STAR TREK DS9 Family Business + Shakaar | 3x23 and 3x24 REACTION | FIRST TIME WATCHING!!

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0:00 - Intro
2:27 - Family Business
18:06 - Review
24:12 - Shakaar
38:28 - Review

[@RolyPolyOllieReactions]

LIVE STREAM NEXT WEEK AFTER THE SEASON 3 FINALE PREMIERE ON KZbin!! If you want to catch that episode as well as the season 4 premiere you can check them out on Patreon now!

[@TheNoiseySpectator]

Think about Wynn like this; She is not a Bad person. She cares about Bajor and the Bajoran people in general. But, she doesn't trust _anyone else_ to be Good. She thinks anyone else she deals with may have a harmful, personal, agenda. "😒"

[@TheNoiseySpectator]

34:32 to 35:15 You know, Wynn said that she believed the Prophets were testing her with this crisis to see if she could deal with her new role. Maybe she was failing such a test. As a political leader, she had to be able to get things accomplished by methods other than just telling people to do something and then then them doing it, or forcing them to do it when they don't comply. Many people call such skills "Leadership". Wynn may just outright not have the leadership skills to be a political administrator.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

03:30 "Who is this elegant Ferengi?" Brunt is played by Jeffrey Combs. This is the SECOND time you've encountered the actor. I think he holds the record (maybe shares it) with "most amount of characters portrayed" in Trek. You will encounter him again. a Lot.

[@jeffd.6498]

Gotta loves Combs!

[@MrDeathpilot]

Combs was "Tiron" ...the alien who wanted Quark to make a sexy holosuite program of Major Kira in "Meridian". So far, he has played NINE different roles in the Star Trek universe.

[@wratched]

Oddly enough, no he doesn't, but he certainly holds the record for "characters people remember."

[@WiseWolfofDeck6]

We're all actually Jeffrey Combs.

[@hyzenthlay7151]

The running conspiracy theory is that Jeffrey Combs really plays everyone, and he even plays the actors at conventions🤣🤣

[@fakecubed]

Chief O'Brien, former transporter chief of the USS Enterprise, decides to try and pick a Ferengi lock instead of simply beaming his property out of Quark's bar from the transporter in Ops where he works every day.

[@dupersuper1938]

I'd assume he transporter shielded it, otherwise why bother with a lock?

[@hellfish2309]

*Cardassian trasnporters 😬😬

[@fakecubed]

@@dupersuper1938 Locks keep honest people out. If a criminal wanted to get in they could easily just phaser the lock or cut through the bulkhead. Presumably such activity would be detected by station security, and Odo would arrest the perpetrator. Likewise, if somebody initiated an unauthorized transporter beam, it would be detected in Ops and the station crew would respond in some way, like tractor beaming the thieves' ship. Quark would know this. Transport inhibitors might interfere with normal station operations, and I doubt anyone on the station would be allowed to activate one. Quark is mainly worried about Morn sneaking in there to drink up all his booze while he's away, or one of his other employees stealing his collection of exotic holosuite programs.

[@trekkiejunk]

I named my cat Moogie. I got her from the shelter at 2 years old. Before i got her, she had a litter of her own, and then fostered a litter abandoned by their birth mother. That made her the ultimate 'mommy, so the best name for her was Moogie. She has inoperable cancer now, but she watches all the Ollie reactions with me.

[@janleonard3101]

Aw, I wish Moogie all the things she enjoys for as long as she can. 😺❤

[@brianbooker8724]

My favorite DS9 episodes have always been the ones where the main plot is centered around Quark.

[@hyzenthlay7151]

Louise Flecher gave us such a fantastic recurring character with Kai Winn, she is someone you just love to hate!! She brought all that Nurse Ratched personality from One Flew Over the Coocoo's Nest and gave us such a memorable and complex character in Star Trek. And the thing is, Louise Fletcher as a person is really kind and lovable, a wonderful woman, so that just proves how great an actor she is!!

[@robertcringle4865]

Andrea Martin as Moogie in Family Business and Duncan Regehr as Shakaar in Shakaar. Big time Canadian Content.

[@JamesC1981]

i enjoyed Duncan Regehr on V

[@trekkiejunk]

Latinum comes in slips, strips, bars and bricks. You've seen all of those in DS9. You see slips and strips for small transactions, so they are likely similar to small denominations like $1, 5, 10 or 20 (in the US, anyway). Bars signify larger transactions, maybe equivalent to a few hundred, maybe a thousand. And bricks are for commercial business, and may be worth several thousand each. We don't really know the value, of course, but just by watching how they use them, a good guess can be made for their 21st Century Earth value. So, even if Ishka had only made 3 bars, that still would likely have been at least a couple thousand dollars.

