Star Trek Deep Space Nine Ruminations S4E17: Accession

[@Norvo82]

A great episode that shows off Avery Brooks' sense of undercooled comedic timing: "No more ceremonies to attend, no more blessings to give, no more prophecies to fulfill. I'm just a Starfleet officer again. All I have to worry about are the Klingons, the Dominion and the Maquis. I feel like I'm on vacation." Also: I like the subtle nod to continuity when Akorem Laan learns about the Cardassian occupation. He is clearly aware who the Cardassians are and seems stunned it was them who invaded. This proves two things: yes, the Bajorans had been in contact with other sentient species for centuries (as seen in Explorers) and apparently, the Cardassian people weren't always hostile, warlike conquerors.

[@EnvisionerWill]

We already know that the Cardassians were once a peaceful, deeply spiritual people. "And what did peace and spirituality get us? People starved by the millions!" Funny that Lore mentioned David Warner right here.

[@quasimodojdls]

"See Brak acquire. Acquire, Brak. Acquire!" God, I love Quark.

[@1TheNews]

LOL! Didn't like him at the beginning of the show, but he's grown on me.

[@tougheddie7297]

God I love this channel, only found it a few months ago but have already watched all next generation and ds9 videos. Keep up the good work lore runner. Never change who you are and what you do.

[@Slevin-Kelevra]

In his older video's he has HAIR!!

[@TheAnimeAlliance]

@@Slevin-Kelevra I still remember his shoe theft analogies in his talk about Mass Effect.

[@williamozier918]

This is an excellent example of a 'no-bad-guy' episode, which is awesome and very artful imo.

[@kieranholmes8086]

I always imagine Lore being really good with kids for some reason, like if I was a little kid he'd probably be really good at telling stories and shit lol.

[@thexalon]

One thing I like about the dynamics here are that we don't run into the problem of never giving power to somebody who sees it as a goal rather than a burden - this new emissary guy, for all his faults, also sees it more as a burden than a blessing.

[@EnvisionerWill]

The murder was a little hamfisted, but I still love it because of the way the priest guy plays that scene. He is so perfectly open and forthright about the killing and his reason for it, almost bragging about it, but just wonderfully sincere in his belief that he did the right thing. He was so friendly earlier in the episode, and he's just as friendly now; it's incredibly creepy, but still believable, because this guy is so much of a cipher to his faith (obviously not all or even most religious people are like that, but certainly there are some).

[@joluoto]

I really like the O'Brien/ Keiko relationship, to me it's the #1 relationship in Trek.

[@TheRealityJack]

So... where do I sign up for this Pokerchipism?

[@EnvisionerWill]

@@Tuvok_Shakur You sound like there was a bit of Auditing done recently....

[@EnvisionerWill]

I listened to 25:47 and suddenly I got chills....

[@Tuning3434]

I don't mind the Keiko - Miles relationship. Looks realistic, O'Brien might have been a main cast member, but he still has responsibility as a parent and husband, and sometimes need to fold for his wife. And if Keiko cannot lower her cloak in presence of her husband, then to who can she? The fact they understand why they receive flak from each-other, are willing to accept it, and do each other favors when they feel from the other when they are in need of a favor, shows how well rounded the relationship is portrayed. Keiko can be a bit high-maintenance at time, but it makes sense that Miles is precisely the nice guy who can deliver when she needs the support. And Keiko is at times able to look a bit further into situations and feeling than Miles tends to do when he's stuck in a rut, so they complement each other. Them being together and staying together makes sense, even when at times thing can be shaky, they do got each others back.

[@corssecurity]

B plot exists because the primary actors get paid for every episode and they are required to get speaking roles in every episode

[@johnashley327]

Great review.

[@ohgoditshimrun1346]

Regarding the murder plot point, have you considered that this was a shortcut taken when they theoretically condensed the two-parter down to a single episode?

