Spirit Island: Red's Final Tier List: Part 10: UPDATED 9/2/2024

[@UltraSuperGamer]

Petition to rename F-tier to S-tier, short for “Shadows and Sunshine” 😂

[@ragnar3434]

Big wins for my boy amorphous today, knew they could do it

[@quinchotopic]

Thanks for putting this tier list up! I've seen so many other inexplicable tier lists online, this made me feel a little bit saner. Of course, I do have quite a few quibbles with yours, but the two I'm most confident in are I think you have Downpour and Behemoth too low. I feel like Downpour's insane action economy matches the breaking tier requirement you talk about in the video, and as you partly mention later, the spirit has no bad match-ups, is strong at all stages of the game, and can draft to deal with any particular problem. That sounds to me like it should add up to an X tier spirit. For Behemoth, I feel you undervalue him because you gravitate towards the more complex spirits, and I think he's a very straightforward spirit (the most complicated thing about him is to just never take his g3 which is so interesting, but worse than double growing). His damage starts high and only gets higher, and while he doesn't reach the ludicrous amounts of damage of say Thunderspeaker or Serpent, the fact that he does it every turn is enough to put him in high A tier. I think his only bad match-ups are Russia and Habsburg Nomads, but I think they're fairly winnable. I haven't tried those since I usually focus on playing spirits into their good match-ups. Would love to see you try those two spirits some more and see if it changes your mind!

[@RedReVenge007]

Having great matchups into all adversaries isn't a necessary criteria for X tier. Green for instance has some weak matchups, but it's ability to break the game outweighs that. Some Spirits get placed into tiers, I begin to compare them to neighboring Spirits. Such as, is Downpour better than Gaze? Would I take Downpour over Gaze on a team comp? How many team comps can Downpour be taken than Gaze cannot? Stuff like this. Overall, I think Downpour is weaker than both Starlight and Many Minds. If I have Downpour as X tier, then both Starlight and MM would need to be moved up a tier. There is chatter about Starlight making it into X tier, but none about Many Minds. I've played a lot of Behemoth during playtesting as well as now. I think the Spirit is pretty powerful and it might be A tier. I need to experiment with more builds!

[@rampant1apart]

I feel like Finders can definitely be in S. The amount of problems I've solved for myself and for teammates with a well timed teleport is very high and stays consistently relevant in my experience. Range and placement is such an integral part of this game and being able to cheat that in anyway has paid off with almost any team comp I've been in. For context, most of my experience is in 4 player games with friends familiar with how I play, if that is relevant..

[@TheBlueFlame112]

Finder is for sure my top 3. She is so amazing. The cool character designs make some people like some while others wont. I also feel like he might be a bit biased cause he plays mostly solo, compared to me who is only playing it 3+. Finder gets a lot of value there

[@peterxu5043]

tier list is wonderful guide. and during the play can win with X tier spirits even players seldom combo. Good shortcut and less communication

[@Rattler21]

ANOTHA DUB FOR DA NOURISHING ENJOYERS WE JUST DON'T STOP

[@Patricia_Taxxon]

shadows & sunshine having a girl's night in the F tier

[@JCaesar007]

I'm glad to see my boy Intensify get the recognition it deserves.

[@guahguahmonster]

I saw at 5:04 that one of the reasons Roots and Keeper moved below Downpour and Relentless Gaze was because they had some weak matchups (Sweden, Habsburg Mining) Then we look at the new entries, where 12:37 says Nourishing decimates every adversary except for England and is still great against England, and 13:23 says Intensify is great into every adversary. I wonder if that means we might eventually see Nourishing and Intensify move above Roots and Keeper, or if there's some other reason besides matchups that keeps them back.

[@AndreasVNesje]

Finder is a tricky one. It's been growing on me, for sure. It does so amazingly in certain spirit pairings, especially if it gets a little bit of support (e.g. energy for going full bottom track) - but high A tier seems correct, i think.