[@tiriusA]

"Family Business" is such a treat. Another great example of the Ferengi episodes carrying a lot more weight than people generally expect. With regards to Winn's motives in "Shakaar" - she was about to become First Minister. Yes, she overreacted to the whole farming tool situation, but in her mind the issue was likely not the equipment, but the challenge to her authority. She wanted to make sure any challenge to her leadership was quashed. Thanks for sharing again. :)

[@silikon2]

The problem with Ferengi episodes is they're usually drenched in silly slapstick. I dislike it so much I can barely pay attention to the plot in those episodes. I couldn't do it first run but now I'll fast forward through plots like this. I like the Ferengi episodes that come later where they're taken seriously.

[@jerodast]

@@silikon2 There's all out comedy which I enjoy, and some good serious episodes, but I agree when they do a more slapsticky or farcical family thing like this it's hard for me to get into. Like, technically everything makes sense about this family story you're telling me about these 2 characters I like, but it's just not something that feels serious so what does it really matter.

[@tofersiefken]

You're fortunate that Invisalign is as non-intrusive as it is. Imagine having to wear orthodontic head-gear like we saw "back in the day" and doing your reactions. We can certainly overlook whatever inconveniences your dental situation might have to endure.

[@janleonard3101]

That headgear was a straight up torture device.

[@jasoncaldwell5627]

"I heavily dislike this species with the big ears- I don't know why, I just heavily dislike them." -Ollie in the first episode of DS9 HAHAHA! How they've changed your mind! (I felt exactly the same way when DS9 started- and the Ferengi became my favorites too!) FAMILY BUSINESS shows us more great character development for ROM and introduces Ishka- Quark and Rom's mother! She's great- and takes no crap from anyone. We learn more of the complicated relationship the boys had with their parents. And we met Cassidy Yeates! SHAKAR shows us that Berial's loss still looks large in Kira's life. We learn what shit bags the Cardassians were when they left Bajor- poisoning the farmland in spite. We meet Kira's old war buddies and get a glimpse of just how petty and evil Wynn can be. Sisko has to tow the Federation line with regards to sending military aid to Wynn- making her even more of an enemy to him. Shakarr running the government might have far ranging impact.

[@BunBun299]

Ah, Penny Johnson Jerald. Kassidy Yates as she is known on this show. The woman is in three of my 5 favorite shows of all time, and she's excellent in all three of them. The other two shows would be 24, where she played Sherry Palmer, and The Orville, where she played Dr. Claire Finn. Both would make good shows for you to react to once you're finished with DS9, btw.

[@baronvg]

Moogie is played by Canadian actress Andrea Martin who’s already appeared on the channel as Phyl in Black Christmas.

[@jeffd.6498]

Check her out back in her SCTV days. There are lots of clips on YT.

[@user-ro9lu7uo1j]

Andrea Martin is actually American. It's kind of a weird fact that three of the OG Second City Toronto players were from the States: Martin, Joe Flaherty and Harold Ramis.

[@rjcurrie61]

@@user-ro9lu7uo1j Why is that weird? American actors work in Canadian theatre. Canadian actors work n American theatre. No big deal.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

36:15 remember they have "stun" settings 🙂 Cardassians don't... but Bajor and the Federation do.

[@Tylerpierre99]

These x2 episodes seem quite insignificant in the overall season, but they actually have long lasting and story changing consequences for the entire show that's visited several times in various seasons down the line 😊

[@Center1240]

You really should react to the movie, One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest. You’ll see an Academy Award winning performance by Louise Fletcher- your favorite.

[@MatthewBluefox]

Furst episode about profits, second episode about prophets. :)

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

30:35 it's suble but he lost his arm due to the cardassians... torture... internment camps etc. The subtext is he didn't lose it in a fight... the Cardassians TOOK it from him.

[@richardstarkey2247]

Winn knows when to cut her losses. Like in the Circle. She's good at rebounding from a loss.

[@nathanfitzgerald6651]

Thanks to DS9 the Ferengi really grow on you as an alien species, you've seen they keep getting more and more fun! Wait until a future episode "Little Green Men." I think it's season 4 or 5.

[@randallwong7196]

The Ferengi surprise you now and then.

