Star Trek Strange New Worlds 2.04 "Among the Lotus Eaters" REVIEW

[@jessiegenderafterdark5287]

Quick Note: I call Captain Batel - Pellia - a couple times in the video. My bad! I had mixed up her name in my notes cause I was wondering where Pelia was in this episode and then kept writing her name in my notes incorrectly after that. Alas. Sorry for the mistake!

[@jayburdification]

Where was Pellia, anyway? Stealing artifacts?

[@MrFearDubh]

I thought you were calling her Pele and googled to see if that was Capt. Batel's first name. No site had that, so I figured you read it in a Star Trek novel I hadn't read that wasn't considered canon and that's why Memory Alpha didn't have that.

[@ScottLuvsRenFaires]

Yeah, I feel pretty much the same as you do, Jessie. Season 2 has had three strong episodes in a row and this one is weaker, but it is still good. I did think MBenga sawing wood was funny. Of course he would do a crappy job of it, he probably has never touched a saw in his life, but it was funnier still for me because the props dept. gave him the wrong type of saw. The script specifically said Rigel 7 was in its Bronze Age, but the saw was a panel saw which has to be made out of quite sophisticated steel. If it was made of bronze it would fold like an accordion after just a few strokes.

[@shaunkenneally7597]

Don't feel bad I always feel I should say "wynona"

[@sonicsean34]

Oh I just thought it must be Capy Batel’s forename.

[@romeovf]

Melissa Navia (Ortegas) lost her partner to leukemia shortly before filming of season 2 started. It took an enormous deal of willpower and support from friends and cast mates to even take her from leaving the couch, but she powered through because, well, SHE'S ERIKA ORTEGAS AND SHE FLIES THE SHIP! 💕

[@kadosho02]

Melissa is amazing, hearing about what she went through, and the support from the fam. It means everything. Her performance shines, every time she is on screen

[@LaraA55]

wow, I didn't know this. I was so impressed with her acting in this episode with a focus on her character

[@kadosho02]

@@LaraA55 she is incredible, I met her many years ago. Passionate, an amazing talent, and +energy

[@LaraA55]

@@kadosho02 How lovely to hear this. She does sound amazing.

[@kadosho02]

@@LaraA55 ☺️she totally is

[@HaroldElbowmanIV]

This episode had one of my favorite little Trek traditions: people having conversations with the ship's computer. Crusher did it once, Geordi does it regularly, along with half of Discovery's crew, and now Ortegas is in that number.

[@HaroldElbowmanIV]

@@jesse33cdn True! Except when she gets all sentient in later Discovery, of course. In fairness to this episode, the ship was pretty constrained in answers, and only responded when directly addressed. That said, it still makes me happy because I feel like the characters tend to find more interesting / creative solutions to their problems when they cooperate creatively with the computer this way.

[@AFringedGentian]

I really enjoyed this episode! I was moved by Ortegas’ story arc and her realization that what she does everyday as a routine is absolutely essential. That spoke to me as a mum. And I loved revisiting the Rigel VII story and resolving it. I felt uncomfortable with how violent Pike became but that reminded me of “The Enemy Within” and how Pike has that side of him as Kirk does. And I loved the thoughtful and slower pace and the relationship stuff.

[@JustYFriend]

All of this!! You expressed everything I was feeling about the episode. 😊

[@urbexsilvernois]

I think this episode was perfect, perfect for me, because I see it as an effective metaphor for my experience watching the love of my life lose her memories and sense of self as her lung cancer spread to her brain. After she died, like the field worker with adaptive wisdom, I considered drinking myself to death as a strategy to ease the unbearable pain of memory. At some point, like Ortega, I realized that other people in my life were depending on me to pilot myself and my relationships with them, through the debris field of loss toward a shared survival that endures the necessary grief to become the stronger self that my lost love would expect me to become.

[@Jo-un6es]

This is a classic TOS episode. Very original concept but the execution is uh... It's got that 60s tv feel. I love it.

[@tallonhunter3663]

Def had the uncanny valley with the modern sets and costuming.

[@pauldueffert2749]

Exact same reaction - plot and script-wise it had all the upsides and downsides of a random TOS episode. Since that is what I grew up with, I was happy to see it.

[@andrewstephen2359]

Melissa Naevea has spoken about how close she came to not coming back for S2 and how difficult filming was for her, that she would get overwhelmed and have to have a moment alone to compose herself. Possibly this is why she doesnt get too much to do in this episode.

[@purplepothos5794]

"I'm Jessie. I do the reviews." Affirmative "I am Jessie! I do the reviews" Affirmative "I AM JESSIE. I DO THE REVIEWS. AND GAY SHIT" Affirmative If only AI today were as supportive of us as the Enterprise computer is!

[@highlander723]

as a computer programmer I will tell you one thing in regards to AI. If you're talking about chat GTP You need to remember it was programmed using the internet As of 2021. You can really think of it as a representation of the internet at that time. So if you are saying that it doesn't support you what does that say about the internet. and keep in mind human society and human culture built the internet.

[@scattysafari7742]

To me it was very poignant when you remember Nichelle Nichols suffered from dementia at rhe end of her life. Anyone who has loved someone with this disease knows how hard it is to see them lose themselves.

[@williammitchell4417]

In a cruel comparison, it would be like Sarek having a disease that takes his logic from him. My mother passed away also.

