edmund has his faults as a lover, but, he does continue to make exceptions for Miss Crawford till his eyes are open. Let’s not forget that Elizabeth Bennet was often rude to Mr. Darcy, but his affection for her made him forgive her. I don’t understand why this quality is wrong with one, and wrong for the other, except that one fell in love with someone who he was clearly supposed to love. Also Henry not hearing the word “no”is all kinds of wrong.

[@spinstercatlady]

I think MP is a dislike for many Austen lovers bc Fanny is a bit of a prig and the book is a bit preachy at times, imo.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

I don't think her morals are much more strict than the other Austen heroines but the preachiness is definitely stronger

[@sueh3426]

I finished my first read of Mansfield Park a few days ago and like you was thoroughly bored with Fanny and Edmund. Loved your fun comments on each chapter. Would love to see more vlogs of this sort. Thank you

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Thank you! I've used this format in previous videos, including for a reread of Wuthering Heights and also reading Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier for the first time. I'm sure I'll have more videos like this in the future ☺️

[@sueh3426]

Spinster's Library Ooh. I will be going back to look for those ... don’t know how I could have missed them 🤦🏼‍♀️ 😊

[@americanbookdragon]

Oh my goodness, I cannot imagine rereading a hated book.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Haha, some books deserve a second chance!

[@Julia-lk8jn]

@@SpinstersLibrary That, and it's a very interesting experiment: you notice how your perception changes with time and experience. A recurring thing about Pride & Prejudice is readers saying "wow, I used to think Mrs Bennet is such a nutcase and Mr Bennet is the cool dad, but _he's_ pretty useless and lazy and he mocks his wive in front of their daughters, WT.? "

[@cminmd0041]

@@SpinstersLibrary I think MP is hard to like the first time because it is SO DIFFERENT from Austen's other work! Many Austen novels are fantasy but MP is much more real. Fanny is a true underdog. She is the neglected Cinderella with the emotional scars to prove it. It really proves how little people in general but READERS in particular hate underdogs. They want the magical hero that despite a lifetime of abuse, neglect and slights are magically strong, brave, charming and resourceful! One reason I like Fanny is yes, her judgement is always right, but not because she's some Mary Sue but because she uses her position as the forgotten chambermaid to OBSERVE everyone around her! Her judgement isn't magic, it's informed by the fact that everyone reveals their true selves because they've forgotten she's in the room.

[@jenadams2576]

I really enjoyed this video. It was a fun way to hear your thoughts on the book. I also do not like this book as much as the others (it is still Jane Austen, so I do enjoy it a lot.). Henry Crawford is my favorite character in this book. Looking forward to your review.

[@charlesiragui2473]

This novel seems to reflect a side of Jane Austen that is not as apparent in her other novels: her personal attachment to a staunch, Protestant Christianity. We see here that she was not only the daughter of a clergyman, she was a devout believer and defender of religion as a guide to English life. We have extended apologia in Mansfield Park on the importance and worthiness of an Anglican world and in this novel the Crawfords appear as the worldly attack on this sort of Anglicanism. Austen constructs a morality tale in which Faith Persecuted is personified in Fanny, Faith Challenged and Tempted is personified in Edmund and the Crawfords play the role of Fallen Angels, both attacking the Church and drawn to it. This is I believe the reason why Fanny is such a hard heroine, she is drawn to make a point: here is the Christian woman. Of course she is given a cross as a gift and whose chain shall carry it? The Crawford chain does not fit, only an unadorned Edmund chain will do. I am disappointed by the ending of the novel. I personally would have found the Fallen Angel story far more intriguing if Austen had let them be converted, subdued and won to goodness. The narrative feels like it is heading that direction, but then a mean-spirited turn comes and the bad kids are cast out. In punishing the Crawfords, we are left with a sad justice in which two hardened individuals were on the point of turning their lives in a more honest, generous direction and Austen sweeps in and crushes them. In other novels we see how people positively influence one another. Here, we could have seen how Henry and Mary learned honesty and generosity but taught Edmund and Fanny to be more joyful and playful. Wasn't that where the novel was heading? Mary clearly is not totally mercenary: she preferred the poorer son. Henry is clearly not a complete misogynist: he courts a woman whom he admires by doing good deeds. Why does Austen decide to destroy them? Spinster makes a good point in the Just Deserts ending. But does this make the novel less believable or is this a hard realism? My wish, for the bad kids to be softened into good kids, might be mere wishful thinking while Austen won't indulge in such fantasies. She seems to be saying that kids brought up in bad circumstances like the Crawfords are damaged goods: Redemption is improbable.

