Vegito CAN'T TOUCH Super Saiyan 4 Goku

In this video, we look at Super Saiyan 4 Goku VS Super Saiyan Vegito in Dragon Ball Z.
Credit
Thumbnail - arbiter720 and crismarshall
Footage - Jet451 Gaming
SSJRyu1's Channel - / ssjryu1

[@de606returns6]

It really wouldn't make any sense that Vegito would be stronger than him anyway, since Goku in GT is far superior to bother Vegeta and Goku from the Buu Saga and what's with the hate of GT too

[@Grimgammer]

Cause it's not "canon"

[@de606returns6]

@@Grimgammer I guess... Maybe I'll never understand it but I find GT to be a decent show

[@Grimgammer]

@@de606returns6 so do I the only arc in it that I don't like would be the super 17 arc

[@zelz3011]

@@Grimgammer People really riding that so hard. Back when GT was the only thing that existed did people ever say that? I only really remember that after BOG came out they started saying that. Like back then I remembered GT was seen as Canon and AF after that even if most people couldn't realize it wasn't actually it's at least honorable for its mention. All the fan animations and sprites and the games that were modded to make stories.

[@kyledea187mdkjr5]

@@Grimgammer Canon is an overrated term

[@JacobCada]

The hate for GT is insane to the point of a man making a video saying that a DBZ transformation is stronger than the sequel at the time. Ill be the first to admit the flaws in GT but damn it man, when I say most ppl bandwagon hate GT because of Super im proven right every passing day.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

I honestly see so much hate for both GT and Super that I just ignore everything about it. Both are creations with great concepts but really flawed execution.

[@JacobCada]

@@mandalorianhunter1 I agree 100 percent. I like tthe potential of both and really wish that they were handeled better.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@JacobCada agreed even original DB and DBZ aren't perfect. People gloss over that. Hell I love the Buu Saga, but now it's considered the weakest saga.

[@CornaOnTheCob]

@@mandalorianhunter1 Eh, there's a lot of concepts in Super I wouldn't call great.

[@mandalorianhunter1]

@@CornaOnTheCob same here, but some could have worked better like the Goku Black arc and Universal tournament. Universe 6 can be hit or miss. We will see how the Moro and Granola arc gets adapted.

[@damneddisciple4833]

The fact that this video had to be made AT ALL really shows how much die-hard fans will twist information for their own gain. No one complained when Gohan was stronger than Freeza, and no one complained when SSG Goku was considered stronger than Vegito. GROW UP. Even without guides and powered scaling, it's so obvious that SSJ4 Goku is stronger than Vegito that it's blinding. That's just the way power creep works in anime.

[@plebeian292]

I agree ssj4 goku would win but Vegito ssj3 going all out would put up a good fight.. it’s not as one sided as you think

[@damneddisciple4833]

@@plebeian292 yeah, it wouldn't a complete embarrassment or anything like that. If they both fought their hardest to the death or something, Goku would come out on top easily, but not without a scratch.

[@Unethical2023]

@@damneddisciple4833 Both of you clearly didn't watch the video if you think this is anything but a one-sided stomp.

[@damneddisciple4833]

@@Unethical2023 oh no, it totally would. I'm just saying that neither of them would WANT it to be. They'd do the "power up slowly" Dragon Ball thing until Goku come out on top

[@xx_dark_lionelmessi-satani7734]

@@plebeian292 counting SSJ3 Vegetto would mean throwing in DB Heroes' lore in to the mix, which in the earlier to middle sections of the arcade game's story had SSJ4 as a transformation forbidden by Chronoa to the Xeno characters, since it was so absurdly strong just tapping into it would be dangerous to the universe.

[@frostfiredirewolf8517]

I am kinda glad to hear SSJ4 is so strong. I never got deep into GT or Super. But I prefer SSJ4 over Blue in terms of design.

[@droc5427]

Took it back to those saiyan roots, was a nice callback to the great ape. Design wise I think it's better than the hair dye power up set

[@sugma69420]

Definitely. Blue looks boring as hell

[@danishqureshi514]

​@@sugma69420 Agreed

[@TheUnknownScholar777]

Absolute truth.

[@SaiyanScholar]

I am rightfully triggered. Lol. This topic bugs me, I thought it was Hakai'd 10 Years Ago!

[@spark4343]

@@SaiyanScholar it's really stupid tbh

[@M3rtyville]

@@SaiyanScholar It was revived as a passionless cashgrab training for 4 month to getting stronga than any previous antagonist

[@Trendingjamaica6528]

Crazy how people actually believe ssj4 is weaker

[@Hmoney42069]

he would be weaker than super saiyan blue vegito But stronger than super saiyan vegito

[@margaretcox5612]

I'm glad this fan spits out the facts

[@Najibar]

Bruh, the SSJ4 feats were incredible during the GT saga, I mean not all the time, but still powerful, kinda reminded me of super Broly. But, Any character from Z or any form from Z, is severely left behind by GT, or even the End of Z Goku. Love this

[@Seven_DB]

The crazy part about this guide is that if you use it strictly for multipliers and not as a Vegetto vs SSJ4 Goku comparison but just Potara vs SSJ4, this would make SSJ4 relative to fusion while SSJB has been shown to be weaker then it. Yet I bet these people would claim SSJB > SSJ4 and use this as evidence.