[@ffreed]

I went through something similar with my grandmother who passed away last year. She was the most loving woman I’ve ever met, but times she would recognize her own family became fewer and further between.

[@williammitchell4417]

@@ffreed it's one of most horrible feelings in my life. I felt helpless even though I did everything right.

[@magister343]

My father passed away a year and 4 months ago. (Well, a year and 4 months ago today was his 83rd birthday. He died 4 days later, but had a bad fall 2 days before his birthday after which he wasn't really able to communicate.) He had been suffering dementia to some degrees for years but it became bad enough for him to realize it about a year earlier. For his last few months he kept forgetting who I was and would get really irritable and aggressive in his confusion. His hearing had been bad all my life, and he was very familiar with tinnitus.

[@FeannaFey]

@@williammitchell4417 ARE you referring to the TNG episode where Sarek has some kind of syndrome?

[@stephenramsey5585]

Jessie: "Why didn't they just warp away from the planet?" Cerritos Bridge Crew: "Discordant outraged shouting!"

[@jjmfrees]

Fun callback. Yeoman Colt in The Cage was brought on board to replace Zac after he was “killed” on Rigel VII.

[@nebulacoffee]

Just picturing Pelia and Pike together like "I'm not a witch, I'm your wife! But after what you've just said, I'm not even sure I want to be that anymore!!!" 🤣

[@katrose5179]

Batel, not Pelia.

[@nebulacoffee]

@@katrose5179 Yes, I know. That's why Jessie saying Pelia throughout the video made me chuckle.

[@MrFearDubh]

I could see Pelia telling Pike, "Have fun storming the castle!" like she (Carol Kane) and Billy Crystal said in The Princess Bride and waving.

[@wendyheatherwood]

​@MrFearDubh Aww.. Now I'm disappointed she wasn't in the episode just to say that line.

[@nebulacoffee]

@@MrFearDubh Would have been perfect with him breaking into the palace thing in this episode! 😄

[@Soguwe]

I love that your solution is "just leave and let the crew heal" cause that's literally what Odysseus does at the land of the lotus-eaters

[@simonashtear2739]

THANK YOU! I was wondering what this title must've been a reference to.

[@ERHershman1]

While I do wish we had gotten to learn more about Ortegas’s backstory, I nevertheless really enjoyed this one. One of the most TOS-ish episodes Star Trek has done in a long time. I really appreciate how Strange New Worlds has managed to maintain recurring character arcs while also serving up that classic “planet of the week” format. I am well and truly tired of season-spanning storylines that never end, and this show has found what I consider to be a happy medium between the old and the new styles of storytelling.

[@robert_bbiii]

It was not the best but enjoyable. I hope we get more Ortegaz as she is one of my favorites. I do like how both Pike and Spock both basically state the reason she didn't go down on the away mission is she is the best pilot they have. Also agree with the Prime Directive thing. Rigel 7 will never evolve naturally because the asteroid prevents that. So now they develop naturally and it hands off.

[@misterjoshua5720]

I think it was a missed opportunity to get some time in Ortegaz's quarters and we didn't get to see her rifle through some stuff to try and glean meaning from it. Baseball cards or trashy copies of Vulcan Love Slave in paperback, something that woulda given the audience a bit more insight into our favorite pilot with the crisp haircut.

[@anvalisok]

When Ortegas gets to deck 6 and everyone is aimlessly wandering around it looked a lot like the mall in Romero's Dawn of the Dead.

[@voltijuice8576]

Reminded me of THX1138, the bright corridors with confused-looking people wandering around

[@swordwhale1]

Pike blocking a phaser shot with a shiny bronze age tray being one of the sexiest things we've seen this week... YAAAAAAAAAAAAS! Also can we discuss the antique western saddle in his quarters? (19th century-ish). I love this captain. Ortegas is awesome. LLAP

[@NotSoCivilEngineer]

For me, Pike is his sexiest when he’s in the kitchen, cooking up a meal. His baseline charm levels are near his highest, and something about seeing a man cook makes my heart go padam, padam.

[@lauriewhite8153]

Pike's girlfriend's name is Batel, Pelia is the new Chief Engineer

[@DelTashlin]

Thank you. I really thought that I was going crazy.

[@hankamania]

And Una's lawyer was Neera, not Naroo.

[@saladfingersasmrparty9768]

@@hankamaniaAnd the stranded officer-turned-king is Zac, not Kyle

[@ffreed]

Wow, imagine the series of events that would lead to a Pike/Pelia pairing.

[@ianmacfarlaine]

Jessie constantly gets character names wrong in videos - it's just lazy and lacks effort, and TBH this one with such fundamental character - it is tuning me out. Perhaps another reviewer should be getting the advance copies of episodes.

[@elim_inator]

I enjoyed this episode. I think it treats the question of how we form our identities in a really cool and interesting way. I liked the way that history was told through a totem, while personal things like names, loved ones and home were written onto a person themself. Though I really wonder how children grow up in this world. How do they learn to talk, and read? Those things take time and repetition, but neither are useful if you forget everything every night. And I like the way the episode was shot, when we see the characters go into this tinnitus and it's like only a few seconds went by, but everything around them has changed.