[@tofersiefken]

Hey Ollie, Mother's day is coming up, how about a DS9 reaction video with your Moogie? Just a thought. Andrea Martin does a great job in the role. Who remembers her in the cast of SCTV, Sketch Comedy TeleVision, the Canadian SNL broadcast from Toronto?

[@cashflowhustles]

LOVED HER in that! Edith Prickley was hilarious along with dozens of other skits and characters.

[@MrDeathpilot]

CONTINUITY & PRODUCTION PROBLEMS FAMILY BUSINESS (IMDb Rating: 7.3) "The Nitpicker's Guide For DS-9 Trekkers" has nothing for this episode, so let me take this space to point out that at 8:38 , Ollie says the exact opposite of what Moogie says at 15:18 😉 7:18 Oh yeah, ...a microphone can be briefly seen at the top of the frame. (Thanks, Renegade2786 😁) We also learn why the Ferengi have a ridge that runs across their foreheads from ear to ear. It works like a rain gutter. 😂 You gotta love evolution. Cestus III is where the Gorn annihilated the Federation colony in TOS's "Arena". Apparently, the Federation and the Gorn have worked things out. SHAKAAR (IMDb Rating: 7.0) 28:55 After her shoulder is grabbed, Kira says "Shakaar!" but it was edited out. However, it still shows up in the close-captioning. There are 2 other close-captioning errors listed, but no one really cares about those, right? Shakaar looks a LOT like the horny ghost 👻 that Beverly Crusher was enjoying way too much in TNG's second worst-rated episode, "Sub Rosa". 😳

[@tteros5998]

So encouraging to see young people loving this show, and the stories it tells. :)

[@nicholasregan6526]

Cestus 3 ah the famed location where Kirk took on the Gorn! That place outside LA in CALI where they filmed LOL

[@exhistoriascientia]

Cestus III was the planet that contained the Federation colony that the Gorn wiped out. Kirk fought the Gorn on an unknown planet somewhere in Metron space. That unknown planet was filmed at Vasquez Rocks. The Cestus III colony was actually the old set of the Alamo from a film made in the 1930s.

[@LordMekanicus]

By far, Enterprise and Deep Space Nine are the most human series, without as much utopia as tng.

[@CarbonSpire]

I love Andrea Martin as Moogie. She didn't return as the character bc she couldn't stand the makeup. The actress who replaced her does a great job, but Martin's comedy is just perfect for the character...

[@redemption2]

"He couldn't hold on to latinum if you sewed it into his pants." is my favorite line of the entire show.

[@Lexi_Zone]

So now Winn is both the pope _and_ the prime minister? Super.

[@gregsaum1701]

Love “Shakaar” so much! Introduced us to Furrel and Lupaza, two characters that instantly have a lot of history the moment we see them. Any episode with Kai Winn (played by the amazing Louise Fletcher) was just gold. I wrote her once and she told me she loved playing this role because “sometimes it’s so much fun playing a complete b*tch” 😂. She was nothing like this character in any way. She was an absolute sweetheart. Regarding your comment about Star Trek always being woke: right on sir! It has been progressive since the original series (ep “Private Little War” which was anti-Vietnam comes to mind!). I look at it this way: some Trekkers like the show for the action and battles, but they completely turn a deaf ear to the moral messages. And that’s fine: you do you. 😊

[@RolyPolyOllieReactions]

It's so cool that you got to write to her and she responded!!!

[@WUStLBear82]

​@@RolyPolyOllieReactionsWhen she won the Best Actress Oscar for Nurse Ratched in _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest_ , she honored her deaf parents by signing her acceptance speech in ASL.

[@richardstarkey2247]

Yeah Ollie the "woke" isn't the problem with NuTrek... you'll get there, you'll find out.

[@trevorschaffer9173]

I absolutely love Moogie! Her story arc throughout the series is fun.

[@cardenfoy]

really the solution as Rom's lie. Moogie's downfall was her greed, it was a lesson about greed but also about ferengi social problems.

[@user-qz1sj1ru3d]

I kinda Like it that Kai Wynn is a pain in the ass. That's her job.