[@tubebrocoli]

i've been really enjoying playing voice lately, starting a bit slower with two G3s, getting a ton of minor powers in the process, and the energy and air that G3 gives makes it viable to do that and keep hitting 2 left innate tiers consistently, then rushing 4 plays with G2 as much as possible (i have to reclaim once usually, draft almost anything with air)

[@benedict1184]

Hi! I want to share some thoughts and my experince on some of the spirits of this video. I play mainly in a group of 2 people. We've defeaetd all the adversaries at lvl 6 and have just completed 7th wave versus lv6 Sweden (with new spirits on each wave which resulted in 14 spirits used). I am quite confused with D tier for Immense Lightening. Actually I rate it at A/S tier. Though this spirit needs a few time to speed up (which results in rescuing 2 areas in firs 2 turns -- with both times second growth and 4+4 energy before round three with 3-6 energy spent) from the start of turn three it starts dominating the boards with major powers with elemental threshold covered and that can be fastened by innate obility for 1 wind. So it results in 2-2-1-1-2 growth in fisrt 5 rounds with 2 major powers on hand. I was also quite condused with Ocean's C tier. In 2-player games it is always at least A tier - it wipes all (or almost all) coastlines, gathers a lot of energy and is able to do impact on inland areas. The 7th wave in our game was completed with Ocean-Volcano pair where Ocean spent 18 energy on victory turn (though I gave 6 with Exaltation of Molten Stone + Powerstorm) for double Fire and Flood + minor powers. On the other hand I can't say anything about 6-player ocean. But its definately devastating in 2-3 player games.

[@RedReVenge007]

My rough summary: X tier Spirits are Spirits that excel at everything in Spirit Island and break the fundamentals of the game. For instance, Fractured days allows Spirits to view the Invader deck, repeat cards, delay reclaims. Gain extra plays which can enable thresholds. Green has Gift of Proliferation, Stone ignores the main loss condition, etc. S tier Spirits are Spirits that excel at everything in SI, but don't fundamentally break the game. Think good matchups, loads of support, rarely taking more than 3 blight, play well into double adversary games. A tier Spirits are Spirits that are great Spirits, but generally are missing a key component. Think maybe a bad, or lack of Support, or vulnerable to a specific edge case. I don't think Immense fits into any of these categories based on the definition. When I compare Immense Lightning to Spirits in these categories, I think it's far weaker... What happens when Immense misses on its first major draft? How is Immense able to maintain tempo against various adversaries? In my experience, Immense relies heavily on its first major draft. When it hits, it feels ok, when it misses, it crashes and burns. Ocean power is going to vary based on player count. It excels quite well in 2 and 3 player games. I'd say around A-B tier. But once you get to 4-5-6 player games, the energy economy takes a hit immensely. It is also vulnerable to big edge cases think HLS inland town land coming up T1 and T3. You have no solution to this land which means 3 loss conditions. Or think about bad Sweden explores like Board B Jungle initial. There are too many situations where Ocean is the weak link.

[@ClubbingSealCub]

I would argue fractured deserves its own tier. Sure, all the spirits in X tier break the game, but fractured breaks the game multiple ways at the same time. The amount of crazy stuff you can do on that spirit is insane. Gift of proliferation is good, but is it slip 3 times in a turn while playing a treshholded major that was sitting there in my days that I've been planning around since turn 1 good?

[@EsperSpirit]

I think it's fine if you take required player skill into account. Gift of proliferation will always be good, even if a novice player uses it. But Fractured requires not only skill to pilot the complex spirit but also skill and knowledge to form and execute a plan around the power cards you get to choose from. Personally I can do fine with Fractured but I'm not "breaking the game in half" with it just yet.

[@ClubbingSealCub]

@@EsperSpirit skill required shouldn't be contemplated when making a tier list like this - yes, you need to be good and get in a lot of fractured games, but that doesn't change the spirit's power. The average player will not do the things red does with it, but if they play enough, eventually they will.

