Standalone programmer for WCH Microcontrollers WCH-MCU-DL

[@matthewvenn]

1:04 great to see you're putting the QC stickers to good use!

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Couldn't resist - but next time do them on paper - so hard to see the text on the prismatic - took ages to get a readable photo!

[@kevdel]

Quality Control Is "Not too Bad".. love it

[@R.Daneel]

In my experience, that includes "the ground wire is just flopping around inside, but they left it long enough for me to actually attach". A+! eBay stuff has changed "Don't turn it on, take it apart" from a catch-phrase into a critical safety step.

[@SeanBZA]

@@R.Daneel A lot of the cheap stuff I regard as a kit that was supplied assembled, so you have a rough idea of how it goes together. Including $10k stuff, where it worked sort of, but after taking it apart, cleaning out the casting sand left in there, and replacing a few of the more dodgy looking cables (using a red, white and green 3 core cable to carry 3 phase power to a motor, and using a wire that would struggle to measure 0.5mm per core), and tightening all the screws, plus replace the mystery stuff that they called oil in the gearboxes (OK the second one that was more because it went through the motor and wrote it off, fully sealed gearbox used the motor seal as the vent spot, and of course motor was at the bottom) with something that was not actually black, smelly like gutter oil, and lubricating, it worked really well. Not much could be done with the control system, who uses 36VAC in industrial logic, but this one they did. Ended up having a sort of hybrid, replacement coils were 24VAC, easy to get, and lasted well, but the Chinese counters and switches ran off the 36VAC. Short of replace all the counters and contactors, plus do some surgery on inverter drives, not going to do. Did replace the very useless voltmeter, which had a thin single insulated pair of wires running to the front panel, connected to 2 phases of the mains, and with no fuse at all, other than the wires catching fire. That hole got a counter added, totally volt free contact added via a microswitch, and a self contained counter from RS, which came with the display saying "SLEEPING", till you first pressed reset. Good for 15 years, and no way at all to change the coin cell inside, but likely to run for 30 anyway.

[@Lemon_Inspector]

The "remove after washing" sticker is a nice touch. Now that's quality!

[@rocketman221projects]

It helps to quiet down the annoying beeper. Some foil HVAC tape works better though.

[@r7boatguy]

Glad to see you back in action! Are you able to show us the flip dot doohickey you were working on??

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I've not done anything on it since

[@sdgelectronics]

Looks ideal for low cost projects. The PICs I normally use seem to have really started to creep up in price.

[@wolpumba4099]

*Summary* *Introduction to the Programmer* - 0:00 Introduction to the standalone programmer for WCH microcontrollers. - 0:07 Focus on CH32V3, a very cheap RISC-V microcontroller. - 0:12 Importance of the video due to lack of information and documentation gaps. *Purchasing the Correct Programmer* - 0:34 Importance of buying the correct programmer version for the CH32V3. - 0:39 Four varieties available; need the one based on the 208, not the 103. - 1:01 Two versions of the 208 programmer: a 5V version and a universal voltage version. *Programmer Interface and Initial Usage* - 1:33 Interface is in Chinese, but it's not an issue due to simplicity. - 1:38 The button function is straightforward, with colors indicating status. - 2:02 Special features include a programming count and encrypted file generation. *Advanced Features for Production* - 2:07 Option to set a programming count for production control. - 3:04 Integration into an automatic programming jig with logic level inputs and outputs. *Pricing and Accessories* - 3:22 The programmer's affordability and what is included (power supply and cables). - 3:40 Observation on power jack compatibility issues. *Behavior and Connection Insights* - 4:00 Programmer behaves differently based on data connection through USB. - 4:22 Requires power-only USB or separate power after downloading for standalone mode. - 4:36 Inclusion of a possibly unnecessary USB A-to-A cable. *External Features and Programming Details* - 4:52 Presence of a wireless antenna and various headers for different functionalities. - 5:18 An on/off switch that only controls incoming power from the side jack. *Programming Process and Power Supply Options* - 5:23 Discussion about powering the target device and starting the programmed code. - 5:57 Demonstration of programming the target device and observing LED behavior. *Using the dl_Pub Tool for File Preparation* - 6:05 Introduction to the dl_Pub tool for selecting device and generating a special file. - 6:47 Setting the programming attempt timeout and count limits. - 7:02 Loading user files (hex files) and creating the special bin file for programming. - 7:40 Creating data key files for uploading to the programmer. *Transferring Data Key Files to the Programmer* - 7:47 Using MCU UPD Tool.XE to load the data key file into the programmer. - 8:15 Confirming successful download to the programmer. - 8:22 The need to disconnect the data connection before programming can start. *Programming and Testing the Target Device* - 8:25 Checking the loaded file's name, check sum, and size on the programmer. - 8:34 Programming operation and power cycle required to start the new code. - 9:00 Demonstration of the programming count limit in action. *Changing Programming Files and Further Observations* - 9:07 Explanation of loading a new file for different LED flash speed. - 9:42 Observing the changed flash code in action on the target board. *Overcoming Programming Challenges* - 9:44 Handling issues with DLL not found by copying required files. - 10:01 Describing the challenge of right protection after programming and how to disable it. *Conclusion and Final Thoughts* - 10:40 Summing up the benefits of the programmer, especially in a subcontractor scenario. - 10:57 Encouragement to share additional information in the comments. - 11:08 Closing remarks with plans to update the description after testing a different version of the programmer. Disclaimer: I used gpt4-1106 to summarize the video transcript. This method may make mistakes in recognizing words

[@porklaser]

Lots of micros with a USB host port can be programmed from that port in DFU mode. It's easy to use one of those A to A cables in an assembled board (Or a standard A to C cable if your computer has a C port) You see this in those low cost 'Gotek' floppy emulators.