[@IndySkyFan]

For me, it was a nostalgia trip to being younger and watching TOS when it was just "Star Trek" because there was no other version of Star Trek. But I also liked the "new" stuff like Ortegas stepping up and being a major character. A supporting character would never get to do that in TOS. I also liked the touch that part of the reason Pike really took Ortegas off the landing party (and YES! They call it the landing party, not the Away team) was that he wanted only people who were highly skilled in combat without having a phaser, so he was protecting her.

[@Hokius]

Great review as always! I did have a few additional thoughts (shocking I know) The whole Prime Directive bit bugged me, too, and for the same reason. What could be more natural than an asteroid floating around in space and accidentally crashing into a planet? I was so, SO sad for Ortegas in this episode. Not only did she not get to go on the away team but she asks, "Who is going to fly the shuttle?" because her thing, so far as she's allowed to have anything right now, is that she's the best pilot. And Pike goes, "Oh, I've got it. I always was perfectly capable of it." which sort of implies that she wasn't ever actually needed. Then, as she's on the ship, Una tells her to help Uhura to sickbay and she's like, "But the piloting of the ship? The whole reason I couldn't go on the away mission?" and Una goes, "Oh, I can handle it." And, I might be wrong, but it felt like they both were kind of condescending to her about it, too. "Oh, I used to be a test pilot!" and "I flew this ship before you did!" Ultimately, I suppose she gets a moment because she's the only one for whom flying is such a core part of her identity that she can do it even when she can't remember who she is but it's not like she does that in contrast to anyone else's inability. For example, had Una been shown to be incapable of it, it would have meant more, I think. Finally, I thought it was kind of weird how violent Pike got and then he admits that forgetting who he was made him "more himself" but then chose to interpret his excessive (and pointless) violence as being about how much he cares about his crew and not about some unknown violent tendencies in himself. I don't really WANT Pike to battle some inner demons about his capability for violence but, generally speaking, naming excessive violence as evidence of love isn't great.

[@RickReasonnz]

At first i thought we were getting an Apocalypse Now, but we ended up getting a Memento. I loved it, great, fun space adventure, with a sharing of the focus between Pike and Ortegas. The concept of the workers forgetting their non-fundamental memories would make for the perfect workers, that it almost felt a bit Black Mirror. Can't get sick of being a serf if you can't be remember being sick of being a serf!

[@captainyossarian388]

The ship's computer becomes a supporting character in this episode! I loved that. Also like the tip of the hat to TNG's pilot ep with the "Follow the lighted path."

[@heatherfyffe3618]

This was definitely my favourite episode of the series so far. Of course I will have a few quibbles, but I loved it for all the reasons others have expressed. And to me Ortegas' chant of confidence was just like "My name is Inigo Montoya, prepare to die!!!" And I don't mean it was derivative, I mean it expressed the same awesomeness.

[@mintysquidz]

I loved this episode a lot and it might be one of my favorites so far this season. The themes of identity, memory, and everything with Ortegas' self-affirmation of being the one who flies the ship was so great! Rigel VII is such an interesting planet and I'm glad that they showed it here and really showed how wild it was. Made my D&D brain fire on all cylinders. But ultimately, I'm so glad that Ortegas got to shine in this episode. She's been a favorite of mine since season 1 and I've been waiting for her to have her own character development. The only thing I didn't really care too much about was King Zach. All of his stuff could have been altered but it was fine in the end. And I think that the reason they didn't warp away was due to the radiation causing all of them to forget their memories at different times. So it could have been that when one of them was about to suggest it, they lost time and forgot it. That's what I saw it as at least. Great review as always Jessie! Your reviews are one of the main inspirations for me to review shows as well, specifically Star Trek. So thank you for just being you and making these!

[@lesbiandrea]

Can’t agree that Ortegas shared spotlight with Pike, she was barely in the episode and that’s our only real complaint because we felt cheated after the first scene setting her up this week.

[@andromidius]

I'm guessing she'll get a bigger role in a future episode though, based on the previews. This was a bit of a bait and switch.

[@thebitterfig9903]

I feel like she had a good B-plot, but I’m still hungry for an Ortegas A-plot eventually.

[@ScottLuvsRenFaires]

Oh, I 'd bet several hundred quatloos that Ortegas will be on an away mission soon. And she will probably solve a big problem by using a hat.😛

[@noahstackhouse9818]

I agree a few minutes edited out would have helped the episodes pace. I also would have liked it if they had a flashback to the original mission and showed what happened then. The relationship between Pike and Batel is very well done, I'm curious about how Pikes knowledge of his accident will affect things in the long term and if Captain Batel will find out about it. Ortega's subplot was interesting, I look forward to seeing her on an away mission in a future episode.

[@hawkiowan]

I thought that the plodding nature of the episode actually served the plot, giving us that same uneasy sense of slowly losing it, the creeping desperation and frustration, such a contrast to something like an incoming asteroid that you could just blast with a phaser.

[@donnicholas7552]

I loved this episode! It was classic TOS for me. 🖖I liked the tie-in with TOS series too!

[@LaraA55]

I so agree

[@antikonfluenzia260]

Loved how the "palace" is just the redecorated inside of a gothic church and part of the decor is a big print of a mosaic of alexander the great!