[@feelswriter]

Wow. Except for the "personal attachment" of JA, this is an interesting pov. I don't read literary criticism (yet) -- I now see this allegorical take must be a part of the discussion over the centuries. But as we fortunately have Austen's other novels, surely we can see that she embodies various narrative viewpoints, but is herself a multifaceted intelligence.

[@charlesiragui2473]

@@feelswriter Fair point that the novels may not reflect her own beliefs. But I find it odd that she would write a kind of culture war novel from one side of that conflict without sharing that point of view.

[@AuntLoopy123]

I get your argument that Fanny is too perfect a judge of character. But she has a real, honest, true-to-life reason to be so. She is IGNORED. Almost everyone around her treats her like a servant, only noticing her when they want to use her for something. As such, she has more opportunity than any of Jane Austen's other heroines to OBSERVE. People let down their guards around her, because they forget she is even there. Her quietness, as well as her station, allows her to see almost perfectly, which cannot be said for any of the others. All of Jane Austen's other heroines, including Anne Elliott, are valued, respected, and noticed by most of the rest of their respective casts. As such, people wear their masks around them. People keep their guards up. People tell their lies. Nobody BOTHERS to lie around Fanny. She's "just Fanny." She's part of the landscape, and who keeps their mask up and tells lies to a shrub? Nobody. It's not that she has some sort of super-power to see clearly. It's that she is in a unique position to be shown the truth that others cannot see. Once you consider that, you may change your opinion of her. Consider, for example, the Bridgerton novels, ... SPOILERS ... and how Lady Whistledown causes such a stir, because she KNOWS so much. And everyone is wondering who she could possibly be, only to discover that she was right under their noses the whole time. In plain sight, but completely unnoticed, because she's quiet and put upon, even by her own mother and sisters. NOBODY seems to pay her any attention, except Eloise and Colin. It makes sense that way. And it takes so much courage, as well as support from the man she loves, before she comes out and stands up for herself, in her true form, and not in the form of Lady Whistledown. Fanny Price is not perfect, with a super power ability to see beyond lies. She is an imperfect person, who allows her self to be constantly put in the position of a simple servant, rather than as the relation she is, the LADY she is, with the right to be treated as such. It is not until she stands upon that right that she finally seen by the family, at large. And never by Mrs. Norris, who always hated and resented her, because Mrs. Norris had promised to take care of her, and then never did, and feels guilty about it, so she hates her victim, because of it. But that's another debate.

[@hempenasphalt1587]

I love this book and I love Fanny Price, and your walk through of the book is quite entertaining.

[@jmarie9997]

I get Fanny is limited by her circumstances. That being said, I don't enjoy reading an entire book about a kicked puppy. And Edmund seems to have settled for Fanny on the rebound.

[@LuminousLibro]

This is also my least favorite, but I haven't read it for 20 years. I'm going to reread it this year for Jane Austen July, and I think I will change my opinion of it, and maybe enjoy it. Last year I reread Northanger Abbey, which used to be my least favorite, and I gained a new appreciation for it. Maybe the same thing will happen for Mansfield Park? I love to hear your detailed thoughts, and have to agree that the book has some problems.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

I really liked Northanger Abbey the first time but haven't reread it yet (maybe next year in July?). Hope you enjoy your reread of Mansfield Park!

[@redforrori]

I love that you reread this book and took us with you on the ride :D Thanks!

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Thank you :)

[@trishroscoe8273]

Thanks. I just finished it and thought it was really boring I had sympathized with Fanny after being a child taken from her family especially with her being an obvious introvert. I was so glad she stood her ground and didn't marry Crawford. I also wasn't invested in Fanny's sister. I did like how mrs B was a lazy rich women. I probably won't reread but I liked hearing your opinions on it!