[@newhybrid101]

Thats what the guide meant.

[@sorakazama7031]

Hell the fact that ssg held its own against beerus but ssbx20 kk cant is outrageous.

[@ohhellwhereami2574]

@@sorakazama7031 beerus was playing with him lmao so it's less than 10%of beerus power so ssb wouldn't do anything other than vegito ssb but it would ultimately be nothing as well

[@DarthKamui]

Fusion in the Majin Buu Arc. SSJ God was indirectly stated and shown to be above Vegito, but now Vegito is above SSJ Blue. But we already know that SSJ4 Goku in the Baby Arc has more power than SSJ Blue Goku in the Goku Black/Future Trunks Arc of the DBS Manga.

[@plebeian292]

Vegito can go ssj3 if needed

[@quanwashington1115]

GT haters back at it again. A more logical discussion from his part would be discussing if a Vegito from the Buu Saga would be stronger than a theoretical Goku that achieved SS4 during the Buu Saga. These downplayers are actually fucking stupid. They ignore scaling to suit a narrative they already built

[@kuru-yami9416]

how is it lowballing? some of us just saw the gt files which states vegito is around the level of ssj4

[@quanwashington1115]

@@kuru-yami9416 If you watched the video, you would see that the files refer to the fusion multiplier being comparable to SS4's multiplier, not that Vegito is the same as SS4 Goku. You only come to that conclusion by ignoring the context of the material, which is talking about multipliers.

[@littled975]

And plus this is The fusion from z not GT

[@CornaOnTheCob]

@@kuru-yami9416 The guide says "perhaps", meaning it's not 100% factual. And yet you still use that source. 💀

[@toxicsaiyan7109]

​​​@@kuru-yami9416 watch all of the video and look at the information in it.

[@songoku9348]

Geekdom and another guy made a video talking about this some time ago. I’m glad it was made, as I am with this video. Saiyan Scholar has that distinct humour unique to only him.

[@plebeian292]

Yes I agree with daddy scholar but I wish he would scale ssj3 Vegito.. give my boy a chance

[@sanjaykerpal6060]

Chuck the cyber cuck and seth the programmer made a video of ss4 vs ssg/ssb not from the anime but from the movie.

[@DaDungeonNCR]

Knocking it out of the park every time and keeping it respectful. Gotta appreciate real talent ! Kudos man

[@Trap2DaMax]

no GT hater is safe from the sayan scholar.

[@souhaibdokkan5133]

Amazing into bro keep on the great work

[@mr.wonderfulwisdomouswonde2991]

Holy crap I absolutely love that new intro scholar

[@FierymonolithDrawing]

Personally I think gt was amazing, almost better then z, its really dumb to hate gt. Like if u agree.

[@susmane5482]

No doubt GT goku fighting a whole force of SIGMA's, already puts him above anything Vegito has done. To defeat that many people who are Sigmas is insane. RIP Sigma grindset

[@humanman9920]

lol

[@outpesticide]

You shouldn't really have to debate something like this though, right? Wouldn't all of Goku's progress in GT feel redundant if he was still weaker than Vegito? It should be a question of character development or story progression, not scans and statements. Great video tho

[@work90]

Bruh vegito is strong. so it's no problem if Goku is still inferior. Vegito in base alone kicks buuhan fusion rather easily. Something a ss3 really struggle with. While a base vegito may struggle against ss4, definitely not ss2 Vegito.

[@thornitemasylum]

@@work90 did you even watch the video?

[@work90]

@@thornitemasylum yes I watched the video. I'm talking about the facts set in Z. I don't have to watch a video to think you know?

[@HangMrH]

Vegito is supposed to be the multiplier of both saiyan, it's so strong that it only makes sense to have a time limit. So ssj4 can be inferior and that would show how strong ssj4 gogeta trully is in that 10 minutes he is in, otherwise it doesn't feel special

[@digimationentertainment9820]

@@work90 what a dweeb 😂

[@Wardragonkong]

I’m proud that at least one DB KZbinr has a brain

[@Geozone117]

He doesn't

[@user-nx2qq5ds7t]

@@Geozone117 He does and he also has balls unlike 90% of db youtubers who are afraid of yt comment section.

[@ohhellwhereami2574]

@@Geozone117 more than yours at least

[@M3rtyville]

Vegitto needed Super Saiyan to break Boo's dimensional collaps attack. Super Boo with Gohan absorbed is like 3 times Boo considering Boo and Gotenks were about even and Gohan couldn't do shit against Bootenks. In GT Goten was confident he could beat Baby who he stated to be stronger than anyone he faced. For the sake of argument, let's say that's Super Boo only and Goten still needed Super Saiyan. When Baby took over Goten's body he bacame about 2 times as strong as Super Boo at minimum and he was still not able to push Gohan to Super Saiyan. They were about even. Gohan had to turn Super Saiyan when Baby threatened to destroy the planet. Now you have GT Gohan in base who is stronger than Goten who is about as strong as Super Boo and he transforms into a Super Saiyan. And then teams up with Goten against Goku. Goku schools in Base 51 Super Boos. How many Super Boo's can Vegito beat as a Super Saiyan in the Boo Saga? Like does that seem like Vegito can beat a Super Saiyan 4? Baby Vegeta in just Super Saiyan was giving SSJ3 GT Goku a fight. And said Baby transformed twice absorbing ki far greater than 51 Super Boo's on top of his at least 51 times 400 Super Boo power. And Super Saiyan 4 Goku took his strongest attack without a scratch.