[@DavidPilcher83]

There are different types of latinum... many times they mention latinum, but you have to pay attention to the wording.... There are latinum slips, strips, bars and bricks.... one brick of gold pressed latinum is equal to 20 bars.... One bar of gold-pressed latinum is equal to 20 strips or 2,000 slips of latinum. When we watch the show often we pay attention to the number of gold pressed latinum and we pay attention that its gold pressed... but we rare pay attention, or even realize almost every time they bring it up, its of a different denomination..... In the video you mentioned. What's the big deal. It's only 3 bars... but what if the last time you saw a transaction they were talking about slips or strips? Taking this into consideration it could be a huge difference in value... but I guess in the end your still right... quark supposedly makes about 5 bars of pressed latinum daily in profit. And a bar drink is usually a couple slips of latinum... so in the end, she earned enough profit to equal a days earnings in business with lots of customers making above average profits in a booming type of business... But for ferengi women are not allowed to make a single slip on profit for hundreds of years. It's so taboo its almost unheard of except for quark having the ironic fortune of having had to negotiate two of the only known cases.... lol one from one of his lovers, the other from his mother....

[@janleonard3101]

O'Brian's shoulder is kind of fragile. 🚫💪

[@wrdreads4742]

Repeated injuries increases likelihood of more injuries

[@jerodast]

@@wrdreads4742 Exactly, I'm really not surprised after all the kayaking incidents, his shoulder must be held together by a few threads at this point.

[@youtubeviewer4472]

A holodeck can use the stats of old baseball team, mix and match players and teams and create "new" baseball games with indeterminate outcomes.

[@mxmxpr]

I remember when you first started the show and said that you really disliked the Ferengi from TNG and weren't looking forward to having them as regular characters.

[@tofersiefken]

Congrats to Louise Fletcher for making me wish evil things would happen to Kai Winn. I f-ing loathe that character! (Again, the actress must have done her job expertly for me to forget this is all pretend and there isn't really a civil war at stake.)

[@user-qz1sj1ru3d]

It's like the reverse of the Arab women being completely covered. Yet means the same thing.

[@jerodast]

which Arab women

[@user-qz1sj1ru3d]

@@jerodast I dont't know. Iran ones I guess. And others. This isn't an intellectual comment so slow rolls unless you want to talk normally.

[@trekkiejunk]

Ollie, you got the whole NuTrek and ''woke'' thing 100% correct. As a lifelong progressive, part of the reason i love Trek (pre-2005) is the positive human future, by way of a pseudo-socialist society. That said, the reason NuTrek is trash is NOT because of ''woke.'' It's because the writing is regressive and melodramatic. Everyone is whining and crying, and the stakes of every story is that the universe is going to explode. Characters act like petulant teenagers, not like adult professionals, as they do on all the earlier shows. Some people whine about ''woke'' just because they see diversity at all. Sure, there are examples where TV leans too hard, and makes it look more like virtue signaling than genuine representation. So, the ''woke'' thing isn't completely toothless. But it's waaaay overstated. Having actually watched all the NuTrek shows (i guess i'm a masochist), it's more diverse than ever before, but i don't see it as virtue signaling. Batwoman. THAT was virtue signaling.

[@joonaa2751]

The ”woke” argument also has to do with performative corporate activism. It’s not so much specific opinions that make someone woke (I probably count as one if that were the definition), but more that one is part of the corporate-astroturfed ”moral purity cult” where every slightly different opinion is taken to be some nazi dogwhistle or something. It’s a post-OWS thing where corporate elites, fearful of Americans uniting against them, have performatively appropriated the (non-economic) talking points of the left side of the culture war, and driving them to ridiculous extremes, in an effort to make socially moderate people (who are not represented by either extreme of the culture war) turn away from the left. A kind of subversion of leftism where ”people versus elites” is replaced with ”good-thinking people versus bad-thinking people”, and only once the culture wars are solved can something be done about the extreme concentration of wealth and all that jazz.

[@Charmolution]

I don't care if every character is a racially-diverse trans lesbian or if it's as misogynistic as TOS, I just want the characters to stop acting and speaking like moody adolescents.

[@pth4545]

Precisely this!

[@rdumontdebeque]

I had Invisalign braces for 2.5 years. It’s a piece of cake. Good luck.

[@user-ro9lu7uo1j]

I'm pretty sure I've seen that Bajoran general in a gay bar in Baltimore.

[@redmatter]

On Kai Winn… oh you have no idea yet, lol. Best Space Karen of all time.

[@Renegade2786]

You can slightly see the mic at center-top of the screen on 7:19.

[@MrDeathpilot]

Hey! You're horning in on my turf. CONTINUITY AND PRODUCTION PROBLEMS is my gig. 😁

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

24:35 "I wonder if Morn is any good at darts...?" .... um. You'll find out, one way or the other.