[@miashinbrot8388]

It was especially interesting to me to hear your reactions, as I'd just finished rereading Mansfield Park. I ended up actually *throwing the book away* -- very, very rare for me -- mostly because it had been dropped in the water at one point and dried out, and now it smells strongly of mildew. However, I secondarily wanted to throw it out because I realized I long ago internalized harmfully much of Fanny Price's attitudes toward herself -- underserving, worthless, not to be loved.

[@aikikaname6508]

Mansfield park is always going to be the least timeless and harder to access because so much of the conflict centers around a play it really relies on its readers knowing very well to understand the conflict. To a modern reader unfamiliar with lovers vows, it just seems like Fanny is glowering and being priggish over a play that (we can infer) is more salacious than a Regency lady is used to. It wasn’t till I listened to Dr Octavian video breaking down the stage directions I got exactly how bad it was. It’s also the most miserable. In P&P, it’s pretty lighthearted and only the comic relief - Mrs Benett - seems to truly grasp how bad the girls situations are with the threat of the entail. Lydia got a happier ending than even most 21st century teen girls in a similar situation end up with. With Emma her harm to Harriet is quickly fixed. But here, it’s hundreds of pages of Fanny passively being trodden on and though it may be more realistic, it’s not fun. Even with the 1950 Cinderella you get moments of the heroine advocating for herself, fighting to go to the ball, and being acknowledged for her kindness. Here it’s lots of pages of Fanny getting stepped on until the very end

[@kumaridesilva3992]

I think the main character is actually the uncle because he is the person with the chance to change and he makes quite a journey in a very nuanced way. On one side of the Baron is his 2nd son (so good he's a hypocritical prig), then Fanny - so good she's boring. Then the neutral character in his wife, neither good or bad but vapid. Also the older sister's husband. On the far end of evil is Mrs Norris, who the Baron has been indulging all his life - until the end of the book when he really makes a change. The other young characters all fall out along this line from very good to very bad. The Baron is pretty bad to get his $$ from his slave plantation, but he's apparently not irredeemable. I would say William is probably the most interesting of the "good" characters

[@tillysshelf]

I love that you seem so determined to criticise this book and you're constantly a little put out by the quality of the characters and the themes shining through. It's Jane Austen, why were you so surprised? I didn't love MP on the first read either but it benefits so much from a second chance.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

I wouldn't say I was determined to criticise, but of course my second reading was very much influenced by my first reading. Which I absolutely hated. So I didn't go into this expecting to be wowed... and I wasn't wowed, but I gained a new appreciation for this novel.

[@3bks]

that's such a good idea i'll make this too

[@nobody8328]

Also, Fanny is a decent judge of character by the end of the novel, because she misjudged her adoptive family so badly. She learned the hard way not to take people at face value.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Huh? I think she had a pretty clear view of her adoptive family. She probably idialized her birth home a bit because of the distance, but I don't remember her ever thinking that her Aunt Bertram was a bad person, or her Aunt Norris a nice one. I know that when her moving in with Aunt Norris is mentioned she's pretty clear about the fact that she can't love her.

[@annabelmeir1244]

Do you see Fanny as trapped?

[@AnLi84]

I've read and did not finish "Mansfield Park" in the beginning of the year. I disliked every character in this book and I mostly hated the ending because of the fake happy ending, at least that is what it is for me...I actually can't see myself starting this book in the near future again. It's sad it was my last Austen novel left and my feeling I wouldn't like it at all was right. Maybe because I've seen a film adaptation before and didn't enjoy that either. So I'm rereading "Pride and Prejudice" right now and than "Emma" and "Persuasion" will follow. :)

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Hope you enjoy rereading those! I've only read Persuasion once so far, but already planning to reread that next year in July

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Hah. I've seen a few film adaptations and all but one deserve to be shot. And I agree with you, the happy ending feels a bit fake.

[@Plasticplas1]

I usually find Austen more enjoyable with rereads. Its better when you know the characters a bit already.

