Star Trek Deep Space Nine Ruminations S2E10: Sanctuary

[@muadeeb]

The conversation between Bajor and the Feds about the famine probably went something like this: Feds: So, we hear you're having a food shortage Bajor: Eh, we're a little light in production right now F: Need any help? B: Nah, we cool F: Sisko tells us it's a bit more than "light in production" B: Weather's been a bit harsher than normal. But we have reserves F: We have some great weather tech. Have you ever been to Risa? B: Nah, we cool F: We've also know about some of your areas being particularly fallow due to the Cardassians. We can help restore that land. B: Nah, we cool F: You know that terraformer who killed himself last week? We have his notes and can really make Bajor an oasis for you. A real treat for those passing through the wormhole. B: Look, we said we cool, so we cool. We don't need any of your damned tech, and we don't need you here at all F: Remember those Cardassians? B: BAJOR FOR BAJORANS!!!

[@Spartacus547]

That's funny, but forgetting one point they're not a member of the Federation yet they can't share technology until they go through the administrative bureaucracy it's part of the prime directive "I can't interfere in other cultures until they're ready" they're only on the waiting list to receive Federation approval, did they get this awesome care package full of new technology resources up the ass at a cost of if there's anything that we need you have to hand it over in bulk!

[@AlucardNoir]

They say Star Trek is never dark, this is Deep Space Nine.

[@sharkdentures3247]

After you conquer the world, I do hope you remember your subscribers in a positive light. Mr LoreRunner .. . . sir?

[@vesuvanprincess]

Patrick Nolan Quite right sir, well said. Let's have three cheers for our future overlord! Hip hip, Huzzah! 😄

[@timriggins70]

They should have had Skerians servicing the Dominion later on. They could have said that they were not lucky enough to escape and now are under their control.

[@mr51406]

Always enjoyed this episode for the issues that are well presented but especially for the excellent illustration of how the Universal Translator works.

[@paynepersons6147]

9:02 I for one welcome our new overlord.

[@Mutex50]

I totally agree. That alien woman was so ungrateful for all the help. Were we actually supposed to empathize with her? It also really bothered me that they can find all these habitable vacant planets. They did the same thing when Worf's brother was leading that tribe to another planet. They would be colonized in a snap.

[@alexisajluni9184]

“You act like my friend until I need your help” like the fuck? What was Star Fleet doing all episode if not helping this entire population?

[@enlightedjedi]

About Bajorans asking for help. They could have not, they are a somewhat proud people, but they did in the past, so yes I see your point :)!

[@Spartacus547]

the most unlikable refugees ever created in Star Trek, the ones in Voyager I forget their names had more redeeming qualities then these people, and they attacked Voyager and stole their warp core, lol

[@thedoomofsodan5163]

Just saw the Episode and I agree, the leader of the refugees is really ungreatful. The getting help for free, no questions asked, a new planet, transport there, probably even Federation tech to get started and they behave like the crew sent them back to the Gamma Quadrant just because they dont get exactly what they want... kinda pissed me of to be honest

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

So, having gone back through this episode with analysis mode… I hate the Skree. They’re arrogant, undisciplined, haughty, and frankly unintelligent. During the language-less scenes, the way they act is so dumb, and either they’re being deliberately difficult or they just have no brains. When they decide “Bajor is where we want to go”, they become so offended when Bajor’s like “Um, no. This is *our* homeworld, and we’re trying to rebuild it right now. We can’t support you, and you don’t seem to have anything to contribute. Take a normal colony world like everybody else.”. They come out of nowhere and just assume everything is theirs to take whenever they want. Even more: the way their inter-personal relations work. Their societal “men are too emotional to lead” yet are portrayed as helpless and having no standing in society. “Husbands? I don’t know that word. They are bonded to me.” Okay, the word “husband” not being in their vocabulary is fine, but no English word should be anyways. There should be an equivalent even if it’s just “Mate”. The fact they have no word to title one’s romantic/sexual/living partner just shows you how little they think of such unions, and I really do think we miss out a lot on how poorly their society functions. The one thing I’ll give them that makes sense is their religious ideology. What’s her name finds the wormhole, so they determine it must be prophecy and she’s been “called”. For a cultural group who have this sort of religious tint, it makes sense they make that choice. It also makes sense why it’s still a terrible choice.