[@supersaiyangodshallot8742]

I believe fusion is like x100 of the fuse users into one. In DB Legends, 2nd anniversary story mode, Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku (GT) was able to move at least fast as Fused Zamasu. Assuming if the Full Power SS4 is x10 of SS4, then SS4 Goku (GT) is definitely much stronger than SS Vegito (Buu saga).

[@zelz3011]

Legends might just be stronger but like...

[@sorakazama7031]

@@zelz3011 gt goku at base in gt erased an infinite dimension that the kai had no control over due to the gods there. Gt goku also shook the entirety of hell at base just joking around. There is no way, truth be told he shouldnt even need ss4 on fused zamasu so id say legends made him much weaker. Especially much weaker than end gt goku which was 100 years after all that.

[@zelz3011]

@@sorakazama7031 Yeah 100 years Goku is busted maybe by this point UI is above it and that but I assume 100 Years Goku would probably body everything in super power wise before The TOP in Base form. They sitll have SS-2-3-4 and possibly 5!

[@sorakazama7031]

@@zelz3011 ui isn't even above gt goku before that. 100 year goku became undying and showed the ability to phase in and out of reality when people he knew seen him. They couldn't sense him, he also showed in the goku Jr movie that he could revive on his own. So he has full control over the dragonballs since the one goku Jr found obviously couldn't do it. Pretty sure he's at the point where he could think people away. He'll when he was made immortal by shenron he looked as if he was as strong as ss4 gpgeta at base. None of omega blast hurt him, he was talking to him as he was getting blasted. That was before the timeskip.

[@plebeian292]

What makes you believe for a second Vegito can’t go ssj2 or ssj3?

[@jordanglasper1064]

Much appreciated.. how do I don’t quite agree on all the loveseat to go from two. They fall in line with everything you said to attend for the most part. Thank you for the video I really needed this to recover from the super movie

[@Unethical2023]

I'm so grateful that this video exists

[@IAxrySolo]

its kinda weird to have 2 pretty different characters be a heated debate, great and interesting video though

[@LuhZay3]

Db fans don’t have anything better to talk about lol

[@jacobbhattacharjee2820]

Fun fact : GT Goku is way older than Super Goku

[@sun332s7]

If DBS ever goes past EOZ (which it looks like it might) GT fans are gonna mald.

[@Ankroms]

@@sun332s7 one problem is that Akira Toriyama has said that it won't surpass EOZ so yeah and i believe Toyotarou has said the same

[@Revonlieke]

Yea I think it's easy to just forget that there's a time difference of like 15years between Buu Saga and start of GT. In 15years base Goku would have jumped miles beyond Super Vegito in Z. That said, if they were on the same playing field. Obviously Vegito would be stronger, not only because there's 2 beings, but also that at that point Vegito would also have access to SSJ4 making it entirely destroy SSJ4.

[@ShinzoUchihaX]

So explain why trunks isnt god tier in future trunks saga if time = extreme power. Get rekt.

[@Revonlieke]

@@ShinzoUchihaX Because Trunks. Get wrecked. Goku and Vegeta actually train.

[@AshRaf-to5gu]

Buddy just found a single point from a guide that suited his headcanon and just ran with it.

[@vladline1882]

True, even despite you've proven it to them, they'll still refuse it and defend their own to the death. Probably they might hurt their ego.

[@bullymaguire632]

To me, it always was "if Goku and Vegeta fuse into vegetto right now they become stronger than a ssj4 goku or vegeta right now"

[@enzoenzoenzo9555]

The only point I disagree is the 200x multiplier from end of Z to GT... That's not how it works, if goku turns 400x stronger from boo saga to EoZ it means he was close to 2x a year (about 1.82x to be axact) because he gets stronger on top of his current power, and It grows exponentially. So if goku was evolving the same rate as before, in 5 years he would be about 20 times stronger... Yes, just 20 (and It makes sense because this is 5 years, and 20 X 20 is 400 wich is the 10 years multiplier) it works like this because it exponetial. But still ssj4 goku from gt is clearly stronger than boo saga vegetto, the gyide is just talking about The multiplier and a hypothetical ssj4 in the boo saga.

[@JamezP]

imo if it leads to the same conclusion (ssj4 > super vegitto) it's still possible so both ways should get a pass we don't know how creative with training Goku was, if he was near death and used senzu or trained on king kai's planet under heavy pressure even in the gravity room with vegeta is a lot better than just training with anyone

[@sidejacked9447]

Simply put, well said my Scholar.

[@ryderrobin5990]

One question, when are you gonna make more sonic videos? Or your not going to be doing that?

[@alfieingrouille1528]

Cool vid

[@davidsuper773]

I am so glad you debunk his video even when I was in 3rd grade I always knew SS4 Goku can beat Vegito.

[@nebulouscat2210]

I know it's a fan manga, but I really really respect your ability and knowledge. Is there any way possible to scale Ultra Vegito from CallmeArjs fan manga God Killer in any way? Or is it simply absurd? If it is absurd, then why? Hit me with all you got comments, and scholar, I for one and probably many others would love to hear what you have to say.