[@thebitterfig9903]

I love that SNW does a lot of TOS or TNG style episodes. “Something is wrong with the crew and only one person can fix it” is such a classic premise. Toss in a fascinating alien culture, with a modern cast and sensibilities, and we’re good to go. Huge bonus points for the series tending to have season-long themes rather than season-long plots. A lot of S1 seemed to be about the idea of fate and destiny and how we deal with the inevitable. This season has themes of identity through hardship, and the importance of even difficult histories.

[@Blazingstoke]

Interesting. I came away feeling the episode was too _short,_ that far too much was told-not-shown or glossed over completely. If anything, the episode needed at least a good 10-15 more minutes to cover the story properly. That said, I _really_ appreciated that they went back to that Rigel VII mission that the _Enterprise_ crew were still recovering from at the start of "The Cage". And having the yeoman - the _one confirmed death_ that we learn about - be the one who, in fact, survived was a brilliant twist.

[@gemmamoon5998]

The one thing that bothered me most about this episode is that we don’t actually see how the away team returns to the ship, and it really robbed Ortegas of that heroic moment. We know she navigated the ship through the debris, but how does she know to fly it away from the planet? She wouldn’t have remembered that. Spock essentially says “We got further away and then we made a shield against the radiation and got everyone back” but I would have liked a glimpse of that process. How long were they away from Rigel VII before they beamed the away team up? Was La’an brought to the palace for M’Benga to heal or was the team beamed up almost immediately after Pike defeated Zack? Did the crew make the shield before getting the away team back or did Pike tell them what metal shields them from radiation? I think the five minutes Jessie suggested they cut could have been replaced with the crew recouping and planning the shield, with a brief cut to Pike putting on a soldier’s helmet and gathering the away team.

[@peachgo3]

0:49 I had the same thought!! Very TOS, just like last week (had strong "City on the Edge of Forever" vibes for me and I'm Still Not Okay) One thing I will say though I'm glad that you pointed out that weird overtone of Ortegas staying in her lane or something. I know this isn't how the episode framed it or wanted it to be understood but man, I had hoped to see her on an away mission, she was so pumped about it! Maybe in another episode later this season!

[@katiecat9353]

The fact that the aliens looked identical to humans was also very original series

[@shaunkenneally7597]

Just loved how they are finding clever ways to showcase different characters. I am Shaun , and I loved Erica getting spotlighted

[@alejandrocuneo7081]

first time viewing your reviews, I liked it, you are not afraid to go deeper than is currently advisable in your analysis and you can tell that you love trek more than you love yourself. Live long and prosper

[@dragoninthewest1]

9:05 current archaeological evidence shows that there was no mass enslavement of Jews by the Egyptians in ancient times and The Exodus is mostly a semi-mythical tale. In fact the most Egyptian monuments were built by Egyptian craftsmen. There were group of Canaanites who became a ruling caste during the interregnum between the Old and Middle Kingdoms periods, who were eventually pushed out by native pharaohs. It is possible Exodus is a retelling of this event.

[@magister343]

The Hyksos shepherd kings would have been expelled before this. The most plausible identifications of the Hebrews would be the ʿApiru mercenaries, some of whom may have worked for the Hyksos and stayed behind after they left.

[@backtoearth1983]

You can gauge how good an SNW episode is by how angry Robert Burnett gets about it. Ive not seen it yet, but he is pretty mad so I assume it was pretty entertaining.

[@barkasz6066]

He is still sulking that much huh?

[@backtoearth1983]

@barkasz6066 Worse by the week. Its tilting more to being a personal quest against Akiva.

[@jenergomes]

Hi, Jessie - who does the reviews!! I'm late in more than one week, so I'll point out just one or two things. First, thank you for bringing data and images from the TOS pilot! It's the TOS episode I most rewatched (ahm... 2 times + the aired double episode?), but I wouldn't remember the references. Second, I liked the "Kalarian-guru" character and his lines. They made sense to me, and I felt he was talking to the audience about that perspective of not knowing and, so, not suffering (which, for good or bad, makes a point), and, in the end, he had a reconciliation with his forgotten past, a mix of pain and adorable memories. They could explore more the lesson that the character gave us. Great thoughts about the different intentions and approaches of using the Prime Directive in Star Trek!! I'll pay attention when [re]watching the episodes, thank you for the sensible perspective!

[@posindustries]

"Can't we just warp past the debris?" *everyone on the bridge starts yelling angrily* "It was merely a suggestion!"

[@sheepwshotguns42]

i loved this episode. i found the concept terrifying. anything that has to do with manipulating a persons mind shakes me with existential terror. i would have liked to see more variety in how people handle the situation though.

[@MonCappy]

I don't agree with you at all about the episode running long. It felt like a perfect girthy length. I liked the character bits with Captain Pike and Batel. They make such a cute couple and thet have such good chemistry together. Even if Strange New Worlds is a massive violation of canon by having a woman as a captain. :P This game had a good bit of character growth, some great action and a really compelling story. I really like the mythology that was built on Rigel VII. EDITED TO ADD There is no archeological evidence that the ancient Israelites were ever enslaved by the Egyptians. It was an origin story created out of whole cloth. Moreover, the Egyptian rulers employed contract labor to build many of their monuments.

[@thomaskalinowski8851]

7:23 "We have a Starfleet officer becoming a despot on these planets." Captain Tracy in "The Omega Glory", Professor Gill in "Patterns of Force", Captain Merrick (sort of) in "Bread and Circuses."