[@einahsirro1488]

Fanny is mostly an observer: basically just a floating pair of eyes with a few basic reactions (disapproval, jealousy, fright, gratitude)

[@katiejlumsden]

I adored this video :D

[@sashaborokowski8029]

I realized that I am somewhat more forgiving of Edmund Bertram in his blindness to Mary Crawford. I’ve watched more than one of my brothers get wrapped up in a woman who was so obviously using them (not Mary Crawford, she wasn’t a user); and its always sad because you know that pain is the only way they’ll get over her. It really speaks to the power that women can have over men for good or bad. A woman really can make or break a man.

[@UncleMo77]

I have read Mansfield Park about 20 times in the past and have always rated her as the third most likeablea

[@katiemartin9268]

i always loved this book as a sort of navigation of societal complacency and her battle with it in her own small part in the world.

[@larrymustvedt2217]

Did you know that it's Fanny Price who's writing the book, and at the end Edmond says that he'll help her get published, but what will you call it? Fanny's listening to conversations unobserved by the other characters and writing it all down. Only a few times she actually is caught, like when she walks in on the guy who just asked her to marry him. Things are starting, in a dramatic way, to happen to her more directly. She didn't trust crawford. Fanny is the narrator. In the movie these things are made much clearer in the movie, FYI. And of course the real narrator is Austen. The book is about the difference between the novel and the drama/the play. Or the novel versus the drama. Fanny judges everyone right because she is Jane Austen writing a book in the persona of Fanny Price. When Edmond says he loves her, she says "I know". because Jane Austen is the author or narrator. I'm sure you like the scenes without Fanny because you get a better sense of Jane Austen. Austen I thing knows this and diliberately keeps Fanny's presense in the novel to a minimun. That quote of Fanny you read just before Fanny goes back to Portsmouth, is Jane Austen speaking through Fanny. It reminds me of the fist sentence of Pride and Predudice. So Fanny Price is Jane Austen and Edmond is Austen's brother Henry, who in real life does help his sister publish her books. In fact, he does all the negociations with the publishers. Fanny and Edmond do not actually get married at the end of the novel. Well, I liked you reading of Mansfield Park.

[@nazifaradi6741]

I really want to tell that Edmund Betram is the least favorite lead character.

[@lilith3953]

100%

[@Mistressrichards]

It’s my feeling that if you are pious, reflective and intuitive then reading people’s characters wouldn’t be difficult. However she does have a bland external personality, it would be nice if we had more of her internal dialogue.

[@Julia-lk8jn]

Are you referring to the movies? The book is full to bursting of Fanny's inner dialogue, her fears and questioning her own actions and hurting, or being shocked about her birth family, or in suspense or even angry about Edmund being a fool about Mary Crawford.

[@susiecollier6801]

I cannot disagree with you more. Fanny Price is far from being "dull", in my opinion, and she is not just meek and mild and quiet. She is an extremely strong character; in fact, I believe, the strongest of all the Austen heroines in that she has to remain dutiful and steadfastly serve her relatives where she might be inclined to react or rebel against some of the challenges and unreasonable requests that face her. She is dignified and always acts with decorum, and has an unswerving loyalty to her own infallible moral principles, and I do not view her as being moralistic or sanctimonious, because her words are always backed up by actions. This is unlike her cousin and love interest Edmund, whose own fickleness and infatuation leads him to take part in the play alongside Mary Crawford, despite having previously publicly denouncing it. How anyone can dislike a character for being moral and upstanding I cannot and do not want to comprehend. If more people in today's society were like Fanny Price, then this world would be a better place. As for the charge of being "too perfect", firstly, that's inaccurate; if Fanny Price were completely without fault, she wouldn't even feel any hatred towards Mary Crawford; and, secondly, what's wrong with having a role model to emulate anyway? Regarding the ending and your objection to the "justice" meted out to the principal characters, although I agree that this might not completely reflect real life or realistic situations, if you could engineer an ending in a piece of literature where every character gets what they deserve, wouldn't you? To me, this is the beauty of Mansfield Park.

[@dunyazade]

I hated the ending, I remember.

[@bebly9797]

Are you italian? I am! From where is your family?

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Both my parents are from Calabria ☺️

[@bebly9797]

@@SpinstersLibrary I am from Marche🤗 About MP I agree with you that fanny and edmund are boring and the ending is rushed, but that's the point: maybe JA didn't want to write a love story! A lot of scholars have argued about what JA wanted to say, about the meaning of this enigmatic novel and what is hidden behind the surface: in the end MP is the double of a slave plantation! I remenber Nina Auerbach and Edward Said writing about it and if you read italian I suggest you Beatrice Battaglia.