[@ORREGOLAC]

Another theory I have, is the fact that we should take a count that this guide was realise in the late 90's, back in the day, the only reference people got for a potara fusion multiplier was the Daizenshuu's from Toriyama. So by that time, watching Vegito as Goku x Vegeta, instead of Goku + Vegeta x100 (like you say now) it was the most reliable power up from a fusion they had. Now we know it's probably not the case and was not coherent we what we saw, specially in the modern Dragon Ball, but again, if we think in the context of the guide (late 90's) it does make sense that Super Vegito is around the power of Super Saiyan 4 Goku. Just let's take your power levels as an example. If instead of Vegito being the addition plus a 100 times boost from Goku and Vegeta, you multiply their power (again with your own numbers in power, being Goku and Vegeta around 11 Billion) that would make a Super Vegito from the Buu Saga having a power level around 250 Septillion, and when you do compare this power level with the scales the made for DBGT, it's not that far, it's not that crazy. So yes, now in the day with all retcons about fusion and all the new information we know in the modern Dragon Ball franchise, Super Saiyan 4 Goku is far, but like REALLY FAR ahead from Vegito even in Super Saiyan 3 from the Buu Saga, but back in the day, again, with the context on it, I think the guide made sense.

[@ravenouself4181]

10:16 If anything, this proves just how powerful SSJ4 actually is.

[@tjvisionary1559]

@Saiyan Scholar I agree with this 1 thousand percent and no im not being a hype man but the facts you stated where straight facts but ofc your videos are always facts but this makes since because if gt at the time was a contunion of Z it makes since Ssj4 goku wins why well look at the Transformation Goku in ssj4 is relaxed and has completely control over it never once was he knocked out of the from which makes since since this is the same goku who made super saiyan his base from 10 days before the cell games meaning if he can do that he'd already know how to control ssj4 and ssj4 is Also more of a saiyan from more of a back to the roots kinda from so this makes since why he would not only be stronger but could easily hold his own but also great video I loved it and learned qllt keep it up

[@BigBussinBiscuits]

I love the tenkichi/raging blast music in the background reminds me of my childhood

[@nemesisprime4128]

I remember posts about Gogeta being the stronger version than Vegito or the other way around, I mean they both are the same fusion so are they the same power level and I always thought they are the same power level. Don't want to start a debate or conflict just want to know your thoughts

[@WolfBoy83090]

Bro people still say naruto solos dbz you’ll never escape this battle

[@xirlio8532]

This comparation makes no sense as Vegito is a fusion between Goku and Vegeta. For starters, why would we even compare Buu saga Vegito with GT Goku ss4 which is after the Buu saga? It's like you compare Vegito with ssb Goku which again makes no sense since that's in DBS and Goku already has god ki. Now that part... why would you compare Vegito with Goku instead of Vegito with GT Vegito? I know you ain't got one but since we're talking theory, just invent one, based on ss4 GT Gogeta, so the comparation actually makes sense because technically DBZ Vegito post Buu saga would be much stronger than ssj4 GT Goku. But again... you're making a comparation which makes no sense, it's like saying DBS ssb Goku is stronger than Buu saga ss3 Goku ... it's omega obvious. Absolutely no response was necessary imo.

[@de606returns6]

Exactly!

[@albrezie]

I’m with you on this one.

[@justinarzola4584]

That's like comparing king piccolo or kid Goku to ssj blue or ultimate Gohan.

[@tchrono12]

Dude, did u not see what the video is about? @Xirlio ....... its a DBZ SSJ Vegetto vs SSJ4 Goku from gt >.> he simply said that gt is faaaaaaaar above anything in Z >.> Watch the video first please b4 making stupid statements? He said it at the start of the video... its because that guy was comparing Z SSJ Vegetto to GT's SSJ4 Goku ...... Jeez...... the db community.... patience is a virtue u know, watch things first , then say things... XD

[@hxppythxughts7149]

Agree. If it was gt goku and gt vegeta that fused in baby saga, then this gt vegito absolutely stronger than ssj4 goku baby saga.

[@MJBBo]

Great Topic!!!!!

[@mariobeast14]

They should make another kakarot style dbz but with gt story and add what if scenarios as dlc

[@immaculatedavee]

I appreciate the intro of gohan

[@maxwarlow6132]

So how does everyone feel about stated potential feats from GT? Not trying to start an argument just genuinely curious how you would go about supporting feats equivalent to vegito and buuhans as impressive?

[@gerritburger3164]

I know this has nothing to do with this video. But I was always wondering if super Saiyan 4 was stronger that the gods transformation. Can you help me there.

[@GGtheoriginal]

DBGT Goku is GOAT: And SS4 Power Boosts through the Series Proves SS4 would Surpass Vegito.

[@cederofficial]

I always feel like with these types of videos people use logic that makes sense but wasnt intended at ALL when the story was written.

[@plebeian292]

I’m a huge ssj4 fanboy it’s my favorite design of all but everyone heavily down plays Vegito potential.. he didn’t need to go above ssj1 against buu. Vegito was about even with buuhan in base, 50x multiplier from ssj1 he was just toying around imagine SSJ3 Vegito going all out. I still think ssj4 goku from GT would win but not easy it would be a good battle

[@nigward8620]

Did you just not watch the video or something

[@jessechavez4820]

Even in base form vegito was toying with super buu

[@notamethadict]

Bro he even said base form of GT Goku would easily stomp on Vegito

[@isaacmendes1926]

@@notamethadict you mean kid goku? You kidding right?