[@EsperSpirit]

@@ClubbingSealCub It's not only skill but also how consistently a game breaking strategy is available. Again Gift of Proliferation is only one way to break the game but it's always available and has no external factors. Fractured has many ways to break the game but not all of them are available all the time (e. g. some require certain power cards which aren't guaranteed). All in all Fractured is the most broken spirit but X-Tier is already specific enough, I don't think another tier is warranted or would improve the tier list (other tier lists use S for broken things, so this one already has an extra one just for that)

[@andrewplassard4278]

Interesting to see the movement on bringer. The combo seems very hard to set up. Love enticing though. Would be interesting to see some multi spirit gameplay.

[@nitrorev]

I haven't had a chance to really get many games with the Bringer aspects since I'm more of a digital player but Violence had me curious enough to fire up TTS. I have a hard time imagining it being worse than Enticing. Not only does it plow through the fear deck way faster (obviously) but the 4 card plays actually allow it to be a minor power user on top of having the flexibility to tech into majors while the other 2 versions of Bringer MUST aim for majors inherently since they're basically stuck at 2 plays. Those extra plays also make it easier for Violence to hit those major thresholds if you can find some cheap cards with damage/destroy. Veil the Night's Hunt is perfect element and though it does damage, it can also just be used for fast Dahan movement and that damage means it's part of your extra plays. Quicken the Earth's Struggles is almost always used defensively, but it has that damage option so boom, extra play, not to mention it's moon animal. Here's a fun one, Twilight Fog Brings Madness. That 1 damage it deals to Dahan is actually a positive here. On element card at zero cost and it's not one of your normal plays.

[@RedReVenge007]

That's what we thought too. But then we proceeded to fall into the combo 3 straight games. Granted we had Fractured in all 3 games, but still.

[@ClubbingSealCub]

fractured is so powerful his power spills over to other spirits

[@BeanLord69]

So glad one of Earth’s aspects is up there. Earth was the very first spirit I played in SI and it has a special place in my heart. Are you going to showcase Nourishing once you’re done with Lure?

[@cyaanure2425]

Mentor/Memory is the perfect representation of C tier, here to be awesome fun combo

[@maxsims1520]

Have you seen lonks breath of darkness cheese build? Id be interested to hear your thoughts on it if so.

[@RedReVenge007]

I'm aware of the build. It's heavily tempo based and necessary into some matchups.

[@EsperSpirit]

Could you give me a link or direction where to find that build?

[@corinnacohn7389]

I’m here for the Resilience promotion!! 😜

[@Vietnaflip]

Hi Red, love the videos, keep it up! Random question for ya: if shadows flicker were to get all of his aspects and his base ability simultaneously, where do you think he would end up in the tier list?

[@ZxScepter]

Hello! Great tier list 😊 Do you happen to have a screenshot of your tier list or a text version? I tried screenshotting parts of your video but it's not the clearest, sadly

[@RedReVenge007]

@@ZxScepter in the community post I have a list of

[@guahguahmonster]

I have noticed one detail which is that in the text version of the tier list shown at 20:20, Heart of the Wildfire is at 57 and Immense Lightning's Swift Strike is at 58. However, in the image form shown at 20:10 (along with many other times), the two are swapped so that Wildfire is at 58 and Immense Lightning is at 57. I won't worry about this too much though because a one-position difference probably doesn't mean too much.

[@greatbrawler5360]

I still think Shadows (reach) is the best spirit for a solo, base game (Without adversary abd without scenarios). I once won in the fast phase of turn 3.

[@RemcoHaarlem]

Where would you rate the Apocrypha Spirits; Spreading Rot Renews the Earth and Covets Gleaming Shards of Earth?