[@beyonderbill3409]

Dude, I finished my Invisalign treatment last year. It's not so bad, pain wise. I mean, you feel them pulling on your teeth but it really doesn't hurt. Just some pressure. The only thing I would give you a heads up on is the trays can wear and become uncomfortable in your mouth so be careful about damaging them while you wear them. Also, Kassidy Yates in the house! Edit: Also Moogie and Brunt.

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

"Moogie" = "Mummy"

[@heather9857]

Jeffrey Combs❣❣❣

[@little_forest]

Mooooooooogieeeeeeeeeeeee!

[@EvanG529]

This is DS9. There are no "dropped plots".

[@quoniam426]

Family not being a huge preoccupation to the Ferengi is even in their Rules of Acquisition which I never remember the number; "Exploitation begins at home." It's just so ironic that the family financier strategist was none other than Moogy and not her husband ! Rom is too nice for his own good. Kassidy Yates is an awesome character and matches with Sisko brilliantly. About everything being paid on Ferenginar, Ferengi might be horryfied if they were in the Velerian universe, the Shingouz are even worse than the Ferengi, they charge you with the AIR your breathe, taking a broken escalator because there is no other stairs available, etc... Every Shingouz is on the Stock Market, their value lower if something bad happens to them, their value goes up if something good happens to them... If they drop too low, they are banned to an island when the unsolvable are concentrated... Even the Ferengi wouldn't allow such a thing to happen although their culture is quite similar in many aspects. Oh yes, Kai Wyn is a good orator, she can mainpulate people easily, otherwise everyone would have thrown her out of the airlock in season one after the school "incident." And truth is just as good of a tool to maipulate people than a lie, it's even better in some ways... Oh and as would have said a certain Senator in Gladiator "If you walk in with an army, you can be extremely political." Shakaar just proved that. Ah, isn't Quark messing with the dart board just to earn profits on STAGED winning candidate? I wonder... Matt the question isn't that Star Trek suddenly became progressive, the question is that it became badly written, spitting on fans and on everything that has been done prior and that the producers keep gaslighting fans and lying constantly while still making bad content. If you watch the interviews, Nichelle Nichols (Uhura) saw that Star Trek was political commentary right from the start but that was not the problem. Roddenberry just told her to shut up because saying it was would break the charm. Exactly what the nowadays Hollywood producers do, they say it aloud and thus people just see it as propaganda and not entertainment anymore for those who don't care about political commentary, former Star Trek gave you the liberty to see what you wanted to see in it while newer Trek just tells you what to think like a dictatorship, THAT is the problem. Not to mention writing quality being completely thrown under the bus for the most part. To understand the difference between real progressiveness and wokism just watch TOS last episode, especially the last scene when Uhura faces the alien character, what she says is very telling of which state of mind we should be in instead of what's going on right now...

[@sarcasticstartrek7719]

Is Winn "good" or "evil" ? She's a politician. Neither applies.

[@trayolphia5756]

20:30 The only issue with the “wokeness” of new trek compared to the progressive messaging within older trek - is that new trek makes it the main focus, slaps you across the face with it and beats you over the head with it, then uses that framework to tell a trek story, whereas older trek, whilst it has its messaging etc, tried to weave it in a bit more naturally, less “in your face”, and treated the messaging more as a subtext that could be recognised, but could also go over peoples heads if they aren’t looking for it. Examples - the original series made direct references to the Korean/vietnam era “proxy wars” during the Cold War era. But it was a short scene where Kirk and bones discuss it and frame it as a “can we stand by and risk the same things to happen here on this planet”…whereas if the same were to play out in new trek, the conversation would be considered the main focus that the entire episode revolves around, and would be presented as a more lopsided argument. Next gen - season 1 had the “drugs are bad mmkay” episode, where they had Wesley confused about why take drugs, and yar explains the trap concept to him, yeah, it had preachy elements, but the overall feel of how the scene was written felt more “natural”, Wesley being ignorant, asks question, gets answer, as opposed to someone coming up to Wesley, actively asking if he understands drugs are bad, then proceeds to explain why without him asking. Again - it all comes down to HOW ITS WRITTEN…trek has always had progressive messages woven into it, but they used to be thick tapestries, and you could recognise the threads woven into the story if you looked for them or understood…these days they get mass produced “woke” fabric, then dye it with start trek themes…it’s far more obvious and “in your face” Fans want to watch trek to be ENTERTAINED, not preached at

[@Calzaki]

Make Bajor Great Again!

