Star Trek Deep Space Nine Ruminations S3E17: Visionary

[@TheMarcHicks]

Below Average? I *loved* this episode.

[@tomgriffiths2622]

Kira knows in the deep downs that it is true. She was pissed because the romulans called her out on it and dug in with the abandoned the defiant comment. Great writing, layers apon layers

[@peaceandwar771]

I always like to think the only difference between the two O'Brians are the brief time jumps. That both experienced the same things prior to that.

[@tubeviewerX20]

I would think that’s what the episode was implying.

[@Brando64]

I just wanna say "Klingon Intelligence" seems something of an oxymoron.

[@WhiteScarsEmo]

I like the dartboard because I think it’s O’Brien’s way of finally settling here in DS9. He’s considered this station home enough to warrant having a dartboard here. I think the Romulans are specie-ists, not seeing different nationalities, faiths, sects and so on. To them, one [insert species] is as a good as the rest. Might also be an outlaying of their “Us vs. Them” mindset. In this Ep, O’Brien becomes DS9’s Kenny. lol

[@tomgriffiths2622]

Doesn't sound horrible sounds like logical romulan thinking. Another great episode of DS9

[@GrimDarkNarrator]

Actually one of my favourite episodes of DS9. Many O'Brien episodes are very entertaining in my opinion. For this one, I found the travelling into the future elements to be interesting, as it only lasted a few moments and O'Brien had to make best use of them.

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

Darts is harder than one thinks - there are different darts games and the competitive darts tournaments involve precision hitting but also hitting the exact score at the right time, and that's really hard to do. Contrary to film tropes, the bullseye is not the highest score in one throw (the triple-20 is) but the bullseye is the smallest target. 'I always investigate Quark' - so matter of fact, isn't it. Enjoyed seeing O'Brien zipping through time here, there's something about his everyman character that makes it that much funnier. Bashir is so matter of fact when he comes into the medical bay to tell O'Brien what to do. Nice touch that the O'Brien that ends up surviving doesn't feel he fits in, even though there's very little that's different between the two. You're right about the doom-avoidance dodge, but there's a couple of dodges so it's not as bad. O'Brien dodges death, and he dodges the explosion of DS9. O'Brien's bed looks like a single, I know Keiko's not there, but funny the bed wasn't a double at least.

[@MLPDethDealr32]

They also used this episode to set up the Die is Cast. Kira: Maybe they send their own ships through the wormhole and find out for themselves. To which the Tal Shiar formed an alliance with the Obsidian Order...

[@whoknows8264]

Good episode, pretty sure the surviving O'Brien didn't see the station exploding otherwise he would have jumped forward like the dying O'Brien did. I also like how ruthlessly pragmatic the Romulans plan was and it isn't like our characters didn't go with the same option once all alternatives were gone, in the simulation.

[@johnashley327]

I have always been intrigued by the Romulans. Always want more info on them.

[@iacobus4227]

Me too. They’re always portrayed as villainous and would’ve liked them to have a Romulan portrayed by a main cast member to suss out their back story and relationships with other species especially the Vulcans.

[@danshive4017]

You have the same DS9 book I do, but one of the writers was really big on swapping out a main cast member for an alternate for basically no reason but their own amusement, and I assume they went on to influence Voyager.

[@StormsparkPegasus]

I think the intent at the end was for the timeline where the station was destroyed, and our O'Brien died, to have been erased entirely. Which of course begs the question "where the heck did the O'Brien we have now come from". My mind is going into the direction of erased timelines, and the darkness beyond time in Chrono Cross.

[@Edax_Royeaux]

26:30 I would say the Romulan strategy is solid. Borg space is closer to the Dominion than the Romulan Star Empire, it's unlikely the Dominion would really be able to go after the Romulans from any direction when the Dominion has such dangerous neighbors.

[@DX2069]

That’s what always confused me about the defiant why did they get a cloaking device from the romulans and not from the Klingons?

[@Planetdune]

Not every single prediction "except the big one" happened. He also didn't get zapped.

[@random_eskimo_in_the_rockies]

Why is the Odo/Kira relationship so hard for you to grasp? It’s like walking through a forest and seeing a deer run past. Do it long enough and eventually it’ll happen. In the future, Sarina points out that Odo doubts everyone except Kira. There is a great deal of Kira to fall for, and Odo does. Have you never had love just fall on you? I have. A complete stranger, no ties or anything, but a spark hit and BAM! Love blossoms. It didn’t last, and my now wife of 37 years and I generally disliked each other when we met, but lightning can strike at any time to anyone.

[@stanislavkostarnov2157]

Question... how did the time thing never come up before? Is this the first time they have Romulans in orbit? feels like this should be a constant and known problem

[@Xelpherpolis]

It's SO bizarre that the Miles O'Brien wet met all the way back in Best of Both Worlds is now technically dead and will be replaced with a different time-displaced O'Brien for the remainder of the series. I mean, he's the same in just about every way that matters, but still... hard to wrap my brain around.

[@fredaf3700]

Actually we met O'Brien as far back as TNG's pilot 'Encounter At Farpoint', we just didn't know his name then, he was only referred to as 'Conn' by Picard.

[@kaitlyn__L]

Voyager did it with Harry Kim too! Or maybe he was the only one that didn't get replaced?

[@rebeccaw6253]

i thought this episode was really funny! Quark throwing three darts at once and hitting Morn! Miles smiling at himself in the bar fight for a “job well done”... The thud sound when Miles faints over and over again... Miles calls his own name after he sees himself get zapped... Kira’s saying she is “always diplomatic” cut to her freaking out... Bashir gliding into the room to find time traveling O’Brian looking over his future dead body with a causal like “oh hey there” attitude... The comedy is in the directing, editing, and the actors steadfast commitment. The “calm in the face of danger” skill Starfleet personnel have is amplified here. Maybe by sedating the “action” and reactions in Ops they get to play up the eerie endless mystery of space life. This episode gives me a call back to the funny episodes sprinkled throughout series like The X Files and Buffy the Vampire Slayer 🔭 of course this was not as obvious but that’s my own little head cannon.

