St. John of the Cross and the Dark Night: CarmelCast Episode 11

St. John of the Cross is a spiritual master and Doctor of the Church. His image of the Dark Night has captivated the imaginations of Christians throughout the centuries. He shows us that darkness and suffering, when endured with love, has meaning and will transform us into saints. In this episode, Fr. Michael-Joseph of St. Thérèse is joined by Br. John-Mary of Jesus Crucified to discuss St. John's teaching on the Dark Night.
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[@ICSPublications]

ICS Publications sells The Collected Works of St. John of the Cross for a great price! But we know that this 814-page book can be intimidating, so we highly recommend one of Fr. Marc Foley's reflection books which make St. John accessible through contemporary images and definitions. www.icspublications.org/collections/john-of-the-cross

[@haleyphillips448]

My boyfriend wants to get into Carmelite spirituality/tradition, should he start with the biography of St. John Of The Cross (on the ICS website) or Foley’s “Reflections” - OR The Ascent of Mt. Carmel?

[@ICSPublications]

@@haleyphillips448 it depends a lot on his personality and where he feels the Lord is calling him to begin. The Ascent of Joy is a good introduction to the life and writings of St. John of the Cross that could perhaps be a good starting point if he doesn't want to dive right into the Complete Works. Or, perhaps he should consider reading St. Therese's Story of a Soul or St. Teresa's The Book of Her Life for a different aspect of Carmelite spirituality.

[@abassage655]

This was a wonderful first sip Thank you so much!!

[@millybergh4649]

Love the camaraderie between these two men of God

[@ccloutier1586]

Life gives us so many temporary reliefs, God's Love gives us permanent relief.

[@pamelasmithson4303]

I appreciate Carmel Cast so much. Thank you making these informative and inspiring videos.

[@rsmyth75]

What shocked me was that he was not talking about the dark night I experienced as a drug addict!!! But as I recovered, one day in a book store the title caught my eye and I picked it up to see what he meant, thinking he was talking about what I had experienced in the depth of my addiction. But this is where I came to realize that he was talking about after your conversion that you feel abandoned spiritually! What he meant was after the sweet comfort of my conversion the comfort dried up put I needed to still be faithful. Like even when the sun is blocked by storm clouds, I know the sun is sill there, shining gloriously!!!! My faith is a intellectual ascent as much as emotional... St John pray for me!!!

[@carlf2842]

@rsmyth75 can you expand on your journey.

[@DanielBurns1987]

I am glad we both renewed our faith and spirituality. God and light is always with us even our darkest of hours. I felt blessed to see the sunrise the day after I had my dark night of the soul. Stay blessed my friend.

[@tonyhayes9827]

I am the Roman soldier hammering this man’s hand to the cross. This so-called King of the Jews; oh dear…... He looks at me and I am aware that; my next breath is coming from Him; my next heart beat is coming from Him; that without Him, whom I am crucifying, I have no life in me. I’m stunned. I slump down onto the earth beneath me, staring at Him. My mind is numb; everything I have ever known is snubbed out. He’s dead, I’m still alive, I don’t understand. I dismiss Him and return to what I know and normal life. But this awareness hunts me wherever I flee. Why did you show me your face? It only serves to draw me into darkness.

[@podatus1098]

I’m loving getting to know more about how Carmelites live their charism!

[@g0dsboy]

What I love about st John of the cross is his great understanding of the interior life of prayer and the different levels of prayer and detachment plus he’s my conformation saint 🔥💯❤️

[@grecopena]

It’s inspiring to see your youth and commitment to follow the Christ experience. Blessings to you in your journey. Live your prayer. 🙏🏼

[@juniorrodriguez1307]

Brother John made reference to the poems sang in Spanish by Amancio Prada album Canciones del Alma. This was a game changer in my younger years it is truly the art of spiritual life transformed into music capable of touching souls. I recommend it to everyone even if you don't understand Spanish.

[@rosafelice1377]

YES, God IS so much better!!! 🌹🌹🌹

[@DebbieKoch]

You both rocked St. John of the Cross! Thank you and God bless you for these CarmelCast discussions - so helpful.

[@jytte1689]

Thank you VERY MUCH! ❤️🙏

[@conniekriewaldt6373]

Most insightful presentation. Makes this great saint more accessible.

[@suzannal6047]

I always thought that the Dark Night of the Soul was referring to feeling as though you are totally abandoned by God in your trials and tribulations, especially if you are a living under many trials and tribulations that never seem to end and eventually you lose your peace..... You don't lose your faith but you really truly feel as though God has abandoned you and you feel unworthy and worst of all you feel Unforgiven. I had been going through that now for about a year-and-a-half and it is indeed anguish!

