Star Trek: DS9 [Tears of the Prophets - Ft. Clay] S6xE26

[@ghost-in-the-ciel]

Apparently what went down is that Farrell knew they were going into the last season and had been offered the Becker role, she was afraid for her larger career if she didn't take it because she knows how it goes for some Star Trek actors being pidgeonholed. She asked Rick Berman if she could be reduced to part time/guest star and he told her she had to stay full time or be fired. She was very upset but did what she thought was best given the circumstances - Ira Behr and the other writers had no idea about Berman's bullshit ultimatum until over 15 years later when they spoke to Farrell again, and say they would absolutely have kept her for half the episodes or whatever, if only she had come to them instead of Berman.

[@madcourier6217]

Worfs weird scream makes a lot more sense once you realize it was probably his 10th or 12th take of that scene. I heard Terry Ferrell kept tearing up when he did that so they had to keep re-shooting it.

[@JCSuperstar777]

As in laughing or crying?

[@PoindexterTactical]

As far as Jadzia in season 7, there’s one episode (I can’t remember which one) where they use some audio of Terry Farrell, in regards to a plot line with Worf. You are correct, though, that the big montage scene in the finale does not feature Jadzia at all.

[@JamesVDBosch]

19:55 This always seemed so silly about Star Trek battles to me. So they're in space right? I'd say there's some room there right? how is it that they always end up fighting at bayonet distance? And if we're indeed going to get a bit nerdy, just jump to warp for a split second to avoid getting rammed?

[@histguy101]

That's like the Picard maneuver, and this is like the B-Team. They can't handle handle such slick moves.

[@mayra3277]

(This is gonna be long) Dax is my favourite character (don't judge) so the episode always hits me close to heart. When rewatching it yesterday however I realized that when you actually think about what is happening it has quite a lot of flaws. The foreshadowing goes to extreme levels, and while it definitely destroys the surprise I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing - after all, even at the time it originally aired most people knew Terry Farrell was leaving. But just to recap: She almost dies twice in the season ("Rocks and Shoals" and "Change of Heart"). There's the camera pan in "The Sound of her Voice" when O'Brien says that their friends "may not be here tomorrow". The Vic Fontaine scene where Bashir says that "It's hard to lose a woman like Jadzia" and Vic replies "You lost her a long time ago" (perhaps he refers to the moment she decided to leave the show?). The way she stares at the camera after her goodbye to Worf. Waving back at Julian as she walks towards that Bajoran temple. If this was meant to be a surprise then they certainly did something wrong. But that was probably never the intention. Can I also just agree on how the separation of the characters makes absolutely no sense?? First, why is Kira on the Defiant and not on Deep Space Nine? I don't think she's ever been before, and when Sisko gets knocked out by the Prophets Worf should have taken command. Second, if your aim is to kill Dax why not just do it on the Defiant? She had a console explode in her face in Rocks and Shoals, I don't see why it couldn't happen again. If at this point Worf was in command, you could also add the fact that this time he chooses the mission, just for some extra tragic. Sisko could then blame himself for taking the Defiant in the battle, not just for going there in general, because if they hadn't gone she'd actually still be alive. The whole "possessed evil Dukat spits fire" is kind of disappointing, and I'm just glad they at least let her have a proper farewell scene in the infirmary. And while we do at least have the rest of the crew waiting awkwardly outside throwing some meaningful glances at each other, I definitely agree more time to see them grieve would have been good - instead of focusing on things like Jake's career as a journalist or Dukat going crazy. Yeah, Sisko was done well (except for the unnecessary restaurant scene), and we'll have plenty of Worf in the next season. But everyone else? I love the idea of having someone just breaking down as sorts of a symbol for the entire cast, and Bashir for example would have enough reason - he loved her (it's been a while, but if they play it up why not use it?) and was also unable to save her. I know, technically he should be above that as a doctor, but it's not always that simple. While I think that Odo is physically unable to cry he does seem like an interesting choice. Seeing how Kira would logically be the one comforting him we'd get to see some character development on both sides, namely Odo softening and Kira both allowing that grief (even if she herself has seen too much to feel it) as well as assuming the responsibilities that Sisko is too shaken to handle right now. Still, a funeral could have been very touching if done right. Perhaps with Sisko stepping forward, trying to speak and just retreating with horror in his eyes. It's the first time the war affects him this personally, and he even feels responsible for her death, so he's certainly at a point where he's lost his words. I'd also argue we'd definitely need someone to play Amazing Grace on the bagpipes... In general, I agree that this episode doesn't focus enough on the characters with everything that's going on. It's probably one of these episodes which had too much going on for a single episode, but not enough for a two-parter (story wise it felt more like the latter, first we have Sisko debate what to do and Dukat going crazy and later we have the space battle and Jadzia's death). I'm not sure if it would have been better as a longer story. They might have messed it up worse. Regarding the fact that Jadzia never shows up again: From what I know, Terry Farrell originally asked for her role to be reduced to a reoccurring or guest character, not to be written out completely. So they could just have promoted her to Captain and given her an own ship, which would have made sense in context of the war (and Worf having that reprimand on his record). That would give her an opportunity to show up every once in a while during the final season (perhaps even just via an audio transmission so they could skip the make-up). They could also have transferred her literally anywhere. But the showrunners decided to kill her off instead, and I think it lead to at least some drama. The reason she doesn't appear in season seven at all, not even the flashbacks, is apparently that they used a voiceclip in one of the episodes without authorization, leading to an argument with her agent which ultimately made her not appear in the finale (which disappointed me quite a lot). So, that's all purely to behind-the-scenes reasons. Overall, I loved this episode the first time I watched it, and I still like it a lot because it has many good moments. Sadly it's a bit like boring food with chocolate sprinkles. I just choose to see the chocolate sprinkles above whatever else because I like them so much, even though it doesn't hold up to what I'd hope for.