[@wangbot47]

Heh, that lockdown bit sure hits different in 2021

[@DirkPiddlemark]

82 likes 0 dislikes Well done Lore, great content sir

[@mr51406]

I’m a descendant of the kings of Leinster. Meet you in holosuite 2, O’Brien. Bring your sword. 😁

[@mr51406]

And yes I love this episode. Very important one. It’s the half way point of the series and Sisko has now accepted that he is the Emissary, “The Sisko.” He is of Bajor and he has taught the worm hole aliens they are of Bajor too. Taught… or reminded. Because there is that theory that the Prophets are far future Bajorans who evolved (as the Organians) to be “pure energy” (to quote Spock). Lovely to see Opaka again.

[@bbbbKeJodddd]

How hard was he fighting the urge to name Poker Chip Prime "Bob"?

[@stevencoardvenice]

Yes this would have been a good 2 part episode.

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Back from the future to the past .

[@Jokie155]

Ack-sess-shn, and Australian for reference. No idea if that's the proper way, and honestly I don't even care. Kinda says something that I somehow kept seeing the title as 'Ascension' until the very end because of how infrequently 'accession' comes up in writing and the like.

[@AdamCollings]

As a fellow Aussie, I agree with your pronunciation. Not sure how else it could be said.

[@ifandbut]

Hey Lore..."Do this" (no if's, and's, or but's). :p

[@babylon5lord]

Well lore what did you think about the minbari caste system?

[@MarvinMonroe]

Yeah about Colm pronunciation. Irish will say it like "Collum". They say "film" the same way. "Fillum" But Colm is how I always heard it until I heard an Irish person say it

[@Tuvok_Shakur]

I know how they're pronounced. I'll put it in here even though you can't take me for sure, you can at least look it up or know it when you hear it. COLLUM Meaney. Nuh-Naw Visitor, Marc A-Lie-Mo

[@Jose_Hunters_EWF_Remixes]

Keiko Recently, I was watching a video by a ewe-toober named "The Rageaholic"; it was a review of season 1 of DS9. It was fairly interesting and somewhat coherent. But then this "person" referred to Keiko as a c*nt, except that he didn't use an asterisk. Also, he had other uncomplimentary remarks about the DS9 character. I was stunned for a few seconds, then suddenly had no further interest in the video. Looking over some of the topics of his other (non-Trek) videos, his political affiliations became quite clear. Question: Do you think the hatred for her is because she's an Asian woman, and is not subservient to her husband? I wonder what Miles O'Brien would have to say about this (in character)

[@quasimodojdls]

Indeed, The Rageaholic is a conservative. Therefore, he must hate Keiko because he's a racist. Right? That must explain why he has a Hispanic girlfriend. Wait, what?! Oh, wait, it must be because he's a sexist and hates Keiko because he isn't subservient. Which explains why he really likes Kira and Dax, because (as we all know) the defining characteristic of those two characters is that they're subservient to the men around them. Wait, what?! Maybe he just doesn't like Keiko as a character. Isn't it possible for people of good faith to disagree on this?

[@thegreatbaolmagician3032]

Rageaholic makes crap videos and crap contents

[@DIEGhostfish]

Keiko is generally used in horrible unflattering ways, be it one episode's atheistic cultural imperialism or just being a wet blanket that douses fun prospects. (The latter part is mostly just the writers needing an excuse to have O'Brien in the episode just long enough to get Colm his check, but plausibly have an excuse to exit a plot that either doesn't have room for him, or that he'd solve too quickly if he were present, or shatter disbelief by not solving it quickly. In many other episodes Keiko's ambitions and concerns are entirely valid, they're just the opposite of good television. In the school episode she's just awful and fully deserving of that epithet.

[@SchneeflockeMonsoon]

I easily believed the murder. The vedek who’s always behind Emissary 2 feels like it was supposed to be Winn. An obvious politician who’s capitalizing on the newest religious change. I honestly think that Vedek would have proclaimed this new guy Emissary just to kill a rival using the Djara excuse and get around it. Just for the one removal of a political adversary.