[@whoknows8264]

You gotta remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the Delta Quadrant... You know... Morons

[@DerBeppone]

This whole famine problem on Bajor is a little bit silly, in deed, at least at this point in time. Even Enterprise could've dropped off some industrial replicators at Bajor. Problem solved. Bajoran's still help themselves to build infrastructure, but with faaaar less challenges. Let's assume Bajor can't ask for help in season 1 episode 1. Those Replicators still could sit in one of DS9s cargo hold. Nonetheless it was implied from the very beginning, that the Federation was planning long term here. That is completely ignoring, that they had a Nebula Class starship here, last week, well at least recently in universe time. (commanded by a lt. Junior grade?) And if the Scrians are so inclined on helping people, why not make them main trade partners to Bajor for agricultural goods? But yeah, they are just the Dilemma of the week. Really missed opportunities here.

[@steakman1989]

Hi Archengeia, I have started rewatching DS9 to coincide with your Ruminations as you raises things I have not considered with the series, and it is enjoyable to rewatch the series as if it is for the first time to an extent because there is a community to discuss the show week after week. Though there is much I like about your rumination this week, especially the highlighting the discomfort people had around the Skrreeans as their biology and polyandry makes others uncomfortable because it is different than what they are used to. I disagree with your assessment about the ending, I think the conflict about the resettlement of the Skrreeans was actually done well because it highlights the limits of Haneek's leadership and the Skrreeans trauma of their experience and the desire to find a home that blinds them to see things rationally. I do agree with the Bajoran decision, but I am still sympathetic to the Skrreeans' trauma, even when the Skrreeans lash out when people say no to them. You are right, it isn't easy, and the conflict is really well presented balancing the trauma of the Skrreeans and the reality of the Bajorans which leads to a lot of hurt feelings on all sides. I will say though I am disappointed with your unwillingness to address the issues around refugees and the politics thereof. Sure, it is charged right now, but even in the 90s the politics of refugees was ongoing. I have worked in refugee camps, NGOs that work with refugees, and other related fields. I worked in Thailand, and Thailand has seen refugees come from its neighbours since the Vietnam War from countries like Cambodia, Laos, and Myanmar/Burma. Thailand has be able to take in refugees, but it is still a small country and cannot handle the weight of all the refugees so it seeks international assistance in resettlement of people. But the resettlement process is slow and people are stuck in political limbo. Sometimes the refugees may not want to move to Europe or North America because there are communities of their own people in Thailand that exist before the interior conflicts in their home countries began, and so they want to remain in their own cultures, which can make things more challenging. This makes things messy because the countries that take in refugees initially often border conflict zones. They want to help but their ability to help is limited so they need help from the outside to resettle people so they can be safe and free, but the outside world can move slowly and people who have been traumatised by conflict don't always see things clearly to know where it is best for their own ability to thrive to go. I think this episode captures the Skrreeans' trauma and Bajor's compassion but reality well. I don't think you should be afraid from time to time to engage with the more controversial topics on Star Trek, especially as DS9 gives us a chance to sit with our discomfort over it.

[@Bronasaxon]

All hail Lorerunner, Emperor of the Solar System!

[@brentc2411]

I realized after rewatching this episode that they just went about trying to move to Bajor through the wrong channel. They were denied as 3 million refugees? OK, what about 3 million agricultural consultants? Suddenly this sounds like a great idea!