[@markballantyne393]

We must walk as christ did in righteous action, engage in righteous action, and suffer for our righteous actions .to imagine in our our Hearts and minds all that god commands us to do ,and simply to agree, and praise god for his wisdom ,in our hearts,jesus teaches is to bury our talent in the mud

[@DebbieKoch]

Thank you so much for this great discussion on the Dark Night, upon which you shed so much light. Thanks also for these CarmelCast discussions. What a great way to evangelize Carmelite spirituality!

[@theonlymeaning]

What a great way to evangelize the Lord Jesus !

[@PrisonMike-_-]

I've speculated that its popularity can also be attributed to people's desire to make meaning of their depression or sadness or inconveniences. I think really encountering a season of a "dark night" isn't so common and truly happens to those who seek humbly the face of God

[@ICSPublications]

I think you're right, Aidan, although I don't know if it's entirely a bad thing. God does seem to use all human suffering for the sake of purification if our response is one of faith and trust.

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

​​@@ICSPublicationsin full agreement here with you. I have been meditating for 13 years now daily, and nearly every time I encounter a difficult dark night, it ends up becoming illuminating and I become filled with gratitude for the suffering and the purification that comes with it. That being said it took a long time to truly use these opportunities to their fullest potential.

[@katfalls]

I liked the part of Pope JP II. He showed us joy in suffering. That was hard for me to comprehend at the time, but as I look back I can see it so clearly. Thank you.

[@marietrafford1328]

Naturally

[@stu5385]

Darkness in modern life, i myself have gone through this darkness, through anxiety, depression and panic attacks, for i did not know at the time that it was part of a process of being forgetfulness, as we all see with our own eyes and feel with the flesh, nurture through the food we eat, but we tend for us to forget that we leave our spiritual path to the hunger of of what our own eyes see and feels, because we don't understand of the unseen of the soul, if we walk alone we will stumble for we act in a way of selfishness, we look outward of the soul instead of inwards, for each of us as we have free will, we still need guidance, if we rely on our minds alone we will still feel empty and we just live on our heart alone we suffer loneliness, faith in a way helps to bring both together to make it as one with God for one can't live without the other, so we search with all with our heart, mind, body and soul to reconnect with God that is what is missing and that is the truth of who we are in a true relationship, for we can not live by bread alone, when we come to the cross-roads in life we must in our heart and mind choose what road to take, as very lovely Mother told me many years ago, if you hope to get rid of the things that hold you back in life, learn to forgive through prayer and the cross for that is your cross-road.

[@simonreinart]

Thank you!

[@barbaras7994]

Thank you for that very thoughtful and insightful presentation.

[@cristinanieto683]

Beautiful! Thank you.

[@g0dsboy]

There is a album of the poems of St. John by John Michael Tolbet

[@ralph7545]

You guys rock ! This is such a great way to evangelize the masses. Look 4ward to more. Thank you and God bless.

[@bonniemcgrath2406]

Thank you! God Bless you!

[@gardoblado6810]

Thank you for such an enlightening discussion!

[@annamaypurcell2111]

Thank you both so very much!, You Look like Twins!

[@theonlymeaning]

Returning.............. to Mass tomorrow morning.

[@stephengonzalez9910]

So great. Thank you so much for this today, I really needed this. The both of you are awesome, I admire the both of you, your faith is very strong. God bless everyone here! I'll keep everyone in my prayers!

[@LynnsYouTube]

Great video!! I'd love for y'all to do an in depth study on here of his books. Or if you had an online class, I'd be in!!

[@Spetet]

Hilarious! You guys cracked me up. St John's quote about putting love where there is no love is a good place to start people.

[@Lcoreyful]

Extremely enlightening. Thank you

[@christinewolfteigen7581]

Thank you. I really appreciated ththis video

[@gregjs9665]

I’ve just been learning about John Paul ll and Theology of the Body for the past few days (branching out from my Protestantism a bit 😊). Found your video after hearing that he wrote his dissertation on John of the Cross. So it really came full circle for me that your video was taped on JPll’s feast day and that you ended your very interesting discussion talking about him.

[@caroltaylor3261]

Today being the memorial of St. John of the Cross, was the perfect opportunity to listen to your podcast as well as view this video. Beautiful homily at mass this morning and your explanations make it clear as to the darkness St. John of the Cross experienced and the darkness and suffering we may feel. Thank you for expertise on St. John of the Cross.

[@ICSPublications]

God bless you, Carol!

[@kennyinliverpool]

I've never had a dark night of the soul. So it's interesting to learn about this type of thing.

