SSTO into an SSRT

[@smartalecgaming3358]

I love this ssto vs ssrt stuff. It reminds me of those car guys who love ‘MERICAN made classic cars because of raw power and stuff instead of going for fuel efficiency/sustainability. But this is actually cool because it’s spaceships.

[@PuncakeLena]

Silly people! You can have both power and efficiency in when you go Japanese! Also reliable!

[@iainbagnall4825]

@@PuncakeLena wellll this is all getting very off topic... but the size vs revs/tech argument/domestic vs japanese is pretty 1990s. These days everyone is going for smaller engines, more compression/forced induction. Can't really escape the fact that a small v6 with a turbo can deliver big v8 power at altitude/boost, and lower fuel economy when not in boost like a smaller engine. My 2000 miata gets about 25 mpg and 140bhp at the crank. We inherited a 2019 jetta recently that gets about 40mpg and 140bhp at the crank. New V6 tundra is same story. etc etc. Meanwhile my 2011 toyota tundra gets like 10mpg on a good day. I know people who've dropped V6s and V8s into Miatas and actually get better fuel economy on them due to longer gearing, lower revs etc etc. To bring this all back to Kerbal - weight, and aerodynamics make a much bigger impact on efficiency than the specific engine technology ;) One of my favourite things to do in kerbal these days is seeing just how tiny I can make a space vehicle, especially unmanned ones. That tiny okto probe core is my favourite these days. Its amazing the delta v you gain when you start aggressively weight reducing your designs and going for max simplicity.

[@OzzieBo]

‘Speed and power.’ -Jeremy Clarkson.

[@proneturnip]

everybody sing along, you know the words: 'SSRT or Single Stage Rocket Technology is terminology coined by McDonnell Douglas before they became Boeing and terminology that was used way before SSTO was even a thing'

[@h.a.9880]

As far as I understand, the terms SSRT and SSTO are technically interchangeable, but I really dig the differentiation between SSRTs (using Lf+ox) and SSTOs (plane-like crafts with air-breathing engines) Vaos does. That SSRT conversion of that spaceplane looks absolutely marvelous.

[@vaos3712]

😁

[@fork9001]

So, the X1 plane is a SSRT…….. this completely changes everything

[@Mine0Taur]

Thank you VAOS. Thanks to your videos, I finally, after hundreds of attempts and tens of different spaceplane designs, managed to fly an SSTO to Minmus today. And it was ridiculous! All it took for me was replacing my shock intakes with nose cones to gain over 1000 d/v. All thanks to you, who taught me drag was even a thing in KSP.

[@hypervious8878]

That's all it took?? Now that is fascinating...

[@eekee6034]

Wow! I should definitely take some intakes off my monster. EDIT: Found my notes. I did try it, halving the number of intakes from 12 to 6, and got a 0.4% improvement with shock cones and 0.7% with ramp intakes. Huh! Edit #2: Looked at my notes again; thinking I might just have been noting the weight difference. Will have to try it.

[@fenriders7008]

Do note that you can close the shock intakes and they act like the nose cones, I’m not sure they provide as low of a drag coefficient but it’s a marked improvement over leaving them open, use the aero overlay and have a look at the difference.

[@eekee6034]

@@fenriders7008 Yeah. I actually forgot to close the intakes in my shocks v. ramps test. I think I just have too many intakes, but it would be easier to test that by closing intakes than rebuilding 6 2-engine nacelles. Thanks for the reminder.

[@notasgood459]

This is awesome. I’ve recently rediscovered your channel after like 5 years and I remember building your VTOL craft way way back in the day. So thank you for still existing! Also, would you ever take on a challenge where you build a spaceplane on the runway (I.e. Thunderbirds Zero-X spaceplane?). It’s totally unconventional and just the kind of thing I think you’d enjoy!!

[@hypervious8878]

You know what would make that really cool? If Vaos did that with fan submitted craft files. First, put out a tender to for craft component to fulfill (x) function (full body; lift-producing body, powerplant, cargo container, etc), then assess and analysis competing submissions, and then the winning submissions are assembled in-situ on runway. And then maybe face-off wtih runner-up submissions...

[@normalhuman9260]

I work construction myself,only been playing ksp for a few months now but I'm in love. Just wanted to say I really really enjoy your videos. You are very endearing and funny as well as talented as crap at this game. Thanks for all the content,tips,and ideas.