[@vesuvanprincess]

Actually, their insistence on their prophecy being not just right but accurately interpreted regarding Bajor makes all the 'sense' in the world to me. I grew up in an extremely fundamentalist home and this is pretty spot on with the mind set. Frustrating as it may be. I love irony of it too, Bajorans worship Prophets and often get upset when outsiders don't take their religion seriously- and here's a group saying "yeah we have a prophecy too about you" and Bajor s essentially like... Uh, only our prophecies are true... I'm somewhat disappointed that they didn't settle on Bajor. How interesting could that have been? A new race settles in your home and eventually wants a say in your government? Likely mst of them would convert their prophecy being a great fit... But what if half of them have an old religion they cling to? And what happens when Kai Wen sees a chance to profit from them in some way? Could have been great. ...on the other hand, I found them off putting enough personally that I just wanted them off my screen and forgotten about. Perhaps that reflects poorly on me lol

[@earlwatt7677]

This was a disappointing example of reality - we don't look at the benefits these people could have brought to Bajorans, only the possible burden. We don't always see the glass half full but half empty, or even the possibility of being empty rather than the possibility of it being full.

[@bobkilla430]

I feel alot of the time the bajorans are like France after WW2. Finally rebuilding after years of destruction after an oppressor made France a cushion boundary, forced french men to fight for ss Germany, french women forced into prostitution and seemingly countless dead. Then here comes refugees that want to live. The french would probably think if they could help in beneficial ways the refugees would have already a place of their own.

[@elenarossi8398]

well yeah I suppose the most reasonable exlanation for the food stuff is that they haven´t asked for help. It is the first thing that came to my mind

[@richardgadberry8398]

Kinda surprised the Genesis Device wasn't even mentioned here.

[@pavlenikic9712]

Terrible episode, honestly my least favorite of the entire series. When i found out that the same guy directed this and run along home, as you pointed out, everything became clear. The Skria are really dislikable.

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Another one of the unpleasant and fateful consequenses of the Dominions reign of error and terror in the Gamma Quadrant .

[@enlightedjedi]

Yes, a quite good episode :)!

[@kardy12]

That planet is a weird construct, the idea that you’d have an unclaimed planet that is ideal for agriculture, near Bajor and Cardassia and somehow hasn’t been claimed by anyone when the Maquis conflict is going on is quite frankly ludicrous. All cannot be as it seems (I.e. the planet isn’t as ideal as it’s made out to be), or it’s a deliberately created to make the Skreeans inflexible. Also, if these people are farmers who are used to scraping by on next to nothing (they are scavengers as you say), it’s quite plausible they could make something out of farming that land.

[@jacksonheathen2092]

Personally, I wasn't a fan of the Skrreeans. The seemed extraordinarily demanding, arrogant, & ungrateful. Especially considering that the federation had offered them their own idyllic M class planet for free. The fact they chose to steal food scraps off people's plates in the promenade (after Sisko showed them how to use the food replicators), or that they refused to practice basic personal hygiene (after they were offered access to sonic showers) also showed they had very little respect for either themselves or their hosts. Even when Kira was kind enough to give the Skrreean woman (Haneek) a new dress as a gift, the first words out of her mouth was that it was the ugliest thing she'd ever seen.

[@elenarossi8398]

Well the problem with body language is, is that what we interpret a movement in one way and among humans we kind of have a universal body language that everyone understands but to be fair it doesn´t have to be the same with an alien species.

[@BleydTorvall]

23:43 This is why you probably shouldn't have a typical, everyday farmer in charge of negotiating on behalf of 3 million refugees. They don't have the knowledge or training to recognize all the factors and nuance that need to go into such decisions, nor likely the temperament to deal with the inevitable snags along the way.

[@bobkilla430]

Just rewatched this and found it alot better than the last first time I did. The leader of the refugees and the rest of them after they got denied a place on bajor had me cringing at their actions. Because imo not getting everything they wanted was good writing then to show some sympathy once the boys stole the ship. Then once again the show showed how pompous the leader was at the very end. Even though how much ds9 and kira did for her, showed no gratitude at all.

