How good are Turtle Ships? (AoE2)

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

"disgustingly OP" - Japanese review of the Turtle Ship, 1590s

[@EvilDoresh]

"Plz nerf" "This new ship meta sucks"

[@KimFareseed]

Patch Notes: -Turtle Ships nerfed, Admiral Yi has been dismissed.

[@a.nonimus6705]

​@@KimFareseedNext Patch Notes: Psyyyyych, Yi just wrecked your 100+ vessel fleet with 10 ships by luring you into a narrow channel against unfavorable currents Japanese: Hax. This game is broken. We're only playing land maps now

[@zaratrustamaster]

gotta love to imagine yi sun shin as an insanely skilled micro player, while the japanese general, hideyoshi, was that 'screw it, patrol in' type of player

[@SciFi2285]

"Pls make Chinese more noob friendly... I am low elo" - Ming Emperor, 1590s

[@chingamfong]

0:44 "Admiral Yi .... Yeeted Japanese battleships" I laughed way harder than i should

[@Hanfgurkenhasser]

I cannot believe I just heard this 40-something year old man unironically say that without chuckling. Amazing.

[@magossvinctus]

you might even say... he Yi-ted...

[@CrniWuk]

"A gentle yoink!" - Admiral Yi, ca. 1500.

[@Caiotus]

I had to go back and listen to it again after hearing it hahaha

[@SY-jd7dm]

@@Hanfgurkenhasserwait, Spirit is 40? He looks so young though.

[@paulreiter7015]

I think it would have been a good idea to include a bit on how turtle ships fare as anti-building (mainly towers and castles) ships because I've see the cannon projectile trip new players up into thinking they're replacements for the cannon galleon.

[@STevEKlm012]

That's a good point. Things like cannon galleon relies on it's range and bonus damage to destroy buildings, both of which turtle ship lacks.

[@truepietro]

You hit the point man!

[@YuriXEstelle]

I really like the inclusion of historical facts for some context. I hope to see it in more unit overviews.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

You forgot the most important buff the Turtle Ship got over the years : an AOC patch changed its appearance, it notably had a single-beam "tail" instead of the twin one, and was narrower.

[@EvilDoresh]

It was also overall more oval in shape, whereas the front and back of the more authentic-looking ship are "cut off"

[@Hemostat]

they really took the "turtle" part and ran with it

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@EvilDoresh indeed, to allow forward- and backward-facing cannons. I built a turtle ship in Space Engineers (called "Typhoon Serpent", it's on the Steam Workshop), on it I decided to have 2 forward guns. No rear ones, as I prefered using the room for a bigger broadside.

[@Duke_of_Lorraine]

@@Hemostat they mainly rushed the design as Microsoft told them to add the Koreans 5 weeks before the deadline. The design of the Turtle Ship was fixed but the gameplay design of the civ is still in the air 24 years later.

[@AllahDoesNotExist]

​@@Duke_of_LorraineThat was to appease the Korean StarCraft players right

[@LightKnight_Age_Of]

The ad in the end from SOTL is the only ad that I genuinely like to watch

[@michaelbird9148]

Yeah, genuinely creative and natural feeling with a very clear call-out at the start and end of the video. Great approach.

[@jjforcebreaker]

Shoutout to Spirit Of The Law, for continuing to make entertaining and informative videos.

[@counterman-namreview516]

imagine Turtle Ship suddenly pack side way and start shooting ALL OF ITS SIDE CANNONS lmao

[@widodoakrom3938]

Too op

[@Showsni]

And then bust out their historically accurate sails to become the fastest naval unit too.

[@ersatzvitamin1]

BROADSIDE ATTACKKKKKK

[@bobjoe109]

That's age of empires 3 lol

[@robdenini6972]

Fun fact about Yi: he won every battle against the Japanese, never lost a single ship and, in his most famous battle, he was outnumbered 50 to 1 and still defeated the Japanese while losing like 5 sailors.

[@BayWa4eva]

have the japanese ever been a strong naval force though? if so then i have never heard of it.