[@edinscot56789]

Dax - a symbiotic hybrid who has lived 7 lives - can't work out the Romulans use a singularity which is orbiting the station?...😧

[@ifandbut]

Your secret about enjoying Enterprise is not nearly as bad as my secret of enjoying Discovery.

[@savagepug]

Makes me sad to think about the other timeline the O'Brien left from. The people over there will find our irradiated dead O'Brien and think it's their O'Brien who died :(

[@kaitlyn__L]

Plus then the station blows up!

[@BleydTorvall]

I think it would have been interesting if the Maquis had been brought up as proof that a species doesn't have to be a part of an organization. After all, most of the leaders of the Maquis are humans, but humans are the heads of Starfleet, which opposes the Maquis. Then again, I could see the Romulans seeing this as a tacit admission that Starfleet actually does support the Maquis, so maybe it's best that they didn't bring that up... Regarding closing up the wormhole to stop the Dominion, I feel like you've underestimated what 70 years of travel time means. Not only is it 70 years for the various Alpha quadrant powers to improve their tech and prepare their militaries for an incoming invasion, but that invasion would also be fighting with tech that is 70 years out of date, with orders that are 70 years out of date, a huge supply line problem (can they even stock enough white for such a trip?), and no way to get new orders or request reinforcements in real time. Even with the possibility of invading from different directions or different manners, that would still put the Dominion at a monumental disadvantage. I think the only realistic way for the Dominion to invade the Alpha quadrant without the wormhole would be to basically conquer and colonize the entire way there, effectively eliminating the distance issue. Such an endeavor would likely take centuries at least, assuming they even could succeed in the first place. I have no idea what other species or civilizations would be in that path, but considering how many godlike aliens there are, I'd imagine the Dominion would probably encounter at least one or two who would put up a major fight.

[@Spartanj42]

Don't worry man, I too enjoy Enterprise. Even seasons 1&2 have some great episodes.

[@NoelleMar]

I’m surprised this was written for Odo originally since it seems tailor made for bad luck O’brien. Though I’m sure it went through a bunch of rewrites to emphasize that lol. Kind of depressing that THIS is the happy O’brien in comparison the the alternate universe version. 😆 Do you consider the Voyager episode Deadlock to be an example Of dealing with rather than averting the problem? SPOILERS: because it kind of does both I guess. I was actually pretty surprised when the much more damaged ship with lots of trauma made it out while the other one (minus a few passengers) was destroyed by the Vidians!

[@nathanschultz5538]

I honestly don't see Odo bribing Quark directly, I'm sure he's smart enough to "convince him of his civic duty".

[@Helyyx]

Anyone notice the Pakled on the promenade? Well, it was just his backside and we never get to see his (or... her?) face, but it's very much the body build and uniform of a Pakled. You know, we never got to see a female oe that species. Are there any Pakled females?

[@GosuZer0]

why Feds didnt get cloaking from Klingons?

[@Mikanojo]

i especially like the visual effect of the snow falling toward us. the green screen effect is well done... except when you move too fast, yes.. but the large snow flakes appear to fly PAST and OVER you, on their way toward us and that 3D illusion is pleasant ☕️(❄´◡`❄)

[@LoreReloaded]

Omg first comment and like.. yaaaay!

[@subraxas]

You are simply soooooo AWESOME ! ! ! ! ! WOOP!! WOOP!!! :-D

[@athrunzala6919]

Always like an O'Brien episode

[@athrunzala6919]

I know what you're talking about, Kira is a Tsundere;)

[@subraxas]

7:27 - :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

[@grantlloyd9131]

I'm going on 30 and I still act like a kid.

[@deuji155]

hey will you do a rumination on Red Dead Redemption 2?

[@IshikawaGoemon]

I'll go one step further Lore; I don't hate the Enterprise opening theme. I hate the second opening theme, though.

[@Spartanj42]

Yeah, after I got to the second theme I had actually stopped hating the original and had it stuck in my head for a while. Then theme 2 happens and I was like "WHY U DO THIS?"

[@kaitlyn__L]

@@Spartanj42 theme two got rid of the flanger guitar in favour of more traditional drums and a bassline :(

[@tomgriffiths2622]

Move along home? 😂😂😂

[@jamespepper8671]

Who here knew about the singularity as soon as it was mentioned?

[@Helyyx]

ME ME! I did! I remember this episode but I didn't remember all those little details. But as soon as the word singularity was spoken I was be like... WARBIRD!... It's a Romulan Warbird. I mean com'on, the senior staff of DS9 isn't stupid, you'd think that either Dax a SCIENCE officer or Miles (whom was *presumably* present when the Enterprise assisted a Romulan ship) would have at least made that query of that possibility and scan for tetryon particles, or a tachyon scan, scanning for a subspace disturbance (although that presumably only detects cloaked ships at warp). Or maybe just send out torpedo (or a probe, don't want to created an incident) equipped and programmed to track plasma exhaust........ but then if they did that.. episode orver, call it a day. lets all go to Quarks and play a round of darts.

[@benashenden1]

LOVE star wars

[@tomgriffiths2622]

Ben Ashenden BOYCOTT EPISODE 9🖖

[@AnaPradosA]

I'm so tired of time travelling stories on shows that are not about time travelling. I wish they stop them, and i specially wish, that they stop asking us to believe they are going to kill a main character if we don't change the future.