[@charjl96]

Attack of the hillbilly aliens

[@tee_es_bee]

Personally, I felt the universal translator bit went on a little too long. I don't mind the second half. After all the leader herself said that "I'm just a farmer" and she leaned into her faith to guide her. Makes sense to me. 🧡💛🧡

[@whoknows8264]

I've heard this described as the "gypsy" episode and I can kind of see why. Of course this episode does apply to all refugee situations at least loosely. The problem with the episode is how easy the writers make it for the skri to move on. They literally give them a habitable and vacant planet with good potential and the skri refuse it and act offended when they're demands are not met. Their attempts to guilt Kira and the Bajorans are pathetic. But considering they were a servant race who've had most of their leadership killed and half their population being emotionally unstable somehow... I can't say I'm surprised with how ignorant they are.

[@whoknows8264]

One last thing is how irresponsible the women are that they allow their unstable man-children to wander around a foreign station. Frankly I don't know how these people were not wiped about by a much less tolerable alien race, unless they become extremely docile under punishment.

[@DIEGhostfish]

This was apparently based on the California ballot initiative banning illegals from social services. Which makes it a very poor metaphor because it involves a group who swear up and down they will NEVER request any of Bajor's services once they have their plot of land. Works much better as analogy for a more traditional refugee situation.

[@EnvisionerWill]

Technically we all leave skin flakes everywhere, they're just microscopically tiny ones.

[@williamozier918]

I give this episode an A on concept, C on execution. The idea is that the Skreeans are to the Bajorans, what the Bajorans are to Federation types. The Skreeans have this flimsy prophecy that they are clinging to out of desperation. Their hygiene is comparitevly bad. They say they don't want hand outs but c'mon, y'know they're gonna end up mooching off ya and be ungrateful about it. To the Skreeans the Bajorans are a technologically advanced race with comparitevly limitless resources who won't help out, seem snobby about it, and scoff at the most cherished Skreean religious beliefs.

[@chrowx]

Recently rewatched this episode and Haneek is really the only partially sympathetic character out of all the Skreeans we see. All the men act like simple-minded goblins... and then she starts wailing about the prophecy. Not helping the whole story is that the Skreeans look awful. The big square hairpieces on the women and the pasty skin that doesn't even attempt to look alien just destroyed all sympathy for me. It's an entire species of simple-minded bumpkin goblins who are nothing but obnoxious and troublesome to have around. Why the hell is that the angle they chose for the refugee story?

[@DIEGhostfish]

Because it's a semi honest look at the downsides of this kind of thing. There's always a risk to the native population in these situations. People do get stabbed or raped.

[@enlightedjedi]

Mister Lorerunner, Actually "There is not a good answer" is more a chickening out rather than an answer :)! I think this should be fairly obvious. Serious ethical dilemmas are dilemmas for this particular reason, both parties are partially right :)!

[@quasimodojdls]

I got to admit, this episode was pretty poor. The only good thing about it was the fact that they had the guts to have the Bajorans refuse the immigration request. Bajor is a wreck! How could they possibly absorb three million immigrants? For all the protests that the Skrreeans aren't "asking for hand-outs", does anybody honestly believe that's not exactly what they would be doing if things went wrong? Of course they would; they would be screaming for Bajoran assistance - assistance Bajor simply does not have to give. But even leaving that aside, assume that Bajor is the most prosperous planet in the Alpha Quadrant. They would still be in the right to refuse the request - because it's their planet! They have the right to refuse anybody they wish. Other than that, there's not much to like. 1.) The Skrreeans overwhelming sense of entitlement. 2.) Quark has his character assassinated by making him borderline racist just to suit the story. 3.) Kira once again uses her governmental power to engage in rent-seeking behavior by forcing Quark to give her musician friend a venue, only to then treat Quark like crap because he has the audacity to expect "a little less exhibition hall and a little more music hall". 4.) Exactly what was Andrew Koenig doing with his performance? 2/10