[@andyh7152]

@jessie this was very much a drug addiction related episode as well as identity. iirc Lotus Eaters is a reference to addiction to avoid the pain of living. A topic brought up several times during the episode. A way out of addiction is to claim your identity and acknowledge what has happen. I know it's a topic that bring up would probably get your review remonetized but it is an important point. Keep them coming girl!

[@williammitchell4417]

Very much similar from a TNG episode of which Merritt Buttrick was in.

[@ms-abominable]

i love watching your star trek episode reviews, they're so fun XD

[@phxjw]

This episode kinda reminded me of Kirk's speech about "needing his pain" when approached by Sybok. Our memories and experiences make us who we are.

[@michaelseitz8938]

The second episode thus far that felt like the good old times (an "ordinary" Star Trek episode) 😊 Always curious how high ranking officers think it is necessary to hide something affecting them, after _aaaaall_ the weird stuff they have seen and heard of. But I liked the creepy way the ruling class suppressed everyone else by not protecting them from the radiation. I also liked that we got to know several characters better.

[@abbytrilights4692]

You're a Queen You made the world a better place

[@Lycandros]

Memory loss episodes area a unique form of horror for me. Funnily enough I listened to a horror podcast where they talked about the horror in Star Trek in between last weeks and this weeks episode.

[@DarthTingleBinks]

The example you bring up about the Egyptians and the Jews is an interesting one, as it's only ever mentioned in a book of fairytales and myths. In fact, there is no evidence Jews were ever IN Egypt, let alone that they were enslaved by the Egyptians. Egypt is also a very odd place Biblically speaking, as, not only were the Jews most likely never in Egypt, but the Egyptians proserpered and thrived during the supposed time of the great flood. Egypt's existence honestly just disproves and debunks a number of Biblical myths and stories. Edit: Is any of that relevant to the episode? No. But I thought I'd say something anyway.

[@FeannaFey]

The: "We need our pain" theme does always bring me back to the movie with Sybock..... :D

[@GandalfsBeard1]

You captured my thoughts and feelings about this episode perfectly! 💯... It was a lot of fun, but ironically,..... slightly forgettable?😅 ... In regards to the Prime Directive, well, you've got another💯from me on that score too!

[@arianebarnes]

Agreed. Probably the weakest ep of season 2, but it has been a damn good season so far. The weakness of the episode is that the resolution of the plot felt a little too "convenient" and Jessie more or less said the same thing. Acting was great, writing was great, the themes of the episode about identity felt very Trek.

[@nathanielmonroe3057]

What does it say about me that when you played the clip of the pilot re-enacting Rigel VII I immediately went to find the full clip because you cut it off right before Vina made the truly perplexing face? Had not watched The Cage/The Menagerie in years but I remembered that. I really resonated with the length critique. The bits on the ship did seem really redundant, though when they forgot how to read the pads I thought it got really good.

[@JustYFriend]

I really liked this episode. Not only because we get Pike back (yay!), but because the thought of losing one's memories and identity is more terrifying than the freaking gorn. It was an agonizing ride, and they delivered it well for the most part. I found the episode last week dragged a lot more than this one, btw. I guess we don't agree in the ranking. 😉

[@giano427]

The planet in this episode looks like they reused the assets from the Paramount plus commercials, minus the snow. 😂

[@etherealtb6021]

Or the commercial used this set. 🤣🤣🤣

[@justinegan5021]

This is my fave episode of the season so far.

[@JustYFriend]

Mine too. 😊

[@fourcatsandagarden]

M'Benga cutting wood was just the most OG TOS moment.

[@KassMcCormack]

My only issue with this episode was the sound they used for the tinnitus effect. It wound up triggering my own tinnitus which almost made me go non-verbal and my ears are still ringing to the point where I can't hear too well (for reference, I watched it at midnight when it dropped and it's not basically 3:30 in the afternoon). I wish there would've been some kind of warning before the episode so I could've gotten my earbuds in before the episode started instead of after the sound had already happened and caused an issue.

[@RickReasonnz]

Oh, yeah, it was LOUD, especially La'an's first one. Made me turn down the volume a bit.

[@KassMcCormack]

@@RickReasonnz My ears are still ringing over 24 hours later. Someone should really say something and maybe they'll go back and re-edit it to be a bit more manageable. Because as it stand this is the only episode I will never rewatch just because I physically can't but I would've loved to have been able to because it was a really enjoyable episode otherwise.

[@RickReasonnz]

@@KassMcCormack If they wanted to give us a reason to emphasize with what the characters were feeling with the tinnitus symptoms, they succeeded.... all too much! Not sure if I just got used to it, but later occurrences in the episode seems a lot more diminished than those first initial blasts. At least that's a positive with streaming, that published content can actually be edited for later viewings.

[@jojobookish9529]

I think its very interesting how Nurse Chapel laid out how everyone was affected (I can bandage a wound, but no complex surgery), and Luke on the planet says that the deepest things don't leave...and Ortegas can STILL FLY THE SHIP. She knows those controls so deeply, she can thread the freaking needle with no memory.