[@JollyRogerAerospace]

Dammit stop making me want to play KSP again.

[@vaos3712]

😈😈😈😈😈

[@AlexJohnsonSays]

I was going through my likes from 7 years ago and found an old video of yours I'd liked. Thought I'd check your channel and see if it's gone the way of Macey Dean or something. Pleasantly surprised to see you still playing, and floored by the increase in production value! Keep putting out content! I plan on tuning back in!

[@crazyshak4827]

Very cool build! I'm looking forward to seeing some of your other conversions, especially for cargo spaceplanes. Also, your verbal outtakes always make me chuckle :P

[@WasatchWind]

I'm really excited for KSP 2 - not just for new features, but hopefully a lot more attention for KSP KZbin!

[@firebird-two-one]

This did not age well

[@WasatchWind]

@@firebird-two-one You are very brave for stating the obvious 👏👏👏👏👏

[@firebird-two-one]

@@WasatchWind ok random passive aggressiveness

[@kirbyis4ever]

Being stuck with work and school for a bit, I hadn't been able to watch a lot of your videos! But just taking 5 minutes from this your script writing and editing has gotten much more dynamic!

[@rdx1419]

5:52 fucking SICK! Definitely the most attractive part of literally any SSRT imo

[@oberonpanopticon]

The first and only SSTO I ever made was an SSRT, I think it had 5 aerospikes and a whole lotta delta wings. Literally zero payload capacity lol.

[@howardxu8050]

Well from my experience, ssrt is better for small to medium weight class, but due to diminishing returns of fuel to thrust at higher amounts, air breathing sstos wins out at the heavy class as you don’t need to carry as much oxidiser, and using the more efficient air breathing mode to build speed instead

[@vaos3712]

Actually, when it comes to fuel efficiency only , Air breathing SSTO are extremely efficient whether it be small or large. SSRT are fuel guzzlers. However they excel at getting into orbit quickly and easily.

[@crucialbeatle7935]

Hey you finally got it nice and refined!

[@AHHHHHHHH21]

H̸e̸l̸l̸o̸, c̸r̸u̸i̸c̸i̸a̸l̸. 𝕀'𝕞 𝕓𝕒𝕔𝕜

[@GABRIEL-ej4ei]

SSRT's are cool and easy to fly, the lunch doesn't take nowhere near as long as an SSTO which are so many good points but SSTO in my eyes are just cooler. Unlike SSTO with a good build you get the advantages of both side of the coins, the atmosphere and the final but to reach orbit. I think that the challenges of making an SSTO and it's great efficiency and copacity just makes SSTO cooler in my eyes.

[@Ted-12]

Beautiful, and very good camera work. Indeed SSRTs are cool but their usefulness is another matter. The payload that they can get up in orbit looks to me to be the same as a one stage rocket. The benefit is that they can land on the runway and be retrieved. Air breathing SSTOs can get a lot of tonage up there without needing to be very big and of course you land and retrieve them as well. I got a video of one but since I'm very new to KZbin the audio is awful 😅.

[@vaos3712]

ya, it gets to a point where anything over 300 tons or more can more easily be put into orbit with just a conventional rocket. The more tonnage the payload, the harder it is for a conventional air breathing SSTO because of the weak thrust that comes from air breathing engines. I once made a 300 ton payload air breathing SSTO , but it took almost 20 minutes to get into orbit riding the thin atmosphere. Needless to say I was not impressed.

[@Ted-12]

@@vaos3712 then I guess I got lucky, mine is a 300 ton as well but it's easy to fly it gets up in 5 minutes you just have to point it at the beginning at a 5° angle over the horizon and it flies on its own.

[@NickBDesigns]

Lovely! I’m excited to see which ssto’s will make it into the ssrt I wonder if the delta v difference is huge

[@johnthebricklayer8989]

What a sales pitch ! Ever thought of selling cars?......😉..Love ya work!

[@wxb200]

This video is my new favorite of your channel!

[@PixelPals22-d5f]

give this man a rocket building degree already

[@raymondsims537]

i forget where but i've heard of a concept of eject able jet engines and using the same landing system they used on the mars rovers (airbags) to make the recoverable

[@kryspy8761]

Always Amazing

[@whataname2517]

These are great! I would love to see you do a ssto or ssrt that can mine and refuel itself once landed in one of your videos

[@trex6325]

SSRT is just a rocket with extra steps

[@neves5083]

Yay the engineer is back

[@marfitrblx]

good video man!