[@RedReVenge007]

@@RemcoHaarlem C tier

[@brianqi3445]

It's heeeeere time to watch at 12 in the morning

[@pickcollins9910]

Hey quick question. How did you manage to pull up the image of the spirit board at 3:00? Been trying to figure that out so I don’t have to clone the spirit board and flip it over for a while now.

[@CollieDaze]

Hi, are their links to pictures of the tier list or excel? I can’t seem to find anywhere. Thanks!

[@RedReVenge007]

@@CollieDaze it’s listed under community tab!

[@CollieDaze]

Tysm 😭🙌

[@patfire12345]

What kind of metrics do you track when collecting data points in a given game? Love the updates to the tier list!

[@RedReVenge007]

Well I have my normal metrics talked about in Video 1 of the series. It's more of a collaboration between players. I have a private discord where we discuss the changes and I ask feedback from players.

[@peterxu5043]

each spirit feels have big or tiny flaws. Played keeper a lot and have to say it needs early defend or early energy in early turn and when you passed the "struggling" turn, the keeper is stronger and stronger and have energy draft and play majors. The defense is what I felt terrible in solo test. With support of other aggressive spirits and keeper may more easily pass the early defense turns

[@RedReVenge007]

The odds of finding a defend on a single draft is 50%. Keeper has 3 drafts before the first ravage. So the odds of missing is 1/8. Keeper's biggest weakness is limited board options. Some boards feel terrible.

[@EAtheatreguy]

What do you mean by "cast down" when you're talking about stone?

[@RedReVenge007]

@@EAtheatreguy cast Down kills an entire land. That’s what Stones right innate does.

[@tepidgoose]

Few comments on my 3 boys: - I agree with everything you said re. Starlight, but you missed one key point. The insane major builds it can have. You have the ability to go into very early loops thresholding a broken major and take over the game. That allows it to take on 6/6 better than most spirits. X tier. - Finder can do so much for other spirits. It's power can be easily S-tier depending on it's teammates, but it can struggle with it's own board, which keeps it's position correct imo. - I'm really surprised you still don't have Volcano S tier. It doesn't have a bad matchup (England isn't great, but its very winnable), yet you're talking about Roots & Keeper with *multiple* bad matchups. Volcano can beat 6/6 true solo, can Keeper & Roots?? Volcano is comfortably one of the strongest spirits - I liken it to Earthquake in power level - and it's only behind Stone and maybe Starlight / HV in solo 6/6 capability... However, it is also a massively risky spirit, and gets edged cased more than most. So that does keep it out of X tier, no question. With all this, depending on how much you might agree... That feels worthy of conversation in the video at the very least!! Thanks for the vid, always love these tier discussions

[@RedReVenge007]

Being able to do 6/6s isn't a defining component of the list. The lists target is looking at difficulty 10-12. If a Spirit is able to do some 6/6 content, that is seen as a highlight. Throwing a major power T3-4 and thresholding it isn't a component of X tier spirits. Honestly, I think this is just standard major power builds for Spirits. Starlight's strengths are it's a very safe Spirit with defensive tools and drafts. My definition for 'weak' matchup is going to differ from most players. Root's "weakest" matchup is better than Volcano's worst matchups. I'd rather play Roots vs Sweden 6 than Volcano into England or Habsburg. One another note, matchups are only one component when placing Spirits on the list. Volcano has several flaws which prevent it from being S tier. Such as: Limited board selection, limited major power pool, lack of Dahan events, vulnerable to edge case events, weak to blighted effects, low ability to grow and support other boards. I think Volcano is the perfect model of a Spirit that belongs in A tier. It's a Spirit with more strengths than weaknesses.

[@tepidgoose]

@@RedReVenge007 Thanks for the detailed inputs. I think Starlight does far crazier major things than most others, but I get your point about consistency and defensive strength for sure. Volcano points are fair. I do agree with all, apart from the major limitations. There's a handful you are prohibited from playing, but his +1 range gives him access to almost every major in some capacity. I tend to play him more as a "major minor" spirit, i.e. throwing them around carefree without worrying about thresholding. I still have him in S, but your arguments for A (as you define it) make complete sense.