[@LockeTheCole]

Here's the issue with NuTrek, It's NOT that it's 'woke' (I too hate that term) it's the way it's written. It's more preaching at you directly than setting up progressive situations within the universe that make perfect sense at the time that the show is supposed to take place. Star Trek used to show such values and conundrums in the story than to just brow beat you with it. It's a difference in quality of writing and subtlety.

[@pth4545]

Spot on!

[@astrorick2910]

Bro casually mentioning Zeke and Yelena instead of Zek and Kasidy Yates 💀💀 (react to Attack On Titan please)

[@RolyPolyOllieReactions]

Can't react to Attack on Titan as I actually just finished watching that with my gf! Absolutely insane show

[@astrorick2910]

@@RolyPolyOllieReactions OH NICE! 😎

[@salsanchez4177]

I heard what u said about Nu Trek. Mostly, I don't care about it being WOKE or not. My problem is that it's NOT Star Trek. It's a generic Sci-Fi show using the name of Trek

[@fakecubed]

It's also woke. As liberal as Star Trek always was, liberal is not the same thing. It's not even in the same galaxy. The woke writers of Star Trek hate liberalism just as much as they hate everything else. That's why they've sought so hard to destroy the old Star Trek and the values it held, and replace it with something very different.

[@tofersiefken]

I was born the year TOS first aired. I have seen a lot of advancements in women's equality during my lifetime. Before, women could not have their own credit car accounts, (they had to be in their husband's name), could not petition for divorce, (only the husband could), and were not allowed to serve as combat soldiers in the military, (only as nurses & behind-the-lines support positions). Star Trek has always been progressive, (although TOS still has plenty of cringe misogyny sprinkled throughout). Still learning.

[@empirejeff]

Kai Winn?

[@trayolphia5756]

21:10 Ollie- “women have more rights etc” Certain middle eastern countries- “are you sure about that?” Funny how when feminist groups try to confront you and scream at your face about the evils of patriarchy etc…”Uhm, why are you screaming at me who entirely agrees with you? If you believe this so strongly why not do it in a place where women are indeed actively treated as second class citizens or even property?” “Crickets chirp” 🤦🏻

[@randallwong7196]

Jeffrey Combs drinking game Tens of thousands die

[@jerodast]

Shakaar, another one of the "boring political episodes" that is actually perfectly well done and has several likeable characters, but just doesn't seem to pop as much as some others huh. I gotta say it did move me a bit seeing the boots on the ground come together and agree neither one of them wants to kill any of their own people today

[@fakecubed]

This is not really a series that brings things up and then drops them.

[@607995]

every ferengi episode is really good except for that one

[@MoominDoogie]

My dude, I said last time, pace yourself with the kai winn hate or you're gonna have a brain aneurysm before the series ends! 🤯🤯 She is so wonderfully hateable though.

[@NessOnett8]

Anyone who claims Star Trek has "gone woke" missed the point of Star Trek. It's objectively the most progressive franchise in the history of television. Always has been. Even from the ToS days. "Let That Be Your Last Battlefield" is the most obvious, blunt analogy. That just slaps you across the face with the message it's about. Not to mention the first primetime interracial kiss, one of the only shows with Black, Asian, Female, and Russian main characters, etc.

[@antarfodoh]

My best friend hadn't seen Star Trek before and I've been watching along with her, being her guide for non-spoiler questions. Our running joke has become "nuTrek is so woke" as we watch, and we have a good laugh as we wonder what show these people have been watching for the past 50+ years 😂

[@scottswenson383]

Star Trek has always used current social commentary in order to make people think as well as to endorse a certain point of view. There is nothing wrong with that. I think the bigger problem with new Trek isn't so much that they are carrying on with that tradition but how its being done. For instance when Sisko talks to Jake in the last episode of the first season about religion and science both being valid points of view...and that if you just dismiss the opposing view out of hand you become just like Kai Winn...but from the other side. What made older Trek so great is that looked at both sides and didn't really proselytize to the audience but simply told a story without taking a side in an overt heavy handed fashion. From what I've seen of Discovery they don't really do that...its much more pushing their narrative in a very non diplomatic way and I think that's why people have an issue with it. That said I think Strange New Worlds is much closer to older Trek in their approach than Discovery.