[@notamethadict]

@@isaacmendes1926 No GT Goku and GT kid Goku's base form are the same It's just the size

[@Divinepotential7745]

OK one question for you which is stronger blue or 4

[@elpopman2055]

Yes I do agree that it pretty much confirms hypothetical Buu Saga SS4 Goku or SS4 Vegeta Would Rival SS1 Vegito. Which Pretty Much confirms that Super Saiyan 4 has a massive multiplier considering that Buu Saga base Vegito was already Dozens of times more powerful than combined the power of Super Saiyan 3 Goku and Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta.. a fusion in Base would always surpass the combined Peak power of the two Fusees. We also have to remember that according to Dragon Ball GT Journal 43, Super Saiyan full power/Grade 4 is stated to be just as powerful as Super Saiyan grade 3 without the drawbacks.. is therefore Super Saiyan grade 4 is actually a 500 times multiplier. 2: I'm well aware of Base Goku being strong in GT but we don't really know how powerful he was in the beginning of Gt.. By Time Rildo Showed up Goku was already Much more Powerful then he was at the beginning of Dragon Ball GT. Even we do not factor ignore buhan and buutenks, because kid buu much Weaker... does not change the fact that Kid buu was clearly much more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, the fact that he was able to push back the Spirit Bomb supports the Daizenshuu Of Kid Buu Being more powerful then SS3 Goku.. he was simply toying with Goku.. Therefore Gt base Goku when he encountered Rildo would be more powerful than the Buu Saga Spirit Bomb.... either Kid Buu was holding back or he was exponentially adapting and Getting Stronger as He Fought SS3 Goku.. it's interesting to note that the only time kid buu was struggling/Panicing when he was handling the Spirit Bomb before he pushed it back.

[@VegitoFanBoi]

" Buu sage " don't think other wise Gogeta fans😒

[@Mr.Voiddweller]

i just started the video and first 10 seconds in and dude making the claim that vegito is equal to super saiyan 4 goku is way off... ultra vegito would give ssj 4 a challenge though.

[@jer8279]

GT GOKU was an absolute beast as ssj4. I didnt like the "kid goku" angle, but i liked GT

[@hokageobama4003]

SS4 Goku stomps the entirety of Z. It's only when people start mentioning DBS that Base Goku post BOG arc solos all of GT.

[@gabehc8689]

Super is like a separate universe. Which is why bardock and the saiyans as a whole are so different.

[@youtubeshadowbannedme]

No it's not You don't decide what is and isn't canon

[@gabehc8689]

@@youtubeshadowbannedme you are right u don't b but the end of z said the ten year time skip was times of peace which decimates any chance of super being connected to z at all. It's not the same universe.

[@vidalvb1894]

Best Fusion vs Best Super Saiyan Transformation

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Honestly this person not to be disrespectful but he likes to downplay on GT characters Like Vegito being stronger than ssj4 goku or ssj god goku Be more superior than ssj4 gogeta

[@gabehc8689]

It also explains why goku was sent off world as a three year old in super where as in the original he was literally an infant.

[@JamalsNotSoSmol812]

Actually I remember this debate would come up way back when people would compare a hypothetical Vegito ss3 to Gogeta ss4.

[@PeanutButterGehlee]

Dude compared 50k kid buu power with 6 sextillion 💀

[@extremelegendsupreme4596]

Yup🤣🤣these vegito fans gotta be humbled.

[@notimportant493]

I thought everyone agreed using guides in any debate past 2016 was a dumb idea? Apparently not.

[@abominationdesolation8322]

My headcanon formula for fusion is f=(a+b)*10^c --- where f is the resulting fusion, a and b are the fusees, while c is the synchronization rate. Since Goku & Vegeta are rivals, and have fought together (against and side by side) countless times, they have a high sync rate. Let's say their sync rate is 200% the normal sync rate; say if Gohan was a fusion partner instead it would result in a fusion only half as strong; this would be expressed as 10^2, or 100. So (Goku+Vegeta)x100. Likewise if a fusion pair is a bad pair, the sync rate can fall below 1, resulting in fusions weaker than their parts (like Gokule or Denku). Since exponents less than 1 result in smaller numbers. This number should be consistent with Elder Kai's statements about the base fusion being "stronger than Super Saiyan". The multiplier is effectively twice that of SS2, to be exact. And based on the anime (filler), Vegito being SS2.5-tier in base makes sense based on his performance against Buu. Though this might be contentious since base Vegito should be stronger than SS3, so maybe it's more like a 200x or 1,000x amp.

[@DjTeeray]

Half way thru the vid and I can see now that dbs goku doesn’t stand a single inch of a chance against gt goku, I always knew gt goku was stronger but I didn’t he was this much stronger

[@blackholephoenix4207]

Buddy...he's not stronger.GT isn't even universal,Super starts being universal by the Battle of Gods arc.

[@DjTeeray]

@@blackholephoenix4207 you’re just helping my point lol, gt is way passed battle of gods in terms of power

[@blackholephoenix4207]

@@DjTeeray and where'd you get that idea? im genuinely curious.