[@AHHHHHHHH21]

Hey, vaos, what's up. Haven't watched a lot of your vids for a while, but now that I'm back.... G̸o̸o̸d̸ l̸u̸c̸k̸

[@aq_ua]

I for one am a major fan of classic rocket type SSRTs, I just think they look cool as heck as compared to spaceplanes, not that I mind spaceplanes, I just think a single lil' rocket is way cooler

[@unidentifiedbiomass4106]

It seems like the difference is not much at all when you get into really big space planes. Have to use a ton of airbreathing engines to get heavy stuff into orbit anyway

[@eekee6034]

I've _so_ got to publish and/or video my Trixwing 2 some day. 12 Whiplash engines, 1 Rhino. Some 3.75m, some Mk2, lots of Mk3. 6 wings. It looks like a weird gawkish bird, but takes off like the English Electric Lightning. Or almost like the Dove if you're more familiar with KSP's stock planes. How efficient is it? Welllll, it can get to a high-ish orbit, but despite all the big fuel tanks, Mun is just too far. :) I'm experimenting with having it carry a nuclear tug into orbit.

[@dewolfeFSP]

I want to see an efficient orbital space plane that uses cheap solids to get up to orbit.

[@majormissile5596]

So long as you recover all of the parts then it's not too expensive as far as KSP is concerned.

[@Dirtnap_McDinglestuffer]

that's badass. 🤯 i have a bad habit of accidentally building sstr(single stage to revert) 🤣

[@scottwilliams846]

Question. Do ramjets (Whiplash Engines) work on Duna? The answer is probably no, but I thought I'd ask before I decided to strand anyone there.

[@Nagib23_32]

I use "spaceplanes" to haul passengers and small cargo to orbit. They're small so don't take a long time to build and test. However, for the large cargos, I use exclusively my "ULS (universal launch system)". Of course they're not nearly as effecient, but they're a LOT easier to build and barely require any testing. Yes, the costs are 3-4 times higher, but what really is an extra 150k in a mission that costs 1.5 million?

[@ericgonzalez934]

😎👍 cool video

[@Imarius086]

Wow. This got me thinking: What about staged rocket planes? Instead of regular staged rockets, that is.

[@AssistantCoreAQI]

Space Shuttle.

[@Imarius086]

@@AssistantCoreAQI Nah, I mean like all stages do have wings. Space shuttle takes off like a conventional rocket

[@johnroscoe2406]

Roll that beautiful bean footage:

[@Hisu0]

I really don't get the point of, should I say, conventional SSTO. Yeah, they're a bit more economical - until you realise you have to land the damn thing. So I wonder. What if it's a niche thing? A very specific niche? A space vessel that only uses ONE type of fuel? I've tried repurposing some of the stock craft and making my own, but even though I finally managed to put it into orbit only using liquid fuel and nothing else, I don't have much left for payload and return, so I again wonder if it's viable after all. Would be nice to see something that only uses liquid fuel, but can deliver something like 10 tons to the near kerbin orbit (though ideally, to Mun), then safely get back and land without calculating the entry point.

[@fenriders7008]

I have an 18t to 120km parking orbit SSTO that uses only LF, uses 4 nerva and 8 rapiers. Fair bit of clipping is needed, otherwise the drag makes it untenable. Payload size is also rather limited in terms of diameter.

[@Hisu0]

@@fenriders7008 That's the idea, though: no clipping, no mods, no cheating it in any other way. I've got 4 rapiers + 3 nerva that can deliver a few tons to 100+ km orbits, but getting it back safely is quite a hassle, because it gets to those orbits with barely enough fuel to land, so I have to use inclined orbits or wait a lot for the space center to be directly below me. So in principle, yeah, it can be done even without clipping, but I feel like I'm missing something and it _can_ be a viable means of transportation.

[@Moonbow826]

In my testing I found winged SSRT and non winged SSRT both viable for low orbit missions, but if you're going further you should dich the wings, because they are just extra mass. If we're talking about an SSTE, then your best option is an SSRT without wings (and yes its better than a rapier SSTO). As much as I hate to admit it wings are overrated. Another thing to point out is that a well designed SSRT without wings is actually more versatile since it can land on any piece of flat land and doesn't need a runway. I am using FAR tho, but I have a lot of experience with the stock game too.