[@MrDwarfpitcher]

The Japanese were strong in ww2. They also performed well against the Russian Baltic fleet which is a very fun story to look up

[@BayWa4eva]

@@MrDwarfpitcher thanks, i'll have a look at that

[@robdenini6972]

@@BayWa4eva They defeated numerous Korean fleets (when not under Yi's command) and were also known for their piracy during the middle ages

[@melissagrenier2200]

@@BayWa4eva I don't know but it'd be weird for an island nation to not have had a strong navy at any point wouldn't it?

[@yuuumtheepic4118]

I bet 1000 dollars the next civ overview WONT be koreans. He knows we're growing complacent with these video predictions, and is gonna throw us for a loop. I personally support this, never let anybody know your next move Edit: FUCK

[@azurerider812]

See you next video

[@shizukousapostle1stapostle710]

But he already did that last time meaning he wants us to think that the next civ overview won't be Koreans but it will actually be Koreans and surprise us. We have already lost

[@Feuerpfeil369]

Ehm, sounds like a good bet :D

[@gamingwithdrgoblin]

Yep, we now know what the next video is gonna be

[@rat_thrower5604]

Top 10 worst barracks

[@brainwasher9876]

Mongols!

[@harshawardhanthopate487]

It definitely is not the Korean civ review. We all know how SoTL surprised us the last time 😅

[@thegmer5249]

The question is: when?

[@chingamfong]

He still owes us a Teutons overview

[@Wuuj_]

Admiral Yi Soon Shin pulled some crazy shit with these back in the day. He really got treated horribly by the corrupt politicians and systems back in the day but he was a genuinely an unrivaled, wartime strategist, gigachad patriot that held off the entirety of Japanese Navy, once even outnumbered like 1 to 10. If he was an AOE player NOBODY would beat him in a water focused map.

[@CrnaStrela]

He was apparently never defeated, not even when he was a mere border officer. He becoming admiral was because of jealously of the other border officers and that position was more of an exile than promotion. Yet, he managed to fix the navy and became the sole reason why Hideyoshi couldn't invade Korean land. Bro's worst enemies are literally his own people.

[@NicvB]

We need a food centric video so that the sponsorship can be for the website spirit of the slaw.

[@FleishDawg]

I remember as a kid this unit just mystified me. What a cool looking gigantic boss battle unit - always reminded me of the Battlecruiser of Starcraft 1 at the time.

[@lollaloopa]

Remember when you got some turtle ships as an easter egg in the aztec campaign? It felt so magical to young me.

[@stylesrj]

@@lollaloopa A gift from the gods?

[@ersatzvitamin1]

​@lollaloopa Now, it just became looted cannon galleon

[@fullmetalx225]

Serendipitous you posted about these ships and Yi Sun-sin while I've been reading the book Imjin War and came upon this passage: "On April 23 a small fishing boat was stopped in nearby waters and the two Japanese on board, a twenty-seven-year old calling himself Sogoro who "could read and write a little," and a forty-four-year old illiterate named Yosayemon, were arrested on suspicion of being spies. The two were brought before Yi Sun-sin, who interrogated them through an interpreter. This is what they said: We are natives of Izumo, Japan. On the 18th of this month we put out to sea in a small boat for fishing and were caught while adrift before a storm. We don't know very much about the daily activity or the way of espionage of the Japanese soldiery, but we heard that an order arrived from the homeland for evacuation of the Japanese armed forces from Korea before Third Moon regardless of victory or defeat, because during two years' stay in a foreign land the Japanese army suffered so many casualties. Therefore, the Japanese army here will go home as soon as its friendly battalions from the north will come to join it. Commander Yi, finding their words "cunning and vague," had them tortured, but no additional information could be extracted. He then ordered their arms and legs torn from their bodies. Finally they were put out of their misery by having their heads chopped off."