[@hughanderson8876]

My personal view is that SSJ4 should basically be titled as something akin to an ultimate Saiyan form. 'God' if its necessary. Everything else to me is essentially a super saiyan form, and most are needless, they're never adequate as they always need a higher / stronger form. The transformations maybe cool animation and dramatic but as master Roshi did say to Goku in Dragon Ball, 'there's always someone stronger ' so learn humility. SSJ4 often implies throughout the story is that he 'has no limits ' - the indomitable.

[@speedboiae86]

I knew that Rooster Teeth got it wrong they pitted Fusion Dance Gogeta vs Potara Vegetto. Gogeta should have totally won that fight in SSJ4.

[@julez7953]

In the Original Z anime, goku was evenly matched with ultimate gohan inside buus body. A guide book said that inside buu, goku and vegeta were at 1% power due to shrinking. Filler is wank

[@jamainegardner4193]

Look, I'll make an even easier debunk. Goten states Baby when he arrives on Earth is the strongest guy they've faced so far. Goten saw Super Buu. Base Goten > Baby > Super Buu. Buu's absorbtions are additions to his power, so Buuhan is Super Buu + Ultimate Gohan + Piccolo + Goten & Trunks, which effectively totals up to 2.5x Super Buu. That means SSJ Goten when he fought Baby is well over 20x stronger than Buuhan. Base Vegito is relative to Buuhan. Base GT Gohan is stronger than SSJ GT Goten by a significant amount (as Gohan states in subbed that he needs to hold back to not kill his brother). That means Super Vegito is relative to Base GT Gohan. Base GT Goku slapped SSJ GT Gohan. It's not even close. Even taking info from *just* the Baby saga would put Base GT Goku above SSJ3 Z Vegito, nevermind comparing Super Vegito to SSJ4 Goku. Oh, and to top it all off, Goku suggests in the fight with Golden Great Ape Baby that SSJ4 at full strength > a weakened SSJ4 + SSJ3 GT Gotenks, and Base GT Goten / Trunks are *way* more powerful than SSJ3 Buu saga Goku. Plus if you suggest that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, that digs Vegito's grave even more since that means Base GT Goten is stronger than Buuhan and Base Vegito!

[@yes1667]

Just because Goten says baby is stronger than super buu doesn't imply Goten is stronger than super buu????? He's literally just saying that the villian (baby) is stronger than the previous villain he fought (super buu)

[@jamainegardner4193]

@@yes1667 it does when Base Goten casually dunked on Baby while on the phone and only took a minor scratch.

[@ragnarok7452]

I think arguing Baby absorbed Base Rildo's power is better than using Goten statement. Because Baby needs to absorb someone fully to control them and explains he absorbed power of people he took over to Trunks. People can argue he is referring to Tuffle human.

[@jamainegardner4193]

@@ragnarok7452 I was just basing things off of just one arc to prove exactly how much of a mismatch this is.

[@rob6912]

Base goten on kid buu level????

[@jainebiu9647]

Nice mention of GT vegito.

[@rrose9161]

I do consider ssj4s multiplier to be comparable to the potara fusion amplification with vegito being at least a 20,000X multiplier on base goku whereas ssj4 clocks out a 12,000X at least

[@megusta9045]

Didn't Goku used the dragon fist as a SSJ3 in one of the movies with Tapion? I guess not cannon, but still before GT so he knew it.

[@cainabel6356]

The only problem I had with the GT series is the Yin/Yang thing about using the Dragon Balls. I am not saying the Shadow Dragons were bad, they were actually pretty good, but the whole Yin/Yang thing was bad. Everything else was great. Loved the actual transformations of SSJ4 look. It looked like an upgrade from SSJ3. Yeah, DBZ SSJ Vegito is way weaker than SSJ4 Goku.

[@rowan2445]

Even though it kind of makes sense, at the end of the day your fusion multiplier is headcanon.

[@nagiyanagi6501]

People seems to underestimate and forget that base gt goku ( without a tail) in base form is comparable to goku ssj3 in z if not stronger. When gt goku got his tail grow back he achieved a saiyan true potential and boosted all his super saiyan forms. Gt goku ( with a tail) would be much stronger than a ssj3 in z but only half of ssj god as base form x 4000 times when he is a ssj4. I doubt ultra instinct can beat ssj4 unless it become master MI

[@Daniero1994]

Canon in super is a funny thing. Toriyama isn't as involved in DB series as he used to be, he just tells Toei and Toyotaro what is the goal of the story and they make anime and manga how they imagine Goku gets there. Half of DBS anime isn't canon, and the same goes to half of the manga. We have things that overlap which we can guess are the instructions Toriyama told both, but everything else isn't canon.

[@Kleanup_krew01]

Might be a dumb question but why does gt goku still has his tail?

[@de606returns6]

It's cool: He didn't have it at first he gets it back later from a ritual performed by Old Kai to return his tail

[@furiousgamerxz5141]

If you call Elder Kai using a giant pair of tweezers and using it to pull Goku's stub a ritual than sure a ritual was used.