[@BustedHeart]

2:18 I actually did have that moment where it was doing something interesting and got me excited. It was Spock in one scene saying "your feelings are not facts." Basically being the Ben Shapiro of this episode. And then when Ortegas returns he actually takes her feelings of affirmation as a fact that he had to trust or else there wouldn't be any one to get them out. I love turning "facts don't care about your feelings" on its head and showing just how much our reality is defined by deeper, instinctual motivations. I thought it really pulled the thread on it very well and carefully. It was fascinating and an excellent thought experiment of an episode. It is def the most queer and trans discourse coded episode in my opinion, but not through character but the actual episode logic. It feels like one of those episodes that could very easily pull more allyship out of those who might be fence sitting. Like it opens some ways to really empathize with one intuiting their own queerness or gender.

[@jennifermeiners7085]

I really liked this episode! It kept giving me TOS Cloud Minders vibes though! I was anticipating more of a message about the labors vs. castle people. I was preparing myself for a big speech at the end and was slightly disappointed on that note, but none the less a very good episode. I know what retro episode I'm watching tonight!

[@lcflngn]

Rly liked this take on The Cage for Pike. Love that it’s about “lotus eaters” yet here there’s literally no relaxation or fun involved in being one. More the true reality of lotus eaters… it can be terrible to be disconnected from memories, family, love. Even if some memories are very bad. Loved Jessie your political & interpersonal take on this ep. I was so distracted/amazed/scared by its portrayal of dementia I def missed that. For me, this was one of the best-written SNW eps so far. (Rly hated the writing last ep, just me apparently.) Absolutely terrifying. Far scarier than Gorn. Have had plenty of experiences with people with memory loss, including my husband had a day-long episode of “transient global amnesia” (omg look it up if you’re curious & unafraid) some years back that completely freaked me the heck out. Now the closer we get to “elderly” the more scared I am of this sort of thing. I feel as though as a society we do get to talk about the horrible ordeal of losing oneself. It’s not taboo, & it happens all the time, yet still obvs hidden to the vast majority going blithely about their day. But we’re pretty much all going to deal with it one way or another. Thank you Star Trek for this very OS-style exploration of our societal traumas.

[@andrewlonghofer]

I would have liked to see the Ortegas/Spock tension deliver more of a punch thematically and for character development. It’s a perfect opportunity for a Spock/Bones style “hey so my embodied emotions were the only way I knew what to do, emotions rule huh?” moment.

[@Feralhyena]

All I wanna say is that I feel like they were too quick to resolve the conflict between Pike and Batel. Other than that, I feel the tension in the episode was perfect for me.

[@Pixelkip]

i drank a little too much wine last night and watched this one, and man it was a trip xD great episode as always !

[@cantantenoel]

I enjoyed this episode a lot. My only disappointment with it was what you mentioned at 13:29 - we STILL haven't really learned anything new about Ortegas. I really like her and I keep hoping they'll give us more.

[@emr263]

Interesting that you felt the episode was a bit too long. That´s exactly how I felt last week.

[@worland102688]

I think one of the little things that annoyed me a bit in this episode is when we start seeing symptoms on the ship. Spock hands out tablets with each person's personal records on them so they can remember who they are when things go bad. Are these tablets read only? Why on earth wouldn't we add a note in big font. "WE ARE MISSING OUR AWAY PARTY" or some such. Like, it just makes sense! That being said, then we wouldn't get certain neat scenes but like, how did we forget we can make notes of important info X)

[@OpinionsNoOneCaresAbout]

Yeah, loved that drag. "We need to get La'An to the palace or she might die!" "Ok, but let's stop and have an "important" conversation first."

[@tecweston]

I am Erica Ortegas. I👏 fly👏 the ship!👏

[@Ayelet_BringThemHome]

Thank you for your review! I thought the name Rigel VII sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it! I loved this episode, though I didn't like the high pitched noises. The did pull me into what the cew felt, but they made my ears ring and made me fill disoriented. I'm thankful I saw Sara's (the fat culture critic - for anyone who doesn't know her. I recommend checking her youtube channel) tweet about these noises, so I was warned in time. The noises still bother me. I wish we could see more of Ortegas here (and in general) more as well! I also thought the crew should have warped away.

[@bettywing52]

I think this is the point where I am really enjoying being played by Kurtzman, Goldman & Co. Its taken since the beginning of Discovery and over ten seasons of shows, but I have finally given up and accepted that these guys know what they're doing. And better than I would, no matter what criticisms are rattling in my head over Picard. This is a great place for Star Trek.

[@dgrahamdixon]

There's an interesting conceptual tension in the Vulcan view of emotions that the writers, probably inadvertently, brought out in this episode. In the scene with Ortegas and Spock, Ortegas says she *feels* like she knows how to fly the ship. Spock responds that feelings aren't to be trusted. However, by "feeling," Ortegas doesn't mean emotions. Instead, they mean something like intuition. The episode establishes that those affected by the asteroid's radiation lose the ability to recall their knowledge of facts or, in philosophy's terms, propositional knowledge (ex., knowing that "The Eiffel Tower is in France"). However, they don't lose the ability to recall procedural knowledge (ex., knowing how to drive a car). In the latter type of knowledge and memory, you don't primarily act or remember in a linguistic form. A lot of our knowledge consists in a non-explicit sense or feeling about something. Obviously, Vulcans would know this. They aren't so different from humans that we'd expect them not to experience self-awareness, knowledge, memory, and so on in a sensual mode. So, it doesn't make sense for Vulcans to categorically oppose "trusting your (mental) intuition." There's no way the Vulcan Science Directorate, for instance, believes that all memory is explicit and linguistic and descriptive. So, I thought this was a funny tension that reveals our overly simplistic conceptualization of the Vulcans.