[@nlhans1990]

That programming limit does seem flawed, even if the binary is unretrievable from the programmer itself. What stops someone from sniffing the SWD wires during a programming session? Is there are any decoding happening on the target chip itself? If not.. then the plain binary code can be sniffed and decoded with a 10$ USB LA is my guess.

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Nothing is foolproof - any security can be defeated given sufficient time & skill, but it at least makes it harder. The cost of the LA is irrelevant, it's the skill of the person using it.

[@nlhans1990]

@@mikeselectricstuff That's very true, it will atleast deter the simplest of clones. Someone with the skills to extract firmware from the LA trace can probably spend his/her efforts on product design as well

[@danielegger6460]

Pretty sure the only reason to choose the MCU package is to check that you're actually staying within the bounds of the available flash. In STM32F0 lingo F4P6 meant TSSOP-20 package and 16kB of Flash... not sure it's the same with WCH but I wouldn't be surprised.

[@flipschwipp6572]

Nice, a standalone programmer could be handy for a range of µCs. Maybe such a thing could be put together from this or a similar board.

[@sqol]

The DC power connector on the PSU is likely 2.5mm and the socket 2.1mm

[@NeungView]

I have looked at this before. It was not possible to get the ICs from a reliable source, no dowload of development kit from the manufacturers website and no apparent support in case there is a problem, unless you buy a billion chips. So, I am sticking with ST or, if price is an issue, Holtek from Taiwan.

[@Aeduo]

DRM's in everything at every layer.

[@andymouse]

Never heard of them will have to do a bit of Googleing !...cheers.

[@DanFrederiksen]

Mike, I forget if I have suggested it to you before but avionics (dash devices for small planes) like nav in a car is dominated by Garmin and they separate out trivial functionality in multiple 10k$ units to milk you the most plus multiple units is expensive in shop time to retrofit in your old plane and the fleet of small planes are worse than the cuban car situation, it's mostly post WW2 stuff. So to update a small personal propeller plane might be 60k$ in little units plus 30k to install it so 100k for what is roughly 90s level compute. There is no state of the art 4k oled displays and miniature electronics like smart phones, it's basically hobby level. And they think that 7 or 10" displays is big and fancy. Avionics is basically GPS, 2x pressure transducer because they measure speed by air pressure in a pitot tube as well as altitude, gyro, 2 radio channels in (108-138MHz AM) and one transmit ~20watt, some fairly crude map data and some fairly crude 3D display of crude terrain data. Plus data in from the engine. Often it's only 1280 pixel displays. So I figure a 14-20" display with all the functionality in one which saves on wiring and panel installation could revolutionize the market and become a half billion pound business in short order. A company named Textron buys up basically every company that looks interesting in aviation so they could be a quick exit strategy. A typical entry level setup is a Garmin G3x main display and a Garmin GTN650 'nav' unit and you might have two of both as redundancy, typically one set for each pilot seat. If you look at a G3x on youtube you can see it's basically like a flight sim from 1985 in sophistication. I figure you could get millions in venture cap funding, hire a few guys to do the work, shoe in success. Small plane aviation which is called GA or general aviation is really in a very sad state because of such low tech overpricing so it could help the community a ton and make you massively rich. We are roughly talking 10$ worth of compute in a unit that could sell 5000 a year for 10k each. Once production is set up it might be 95% profit margin.

[@GudieveNing]

Interesting!

[@404Anymouse]

Good luck with the safety certifications

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@404Anymouse you mean like boeing 737 max or 787?

[@martin09091989]

Problem is not the tech, it's the certification! In aviation that's like ISO 9001 QM times 1000! And that goes down to the manufacturers of your parts. Even the fucking resistors on your bord need to be certified, and if you change them you have to jump through all the hoops again, change your documentation publicize them in the correct way and all! That stuff is a fucking nightmare! If you can do that for less then those established manufacturers, go for it! 👍 Don't recommend it!

[@DanFrederiksen]

@@martin09091989 I call that a status quo monkey. You know exactly nothing about it but you are a dramatic naysayer. Can you point to regulation or examples that say resistors need to be aviation certified?

[@MichaelOfRohan]

Jesus, does it automatically burn nowrite fuses too? Theres just a whole bunch on that board that I dont see a use for. Bluetooth on a disposable standalone pic programmer? What the hell would this be for?

[@mikeselectricstuff]

Microchip's PICkit5 also has bluetooth - could be used for managing multiple program images, but doesn't seem too useful. in this case the MCU already has BT so a near-zero cost feature.

[@douro20]

Perhaps someone could localise the firmware?

[@mikeselectricstuff]

yeah but not really worth it, as long as you're not colourblind - all you need is the colour. Though might be nice to customise the messages into the data file

[@littleboot_]

Nah, just another motivation to finally start learning Chinese

[@policyprogrammer]

All these cruddy little windows utilities. Give me a Linux command line tool!

[@Mavromatic]

Is the usb a to a just 5v power via usb?

[@mikeselectricstuff]

No I think it''s for programming USB MCUs - I noticed USB as an option for some of their MCUs in their programming tools.

[@dcallan812]

Interesting video, its difficult to think someone at home would programme 1000 boards. but at least you can override the limit of you do.🤣 2x👍

[@AB0BA_69]

Potato cam is fine. But FFS please clean your dirty screen!! 😂😂😂

[@mikeselectricstuff]

I did - you should have seen it before..

[@derekcruickshank]

Promo`SM 🔥

[@liamharrison3]

Hope your computer is air-gapped running those 'utilities'

[@dalehorton7748]

Hope your computer is air-gapped running those murican 'utilities', Altium, Inventor, Photoshop - Horrific spyware, why even care about China if you're ok with it from others?

@@dalehorton7748 because you can sue the others :)