[@bionetik]

What a wholesome and uplifting anecdote

[@dokhanh1044]

Turtle ship has Dragon head since its sharpe may be not based Turtle but 귀부 (or Bixi in chinese). In mythology, Bixi is eldest child of Dragon with enormous strength allowing him to carry mountain on his shell Some versions said it should be turtle head but for psychological warfare, it is replace by dragon head en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bixi

[@peterkeleher]

very cool!

[@cassiolins1203]

I think an important side of population efficiency is that it free pop space for villagers and fishing ships. For example: if a Turtle ship can beat 3 Galleons, it is actually a better unit even if it cost 3 times more, because now you have 1 military unit (which is worth 3) PLUS 2 villagers/fishing ships.

[@inioszi3053]

More historic references, even longer ones. I loved this one

[@Imperiused]

Watching this video made me think... something we're missing is a Team Bonus that let's you recruit a unique boat unit. If we eventually get one of these, hopefully it'll have great synergy with Turtle Ships. Maybe a small cheap karambit-like canoe? Then you can use them as a meat shield and swarm your opponent while your Turtles turn it into a snowball.

[@xavierinthetube]

"Admiral Yi, as he yeeted the Japanese" you outdid yourself Spirit

[@TheOhioNews]

8:24 amazingly, we just saw this matchup in Regicide Rumble 5 a couple hours ago, and a couple hours AFTER this video posted

[@MC-wh3xm]

Turtle ships are also pretty good at map/chokepoint control, if you can protect a few near the opponents shores, they're going to lose all their buildings eventually. They basically 1-2 shot all ground/trade units.

[@civ-fanboy2137]

Your Addbreaks are simply the best

[@yasirbukhari1006]

Hey Spirit of the Law, guys here! On the latest Town Center podcast ft. The Viper and Masmorra , Masmorra said that you'll be coming on that podcast soon. I really can't wait for it.

[@MouseDestruction]

One of the better units to use repair on as well, high durability and expensive.

[@chickenadobo7166]

SPIRIT OF THE S L O W

[@trailblazer1748]

That add build up was S tier stuff.. I want to go see that “spirit of the slow” website right now. XD

[@smugshrug]

are you turtley enough for the turtle ship club?

[@CyberDrewan]

Turtle ship! Turtle ship!

[@lewstherintelamon244]

How do dromons do against Turtleships?

[@redman1458]

bad

[@widodoakrom3938]

Up

[@daarom3472]

depends what kind of dromon.

[@SOUPNPC]

Played against Koreans as the Armenians (Id argue best Dromon Civ) they wipe.

[@zeroyuki92]

​@@SOUPNPCwho wiped who?

[@Doktersocks]

The koreans are what got me into AoE because I loved how their unique units look.

[@Doc_Calamari]

The Turtle Ship has been one of my favorites ever since The Conquerors was released. Only recently, when Definitive Edition was released, I realized how unpopular it actually was. I was quite bummed because people simply never used it as intended, which is in a big ball of all the ships. Regarding their weaknesses, even though real life Turtle Ships were relatively fast and maneuverable, considering their heavy armor, they performed poorly on open water or at rough seas. The first time the Turtle Fleet was commanded by someone else than Admiral Yi (who had been imprisoned for being too successful), they were baited into open water where they were easily outmaneuvered and destroyed. So in a way it makes sense that the AoE2 Turtle Ship is better at defending chokepoints than chasing down Galleons.

[@michaelengelbrecht-hk8zw]

I see we’re getting to the Spirit of the Blog with Squarespace today!

[@UnDeaDCyBorg]

The one comparison we haven't seen is a mixed ship army of all 3 types for either side, that is, where the opposing force brings a tiny group of demo ships to the battle. After all, those also deal pretty decent damage against (Korean) fire ships, so I think that's a relevant comparison.

[@BrownFoxWarrior]

7:40 That demo pathing made me die a little inside.