[@antarfodoh]

@@scottswenson383 Having actually watched all of Discovery, I'm frankly at a loss as to what you're referring to, but okay. Regarding my earlier comment, I was actually referring the the vehement hatred leveled at SNW, which I also don't understand 🖖

[@alexejfrohlich5869]

@20:50 the issue with "woke" nu trek is not that it is progressive. the complainers (and i am one of them) do not have so much of an issue of the WHAT (although, there is even room for debate there), but the HOW. the execution is so aweful. the scripts are aweful, the story arcs are aweful, the characters are SO ANNOYING AND AWEFUL... even space battles are so often aweful since they are so over-the-top for star trek in general. all star trek needs with the new capabilities here is what DS9 did times two, basically (just take a little bit more freedom, but then its fine)... but in nu trek, even special effects need to be "special". like really "special". just like the characters, the stories, the scripts... everything is SOOOO SPECIAL and whatnot. in season 5 of DS9, there will be an important episode with odo (don't worry, no spoilers) and it has to do something with rene (the actor) talking to a glas of liquid... like LITERALLY. this episode made me actually cry, like it was a REALLY REALLY good episode. just wait for it... nothing in the slightest happens in nu trek, it is the complete opposite. it is boring and very badly executed. my 2 cents :)

[@pth4545]

Exactly!

[@samuraiwarriorsunite]

Gene Roddenberry wanted the bridge of the Enterprise to reflect humanity. However, what they were was far less important than what they brought to the table. You want a competent captain, engineer, or communications officer; you couldn't care less what they look like. When you looked at Uhura, Sulu, Chekov, Scotty, or Spock, hopefully, you saw a competent bridge crew; their color, ethnicity, or species were irrelevant. Their individual differences weren't highlighted because that's not what made them special; their abilities did. In a lot of media today, what someone is seems to be a bit more important than what they're capable of.

[@jerodast]

I know, I got so tired of Discovery talking about Michael Burnham being black all the time.

[@ericstarkey551]

I don't think Trek has become woke, I think there are a lot of issues that people are heated about. Trek has always been able to promote both sides of a debate to make every side open their minds to new ideas. Here's the issue with not only present day trek, but also other shows and movies. Everything has become very political, without thinking tv and movies have picked a side, without showing equal respect to both sides as they used. Society is constantly forcing ideas on everyone saying if you don't think the way we do your evil. We have lost the ability to see both sides, and its becoming increasingly frightning. The people who describe it as woke are simply saying are point of view isn't evil, and we deserve equal representation for the sake of eqaulity.

[@DangerousDac]

I too hate it when people say "woke" with regards to Trek, the difference in the newer stuff vs the old stuff is its incredibly preachy, It yells the message at you vs you discovering it through the actions and words of the characters.

[@saena971]

Just want to say that I completely agree with you that Star Trek has always been progressive for its time. It has always pushed at the societal boundaries that keep us separate and has been an important force in widening those boundaries. People who use "woke" in a negative sense are simply uncomfortable with Star Trek continuing that progressive history. The old Trek they want to to return to doesn't seem as threatening because the societal changes it helped influence have already been incorporated into the culture. And the anti-woke people want it to stop there instead of continuing to imagine an ever-more-compassionate world.

[@wrorchestra1]

My thoughts on the progressive/woke front as someone who grew up watching these shows. Others will have a difference of opinion and that's fine, this is just my take on how they handled it. I feel that older Trek was progressive in that it dealt with issues without making it so obvious or preachy in what they were trying to say (mostly because of the censorship in those days). New Trek is slap in the face "Woke", "here's our agenda now let me just forcefeed you". Its obvious, blunt and a little condescending to the audience. It certainly lacks the grace of old Trek writing. Makes you wonder what the studios actually think of their audience's intelligence. Strange New Worlds, however, feels more like DS9 kind of writing. It's much more subtle and deals with things delicately for the most part.

[@fakecubed]

Woke doesn't mean liberal. Woke people hate liberalism. Actual liberals hate wokeism. They are wildly different ideologies with wildly different goals.

[@jonathanlewis1981]

Singing and dancing Klingons is where I draw the line, strange new worlds can do one for that alone

[@wrorchestra1]

@@jonathanlewis1981 that episode was awful but its the only one from SNW that was so bad I had to force my way to the end. I did nearly skip it.

[@jonathanlewis1981]

@wrorchestra1 SNW is mid at best take Pike out of the show it would be just as bad as STD, and that episode was me done with kurtzman trek I've watched it all so I'm not just hating on it for the sake of it. After seeing what Terry matalis did with Picard season 3 I'd come back if he was in control but till then my time as trek fan is on hold

[@wrorchestra1]

@@jonathanlewis1981 Matalis is to Star Trek what Dave Filoni is to Star Wars. Two people who truly know and understand the universe they stepped into.