[@josephfernandes2957]

At first the audio of dark night of the soul was out of my understanding, thank you so much for making it simpler with examples,

[@willbyrd8584]

For the last month I have found myself especially drawn to St. John of The Cross ... and the time of suffering Ive been living with has been SO very dfferent from like depression and hope;essness. As painful as this time has been, there is such a deep sense of purpose and leading, and for that I am deeply grateful. Just found your broadcast and your coversation is SO spot on for events and my own expriencing this dark night! I'm reminded of the question asked by Valerie Kaur: "Is this the darkness of the tomb .. or is it the darkness of the wmb?" It seems to me that maybe the anser is: both.

[@littleflower518]

Brother, the beginning of this of podcast had me laughing because when my husband saw the first episode THIS season, he thought Father was YOU! 😁

[@alicerhea4432]

Beautiful intro music😊

[@edwindeleon1130]

without god anything is permisble. im with god

[@amaraheising4672]

Beautiful...and yes I thought they were twins!

[@deltatango2581]

Love the video! I learned about St John of the Cross and St Teresa of Avila through a book produced by the Carmelites- Divine Intimacy. Are you familiar with this book? It looks to to have been published in the 1950s or 60s, and is a series of daily readings. I've had a it awhile and tried to start reading it for Lent.

[@carlworden672]

Thank you for the wonderful and highly informative series. In what order would you recommend the works of St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila be read? Thanks again.

[@ICSPublications]

Carl, it really varies based on the person. Depending on which of the saints you are feeling particularly drawn to, I would recommend starting with either St. Teresa's "The Book of Her Life" or St. John's "Spiritual Canticle."

[@luliperez226]

❤️❤️❤️🙏

[@sidneymcgill9179]

A simple introduction to St. John of the Cross' Dark Night of the Soul. Well appreciated. I would however want a more specific way of differentiating depression from the "dark night of the soul" Can depression also be one of a plethora of negative experiences that could contribute to the goal of this spiritual experience: union with God?

[@ICSPublications]

Thanks for the comment, Sidney. Because it's such an individualized experience, I think only a spiritual director could help someone discern whether they are experiencing depression and/or the Dark Night. It's very hard to make generalized rules to differentiate because it's going to be so different on a case-by-case basis. Yes, as you said, depression can certainly be one of a plethora of negative experiences that could lead to union with God if responded to in faith and love. God uses all things (the good and the bad) to lead us closer to Him.

[@DWoo-ke9gb]

I wish I could live in a monastery

[@frederickmarcos8958]

🙏🙏❤👍

[@elfandi]

VUELVE ESPAÑA MADRID IGLESIAS SAN JUAN DE CRUZ SANTA TERESITA DE JESÚS VIRGEN CARMEN PADRE CARMELITAS

[@elfandi]

Jaime carles meaurio joseph michael vuelve madrid España 🇪🇸 iglesias san juan de la Santa 6:44 teresita de jesús virgen carmen padres camelitas

[@celestin777]

Question, can the Dark Night actually overlap with mental illness like depression?

[@jo_lopez]

At first instance, I thought the priest and brother are twins.. 😅 But I enjoyed the talk tho...

[@ov1967]

@ICS Publications: Thanks ! Where can I find the other episodes?

[@ICSPublications]

kzbin.infovideos

[@dfgodfirst7884]

💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓💓

[@carlf2842]

I notice on these videos it seems not possible to respond to individuals comments. Just a heads up.

[@paulh4699]

How does John of the Cross define Soul?

[@ICSPublications]

John of the Cross loosely follows a Thomistic-Aristotelian anthropological framework. He would say that the human person is a body-soul composite, so the soul would be every aspect of a person that is immaterial. However, since John sees no dichotomy between the body and soul he often uses the term soul to refer to the entire human person with an emphasis on the spiritual dimension. Put a little more simply: the soul is all of you that is not your body (mind, desires, intellect, memory, will, etc.). I hope this helps!

[@SuperRuthJ]

I thought you were twins.

[@willowwainwright7843]

Not to be strange l am baptized and confirmed Catholic and l need a bit of ad vice ...

[@simianshakenspere7334]

please

[@markballantyne393]

The difference is those we call mystics actually went out and did suffer, they weren't privileged people not in adversity, who imagine suffering, from petty, trivial annoyances. To follow jesus is act like jesus and suffer as he did ,reading books and studying you whole life ,jesus tells us is burying your talent in the mud.

[@ICSPublications]

You're right, Mark! To spend your life reading books and studying without letting it change your heart - change the way you love God and love others - is certainly to bury your talent in the mud. Jesus was a teacher, but he taught primarily through the witness of His life!

[@user-fg3fv9hl3b]

Suffering of all levels in people is worthy of bringing one closer, one doesn't need to suffer extreme conditions to find meaning.

[@simontsegay2661]

Are you twins