[@thepenskyfile]

Thanks for that! Great write up.

[@randallburke3562]

Yea Terry Ferrell loved working on the show. I'm pretty sure she's on record disliking Rick Berman and felt he played dirty with her contract negotiations.

[@histguy101]

Just in time for the long drive to work. Amazing!

[@earlwatt7677]

The death of Jadzea was again the proper way to do it. It was not epic, it was very Tasha Yar in that it seems very meaningless. Many times, that's what death is. And it makes it real when they show that sometimes people are simply victims of bad circumstances. It showed the cold hatred of the Pawraiths and Dukat. This didn't need a dramatic moment but a simple crime of opportunity. It's a letdown way to die, and that is real, and that's why it was good.

[@thepenskyfile]

Sure, but it's not narratively satisfying.

[@Zero8880]

Never thought I’d hear a Suikoden II reference here. Loved that game, and Jowy too.

[@thepenskyfile]

It's a great game!

[@mctaylor0307]

One thing I've always noticed about most sci-fi movies and shows is the lack of grieving and care shown for fellow fallen comrades, friends and family. Sometimes it's just a lack of time or doesn't fit the mood or narrative of what the writers and directors want to convey. But I'm with you, Wes. I wish they had shown more of a loss with Dax. It's one of the elements I liked best of the recent Infinity War and Endgame. You really felt the main characters' loss and so did the cast. When it's conveyed well, emotional loss and grief can really make or break a movie or show.

[@Kryptice]

In Clay's defense, shields have fallen prey to continuity issues throughout all Star Trek series. I remember that in TNG's "The Hunted," the Enterprise's shields were able to deflect Roga Danar's escape pod, which was on a collision course for the Enterprise, making it ricochet off harmlessly before it hit the hull.

[@thepenskyfile]

We've gone from Spock yelling "deflecTORS" to the adamantium (or whatever) shielding on the Defiant.

[@Kryptice]

@@thepenskyfile Lol. I believe the treknobabble term is "ablative armor," which is somewhat inferior to Archer's NX-01 Enterprise that, in spite of having no shields, could "polarize" the hull in case of enemy attack ;)

[@rizner12]

Please indulge my personal retcon for this episode; Dax is critically injured, Bashir has to remove the symbiont, but through his genius finds a way to keep Jadzia alive, but she has to head off to a hospital/rehab facility of a lengthy recovery where she is literally a different person now without Dax. That would create an eventual rift with Worf, and still allow the drama with Ezri Dax in season 7. It'd have given Farrell a few more opportunities to return for a guest role, and keep the character from getting killed off in a stupid, stupid way. The death of Yar at least makes some amount of sense, in that a chief of security who is always tagging along with the captain is almost always in the line of fire somehow. It's a known risk of the job. The Dukat mechanism in this one feels so much more contrived. It's way more insulting, I believe, than even the dumb way they off Tasha.

[@undefinedusername]

Nerd alert: The shields do in fact reflect solid objects like ships; we see it in the TNG episode "The Hunted", when Roga Danar tries to ram the Enterprise with his small ship. Maybe the Jem'Hadar ships have some sort of special shield-piercing technology, who knows.

[@DorkKnight99]

They didn't capture Cardassian, but they did capture THAT particular Cardassian-Dominion Sector/Planet & Martok states that they're landing ground troops. It's basically what the Dominion did with Betazed. They didn't capture the CAPITAL (Earth in the Dominion's case, Cardassian in the Federation's), but it was nonetheless a major strategic & territorial victory & the first major incursion/foothold into Dominion Space. Think of it as the Allies landing in Normandy. They definitely could've made that more clear, but it was basically the Federation Alliance getting off of their defensive backfoot and going on the offense.