[@jezpin3638]

I think Fanny is a more sympathetic character if you look at her as abuse and neglected instead of just being naturally quiet. I dont think she actually has any character development, she was being trained as an unpaid domestic servant (slave) she was then a girl who was so interested in a slave's views about his slave business and then became the wife of a victor that who berates a woman who suggested forgiveing his fallen sister. I think we are supposed to hate Fanny for becoming one of these horrible people.

[@beth5870]

I just read a fanfic of Mansfield Park in which Fanny ends up with Henry. I liked it so much better than Fanny ending up with Edmund. archiveofourown.org/works/279556?view_adult=true&view_full_work=true

[@Julia-lk8jn]

It's certainly a more dramatic pairing- reformed super-rich charming rake and the sweet innocent damsel, so great material to _start off_ a story, but to end it? Henry Crawford as JA wrote him would have been a terrible match for Fanny. She would be caught between being hurt by his selfish and spoiled behavior, and not wanting to be a nagging wife. And if Henry Crawford can't be faithful when he's still in that "I'm trying to prove myself worthy" phase, then why would he be when Fanny is married to him and has literally no way of getting out of that marriage? (Short of pushing him down the stairs, and that would be beyond Out Of Character.) And as for the usual "oh but the right girl will bring out the good in him" ? He seduced Maria Rushford née Bertram for no better reason than vanity and utterly ruined her life. He's neither safe for a soft-spoken, timid, good-hearted wife after that, he's also not worth her.

[@beth5870]

@@Julia-lk8jn, the author of fanfic addresses these concerns very well. I was surprised at how well I liked it, andI was never a big fan of Henry Crawford.

[@maryhamric]

I disliked MP. I felt like it dragged so much. I didn't like Edmund. Fanny was exasperating and I was mad that I knew all of Fanny's thoughts, but in Chapter 48...I didn't get to feel how she felt when Edmund fell in love with her!! GRRRRRR. I did recognize that Fanny was abused, but I wanted her to recognize that she was. I didn't feel she realized that and wanted her to understand that. I'll give it a re-read but meh. I'd rather re-read my favorite, Emma.

[@EvBarney]

I've always liked Mansfield Park, though it is a bit preachy. Its Persuasion that makes me cringe.

[@naomisbookshelf]

I dislike Mr Knightley for the same reason you dislike Fanny. He is never wrong! It is interesting that I like her but not him when they have the same qualities.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Yeah his schoolmaster type manner and perfect morals make him a rather unlikeable character.

[@schoo9256]

I have to disagree with you both--Mr Knightley does get things wrong! He assumes Harriet Smith is a brainless benign bimbo who isn't worth Robert Martin's time, and has to change his tune when he dances with her and realises she might be an easily influenced person, but she is also "an unpretending, single-minded, artless girl", a good person with a very kind heart, a great capacity for devotion, and is incapable of pretending to be something she's not. He admits he's wrong. He also lets his dislike of Frank Churchill be blown up to an unreasonable level because he's jealous of Emma's feelings towards him. There are plenty of reasons to condemn Frank--but for all his sense of right and wrong behaviour, and no matter how right he might be in condemning them, Mr Knightley is super ready to use those as excuses to justify his existing dislike. From this we can see Mr Knightley is actually quite ready to be prejudiced against people he hasn't met yet if they pose a potential threat to his happiness or to the happiness of people he loves, and he gets sanctimonious because he often *is* right about people and it goes to his head. The schoolmaster bit is a flaw as well--"I have blamed you and lectured you and you have borne it as no other woman in England would have borne it". People often see this as Emma's virtue for being able to stand the critique the perfect man gives her--i think there is a little bit of that here. But he also knows he crosses the line and Emma not only will take constructive criticism without cracking (even if she disagrees with it) but she also gives as good as she gets and puts up with his lectures and bouts of priggishness when nobody else would. And boy does he know it. In summary he is a bit more like his grumpy brother John than we tend to give him credit for. Definitely a flawed guy. And i love him for it.