[@MackerelCat]

With all due respect Ollie, you can’t dismiss criticisms of nu trek until you watch it. The progressive themes aren’t the issue for me, it is the disregard of canon, poor writing and recycling of material that I object to. It seems like they lean into the progressive themes to compensate for the weak content. And that’s why people complain that nu trek is too woke. It’s not the woke itself that is the issue, it’s that woke is all the nu trek seems to have.

[@pth4545]

Absolutely. Nutrek is generic action scifi with a Star Trek sticker slapped on it. The problem isn't that it's woke, it's that's its poor storytelling it's all superficial plots that have nothing to say. The nuance of older trek is simply not there. That's why some hate it. It blatantly ignores all precedent of the universe, and the new stuff they introduce is just flashy drama. Old Trek is smarter.

[@ShayLocomotivePro93184]

Agree

[@jonathanlewis1981]

Its biggest problem is not one character acts like a professional Starfleet officer, they all act like immature kids and the dialogue is abysmal. " That's the power of maths people" is probably the worst line in any show I've ever seen

[@levadamusic]

There are good criticisms of nu treak, but there are also criticisms that are based on nostalgia, that ignore the problems of the old series, that ignore the fact that the old series had bad arcs and bad dialogue too. Like DS9 which has 3 bad fist seasons,outside some fill episodes. Another part of the fadom also doesn't want Star Treak to evolve. They always want the same thing. I like the new treak, I have criticism to, specially with the prequel, but older fans also foggot lot's of bad things in the old one's.

[@LockeTheCole]

@@levadamusic I'd watch the 2 'bad' seasons of TNG, the 3 'bad' seasons of DS9 and any awful episodes of TOS a billion times before I'd ever watch another season of Discovery once. The worst writing in OldTrek beats the best (ha) writing in NuTrek by a factor of near infinity.

[@VieVentar]

Oh don't worry, you are quite right about Trek having always been woke. The ones complaining about modern trek being woke are either being disengenuous, have no media awareness at all or never watched the damned thing. The opinions of such folks can be safely disregarded. Modern trek has its flaws, those stupid bloody elevators come to mind, but being progressive is right in line with the traditions of Trek.

[@TrekTrav]

HEY olly, Ignore all the Newer Trek haters. They are great shows. They are just old men who hate things.

[@MyBigMouth]

So good to see Dr Finn... she's got a thing for emisarys.

[@corneliusoverton2617]

The progressive left from the 90s has little, to nothing, in common with the "woke" left of today. The 90s left was about treating people equality, the modern left is about equity and forcing others to correct perceived injustices. They are kind of opposite concepts, when you think about it. One is about bringing people together, the other is about splitting them apart. But the real difference, when it comes to movies and TV, is that new content has nothing but wokeness. There's nothing entertaining or even remotely believable beyond that. It's nothing but preachiness, kind of like many on the right were in the 90s. This was just a single episode of DS9 (and still managed to be entertaining). That's the difference. And if every episode was like that, you wouldn't even be watching the show, right now. Now Voyager was the first TV show I really remember people complaining about "wokeness", so to speak. At least before it came out, and they heard about the casting. It was downright goofy, how pandering they were trying to be. No show had ever done that, before that. But despite not being nearly as good as it's predecessors, it still was entertaining enough, unlike all the newer garbage out there. It also has my favorite Vulcan.

[@superhayes256]

The people trashing new Star Trek shows are just the worst form of human. That’s all. Watch it and judge for yourself. Not sure how bored someone has to be to try and talk someone out of watching Star Trek in any form.🙄

[@channelwacke]

Yep, the avatar haircut checks out. NuTrek is objectively worse in writing, characterization, plotting, pacing, and acting. The only thing I'll give it is that it's pretty. Your support for this garbage tells me 2 things: one, like many of the newer generations, your standards for media are hopelessly low, and two, "The Message" is more important to you than actual quality. Finding those who dislike NuTrek "the worst kind of people" says a lot about the bubble you exist in, given how awful these productions are. Nobody will be fondly remembering their favorite episodes of Discovery in 20 years. The show is so bad that it's being cancelled after 5 seasons, a feat only beaten by Enterprise. And Enterprise, as bad as it seemed at the time, feels like freakin' Shakespeare compared to Kurtzman's trash.

[@auntvesuvi3872]

I hope your Invisalign stuff goes smoothly, Oliver. 🫂 'Odo' himself, Rene Auberjonois directed s3e23 while Jonathan West directed s3e24.