[@Nostryck]

Always a pleasure to see your unit presentation videos! I wouldn't have thought it was so profitable, given how rarely we see it. On the other hand, there are two aspects not covered in the video, which I would have been curious to know: - what does it give against units compared to a galleon (given that it hits in AOE) - how does it look compared to buildings, such as a tower or a castle

[@BayWa4eva]

no naval unit is particularly strong against buildings. cannon galleons only work because they outrange castles and towers, their dps can't keep up with land units and if they ever get in range of a castle they're dead. regular dromons can't even outrange a crennelation castle, total losers.

[@jotfohm4644]

Hey Spirit Guys of the Law her. 😊🎉❤

[@ismail_]

Here* 🤣

[@starcaller6448]

I’m glad the turtle ship has slowly gotten better over the last two decades. This video might help more Korean players come out of their shell. Also, does your elephant know you’re seeing a turtle? I thought facts were THEIR special thing.

[@Jixxor]

Korenas were really fortunate to have Adminal Yeet on their side back in the day.

[@Whomobile]

They easily are my favourite looking ship

[@laservsvecchiette]

Ah yes teutons overview incoming!

[@koutetsusama2498]

Your videos are amazing, love your stuff SoTL!

[@starocean8534]

Portuguese civ overview coming up😂

[@Green__Ghost]

That explains why there wasn't a Korea video after the war wagon one.

[@laguz3413]

I remember a 4v4 match i had in Baltic. Someone on the enemy team decided to make a turtleship deathball. It was imposible to take down, those ships were immortal.

[@Amadeus8484]

Imagine if someone had combined the Turtle Ship with the Longboat. Perfection in pre-modern naval engineering...

[@ozyermiahu]

It'll be interesting to have ships that are like rams, but i think that maybe the won't be so useful. Perhaps as another attack option to the turtle ship

[@arcticbeak]

They are the best. Also my favourite unit.

[@doomplage9999]

Hi. What I love about your channel is that it exists. Bye.

[@Roel93]

My first thought was demo + turtle since turtle beats all except fire (and demo sort of). Keep the demo ships behind your turtles until the fire/demo ships approach.

[@yamchadragonball6983]

You forgot the teenager mutant Ninja upgrade, although it costs a lot of food and almost seems to require some pepperonipizza.

[@dragosd8992]

War wagon now turtle ships. You're edging me

[@LanceNisk-gt6xq]

Hey Spirit, Guys of the Law here!

[@balazsfenyes3880]

I like this ship so much, it looks so good and it's so bulky and slow, it's a teutonic shipknight without a cape

[@Cblazer100]

You didn’t compare the damage to buildings to the cannon gallon 😢

[@rowanturner-jones4936]

Thought you would put in cannon galleon comparison😮

[@irishguy051]

You should really take a look at Sins of A Solar Empire II, which just released. Its got lots of similar mechanics, plenty of "When does it make sense to pay for this eco upgrade" questions you could answer!

[@andrewy2957]

I think in imp, monks completely shutdown turtleship aggression. In castle, its a bit more close.

[@Arcodus]

Thanks for the video. I hope that one day Age of Empires 2 DE will get animated oars for ships.

[@mojungle3054]

VIDEO IDEA: Which civ has the best un-upgraded units. Best militia? Best spears? Best scouts? Etc

[@michaelandreipalon359]

Forget the side cannons, am surprised it doesn't have the naval equivalent of Cataphract trample damage, what with its protective spikes.

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

I just started playing water maps again for the first time in a while (first trying out the new Thirisadai then reverting to an old fav the Spanish Cannon Galleon with Ballistics) and was wondering how the Turtle Ship has changed from the old days.

[@CenturyOldPanda]

Hey Spirit of the law / everyone. Just curious to know if the background music used in those SOTL videos are copyright free musics? If so, does anybody know their names?

[@aruan7sp]

I thought that you would've mentioned that the first thing that changed for the Turtle Ship was its appearance.

[@kunevv]

Such a rare thing to say but I have some critique here - an obvious question arises - why we almost never see turtles in pro play? And I think the angle of monks being hard counter to them is worth to be noted. That seems as a significant weakness to the turtles (kind of parallel to elephants on land).