[@mr.knightthedetective7435]

Facts are facts, sequel characters are and MUST be stronger than their previous incarnation so the story can progress and amaze the audience, nuff said

[@bob74h67]

Depends on a case to case basis and how the narrative handles it Just cause new does not mean stronger, we see in boruto that naruto was nerfed as was the case with kratos in God of war 4

[@jocoolshow]

My main issue besides the guide is the fact that he said that Baby saying he has the greatest Saiyan power (with all of Vegeta’s memories) and Goku saying Super Baby 1 had the most awesome Ki he’s ever felt is invalid because Goku and Vegeta don’t know how strong Vegito really is But then, people go on to say that Goku in Super saying not even Fusion could beat Beerus means that Beerus and SSG >>> not even Super Vegito but a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito. Now idk if Ryu believes this personally but a lot of fans do, so it’s extremely hypocritical of anyone that believes one but not the other As for the guide, it’s comparing SSJ4 to the Potara fusion. As for feats, Base GT Goku has comparable or better feats to Buuhan, and has speed feats of blitzing Super Baby 2 who’s mere shockwaves from revenge death ball can blitz people who use Instantaneous Movement after they activated the technique but before they reach their definition even though it’s literally instant so…

[@Big_Bad_Brown75]

22:05 Technically, Goku knew Dragon Fist in the Tapion movie

[@CelticVizard]

"(A+B) x 100" might be easier to read/understand. There's someone who might skip doing the A+B part first.

[@BigMacBurgr]

Ssj3 lowballed GT Goku is already stronger than base Z Vegito at the very beginning. If base z is 125x stronger than ssj3, and base gt = base ssj3 (at beginning) then...actually no, an ssj3 END OF Z goku would be stronger than base z vegito. Not taking into account even the first arc of GT. In fact, if he got 200x stronger by the start of GT, he'd already be stronger than an ssj3 vegito in ssj3. (200x ssj3 goku/EoZ goku, then 400x for ssj3 = 80,000x Z ssj3 goku) Ssj3 First Episode GT Goku > Ssj3 Vegito (using the estimates)

[@BrianAwesome]

Now Ssj3 Vegetto, can prove trouble for Base Gt Goku though...

[@joeysavings4756]

How strong would Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 4 be?

[@DarthKamui]

Pretty much Super Saiyan God/Saiyan Beyond God plus Super Saiyan 4 as a form and in terms of power boosts.

[@meowkitty4849]

I'm pretty sure the misunderstanding for kid buu relating to the entire explanation of how it works being cut from the dub of the anime completely. Kid Buu is the strongest base form of Buu and that is by far. Considering how badly he beats SSJ3 goku he's probably double SSJ3 goku in that form. He's so much stronger than Fat Buu that he beats him like Cell beats Hercule in the Cell Saga. That's because Fat Buu isn't even a Buu and is a kai. Where Super Buu is stronger is the pointless absorbing of characters that are his only competition. It's why Vegito was the only way to stop Super Buu after absorbing every other strong fighter in the series. Vegito is probably stronger than Kid Buu, but he's also way stronger than Buuhan too. It's hard to compare to a char who can trash both forms and is a huge basis in the confusion. The thing is that Kid Buu achieved the most feats of any villain in Z. He successfully destroyed Earth. Something no other villain achieved until GT or Super. He beat every Z fighter at least once. He was the strongest being at the end of Z. Kid Buu is Majin Buu's Purest Form as the universes Evil. What explanation was cut from the dub is that Fat Buu is severely weaker than Evil and Base Super Buu because Buu's power comes from being the manifestation of the universes evil. Thus a lot of the comparisons people make to Fat Buu to Kid Buu are just flatout wrong and explained in the Japanese version of the buu saga. Then they compare Buuhan to him which doesn't really matter because they can't exist at the same time. They forget that there was no answer to Kid Buu that anyone was willing to do when they fight him. Just like there was only 1 answer to the strongest form of Super Buu. In comparison to the fighters they had to fight then Kid Buu was the stronger villain because they didn't want to permanently fuse into Vegito. He trashed every character in the series without absorbing anyone and was about to wipe out the universe when he was beating Goku at the end. Goku only won because of a wish as he was losing to Kid Buu. So it's a matter of perspective. What matters more? The villain having a higher power level, or the Z Fighters having no answer at all to the bad guy. Their best bet was the Spirit Bomb and that technically failed cuz Goku didn't have the power to force it into Kid Buu until the wish. =3

[@II_worm_II]

kid buu isnt the strongest buu at most he is comparable to super buu. kid buu would lose to buutenks and buuhan easily. goku went from fearing super buu and wanting to refuse to seeing kid buu and asking to play rock paper scissors with vegeta to run 1v1s. even goku could tell kid buu was weaker. kid buu was only stated to be the most evil buu not strongest. ultimate gohan could wipe kid buu easily only reason buu didnt have to deal with gohan was he was unconscious from being absorbed, Goku even thought they would use the wish to bring gohan back to fight buu instead of using it to restore his own power. So any character stronger than super buu can kill kid buu. this is going off the manga btw, i ignore the anime cause it does its own thing and messes up scalings. like super sayian goku and vegeta beating ultimate gohan, gotenks ssj3 and piccolo inside of buu

[@meowkitty4849]

@@II_worm_II You mistook my comment pretty much completely. Also your own comment has too much head canon to take seriously. xD The Japanese version of the anime screws up a lot less things than the dub does. The english dub is pretty much where all of the inconsistencies lie. There are entire episodes that got cut from the English dub. So it's not that the anime screws up the scalings, but that the scalings are outright different to begin with. Then when you mix that with mistranslations and misinformation from the dub it creates a nightmare scenario of what to believe or not. For instance one of the episodes that got cut was the one that explained that Buu gains more power based on his Evil. It was meant to explain why absorbing the fat kai weakened him so drastically. He was pure good which doesn't bode well for a being that literally draws it's power from Evil.