[@claudiadarling9441]

This episode was fun. I like the idea of whether or not remembering is worth the pain. My response to the question would be, I want the pain.

[@Thekidfromcalifornia2.0]

This was a great side quest episode. Enjoyable but I agree 💯 with you.

[@simonashtear2739]

Middle of the night, had to get this out before I forgot, random thought, sorry if it's a bit jumbled. I think this was MORE of an Ortegas episode than we realize. What did Pike say when he was confronting Zach? Something like, "it doesn't make you forget, it reveals." (So does alcohol, so does power, but I think this is more of a statement about nature over nurture.) Now, The Orville did a great episode about how long should you stick to your duty when no rescue is coming, but I wanted to talk more about Ortegas. She LOVES what she does, clearly. At least, she loves flying. (We still need to see that shuttlecraft scene in the marketing!) Why? When she lost her memory, everyone was a little disoriented. She probably wasn't the only one who found their way to their quarters and curled up for a good cry. She was scared, she was terrified. She SHOULD be! Space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence! And that fear was something she overcame. Ortegas is courageous. Courage isn't a lack of fear, it's being scared as heck, but doing the darn thing, anyway! Ortegas is very easily scared, but also doesn't let it show, and is able to confront and overcome it. If this Star Trek crew ever meets the Green Lantern corps, which, for some reason, happens a lot, she's definitely shown that she has the power to overcome great fear. She's that living embodiment of, 'doing one thing every day that scares you.' Maybe we'll learn more in that later episode where she's piloting a shuttlecraft and scaring the heck out of Captain Pike. What actually made her afraid? Flying? Or sitting still? Is she afraid of NOT moving? Is she afraid of staying in one place? Was she ever trapped, somewhere? Did she join Starfleet b/c she was afraid of remaining in some small town, never going anywhere? Can we get another look at that personnel file? On another note, M'Benga is a dangerous man. We know this. "That's a silly way to saw wood." He's a wartime doctor, he knows how to use a saw. Wartime doctors were sometimes called, "Sawbones." He was faking not knowing how to saw wood, he wasn't trying to, the whole time, probably waiting to spring his own trap. And YOU noticed it!

[@nathanielraefraughton5218]

I really enjoyed this one. Felt like a real classic episode. Nice to see more Ortegas, still hope there’s more to come and she doesn’t have to share the spotlight so much. I want to know more besides she’s a pilot.

[@johnsieverssr8288]

Thanks Jessie.

[@MichaelPhillipsatGreyOwlStudio]

I loved this episode. It might be my favorite so far. I had completely the opposite reaction as far as time. It just flew by for me.

[@JustYFriend]

Me too!! ❤

[@emaarredondo-librarian]

Lotus-eaters, aka lotophages: "In the Odyssey specifically, the Lotus Eaters are mysterious people who live on a small island. They regularly consume lotus plants that cause them to live in a perpetual state of bliss. Their lifestyle causes them to lose all sense of urgency. Odysseus and his men spend some time on the island of the Lotus Eaters."

[@smallthoughts513]

I think Star Trek often gets evolution wrong and the language "natural" is suspect, but this world is sick and it is right to heal it. Not the theme of this essay but pike says something tangential to the fundamental question posed by the dilemma remove or leave the lotus rock. While it is something to discover, is there a good simple or is all conditional on what a society says is "good?" This episode asks: Are reducible to the sum of our history or our training? What are we at bottom? The thing pike says: "to forget doesn't take away who you are but reveals it." This is in tension with character of Luke. He learns it is better to know the details because that tempers the pain. The doctor has a superficial version of this"I am a doctor, but I am here as a warrior. And he is good at fighting but revealed to be a healer." I am always tickled by SNW. Thanks for reviewing it.

[@michaeltorrey3603]

I was trying to remember where I heard of Rigel 7 from and I wasn’t even effected from radiation. Not that I know of anyway.

[@highlander723]

I do have to say something about this episode. I sometimes wonder if it would be better for us to forget who we are. some of us have experienced traumas so deep and so hurtful and have seen things that most people would go crazy after seeing.... I sometimes wish I could forget my past.

[@marceladan7638]

Plenty of people forget trauma, particularly from childhood, but burying it doesn't help to heal. Disclaimer: I know nothing about this subject matter really.

[@whoisthedoctor2]

When you were talking about how our traumas help to define us, I immediately thought "I need my pain!" 😀

[@benw9949]

I mostly liked this episode. I wish we would get an Ortegas episode. We got a little more of her in this one, but in the B plot. I wondered about the rebellion character Luke, since thet felt like an English / human name, and yet he's supposed to be a Rigellian, a Kevlar. (sp?) -- This was a solid ep, an unusual arc, and very different from the Cage scenes. Still, liked this a lot. Surprising that both the ship and the landing party made it through the incident, given the story problem. Neat stuff, and yes, very much like a TOS concept. I was thinking it was going to be an advanced society that had collapsed in on itself from some tech or natural catastrophe, so they got me with a different solution.