[@eekee6034]

I love the look of wings, but every time I see a non-VTOL spaceplane land on Duna I'm like, "Hnng! The poor landing gear!" lol

[@romanr1592]

I do agree that SSRT's make more sense than traditional SSTO's, but that's only because traditional SSTO's make very little sense to begin with. Real SSTO's are of the ultra efficient kind, that's the only reason to do it, and if that's too slow and boring, well, that is a fair point.

[@blipboop5594]

Great video as always! But your use of these acronyms is really confusing. SSTOs do not have to be airbreathing or even have wings, many irl concepts like the DC-X do not. The only requirement is that they don't drop any stages. And as far as I can tell Single Stage Rocket Technology is a synonym of SSTO

[@vaos3712]

I believe the only difference between the two is that ssto means anything that can go into space without staging, whereas ssrt means only a craft with a rocket engine. Hell if you could fire a projectile into orbit with a powerful enough mass driver , that could technically be an SSTO.😁

[@hypervious8878]

@@vaos3712 an interesting (if a little tragic) fellow name Gerard Bull tried to do exactly that. He was inspired as a child to develop the most economically possible cannon-launched orbiter by Jules Verne's From the Earth to Moon (title?), and developed a career in ballistics and artillery design in pursuit of that dream. He came close I think in a US-Navy project, until funding dried up. Tragic because while his dream was for peaceful ends, he lost himself chasing it, taking his talents (and proprietary + classified knowledge) to the only person left with the money and vision to fund it: Saddam Hussein. The move won him a bullet from a hit squad.

[@nolan20expert]

What's the music at 13:40?

[@vaos3712]

its the science menu screen music in ksp

[@mast3r-633]

when did you make that f22 looking ssrt

[@cmbaz1140]

So...according to VAOS Virgin SSTO vs Chad SSRT... 🤔

[@illegalgamer7045]

Matcho mitcho

[@lunarmodule757]

Epic

[@CNWPlayer]

It's a SSRO or a SSTT

[@Jkauppa]

dont have drag, just use air as the oxidizer

[@Jkauppa]

air rocket

[@Jkauppa]

scissor folding wings, f-14 style, but up to rocket shape, fold completely away

[@Jkauppa]

variable wing angle plane to rocket, so that you mach 6 with minimal wings at rocket shape, like the x-17 nasa air rocket

[@Jkauppa]

so you have to get to mach 6 (2400m/s) inside the full atmosphere

[@howardxu8050]

Well the issue is that robotic servos in game is too weak/not rigid enough to survive the aerodynamic forces

[@bennyellis3512]

I loved it😄 all save the explicit language🤪😬

[@DoremiFasolatido1979]

And...it's all never going to be a thing in real life.

[@hypervious8878]

Maybe. Was about to say 'check out the Skylon with its SABRE engines' - but its starting to do the fusion-power thing, perpetually being 'just another 5 years away' year after year after year...(even if it does legitimately look truly promising). ArcSpace's (sp?) monopropellent powered areospike launcher promised to be legit SSRT until it was evidently a facade. Tim Dodd (The everyday astronaut) is not at all a believer in SSTO technology, and he presents a good case for why, even if the technology becomes available.

[@coolchadname9433]

What is an ssrt

[@vaos3712]

1:15 👍

[@coolchadname9433]

Thank you

[@mariasirona1622]

What's the difference anyway

[@vaos3712]

both have there pros and cons but i like the ssrt more really.

[@guillaumefigarella1704]

dude ssrt means shit, they are called single stage to orbit, you are confusing people

[@vaos3712]

Google Single Stage Rocket Technology. Thank you.

[@guillaumefigarella1704]

@@vaos3712 I did and the first result was ssto on Wikipedia, you're acting like a craft that's not air breathing and winged is not an ssto, that's just untrue and confusing, just call it an rocket powered ssto or an air breathing ssto if you really want to separate them, you confused a friend of mine who tried to argue the Convair Nexus was not an ssto concept but a "single stage rocket technology" which mean didly squats

[@vaos3712]

@@guillaumefigarella1704 secure.boeingimages.com/archive/DC-X-Delta-Clipper-Single-Stage-Rocket-Technology-2F3408EKOGF.html

[@vaos3712]

apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA265940

[@vaos3712]

@@guillaumefigarella1704 archive.org/details/SSRTBrochure