[@DCdabest]

I wonder if you can go hard into Turtle Ships in castle and just keep doubling down on them. The numbers on how much wood and gold you would need to make it happen would be interesting to see.

[@raynightshade8317]

If they made this thing historically accurate it would be OP as well. On other note have you seen the recent movies about YI? they are really good

[@gustavchambert7072]

Uuum. Aren't we missing something in the comparisons here? Like cannon galleons and dromon?

[@RheaMainz]

Turtle ships are very wide, so while they turn faster than normal ships, normal ships should outpace them in straight lines.

[@daheadsmiter2052]

Doing important thing < Watching Useless Facts about a Video game.

[@commonpepe2270]

Those unique ship matchups ironically make the turtle ship the samurai of naval units.

[@ethribin4188]

In short, the Turtle ship is so powerfull, you do NOT want to fight it. But you absolutely have the choice to fight, or to run.

[@themodman1014]

@SpiritOfTheLaw Your next website should be "Spirit of the Slaw" and be about BBQ related things.

[@royasturias1784]

a.k.a Geobukseon, the proto-ironclads of the Joseon polity before it went full Hermit Kingdom

[@rupert7565]

But how do they stack up against the cannon galleon?

[@kudrzyk]

I demand turtle to be added as a channel mascot, alongsite elephant.

[@dominikvukelic2412]

10:50 why does one fire ship change his mind, seeing the horrors and destruction, and becomes peaceful?

[@cuauhtemocsolanorosas9109]

What about the comparison vs Artillery Galleons?

[@Pedrunski_99]

I love spirit of the law

[@Alexplainshow]

East Asia would give Turtles a dragon head to signify their divinity

[@bigbigestwiner92]

Just wanted to say that I don’t even play aoe2 and stilk watch a lot of your videos. That ought to tell something about the quality here

[@TheOhioNews]

Jon Slow about to check this website out

[@Shnazz999]

How much gold does the butt breathing upgrade for the turtle ship cost and what are the in-game effects?

[@ico1]

Smol smol turtle house!

[@spyrofrost9158]

As a kid I always loved turtling (haha) until Imperial Age and sending swarms of turtle ships at the AI. I don't really play Koreans anymore after their heavy DE changes.

[@DrabWallDevice]

My question: How do they see where they're going?

[@lincolnvolk7609]

Spirit of the la hire!!

[@tanujaeasycooking8075]

Are you going to do Korean overview or war wagon overview

[@RazorWinter]

Going Turtle Ships + Fire Ships seems you double down on your demo ship weakness. Which is good online cuz players barely use it. But if you are campaign/bot player it can be pretty annoying.

[@avideogamemaster]

11:42 oof, that finish off was hard to watch lol

[@eodo14051]

SPIRIT OF THE SLOOOOOWWWWW 11 love you sotl ❤

[@yuuya5985]

Square Space really found a creative advertiser 11

[@otarius99]

I think it would be best to increase its damage in area specially against fire ships

[@harktischris]

how would turtle ship + demo ship fare instead of fire ships? is it just not resource efficient at all?

[@dievahdown]

They’re so good that I only play Koreans on water maps and I always win

[@smrtycakes7509]

sick ad SOTL!

[@Korakos]

You lied to us! Where is your spirit of the slow website!!! I DEMAND turtle facts!

[@Jeff_the_Hobo]

It's such a niche case that the turtle ship negates anti-camel bonus damage.

[@ethribin4188]

Based on korean history.... would it make sense for the koreans to get a civ bonus or tech that gives their galley line +1 range? Or would that be op?

[@idkputsomerandomname9657]

I think the only way to see the "full potential" of Turtle ships is in a T90 community game where you're supposed to hold the monument at the center (the center is surrounded by shallows, so ships can path through). Been a while since I checked T90, so I'm not sure if he's still hosting those.

[@johnsmith3548]

Uh, if its a short range cannon galleon why non of comparison are against cannon galleons? I guess those are trash vs other naval units but at least dps output could be compared