[@dirtywashedupsparkle]

O'Brien plot - I imagine it's pretty real, hey I'm single. Loved Keiko's way of getting Bashir and O'Brien together. Emissary plot - I like it that it seems the Prophets have orchestrated this from the start. The poet seems to have been sent there to make Sisko see and accept his role as Emissary - they say he is there for 'the Sisko'. The caste system reinstated is an interesting dilemma - what if elements of your faith actually take you to a place where you intrinsically feel is wrong? What do you do then? Do you follow your faith, no matter how wrong, or has the interpretation of things gone badly wrong here? Does one let their own judgement shape faith, or let faith shape thinking? The poet is played as a guy who sincerely believes he is the Emissary, has reasons to believe he is. It causes some angst among the Bajorans. The death seems extreme, but honestly amongst caste systems in the world, some of them really do treat certain castes like crap, and others like kings. A lot of the other behaviours are quite possible and real. I think of the barakumin in Japan who make the skin drums but cannot play them or live outside certain locations, being treated like rubbish because they handle dead animal skins - meanwhile the drums they make are played by others and are well valued. I find it incredulous that Sisko doesn't believe in the prophecies when he suggests they go into the wormhole to visit the Prophets to settle the issue. Come on. But at least in the end he appreciates his role as he should. Good to see Okapa in this episode. Interesting the poet manages to complete his poems as a result of being sent back. Good theme in this episode and worth discussion.

[@stevencoardvenice]

Agreed. I thought the murder was the best part and most realistic part. Religion can take people to very dark places

[@athrunzala6919]

I loved the joke with Worf and Keiko. O'brien and Keiko, love their marriage and always wished there was more of them. Didn't love this episode, but held it in high regard, I appreciated what they were going for with it. I guess the murder was stupid, think I remember rolling my eyes at that bit.

[@nickokona6849]

As an unapologetic atheist, if some way, some how, I was thrust into the status as a religious icon for any major religion, or for all religions on Earth, I would at first be overwhelmed, but then, I’d get to work in the largest religious reformation in human history. The concept of faith (the excuse people give for believing things with no good reason) would go out the door entirely. I’d encourage skepticism, learning epistemology, logic, and reason. I would cut out all references to the supernatural until such time as the evidence for those propositions warranted belief (as of now, it doesn’t). I would promote the scientific method (the single most effective tool humans have ever invented Roget to truth). I would promote morality as it relates to well being (a la The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris). I’d get rid of the idea of worship, sin, the afterlife. If anyone followed that religion over any other that’s ever been practiced, the world would be far more like Gene Roddenberry optimistic vision of the future. That might even put an end to my lifelong depression and general misanthropy to see such a positive change in my species as a whole. If that changes happened, that religion wouldn’t even need me at that point, and I’d just fade into the background. But the fire would have been lit, and the future would be brighter. That I’ll never live to see such a revolution is the source of so much of my mental health issues. I think Odis response perfectly demonstrates that the idea of faith is a flawed epistemology, and Kira’s response is entirely bullshit because she hasn’t learned that faith by definition is an unreliable path to truth. It’s a perfect showcase of the dangers of magical thinking.

[@connormccloy9399]

I believe that faith is the only means by which a person can obtain absolute truth. Facts can be “scientifically proven“ based on evidence but they can also be disproven in a similar manner, based on new information. In my opinion, faith requires objective facts AND feelings. To suggest that all religious people ever have no logical basis whatsoever for their beliefs is extremely shortsighted in my opinion. For example, I might say that I believe this Earth was created so that humans could live on it. The objective facts that would support this belief might include the precise distance between the Sun and the Earth, the precise axial tilt of the Earth, the fact that ice floats when frozen, the presence of the moon to prevent polar drift, and other such facts. These “coincidences“ obviously don’t prove the existence of a God, but that is where feelings have to come in. You’ll probably continue to believe that I am crazy for being religious, but please don’t say things that are provably false, like that my beliefs have no factual basis whatever. Emotions are certainly involved, but that doesn’t make the concept of a religious scientist a contradiction in terms. Since this isn’t a very appropriate forum for this kind of discussion, I’ll probably be unable to respond further.

[@quasimodojdls]

Geez, the fact that there are people who don't share your worldview is causing you mental health issues? Also, nice to know that if thrust into such a position of power you wouldn't hesitate to use it for your personal agenda.

[@Yura-Sensei]

If I would be named a religious icon, I would just tell the religious people that I'm just a person, and that they should relax and get a grip on reality.