[@mctaylor0307]

All I gotta say is poor Worf! He's lost sooo much....

[@thepenskyfile]

He can't win!

[@signaltome]

Firstly, before I talk about Dax (spoiler for season 7 incoming) I have to premise it by saying that I have no problem with Farell or Jadzia as such. That being said, I (sort of) felt like she should have been killed off in season four or five, as I much prefer Ezri Dax and she should have had a bit more time to shine than one final season. Just a personal preference I guess. I feel a bit sorry for Clay now, since the Prophets feature so prominently in season seven. I think they might be more interesting from now on but I am not sure that is enough for Clay. I guess he has to be happy with the Dominion side of things even when that too sort of tie into the whole Prophet/Pa'Wraith business. As a side note, I am not sure it is followed up very well but I think (in my head cannon anyway) that Dukat has been influenced by the Pa'Wraith in the same way that (The) Sisko has been influenced by the Prophets. The evil chosen one as it were. I wonder if it is possible to spot the signs back through episodes. I dunno. Poor Worf, once again he looses a spouse/lover. He can't really catch a break can he? Sigh... Again spoiler, but next season he even gets the chance to become one of the most influential political figure in Klingon culture and he gives it away to Martok? Which is fine I suppose, I like Martok too but WHY can't Worf get some real power for a change. Oh well... ;-)

[@mayra3277]

Worf just won't ever get a happy family.. In the relaunch novels he starts another romance, guess how it ends (Spoiler alert: This time he did not abandon his mission). I really feel bad for that, as I actually started liking him a lot after DS9, much more than after TNG.

[@signaltome]

@@mayra3277 Yeah, Worf started to become a more fleshed out character at the end of the TNG run but it was on DS9 that he was allowed to shine. I were never that much a fant of the pure Klingon sentric stories but is Worf really a Klingon? OR is he the IDEAL Klingon, as Klingon wants to be portrayed but seldom are. There are some honorable klingons, Martok again springs to mind (as longas he isn't a changeling infiltrator anyway). ;-)

[@mayra3277]

@@signaltome It makes sense for him to act more like he's acting a Klingon because he basically grew up among humans and tried to embrace a culture that wasn't his own... Or perhaps Klingon society just went downhill pretty hard and Worf and Martok are the only good ones left

[@signaltome]

@@mayra3277 THen they have to shake the rest of them into line. ;-)

[@1monki]

The narrative should've shifted from Gul Dukat to Damar who has the more interesting arc at this point.

[@1monki]

@The Reverse And his is the important Cardassian narrative while Dukat's coming arc would've been better suited to Kai Winn.

[@1monki]

@The Reverse Then it would be a different show. I like the turn for Winn's character, it has meaning for her background. She finally gets to be "The Chosen One," with a dark twist. But for Dukat, it's just more mustache twirling.

[@JCSuperstar777]

I have to say that I like ‘Star Wars’ Dukat. The ‘genres’ of Star Wars and Star Trek blend temporarily - and it’s exciting. Dukat becomes a wraith at will.

[@1monki]

@@JCSuperstar777 If you're blending Star Wars and Star Trek, then shouldn't Dukat become a Sith Master?

[@venzybierxski7672]

Don't see that coming death of DAX

[@geraintthatcher3076]

Your patrons are saying Dukat killed Dax but wasnt it the pah wraith possessing him like it did with Jake last time 🤔🤓

[@Edax_Royeaux]

If Dukat is intentionally summoning demons, then Dukat is culpable for any ancient Bajoran laser beams that shoot from his eyes.

[@thepenskyfile]

Yeah, he opened the door.

[@albertannationalist]

So having seen your "everybody reflects on your departed character" melodrama moment with Georgeau on Discovery, do you maintain you'd prefer it here?

[@thepenskyfile]

i cannot remember what i thought

[@martintanz9098]

The problem I have with space battles is, in space where you don't have gravity and you have ships moving at faster than light speeds, why are they dog fighting WWII style? Not just a Star Trek problem. Star was is even worse about this stuff.

[@Johnsavage1]

Jadiza death was bullshit Dukat killed her because she was there not any purpose. Then there's the really obnoxious plot point of her trying for a baby which could have been established earlier in the season so not to be so emotionally manipulative, and finally this was the start of the prophets storyline which almost ruins the finale season.

[@JCSuperstar777]

Definitely not a 2.

[@MikeBernat]

Ezri hater here. More the fault of the writing . More on that next season.