[@staffanlindstrom576]

@@schoo9256 You got it right.

[@staffanlindstrom576]

You got it wrong.

[@veramae4098]

In this case ... the movie is better than the novel. At least as storytelling, though much of the subtle social commentary is eliminated.

[@izabelbrekilien9658]

I didn't like Mansfield park ! Phew, it feels good to hear someone who, finally, don't think it's her best novel. Mrs Ferris was my favourite in there, I loved to hate her, and the Crawfords - the villains are the best. Fortunately, because yes, Fanny is dull and prim and proper and I hate her. Edmund too. Oh, and I liked Mrs Bertram in the background, half asleep on her sofa, her heart "almost" fluttering when she sees her husband for the first time in months !

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Yes, she is an underrated character in this novel. I wish I had her chill 😂

[@kevinrussell1144]

THANKS bunches!! My previous impression aligned with yours; Mansfield Park is the weakest and least interesting of the Austen novels. I was considering a reread, wondering if I had been too severe in my rating. After watching your video, I have NO intention of trying it again. I'll read Persuasion for the second time instead. I love your voice and accent, and hope the move is working out.

[@angelaluz405]

Edmund may be my least favorite character in all of Austen, he's definitely my least favorite in this book. I basically wish the book were about the Crawfrods, because they are the most interesting characters in the novel.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

It would have been a really interesting novel if it had focused on Mary as the heroine

[@melenatorr]

@@SpinstersLibrary Mary has been a heroine of an Austen novel: she has been Emma Woodhouse; and she has been an aspect of Elizabeth Bennet. Mary is the heroine as seen from the viewpoint of another type of heroine. I made an observation several years ago, to an online Austen group, that Mary and Fanny are very much two sides of one coin - their backgrounds mirror and contrast in that they are both from broken, damaged families; they both have a male family figure of whom they are very fond; they are both attracted to the same man; they are both physically small and light, contrasting with Maria and Julia. Mary evolves in her viewpoint and treatment of Fanny, who is not able, due to her circumstances and position, to return the evolving viewpoint. The two characters, and how they intertwine, are more complicated and rich than a first reading might show, and I like them both.

[@charlesiragui2473]

@@SpinstersLibrary I don't see how Mary, with such mercenary tendencies, could have passed muster as a heroine with Jane Austen. She's interesting because Austen made her interesting but she would never elevate her. Isn't it a mark of great writers that even characters they don't like are compelling and evoke compassion? I've heard it said that Tolstoy wanted to hate Anna Karenina but couldn't manage it.

[@vmalarvili9400]

I neither hate nor love it. It's not my business to love or hate a novel. I read and get carried away by the actions. I don't apply my values on the novel while reading it. The actions are according to the customs and manners of the day, and how the novelist enables us to see the characters in the actions. To love or hate the actions and the actors, one must see them from one's current position i.e. to see the past depicted in the novel from now, that too, from one's own country and the society one lives in. I like all, and sympathize with some, because this novel shows them with most imperfections. Unlike in her other novels, here, there is no character which is morally good, including Fanny Price and Edmund. Jane Austen is true to the salt of being a novelist in this novel. In some of her other novels, she depicts the characters somewhat artificially. Here she is at her natural ease. I place the novel as the best among hers as it is the least artificial. In the last Chapter, she herself is astonished to look back how imperfect the characters in their moral view of the world and their own lives. We are ultimately imperfect human beings in an imperfect world, and we have to live with this overwhelming and uncontrollable imperfections just like we have to live with the Corona virus for ever.

[@iagozabibha]

Do not watch this novel... 0:49

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Well spotted 😅

[@delmar9972]

Edmund deserves a slap and Fanny needs to stop being shy and ask for respect from that horrible Aunt of Hers.

[@SpinstersLibrary]

Haha can you imagine if she had given him a slap

[@GitanAnimex]

but can she do it?? is she ask for respect do you think aunt norris woudl say oohh im sorry i highly doub it

[@chloemaxwell2628]

Jane Austen is my favourite author, but this is a horrible book. I did not care one iota about anyone in this novel. Fanny is as dull as dishwater, and Edmund is a prig. I've read it twice as well, because I thought I might be missing something, but I still disliked the book.