[@andycooper6085]

From the subtitles his name was 'Luc'

[@commenter4898]

Very good point at the end. Imagine a culture evolved in a multiple star system and Pike trying to destroy the "extra" suns because the celestial bodies having too much "unnatural" influence on their culture.

[@jackdavinci]

I felt like the episode 'drag' was intentional and necessary in order to provoke the feeling of being lost and amnesiac and the resultant ennui.

[@jamesrauch9103]

Still cannot get into my Paramount+ account!!!... So frustrating!! Haven't see the last 2 episodes.. ughh!!! Thanks for the review.. cannot wait to be able to watch one of my favorite shows...

[@kennashey]

I use my Paramount+ subscription through Amazon Prime account. Don't know if your sub will work that way (I went through AP in the first place)

[@hannahlarge5738]

it was an interesting take on the lotus eaters, but the lotus eater myth is about addiction, and it doesn't translate all that well to an external force -i'm not saying TNG"the game" was a better episode, just that it showed the pointless self indulgence of addiction better. the old dude asking them not to bring his memories back... that was spot on. they could have given m'benga a moment after the medical emergency was over to deal with the sudden reminder that he had, and lost, a child, and a moment to say he was better for remembering her. i did like the cute little wizard of oz moment when they're all going to the castle to get their memories (la'an wants home, pike wants love, m'benga wants to think clearly, and the old guy needs to be brave)

[@LaraA55]

@Jessie Gender After Dark Hello Jessie hunny, I absolutely loved this solid , well balanced, fun and interesting episode . It really felt like a TOS episode, in terms of the setting and how the story was set out, as a follow up to the Cage episode. I was even happy to hear some of the Cage episode music in this episode, when Pike was fighting with one of the warriors. Regarding the length of the episode, for me personally , it was just right. My heart was racing for Ortegas when she was in her quarters trying to figure out what to do whilst the asteroid rocks were hitting the Enterprise. I agree that Ortegas could have warped the ship away, but perhaps she could only focus on the one thing, due to her brain fog. I am liking how we are seeing more focus of other characters and their continuing story. I loved seeing more of Ortegas in this episode and you are correct, hopefully there will be an episode looking more into her background. I loved seeing Pike kicking ass during the shoot out and I hear you on his use of the plate. The meaning that stood out to me in this episode, personally mattered to me is how to live in the moment, and that wanting to forget painful memories, isn’t always necessarily a bad thing as in the end it makes one stronger, resilient, and who they are meant to be. Jessie, I like how you pick up on themes, and how identity related to hardship in this episode.

[@captain_star_trek]

i realy liked the episode it gave a nice vibe personaly didn t found it to long

[@rogerpaparazzo4725]

One thing that I liked about this episode, was that Spock did not have his plot armor on that says I am part Vulcan, so I am not affected by the situation.

[@The_Gnome_Chomskee]

So… I kinda binged all of SNW last week… it’s brought Star Trek back for me. It feels like all is right with Trek again.

[@samfisher6606]

I really enjoyed this episode. I love the idea of a society that has to live in the moment because they have no memory. And I love that they did an amnesia plot without it being the whole “bonk on the head that gives you amnesia and another bonk on the head that brings the memories back.” And I love the reference to Greek Mythology in the title. My only issue is Batel. Is she a ship captain or a JAG officer?

[@CaptainEnglehorn]

shes both. in Star Trek they have a long history of having captains be attorneys

[@kennashey]

Traditionally, JAG officers hold a military rank other than that of attorney, judge or advocate. JAG is an acronym for Judge, Advocate, General counsel (aka attorney).

[@generalilbis]

Maybe the USS Cayuga (Batel's ship) is a Starfleet vessel assigned to its JAG Corps...it's missions are diplomatic/legal ones involving Starfleet ships & officers/enlisted. The SCE gets its own ships... why not JAG?

[@jeffreykahrs6310]

I like that Pike isn't always right like with Batel.

[@CurtThompson]

There was an element of existential horror to this one that got to me a little. The Gorn aren't really scary, energy ghosts and trans-temporal space gods that adopt little girls aren't all that disturbing to me, but the fundamental loss of self? That scares me, as a person headed into the age bracket where dementia and such are things one needs to worry about. This story hits harder, in my opinion, if the viewer is of a certain age.

[@RickReasonnz]

Just as scary for someone who works a repetitive job. Imagine waking up to a message saying your job is to chop the wood. So you chop the wood, and never question it. "Every day is exactly the same" hits much harder when you don't remember every day.

[@drwaynebuck]

What was missing was a love interest for Pike on the planet. A woman attracted to Pike tempting him to not recover his memories and stay with her. Classic TOS move and would have filled out the episode to boot!

[@KariIzumi1]

Being an anime weeb who is way too much into _JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure,_ my first thought was that this this plot reminded me of the Jolyne and Miu Miu battle in Part 6 (I will not give more of that away but all three other Stone Ocean fans in Trek fandom will get it lol) With that out the way, it definitely felt like a classic TOS episode but modernized. People seem disappointed that it wasn’t GREAT, merely a good episode, but to that I say not every episode has to be an instant classic and it’s nice to have episodes like this that are about everyday weird shit with no other purpose than to exist. It’s a fine episode that just had the misfortune of coming after the best two episode run in all of modern Trek outside of Lower Decks. It’s no Inner Light, but it’s not Spock’s Brain either. Solid B tier episode for me, was nice to have Pike back.