[@mattstebbins7033]

What 5 spirits do you just find the most enjoyable to play in a general sense

[@RedReVenge007]

@@mattstebbins7033 m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/nIqkaKFpZrN2nKs Right now - Roots - Intensify Memory - Fractured Days - Many Minds - Stone’s Unyielding Defiance

[@mattstebbins7033]

@@RedReVenge007 nice! I think intensify is the next guy I've been wanting to try out. Roots I just need to get better with only played a couple times. Minds is tons of fun.

[@RedReVenge007]

@@mattstebbins7033 intensify is probably my favorite spirit right now.

[@mattstebbins7033]

@@RedReVenge007 I will just have to watch the guide a few times before I end up playing him, but pretty excited that he seems that fun

[@nitrorev]

Too excited to wait until tomorrow, eh? 😂

[@RedReVenge007]

@@nitrorev I realized I need to put out the fractured videos before Lure comes out 😬

[@thomashantgin5124]

@@RedReVenge007when does lure come out

[@nitrorev]

@@thomashantgin5124 September 4th. Get Hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@dylogysminter]

Some food for thought from top to bottom. Me and my playgroup has finder in S Tier definitely. If you draft a completely random team Finder will most likely have someone with which they can combo absurdly. Yes it might not be as consistant if you specifically take bad partners, but random teams are most of the time enough that finder will make the game way way easier. You will not always solve your own problems but you will give to the team so much more then solving your problems that they will gladly do it. I think Might might deserve a spot on B tier. Its not only starlight that is great with might. Any spirit that can give card plays or card gains instantly solves mights problems. But there are more things that can break the game when repeated. But its a tough call. And the last thing is Darkfire sould definitely be way way higher up. I only use darkfire in high player count games like 4+, but it can way more then carry its weight. You will just have to think outside the box(your board). There are so many situations where Darkfire can solve 10-12 lands from the mid game on its ridiculous. And if you draft a nice major you can sometimes care for 1 more land of each type. So a smooth 16 lands. This number drops obviously as soon as invader stage 3 comes in, but thats true for every spirit. P.S. its so nice to finally see intensify up there. I have been telling people how strong intesnify is from 2-3 weeks after NI dropped and even tried to tell you(on reddit or here) but everyone was laughing and told me i am crazy. Well well how the tables have turned lol... Thx for showing everyone and yourself that their initial assessment was wrong. I don't belive its easy to go back on your opinion that you have voiced once and reassess everything. Great work thx for posting these.

[@IamJFD]

Why final u can keep on updating it. Its fine., we learn new things every game/every few games. Not sure how true is that statement for you, but at least for me and my friends. Also its nice Downpour went up, I love that spirit and he is top tier in terms of breaking the gamd, be it abnormal fear, abnormal damage or defense.

[@RedReVenge007]

The tier list had monthly updates for ~2 years of time. When I made the Final Tier list tag, I planned for that to be the end of the series. However, the tier list still continues to be modified. The community has asked for me to put out updates, so here I am. I decide to leave the Final tag as it may be my last Tier list video.

[@IamJFD]

​@@RedReVenge007as to Starlight I think it is S tier, it can really find the card that it needs, but it might take a while to find that card, and even then it might not be the perfect card. The X tier can break the game regardless of what they draw, just by innate spamming, or their special rule, so their strat is almost certain by turn 1, and it will always be god tier strat.

[@IamJFD]

@@RedReVenge007 not sure if my other comment is posted. But im surprised Intensify is that high, never saw it dominating any game. Or looking busted

[@RedReVenge007]

@@IamJFD Intensify is extremely potent

[@brianmurphy9039]

Would really have liked some trash talk about the F-Tier rather than just skipping them.