[@tiffanyshank8837]

You reached the exact conclusion that I did -- this doesn't excuse the lack of support for Deep Space Nine specifically, but I'd be willing to bet that the Federation is standing by with cargo ships of supplies just waiting to give Bajor the minute the provisional government gives the word, and that's why Kira spends so much of this episode screaming at everyone. Do you have any thoughts on the emotional impact on Kira from the events in this episode? The farmer/leader (I'm not going to even try to spell her name) was immature and stupid, and the rant she directed at Kira didn't have any logical substance (like you already pointed out), but I'd still get really hurt if something like that was directed at me, and Kira thinks with her heart more than anyone else on the show I'd argue.

[@EnvisionerWill]

I know you have trouble with names, Lore, but...blanking on the Dominion, even for a moment, while going through Deep Space Nine? Are you getting enough sleep and such, dude? XD

[@Kapitaen_Flauschbart]

Why not allow a thousand of them to try this out and see where it goes ... something like that.

[@Dragons_Armory]

Such a stupid episode, I hated how endlessly unreasonable the Skreeans are. Imagine uninvited guests that automatically due to some ignorant identification suddenly latches and make entitled claim to your home world. A home world where we know they are suffering from their problems and where we also know a perfectly bountiful alternative had already been provided. Honestly episodes like these actually make me extremely misanthropic

[@nichtoffentlich4142]

It's misandry.

[@Terrain1017]

This episode was loosely about Black America.

[@mrchoochoohead9033]

We are farmers and you have a famine

[@mgheichert]

Bajor had plenty of farmers too just too much unproductive land. These so called farmers stole enough spaceships to take 3 millions people to other star systems. Anyone think women walking around in dresses are the farmers or was their men and who knows how to fly spaceships they stole? This is early Liberal crap where *those who lived in a country their ancestors built* are obligated to take in anyone who wants to come and take what they have. It was justifying Illegal Hispanics who were flooding America at the time. Why take *their own planet* that hadn't already been settled and built up by someone else? Women didn't want to work to build a successful society, they wanted to step onto a planet some other race built up for their people. You have a choice to move into the dangerous, undeveloped west of America in the early 1700's or you could move into America of today and have access to all that Americans had built for 300 years. There are people who would take the challenge to build a successful country, they aren't the ILLEGALS flooding into 1st world countries.

[@kaitlyn__L]

That's be polygamy rather than polyamory, because it seems only the women get multiple husbands - not going both ways like with Denobulans. Also, they don't seem to date outside of the marriages, again unlike Denobulans. Whereas Denobulans are polygamous and polyamorous, and it's possible to be polyamorous without being polygamous (such as if you don't do marriage at all, or marry only one person but keep dating others).

[@GrimDarkNarrator]

Some really ham fisted parallels with real life in this episode. Also, the alien race's sense entitlement makes them extremely unlikable, in my opinion. After what the federation and bajorans on DS9 did to help them, they still acted like the bajorans somehow OWED them immigrant status on their planet. Good performance from the cast but by the end I hoped the new planet they would move to was actually barren and they all starved to death in their arrogance.

[@EnvisionerWill]

I know exactly where you got the word "genderist" from, but you're the first person I've ever heard using that word, ever, since Joss Whedon coined it a few years ago. I assume that you're using it in place of "sexist" for reasons, which I pretty definitely won't agree with, so no need to bother discussing them. Just an interesting datapoint, that I know you either watched the same video I did, or someone else did and started repeating the word and it made its way to you.

[@Lorerunner]

I've actually never heard of Whedon using that term, believe it or not. Also not sure if or where I heard it from anyone.

[@EnvisionerWill]

Huh. It must have spread more widely than I knew; odd that I never noticed before, given how much feminism-related content I consume.