[@ssj2sensui]

It's one fact they all forget 10 plus years of training and fighting supercede anything people try to use despite what entity is involved in training

[@M3rtyville]

Dragon Ball Super is a casual continuaty.

[@WhoVicto]

damn huge banger !!

[@sidecharacter3193]

I think vegito in z is as strong as gt ssj4 only if you use pre multiplier retcon for portara Being fighter A times fighter B

[@matthewhernandez8342]

OHHHH YEAAAHHH OOOOOOHHHHHHH YEEEAAAAAAAAHHHHH OHHH YEAAAAAHHH SSJ 4 Guy!

[@SansINess53]

People hates GT because it's boring for them so yeah but the sad thing is that funny they try to say GT goku is a glass lvl but he destroyed a whole void but nobody cares... show some attention to GT..

[@paulhiggins6433]

I would absolutely love to see a fight between Z Vegito against GT Goku though. We know for sure that Vegito was many times stronger than Buuhan since he would just tank Buuhan's attacks like they were nothing. He literally just messed around to bait Buu into absorbing him. I am sure that GT Goku would win, maybe even in base or regular Super Sayian. But it would be a fun as hell fight to watch.

[@hopium999]

ssj4 power is similar to so called "dbs cannon broly" oozaru power in humanoid form, and we'all saw how it did mess up ssjb

[@leodieslewis6968]

Awesome! U hit the 💅 rite on the head

[@kgfoster14]

Feel like the only way to make this valid would be assuming goku somehow stagnates/decreases in power from vegito to the point ssj4 pops up which is a wild argument

[@tilburg8683]

The one thing I know for a fact is that dragon ball power levels make no sense so I'd personally just give up on trying to make sense of them and just have fun with it.

[@PeanutButterGehlee]

The problem on those vs guys is they make everybody fight without a calculation and research at all

[@theganjavape1618]

4:40 thanks for clearing up the air on GT being cannon because people love to say GT isn’t cannon when it takes place in the FUTURE! People don’t seem to understand that Super essentially took a step back in time and added in extra characters and stories that wasn’t in the original timeline. Which means GT can STILL HAPPEN, later on since GT takes place after Z and Super takes place technically during Z. Imagine the GT we’ll get when they include Gods and everything else we’ve gotten in Super. Also thanks for verifying Super Saiyan 4 Goku would STOMP Z Vegito because people don’t seem to think that in a series that’s all about training and getting stronger, that Goku of ALL PEOPLE would be weaker than a fused character from YEARS ago. Especially since he makes up half of said fused character 🤡🤡🤡

[@latrellkidd1101]

Finally someone is right about GT being cannon anything that reference the past after the BUU saga is cannon period

[@shardamus_shay]

Gt Goku Solos all of Z

[@theganjavape1618]

@@shardamus_shay tell that to someone who says GT isn’t canon 🤣

[@arthurhufflepuff4057]

I have a question tho, what about vagito from super even with super saying blue his base from seemed mighty impressive how would the super vagito hold up to ssj4?

[@CornaOnTheCob]

Vegito* not Vagito. If we're just talking base, SSJ4 Goku > Vegito still.

[@arthurhufflepuff4057]

@@CornaOnTheCob sorry for the misspell. Thanks I think I gotta agree to after watching other vids

[@Spartanxxzachxx]

Well considering the ssj4 transformation has a sigular multiplier which is not given by any of the writers but if you go based on the way the first 3 ssj transformations go which is ssj×50 multiplier then ssj2 gives a 2 times multiplier which doubles ssj then ssj3 is 4x ssj2 which is double again so following the path that the writers have taken with the forms then ssj4 would be double ssj3s multipler which would only be a x8 multiplier regardless of the ozaru bc that power isnt stacked on top of the ssj4 transformation it was just the transformation that was required to achieve the ssj4 form. Where as vegeto has more than 1 multiplier boosting his power. First you have the fact that goku and vegetas max power is first added together and then it is multiplied several times thats not even including the 200x multipler he would get in ssj2. Base vegeto was playing with buuhan to piss him off and get him to absorb them so they could rescue their friends and family the only reason vegeto went ssj in the furst place was to further taught buuhan and make him realize winning with strength was impossible so he would absorbe them but vegeto could have ended buuhan in base form. Goku in gt went against rildo and was overpowered in ssj form while rildo is said to be 1.75x stronger than buu so that tells you right there that since goku had to use ssj2 to finally defeat rildo his base form was weaker than buu so his ssj3 form in the baby arc would have been destroyed by base vegito and ssj4 would have needed to be a 200x plus multiplier from ssj3 in order to compete with that and sry but not 1 saiyan transformation is a 200x multiplier on top of the previous transformation

[@hbshadow8981]

Goku didnt use ssj2 against rildo He showed rildo that ssj was more than enough for him as powering up to ssj2 briefly, pushed rildo back before reverting back into an ssj